How We Detect Flooding On Our 1600 Compartment Battleship
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- In this episode were talking about the flood alarms.
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The views and opinions expressed in this video are those of the content creator only and may not reflect the views and opinions of the Battleship New Jersey Museum & Memorial, the Home Port Alliance for the USS New Jersey, Inc., its staff, crew, or others. The research presented herein represents the most up-to-date scholarship available to us at the time of filming, but our understanding of the past is constantly evolving. This video is made for entertainment purposes only.
The only flood I hope any of you have experienced is one of tremendous pride for having pulled off this dry dock project.
Or when the glass of champagne is overflowing
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I fully second this statement!! You guys did a great job our BB62 looks beautiful!
Awww
I hope museum ships in desperate situations see this project and realize its not impossible to do the job the right way. Battleship New Jersey raised money, promoted themselves, built an audience, and stayed dedicated to this project for a LONG time. They are the textbook definition of how to take pride in these ships like the sailors that served on them. They are leagues ahead of almost all their peers. Ships in the mud like Yorktown, Alabama, and North Carolina are in a much worse structural state of repair than they'll ever let on. It's like watching a 5 year frame off car restoration versus a guy with spray paint and a free weekend
Can anyone else tell how stoked Ryan is to be back to being able to shoot videos INSIDE his battleship???
Now we know the sound of Ryan's nightmares.
Make into a ring tone. 🤣
@@frankchan4272 And have someone secretly put it on his phone as an alarm
@@frankchan4272 You are evil.
I'd love to see a morning opening routine and closing routine for a curator whenever y'all get back to normal
Or "A Day In The Life Of A Curator "
I was responsible for responding to the burglar alarm system in a 4-story building for years. The basement had water intrusion alarms. Not floats, as the building was erected in 1988. We had an issue one time. The irrigation system for the grounds around the building were being worked on, and digging a trench had cut into a conduit running just under the ceiling of the basement.
When the sprinklers went off Friday night the damaged conduit allowed water to flow into the basement. I came in and found "rain" falling from the ceiling, didn't even have to check under the floor tiles for water.
The building had 325k square feet floorspace covered by more than 600 alarm points. Something that large is impossible to keep stable, even in the 8 years I was there. I averaged 5 call-ins per week, counting weekends. I didn't mind too much, as I was paid 2 hours for each call in or time spent at site, which ever was greater.
I like things like the F/F Alarm Panel. Simple, understandable, gets to the point, fixable. Best, testable thanks to the fishing line.
Man. Can’t we get back to the days of simplicity and reliability? Instead of designed to fail engineering. 🙄
Simple, hard wired solution instead of an overly complicated computer system. Love it.
@@MadJustin7 As a computer systems developer/programmer/engineer - I couldn't agree more!
This channel makes me proud to be an American!
This channel makes me proud to be a New Jerseyan.
Amen
I'm a former controls engineer on the pump stations in NOLA, and many of them had float switches. The one thing I never saw on those was a simple way to test them, like you have with the fishing line. The USACE and NOLA S&WB required us to fill water to test them. Probably not a good idea in your case.
Very clever!
Interesting. Were your floats filled with air, or was the solid material they were made of naturally buoyant? If they were air-filled, I guess one of the benefits of a water-test would be that it would catch if the float itself ever developed a leak & would not be buoyant when called for in a real emergency. Though I guess a float randomly developing a leak would be very rare.
@@westtex3675, your comment looks more like a troll instead of actually asking a question that you give a shit about.
You're the one that mentioned "solid material they were made from", as though you already knew what you expected me to say.
When you actually have a question that your fat ass can leave the couch for, let me know.
@@westtex3675, floats aren't made from "solid material".
Dead giveaway.
They could be. There are plenty of solid materials that float (cork, styrofoam, other foams, etc). In fact, the buoys that mark the locations of submerged lobster traps often feature styrofoam.
But as to what type yours were, you would probably know better than me. There are undoubtedly hundreds of different types of floats available for industrial switches.
Additionally, even air-filled floats involve some sort of **solid** material (plastic or otherwise) that holds the volume of air.
@@westtex3675, it's not "could be".
Welcome back home BB62, can't wait for you to open to the public once again!
A very basic, yet very effective analog alarm system. Perfect!
Isn’t there another board connected to this system? When I visited BB-62 in 2016, I remember seeing a wooden board with two lamps, one for “ok” and the other for “fire/flood.” I believe the information sign next to it said it was the sole guardian of the ship while in mothballs. If the red light was on, it meant there was a fire or flood somewhere in the ship. I remember thinking at the time that there must’ve been more to it than that, since a solitary indicator for such a big ship isn’t very helpful. 8 years later I have my answer!
On a side note, that status board is shockingly primitive even for 1990. It looks like a homebrew fire alarm panel made from parts bought at Radio Shack. Much more sophisticated monitoring systems were commercially available at the time.
Sure, but this does exactly what they want and could be made with supplies around the yard and has probably stood the test of time better than a commercial unit from 1990. I’ve dealt with some commercial security stuff from back then and it wasn’t very resilient.
It was upgraded from incandescent lamps at some point, every light has what looks like a bunch of bondo above it.
ive helped wire up ships flooding alarms for decom tows, even more shocking would be in most cases the flooding sensor is a stick with two nails in it wired with old sp phone salt&pepper wire. nothing fancy, but it worked.
Keep it simple.
Its funny to think, ut the mothball period is just as important as a service period. It forms a good percentage of the ship's life, and those details are just as worth preservation as any other.
I'd bet more people have spent time on the ship while in mothballs or service/yard periods than ever served on her.
I had lots of fun over the years with alarms , float switches being particularly dodgy to get to as they are mainly in bilges . It's great you have a system put in for mothballing as it's independent . It's remarkable to only have one problem show up in thirty years . After all the hard work in dock it should be good for a long time yet .
back when i was an IC, i crawled in some really nasty places testing float switches for flooding alarms on ship.
Well, I imagine you can rule out a few of the 1600 compartments. I mean, nobody's going to open the Chart House and be met with a flood of seawater. Or at least they'll have figured out there's a problem before then.
generally the flooding concerns are spaces below the waterline.
Yeah and the bridge too. Nobody ever calls out damage control parties to the bridge for flooding.
You'd be surprised how often spaces above the waterline flood. Thats where plumbing is. Thats where the rain is.
I would trade out that water for another type of ballast for long term use, maybe even shift some items to help adjust the ship. Those old shells could be shifted to one side or the other or between turrets for a small amount.
I had the same thought, surely there's some metal or stone ballast that could be hauled around to empty compartments somewhere. It's not like New Jersey's loadout/weight is changing very frequently anymore, and just look what happened to old USS Texas. Water sat in the torpedo blister tanks and caused the ship severe damage over time.
@@legogenius1667 USS Texas I would argue the lean should be kept for historical reasons, not the water but the lean. Not just had it been that way from leaked blisters but twice in her military past. On shore bombardment duty Texas twice flooded one side to gain range with her big guns. Likewise Fort Drum (our former concrete battleship guarding the bay in Manila) On withdraw fired once so fast and hot she gained range from added pressure. They surrendered to the Japs as ordered but did their best to leave little behind besides the shell that is still there. It was a pill to remove the threat when we returned but at lest the two battleship turrets were disabled when the men left before. We boarded the deck filed it with a mix of explosives and fuel. There is even footage of the hatch in the air that The Fat Electrician uses and points out.
That can easily be wired into something like a RisingLink power failure sensor with a relay to send people texts and emails if it is ever triggered, as long as you can get some wifi signal into that "booth".
Or just run an ethernet through the same way the power is.
That was my first thought, piece of cake to get SMS alerts from that.
What do the other Iowa's use. Perhaps a follow-up video of a few other battleships. Texas? (I've heard them talk about alarms that used to go off all the time) Perhaps the one's on the East Coast (Massachusetts, Wisconsin, North Carolina) 🤔🤔
I would like to know the same thing. Especially for 55.
Good to know the flood alarms work. Thank you for the passion you have in making that great battleship available to future generations.
I'm loving the sharpie calligraphy
Very interesting, Ryan. Thanks for posting.
With all these informative videos Ryan's doing, sooner or later we'll have enough combined knowledge to operate her haha
It’s great that the flood detection system still works!
That is so cool! what a useful device.
Most likely, the alarm going off is from the metal rod float ball being upside down on the shaft. One way is normally open, the other is normally closed. Easy to do.
Obviously the ship came with lots of systems designed to help the her survive, how much of that is functional still? For example, if a large fire breaks out would any built-in damage control equipment still be usable to fight it, or would you have to rely on the fire department bringing hoses from the shore? Would any sensors still send data to CIC and would that still be a useful place to coordinate DC efforts?
Also a random question, I know that cars use much of the metal of the chassis to carry negative electrical current to save weight on wires, and with weight being a major concern for ship designers at the time, does the New Jersey also use the ship's metal to carry current at all?
As far as I know boats are ungrounded systems. They use 3 phase power to eliminate the need for a return wire.
If there is a short to the haul: it can be traced before a second short causes a problem.
Electric cars are kind of the same way. The traction battery floats. If there is a short to the frame: the car will refuse to charge.
@@jamesphillips2285 Interesting, thank you.
The problem with using the ships structure to carry a current is that there will always be spots that start to corrode and cause high resistance. It is also not a good idea to mix voltages with the grounding of the ship. In this case, the ship has a ground link to earthing on the dock. The best thing was what they did. The only difference I would do is setup a localized board for each section then have it repeat it back up to the main board. Also having it be DC for local but AC for the main run back up would be better. I do tend to over engineer redundancy to make trouble shooting easier.
I love it, it exemplifies the beauty of KISS. Also, would've loved to see a pic of the guts of the panels. It's either a nest or a babe. :))
"Sir, we're about to hit the dock!"
"No petty officer, we're simply taking on water."
Very Interesting
What was the purpose of the room containing the alarm panel while the ship was in service. I think Ryan said it was on the quarter deck and was for the enlisted men. Is this where they kept the basketballs😂?
Interesting panel. Looks hand made. It would be interesting to find out who built it. Someone with access to the parts and could lay it out, but maybe didn't have access to make nice labels. Perhaps it was even made by the ships' decom crew.
Nice little video, thanks for sharing. Was anything done to the berth while the ship was away? I know you mentioned the possibility of dredging.
the last video i think. were they restore the power cables and pipes. on the pier
I remember Ryan mentioning on an earlier video that there was an environmental restriction preventing them from dredging at this time. Something about spawning season, I think.
@@christianvalentin5344 I missed that, thanks for letting me know.
@@Aotearoawoodturner I remember seeing that but for whatever reason had it in my head that was ship work not dock. Makes way more sense that it would be on the dock. Thanks for the reminder.
@@fsj197811I think it might have been a little bit of both, ship work and shore work for the utilities/infrastructure upgrades.
Maybe it was covered in the past, but I’m curious about the collision warning system. Like how would that work and what type of collisions would the ship have that would go unnoticed without an alarm?
So wise , Thank you.
I'd submit that the fishing line method only tests the electrical connection. In the unlikely event the float were to have failed this test possibly wouldn't detect it.
Awesome.
Could mount a wireless network camera on the wall pointing at the panel. Then you can check it from anywhere.
so cool.
I gotta get one of these for my boat. I only know if somethings leaking when I got to dig the motor outta the mud next time im tryin to go fishing
Make-out booth!!
Cool info 😎 I learned something new today.
How much water does it take to trip the alarm? And what facilities are in place to deal with flooding if it happens?
I'm sure that they are probably set pretty low toward the bottom - just to give them the most advanced warning if/when they have an issue. Assuming they don't get torpedoed - any water ingress is almost certainly going to develop over a long-period of time (although - in the case of the condenser from 2017 - it is entirely possible that you can develop a long-term problem that goes unnoticed for a long-enough period to be a little bit of a scary thought). I would imagine that - in the event that it appears the water problem is somehow bad enough to threaten multiple compartments - Ryan will scramble down there and start securing all the water-tight doors around the affected area. Otherwise, I'm assuming they'll keep someone there to keep eyes on the situation until they can get a contractor (same sort of people they used to ballast and de-ballast for the dry-dock) to come out, drop some pumps in and run hoses up and over the side. Then you bring out another contractor to assess the problem and effect repairs. This is conjecture on my part, but it seems to be the logical action-plan.
@@Joseph55220they do have some pumps on board, it won't solve a Titanic Iceberg gash dumping water in at a rate of cubic yards per minute, but it will solve some small issues.
As for the fix, they do some repairs in house, Ryan and Maintenance would probably head down, take a few pictures, talk it out, and get contractors in as needed.
“We’re stationary, we don’t need a collision alarm”
I’m reminded of a story I read on some other RUclips video where someone mentioned that they once toured a US Navy ship docked somewhere in the Great Lakes when the collision alarm went off and everyone panicked that a freighter had drifted out of the channel or something
Only for it to be revealed that some idiot tourist had flipped the switch on the bridge “just because”
Collisions could still occur - either from other ships or debris coming downstream.
@@KnightRanger38 Precisely!
The float for the system sounds like the valve float in a toilet tank (best comparison I could make).
Made to mil spec, and switching an electrical switch instead of a mechanical valve, but yeah. Exactly.
Fun fact, you probably have a few of these in your house. HVAC units use them, ironically enough, as condensate flood detectors. If your condensation outflow line gets clogged (usually due to microbial growth), it will alarm the AC to shut down before it spills out.
Other uses include sump pumps, as a way to only start them up when there is water in the basin, and to shut down when all the water has been pumped.
@@phillyphakename1255 IIRC the likes of dishwashers and washing machines (at least front loaders) also use them, apparently one of the fastest fixes for a dishwasher that is refusing to fill/constantly trying to empty is to tip it forward so the back is a few inches off the ground then let it drop, as it's often the float valve/sensor sticking and the little shock is enough to free it. If that works you know it's the float valve without having to take the thing apart and if it doesn't you're no worse off as you were going to have to pull it out anyway.
That's one sound we all know Ryan doesn't use as a clock alarm, for sure.
First off, not all compartments need to have sensors. Water isn't going to unexpectedly appear in an internal compartment. The only compartments that need sensors are those on the exterior bottom of the ship. Theoretically, the deck could leak as well, but those would be readily obvious, and as rainwater isn't really a threat of rapidly sinking a ship, a flood alarm on the topside exterior bordering compartments don't really need alarms when the ship is often attended.
Yes, but by having them in all the compartments tells you the extent of the flooding. Also don't talk If you don't know things, you don't operate a battleship museum.
@@ashipcrafter2440 Do you run a museum ship? Otherwise shut up on that issue.
The water detection alarm system was installed by the Navy for water intrusion detection during mothball periods. A museum ship isn't likely to suffer catastrophic damage, leading to an immediate breech of several layers into the ship. And when a water intrusion is detected, it's a simple matter of sending staff, as there should always be 1 or 2 staff onboard trained to access any space on the ship, so manually identifying the source/extent of the leak shouldn't take more than 15-30 minutes.
After the USS Sullivan's sank, I realized how "business" mentality the museum ship staff are. It's a waterborne vessel, with watertight compartments built in, if the proper doors were closed. Rather than having staff onboard trained(to know what doors were between watertight zones, and also to identify it/when the leakage had spread far enough to render a zone beyond saving)to go down and close the watertight doors surrounding the water leak, the evacuated, and let the entire ship sink, as if it were an office building. In the USS Sullivans sinking, they simply abandoned ship, rather than spend any time attempting to identify and mitigate the damage.
@ravenbarsrepairs5594 You do know most water tight doors on museum ships aren't water tight anymore. Ryan did a video on the Sullivan's and water tight doors, I suggest you go watch those before you talk about stuff that you don't know anything about.
36 is lack of ground, perhaps induced voltage. maybe chaffed wires.
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I had no idea the ship was that asymmetric!
Id love to see what all you have to say about the collision alarm. Like is it a ship wide alarm that goes off when the bridge notices a collision is imminent, or are the sensors that go off in one area if too hard of a bump happens?
How did they know if flooding was happening in some bilge or unattended part of the ship before? Did someone have to check them all the time?
I think I’ve heard Ryan say that they do quarterly checks
in service, they do have alarms, but they also have watches to check spaces hourly in most cases. cold iron watch, and sounding and security are the main ones that would catch flooding.
@@leftyo9589 And in service they had a 'staff' of 2700 or so men.
Interesting again. What happens if one of the spaces that is filled with water for balancing gets a leak?
Thank you Ryan. Have you heard what is going to happen to the SS United States?
Ryan if the guys that patched up the yorktown were still around. how quick could they get your ship ready to sail ?????????
Anyone one else used to stand Sounding and Security watch? Just in case you doubted how replaceable we were lolol #RedShirtNavy
So as I understand, this flood alarm system wasnt in place when the ship was launched? How the flood alarm worked before this?
Switch #21 is in the off position in the video.
Closes a "contact" not a "contactor". The latter is different
How do you prepare the ship for hurricanes or other violent storms?
Is the panel connected to a system that would alert museum staff in the even you had flooding in the middle of the night and no one was aboard ship?
Im guessing Ryan gets an electric shock to let him know as well. Probably via his watch
Something I have been wondering could the navy just reactivate just the 16 inch guns and how hard would that be and how long would it take
i thought i saw more than just #36 LED on?
Did an a alarm go off when the faucet or pipe leaked and filled the.. Baber shop(?) compartment? A while ago you made a video about find a room very filled with water due to a leaking faucet or pipe.
In Amber Clad needed one of these…
Ok, i see that the "one" that is lit is brighter "yellow", but several look red while most look dark. Does that mean anything or is it just a fact of the glass?
Been meaning to ask, but if gold is an anti-corrosive metal, why don't we pant are ships with it? Had a second part, but forgot.
3000 an oz
Golden ships attract attack animals such as a bird or huge fish. So not really a bright idea.
@@bebo4807 oh. Well okay.
@@tomhenry897 doesn't need to be fully gold. Just throw some gold flecks in with the regular paint, but make sure it's enough to show up a solid gold color, and protect the ship.
@@bebo4807, and pirates….
Have you considered using machine guns to check watertight integrity?
What’s the reason for the list to port side? Was that an intentional design factor, or the result of the updated & modifications over the years?
To allow water from rain to drain.
Explained in another video.
Why is switch 21 in the down position?
If this was just for when in mothballs - then how did they chcek for flooding when in operation?
Only a guess, but probably physical inspection by numerous personel on a rotating schedule.
alarms in many spaces, also watch standers check most spaces hourly.
💡So the switch goes ON so that the alarm can go OFF?🔔
The content of the video. It makes me think the ship is leaking after it came back from dry dock.😢
That’s because you didn’t listen.
Whats scary with these videos is you learn.
When 2000 people learn something its almost possible to take her out to sea.
"Annunciator Panel" :)
What is takes a torpedo in the engine room. Then that stupid alarms going to really be annoying.
I have a question, is asbestos a hazard on museum ships?
Some museum ships do have it, we all inspect for it, generally local regulations will keep those spaces from being accessible to guests until it has been removed.
TIL My alarm clock is a collision alarm.
Why that ship must stay sealed ?? Why they cant go inside ?
Mothballed ships stay sealed to keep the water out.
59th, 21 June 2024
If you don't do anything and the collision alarm is going off, the ship will hit the bottom of the river 😅
But how did the collision alarm work? How'd it know that a collision might happen?
Set off manually on orders from the bridge, similar to General Quarters I imagine.
Push a button in the room, it alarms the whole switch. Probably someone realized there are alarm speakers wired throughout the ship, and an easily hackable switch. Wire up the new alarm to the old switch, and boom.
the original collision alarm worked through the 1MC announcing system and was operated by simple switches located in a few spaces.
@@leftyo9589 But how did the ship know that a collision might happen? Via sensors or was it just the lookout in the crow's nest being scared?
What’s up with his eyes? Back and forth
Maybe he has a condition
"We're stationary, if the collision alarm goes off it's not that we're going to hit anyone." Unless you have an Army nurse accidentally hit the button 🤣
Probably a really stupid question: Ryan said you have water in some tanks for ballast. Given that water is corrosive, which leads to a slow death for a ship, why not fill the tanks with oil? OK, oil is more expensive than water, but given you want to keep New Jersey around indefinitely, wouldn't it be better in the long run?
Not symmetrical... That could be the subject of a video.
Side fahrt :) strange languige logic timely "took place" . Not "happend in" most importantly not critik!!!!
Terrible ancient technology. I am security tech, its my professional area, so I do know how it does not work...
First all mechanical contact alarms must be "open to alarm", as contacts open for years usually close very unreliable.
Second it should be sealed contacts, magnet on float + gercon or (nowadays) solid state sensor
3rd it should be not a contact at all but just probe, isolated rod shorting by water itself. Sometimes it does not work due to extreme humidity and residue, but generally its much more reliable
4th wiring, panel, switches... of course you are a museum, but it is nightmare to upkeep such a stoneage system (yes, you have to check these floats manually). In modern world all this is digital and addressed, means no 100s of separate wires to every sensor needed, just several buses and devices report their number, send test messages, raise real alarms and so on. And, of course, all this goes to computer which reports it any available way - sound locally, signals to somewhere, report to internet and mobile.
@marth6271 nope. In modern world it costs cheap. Usual problem is with us, bloodsucking tradies, who charge for work they do not know so do it very slow, plus mark up twice for equipment.
At least gercon floats is cheap stuff used in any modern car for fluid level sensors - screenwasher, oil, coolant etc. $10.
Fit this sensor to the lid or top cover of a tank. Mounting is via 8mm hole with a plastic locking nut and O-ring supplied. Float movement is about 20mm - 20 kangaroos in local hobby electronics shop
Sounds like you should donate the materials and installation work for free.
@@garywagner2466 I am on the other side of planet
The simplicity of the system is very appealing. The fact that you can test the float switch manually every 3 months should alleviate a lot of the fears. I guess they could use a sealed Hall effect switch and keep the simplicity and test ability.
As a plumber that deals with flood alarms a lot that system looks pretty outdated. .i feel that some money should be invested to replace the system with something that’s more modern . Flood alarm sensors are not expensive and can be bought it bulk.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
If the ship has internet, why not a camera?
You'd have to watch all 40 cameras all the time, an alarm notifies us when to pay attention.
Cost of the camera and the power to run it. You'd also need a light source to see anything. You'd also have to run cables to all the cameras.
Personally, I want a 24 hour a day live feed from ballast tank #4.
Couldn't you put a camera in there to look at the board whether it goes off so you don't have to go all the way to the back quarter deck to look you could go straight to the right compartment to see the problem
@@BattleshipNewJersey No? One camera pointing at the box. 😂😂😂
@@chrisauton4😂😂😂 I'm so glad you said this.