As I see it, anti-seize provides at least the following benefits: (1) when correctly selected for the application, it supplies additional sacrificial-anode material; (2) it seals the threads to some extent, which prevents/slows entry of "electrolyte" into the threaded connection (no electrolyte means no electrochemical reaction can take place); (3) it minimizes galling of the threads; and (4) for a given torque spec, it promotes a more consistent/repeatable preload (stretch) of the fastener. Of course, it is common knowledge that torque specifications for "lubricated" and "clean and dry" threads are different. If choosing to use anti-seize on spark plugs, my recommendation is to USE IT SPARINGLY. Contaminating either the porcelain nose or the external insulator can lead to problems, such as misfire and possibly even damage to ignition components, so it is CRITICAL TO KEEP ONE'S HANDS CLEAN when installing the plugs. Also, when applying anti-seize to the threads, I would keep it off the first couple AND the last few threads (the latter precaution to prevent any lube from being transferred to the washer/seat of the plug and potentially affecting heat transfer/electrical contact in that area). By the way -- thank you, everyone, for pitching in! There are many great comments, detailing viewers' first-hand experiences. To me, this is really about people exchanging and discussing different viewpoints on this seemingly simple issue. I hope all of us can learn something. I know I have.
For years I have used antisieze on plugs and will continue to. When installing plugs with gaskets I turn the plug 1/2-3/4 turn after the gasket touches. Plugs without gaskets I torque to specs.
Great video and rationalization in favor of using anti-seize along with reducing applied torque. The Chilton repair manual for my 2009 Honda Accord specifies the light application of anti-seize to the spark plug threads upon installation. Interestingly, NGK happens to be the recommended OEM spark plug for that vehicle. Thanks for the video.
I'm 66, ase mechanic, worked on Subarus since 1973. My brother ( mechanical engineer) got to the bottom of seizing champion brand plugs. He said NGK had gold anodized antisieze and ROLLED THREADS, champion brand was CUT THREADS and no anodized antisieze . Subaru manual said NGK once removed was to be discarded, not reused. By 1975 I antisieze all plugs going into aluminum! NEVER HAD ONE COMEBACK, NEVER.
I've been using antiseize for over 30 years on plugs. From old air cooled vw's to newer vehicles and have not once had any issue. I'll keep using it. Don't care what the manufacturer states.
The only time I’ve had an issue was with special plugs that didn’t have an electrode that sticks out like normal. The center electrode was recessed and the strap was just a little tab off the side. With those if you put on to much anti seize it could cause a missfire if it got on the tip. Otherwise I’ve never had an issue unless someone basically dipped the whole plug in anti seize.
A great video and discussion on the topic, especially covering the additional torque that is generated when using a lubricant on the threads. However, ever since seeing a friends car have a coroded spark plug snap in two on removal (aluminium head) and requiring far too much effort from the mechanic to extract, I've always put never-sieze on my sparkplugs to minimise the corosion, create a better seal, and ensure they can be removed easier at a later date. 30+ years and this method is still working great for me and my family.
I agree, never broke a plug during installation in 22yrs on the job ( anyone who does isn't paying attention or moving too fast), but several on removal. Manufacturers can say what they want about their coatings, but I'm not gonna risk it
Excellent video!! I don't care what anyone says, all of my spark plugs will get anti seize with a 30% torque reduction!! I see time and time again these idiots in the comment section regurgitating not to use it, and I can only wonder if they are running a machine shop fixing stripped aluminum heads, haha!! And just like you demonstrate what happens to the factory coating after numerous heating and cooling cycles perfectly illustrates why to use anti seize!
Yes, the torque reduction is the key if the torque spec is for dry threads. Airplane engines require antisieze per the manual. The torque spec given is for a lubricated threads. It is very specific about leaving the first two threads that stick into the cylinder clean.
Exactly, in fact the Bosch spark plug manual species the % reduction in torque values when using anti-seize. I removed spark plugs in vehicles of friends and some were a real challenge taking time and being patient. In over 50 years, I have always used anti-seize on spark plugs as well as exhaust and high heat components.
On the other end of things, the only plugs I’ve ever had trouble with were ones I put anti-seize on. The stuff doesn’t handle the heat and gum/carbon up. I stopped using it over 25 years ago without issue.
Hey! I got a great idea! Don't be a lazy fool and leave your sparkplugs in your engine for a hundred thousand miles! And believe me when I tell you, that you don't want to reduce your torque on a Ford F-150 5.4 triton engine or it will launch a sparkplug right through the hood of your vehicle!😳
Great analysis! I AGREE! I am 71yrs old & have used antiseize for decades. Living in the rust belt, we MUST use it. NEVER had overtorqueing problems & agree, just drop torque specs if problems. Just apply a THIN coat. Two dissimilar metals? Dog gone right, antiseize it.
Most gasketed spark plugs tightening recommendations are either torque or finger tight with the gasket against the head then 1/2 to 5/8 turn. Taper seat is torque only. I use the 1/2 to 5/8 turn method and don't have any problem. I also think the antiseize promotes better heat transfer to the head. I use only aluminum antiseize because I work in the salt water environment and galvanic corrosion is very high. The aluminum antiseize is extremely good for stainless on stainless fasteners to prevent them from galling when assembled. Grease doesn't do the job. Just a very little bit of this stuff seems to get everywhere so I would caution getting any at all on the firing tip because it might short and foul the spark or any other electrical connection. I use the squeeze tube because it is easier to control the messiness and so little is needed for it to work.
Thanks for the comment! Yes, stainless-on-stainless galling can sure be a problem ... Also, it's not just the firing tip one needs to worry about -- it is important to keep anti-seize off the seat/washer and the back of the plug (external insulator) as well.
Honda's service manuals recommend anti-seize and provides a torque spec that assumes anti-seize is used. NGK, on the the other hand, specifies an angle not a torque. If either are respected then it won't be too tight. NGK's angle spec is impossible to overtighten regardless of use of antiseize. If someone used a dry torque spec and then added anti-seize then that would run into a problem (as NGK's bulletin described).
I have been using antiseize on spark plugs for a very long time. I also use a torque wrench. I have never had an issue with the threads in aluminum or cast iron heads. I have never broken a spark plug as depicted in the NGK picture but I have broken a small few by having the socket go on an angle when tightening so I have learned to keep the socket, extension and ratchet in a perpendicular position. My only precaution is to not lather up the threads and to keep it away from the electrodes, you do not want antiseize getting into a cylinder. IMHO, use it on all spark plugs and stop fretting over it. Those depicted NGK spark plugs must be made with recycled Chinese steel.
I would also add that not all "anti-seize" compounds are the same. I have seen AS compounds that are copper-based, but I have also seen nickel-based "high temperature" AS.
@@Zerk_Ziegler Next video: What type of anti-seize to use when and where! 😉 [oops, hadn’t watched the whole video yet] PS. I’m your 219th subscriber. You deserve more!
Thanks for this. That's answered a lingering spark plug knowledge gap very well. Also, Coming from long term marine experience, *copper-based anti-seize is really bad for alu connections.* Long version: When you 1st put it on, it seems ok. And if you take apart, clean, and reapply to that connection frequently, it's fine. (eg don't ignore it for 1 year at marine use). But we learned the hard way again and again: if you have a connection that you aren't servicing a lot, and it goes for 1 year, *the corrosion protection additives will get used up, and your mixed-metal anti-seize will turn into a corrosion promoter.* Certain anti-seize compounds are ok (zinc) as is *dielectric grease, as long as it isn't too hot* (don't use on turbo mounting studs). Dielectric was already designed to help prevent corrosion and isn't adding any mixed metals, so it works surprisingly well as a general purpose compound. 1 further note: I _wouldn't_ substitute Dielectric grease for anti-galling compound for SS on SS connections.
@thisisyourcaptainspeaking2259 Curious as to why copper antiseize is the most readily available and practically promoted. What is its best application?
@@radleybradford1356 Milk of magnesia was never promoted for use as antisieze either besides Pratt&Witney, as far as I know? I use my common knowledge when selecting materials compatibility. For instance, in low temp applications I use permatex 3B as an antisieze. I'll may try copper some day based on your recommendation but aluminum and copper never play well together in my experience.
Working in the Marine Industry for many years we always used Anti Seize compounds on Stainless Steel propeller shaft splines for Brass & Aluminum Props. Weather they were going in fresh or salt water it was a requirement.
I broke two sets of spark plugs after applying copper grease to the threads and torquing them down to NGK's specifications. I learned my lesson. The third set I installed without grease and using the turning angle as a guide.
Keep in mind most torque specs are intended for use on clean and lubrrcated items. Inconsistencies in thread condition such as corrosion, debris, lube presence or even type of lube can greatly affect clamping force provided at a given torque. At higher torque the variation in clamping force can get kind of crazy. This is why on critical items such as rod bolts, the preferred method is torque + an angle. Torge to a lesser value before the variation gets out of hand and then to an angle to achieve desired final torque. The rod bolts are measured of stretch to insure correct clamping force. Even this is not fool proof and there will be variation in acquired clamping force but it is the most consistent method I know of. Back to spark plugs. In the scheme of things torque related, they are not critical and do not require much torque to do what is required. The gasket type plugs must be tight enough to compress the gasket to form a good seal and not back out. The taper style must seal on the tapered area and not back out. This is mostly all that is required. Using anti sieze will help prevent damage to the threads in the engine head and will aid in sparkplug removal. As I see it there is no downside to using it except it is messy. It will prevent a 20 minute spark plug change becoming a two day head replacement. This is actually a common thing. Ask a Ford guy.
Agreed on all counts. For example, ARP recommends the use of their proprietary lubricant to repeatably achieve the required fastener preload and clamping force. Also, it's interesting that you mention the TORQUE+ ANGLE tightening specification. These types of critical fasteners are referred to as "torque-to-yield". The idea behind this approach is that the TORQUE specification preloads the fastener to just before the yield point on the elastic-deformation region of the stress-strain curve -- this part of the curve is a straight line that has a given slope. The ANGLE specification then preloads the fastener further beyond the yield point into the plastic-deformation region of the stress-strain curve. Since the plastic-deformation portion of the curve is more or less HORIZONTAL, the preload of the fastener and the associated clamping force are theoretically much more predictable.
Been changing plugs in aluminum heads using anti seize since 1977ish. It's pretty easy to "feel" the crush washer deform to the head and then begin to tighten. That's all you need. No torque wrench needed. Just did my Tacoma a few days ago. Easy peezy lemon squeezy.
I use zinc anti seize in every spark plug installation. Most plugs will bottom out when the crush washer is crushed. Torquing then stops.You will feel this point of resistance and stop. Unless you have gorilla hands there will be no problem. Lubricant and torquing really plays no role once the washer is crushed to seal .Makes it a lot easier to remove later on.
I even use the factory specified Castrol anti-seize (looks like Permatex 133H - silver) on the factory aluminum lug nuts on my Porsche 911 (993 series). They get torqued to 130 Nm or 96 lbf.ft. as called for in the factory manual.
@@Conservator. Nothing like simplicity, besides I grew up with real VW Beetles and of course they were air cooled just like my Porsche 993. The Centerlock nut on my Porsche 991.1 GTS also takes an anti-seize paste as per Porsche and it gets torqued to 443 lbf.ft. then backed off and re-torqued to the same 443 lbf.ft.
I just removed some original BMW ( Beru) from a bmw e46. They hadn’t ever been out in 21 years. The car was well below the 90k miles for change so they were never changed during services. They came straight out. So the plating certainly worked
ALL of these comments are spectacular! A ton of info to answer any question one might have on the subject. The reward of an excellent presentation, hats off to you Sir!
Thank you! As I mentioned before in response to one of the comments, I made the video mostly because I was hoping to receive input on the subject from people with first-hand experience. Often I find that the comments deliver more value than the RUclips videos themselves.
Fantastic information, especially if plugs are removed for inspection then reinstalled. I never use a torque wrench to reinstall plugs. They have a crush washer and and bring them up snug tight and don't moose them in.
I will make this real clear for people abusing this subject, anti seize compound for spark plug was mainly designed for air cooled engines. All other engines use some oil.
When I apply anti-seize, I put a flash coating on the threads using a clean dry brush instead of one with a gob of anti-seize on it. The coating is so thin, it looks more like a spray-on coating.
There are some people who should not be allowed to be a mechanic. Just like some people can not be a musician. I have been using anti-sieze for 50 plus years on spark plugs. It is for the next guy. Be sure to use nickel anti-seize not copper. Nickel has a higher operating temperature. Be sure to use it sparingly on the threads. Use your finger to work it into the thread evenly. Start One or two threads back from the electrode end the full length of the thread. This is a great video to educate people on the subject. Trial and error is the best teacher in the long run. If it works for you then don’t fix it. 50+years of experience doesn’t mean you know everything but it does increase your odds of success in this ever changing world.
Champion Aerospace 2612 Spark Plug Thread Lubricant is an old aviation standby. If you think car parts are expensive try aircraft! It's easy not to overtighten. I've NEVER done that in over forty years working on delicate motorcycle spark plugs let alone car plugs. Many "mechanics" who never worked on anything delicate or precise treat spark plugs like lug nuts. I've had to fix stuff they buggered but every stuck spark plug I dealt with was either corroded due to moisture intrusion or crossthreaded. None were stretched to failure. I use Time-Serts for thread repair after grinding a SMALL notch in the rim. Install Time-Sert, drill hole centered on notch slightly smaller than a section of steel finishing nail, fill with JB Weld (takes very little) then drift a short (about 1/4") pin you cut from a finish nail. That pin cannot escape because the plug traps it. Old aircooled motorcycles require frequent plug swaps, much more often than cars and these have never had a customer comeback at the shop where my Vincent-restoring mentor taught me the trick. He'd been wrenching motorcycles since the 1950s. Both of us were USAF crew chiefs and I was also a jet engine mech.
I have been installing spark plugs for some 50 years and I have always applied anti-seize and never used a torque wrench. I screw the plugs in by hand until they are bottomed and then tightened them by one flat or 60 degrees and have never, ever had one strip or come loose. Do be aware that you should always ensure that you do not apply the anti seize compound any closer that the last three (3) threads on the spark plug as it can melt and flow down the plug with the potential to short it to ground.
I always use a very light coating of anti-seize, except when installing a plug in a cast iron head. And I don't tighten a plug to a torque value. I tighten the plug until the gasket just touches the head, then continue to tighten the plug until the resistance to tightening it rises abruptly (typically a 1/2 turn). I use the same procedure for tapered plugs (no gasket), but they only need 1/16 - 1/8 of a turn past finger tight. And I've never stripped a cylinder head or a plug.
Back in the late 70's, i had a spark plug seize in the head of my engine. It had been installed originally by myself, properly, dry and set on the washers. When it came time to replace, it was locked in place, and I managed to twist off the plug from the threads. The 4 banger ran, but sounded like an old time steam engine - chuf!- chuf!, chuf!. A local garage BROKE their easy-out trying to remove it. Last recourse was an engine rebuild shop that fixed the head. Used anti-seize after that. In those days, the plugs may not have had that plating on the threads, just bare steel.
GM issued a TSB warning of the use of anti- seize on spark plugs. It inhibits the transfer of heat to the cylinder head, causing the plug to be hotter and shortening its life. Best practice is to remove plugs and run a thread chaser and lube threads with engine oil at regular intervals. Anti- seize is for those who leave the plugs in for extended periods without removal.
Can't say I've ever really had antiseize work as advertised for me, I'll usually use a few drops of motor oil on nice threads ,or ones that are a little worn I'll use some (moly) CV joint grease. And I can't say I've ever had an issue on removing them the next time.
I always use a whisper of nickel anti-sieze on plug threads - it handles the heat. Regular is often junk and just doesn't hold up over time. How the heck people have snapped threads off is beyond me. In decades of wrenching, if I break something its a steel bolt in aluminum that was probably installed dry and lived in a salt environment for years. Saying a plug does not "require" anything brings some assumptions with it, like a minimum miles per year driving to get at a reasonable replacement schedule. For low miles drivers [like me], their advice might disappoint because time in service is what will matter for these coatings. Well covered. What I was able to dig up on the Versachem B product was lithium grease/petroleum distillates with... copper, calcium oxide, graphite, with remainder [roughly 5%] as proprietary.
Yes, miles-in-service is key as far as corrosion is concerned. But even (in fact, especially) if the plugs are replaced often (unlikely these days), the idea of repeatedly installing a relatively hard steel shank (spark plug) in a relatively soft aluminum receiver (spark-plug hole) without lubrication makes me nervous. Thank you for the comment.
Can't tell you how many fasteners I've removed that felt close to snapping off or bringing the threads with them, numerous times they have. This is one of my primary reasons for disliking aluminum heads.
I started working on cars at 12 in my uncle's auto repair biz. That was in '65. One of the 1st jobs I became proficient at was gaping & installing plugs; typically my uncle would take the hard, (AC) on installs. He usually removed them out, due to me having 12 yo arms. He'd put the plugs down on my end of the bench, I'd spec the car engine, gap 'em & we'd install 'em. He worked on zero imports. By my mid 20's, I was a Toyota specialist, but worked on all imports. By 30, I had my uncle doing domestic AND foreign repair. In my teens, I was building drag cars & racing; an older drag racing mentor was building a new A/Gas 65 Chevy II. His previous, a shoebox '64 was a 2 time national ET record holder for their class. His new 14:1 302 SBC would not run at 3000+ RPM's. The local Chev dealership helped me w/ parts expense on my C/Gas '57 wagon. An out of town dealership was a major sponsor of his '65, so he ran AC Delco, like I did. There were no NGK's at parts stores, none, zero, zip. We rarely saw aluminum heads unless it was a fuel hemi or big $ BBC, (NOT in my teens, at all). We tested AC plugs for 3 hrs. 50% failed to fire at +150psi. I went to the local Honda dealer where a friend was an apprentice. I knew the 2 brothers-owners cause I made their weekend breakfasts at my sister's cafe, early in high school. The apprentice & I had a mutual friend working on cars in AK. He'd said the only plug working reliably in -40⁰F, Fairbanks was NGK & I should try them in my SBC's. We crossed AC to Champion to Autolite to get an NGK number close enough. 8 NGK's solved the problem. Plugs have 2 coatings, zinc dichromate or black oxide, (IE Autolite). Black is NOT raw steel. I learned about NevaSeize on plugs that Sat @ the Honda shop. My friend gave me some & said it made R&Ring plugs much easier, plus they'd damage a ton of M/C heads without it. My mentor was military trained in electronics & liked the NevaSeize for a possibly improved electrical connection. (It is, afterall, powdered aluminum (silver ver) or powdered copper, (brown ver) in a oil suspension; make a superior heat sink compound I learned, (in my 50's!) We both liked the idea of easy to R&R plugs, plugs less thread damage/chance of cross threading. By the late 80's plugs in alum was common place. I've done repeat work on multiple dozen's of cars & trucks in my life. NEVER did I experience plug or alum head damage. Neither have the mainly mechanics I've trained or know. How do I know? In my machanic life I met exactly 2 pro mechanics who used NevaSeize. I taught the rest. If head or plug failure happen, some would have tracked me down to exact revenge. Look at the example pic of potential plug damage; 1 image looks like complete rupture of the thread barrel. I've met guys who've ½ air impacted plugs in, on a dare, & THEY never ruptured a thread bsrrel. If someone is blaiming NevaSeize on the thread barrel damage, they're talking out their arse. As far as over tighening, a competent, pro mechanic will not, because they now what a PITA & expense), plug thread can be. No sane person would inflict that on themselves. Therein lies the key point of NGK's communication. It is written by competent mechanics, then edited by corp attorneys & loss mitigation specialists. NGK cannot control who buys & installs their plugs, so they have to protect themselves from the idiots of the world who have no connection between their brains & arm muscles. Continue using NevaSeize, you will not be doing yourself or customers wrong. What you should add to every diag list for any rough running, unknown car is a compression test. I never had a tune up, (in the old ages wheh they were a thing), come back for anything other than a failed component. I weeded out the bad valves/rings BEFORE the tune up was done. Guys used to say they could do it w/ a scope; never proved it, though. I'd think a quick, engine hot compression test would still do for you what it did for me, removed the speculation & either guessing or much more diagnostics about hard part problems before spending customer $ on components. In my day, it was ignition, now it's sensors or control units. It's a well invested 10 minutes in YOUR rep as a pro mechanic. GeoD
those plugs with crush washers: tighten until the washer is crushed, then stop. That doesn't change wether you use anti-seize or not. A torque wrench is not needed, but a bit of feel is.
I really appreciate your analysis on aluminum cylinder heads and I highly recommend I always use anti-seize on spark plugs and very careful tighten them up like you said I agree with everything that you say you sound like a and talk like a very educated professors with metals and lubricants
I put a extremely small amount on my sp threads and ran it through to coat the entire thread, then remove and let dry, then i would have a nice thin coating of anti-sieze to help stop corrosion and/or stubborn to remove plugs. Not on every engine I have, but on some :-D
I've been in the automotive scene for more than 2 decades and still see antiseize on plugs and wheel bolts. It might be common knowledge, but a lot of folks don't have common sense and need to be educated or re-educated.
Many times, spark plugs going in without anti-seize feel like cross threading is happening. That's why I used anti-seize. Iridium plugs that have been in an engine for 120,000 miles on them, are often hard to get out with stripping head possible. Mechanics do a slow back and forth loosening of plugs in this case.
I use anti-seize on my NGK plugs. I don't use a torque wrench. On the box of the NGK plugs I buy, it gives instructions to turn 3/4 of a turn after the crush washer makes contact. If I wasn't using anti-seize, I'd still follow the box instructions. I don't trust the clean torque value on old threads. You can feel when tightening replacement plugs, they don't all have the same feel. Some go in a little tighter from carbon fouling in the threads of the cylinder head, so you'll be under-torquing those using a torque wrench. If there's no instructions on the box, only then will I use a torque wrench and torque to spec (-20% if using anti-seize).
I've always used anti-seize, not knowing why it worked. I figured it kept fouling from working up the threads, which would result in a seized plug, then subsequent breakage or thread stripping. It also has been useful for hand-tightening since it lubricates. A reasonable torque on the spark plug or 1/8" turn past hand tight has worked well in 100's of plugs. I've never had one come loose or break off.
Honda automobile service manuals call for antiseize. I'm referring to the factory printed soft cover paper service manuals covering autos, 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, at a specific torque specification. All models had aluminum heads. That is how I roll.
Every time that I used anti seize on my toyota tacoma 2tr-fe engine, the plugs were hard to remove. Have not used it since. Now thay come out like thay should. A friend used anti seize and took two hours to remove one spark plug.
Not all anti-seize compounds are created equal. Products intended for high-temperature applications contain more metal and are rated at over 2000 deg. F. Lesser-quality anti-seize products have lower max. operating temperatures and contain more grease, which can carbonize in high-temp applications and make plugs difficult to remove.
I always dab a little on the threads. I build drag cars and we are constantly replacing spark plugs, in/out-in/out and so on. We use a hotter plug just to warm the motor/oil up then switch to a cold plug and pull it to the line, start it and make the run then shut down at the end and get towed back. When back the plugs get pulled to be read. Anti-seize goes a long way with preserving the thread integrity in the heads. Just do not over-tighten although I've cranked on quite a few 14mm thread plugs while indexing and NEVER broke one in 25+ years even with anti-seize. I've pulled threads in soft heads before.
Thank you for the comment! In your experience, does anti-seize affect the heat range of the plugs at all? Some mfgs claim it makes the plugs run hotter ...
@@Zerk_Ziegler No. However I do not use a lot and only every few times when I see that it needs some. Too much and it will start to drip into the cylinders.
I had to replace the aluminium cyl head on my motor because 3 of the 6 NGK plugs without lubricant had seized in it, to such an extent I broke one of them trying to remove it, the ali picked up in the thread. I have always lubed spark plugs on installation and so far the only plug I have ever broken is the one in this head trying to remove it.
One interesting ,unusual but IMO very objective way of controlling the proper tightening of spark plugs is by measuring the thickness of the sealing washer . It’s found experimentally that for Denso plugs it must be 1.6mm after proper tightening . Also this method allow you to see if the spark plug has been tightened properly previous time . Also you can torque down your spark plugs dry as the manufacturers recommends . After that remove them ,apply anti seize and tight them back by turning on recommended by the manufacturer angle but for spark plugs which already been tighten at least once .It’s usually stated on the box . IMO anti seize make more difficult to read the proper heat range of the spark plugs which has been in use.
@@Zerk_Ziegler ruclips.net/video/bfcprut_q-k/видео.htmlsi=YT9A9um23wPHJjps after 2:16 minute . Unfortunately is on Russian language. I will translate with pleasure some moments for you if you point me by the video timing!
I'm calling BS on NGK. I tighten by crusing the crush washer, not by torque reading. I also lube all wheel studs due to the salt environment. I've broken off many seized lugs, but never pulled one in a lifetime (50+ years of wrenching) 1/2 turn after firm contact will not pull a spark plug in half. Maybe chinesium. I have been using anti-seize since reading a 2007 Toyota TSP asking dealers to remove the plugs from new engines and apply anti-seize. I owned the engine in question and the plugs to date are nearly identical. I also never use NGK plugs. I prefer to use Delco in GM and Denso in Toyotas, Motocraft in Ford. I notice that now the Denso plugs feature silver paint on the threads which is old-school anti-seize. I just installed a Denso oxygen sensor and applied Denso anti-seize that came with it. Same crush washer system.
My engine manual says 18Nm torque for the spark plugs. I can not imagine that they will overstretch even when lubricated with that low torque. I am in doubt if is possible to overstretch a spark plug made out of steel in aluminium treads.
If using anti-seize follow instructions on package of having plug bottom out and then no more than 1/4 turn addition. This will feel loose but only because anti-seize is so slippery. Also, use small wrench which isn't so easy to over torque with.
Here at NKG we are using less conventional metals that are softer and easier on our tooling with a bonus that the source material is very cheap. To combat complaints of our plugs literally twisting off at the base, because we made the threaded shells too thin, we have put together this information packet that masks build quality problems with carefully selected wording and use cases while simultaneously shifting the blame to the installer.
Tight is tight and we all know what it feels like as life-long mechanics until you give us a weaker metal and ask us when it is tight. That's when we twist them in two.
Whoever broke those spark plugs must have tightened them like Hercules. I'm surprised they did not strip the threads. They dont need to be that tight with anti seize or not.
Super Presentation!!! I have a great running 302,000 mile ‘07 Toy Yaris I’ve owned since nearly new. I waited until 217,000 miles to change the original plugs… It took quite a bit of force to free them…I was quite afraid they were going to strip! Q. I’m curious as to how much of that friction was the threads vs seat friction? And yea…I applied anti-seize and eased off on the torque on the new ones. Bout time to change again.
From what I recall, when a fastener is tightened, about 50% of the torque is used to overcome head friction and 40% to overcome thread friction -- only about 10% of the applied torque goes to stretching the bolt and creating clamping force.
@@Zerk_Ziegler My only potential contention is the assertion that fasteners are designed to be torqued dry or lightly oiled, given its critical the proper application of a specified lubricant be applied to engine head studs/bolts, rod bolts and crank mains and other critical components. ARP is the world leader in aerospace quality fasteners and explains via RUclips why it’s critical that proper lube be employed. Copy n paste the wording below to RUclips: Why Use ARP Ultra-Torque Fastener Assembly Lubricant
Great video. I have heard some say that copper based anti-seize is the best for preventing galvanic corrosion (even some manufacturers say this) and others say that it actually can make it worse if used with certain metal combinations. However when you look up the ingredients of the basic silver colored anti-seize maid by permatex, it has aluminum, copper and graphite. So it is combining two materials (aluminum and copper) that should be a problem and graphite is about as far away from zinc and aluminum as you can get. I don't understand how this isn't an issues? I always assumed zinc or nickel was in that anti-seize. Can anyone explain why in the chart shown at 8:33 that it shows stainless (in the vertical column on the left) is safe to pair with aluminum (on the horizontal row at the top), but if you do the flip of that (aluminum in the left column with stainless in the top row), it shows as a galvanic corrosion risk?
I will be the thorn on the side. I never used anti seize. Well a few times but those that had that on them always caused a removal issue. I always chased the threads and thats it. No problems. To clarify, i worked only on mercedes vehicles and used bosch sp plugs.
My moms 1.6l ford escape has the galvanic corrosion on two of the four spark plugs. I was lucky to be able to remove 3 of them, the 4th one broke, now i have to deal with extraction. Definately not thrilled. I was even less thrilled when i double checked the owners manual, for reccomended spark pluv interval of 100k. My vehicle only has 70k. I am topping up antifreeze, but very minimal. System consumes about 12oz bottle of water every 45-60 days. I borescope every cylinder, and i am not sure what i am seeing. Definately reccomend removing all plugs, and put a pressure tester on the system overnight, hopefully (actually not hopefully 😂) i may find coolant intrusion in the combustion chambers of my two problem holes...
I find that 100K intervals may be fine for the plugs, but not so good for the threads they screw into. It's always a good idea to pull the plugs out, say every 30K, inspect, apply anti-seize, and reinstall.
When removing plugs, its best to crack it then do it back up then crack 1/8th then do it back up, slowly increased how far you undoo it each time untill the plug feels fairly free. Carbon can build up around the end creating a lip holding the plug in. You need to crack it off by working the plug. If you try just turning the plug straight out it can cut the thread out very badly or jam completely, as i think you found. The broken plug needs to be turned back IN on the first go at extraction, and soak it in throttle body cleaner to dissolve the carbon. There will be bits of ceramic plug in the cylinder and need careful and complete removal, airline vacuum recommended and DO NOT turn the motor AT ALL untill the cylinder is guaranteed clear, DO NOT BLOW AIR INTO THE CYLINDER as it could blow debris up the intake only to fall back later and blow the motor. When replacing plugs make sure you screw them all the way in by hand, if you have to use a spanner you may cross thread them if the threads were damaged removing the old ones, if that happens it's a big buck professional job, as it is with the broken plug your gonna need advance level mechanical know-how. The corrosion of the plugs is not unusual and unlikely indicates coolant in the cylinder. A difference in appearance of the electrodes with larg variation in colour and deposit would be, and possibly one piston having a cleaner looking top. A leak into a cylinder would get worse in a short time. Your beer can worth of water every 2 months is possibly a bad radiator cap or seal, or leaking heater tap. Look at all the pipes where rubber hoses conect for signs of corrosion or scale from dryed coolant, you wont actually see moisture with a leak that slow.
This is backyard engineering. The NGK sheet just said to not use antiseize on its coated spark plug threads. Debating this is just like debating the opinion of your old family doctor. Always go with the best authority available and not with your personal opinion.
I appreciate the comment. The purpose of the video was to explore the REASONING behind the manufacturer's recommendation. In short, since many folks are unaware of the need to reduce the torque when anti-seize is used, and over-torqueing a spark plug is, to put in mildly, highly undesirable, spark-plug manufacturers advise that the coated plugs be installed dry. But, in some cases, the coating on the threads just does not last long enough, and that's when problems begin. Generally speaking, there are many reasons why the "best authority available" provides one or another recommendation. Remember doctors, who prescribed highly addictive painkillers without hesitation? In my opinion, one should go through life at least TRYING to think for him/herself. Asking WHY is not a bad thing, last time I checked. The easiest thing in the world is to find a "safe" box and put yourself in it. What if your factory manual recommends the use of anti-seize on the plugs and the spark-plug manufacturer does not?
Awesome video. Never thought about the galvanic corrosion issue. I ran across someone who said not use the aluminun antiseize on sparkplugs because it hardens up and becomes stuck do to heat. For this reason i use a high temp nickle antiseize. But now i wonder if nickle is a wise choice due to galvanic corrosion.
It is true that aluminum is more anodic than nickel. But, if you use good-quality nickel-based anti-seize, I don't think you should have any problems. Nickel-based anti-seize products generally have high temperature ratings, which means the stuff will stay put between the threads over time, blocking entry of electrolytic substances. No electrolyte = no corrosion. Just my $.02.
On the back of that comment, I suspect the anti seize compound on new O2 sensors is nickel. My experience is copper doesn't work but equally the compound may be aluminium or zinc but I think it looks more like nickel. Bostitk and Loctite nickel anti seize are the only ones which have military NSNs.
Spark plugs are grounded through their threads. Conventional anti-seize is a poor conductor, and increases the resistance of the plug, thereby reducing the voltage at the electrodes. If you use anti-seize on spark plugs, which I do, be sure to use the special spark plug anti-seize made by Champion, Unison or ATS that maintains the good ground contact through the threads.
Not sure about the benefits of graphite-based anti-seize over metal-based products. Check out the video description for some numbers for perspective. Also, a good portion of thermal and electrical conduction occurs through the seat of the plug.
The list is in order of nobility, if you put any two metals together, the metal higher on the list will be the one that corrodes and potential rate of corrosion is greater the further apart they are on the list. Copper is better than nothing even though the alloy of the head would lose to the copper, its far less than to the iron of the spark due to mitigation of electrolyte by the copper past, that then gives basically 100% protection by there being no medium for electrons to transfer through. Zinc loses to both iron and alloy (the sacrificial anode) and the coating is applied thick enough to last the average duration a plug is in service. As for torque, because of the exact reason you say "less friction" would cause over tightening, spark plugs have a tightening procedure! Depending on the seal face of the plug, flat, tapered, crush washer or flat washer, you turn the plug down by hand till firm then depending on the type of seal, you continue to tighten trough a specified number of degrees.
Excellent point about tightening through a specified number of degrees. Always the best way if the spec is available. In aerospace, some fasteners are tightened using the "two flats" method.
Well, you don't just tighten every threaded fastener the same way willy-nilly -- gotta follow the spec :) Also, I really like your take on why copper anti-seize provides good corrosion protection in an alloy head even though aluminum is more reactive (less noble) than copper. @mrgoodman6620
I've never had trouble removing spark plugs I've installed! Torque applied? Simply my judgement as to how much is enough! Never had a loose spark plug either! It's called mechanical feel! Some of us have it! Yes I apply copper grease.
I agree to the difference between dry and lubricated torque, but the torque value tipycally is around 18 foot pound which es a very low value to break a spark plug, on top of that, Champion know about spark plugs because they make them, they make and recommend graphite based thread lubricant and I guess they take that in consideration, on the other hand it is a type of dry lubricant.
Thanks for putting this up.👍What you say about decreasing the torque by 30% or so makes a lot of sense. I changed the spark plugs in my daughter's car and one of them was corroded, and misfiring. Is there a way to clean the mild corrosion on the engine block around that spark plug?
If the area around the spark plug can be easily accessed, you could try removing the corrosion using WD40 and a fine Scotch Brite pad or 000 or 0000 steel wool. Just make sure the spark plug is threaded into the hole before you do this, so that the debris you generate does not end up inside the engine. Then clean the area with mineral spirits and wipe up with a paper towel or clean rag. Finally, use some compressed air (or something like a Metrovac Air Blaster) to blow any remaining crud out (don't forget eye protection). Also, you might find my video on spark-plug replacement helpful: ruclips.net/video/q2r0FmzXLI0/видео.html
@@Zerk_Ziegler Thank you, I checked out your other video about changing spark plugs - very informative. I like that you address spark plug corrosion in this video, not many do. My daughters car is a 2008 Mazda 3, so the spark plugs are very recessed, but I might give it a go. Thanks again!🙂
If the plugs are recessed, it is important to blow any debris out of the recessed areas. Otherwise, at least some of it may go into the hole the next time you remove the plug. Not the end of the world, as it's likely to be blown out of the exhaust. However, there is always a chance of scoring the cylinder walls and/or damaging the piston rings.
@@fredfred4086 from my experience... change the boots. silicone grease/oil will help, but mostly.. change the boots. misfires and corrosion usually suggests pooled water sitting in the hole, the boot gets wet, arcs internally, gets a carbon path... and once thats developed, its useless.
I don’t think the zinc acts as a sacrificial anode, zinc is also a lubricant. I have always used anti-seize and will continue to. Never ever used a torque wrench.
The lubricating property of anti-seize is another reason I use it -- much easier on the aluminum threads in the head. And you are right -- if no electrolytic substance is introduced between the threads, no electrochemical reaction occurs. That's why copper-based anti-seize (aluminum is more reactive than copper) is also effective. But, if there IS some gap to receive the "electrolyte", zinc is your best best.
Well, I have never in my life….and that covers a total of 71 1/2 years now and for ASE master certificates… used a torque wrench to tighten a spark plug. I gently tighten using my hand and wrist choked up on the top of the ratchet, so that I am incapable of overtorquing the plug. I’ve never had one come loose, and that spans engines from Farmall tractors to race cars. Now perhaps in recent years, it has become popular to use a torque wrench for spark plugs, and I can definitely see how you could over torque a plug, if you have anti-sieze compound on the threads, and you use the same torque value.
I do not recommend using anti seize on spark plugs. I used anti seize on my 1997 BMW R1100RT motorcycle and it resulted in an expensive repair. After a few thousand miles the spark plug loosened up and caused the Motronic ignition system to fail when the spark plug lost its ground. The repair manual warns about the need to maintain the ground when testing for spark..
Anti-seize acts like a lubricant, you have to reduce the torque about 20 percent or run the risk of breaking the plug, bolt, nut, etc. or overthighting.
I don't find any need to use anti-seize in cast iron heads but I do use a light coating in aluminum head. Not sure how anybody can get a torque wrench into some of these tight areas, I've never used a torque wrench but I will say they only need to be tight enough to seal and stay put. Not sure why people over torque them, avoid doing that! I advise against using copper based anti-sieze in aluminum heads due to incompatability between aluminum and copper.
But how much effort are you putting on tightening. You can either use a torque spanner if you feel that necessary or tighten until you feel the sealing washer start to pull up. This is no worse a problem than tightening bolts into aluminium. I would suggest the problem will only result if you do not service at required intervals or you are in a marine environment which will have its own servicing time an procedures.
I would use a copper-based anti-seize on spark plug threads for the improved electrical conductivity to maintain the ground strap electrode at zero potential.
What does that table say about this scenario? I put some cheap blue anodized valve caps on my wheels. 6 months later I went to check my tire pressure and they were all seized up and had a white ring at the base of the cap. I had to resort to vertical cuts with a dremel, and pry them off. All the threads on the valve stem were packed with a dry caked up powder
If the cap is made of aluminum, and the threads of the valve stem are brass, the aluminum cap will corrode. The white powder you see is oxidized aluminum.
Anti seize on spark plugs is just a bad idea in general. I've been a mechanic for the last 10 years or so. I used to actually use anti-seize on certain engines with aluminum heads. But the problem I started running into, I would torque the plugs to spec, plus a couple extra percent. However, the intense vibrations from a running engine, often the plugs would lose torque and slowly loosen up. Especially on some Ford's, I started to notice when the cars would come back, the plugs would not even be hand tight anymore, you could reach in and spin them out by hand. I recommend changing plugs every 50k miles at the most, regardless if the service schedule says they are good for 100k or whatever. If you just change them more often, it's less likely they will become seized in the holes over time.
Question: do you think the washer was crushed completely when you torqued the plugs to spec? In the past, I noticed that the plugs would be more likely to loosen if it wasn't. I suspect vibration and heat cycles cause a washer that hasn't been fully compressed to sag eventually, creating a loss in preload. My feeling is that if the washer were fully crushed, and then the specified torque applied, plugs wouldn't back out.
I guess I was lucky? I have a 2001 GMC Yukon that has over 300000 miles on it, the plugs were original! Why it still ran I don't know??? I was able to remove them, it wasn't that hard I was afraid I would snap a few off in the aluminum heads, the only difficulty was the rear plug locations, they were definitely worn down over twice the gap they should have had. I replaced them with IRadium plugs with a dab of anti seize. I think I'll be good for a while now. If you wonder why I am spending time and money on a 21 Year old with over 300k on it? It has absolutely no rust and the engine runs fine. I use it for long trips 3000 miles regularly, I think the highway mileage is what kept it running so long. And I don't beat on it like too many people do to their vehicles today.😮 Treat it like a lady and she will treat you right.
Thank you for posting this comment. I think you hit the nail on the head as far the benefits of long trips are concerned. To have galvanic corrosion between two dissimilar metals, electrolyte is required. It is my guess that by warming the engine up thoroughly during long trips, acids that are generated during the combustion process and pushed into the interstitial space between the threads of the plugs and the head are burned away. Minimizing the amount of electrolyte minimizes corrosion. Generally speaking, long trips and relatively gentle use are key for engine longevity. But, it's not a bad idea to "get on it" once in a while to blow the carbon out of the combustion chamber :)
My 2011 Ranger XLT Supercab 2.3 4 cylinder Duratec has 196,000 miles. I bought it at 60,000 miles. I’ve never replaced the spark plugs. Aluminum block and head. Any advice on removing the old plugs?
There are a few related comments, below. The main thing is to take it slow and easy. If you are patient, a good penetrant will help, with some luck. Also, check out Ford's TSB 08-1-9.
My advice: once you crack a plug free and start backing it out, if you feel any unnatural resistance don’t try to power through it - run the plug back in and then try backing it out again. It should make more progress before binding up again. Repeat until the plug is free.
You bring up an interesting point, I just changed My spark plugs, My recommendation for torque was 15-20FT LB I lightly coated all the threads into the cylinder block. Question, am I right in doing so? Thank You
Did the recommendation also specify the use of anti-seize with the supplied torque value? Some do and others don't. Lubricating the threads significantly reduces the coefficient of friction, so if the recommendation was intended for dry, clean threads, it is possible to over-torque the plug. When using a dry-torque recommendation, I reduce the torque by 30% when installing the plugs into an aluminum head. After using the torque wrench, I check that the plugs are snug in the head using feel (no gorilla strength, god forbid).
@@Zerk_Ziegler Thank You for the quick response. I just got back from removing the anti-seize. The more I thought about it, the more I realized that I might be over-thinking this project. No doubt, that there is some residual left on the threads in the head, but I backed out twice to clean the plug. I still think that you should use anti-seize, due in part to the mechanics that are stuck with the very challenging "do or don't" scenario repair. Have a Great Weekend, USN(RET)
For sure there is some still left. The are two potential problems with using anti-seize on a spark plug: (1) over-torqueing the plug and (2) contaminating the electrode. If you apply anti-seize with care and use proper torque, you should have no issues.@@FoolsAmongUs
@@Zerk_Ziegler One other question if you would, I have tapered plugs, the specs show 10-15 with anti-seize, and 15-20 without. However, another Mechanic said he would just hand tighten them, what would you recommend?
@@FoolsAmongUs I would torque to the low end of the spec (say 10 lb-ft with anti-seize) and then would try to hand-tighten further just a little, making sure NOT to overtighten.
Interesting point. Plugs having a black oxide finish are technically not considered plated. ACDelco 41-606 is an example. However, it is true that black oxide does resist corrosion.
According to NGK, the optimal firing-end temperature of a spark plug is approximately 500°C (932°F) to 800°C (1472°F). Even though some heads may be EXPOSED TO exhaust temperatures above 1400°F , the temperature of the alloy itself is much lower than that. There ARE Moly-based anti-seize products advertised for use on spark-plug threads. They are generally rated for around 800°F. One brand of Moly-based anti-seize, advertised online, claims that "this product has excellent conductive properties which allow use on spark plug threads exposed to MODERATE temperature." Another manufacturer states that "since this compound contains MoS2, which at higher temperature conditions (1000°F and above) may INDUCE CORROSION OF FASTENER OR CONTIGUOUS METALS ... its use at higher temperatures should be avoided." Therefore, buyer beware. The zinc-based anti-seize I use is rated for 2450°F -- there is no kill like overkill, as they say :)
Looks like when you apply antisieze, the concern will be the torque being applied during installation. Do you have an idea of how much torque (range) will break a spark plug?
It would be interesting to do a bench test to find out. Also, I wonder if the plug will break before the threads in the aluminum head strip out. My go-to method for installing plugs with anti-seize on the threads is to back the torque off 30% from the middle value of the recommended range and then check if the plug can be CAREFULLY hand-tightened a little further, just in case it's a bit loose in the head.
LOCTITE LB 8044 ZN Zinc Anti-Seize part # 233507 This is one of the only zinc anti-seize I can find. Would this be high on your list for spark plugs? If yes or no…pls let me know why Would it be temp tolerant for plugs? If not this composition…then what and why? Much thanks!!
This is a fine product, but it is more of a general-purpose anti-seize, rated for a max temp. of 750 deg. F. I would suggest something with a higher temperature rating when it comes to spark plugs. Here is the link for Never Seez: www.amazon.com/Mariners-Choice-Anti-Seize-mariners-choice/dp/B0068UJ2H8. Aluminum-based products, like BustApart, also work great.
Interesting. Both Champion and Loctite offer graphite-based (metal-free) anti-seize, which they specifically recommend for use on spark plugs. Wouldn't powder be more difficult to apply?
No, You just pour it on and press it into the threads with a finger - You can give the threads a bit of very thin oil to make the powder more sticky @@Zerk_Ziegler
It is true that aluminum is more reactive than copper, so I personally try to use zinc-based anti-seize whenever possible. Marine applications are some of the most challenging ones for sure.
Salt water marine mechanic here since 1979. I use Permitex aluminum zinc silver based antiseize as you warn. We had copper head gaskets on older iron inboards . But aluminum outdrives with stainless propellers sizzle like Alka seltzer in some big marina with shore power leakage at slips . Mercathode anode cathode is a must . I only use NGK on marine and motorcycle since the 70s . Beware of counterfeit NGK iridium spark plugs now.
I have a question I replaced NgK plugs on a Gen3 Prius I applied I light coating of Mobil 1 oil to the threads I did not use a torque wrench But i was careful not to over tighten using my best guess Should I have concerns? Was applying oil a bad move? In your opinion should I pull the plugs and do a do-over? Thanks in advance!
Oil is not really suitable for high-temperature applications such as this (see comments, below, concerning the use of molybdenum disulfide paste). I think it's best to pull the plugs, clean off the oil using carb cleaner, and apply a little high-quality anti-seize to the threads without getting any on the ground strap or the center electrode. If you have good feel, you don't have to use a torque wrench. Also, spark-plug manufacturers provide charts, specifying fractions-of-a-turn tightening specs for particular sizes and types of plugs. Note that angle-wise tightening specs are different for new and used plugs that have crush washers. If you pull the plugs and reinstall, they are "used".
@@Zerk_Ziegler I agree, I was already leaning towards this. I appreciate your second opinion I’m probably the only Prius owner you’ll meet who has driven it at its governed max speed of 124mph! lol I regularly drive the interstate at 90-105 Somehow I feel driving it hard is better for the hybrid engine, less thermal cycles…. It just stays hot!
License and registration, please ... Bad jokes aside, internal-combustion engines certainly last longer when they are properly warmed up. They also benefit from occasional high-RPM use, as this helps to blow the carbon out of the combustion chamber. However, sustained high-speed, full-throttle operation does increase stress and corresponding wear on all drivetrain components. As for driving habits to make my daily ride last, I would try to minimize shorts trips (under 10 miles), accelerate hard once in a while (no, not from EVERY stop light), and take it easy on the pedals the rest of the time. Your car and your wallet will thank you.
Last question… I’m seeming to experiencing a bit of difficulty sourcing zinc anti. Really don’t trust eBay sellers…AT ALL! What zinc formulation/composition do you suggest? Around 4oz is plenty for me.
Anti-seize makes it easy to damage threads on cylinder heads. Ironically most people apply anti-seize to avoid damage. Older vehicles like 1960s Volkswagens had stronger aluminum heads and didn't have thread problems on heads.
i use just a dab I have seen too many people just smother the threads with anti-seize, dielectric or just plan grease .to the point of rediculesness covering even the electrodes. than wondering why the plugs are fouling, almost the same as plugs v patches a few years back they tell you not to plug but patches don't galvanize like they used to since doing away with lighting I have used plugs for over 30 years, and they work. Unlike taking down a tire going through all the steps checking re checking only to have that same tire go flat. Two feet from the shop
The interstitial space between the shank and the receiver of any threaded connection is quite small. It takes very little lubricant to produce an even coat between the threads. Applying more lubricant will not change the friction equation -- the lubricant will simply be squeezed out. But, overlubricating the threads is a bad thing, since contaminating either end of a spark plug with anti-seize is likely to cause misfires. Instead of relying on the the 30% rule of thumb, one can tighten the plugs using a specified number of turns. Various spark-plug manufactures provide these specs for their products.
As I see it, anti-seize provides at least the following benefits: (1) when correctly selected for the application, it supplies additional sacrificial-anode material; (2) it seals the threads to some extent, which prevents/slows entry of "electrolyte" into the threaded connection (no electrolyte means no electrochemical reaction can take place); (3) it minimizes galling of the threads; and (4) for a given torque spec, it promotes a more consistent/repeatable preload (stretch) of the fastener. Of course, it is common knowledge that torque specifications for "lubricated" and "clean and dry" threads are different. If choosing to use anti-seize on spark plugs, my recommendation is to USE IT SPARINGLY. Contaminating either the porcelain nose or the external insulator can lead to problems, such as misfire and possibly even damage to ignition components, so it is CRITICAL TO KEEP ONE'S HANDS CLEAN when installing the plugs. Also, when applying anti-seize to the threads, I would keep it off the first couple AND the last few threads (the latter precaution to prevent any lube from being transferred to the washer/seat of the plug and potentially affecting heat transfer/electrical contact in that area). By the way -- thank you, everyone, for pitching in! There are many great comments, detailing viewers' first-hand experiences. To me, this is really about people exchanging and discussing different viewpoints on this seemingly simple issue. I hope all of us can learn something. I know I have.
For years I have used antisieze on plugs and will continue to. When installing plugs with gaskets I turn the plug 1/2-3/4 turn after the gasket touches. Plugs without gaskets I torque to specs.
Great video and rationalization in favor of using anti-seize along with reducing applied torque. The Chilton repair manual for my 2009 Honda Accord specifies the light application of anti-seize to the spark plug threads upon installation. Interestingly, NGK happens to be the recommended OEM spark plug for that vehicle.
Thanks for the video.
@@Peelerusa Thanks! Please check out the comments, if time permits.
I always use anti-sieze and I've never broken a plug or siezed a plug.
Perfectly said :) this goes for other fasteners as well not just spark plugs.
I'm 66, ase mechanic, worked on Subarus since 1973. My brother ( mechanical engineer) got to the bottom of seizing champion brand plugs.
He said NGK had gold anodized antisieze and ROLLED THREADS, champion brand was CUT THREADS and no anodized antisieze .
Subaru manual said NGK once removed was to be discarded, not reused.
By 1975 I antisieze all plugs going into aluminum!
NEVER HAD ONE COMEBACK, NEVER.
Thanks for sharing! BTW, what was the first year that Subaru imported cars into the US?
1968@@Zerk_Ziegler
Wow, thanks! I thought it was in the early '70s ...
pretty sure some visited pearl harbor under their first name 😉
I've been using antiseize for over 30 years on plugs. From old air cooled vw's to newer vehicles and have not once had any issue. I'll keep using it. Don't care what the manufacturer states.
The only time I’ve had an issue was with special plugs that didn’t have an electrode that sticks out like normal. The center electrode was recessed and the strap was just a little tab off the side. With those if you put on to much anti seize it could cause a missfire if it got on the tip.
Otherwise I’ve never had an issue unless someone basically dipped the whole plug in anti seize.
@@NBSV1 just a dab will do ya.
@@skelafeti Exactly. Doesn't take much. Only a complete clueless klutz would over torque a spark plug enough to snap the plug or strip the threads.
A great video and discussion on the topic, especially covering the additional torque that is generated when using a lubricant on the threads. However, ever since seeing a friends car have a coroded spark plug snap in two on removal (aluminium head) and requiring far too much effort from the mechanic to extract, I've always put never-sieze on my sparkplugs to minimise the corosion, create a better seal, and ensure they can be removed easier at a later date. 30+ years and this method is still working great for me and my family.
Thank you for the comment. I do as well! Watch: ruclips.net/video/q2r0FmzXLI0/видео.html
I agree, never broke a plug during installation in 22yrs on the job ( anyone who does isn't paying attention or moving too fast), but several on removal. Manufacturers can say what they want about their coatings, but I'm not gonna risk it
Excellent video!! I don't care what anyone says, all of my spark plugs will get anti seize with a 30% torque reduction!! I see time and time again these idiots in the comment section regurgitating not to use it, and I can only wonder if they are running a machine shop fixing stripped aluminum heads, haha!! And just like you demonstrate what happens to the factory coating after numerous heating and cooling cycles perfectly illustrates why to use anti seize!
Thank you for the comment. Yes, the more miles-in-service a plug has, the higher are the chances of it seizing up in the spark-plug hole.
Yes, the torque reduction is the key if the torque spec is for dry threads. Airplane engines require antisieze per the manual. The torque spec given is for a lubricated threads. It is very specific about leaving the first two threads that stick into the cylinder clean.
Exactly, in fact the Bosch spark plug manual species the % reduction in torque values when using anti-seize. I removed spark plugs in vehicles of friends and some were a real challenge taking time and being patient. In over 50 years, I have always used anti-seize on spark plugs as well as exhaust and high heat components.
On the other end of things, the only plugs I’ve ever had trouble with were ones I put anti-seize on. The stuff doesn’t handle the heat and gum/carbon up. I stopped using it over 25 years ago without issue.
Hey! I got a great idea! Don't be a lazy fool and leave your sparkplugs in your engine for a hundred thousand miles! And believe me when I tell you, that you don't want to reduce your torque on a Ford F-150 5.4 triton engine or it will launch a sparkplug right through the hood of your vehicle!😳
Great analysis! I AGREE! I am 71yrs old & have used antiseize for decades. Living in the rust belt, we MUST use it. NEVER had overtorqueing problems & agree, just drop torque specs if problems. Just apply a THIN coat. Two dissimilar metals? Dog gone right, antiseize it.
Thank you for the comment!
Most gasketed spark plugs tightening recommendations are either torque or finger tight with the gasket against the head then 1/2 to 5/8 turn. Taper seat is torque only. I use the 1/2 to 5/8 turn method and don't have any problem. I also think the antiseize promotes better heat transfer to the head. I use only aluminum antiseize because I work in the salt water environment and galvanic corrosion is very high. The aluminum antiseize is extremely good for stainless on stainless fasteners to prevent them from galling when assembled. Grease doesn't do the job. Just a very little bit of this stuff seems to get everywhere so I would caution getting any at all on the firing tip because it might short and foul the spark or any other electrical connection. I use the squeeze tube because it is easier to control the messiness and so little is needed for it to work.
Thanks for the comment! Yes, stainless-on-stainless galling can sure be a problem ... Also, it's not just the firing tip one needs to worry about -- it is important to keep anti-seize off the seat/washer and the back of the plug (external insulator) as well.
Very clear and thoroughly explained. Thank you for discussing the scientific reasoning behind your suggestions, I haven’t seen many videos that do so.
Honda's service manuals recommend anti-seize and provides a torque spec that assumes anti-seize is used. NGK, on the the other hand, specifies an angle not a torque. If either are respected then it won't be too tight. NGK's angle spec is impossible to overtighten regardless of use of antiseize. If someone used a dry torque spec and then added anti-seize then that would run into a problem (as NGK's bulletin described).
I have been using antiseize on spark plugs for a very long time. I also use a torque wrench. I have never had an issue with the threads in aluminum or cast iron heads. I have never broken a spark plug as depicted in the NGK picture but I have broken a small few by having the socket go on an angle when tightening so I have learned to keep the socket, extension and ratchet in a perpendicular position. My only precaution is to not lather up the threads and to keep it away from the electrodes, you do not want antiseize getting into a cylinder. IMHO, use it on all spark plugs and stop fretting over it. Those depicted NGK spark plugs must be made with recycled Chinese steel.
Thumbs up on keeping the socket straight and keeping anti-seize off the electrode and ground strap!
the problem is wet torque vs dry torque. if you use anti seize you need to lower the torque value as to not over tighten the plug.
I would also add that not all "anti-seize" compounds are the same. I have seen AS compounds that are copper-based, but I have also seen nickel-based "high temperature" AS.
Others are Zinc or Aluminum based and some contain no metal at all (check out the Loctite line of anti-seize products, for example)@@ronroberts110
@@Zerk_Ziegler
Next video: What type of anti-seize to use when and where! 😉
[oops, hadn’t watched the whole video yet]
PS. I’m your 219th subscriber. You deserve more!
Thanks for this. That's answered a lingering spark plug knowledge gap very well.
Also, Coming from long term marine experience, *copper-based anti-seize is really bad for alu connections.*
Long version:
When you 1st put it on, it seems ok. And if you take apart, clean, and reapply to that connection frequently, it's fine. (eg don't ignore it for 1 year at marine use).
But we learned the hard way again and again: if you have a connection that you aren't servicing a lot, and it goes for 1 year, *the corrosion protection additives will get used up, and your mixed-metal anti-seize will turn into a corrosion promoter.*
Certain anti-seize compounds are ok (zinc) as is *dielectric grease, as long as it isn't too hot* (don't use on turbo mounting studs). Dielectric was already designed to help prevent corrosion and isn't adding any mixed metals, so it works surprisingly well as a general purpose compound.
1 further note: I _wouldn't_ substitute Dielectric grease for anti-galling compound for SS on SS connections.
Thank you for sharing -- much appreciated!
Copper and aluminum are pretty reeactive on the galvanic chart, I never use copper in contact with aluminum.
@thisisyourcaptainspeaking2259 Curious as to why copper antiseize is the most readily available and practically promoted. What is its best application?
@@radleybradford1356 Milk of magnesia was never promoted for use as antisieze either besides Pratt&Witney, as far as I know?
I use my common knowledge when selecting materials compatibility. For instance, in low temp applications I use permatex 3B as an antisieze. I'll may try copper some day based on your recommendation but aluminum and copper never play well together in my experience.
Working in the Marine Industry for many years we always used Anti Seize compounds on Stainless Steel propeller shaft splines for Brass & Aluminum Props. Weather they were going in fresh or salt water it was a requirement.
I broke two sets of spark plugs after applying copper grease to the threads and torquing them down to NGK's specifications.
I learned my lesson. The third set I installed without grease and using the turning angle as a guide.
Keep in mind most torque specs are intended for use on clean and lubrrcated items. Inconsistencies in thread condition such as corrosion, debris, lube presence or even type of lube can greatly affect clamping force provided at a given torque. At higher torque the variation in clamping force can get kind of crazy. This is why on critical items such as rod bolts, the preferred method is torque + an angle. Torge to a lesser value before the variation gets out of hand and then to an angle to achieve desired final torque. The rod bolts are measured of stretch to insure correct clamping force. Even this is not fool proof and there will be variation in acquired clamping force but it is the most consistent method I know of.
Back to spark plugs. In the scheme of things torque related, they are not critical and do not require much torque to do what is required. The gasket type plugs must be tight enough to compress the gasket to form a good seal and not back out. The taper style must seal on the tapered area and not back out. This is mostly all that is required. Using anti sieze will help prevent damage to the threads in the engine head and will aid in sparkplug removal. As I see it there is no downside to using it except it is messy. It will prevent a 20 minute spark plug change becoming a two day head replacement. This is actually a common thing. Ask a Ford guy.
Agreed on all counts. For example, ARP recommends the use of their proprietary lubricant to repeatably achieve the required fastener preload and clamping force. Also, it's interesting that you mention the TORQUE+ ANGLE tightening specification. These types of critical fasteners are referred to as "torque-to-yield". The idea behind this approach is that the TORQUE specification preloads the fastener to just before the yield point on the elastic-deformation region of the stress-strain curve -- this part of the curve is a straight line that has a given slope. The ANGLE specification then preloads the fastener further beyond the yield point into the plastic-deformation region of the stress-strain curve. Since the plastic-deformation portion of the curve is more or less HORIZONTAL, the preload of the fastener and the associated clamping force are theoretically much more predictable.
Been changing plugs in aluminum heads using anti seize since 1977ish. It's pretty easy to "feel" the crush washer deform to the head and then begin to tighten. That's all you need. No torque wrench needed. Just did my Tacoma a few days ago. Easy peezy lemon squeezy.
I use zinc anti seize in every spark plug installation. Most plugs will bottom out when the crush washer is crushed. Torquing then stops.You will feel this point of resistance and stop. Unless you have gorilla hands there will be no problem. Lubricant and torquing really plays no role once the washer is crushed to seal .Makes it a lot easier to remove later on.
I even use the factory specified Castrol anti-seize (looks like Permatex 133H - silver) on the factory aluminum lug nuts on my Porsche 911 (993 series). They get torqued to 130 Nm or 96 lbf.ft. as called for in the factory manual.
Wow 96 lb ft? My land cruiser calls for around 25
He is talking lug nuts, not spark plugs 🙃 @@brkbtjunkie
Last air cooled engine. I bet it’ll still put a smile on your face every time you start it. 😁
@@Conservator. Nothing like simplicity, besides I grew up with real VW Beetles and of course they were air cooled just like my Porsche 993. The Centerlock nut on my Porsche 991.1 GTS also takes an anti-seize paste as per Porsche and it gets torqued to 443 lbf.ft. then backed off and re-torqued to the same 443 lbf.ft.
I just removed some original BMW ( Beru) from a bmw e46. They hadn’t ever been out in 21 years. The car was well below the 90k miles for change so they were never changed during services. They came straight out. So the plating certainly worked
Wow! Just curious, what was the actual mileage (I know you said well below 90K)? Also, what brand spark-plugs? NGK or some other?
ALL of these comments are spectacular! A ton of info to answer any question one might have on the subject. The reward of an excellent presentation, hats off to you Sir!
Thank you! As I mentioned before in response to one of the comments, I made the video mostly because I was hoping to receive input on the subject from people with first-hand experience. Often I find that the comments deliver more value than the RUclips videos themselves.
Awesome! You have clearly broken out of being a 'Technician' and are now clearly a genuine 'Mechanic'.
I wish!
Fantastic information, especially if plugs are removed for inspection then reinstalled. I never use a torque wrench to reinstall plugs. They have a crush washer and and bring them up snug tight and don't moose them in.
Thank you!
Excellent analysis. Some people are allergic to Nickel, just a heads up. Other metals that can cause skin allergies are Cobalt, Chromium, and Zinc.
Good to know -- thanks for the comment! Some other chemicals to be careful with: ruclips.net/video/M8JH7UBYRPI/видео.html
weak
I will make this real clear for people abusing this subject, anti seize compound for spark plug was mainly designed for air cooled engines. All other engines use some oil.
When I apply anti-seize, I put a flash coating on the threads using a clean dry brush instead of one with a gob of anti-seize on it. The coating is so thin, it looks more like a spray-on coating.
Yep, I use a small tooth-brush I keep in a plastic bag for this purpose.
There are some people who should not be allowed to be a mechanic. Just like some people can not be a musician. I have been using anti-sieze for 50 plus years on spark plugs. It is for the next guy. Be sure to use nickel anti-seize not copper. Nickel has a higher operating temperature. Be sure to use it sparingly on the threads. Use your finger to work it into the thread evenly. Start One or two threads back from the electrode end the full length of the thread. This is a great video to educate people on the subject. Trial and error is the best teacher in the long run. If it works for you then don’t fix it. 50+years of experience doesn’t mean you know everything but it does increase your odds of success in this ever changing world.
Thank you for the feedback.
Champion Aerospace 2612 Spark Plug Thread Lubricant is an old aviation standby. If you think car parts are expensive try aircraft!
It's easy not to overtighten. I've NEVER done that in over forty years working on delicate motorcycle spark plugs let alone car plugs. Many "mechanics" who never worked on anything delicate or precise treat spark plugs like lug nuts. I've had to fix stuff they buggered but every stuck spark plug I dealt with was either corroded due to moisture intrusion or crossthreaded. None were stretched to failure.
I use Time-Serts for thread repair after grinding a SMALL notch in the rim. Install Time-Sert, drill hole centered on notch slightly smaller than a section of steel finishing nail, fill with JB Weld (takes very little) then drift a short (about 1/4") pin you cut from a finish nail. That pin cannot escape because the plug traps it. Old aircooled motorcycles require frequent plug swaps, much more often than cars and these have never had a customer comeback at the shop where my Vincent-restoring mentor taught me the trick. He'd been wrenching motorcycles since the 1950s. Both of us were USAF crew chiefs and I was also a jet engine mech.
I will have to order some!
I have been installing spark plugs for some 50 years and I have always applied anti-seize and never used a torque wrench. I screw the plugs in by hand until they are bottomed and then tightened them by one flat or 60 degrees and have never, ever had one strip or come loose. Do be aware that you should always ensure that you do not apply the anti seize compound any closer that the last three (3) threads on the spark plug as it can melt and flow down the plug with the potential to short it to ground.
I always use a very light coating of anti-seize, except when installing a plug in a cast iron head. And I don't tighten a plug to a torque value. I tighten the plug until the gasket just touches the head, then continue to tighten the plug until the resistance to tightening it rises abruptly (typically a 1/2 turn). I use the same procedure for tapered plugs (no gasket), but they only need 1/16 - 1/8 of a turn past finger tight. And I've never stripped a cylinder head or a plug.
I always get that feeling I should cut back the torque when using any kinda lube, thanks for confirming this! :D
Most torque specs are intended for use on clean and lubricated fasteners/threads.
Back in the late 70's, i had a spark plug seize in the head of my engine. It had been installed originally by myself, properly, dry and set on the washers. When it came time to replace, it was locked in place, and I managed to twist off the plug from the threads. The 4 banger ran, but sounded like an old time steam engine - chuf!- chuf!, chuf!. A local garage BROKE their easy-out trying to remove it. Last recourse was an engine rebuild shop that fixed the head. Used anti-seize after that. In those days, the plugs may not have had that plating on the threads, just bare steel.
I always use antiseize on spark plugs! Removing a cylinder head for repair is no fun and gets expensive!
I love your command of the English language. You’re a smart guy.
Ah, good old communication skills ... still work in progress, like most of my projects :)
GM issued a TSB warning of the use of anti- seize on spark plugs. It inhibits the transfer of heat to the cylinder head, causing the plug to be hotter and shortening its life. Best practice is to remove plugs and run a thread chaser and lube threads with engine oil at regular intervals. Anti- seize is for those who leave the plugs in for extended periods without removal.
Would you care to share the number of the GM TSB?
Also curious about that number
Can't say I've ever really had antiseize work as advertised for me, I'll usually use a few drops of motor oil on nice threads ,or ones that are a little worn I'll use some (moly) CV joint grease.
And I can't say I've ever had an issue on removing them the next time.
I always use a whisper of nickel anti-sieze on plug threads - it handles the heat. Regular is often junk and just doesn't hold up over time. How the heck people have snapped threads off is beyond me. In decades of wrenching, if I break something its a steel bolt in aluminum that was probably installed dry and lived in a salt environment for years. Saying a plug does not "require" anything brings some assumptions with it, like a minimum miles per year driving to get at a reasonable replacement schedule. For low miles drivers [like me], their advice might disappoint because time in service is what will matter for these coatings.
Well covered. What I was able to dig up on the Versachem B product was lithium grease/petroleum distillates with... copper, calcium oxide, graphite, with remainder [roughly 5%] as proprietary.
Yes, miles-in-service is key as far as corrosion is concerned. But even (in fact, especially) if the plugs are replaced often (unlikely these days), the idea of repeatedly installing a relatively hard steel shank (spark plug) in a relatively soft aluminum receiver (spark-plug hole) without lubrication makes me nervous. Thank you for the comment.
Can't tell you how many fasteners I've removed that felt close to snapping off or bringing the threads with them, numerous times they have. This is one of my primary reasons for disliking aluminum heads.
I started working on cars at 12 in my uncle's auto repair biz. That was in '65.
One of the 1st jobs I became proficient at was gaping & installing plugs; typically my uncle would take the hard, (AC) on installs. He usually removed them out, due to me having 12 yo arms. He'd put the plugs down on my end of the bench, I'd spec the car engine, gap 'em & we'd install 'em.
He worked on zero imports. By my mid 20's, I was a Toyota specialist, but worked on all imports. By 30, I had my uncle doing domestic AND foreign repair.
In my teens, I was building drag cars & racing; an older drag racing mentor was building a new A/Gas 65 Chevy II. His previous, a shoebox '64 was a 2 time national ET record holder for their class.
His new 14:1 302 SBC would not run at 3000+ RPM's. The local Chev dealership helped me w/ parts expense on my C/Gas '57 wagon.
An out of town dealership was a major sponsor of his '65, so he ran AC Delco, like I did.
There were no NGK's at parts stores, none, zero, zip. We rarely saw aluminum heads unless it was a fuel hemi or big $ BBC, (NOT in my teens, at all).
We tested AC plugs for 3 hrs. 50% failed to fire at +150psi.
I went to the local Honda dealer where a friend was an apprentice. I knew the 2 brothers-owners cause I made their weekend breakfasts at my sister's cafe, early in high school.
The apprentice & I had a mutual friend working on cars in AK. He'd said the only plug working reliably in -40⁰F, Fairbanks was NGK & I should try them in my SBC's.
We crossed AC to Champion to Autolite to get an NGK number close enough.
8 NGK's solved the problem.
Plugs have 2 coatings, zinc dichromate or black oxide, (IE Autolite). Black is NOT raw steel.
I learned about NevaSeize on plugs that Sat @ the Honda shop. My friend gave me some & said it made R&Ring plugs much easier, plus they'd damage a ton of M/C heads without it.
My mentor was military trained in electronics & liked the NevaSeize for a possibly improved electrical connection. (It is, afterall, powdered aluminum (silver ver) or powdered copper, (brown ver) in a oil suspension; make a superior heat sink compound I learned, (in my 50's!) We both liked the idea of easy to R&R plugs, plugs less thread damage/chance of cross threading.
By the late 80's plugs in alum was common place. I've done repeat work on multiple dozen's of cars & trucks in my life. NEVER did I experience plug or alum head damage. Neither have the mainly mechanics I've trained or know. How do I know?
In my machanic life I met exactly 2 pro mechanics who used NevaSeize. I taught the rest. If head or plug failure happen, some would have tracked me down to exact revenge.
Look at the example pic of potential plug damage; 1 image looks like complete rupture of the thread barrel. I've met guys who've ½ air impacted plugs in, on a dare, & THEY never ruptured a thread bsrrel.
If someone is blaiming NevaSeize on the thread barrel damage, they're talking out their arse.
As far as over tighening, a competent, pro mechanic will not, because they now what a PITA & expense), plug thread can be. No sane person would inflict that on themselves.
Therein lies the key point of NGK's communication. It is written by competent mechanics, then edited by corp attorneys & loss mitigation specialists. NGK cannot control who buys & installs their plugs, so they have to protect themselves from the idiots of the world who have no connection between their brains & arm muscles.
Continue using NevaSeize, you will not be doing yourself or customers wrong.
What you should add to every diag list for any rough running, unknown car is a compression test.
I never had a tune up, (in the old ages wheh they were a thing), come back for anything other than a failed component.
I weeded out the bad valves/rings BEFORE the tune up was done.
Guys used to say they could do it w/ a scope; never proved it, though.
I'd think a quick, engine hot compression test would still do for you what it did for me, removed the speculation & either guessing or much more diagnostics about hard part problems before spending customer $ on components. In my day, it was ignition, now it's sensors or control units. It's a well invested 10 minutes in YOUR rep as a pro mechanic.
GeoD
those plugs with crush washers: tighten until the washer is crushed, then stop. That doesn't change wether you use anti-seize or not. A torque wrench is not needed, but a bit of feel is.
I usually give it about another 1/16 of a turn after the washer is crushed, depending on how it feels.
I used Dupont Molykote P-74 anti seize, which is made for SP's. P-74 contains no metals. A very super light coating. No issues with NGK plugs.
Loctite and Champion also offer graphite-based anti-seize products (no metal), specifically advertised for use on spark-plug threads.
I really appreciate your analysis on aluminum cylinder heads and I highly recommend I always use anti-seize on spark plugs and very careful tighten them up like you said I agree with everything that you say you sound like a and talk like a very educated professors with metals and lubricants
Thank you for watching! I highly suggest you also explore the many excellent comments viewers were kind enough to provide in response to the video.
I put a extremely small amount on my sp threads and ran it through to coat the entire thread, then remove and let dry, then i would have a nice thin coating of anti-sieze to help stop corrosion and/or stubborn to remove plugs. Not on every engine I have, but on some :-D
I just use a small toothbrush to cover all threads BUT the one or two closest to the porcelain with a thin, even coat of anti-seize.
I've been in the automotive scene for more than 2 decades and still see antiseize on plugs and wheel bolts. It might be common knowledge, but a lot of folks don't have common sense and need to be educated or re-educated.
Many times, spark plugs going in without anti-seize feel like cross threading is happening. That's why I used anti-seize. Iridium plugs that have been in an engine for 120,000 miles on them, are often hard to get out with stripping head possible. Mechanics do a slow back and forth loosening of plugs in this case.
I use anti-seize on my NGK plugs. I don't use a torque wrench. On the box of the NGK plugs I buy, it gives instructions to turn 3/4 of a turn after the crush washer makes contact.
If I wasn't using anti-seize, I'd still follow the box instructions. I don't trust the clean torque value on old threads. You can feel when tightening replacement plugs, they don't all have the same feel. Some go in a little tighter from carbon fouling in the threads of the cylinder head, so you'll be under-torquing those using a torque wrench. If there's no instructions on the box, only then will I use a torque wrench and torque to spec (-20% if using anti-seize).
I've always used anti-seize, not knowing why it worked. I figured it kept fouling from working up the threads, which would result in a seized plug, then subsequent breakage or thread stripping. It also has been useful for hand-tightening since it lubricates. A reasonable torque on the spark plug or 1/8" turn past hand tight has worked well in 100's of plugs. I've never had one come loose or break off.
Honda automobile service manuals call for antiseize. I'm referring to the factory printed soft cover paper service manuals covering autos, 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, at a specific torque specification. All models had aluminum heads. That is how I roll.
They still do.
Thank you for this masterclass on this topic. I will be linking people to this video when they spread misinformation in comments on other videos.
I appreciate the feedback! I am glad you found the information in the video and the comments useful.
Every time that I used anti seize on my toyota tacoma 2tr-fe engine, the plugs were hard to remove. Have not used it since. Now thay come out like thay should. A friend used anti seize and took two hours to remove one spark plug.
Not all anti-seize compounds are created equal. Products intended for high-temperature applications contain more metal and are rated at over 2000 deg. F. Lesser-quality anti-seize products have lower max. operating temperatures and contain more grease, which can carbonize in high-temp applications and make plugs difficult to remove.
100% agree with OP. Only trouble I’ve ever had with plugs is when I’ve used anti seize. It’s a hard no for me - not worth the trouble.
I always dab a little on the threads. I build drag cars and we are constantly replacing spark plugs, in/out-in/out and so on. We use a hotter plug just to warm the motor/oil up then switch to a cold plug and pull it to the line, start it and make the run then shut down at the end and get towed back. When back the plugs get pulled to be read. Anti-seize goes a long way with preserving the thread integrity in the heads. Just do not over-tighten although I've cranked on quite a few 14mm thread plugs while indexing and NEVER broke one in 25+ years even with anti-seize. I've pulled threads in soft heads before.
Thank you for the comment! In your experience, does anti-seize affect the heat range of the plugs at all? Some mfgs claim it makes the plugs run hotter ...
@@Zerk_Ziegler No. However I do not use a lot and only every few times when I see that it needs some. Too much and it will start to drip into the cylinders.
@fastcars1173 10-4. I appreciate your input.
I had to replace the aluminium cyl head on my motor because 3 of the 6 NGK plugs without lubricant had seized in it, to such an extent I broke one of them trying to remove it, the ali picked up in the thread. I have always lubed spark plugs on installation and so far the only plug I have ever broken is the one in this head trying to remove it.
One interesting ,unusual but IMO very objective way of controlling the proper tightening of spark plugs is by measuring the thickness of the sealing washer . It’s found experimentally that for Denso plugs it must be 1.6mm after proper tightening . Also this method allow you to see if the spark plug has been tightened properly previous time . Also you can torque down your spark plugs dry as the manufacturers recommends . After that remove them ,apply anti seize and tight them back by turning on recommended by the manufacturer angle but for spark plugs which already been tighten at least once .It’s usually stated on the box . IMO anti seize make more difficult to read the proper heat range of the spark plugs which has been in use.
Interesting info regarding washer thickness. Do you recall the source?
@@Zerk_Ziegler ruclips.net/video/bfcprut_q-k/видео.htmlsi=YT9A9um23wPHJjps after 2:16 minute . Unfortunately is on Russian language. I will translate with pleasure some moments for you if you point me by the video timing!
@@Zerk_Ziegler posted the video , but RUclips deleted the link . If you didn’t received the notification with the link lets me know !
I'm calling BS on NGK. I tighten by crusing the crush washer, not by torque reading. I also lube all wheel studs due to the salt environment. I've broken off many seized lugs, but never pulled one in a lifetime (50+ years of wrenching) 1/2 turn after firm contact will not pull a spark plug in half. Maybe chinesium. I have been using anti-seize since reading a 2007 Toyota TSP asking dealers to remove the plugs from new engines and apply anti-seize. I owned the engine in question and the plugs to date are nearly identical. I also never use NGK plugs. I prefer to use Delco in GM and Denso in Toyotas, Motocraft in Ford. I notice that now the Denso plugs feature silver paint on the threads which is old-school anti-seize. I just installed a Denso oxygen sensor and applied Denso anti-seize that came with it. Same crush washer system.
I appreciate the comment!
That Toyota TSB you speak of is very interesting. Do you know its number?
My engine manual says 18Nm torque for the spark plugs. I can not imagine that they will overstretch even when lubricated with that low torque. I am in doubt if is possible to overstretch a spark plug made out of steel in aluminium treads.
Spark plug Einstein nice well documented video! So when will you come to my house and help a brother out 😂😂
If using anti-seize follow instructions on package of having plug bottom out and then no more than 1/4 turn addition. This will feel loose but only because anti-seize is so slippery. Also, use small wrench which isn't so easy to over torque with.
Here at NKG we are using less conventional metals that are softer and easier on our tooling with a bonus that the source material is very cheap. To combat complaints of our plugs literally twisting off at the base, because we made the threaded shells too thin, we have put together this information packet that masks build quality problems with carefully selected wording and use cases while simultaneously shifting the blame to the installer.
Tight is tight and we all know what it feels like as life-long mechanics until you give us a weaker metal and ask us when it is tight. That's when we twist them in two.
I use Autolite Platinum Spark Plug AP5125 and anti-seize on my 1992 F150 4.9 I6 never had a problem!
I always use anti sieze, and my internal torque wrench, never had an issue.
If you have been a mechanic any length of time you probably whont use a torque wrench when installing spark plugs
Yes, it takes time to develop a "calibrated elbow". Most folks don't get enough practice to get the correct feel, however.
Whoever broke those spark plugs must have tightened them like Hercules.
I'm surprised they did not strip the threads.
They dont need to be that tight with anti seize or not.
5 Olga-doogas tight = 75ft lbs torque 💪👍🤣🤷🏼♂️
GR8T stuff :O) I'm now a fan. Cheers from So.CA.USA 3rd House On the Left
Lol ... it's a small world, isn't it!
Super Presentation!!!
I have a great running 302,000 mile ‘07 Toy Yaris I’ve owned since nearly new.
I waited until 217,000 miles to change the original plugs…
It took quite a bit of force to free them…I was quite afraid they were going to strip!
Q. I’m curious as to how much of that friction was the threads vs seat friction?
And yea…I applied anti-seize and eased off on the torque on the new ones.
Bout time to change again.
From what I recall, when a fastener is tightened, about 50% of the torque is used to overcome head friction and 40% to overcome thread friction -- only about 10% of the applied torque goes to stretching the bolt and creating clamping force.
Hello
Should or would that -30% torque rule apply with any anti-seized steel bolts threading into aluminum?
Thanks
Great presentation!
Hello
Should or would that -30% torque rule apply with any anti-seized steel bolts threading into aluminum?
Thanks
Great presentation!
In my experience, yes. You don't want to strip the aluminum threads out.@@flyonbyya
@@Zerk_Ziegler
My only potential contention is the assertion that fasteners are designed to be torqued dry or lightly oiled, given its critical the proper application of a specified lubricant be applied to engine head studs/bolts, rod bolts and crank mains and other critical components.
ARP is the world leader in aerospace quality fasteners and explains via RUclips
why it’s critical that proper lube be employed.
Copy n paste the wording below to RUclips:
Why Use ARP Ultra-Torque Fastener Assembly Lubricant
if you ever have to repair damage spark plug thread. you ask yourself why didn't it have anti sieze
Great video. I have heard some say that copper based anti-seize is the best for preventing galvanic corrosion (even some manufacturers say this) and others say that it actually can make it worse if used with certain metal combinations. However when you look up the ingredients of the basic silver colored anti-seize maid by permatex, it has aluminum, copper and graphite. So it is combining two materials (aluminum and copper) that should be a problem and graphite is about as far away from zinc and aluminum as you can get. I don't understand how this isn't an issues? I always assumed zinc or nickel was in that anti-seize.
Can anyone explain why in the chart shown at 8:33 that it shows stainless (in the vertical column on the left) is safe to pair with aluminum (on the horizontal row at the top), but if you do the flip of that (aluminum in the left column with stainless in the top row), it shows as a galvanic corrosion risk?
I will be the thorn on the side. I never used anti seize. Well a few times but those that had that on them always caused a removal issue. I always chased the threads and thats it. No problems. To clarify, i worked only on mercedes vehicles and used bosch sp plugs.
All comments based on personal experience add value to this forum. Thank you for sharing.
My moms 1.6l ford escape has the galvanic corrosion on two of the four spark plugs. I was lucky to be able to remove 3 of them, the 4th one broke, now i have to deal with extraction. Definately not thrilled. I was even less thrilled when i double checked the owners manual, for reccomended spark pluv interval of 100k. My vehicle only has 70k. I am topping up antifreeze, but very minimal. System consumes about 12oz bottle of water every 45-60 days. I borescope every cylinder, and i am not sure what i am seeing. Definately reccomend removing all plugs, and put a pressure tester on the system overnight, hopefully (actually not hopefully 😂) i may find coolant intrusion in the combustion chambers of my two problem holes...
I find that 100K intervals may be fine for the plugs, but not so good for the threads they screw into. It's always a good idea to pull the plugs out, say every 30K, inspect, apply anti-seize, and reinstall.
When removing plugs, its best to crack it then do it back up then crack 1/8th then do it back up, slowly increased how far you undoo it each time untill the plug feels fairly free. Carbon can build up around the end creating a lip holding the plug in. You need to crack it off by working the plug. If you try just turning the plug straight out it can cut the thread out very badly or jam completely, as i think you found. The broken plug needs to be turned back IN on the first go at extraction, and soak it in throttle body cleaner to dissolve the carbon. There will be bits of ceramic plug in the cylinder and need careful and complete removal, airline vacuum recommended and DO NOT turn the motor AT ALL untill the cylinder is guaranteed clear, DO NOT BLOW AIR INTO THE CYLINDER as it could blow debris up the intake only to fall back later and blow the motor. When replacing plugs make sure you screw them all the way in by hand, if you have to use a spanner you may cross thread them if the threads were damaged removing the old ones, if that happens it's a big buck professional job, as it is with the broken plug your gonna need advance level mechanical know-how. The corrosion of the plugs is not unusual and unlikely indicates coolant in the cylinder. A difference in appearance of the electrodes with larg variation in colour and deposit would be, and possibly one piston having a cleaner looking top. A leak into a cylinder would get worse in a short time. Your beer can worth of water every 2 months is possibly a bad radiator cap or seal, or leaking heater tap. Look at all the pipes where rubber hoses conect for signs of corrosion or scale from dryed coolant, you wont actually see moisture with a leak that slow.
This is backyard engineering. The NGK sheet just said to not use antiseize on its coated spark plug threads. Debating this is just like debating the opinion of your old family doctor. Always go with the best authority available and not with your personal opinion.
I appreciate the comment. The purpose of the video was to explore the REASONING behind the manufacturer's recommendation. In short, since many folks are unaware of the need to reduce the torque when anti-seize is used, and over-torqueing a spark plug is, to put in mildly, highly undesirable, spark-plug manufacturers advise that the coated plugs be installed dry. But, in some cases, the coating on the threads just does not last long enough, and that's when problems begin. Generally speaking, there are many reasons why the "best authority available" provides one or another recommendation. Remember doctors, who prescribed highly addictive painkillers without hesitation? In my opinion, one should go through life at least TRYING to think for him/herself. Asking WHY is not a bad thing, last time I checked. The easiest thing in the world is to find a "safe" box and put yourself in it. What if your factory manual recommends the use of anti-seize on the plugs and the spark-plug manufacturer does not?
The coating does not come off, i have never ever had a coated plug be an issue.
Awesome video. Never thought about the galvanic corrosion issue. I ran across someone who said not use the aluminun antiseize on sparkplugs because it hardens up and becomes stuck do to heat. For this reason i use a high temp nickle antiseize. But now i wonder if nickle is a wise choice due to galvanic corrosion.
It is true that aluminum is more anodic than nickel. But, if you use good-quality nickel-based anti-seize, I don't think you should have any problems. Nickel-based anti-seize products generally have high temperature ratings, which means the stuff will stay put between the threads over time, blocking entry of electrolytic substances. No electrolyte = no corrosion. Just my $.02.
On the back of that comment, I suspect the anti seize compound on new O2 sensors is nickel. My experience is copper doesn't work but equally the compound may be aluminium or zinc but I think it looks more like nickel.
Bostitk and Loctite nickel anti seize are the only ones which have military NSNs.
Spark plugs are grounded through their threads. Conventional anti-seize is a poor conductor, and increases the resistance of the plug, thereby reducing the voltage at the electrodes. If you use anti-seize on spark plugs, which I do, be sure to use the special spark plug anti-seize made by Champion, Unison or ATS that maintains the good ground contact through the threads.
Not sure about the benefits of graphite-based anti-seize over metal-based products. Check out the video description for some numbers for perspective. Also, a good portion of thermal and electrical conduction occurs through the seat of the plug.
The list is in order of nobility, if you put any two metals together, the metal higher on the list will be the one that corrodes and potential rate of corrosion is greater the further apart they are on the list. Copper is better than nothing even though the alloy of the head would lose to the copper, its far less than to the iron of the spark due to mitigation of electrolyte by the copper past, that then gives basically 100% protection by there being no medium for electrons to transfer through. Zinc loses to both iron and alloy (the sacrificial anode) and the coating is applied thick enough to last the average duration a plug is in service.
As for torque, because of the exact reason you say "less friction" would cause over tightening, spark plugs have a tightening procedure! Depending on the seal face of the plug, flat, tapered, crush washer or flat washer, you turn the plug down by hand till firm then depending on the type of seal, you continue to tighten trough a specified number of degrees.
Excellent point about tightening through a specified number of degrees. Always the best way if the spec is available. In aerospace, some fasteners are tightened using the "two flats" method.
@@Zerk_Ziegler So many people ive worked with use the apprentice method... 1/4 turn past snap! Lol
Well, you don't just tighten every threaded fastener the same way willy-nilly -- gotta follow the spec :) Also, I really like your take on why copper anti-seize provides good corrosion protection in an alloy head even though aluminum is more reactive (less noble) than copper. @mrgoodman6620
I've never had trouble removing spark plugs I've installed! Torque applied? Simply my judgement as to how much is enough! Never had a loose spark plug either! It's called mechanical feel! Some of us have it! Yes I apply copper grease.
I agree to the difference between dry and lubricated torque, but the torque value tipycally is around 18 foot pound which es a very low value to break a spark plug, on top of that, Champion know about spark plugs because they make them, they make and recommend graphite based thread lubricant and I guess they take that in consideration, on the other hand it is a type of dry lubricant.
Thanks for putting this up.👍What you say about decreasing the torque by 30% or so makes a lot of sense. I changed the spark plugs in my daughter's car and one of them was corroded, and misfiring. Is there a way to clean the mild corrosion on the engine block around that spark plug?
If the area around the spark plug can be easily accessed, you could try removing the corrosion using WD40 and a fine Scotch Brite pad or 000 or 0000 steel wool. Just make sure the spark plug is threaded into the hole before you do this, so that the debris you generate does not end up inside the engine. Then clean the area with mineral spirits and wipe up with a paper towel or clean rag. Finally, use some compressed air (or something like a Metrovac Air Blaster) to blow any remaining crud out (don't forget eye protection). Also, you might find my video on spark-plug replacement helpful: ruclips.net/video/q2r0FmzXLI0/видео.html
@@Zerk_Ziegler Thank you, I checked out your other video about changing spark plugs - very informative. I like that you address spark plug corrosion in this video, not many do. My daughters car is a 2008 Mazda 3, so the spark plugs are very recessed, but I might give it a go. Thanks again!🙂
If the plugs are recessed, it is important to blow any debris out of the recessed areas. Otherwise, at least some of it may go into the hole the next time you remove the plug. Not the end of the world, as it's likely to be blown out of the exhaust. However, there is always a chance of scoring the cylinder walls and/or damaging the piston rings.
@@fredfred4086 from my experience... change the boots. silicone grease/oil will help, but mostly.. change the boots. misfires and corrosion usually suggests pooled water sitting in the hole, the boot gets wet, arcs internally, gets a carbon path... and once thats developed, its useless.
Important to lower torque when using anti-seize.
I don’t think the zinc acts as a sacrificial anode, zinc is also a lubricant. I have always used anti-seize and will continue to. Never ever used a torque wrench.
The lubricating property of anti-seize is another reason I use it -- much easier on the aluminum threads in the head. And you are right -- if no electrolytic substance is introduced between the threads, no electrochemical reaction occurs. That's why copper-based anti-seize (aluminum is more reactive than copper) is also effective. But, if there IS some gap to receive the "electrolyte", zinc is your best best.
Well, I have never in my life….and that covers a total of 71 1/2 years now and for ASE master certificates… used a torque wrench to tighten a spark plug. I gently tighten using my hand and wrist choked up on the top of the ratchet, so that I am incapable of overtorquing the plug. I’ve never had one come loose, and that spans engines from Farmall tractors to race cars. Now perhaps in recent years, it has become popular to use a torque wrench for spark plugs, and I can definitely see how you could over torque a plug, if you have anti-sieze compound on the threads, and you use the same torque value.
Thank you for the comment!
I do not recommend using anti seize on spark plugs. I used anti seize on my 1997 BMW R1100RT motorcycle and it resulted in an expensive repair. After a few thousand miles the spark plug loosened up and caused the Motronic ignition system to fail when the spark plug lost its ground. The repair manual warns about the need to maintain the ground when testing for spark..
Anti-seize acts like a lubricant, you have to reduce the torque about 20 percent or run the risk of breaking the plug, bolt, nut, etc. or overthighting.
I don't find any need to use anti-seize in cast iron heads but I do use a light coating in aluminum head.
Not sure how anybody can get a torque wrench into some of these tight areas, I've never used a torque wrench but I will say they only need to be tight enough to seal and stay put. Not sure why people over torque them, avoid doing that!
I advise against using copper based anti-sieze in aluminum heads due to incompatability between aluminum and copper.
But how much effort are you putting on tightening. You can either use a torque spanner if you feel that necessary or tighten until you feel the sealing washer start to pull up. This is no worse a problem than tightening bolts into aluminium. I would suggest the problem will only result if you do not service at required intervals or you are in a marine environment which will have its own servicing time an procedures.
I would use a copper-based anti-seize on spark plug threads for the improved electrical conductivity to maintain the ground strap electrode at zero potential.
What does that table say about this scenario? I put some cheap blue anodized valve caps on my wheels. 6 months later I went to check my tire pressure and they were all seized up and had a white ring at the base of the cap. I had to resort to vertical cuts with a dremel, and pry them off. All the threads on the valve stem were packed with a dry caked up powder
If the cap is made of aluminum, and the threads of the valve stem are brass, the aluminum cap will corrode. The white powder you see is oxidized aluminum.
Anti seize on spark plugs is just a bad idea in general. I've been a mechanic for the last 10 years or so. I used to actually use anti-seize on certain engines with aluminum heads. But the problem I started running into, I would torque the plugs to spec, plus a couple extra percent. However, the intense vibrations from a running engine, often the plugs would lose torque and slowly loosen up. Especially on some Ford's, I started to notice when the cars would come back, the plugs would not even be hand tight anymore, you could reach in and spin them out by hand. I recommend changing plugs every 50k miles at the most, regardless if the service schedule says they are good for 100k or whatever. If you just change them more often, it's less likely they will become seized in the holes over time.
Question: do you think the washer was crushed completely when you torqued the plugs to spec? In the past, I noticed that the plugs would be more likely to loosen if it wasn't. I suspect vibration and heat cycles cause a washer that hasn't been fully compressed to sag eventually, creating a loss in preload. My feeling is that if the washer were fully crushed, and then the specified torque applied, plugs wouldn't back out.
I guess I was lucky? I have a 2001 GMC Yukon that has over 300000 miles on it, the plugs were original! Why it still ran I don't know??? I was able to remove them, it wasn't that hard I was afraid I would snap a few off in the aluminum heads, the only difficulty was the rear plug locations, they were definitely worn down over twice the gap they should have had. I replaced them with IRadium plugs with a dab of anti seize. I think I'll be good for a while now. If you wonder why I am spending time and money on a 21 Year old with over 300k on it? It has absolutely no rust and the engine runs fine. I use it for long trips 3000 miles regularly, I think the highway mileage is what kept it running so long. And I don't beat on it like too many people do to their vehicles today.😮 Treat it like a lady and she will treat you right.
Thank you for posting this comment. I think you hit the nail on the head as far the benefits of long trips are concerned. To have galvanic corrosion between two dissimilar metals, electrolyte is required. It is my guess that by warming the engine up thoroughly during long trips, acids that are generated during the combustion process and pushed into the interstitial space between the threads of the plugs and the head are burned away. Minimizing the amount of electrolyte minimizes corrosion. Generally speaking, long trips and relatively gentle use are key for engine longevity. But, it's not a bad idea to "get on it" once in a while to blow the carbon out of the combustion chamber :)
Excellent analysis! thanks!
My 2011 Ranger XLT Supercab 2.3 4 cylinder Duratec has 196,000 miles. I bought it at 60,000 miles. I’ve never replaced the spark plugs. Aluminum block and head. Any advice on removing the old plugs?
There are a few related comments, below. The main thing is to take it slow and easy. If you are patient, a good penetrant will help, with some luck. Also, check out Ford's TSB 08-1-9.
My advice: once you crack a plug free and start backing it out, if you feel any unnatural resistance don’t try to power through it - run the plug back in and then try backing it out again. It should make more progress before binding up again. Repeat until the plug is free.
Anti Sieze on any spark plug in aluminum heads for me. Been using it for 50 years, and will continue.
You bring up an interesting point, I just changed My spark plugs, My recommendation for torque was 15-20FT LB
I lightly coated all the threads into the cylinder block.
Question, am I right in doing so?
Thank You
Did the recommendation also specify the use of anti-seize with the supplied torque value? Some do and others don't. Lubricating the threads significantly reduces the coefficient of friction, so if the recommendation was intended for dry, clean threads, it is possible to over-torque the plug. When using a dry-torque recommendation, I reduce the torque by 30% when installing the plugs into an aluminum head. After using the torque wrench, I check that the plugs are snug in the head using feel (no gorilla strength, god forbid).
@@Zerk_Ziegler Thank You for the quick response.
I just got back from removing the anti-seize.
The more I thought about it, the more I realized that I might be over-thinking this project.
No doubt, that there is some residual left on the threads in the head, but I backed out twice to clean the plug.
I still think that you should use anti-seize, due in part to the mechanics that are stuck with the very challenging "do or don't" scenario repair.
Have a Great Weekend,
USN(RET)
For sure there is some still left. The are two potential problems with using anti-seize on a spark plug: (1) over-torqueing the plug and (2) contaminating the electrode. If you apply anti-seize with care and use proper torque, you should have no issues.@@FoolsAmongUs
@@Zerk_Ziegler One other question if you would, I have tapered plugs, the specs show 10-15 with anti-seize, and 15-20 without. However, another Mechanic said he would just hand tighten them, what would you recommend?
@@FoolsAmongUs I would torque to the low end of the spec (say 10 lb-ft with anti-seize) and then would try to hand-tighten further just a little, making sure NOT to overtighten.
I love the great in depth, thanks
Show me plugs that aren't plated.
Interesting point. Plugs having a black oxide finish are technically not considered plated. ACDelco 41-606 is an example. However, it is true that black oxide does resist corrosion.
Would Molybdenum disulfide paste be safe and effective?
According to NGK, the optimal firing-end temperature of a spark plug is approximately 500°C (932°F) to 800°C (1472°F). Even though some heads may be EXPOSED TO exhaust temperatures above 1400°F , the temperature of the alloy itself is much lower than that. There ARE Moly-based anti-seize products advertised for use on spark-plug threads. They are generally rated for around 800°F. One brand of Moly-based anti-seize, advertised online, claims that "this product has excellent conductive properties which allow use on spark plug threads exposed to MODERATE temperature." Another manufacturer states that "since this compound contains MoS2, which at higher temperature conditions (1000°F and above) may INDUCE CORROSION OF FASTENER OR CONTIGUOUS METALS ... its use at higher temperatures should be avoided." Therefore, buyer beware. The zinc-based anti-seize I use is rated for 2450°F -- there is no kill like overkill, as they say :)
@@Zerk_Ziegler
Wow! Nice. Thanks for the reply and info.
I appreciate the comments!
Looks like when you apply antisieze, the concern will be the torque being applied during installation. Do you have an idea of how much torque (range) will break a spark plug?
It would be interesting to do a bench test to find out. Also, I wonder if the plug will break before the threads in the aluminum head strip out. My go-to method for installing plugs with anti-seize on the threads is to back the torque off 30% from the middle value of the recommended range and then check if the plug can be CAREFULLY hand-tightened a little further, just in case it's a bit loose in the head.
Had to turn the volume way up to watch this video!
I wonder if others are encountering the same issue? Please comment.
LOCTITE LB 8044 ZN Zinc Anti-Seize
part # 233507
This is one of the only zinc anti-seize I can find.
Would this be high on your list for spark plugs?
If yes or no…pls let me know why
Would it be temp tolerant for plugs?
If not this composition…then what and why?
Much thanks!!
This is a fine product, but it is more of a general-purpose anti-seize, rated for a max temp. of 750 deg. F. I would suggest something with a higher temperature rating when it comes to spark plugs. Here is the link for Never Seez: www.amazon.com/Mariners-Choice-Anti-Seize-mariners-choice/dp/B0068UJ2H8. Aluminum-based products, like BustApart, also work great.
On sparkplugs I only use graphitepowder.
Interesting. Both Champion and Loctite offer graphite-based (metal-free) anti-seize, which they specifically recommend for use on spark plugs. Wouldn't powder be more difficult to apply?
No, You just pour it on and press it into the threads with a finger - You can give the threads a bit of very thin oil to make the powder more sticky @@Zerk_Ziegler
You do have to be careful using anti seize with copper on aluminum parts, especially on boats/stern drives/outboards, especially in salt water.
It is true that aluminum is more reactive than copper, so I personally try to use zinc-based anti-seize whenever possible. Marine applications are some of the most challenging ones for sure.
@@Zerk_Ziegler For sure, and salt water is a great conductor, makes for a nice battery/galvanic reaction
Salt water marine mechanic here since 1979.
I use Permitex aluminum zinc silver based antiseize as you warn.
We had copper head gaskets on older iron inboards .
But aluminum outdrives with stainless propellers sizzle like Alka seltzer in some big marina with shore power leakage at slips .
Mercathode anode cathode is a must .
I only use NGK on marine and motorcycle since the 70s .
Beware of counterfeit NGK iridium spark plugs now.
Torque could not use on greased fread
I have a question
I replaced NgK plugs on a Gen3 Prius
I applied I light coating of Mobil 1 oil to the threads
I did not use a torque wrench
But i was careful not to over tighten using my best guess
Should I have concerns?
Was applying oil a bad move?
In your opinion should I pull the plugs and do a do-over?
Thanks in advance!
Oil is not really suitable for high-temperature applications such as this (see comments, below, concerning the use of molybdenum disulfide paste). I think it's best to pull the plugs, clean off the oil using carb cleaner, and apply a little high-quality anti-seize to the threads without getting any on the ground strap or the center electrode. If you have good feel, you don't have to use a torque wrench. Also, spark-plug manufacturers provide charts, specifying fractions-of-a-turn tightening specs for particular sizes and types of plugs. Note that angle-wise tightening specs are different for new and used plugs that have crush washers. If you pull the plugs and reinstall, they are "used".
@@Zerk_Ziegler
I agree, I was already leaning towards this.
I appreciate your second opinion
I’m probably the only Prius owner you’ll meet who has driven it at its governed max speed of 124mph! lol
I regularly drive the interstate at 90-105
Somehow I feel driving it hard is better for the hybrid engine, less thermal cycles….
It just stays hot!
License and registration, please ... Bad jokes aside, internal-combustion engines certainly last longer when they are properly warmed up. They also benefit from occasional high-RPM use, as this helps to blow the carbon out of the combustion chamber. However, sustained high-speed, full-throttle operation does increase stress and corresponding wear on all drivetrain components. As for driving habits to make my daily ride last, I would try to minimize shorts trips (under 10 miles), accelerate hard once in a while (no, not from EVERY stop light), and take it easy on the pedals the rest of the time. Your car and your wallet will thank you.
Last question…
I’m seeming to experiencing a bit of difficulty sourcing zinc anti.
Really don’t trust eBay sellers…AT ALL!
What zinc formulation/composition do you suggest?
Around 4oz is plenty for me.
Never-Seez Mariner's Choice has always worked great for me. According to the manufacturer, it's effective up to 2450 deg. F.
Anti-seize makes it easy to damage threads on cylinder heads. Ironically most people apply anti-seize to avoid damage. Older vehicles like 1960s Volkswagens had stronger aluminum heads and didn't have thread problems on heads.
i use just a dab I have seen too many people just smother the threads with anti-seize, dielectric or just plan grease .to the point of rediculesness covering even the electrodes. than wondering why the plugs are fouling, almost the same as plugs v patches a few years back they tell you not to plug but patches don't galvanize like they used to since doing away with lighting I have used plugs for over 30 years, and they work. Unlike taking down a tire going through all the steps checking re checking only to have that same tire go flat. Two feet from the shop
How would one know or be sure its "30%" less specified torque? Isn't this number dependant on the amount of anti seize a person uses on the plug?
The interstitial space between the shank and the receiver of any threaded connection is quite small. It takes very little lubricant to produce an even coat between the threads. Applying more lubricant will not change the friction equation -- the lubricant will simply be squeezed out. But, overlubricating the threads is a bad thing, since contaminating either end of a spark plug with anti-seize is likely to cause misfires. Instead of relying on the the 30% rule of thumb, one can tighten the plugs using a specified number of turns. Various spark-plug manufactures provide these specs for their products.
@@Zerk_Ziegler @Zerk_Ziegler Thanks for the video and answering my question Zerk!