Excellent interview. Very informative. Thank you Mr. Ortega for your thorough and unbiased information. I know this video was made years ago, but it is still very useful today if not even more. I appreciate you sharing this knowledge.
Your interviews are probably THE best there are. You let your subject finish their thoughts, you ask with open curiouslity, and you are coming from outside of the US, a valuable view. And Tony is likely THE best subject no matter who interviews him. He’s not manipulating people’s emotions, he lets you finish your thoughts, he is researched… very nice.
I previously stated the President had made negative comments about Scientology, but could not locate a 2016 interview citation. Today, a Newsweek quote regarding a potential new IRS head did confirm those feelings: "Trump told Lynne Patton - a regional head at the Department of Housing and Urban Development - that the Church of Scientology should lose its status as a religion, and the tax exemption that comes with it..."
Brilliant interview. Tony Ortega is always great to listen to and knows his subject really well. Pity about the audio issues Tony had but this was still really good.
We ex Scientologists just owe Tony so much, for him taking the years to get so deep into nutty Scientology. Just a brilliant interview, Nikita's questions and understanding and "exterior" view of USA and Scientology, just a totally enjoyable interview, and I've unfortunately been all over Scientology since 1975 when I joined the damned cult, etc, etc. The reference to Kurt Anderson's article, Tony mentions, so apropos, worthy of reading for us ex Scientologists to get a good cultural take on how we "fit in" 58:23 .: www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/how-america-lost-its-mind/534231/ Chuck Beatty ex Scientology staff trainer, etc, etc, 1975-2003
I’ve just become interested with Scientology and all the activity around it. I’ve never met a Scientologist or even really heard much about Scientology before a few weeks ago. But after gathering a lot of background I am curious how a regular person in Scientology lives? One of the issues I believe kept ppl in Scientology was how often negative or one sided stories (as true as they may be) about Scientology kept ppl in Scientology or moved them closer to Scientology. Because those negative or sensational stories the media likes to cover (again true as they may be) didn’t exactly represent the experience most ppl had in Scientology. Is that true? Most Scientologists appear very rational, high performing ppl to me. So I can easily see how Scientologists surrounded by a bunch of other highly functioning Scientologists would take offense to being called cultists or get angry having only the most controversial aspects of Scientology covered in the news, especially since the Xenon stuff doesn’t ever get talked about or exposed to Scientologists until OT3.
@@kgmv4798 Sea Org staff of the upper totem pole staff hierarchy get 50-100 dollars a week "allowance" and live in communal apartment building, communal dining and uniforms provided. Some of the Sea Org staff have dentists and when I was in, Sea Org staff per the IRS are 'religious workers' per tax category which is sub/below poverty, and thus we would utilize social health to avoid our "church" having to foot our health bills. IN my Sea Org years, 1975 to 2003, schedule was 9am to 11:30pm, which is roughly 14 hours work, 9-10 hours sleep and meals time. Half of Sunday morning we did cleaning and laundry of our apartments/living spaces. Every two weeks, if a Sea Org member's production is high and they've committed no dire transgressions or mistakes, they are allowed a day off, LOL. So it is very strict living, no time off, and allowance money wise is meager and not always delivered some many weeks you get less than your 50-100 cut. Next category of staff, are the next lower echelon, which is the city level "church" staff who are paid horribly, just ridiculously horrible allowances which are way more likely to be less than 50 bucks a week. They too have to live communally in houses near to the "church" in the city they are in. Their hours of staff duty is depending on a couple of factors. Some have to "moonlight" and do extra work on regular jobs, to make ends meet. Their lives are so dire that a huge huge number of the city "church" staff quit. All Scientology "organization" hierarchy units are overpopulated, so much so, they are truly unviable, too Indians and the "orgs" ought to be way way less staffed, but Scientology over mans up their "orgs." Next category are the regular "parishioners" who are just members, who come and do "services" which they have to pay for, service by service. Regular parishioners/members have whatever regular lives they have. Because Scientology has such intense membership rules which can lead to being kicked out of Scientology, this for that reason presses members to quite often go to work for other Scientologists and into Scientologist led companies. Scientologists who run their own companies are kept on a sort of leash by Scientology's "front" groups, particularly the "WISE" (World Institute of Scientology Enterprises) front group which has report lines into the Sea Org Scientology management and Sea Org Scientology managers oversee and determine and hold the leash and hold the whip over all Scientologists in terms of them being excommunicated or not. Because Scientology has such draconian excommunication rules, Scientologists have to think twice about just blandly violating the Scientology voluminous and picky rules for the members. Members, even though they are allowed normal lives, are very much under the gun by the Scientology's staffs of Scientology "orgs" or the Sea Org managers, who can crack the whip on any Scientologist violation of their very invasive rules. So creature comfort wise, the Sea Org top totem pole staff do get perks and with the exception of the top top managers of Sea Org who were hated by the top top leader who had them all in a semi staff prison called the "Hole", other top echelon Sea Org staff have okay food, okay apartments, okay showers, okay uniforms. Staff in the city "orgs" have things slightly harder, due to not making enough income to live normally. Scientology staff live is very much below poverty and "religious worker" lifestyle. Scientology regular members, are just as varied as normal lifestyle and creature comforts as typical middle to upper middle class citizens in the US. Rich Scientologists and celebrity Scientologists, have their improved creature comforts as any rich or celebrity status US citizens do. ----------------------- Schedule for Scientology participation, depends on a few things. Scientology isn't just a Sunday 1-2 hour participating "church." Scientology wants you coming into the church at least 12 1/2 to 25 hours weekly! What rich Scientologists do, is they hold off doing this weekly, and save up and come to Clearwater to do a month of intense Scientology "services" all day, for two to 4 weeks, and "get a lot done" on the Scientology syllabus (The Bridge to Total Freedom). But in the city "orgs" ("churches") this comes out to be more hodgepodge and city Scientologists get to get away with not putting in their 12 1/2 to 25 hours weekly so much. I was in the administrative bureaucracy rules part of the movement in my 27 years in the cult. Chuck Beatty ex Team Xenu Sea Org 1975 to 2003
Tony Ortega, I know this is from September 2017, but you said Marty Rathbon & his wife had a winning case. However, Marty also went thru auditing before becoming a top “dog” of Scientology. They either offered them a settlement & they took it OR they sent him copies of his auditing sessions outlining his “crimes” from when he was a pre-clear which, I’m sure Marty didn’t want that information introduced in court.
People alive, who have possibly some of the final weeks of Hubbard's life to tell insider details, are Pat Broeker and Ray Mitoff, both alive. Pat is out of the movement, and hasn't wished to be interviewed or contacted. Ray Mitoff is inside the movement was the final Senior Case Supervisor International. Both those men, I hope they someday do reveal their final interactions with Hubbard. Ray more so that Pat, as Ray will be about the "best" theoretical Scientologist alive, if Ray has his head on straight and can talk in detail. Pat was the main speaker at the LRH funeral event, and Pat held up the Hubbard quack-therapy session paperwork page which is in Hubbard's handwriting, and the page Pat held up for the camera has an ancient date written on it. Pat would be able to describe the significance of that ancient date. That is what I'm interested in hearing. Ray I believe has read, and understands, Hubbard's final "case" paperwork, and Ray I hope lives long enough to someday go public and relay in detail Hubbard's final "case" state of mind efforts, as delusional as these Hubbard mental final explorations were, I would like to hear from Pat and Ray, what those final final explorations (of what is clearly delusional stuff) nonetheless were. Chuck Beatty ex Scientology nutter (I was mainly administrative rules and regulations expert, but I know the damnable Hubbard delusional quackery as good as anyone, 1975-2003)
I keep hearing : Did Marty settle & make an agreement to go back to work for COB making slick vids busting balls of the Usual Suspects who are publically critical of Scientology? A group he himself was part of until recently? What I hadn't heard until Tony mentioned it in this vid is WHY DID MONIQUE RATHBUN fire her lawyers who were working on contingency (for free unless you win a jury award or settle) then drop the lawsuit, which was about HER being harassed by The Church of Scientology even though she had never been a member of the Church, to me that is the most curious story in all of this,,,, she had everything to gain by going forward w/the lawsuit against Scientology. Someone for some reason convinced her to drop the suit. I'd LOVE to know who and why! Great work Tony and channels like this who give a platform to Tony and other like minded individuals going after the big boys, that takes ginormous cajones! ;)
Please talk about Melanie Safkas' involvement in Scientology. Remember Melanie? She was a big star back in the early 70s. Got her start playing at the 1969 Woodstock festival.
I did not know Melanie was involved in Scientology. I love her song Lay Down ( Candles In The Rain ) such a beautiful song. Anyhow, as you are saying, I would like to know about her involvement. Also, the extent of it. It is a different experience for those who dabble in it & those who commit to it in it's entirety.
Marty Rathbun should be ashamed of himself. He’s betrayed all the other survivors ( and escapees) of Scientology, and his attorneys who worked diligently to help him.
It is interesting that the discussion never extends as far as to mention the possibility that Msrty could be threatened with his life or that of someone else.(reference the existence of kakhan status and its implications).
Hi Happy. Well the way I see it is that Marty Ragbun NEVER had integrity, even when he left. Why? Because look at the process. He was number 2, and was doing bad things to others. Now he himself gets locked up, what he did to others is now done to him. He can't handle that so takes off. See where I'm going?
I can’t believe nobody has used this analogy, have you ever been in a bad relationship or been cheated on and had your heart broken. It can take years to get over that and sometimes you take them back fully knowing it’s wrong.now imagine losing your entire family and your friends and your lifestyle. Bless those that are strong enough to stay away.... Fuck Rathbum
I agree it was a good video Jim. Great pity about the audio - it was driving me nuts at times too and I suspect I missed some interesting points because of it.
Agree - I had to back up and re-listen to a bunch of things Tony said (at first I thought he was saying he was pushed into appearing in "Going Clear" instead of privileged!). However, the problem was on Tony's side (though the maker of the video should probably learn to clean up poor audio better). Tony needs a real microphone 🎤 and some seriously better lighting. I know it's "The Underground Bunker", but he looks like he's trapped in the corner of a cell! If I could afford it, I'd send him a backdrop, a mic, and some basic lighting equipment - could probably get it done for $250 or less. He deserves to look and sound better for posterity, especially after all the great work he has done! Also, I hope he's well and it's just the lighting - he looks a bit ill... and I feel bad pointing it out, but what is that white spot on his cheek?
Just to clarify something maybe. There is much made about Scientology's doctrine of reincarnation, and Tony points this out to be a major source of the weak family bonds in this "church". BUT a very similar belief is foundational in Hinduism including (some) Buddhism and Jainism, and as we know, the family structure in these cultures is VERY strong. Hindus can playfully speculate about their child's life in a previous incarnation, as possibly being their Grandparent OR friend or even lover. The difference is that included in Hindu teachings there is a great REVERENCE for these family roles, in other words, being a mother to a child is considered a sacred duty to be carried out with all the love, joy and worry that comes with it. To NOT properly play that role with all of your heart, is unthinkable. It would be a fail... like breaking character in the middle of your scene on stage. Along with identifying with the obvious roles we naturally fall into, we must cultivate the knowledge of the spirit that exists beyond these roles. That allows us to experience our life as not limited to just these roles, since everything eventually comes to an end. This "death" of identity is witnessed in installments for every rite of passage a child passes through growing into adulthood. This subtly detached attitude can allow for a more healthy acceptance of change and growth. I see that LRH has weaponized these concepts, and adapted them to suit his need to enslave his followers by downplaying any human social or biological role that interferes with the servile role HE prefers.
Well said. And yes it is a very common practice throughout the world to believe in reincarnation. As you say, the big difference is how it is applied to our daily lives and the lives of our loved ones. Even the concept of life on other planets is being seriously studied by many a very learned scientist these days, with some very convincing results. There are many cases of children (mostly) knowing things of about people who were alive before their own time. An example is the boy who had complete knowledge of the WWII fighter pilot right up to his full name, the no.s on his aircraft carrier and the moment he crashed to his death. But to twist beliefs or opinions into a harmful cult is another whole bag of rocks. I think his narcissism and delusions of grandeur fueled his writing abilities and got the best of him
The dysfunction within traditional Hinduism comes from the polarization of family bonds, by instilling a family co-dependence which is the polar opposite of that which Scientology practices. This acts for Hindus as a strait jacket on family members and opens up the way for systemic domestic abuse, as family members are stuck to their families thanks to this family polarity their religion has created. Both polarities, whether it's no mortal family or co-dependence on your mortal family, is inspired by the same false belief system. Systemic abuses are created within the traditional Hindu families due to this family polarity. A lot of people such as yourself, don't see a difference between love and co-dependence, to you co-dependence IS love. Study the traditional Hindu family and you'll learn there's been just as much control and abuse within it as within the society of Scientology. For goodness sake, this family polarization enables the caste system, a societal straight jacket. If you believe in a false belief system, you're going to swing to one polar opposite or the other.
A Jay I'm trying to glean something intelligible from your post. let's see if I got anything right. Hindu family life is crap, and Scientology' offers freedom from family structures by destroying them. Love within the family unit is basically false love and oppressive. also... I don't know what love is, but Scientology can teach me what love is. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you sound like a Scientology troll to me. Nice try.
Yes it went completely over your head. Don't you know what polarization and co-dependence means? If you did you'd know I was ragging on Scientology lol. I don't think I've ever said a good thing about Scientology. How about you read again, more slowly.... Maybe with a dictionary in hand.
A Jay.... OK, I take back the troll comment after reading again more slowly. I wasn't holding the idea of Hindu family life as some ultimate perfection I was making a specific comment about blaming the "Thetan" concept as the cause of child abuse due to disregarding family roles, and flattening them to "we are ALL deck hands on the ship of Scientology which will save the world". Growing up in a family is challenging regardless of culture. Hindu, Jew, Christian, Muslim all have their issues. CoS is the destruction of all family systems, replacing it with something else that never lets you grow up and take charge of your life. I don't think they can even be compared.
They were harassing Marty’s wife (who was never a Scientologist) and their baby. You just want your family to be safe. I’m not thrilled with his decision but I think I do understand it a little. If he didn’t have his wife and child to protect who knows what he would’ve done. It’s very sad.
I finally got to the end - I've been watching when I can over the last day or so. Great information! I always learn something new from Tony Ortega. I thought the questions were very good, especially to get an overview of the subject. I would definitely recommend this video for people who are just learning about $cientology from Leah Remini's show! One thing, though. What is up with the end?! Why didn't you cut the video after the main conversation ended ("Thank you for having me on again, man," was a good ending!) and Tony's audio cut out completely? I'm so curious about what he was saying after that, I wish I could read lips! He's running his hand though his hair, he seems to be laughing... it just goes on and on until it finally cuts out. Did you have a reason for leaving it that way? I'm curious! Anyway, it was a great video - thanks for doing it!
This is a great interview! I really enjoy following Tony's posts on the Leah Remini show Facebook group. When you talked about the former Soviet Union I was really trying to think of a Yakov Smirnoff style joke to fit with Scientology.
Hearing Tony talk about the transition from Dianetics to Scientology, his explanation of the "fixes" reminds me of the Jehovah's Witnesses, who told me on my doorstep that their failures to predict the end of the world on very specific days was due to a "progressive revelation." They felt just as confident about predicting the end of the world in the 1970s as they do with whatever their story is today.
This whole drama has to come to a head very soon....so many cracks in the dam....if only Tommy Davis kept his mouth shut at Tom Cruise's wedding,,,,he lit more than a fire under Leah, and this woman has the attention of all daytime tv viewers as well as others with the A&E and 20/20....shit is lit
I am really enjoying to content of this interview but to audio on key points and people Tony is mentioning is just terrible! I don't know if it was an internet issue, conference software issue, etc but just disappointed that I can't hear key information that I haven't heard before. Hope you can improve or clean up and repost. Just an observation, it seems when Tony leans into his computer is when his audio gets distorted.
I was always very curious about Marty and why he did what he did, or is still doing. Instead now I just know the he has zero credibility on both sides. His mentality should be questioned.
47:00 IRS harrassment campaign against IRS official, Rathbun was open about. In the 1991 they owed more than a billion USD in taxes (they never paid since 1967 when they had lost tax excempt status). - Ortega says that information is from "Going Clear".
VA got out? WOW great. I remember her as DCO Conts, saw her at Flag in the Ft Harrison. Most that I knew back then I have no idea what happened to them.
Does Miscavige really think that their comments to a program of any kind will change anyones opinion of him? How disillusioned is he. He must not be very bright.
I'm puzzled as to why people who join scientology see any correlation or relationship to religion as it is understood in this society. Or is that a factor? There is no deity (not counting zenu) no worship, no praying, no salvation, no redemption for sins, the only "afterlife" is reincarnation. There doesn't even seem to be a focus on moral principles except adhering to the rules of the organization. In the broadest sense it might be a philosophy. But that's not religion. Additionally, how do they propose to "clear" the planet and what is the end result if that even could be accomplished. This organization has been active for decades and there has been nothing achieved so far except amassing a tremendous amount of money and properties.
1) Hubbard was a (maybe intuitive) genius about USING AND LEVERAGING POWER. A genuis to establish dominance over other people - be it with charisma, or with bullying. - I heard in interviews that young Sea Org members or new wealthy recruits were "surprised" with sessions with the e-meter, with a lot of very personal and intruding questions and they FELT they could not lie. And it is very much the nature of homo sapiens to ANSWER a QUESTION if it is directly adressed to them (accepting also the framing that they "are obliged" to that politeness). In sales technique there is the insight: The person that aks, controls the conversation (the person can steer in the desired direction and also influence the answers they are getting and the mood that is established. Getting the "upper hand" so that the clients can be convinced to buy / sign the contract. Anyway: the novices FELT they were FORCED to answer truthfully and could not even hold back (unless they were willing to end their journey into Scientology or Sea Org right away - and refusing to comply with Sea Org "initiation" procedures once you "signed" the contract, can mean major trouble, shunning by the cult and the loss of your family and friends if they are in the cult). WHO has the AUTHORITY to hold back information (and evade being EXPOSED and / or held accountable), and WHO MUST TELL EVERYTHING and cannot hold on to privacy - that establishes a POWER DYNAMIC. And that dynamic is established VERY EARLY ON in Scientology (and also in Multi Level Marketing if they are aggressive). I read a story where adults remember that they as young children lied for the first time to their parents or withheld information - and got away with it. And realized for the first time that the parents are NOT those all-knowing, omnipotent beings. The kids realized their OWN sovereignity - a little persons with not much power - but there was something they did have going for them. They COULD be secretive, they could hide things - for fun, for feeling INDEPENDENT, or to protect themselves from punishment. People in North Korea also are taught (and many believe it) that the "Dear Leader" can read their thoughts. The issue also comes up in mythology. The mysterious "during night only" spouse (don't look at me Psyche, or don't ask me for my name, or I'll have to leave). The one room you must never, ever enter, or the forbidden fruit (of knowledge of good and evil) in Garden Eden. Of course the secret MUST be unveiled, the taboo MUST be violated - for the sake of development - myths, legends, and old fairy tales are timeless narrations of human psychological development.
Your comment is so on point and insightful. I cannot believe that no one gave it a thumbs up. If I could I would give it 5 👍👍👍👍👍 So I will do it this way.
Re: Mark "Marty" Rathbun's original "blowing" event, after some 2 days in "The Hole"...? Or something like that. It's my opinion that Rathbun never actually left at all. That he only acted as such to infiltrate a few of the groups who are the greatest threat to Miscavige. And given the long, sordid and over-the-top history and, thusly, the very-well-deserved "scorched earth" reputation Scientology enjoys regarding its "enemies", this possibility only gets more plausible over time. This is an organization that doesn't (ever) stop attacking those it deems an enemy. They will, and have, done anything and everything up to, and some argue, including murder, to not just stop the attacks, but to stop the attacker. Period. Which means the complete and utter decimation of that person's life, from job, family, friends, reputation, credit to their emotional, mental, physical well-being... everything. Tony's "scorched earth" metaphor is quite evident... so, from that perspective, it is not at all difficult to consider the possibility that the "church" has set up certain people as spies, "double agents"... whatever term applies.... people who seemingly "emerge" from the bowels Scientology, having apparently, "escaped" or "blown", but who are, in fact, working FOR the "church". I think Rathbun is one such person. There is one other currently who is quite well known, whom I won't name here, but looking back at who Marty was before and after his "escape", I think it's evident. This is purely speculation, of course, but if you listen CAREFULLY to what these people say, say often and loudly, and don't say, over time, it becomes fairly clear who is, and who isn't, authentically "blown". Desperate times require great risks. And I suppose risking the actual leaving of these 2 individuals has become "worth it" to Miscavige. Something to think about when watching any of these channels, interviews with those claiming to be Ex-Scientologists, etc. Strange things are afoot at the Circle K. ;)
I've had what I came to think of as 'Spiritual Feelings' since I was a kid. Now I'm pretty sure that it has something to do with be a conscious animal. As soon as our expanding consciousness evolved to a certain point, self-consciousness must have come into play ... I took a varied journey all over the map of beliefs and pursuits for decades, and it boiled down to this ... organized religion wants money and power ... and as I looked into 'New Agey' stuff, there was still that money issue, plus I began to monitor my own scale of *confirmation bias*, which I wished to reduce. Now I get the same thrills in my 'spirit' watching videos about physics, or I just howl at the moon all on my own like a cheapskate of a Pagan. :)
Reading the books of the New Testament, we probably asked ourselves more than once: *"Why 2000 years we do not see those miracles that accompanied the Сhurch of Christ in the I century, as described in the New Testament?"* Why do the so-called preachers of Christ have to prove that Jesus really existed and atheists boldly deny the historicity or divine origin of Christ? Maybe because the Сhurch of Christ has not existed for 2000 years? The Сhurch does not exist in the form in which it is presented in the books of the New Testament, but there are Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant and other christian sects claiming to be the place of the Church, but they not have the only thing that distinguishes the divine from the human and is characteristic of just the Сhurch of Christ -the reinforcement of the word with signs, that is, miracles (Mark 16:15-20). Therefore, some researchers doubt the historicity of Christ, and some of them are not opposed to declaring him a an ordinary philosopher, teacher. But even if Jesus were an ordinary philosopher, his disciples would be ordinary followers of Jesus. And they would not dare to write about the miracles that not only Jesus, but also his disciples, could perform. In this world, the great fertility of atheism can be explained by the fact that there is no main opponent of critics of the Bible - the Church. If there were the Church in our time as described by the authors of the New Testament books, where miracles are performed, the sick are healed, where prophesied, and the dead are raised, no one would doubt the historicity of Christ. Then there would be the same controversy throughout the world as in the first century - Jesus the Son of God or the false prophet who seduces the world by miracles. As a result, we can say that the emergence and development of christian sects and atheism was the result of the fact that over the 2000 years the Сhurch of Christ did not exist. Find *"The Mystery about the Church of Christ"* video on RUclips, which shows the real causes of Christian sects and atheism. The video reveals a prophecy about the disappearance and reappearance of the Church of Christ before the end of the world. Watching this video will bring joy to all who sincerely seek God and will interest those who are not too lazy to think freely. Click on my name to watch the video (The video is in Russian, but English subtitles are included).
Scientology would be the coolest religion ever if it wasn't for the child labor and the expenses. I think it could easily be in the top 5 in popularity if they were to solve those problems.
Anybody up to date on Ancient Aliens, Nazi 'Paperclip' UFO's, or Anunnaki from Nibiru & Aliens from Pleiades on WWW? Maybe L. Ron Hubbard merely wrote his Sci Fi stuff from THOSE 'GE' Memories BEFORE us Young'uns got that Akashic Leakages?:}
That glitter or whatever it is under Tonys eye is so distracting lol. This is a good interview with a lot of recent information. I'm glad they addressed the Marty situation....it was obvious he was working with scientology with those attack advertisements on RUclips that have been popping up this past year or so.
Rammer Jammer I enjoy he's interviews and insights he is extremely knowledgeable. He also is an expert at cutting through all the misconceptions and gives the best unbias info I have seen so far. Thank you for letting me know about the light source =). I hope if he was sick or has messed up his voice with all his interviews he is 100 percent better now.
Some really useful stuff from Tony here especially his comments on the recent turning of Marty R. The first in some time. The interviewer doesn't help a lot though. He's too vague and rambles on before going off on bizarre tangents. I suppose that this behaviour is strangely appropriate for someone investigating Scientology; but it doesn't help the focus of this piece...
1.Every cult has a single powerful human leader. In fact, all cult leaders will proclaim themselves a god on earth. Do you recall Jim Jones? or Charles Manson? They both proclaimed themselves to be Jesus Christ. 2.The cult leaders word, or teachings of the cult become absolute truth over shadowing the Word of God. In fact, ALL cult leaders declare their traditions are above the Bible. They must do this because the Bible exposes them. They need to make the Bible appear fallible so as to ingrain the thought process that makes man’s word appear superior to God’s Word.3.Each cult uses force to coerce its members into submission. Most cults today will use high pressure tactics to get people to not only join them, they also resort to extreme measures to make them stay. They do this mainly because they know the loved ones of their converts would eventually reveal their hidden evil agenda to them causing them to leave the cult. 4. Each cult leader will teach a Jesus that is not found in the Scriptures. Like Jim Jones, or Charles Manson, their version of "Jesus" was light-years from the true Jesus of the Bible. 5.A Cult will teach a Gospel of good works in place of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Again, like Jim Jones, Charles Manson, and even some of the more "gentle" cults of today. Their leaders always taught that you must work your way to Heaven. Jim Jones declared the Kool-Aid a work that will “set them free.” Charles Manson declared murder their good works. Of course, some cults will use works of murder and mayhem, while still there are others that use good works as their requirement. 6.Cults often urge their converts to leave their families. This is a common feature wherein the cult leaders force their converts away from families to prevent them from learning the truth about the cult they are now a member of. All too often some governments actually step in to break up such "communes" because of what has been happening lately. Their reasoning for doing this has to do with the mass suicides many of these cults are known for. I recall back in the 70’s how cults were the focus of many interventions. A family member or friend would be lured away by some cult member. Once there, they are brainwashed, and taught everyone outside the cult are evil and hell-bent on their destruction. So, friends or family, and often both would abduct the loved one back from the cult and bring them to a neutral location where they try to bring them back to reality. In these interventions they would attempt to re-educate, or un-wash their brains during a long series of conversations with loved ones. This was usually done by a cult specialist that would come in and show the affected loved one how the cult had twisted numerous Bible verses to get them to believe their lies over actual truth. It would usually take several days to even weeks in some cases to get the loved one to realize the truth.
If your talking about the Roman Catholic Church I agree with you in the Roman Catholic Church is demonic and not Christian. They blended paganism with teaching of the bible. The Roman Catholic Church is a false representation of what a true Christian is.
I am 100% not a Roman Catholic but I do believe in the Bible the word of God and I will never be part of the Roman Catholic Church not Protestant I'm just a bible-believing Christiana follower of God a.k.a Jesus Christ. (JOHN1:1-14)
No that's not what i meant. Catholics are no different than Christians when it comes to belief. It's all faith based gathering of people of the same mind, trying to make other people buy into the myth. COS is different in that they don't have a "god" of sorts. They have xenu but he isn't described as a god so much as a general maybe? And they are much more underhanded and disturbing. The abuse, the money grabbing, lying, abuse, etc puts them in the no. 1 spot for cultism. Christianity is a kinder gentler form of trying to indoctrinate you. But myth just the same
Listen, no one wants to be rude to you, and we all agree that the COS isn't a church in the strict sense that you define as a church. But no one is interested in your religious OPINION. Your beliefs are just that: yours, and a belief only, not fact, and none to back it up. I defend your right to believe what you want as long as you don't hurt anyone else. That is the definition the COS: harm. That's what we're discussing. Not jesus
Loved the account by Tony Ortega. The interviewer is completely painful to listen to (not because he is foreign) but I found his questions unecessarily complicated and inarticulate.
Get proof God exists. In Order, Watch: 1. By Fact Reality/Science has Found Proof of the Existence of God. also 2. " I Am God, Jesus Christ in the Flesh" 3. The Great White Throne. This should settle many matters and awaken your spirit.
There are just as many videos documentaries, and movies to prove the opposite, many with very good info from esteemed scientists concerning the roots of our existence to other planets. Christianity is an opinion
echo I doubt anything I could try to explain to you, you would even consider, unfortunately. I will, however, address one thing about your original comment. The phrase and affiliation, "Never Trump" was coined and used by Republicans who were vowing not to support, endorse, or vote for Trump, not Democrats. That you don't know that speaks volumes....
OH Tony is anything but. Lol His wife was harassed by the "Church" due to his investigation of them. He's just very informed on the inner workings and verbiage because he doesn't want to speak in ignorance on the topic. And due to having immersed himself in speaking specifically to higher up former members
It's hard to understand how someone could spend so much time investigating and reporting on Scientology yet have such laughable notions about the various methodologies that it covers, and then to add insult to injury start to generate unfounded ideas of one's own based on lack of understanding. So let me introduce at least one correction here: Scientology auditing is technical in nature and is performed within strict rules and guidelines. One of the rules is that an auditing process is run until a preclear (person being audited) reaches an END PHENOMENA (EP) of the process. End phenomena is determined by a "floating needle" on an E-meter which indicates release of charge/psychological tension related to a given auditing question AND major realizations and cheerful state by the preclear which are called VERY GOOD INDICATORS (VGI's). So no an e-meter is not required to assess whether an EP on the process was reached. Continuing to run a process pass the EP results in an OVERRUN which is known to worsen preclears condition and is considered a gross auditing error and a "suppressive act" by the auditor toward the preclear. There are then corrective auditing that can be done when an overrun in some past auditing had occurred. So no, a repetitive auditing question in itself is not a cause for any concern, but quite to the contrary can result in some massive gains and insights IF it is applied correctly. A part of successful auditing is to pick what question to ask in the first place. And no, I am not a Scientologist and I have zero affiliation with the Church. I just invested the time to understand how Scientology works in both good and bad ways.
That's not all there is to auditing as there are different auditing methods, etc. But that would be a longer conversation. The disconnection that everyone talks about comes out of what is called PTS/SP tech - Potential Trouble Source / Suppressive Person. What you have to understand first is that Scientology is very "multi-dimensional." There are numerous theories and methodologies that Hubbard developed over two decades through 1950's and 1960's and that's the first main dividing line: 1950's tech which includes Dianetics and what I call Spiritual Scientology and 1960's technology which includes Scientology's "ethics tech," its "justice system," organizational policy and the like - much of it directly contradicts and reverses the gains accomplished with 1950's technology but it's all interwoven through a lineup of printed materials and lectures. You have to look through a lot of material in specifics to untangle different aspects of Scientology and separate the good from the bad. Back onto disconnection. The general idea behind PTS/SP tech is that if someone is connected to a suppressive person or group, they represent a sort of danger to the organization and so should not be involved in training or processing (receiving auditing) until the situation is handled. This makes sense within "normal reality" that could be generally understood. If someone say, was a member of a criminal gang, then having such a person on lines at the Church would pose a serious liability for obvious reasons of that part of person's life "spilling over" into Church activities. Same thing if someone had a psychotic spouse that could cause harm especially if such a spouse was issuing threats including of physical violence. This is not uncommon even in regular life if you meet somebody who was say doing drugs or connected to some crazy people or whatever - you'd intuit that getting involved with such a person could create problems in your own life. So even if PTS/SP could be quite reasonable within common sense scenarios, it is taken to a different extreme in Scientology due to Hubbard's own suppressive stance toward anyone merely critical of Scientology. It's very hard to be so brief on a subject that involves numerous factors that need to be explained, but I'll try. 1) Whereas Dianetics was focused on handling "memory recordings" - mental image pictures, Scientology theory extended the principle to say that reality itself is a sort of "mental image picture" - a complete product of "agreed upon considerations" by all powerful spiritual beings that we are. Basically, one of the main tenants of Scientology is that reality is a product of collective consciousness and has no (independent) existence of its own - hence, the belief in possibility to reach god-like abilities by simply enhancing one's consciousness through Scientology methodology. 2) In logic with this primary "axiom" in Scientology on the nature of reality, a PROBLEM is defined as "intention vs counter-intention" or "postulate vs counter-postulate" - if reality is a product of considerations then it follows that any problem that someone may experience to manifesting one's postulates must be caused by someone else's conflicting postulates. 3) Suppression then is a form of a problem where someone continuously "counter-postulates" against the PTS person - a person connected to such suppression. So merely STATEMENTS contrary to the intentions of a Scientologist or Scientology as an organization are treated as "suppression" due to a belief that considerations are the primary causative factor in the formation of reality. This psychological construct is the same regardless of whether someone is doing Scientology in the Church or a part of "independent field." Tracking? :) 4) Based on these beliefs, Hubbard setup organizational policy and "machinery" where he eventually stated that the purpose of Scientology "ethics" was to "remove" COUNTER-INTENTIONS AND! OTHER-INTENTIONS from the "environment." So ANYTHING that conflicts with Scientology in any way must ultimately be eliminated. This is pretty scary if you think about it, but all "logically" stemming from an idea that basically ideas (considerations) literary create reality. 5) In line with such Scientology "ethics," Hubbard then instituted "Fair Game" policies that dictate that "suppressive persons" must be "handled" to the point of destroying such a person or group if they refuse to seize their "suppressive acts" which again begins with merely voicing criticism of Scientology or even trying to divert Scientologists into other practices - also a big no no in Scientology. Are we still talking about Disconnection? That really doesn't seem like a big deal when you take into account a larger "philosophical framework" from which it came out of. "Disconnection" is merely a temporary fix until Scientology became powerful enough to "fully handle" the "suppressive elements" in the environment. But it is basically used to isolate members from any source of conflicting thought with respect to Scientology, and practicing Scientologists take it upon themselves to terminate communication whenever a conflict or disagreement arises. Many ex-Scientologists still operate on the same principle because few people invest the time to taking Scientology apart into its "particles" to understand all the assumptions they've absorbed into their thinking patterns. So Disconnection ultimately comes out of a basic idea in Scientology that thoughts (considerations) create reality and so "unwanted" or disagreeable thoughts must be handled or avoided because they pose a danger to manifest that unwanted reality especially if more and more people agree on them since "agreement" between spiritual beings brings about a manifestation of "considerations" in reality. That's not all there is to say, and there are more factors to consider, but this is basically the core of it. If you ever explored New Age groups - they follow similar patterns and will attack or terminate communication based on an idea that "negative thoughts" will cause a manifestation of "negative reality." They just don't have the "organizational machinery" that operates on those beliefs that Hubbard ended up constructing.
Ultimately, the question of Scientology is not an issue of a rogue organization on the lose destroying people's lives - it's an ultimate question on the nature of consciousness and reality and how the basic assumptions in Scientology lead to various "solutions" and ways of thinking. And despite the fact that Scientology has some flawed basic assumptions about reality which eventually led to some bad organizational policies and attitudes, some of the methods that Hubbard developed for consciousness enhancement during 1950's are simply mind blowing, but unfortunately they get buried underneath all the drama surrounding the later developments like Scientology "ethics" and organizational policies developed through the 60's. When people first come into Scientology, they get exposed to 1950's stuff like Dianetics which was a true breakthrough in the field of psychotherapy not some b.s. that critics claim it to be and early Scientology that offers processes for enhancement of ability and awareness. THEN an initiate gets indoctrinated into "ethics" and policy from 1960's and it's all over. 1960's era also introduced interrogation techniques (security checks) which became permanently interwoven with beneficial aspects of early auditing techniques. You have to dig into the details of various method to separate bad from the good, and very few people care to make that effort.
This interviewer is very well informed! Thanks for asking his opinion about Marty
Excellent interview. Very informative. Thank you Mr. Ortega for your thorough and unbiased information. I know this video was made years ago, but it is still very useful today if not even more. I appreciate you sharing this knowledge.
Brilliant as always. What Tony Ortega doesn't know about Scientology probably isn't worth knowing.
It's total knowingness!
Your interviews are probably THE best there are. You let your subject finish their thoughts, you ask with open curiouslity, and you are coming from outside of the US, a valuable view. And Tony is likely THE best subject no matter who interviews him. He’s not manipulating people’s emotions, he lets you finish your thoughts, he is researched… very nice.
People leaving and then going back is scarier than people joining initially.
Thanks for pointing out the times frames, making it easier to watch a long interview. Good interview with Tony Ortega.
I previously stated the President had made negative comments about Scientology, but could not locate a 2016 interview citation. Today, a Newsweek quote regarding a potential new IRS head did confirm those feelings: "Trump told Lynne Patton - a regional head at the Department of Housing and Urban Development - that the Church of Scientology should lose its status as a religion, and the tax exemption that comes with it..."
Trump is as bad as miscarriage! He will NEVER bother another rich white guy
interesting.
Great interview. I love Tony Ortega but thought you added some thoughtfulness to the presentation. Thank you.
Brilliant interview. Tony Ortega is always great to listen to and knows his subject really well. Pity about the audio issues Tony had but this was still really good.
We ex Scientologists just owe Tony so much, for him taking the years to get so deep into nutty Scientology. Just a brilliant interview, Nikita's questions and understanding and "exterior" view of USA and Scientology, just a totally enjoyable interview, and I've unfortunately been all over Scientology since 1975 when I joined the damned cult, etc, etc. The reference to Kurt Anderson's article, Tony mentions, so apropos, worthy of reading for us ex Scientologists to get a good cultural take on how we "fit in" 58:23 .: www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/how-america-lost-its-mind/534231/
Chuck Beatty
ex Scientology staff trainer, etc, etc, 1975-2003
I’ve just become interested with Scientology and all the activity around it. I’ve never met a Scientologist or even really heard much about Scientology before a few weeks ago. But after gathering a lot of background I am curious how a regular person in Scientology lives? One of the issues I believe kept ppl in Scientology was how often negative or one sided stories (as true as they may be) about Scientology kept ppl in Scientology or moved them closer to Scientology. Because those negative or sensational stories the media likes to cover (again true as they may be) didn’t exactly represent the experience most ppl had in Scientology. Is that true? Most Scientologists appear very rational, high performing ppl to me. So I can easily see how Scientologists surrounded by a bunch of other highly functioning Scientologists would take offense to being called cultists or get angry having only the most controversial aspects of Scientology covered in the news, especially since the Xenon stuff doesn’t ever get talked about or exposed to Scientologists until OT3.
@@kgmv4798 Sea Org staff of the upper totem pole staff hierarchy get 50-100 dollars a week "allowance" and live in communal apartment building, communal dining and uniforms provided. Some of the Sea Org staff have dentists and when I was in, Sea Org staff per the IRS are 'religious workers' per tax category which is sub/below poverty, and thus we would utilize social health to avoid our "church" having to foot our health bills. IN my Sea Org years, 1975 to 2003, schedule was 9am to 11:30pm, which is roughly 14 hours work, 9-10 hours sleep and meals time. Half of Sunday morning we did cleaning and laundry of our apartments/living spaces. Every two weeks, if a Sea Org member's production is high and they've committed no dire transgressions or mistakes, they are allowed a day off, LOL. So it is very strict living, no time off, and allowance money wise is meager and not always delivered some many weeks you get less than your 50-100 cut.
Next category of staff, are the next lower echelon, which is the city level "church" staff who are paid horribly, just ridiculously horrible allowances which are way more likely to be less than 50 bucks a week. They too have to live communally in houses near to the "church" in the city they are in. Their hours of staff duty is depending on a couple of factors. Some have to "moonlight" and do extra work on regular jobs, to make ends meet. Their lives are so dire that a huge huge number of the city "church" staff quit.
All Scientology "organization" hierarchy units are overpopulated, so much so, they are truly unviable, too Indians and the "orgs" ought to be way way less staffed, but Scientology over mans up their "orgs."
Next category are the regular "parishioners" who are just members, who come and do "services" which they have to pay for, service by service. Regular parishioners/members have whatever regular lives they have.
Because Scientology has such intense membership rules which can lead to being kicked out of Scientology, this for that reason presses members to quite often go to work for other Scientologists and into Scientologist led companies. Scientologists who run their own companies are kept on a sort of leash by Scientology's "front" groups, particularly the "WISE" (World Institute of Scientology Enterprises) front group which has report lines into the Sea Org Scientology management and Sea Org Scientology managers oversee and determine and hold the leash and hold the whip over all Scientologists in terms of them being excommunicated or not.
Because Scientology has such draconian excommunication rules, Scientologists have to think twice about just blandly violating the Scientology voluminous and picky rules for the members.
Members, even though they are allowed normal lives, are very much under the gun by the Scientology's staffs of Scientology "orgs" or the Sea Org managers, who can crack the whip on any Scientologist violation of their very invasive rules.
So creature comfort wise, the Sea Org top totem pole staff do get perks and with the exception of the top top managers of Sea Org who were hated by the top top leader who had them all in a semi staff prison called the "Hole", other top echelon Sea Org staff have okay food, okay apartments, okay showers, okay uniforms.
Staff in the city "orgs" have things slightly harder, due to not making enough income to live normally.
Scientology staff live is very much below poverty and "religious worker" lifestyle.
Scientology regular members, are just as varied as normal lifestyle and creature comforts as typical middle to upper middle class citizens in the US.
Rich Scientologists and celebrity Scientologists, have their improved creature comforts as any rich or celebrity status US citizens do.
-----------------------
Schedule for Scientology participation, depends on a few things. Scientology isn't just a Sunday 1-2 hour participating "church."
Scientology wants you coming into the church at least 12 1/2 to 25 hours weekly!
What rich Scientologists do, is they hold off doing this weekly, and save up and come to Clearwater to do a month of intense Scientology "services" all day, for two to 4 weeks, and "get a lot done" on the Scientology syllabus (The Bridge to Total Freedom).
But in the city "orgs" ("churches") this comes out to be more hodgepodge and city Scientologists get to get away with not putting in their 12 1/2 to 25 hours weekly so much.
I was in the administrative bureaucracy rules part of the movement in my 27 years in the cult.
Chuck Beatty
ex Team Xenu Sea Org 1975 to 2003
@@chuckbeattyo Thank you for this very interesting comment.
Tony Ortega, I know this is from September 2017, but you said Marty Rathbon & his wife had a winning case. However, Marty also went thru auditing before becoming a top “dog” of Scientology. They either offered them a settlement & they took it OR they sent him copies of his auditing sessions outlining his “crimes” from when he was a pre-clear which, I’m sure Marty didn’t want that information introduced in court.
but they always had that info on him...
I love almost every question the interviewer asked. They were sum of the big questions i needed clarity on. So thx
People alive, who have possibly some of the final weeks of Hubbard's life to tell insider details, are Pat Broeker and Ray Mitoff, both alive. Pat is out of the movement, and hasn't wished to be interviewed or contacted. Ray Mitoff is inside the movement was the final Senior Case Supervisor International. Both those men, I hope they someday do reveal their final interactions with Hubbard. Ray more so that Pat, as Ray will be about the "best" theoretical Scientologist alive, if Ray has his head on straight and can talk in detail. Pat was the main speaker at the LRH funeral event, and Pat held up the Hubbard quack-therapy session paperwork page which is in Hubbard's handwriting, and the page Pat held up for the camera has an ancient date written on it. Pat would be able to describe the significance of that ancient date. That is what I'm interested in hearing. Ray I believe has read, and understands, Hubbard's final "case" paperwork, and Ray I hope lives long enough to someday go public and relay in detail Hubbard's final "case" state of mind efforts, as delusional as these Hubbard mental final explorations were, I would like to hear from Pat and Ray, what those final final explorations (of what is clearly delusional stuff) nonetheless were.
Chuck Beatty
ex Scientology nutter (I was mainly administrative rules and regulations expert, but I know the damnable Hubbard delusional quackery as good as anyone, 1975-2003)
that IRS commissioner should have been fired.
LovelySteph yup. He fucked everything up. Behind LRH and Miscaviage he's the single biggest reason why $cientology has been so destructive.
Thank you! Tiny is always an interesting interview...you had some great questions!
I keep hearing : Did Marty settle & make an agreement to go back to work for COB making slick vids busting balls of the Usual Suspects who are publically critical of Scientology? A group he himself was part of until recently? What I hadn't heard until Tony mentioned it in this vid is WHY DID MONIQUE RATHBUN fire her lawyers who were working on contingency (for free unless you win a jury award or settle) then drop the lawsuit, which was about HER being harassed by The Church of Scientology even though she had never been a member of the Church, to me that is the most curious story in all of this,,,, she had everything to gain by going forward w/the lawsuit against Scientology. Someone for some reason convinced her to drop the suit. I'd LOVE to know who and why! Great work Tony and channels like this who give a platform to Tony and other like minded individuals going after the big boys, that takes ginormous cajones! ;)
I totally agree. He must know where somebody is buried lol
Please talk about Melanie Safkas' involvement in Scientology. Remember Melanie? She was a big star back in the early 70s. Got her start playing at the 1969 Woodstock festival.
I did not know Melanie was involved in Scientology. I love her song Lay Down ( Candles In The Rain ) such a beautiful song. Anyhow, as you are saying, I would like to know about her involvement. Also, the extent of it. It is a different experience for those who dabble in it & those who commit to it in it's entirety.
Marty Rathbun should be ashamed of himself. He’s betrayed all the other survivors ( and escapees) of Scientology, and his attorneys who worked diligently to help him.
it's mortifying to think of him raising a child. I'm sad for the kid adopted by Marty and his idiotic wife.
It is interesting that the discussion never extends as far as to mention the possibility that Msrty could be threatened with his life or that of someone else.(reference the existence of kakhan status and its implications).
Hi Happy. Well the way I see it is that Marty Ragbun NEVER had integrity, even when he left. Why? Because look at the process. He was number 2, and was doing bad things to others. Now he himself gets locked up, what he did to others is now done to him. He can't handle that so takes off. See where I'm going?
I can’t believe nobody has used this analogy, have you ever been in a bad relationship or been cheated on and had your heart broken. It can take years to get over that and sometimes you take them back fully knowing it’s wrong.now imagine losing your entire family and your friends and your lifestyle. Bless those that are strong enough to stay away.... Fuck Rathbum
Always interesting.
Thank you Tony for Exposing Marty Rathbun!!
Very, very interesting stuff. Wish the audio had been better.
I agree it was a good video Jim. Great pity about the audio - it was driving me nuts at times too and I suspect I missed some interesting points because of it.
Agree - I had to back up and re-listen to a bunch of things Tony said (at first I thought he was saying he was pushed into appearing in "Going Clear" instead of privileged!). However, the problem was on Tony's side (though the maker of the video should probably learn to clean up poor audio better). Tony needs a real microphone 🎤 and some seriously better lighting. I know it's "The Underground Bunker", but he looks like he's trapped in the corner of a cell! If I could afford it, I'd send him a backdrop, a mic, and some basic lighting equipment - could probably get it done for $250 or less. He deserves to look and sound better for posterity, especially after all the great work he has done! Also, I hope he's well and it's just the lighting - he looks a bit ill... and I feel bad pointing it out, but what is that white spot on his cheek?
Just to clarify something maybe. There is much made about Scientology's doctrine of reincarnation, and Tony points this out to be a major source of the weak family bonds in this "church". BUT a very similar belief is foundational in Hinduism including (some) Buddhism and Jainism, and as we know, the family structure in these cultures is VERY strong. Hindus can playfully speculate about their child's life in a previous incarnation, as possibly being their Grandparent OR friend or even lover.
The difference is that included in Hindu teachings there is a great REVERENCE for these family roles, in other words, being a mother to a child is considered a sacred duty to be carried out with all the love, joy and worry that comes with it. To NOT properly play that role with all of your heart, is unthinkable. It would be a fail... like breaking character in the middle of your scene on stage.
Along with identifying with the obvious roles we naturally fall into, we must cultivate the knowledge of the spirit that exists beyond these roles. That allows us to experience our life as not limited to just these roles, since everything eventually comes to an end. This "death" of identity is witnessed in installments for every rite of passage a child passes through growing into adulthood. This subtly detached attitude can allow for a more healthy acceptance of change and growth.
I see that LRH has weaponized these concepts, and adapted them to suit his need to enslave his followers by downplaying any human social or biological role that interferes with the servile role HE prefers.
Well said. And yes it is a very common practice throughout the world to believe in reincarnation. As you say, the big difference is how it is applied to our daily lives and the lives of our loved ones. Even the concept of life on other planets is being seriously studied by many a very learned scientist these days, with some very convincing results. There are many cases of children (mostly) knowing things of about people who were alive before their own time. An example is the boy who had complete knowledge of the WWII fighter pilot right up to his full name, the no.s on his aircraft carrier and the moment he crashed to his death. But to twist beliefs or opinions into a harmful cult is another whole bag of rocks. I think his narcissism and delusions of grandeur fueled his writing abilities and got the best of him
The dysfunction within traditional Hinduism comes from the polarization of family bonds, by instilling a family co-dependence which is the polar opposite of that which Scientology practices. This acts for Hindus as a strait jacket on family members and opens up the way for systemic domestic abuse, as family members are stuck to their families thanks to this family polarity their religion has created. Both polarities, whether it's no mortal family or co-dependence on your mortal family, is inspired by the same false belief system. Systemic abuses are created within the traditional Hindu families due to this family polarity.
A lot of people such as yourself, don't see a difference between love and co-dependence, to you co-dependence IS love. Study the traditional Hindu family and you'll learn there's been just as much control and abuse within it as within the society of Scientology. For goodness sake, this family polarization enables the caste system, a societal straight jacket.
If you believe in a false belief system, you're going to swing to one polar opposite or the other.
A Jay I'm trying to glean something intelligible from your post. let's see if I got anything right.
Hindu family life is crap, and Scientology' offers freedom from family structures by destroying them. Love within the family unit is basically false love and oppressive.
also... I don't know what love is, but Scientology can teach me what love is.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you sound like a Scientology troll to me. Nice try.
Yes it went completely over your head. Don't you know what polarization and co-dependence means? If you did you'd know I was ragging on Scientology lol. I don't think I've ever said a good thing about Scientology. How about you read again, more slowly.... Maybe with a dictionary in hand.
A Jay.... OK, I take back the troll comment after reading again more slowly.
I wasn't holding the idea of Hindu family life as some ultimate perfection I was making a specific comment about blaming the "Thetan" concept as the cause of child abuse due to disregarding family roles, and flattening them to "we are ALL deck hands on the ship of Scientology which will save the world".
Growing up in a family is challenging regardless of culture. Hindu, Jew, Christian, Muslim all have their issues. CoS is the destruction of all family systems, replacing it with something else that never lets you grow up and take charge of your life. I don't think they can even be compared.
Hello to tony's small tear on his cheek .
That's glitter!
NeuronalAxon Is that what it is?!
osofine he wanted to look fabuloussssss
What's that supposed to mean bro?
@@nepadron LOL
yeah wats up w/ marty rathburne. I don't think he ever left entirely or was severely severely threatened
Betzy Maya Yeah, I've wondered if they found some way to scare the sh!t out of him - threatening his wife and/or child, maybe?
They were harassing Marty’s wife (who was never a Scientologist) and their baby. You just want your family to be safe. I’m not thrilled with his decision but I think I do understand it a little. If he didn’t have his wife and child to protect who knows what he would’ve done. It’s very sad.
I finally got to the end - I've been watching when I can over the last day or so. Great information! I always learn something new from Tony Ortega. I thought the questions were very good, especially to get an overview of the subject. I would definitely recommend this video for people who are just learning about $cientology from Leah Remini's show! One thing, though. What is up with the end?! Why didn't you cut the video after the main conversation ended ("Thank you for having me on again, man," was a good ending!) and Tony's audio cut out completely? I'm so curious about what he was saying after that, I wish I could read lips! He's running his hand though his hair, he seems to be laughing... it just goes on and on until it finally cuts out. Did you have a reason for leaving it that way? I'm curious! Anyway, it was a great video - thanks for doing it!
A great interview, but that breaking up of Tony's voice started wearing me down.
This is a great interview! I really enjoy following Tony's posts on the Leah Remini show Facebook group. When you talked about the former Soviet Union I was really trying to think of a Yakov Smirnoff style joke to fit with Scientology.
Hearing Tony talk about the transition from Dianetics to Scientology, his explanation of the "fixes" reminds me of the Jehovah's Witnesses, who told me on my doorstep that their failures to predict the end of the world on very specific days was due to a "progressive revelation." They felt just as confident about predicting the end of the world in the 1970s as they do with whatever their story is today.
Since Scientologist is banned in Germany why are using the same tactics and examples as the Germans did ?
This whole drama has to come to a head very soon....so many cracks in the dam....if only Tommy Davis kept his mouth shut at Tom Cruise's wedding,,,,he lit more than a fire under Leah, and this woman has the attention of all daytime tv viewers as well as others with the A&E and 20/20....shit is lit
This video explains everything. Ty TO
Gr8 stuff.
I am really enjoying to content of this interview but to audio on key points and people Tony is mentioning is just terrible! I don't know if it was an internet issue, conference software issue, etc but just disappointed that I can't hear key information that I haven't heard before. Hope you can improve or clean up and repost. Just an observation, it seems when Tony leans into his computer is when his audio gets distorted.
Scientology takes their pound of flesh no matter who you are.
hes with them, he's in their commercials now
I was always very curious about Marty and why he did what he did, or is still doing. Instead now I just know the he has zero credibility on both sides. His mentality should be questioned.
Leah ROCKS shes talking to normal people no celebs
47:00 IRS harrassment campaign against IRS official, Rathbun was open about. In the 1991 they owed more than a billion USD in taxes (they never paid since 1967 when they had lost tax excempt status). - Ortega says that information is from "Going Clear".
Sound quality very poor in many places.......
VA got out? WOW great. I remember her as DCO Conts, saw her at Flag in the Ft Harrison. Most that I knew back then I have no idea what happened to them.
Does Miscavige really think that their comments to a program of any kind will change anyones opinion of him? How disillusioned is he. He must not be very bright.
If you have to flee or escape your church....you just might be in a cult.
What he did to Bert Leahy was sad!!!!
14:00 -- they killed the Rathbuns years ago and replaced them with robots.
Perhaps Marty is being emotionally blackmailed for something he has done that Scientology knows about this means S has a hold on him.
I'm puzzled as to why people who join scientology see any correlation or relationship to religion as it is understood in this society. Or is that a factor? There is no deity (not counting zenu) no worship, no praying, no salvation, no redemption for sins, the only "afterlife" is reincarnation. There doesn't even seem to be a focus on moral principles except adhering to the rules of the organization. In the broadest sense it might be a philosophy. But that's not religion. Additionally, how do they propose to "clear" the planet and what is the end result if that even could be accomplished. This organization has been active for decades and there has been nothing achieved so far except amassing a tremendous amount of money and properties.
1) Hubbard was a (maybe intuitive) genius about USING AND LEVERAGING POWER. A genuis to establish dominance over other people - be it with charisma, or with bullying. - I heard in interviews that young Sea Org members or new wealthy recruits were "surprised" with sessions with the e-meter, with a lot of very personal and intruding questions and they FELT they could not lie. And it is very much the nature of homo sapiens to ANSWER a QUESTION if it is directly adressed to them (accepting also the framing that they "are obliged" to that politeness).
In sales technique there is the insight: The person that aks, controls the conversation (the person can steer in the desired direction and also influence the answers they are getting and the mood that is established. Getting the "upper hand" so that the clients can be convinced to buy / sign the contract.
Anyway: the novices FELT they were FORCED to answer truthfully and could not even hold back (unless they were willing to end their journey into Scientology or Sea Org right away - and refusing to comply with Sea Org "initiation" procedures once you "signed" the contract, can mean major trouble, shunning by the cult and the loss of your family and friends if they are in the cult).
WHO has the AUTHORITY to hold back information (and evade being EXPOSED and / or held accountable), and WHO MUST TELL EVERYTHING and cannot hold on to privacy - that establishes a POWER DYNAMIC. And that dynamic is established VERY EARLY ON in Scientology (and also in Multi Level Marketing if they are aggressive).
I read a story where adults remember that they as young children lied for the first time to their parents or withheld information - and got away with it. And realized for the first time that the parents are NOT those all-knowing, omnipotent beings. The kids realized their OWN sovereignity - a little persons with not much power - but there was something they did have going for them. They COULD be secretive, they could hide things - for fun, for feeling INDEPENDENT, or to protect themselves from punishment.
People in North Korea also are taught (and many believe it) that the "Dear Leader" can read their thoughts.
The issue also comes up in mythology. The mysterious "during night only" spouse (don't look at me Psyche, or don't ask me for my name, or I'll have to leave).
The one room you must never, ever enter, or the forbidden fruit (of knowledge of good and evil) in Garden Eden.
Of course the secret MUST be unveiled, the taboo MUST be violated - for the sake of development - myths, legends, and old fairy tales are timeless narrations of human psychological development.
Your comment is so on point and insightful. I cannot believe that no one gave it a thumbs up. If I could I would give it 5 👍👍👍👍👍 So I will do it this way.
I was really disappointed when they got to Rathbun. Hope he got paid, not threatened.
Re: Mark "Marty" Rathbun's original "blowing" event, after some 2 days in "The Hole"...? Or something like that.
It's my opinion that Rathbun never actually left at all.
That he only acted as such to infiltrate a few of the groups who are the greatest threat to Miscavige.
And given the long, sordid and over-the-top history and, thusly, the very-well-deserved "scorched earth" reputation Scientology enjoys regarding its "enemies", this possibility only gets more plausible over time.
This is an organization that doesn't (ever) stop attacking those it deems an enemy.
They will, and have, done anything and everything up to, and some argue, including murder, to not just stop the attacks, but to stop the attacker.
Period.
Which means the complete and utter decimation of that person's life, from job, family, friends, reputation, credit to their emotional, mental, physical well-being... everything.
Tony's "scorched earth" metaphor is quite evident... so, from that perspective, it is not at all difficult to consider the possibility that the "church" has set up certain people as spies, "double agents"... whatever term applies.... people who seemingly "emerge" from the bowels Scientology, having apparently, "escaped" or "blown", but who are, in fact, working FOR the "church".
I think Rathbun is one such person.
There is one other currently who is quite well known, whom I won't name here, but looking back at who Marty was before and after his "escape", I think it's evident.
This is purely speculation, of course, but if you listen CAREFULLY to what these people say, say often and loudly, and don't say, over time, it becomes fairly clear who is, and who isn't, authentically "blown".
Desperate times require great risks. And I suppose risking the actual leaving of these 2 individuals has become "worth it" to Miscavige.
Something to think about when watching any of these channels, interviews with those claiming to be Ex-Scientologists, etc.
Strange things are afoot at the Circle K.
;)
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN Mr. ORTEGA INFORMATION IS IMFORMATION
I've had what I came to think of as 'Spiritual Feelings' since I was a kid.
Now I'm pretty sure that it has something to do with be a conscious animal. As soon as our expanding consciousness evolved to a certain point, self-consciousness must have come into play ...
I took a varied journey all over the map of beliefs and pursuits for decades, and it boiled down to this ... organized religion wants money and power ... and as I looked into 'New Agey' stuff, there was still that money issue, plus I began to monitor my own scale of *confirmation bias*, which I wished to reduce.
Now I get the same thrills in my 'spirit' watching videos about physics, or I just howl at the moon all on my own like a cheapskate of a Pagan. :)
Reading the books of the New Testament, we probably asked ourselves more than once: *"Why 2000 years we do not see those miracles that accompanied the Сhurch of Christ in the I century, as described in the New Testament?"* Why do the so-called preachers of Christ have to prove that Jesus really existed and atheists boldly deny the historicity or divine origin of Christ? Maybe because the Сhurch of Christ has not existed for 2000 years?
The Сhurch does not exist in the form in which it is presented in the books of the New Testament, but there are Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant and other christian sects claiming to be the place of the Church, but they not have the only thing that distinguishes the divine from the human and is characteristic of just the Сhurch of Christ -the reinforcement of the word with signs, that is, miracles (Mark 16:15-20). Therefore, some researchers doubt the historicity of Christ, and some of them are not opposed to declaring him a an ordinary philosopher, teacher. But even if Jesus were an ordinary philosopher, his disciples would be ordinary followers of Jesus. And they would not dare to write about the miracles that not only Jesus, but also his disciples, could perform. In this world, the great fertility of atheism can be explained by the fact that there is no main opponent of critics of the Bible - the Church. If there were the Church in our time as described by the authors of the New Testament books, where miracles are performed, the sick are healed, where prophesied, and the dead are raised, no one would doubt the historicity of Christ. Then there would be the same controversy throughout the world as in the first century - Jesus the Son of God or the false prophet who seduces the world by miracles. As a result, we can say that the emergence and development of christian sects and atheism was the result of the fact that over the 2000 years the Сhurch of Christ did not exist.
Find *"The Mystery about the Church of Christ"* video on RUclips, which shows the real causes of Christian sects and atheism. The video reveals a prophecy about the disappearance and reappearance of the Church of Christ before the end of the world. Watching this video will bring joy to all who sincerely seek God and will interest those who are not too lazy to think freely. Click on my name to watch the video (The video is in Russian, but English subtitles are included).
1:13:00 very limited capabilities of the e-meter (before the history of Scientology)
Sound quality problematic.
Scientology would be the coolest religion ever if it wasn't for the child labor and the expenses. I think it could easily be in the top 5 in popularity if they were to solve those problems.
and the bs e-meter and sharing your inner demons to unqualified minions and countless other bs things that make no sense.
I find this subject intresting
I thought Marty was great in Louie Theroux s film, and now your saying he's a damn re-turncoat?
Anybody up to date on Ancient Aliens, Nazi 'Paperclip' UFO's, or Anunnaki from Nibiru & Aliens from Pleiades on WWW? Maybe L. Ron Hubbard merely wrote his Sci Fi stuff from THOSE 'GE' Memories BEFORE us Young'uns got that Akashic Leakages?:}
sound is quite bad
THE TECH PROPERLY APPLIED IS GREAT ,,,,,,,,THE CHURCH IS CROOKED AND EXPENSIVE
pretty sure every church is crooked and expensive, this one just happens to be a little bit more out there
That glitter or whatever it is under Tonys eye is so distracting lol. This is a good interview with a lot of recent information. I'm glad they addressed the Marty situation....it was obvious he was working with scientology with those attack advertisements on RUclips that have been popping up this past year or so.
Rammer Jammer I enjoy he's interviews and insights he is extremely knowledgeable. He also is an expert at cutting through all the misconceptions and gives the best unbias info I have seen so far. Thank you for letting me know about the light source =). I hope if he was sick or has messed up his voice with all his interviews he is 100 percent better now.
Yogis also learn to live beyond material nature.
The sound on Tony's side is awful.
Some really useful stuff from Tony here especially his comments on the recent turning of Marty R. The first in some time. The interviewer doesn't help a lot though. He's too vague and rambles on before going off on bizarre tangents. I suppose that this behaviour is strangely appropriate for someone investigating Scientology; but it doesn't help the focus of this piece...
I will Nikita. No offense there man. This was a great posting by the way---
Nikita Petrov I thought you did fine - I'm a little worried about that bottle of Jägermeister on your desk, though - that stuff will mess you up! 😉
A bizarre exchange these last two comments. A novice you certainly are not, Nikita. By the way, have you ever interviewed Jay Weidner?
Agree! Other than the sound, it is an excellent video! Lots of info
1.Every cult has a single powerful human leader. In fact, all cult leaders will proclaim themselves a god on earth. Do you recall Jim Jones? or Charles Manson? They both proclaimed themselves to be Jesus Christ. 2.The cult leaders word, or teachings of the cult become absolute truth over shadowing the Word of God. In fact, ALL cult leaders declare their traditions are above the Bible. They must do this because the Bible exposes them. They need to make the Bible appear fallible so as to ingrain the thought process that makes man’s word appear superior to God’s Word.3.Each cult uses force to coerce its members into submission. Most cults today will use high pressure tactics to get people to not only join them, they also resort to extreme measures to make them stay. They do this mainly because they know the loved ones of their converts would eventually reveal their hidden evil agenda to them causing them to leave the cult. 4. Each cult leader will teach a Jesus that is not found in the Scriptures. Like Jim Jones, or Charles Manson, their version of "Jesus" was light-years from the true Jesus of the Bible. 5.A Cult will teach a Gospel of good works in place of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Again, like Jim Jones, Charles Manson, and even some of the more "gentle" cults of today. Their leaders always taught that you must work your way to Heaven. Jim Jones declared the Kool-Aid a work that will “set them free.” Charles Manson declared murder their good works. Of course, some cults will use works of murder and mayhem, while still there are others that use good works as their requirement. 6.Cults often urge their converts to leave their families. This is a common feature wherein the cult leaders force their converts away from families to prevent them from learning the truth about the cult they are now a member of. All too often some governments actually step in to break up such "communes" because of what has been happening lately. Their reasoning for doing this has to do with the mass suicides many of these cults are known for. I recall back in the 70’s how cults were the focus of many interventions. A family member or friend would be lured away by some cult member. Once there, they are brainwashed, and taught everyone outside the cult are evil and hell-bent on their destruction. So, friends or family, and often both would abduct the loved one back from the cult and bring them to a neutral location where they try to bring them back to reality. In these interventions they would attempt to re-educate, or un-wash their brains during a long series of conversations with loved ones. This was usually done by a cult specialist that would come in and show the affected loved one how the cult had twisted numerous Bible verses to get them to believe their lies over actual truth. It would usually take several days to even weeks in some cases to get the loved one to realize the truth.
True but with a little imagination christianity could be considered the same.
If your talking about the Roman Catholic Church I agree with you in the Roman Catholic Church is demonic and not Christian.
They blended paganism with teaching of the bible.
The Roman Catholic Church is a false representation of what a true Christian is.
I am 100% not a Roman Catholic but I do believe in the Bible the word of God and I will never be part of the Roman Catholic Church not Protestant I'm just a bible-believing Christiana follower of God a.k.a Jesus Christ. (JOHN1:1-14)
No that's not what i meant. Catholics are no different than Christians when it comes to belief. It's all faith based gathering of people of the same mind, trying to make other people buy into the myth. COS is different in that they don't have a "god" of sorts. They have xenu but he isn't described as a god so much as a general maybe? And they are much more underhanded and disturbing. The abuse, the money grabbing, lying, abuse, etc puts them in the no. 1 spot for cultism. Christianity is a kinder gentler form of trying to indoctrinate you. But myth just the same
The bible is a random collection of violent, murderous, utterly immoral fairy tails demanding submission to whatever warlord enforces it.
Galvanic-Response-Ology
Marty clearly was desperate and they love desperate people it’s despicable.
"Surprise! I'm the antichrist!"? LRH finally did confess after all. LOL
The WORD OF GOD when people get together & Learn the Truth. That is the CHURCH. Everything else is FAKE JUNK IF GOD is No in it.?
Listen, no one wants to be rude to you, and we all agree that the COS isn't a church in the strict sense that you define as a church. But no one is interested in your religious OPINION. Your beliefs are just that: yours, and a belief only, not fact, and none to back it up. I defend your right to believe what you want as long as you don't hurt anyone else. That is the definition the COS: harm. That's what we're discussing. Not jesus
...Tommy Davis.
Loved the account by Tony Ortega. The interviewer is completely painful to listen to (not because he is foreign) but I found his questions unecessarily complicated and inarticulate.
HAIL XENU 👽
If you are going to continue immersing yourself in this nonsense, you might as well have just stayed. Its the same story over and over. Sooo what?
Get proof God exists. In Order, Watch: 1. By Fact Reality/Science has Found Proof of the Existence of God. also 2. " I Am God, Jesus Christ in the Flesh" 3. The Great White Throne. This should settle many matters and awaken your spirit.
There are just as many videos documentaries, and movies to prove the opposite, many with very good info from esteemed scientists concerning the roots of our existence to other planets. Christianity is an opinion
B. V
Stopped watching when the discussion veered off onto Trump.
In defense of his good works, he says very little usually, thankfully
Thankfully he doesn't lie. Just says he doesn't know about ties. Which is good and accurate. Im glad he didn't make assumptions.
Can never-Trumpers go 10 minutes without mentioning Trump?
echo Can Trump go a day without tweeting, saying, or doing at least one horrible thing?
What has Trump ever done that's horrible? Won the presidency as a republican? Guilty!
echo I doubt anything I could try to explain to you, you would even consider, unfortunately. I will, however, address one thing about your original comment. The phrase and affiliation, "Never Trump" was coined and used by Republicans who were vowing not to support, endorse, or vote for Trump, not Democrats. That you don't know that speaks volumes....
So no answers, just ad-hominem. Nice!
NOPE. Cause everything is Trump's fault DUH #MAGA
this whole interview sounds like two scientologists trying not to sound like scientologists
OH Tony is anything but. Lol His wife was harassed by the "Church" due to his investigation of them. He's just very informed on the inner workings and verbiage because he doesn't want to speak in ignorance on the topic. And due to having immersed himself in speaking specifically to higher up former members
It's hard to understand how someone could spend so much time investigating and reporting on Scientology yet have such laughable notions about the various methodologies that it covers, and then to add insult to injury start to generate unfounded ideas of one's own based on lack of understanding. So let me introduce at least one correction here:
Scientology auditing is technical in nature and is performed within strict rules and guidelines. One of the rules is that an auditing process is run until a preclear (person being audited) reaches an END PHENOMENA (EP) of the process. End phenomena is determined by a "floating needle" on an E-meter which indicates release of charge/psychological tension related to a given auditing question AND major realizations and cheerful state by the preclear which are called VERY GOOD INDICATORS (VGI's). So no an e-meter is not required to assess whether an EP on the process was reached. Continuing to run a process pass the EP results in an OVERRUN which is known to worsen preclears condition and is considered a gross auditing error and a "suppressive act" by the auditor toward the preclear. There are then corrective auditing that can be done when an overrun in some past auditing had occurred.
So no, a repetitive auditing question in itself is not a cause for any concern, but quite to the contrary can result in some massive gains and insights IF it is applied correctly. A part of successful auditing is to pick what question to ask in the first place.
And no, I am not a Scientologist and I have zero affiliation with the Church. I just invested the time to understand how Scientology works in both good and bad ways.
Eugene K ok if you're an objective investigator...now that you've explained auditing, can you explain disconnection? What it is and why it is?
That's not all there is to auditing as there are different auditing methods, etc. But that would be a longer conversation.
The disconnection that everyone talks about comes out of what is called PTS/SP tech - Potential Trouble Source / Suppressive Person. What you have to understand first is that Scientology is very "multi-dimensional." There are numerous theories and methodologies that Hubbard developed over two decades through 1950's and 1960's and that's the first main dividing line: 1950's tech which includes Dianetics and what I call Spiritual Scientology and 1960's technology which includes Scientology's "ethics tech," its "justice system," organizational policy and the like - much of it directly contradicts and reverses the gains accomplished with 1950's technology but it's all interwoven through a lineup of printed materials and lectures. You have to look through a lot of material in specifics to untangle different aspects of Scientology and separate the good from the bad.
Back onto disconnection.
The general idea behind PTS/SP tech is that if someone is connected to a suppressive person or group, they represent a sort of danger to the organization and so should not be involved in training or processing (receiving auditing) until the situation is handled. This makes sense within "normal reality" that could be generally understood. If someone say, was a member of a criminal gang, then having such a person on lines at the Church would pose a serious liability for obvious reasons of that part of person's life "spilling over" into Church activities. Same thing if someone had a psychotic spouse that could cause harm especially if such a spouse was issuing threats including of physical violence. This is not uncommon even in regular life if you meet somebody who was say doing drugs or connected to some crazy people or whatever - you'd intuit that getting involved with such a person could create problems in your own life.
So even if PTS/SP could be quite reasonable within common sense scenarios, it is taken to a different extreme in Scientology due to Hubbard's own suppressive stance toward anyone merely critical of Scientology.
It's very hard to be so brief on a subject that involves numerous factors that need to be explained, but I'll try.
1) Whereas Dianetics was focused on handling "memory recordings" - mental image pictures, Scientology theory extended the principle to say that reality itself is a sort of "mental image picture" - a complete product of "agreed upon considerations" by all powerful spiritual beings that we are. Basically, one of the main tenants of Scientology is that reality is a product of collective consciousness and has no (independent) existence of its own - hence, the belief in possibility to reach god-like abilities by simply enhancing one's consciousness through Scientology methodology.
2) In logic with this primary "axiom" in Scientology on the nature of reality, a PROBLEM is defined as "intention vs counter-intention" or "postulate vs counter-postulate" - if reality is a product of considerations then it follows that any problem that someone may experience to manifesting one's postulates must be caused by someone else's conflicting postulates.
3) Suppression then is a form of a problem where someone continuously "counter-postulates" against the PTS person - a person connected to such suppression. So merely STATEMENTS contrary to the intentions of a Scientologist or Scientology as an organization are treated as "suppression" due to a belief that considerations are the primary causative factor in the formation of reality. This psychological construct is the same regardless of whether someone is doing Scientology in the Church or a part of "independent field."
Tracking? :)
4) Based on these beliefs, Hubbard setup organizational policy and "machinery" where he eventually stated that the purpose of Scientology "ethics" was to "remove" COUNTER-INTENTIONS AND! OTHER-INTENTIONS from the "environment." So ANYTHING that conflicts with Scientology in any way must ultimately be eliminated. This is pretty scary if you think about it, but all "logically" stemming from an idea that basically ideas (considerations) literary create reality.
5) In line with such Scientology "ethics," Hubbard then instituted "Fair Game" policies that dictate that "suppressive persons" must be "handled" to the point of destroying such a person or group if they refuse to seize their "suppressive acts" which again begins with merely voicing criticism of Scientology or even trying to divert Scientologists into other practices - also a big no no in Scientology.
Are we still talking about Disconnection? That really doesn't seem like a big deal when you take into account a larger "philosophical framework" from which it came out of. "Disconnection" is merely a temporary fix until Scientology became powerful enough to "fully handle" the "suppressive elements" in the environment. But it is basically used to isolate members from any source of conflicting thought with respect to Scientology, and practicing Scientologists take it upon themselves to terminate communication whenever a conflict or disagreement arises. Many ex-Scientologists still operate on the same principle because few people invest the time to taking Scientology apart into its "particles" to understand all the assumptions they've absorbed into their thinking patterns.
So Disconnection ultimately comes out of a basic idea in Scientology that thoughts (considerations) create reality and so "unwanted" or disagreeable thoughts must be handled or avoided because they pose a danger to manifest that unwanted reality especially if more and more people agree on them since "agreement" between spiritual beings brings about a manifestation of "considerations" in reality.
That's not all there is to say, and there are more factors to consider, but this is basically the core of it. If you ever explored New Age groups - they follow similar patterns and will attack or terminate communication based on an idea that "negative thoughts" will cause a manifestation of "negative reality." They just don't have the "organizational machinery" that operates on those beliefs that Hubbard ended up constructing.
Ultimately, the question of Scientology is not an issue of a rogue organization on the lose destroying people's lives - it's an ultimate question on the nature of consciousness and reality and how the basic assumptions in Scientology lead to various "solutions" and ways of thinking.
And despite the fact that Scientology has some flawed basic assumptions about reality which eventually led to some bad organizational policies and attitudes, some of the methods that Hubbard developed for consciousness enhancement during 1950's are simply mind blowing, but unfortunately they get buried underneath all the drama surrounding the later developments like Scientology "ethics" and organizational policies developed through the 60's.
When people first come into Scientology, they get exposed to 1950's stuff like Dianetics which was a true breakthrough in the field of psychotherapy not some b.s. that critics claim it to be and early Scientology that offers processes for enhancement of ability and awareness. THEN an initiate gets indoctrinated into "ethics" and policy from 1960's and it's all over. 1960's era also introduced interrogation techniques (security checks) which became permanently interwoven with beneficial aspects of early auditing techniques. You have to dig into the details of various method to separate bad from the good, and very few people care to make that effort.
Sounds like you drank some koolaid tho
Oh he's definitely drunk the kool-aid. This could almost be LRH speaking. Sounds like an independent Scientologist.
Rathburn got his payoff and now he changed his tune.
You can always join my cult