Woman initiate 75% of divorces and 50% of marriages end in divorce. I work in an industry that most blue collar men make over 100K a year and their wives divorce them all the time.
I applaud your discernment. The opposite of crazy is still crazy. The problem I see with the dominant theme with the red pill community is that it proposes that the solution is to become a low standard, materialistic and amoral male. As a man I do jot intend to sleep with any woman who I am not to consider a high level partner in helping me raise my lineage. One night stands and just sleeping around is for low low value people male of female. Also I am a well to do man in the upper 5 to 10 % but to value myself and/or allow myself to be valued solely based on this is just plain old materialistic and shallow. Treat women like you would like your mother, sister and daughters to be treated. Returning to morals will solve allot of this poisonous environment.
@Vick Murray I've almost been married for 20 years with three children in high school. My wife isn't from this country which helps a lot. I do worry a lot for my children. Maybe if we got rid of no fault divorce or made 50/50 custody with no child support the default position in a divorce things might turn around. If women "mostly" wouldn't get a cash out and steady income then they wouldn't want to initiate so many divorces. I don't know what the future holds but I think things will get a lot worse before they get better.
@@alexxander304 AGREEED! God did not give men the short end of the stick when he said what he said. I will say men with morals need to uphold their attraction and masculinity like the immoral men but just don’t do what they do. The same way church girls can learn to be more attractive but don’t lower to the IG thot standards.
@Vick Murray Yes the baby boomer generation didn’t have femininity channels and masculinity channels. Hopefully this generation will do a better job now that we have recourses such as The Roommates and Chloe_ that can put men and women in there place.
This was the best discussion on modern day marriage on the internet. A complete breakdown of pros and cons were discussed respectfully despite some differences in opinion.
maybe start putting women of value on your SHOW..instead of showing one side. i know that wont get views and doesnt bring in $$$$...bring some smart girls who are not onlyfans creator...
You guys got schooled a little bit. You've been in an echo chamber for far too long. Bring girls who can debate better on your show, not the regular bimbos you have on.
Honestly the thing is these days most of the time women work and do house stuff while the man only work honestly I believe marriage should be about sharing responsibility with your partner eaqualy or to a way that both are happy with
@@iamacat9400 But that's not totally correct either. Modern men share more of the household chores than they ever did in the past. It may not be equal, but is closer to equal than before.
@@iamacat9400naw, men are providers, but that means we set the infrastructure of the marriage…if you think provider only means money then you’re lost 🤷🏿
Two parent households are ideal! Having both my parents was essential to my development. I can’t imagine not having my father in my life. Even though he was stoic and didn’t say much until I got into my late teens, his presence gave me security and some of my fondest moments were times I spent with my father. I remember being sad when my older sister went to her first school dance and I couldn’t go. So my dad took me to this pop up carnival and spent the evening riding rides and playing carnival games. He won me this teddy bear that I still have to this day. He usually took the stance of letting me just cry when I didn’t get what I want, but in that moment he chose to be empathetic because it’s what I needed in that moment. Having a father is a beautiful thing and it saddens me that a lot of people don’t have that joy in their life.
@Lo Livingston a female can’t control her own emotions let alone control a son and a daughter n make sure they don’t go down a bad path, which most kids with single mothers do, obviously each parent have their own role for a kids development but for a female to not turn out like how 90% of females are she gotta have a good male figure in her life
Same, can't imagine not having my father in my childhood and life. I just wrapped a Father's Day gift this morning, feeling so thankful. I can't imagine raising children without a father in the home, that wouldnt do them or the father any justice at all. Kudos to these guys for trying to help young men towards their goals of marriage/children/ wife/ protection of resources etc. Well done!
I agree. Having a father in my life has done so much for me. His care always made me feel safe while having fun. I love having those memories. My father is very stoic as well but I know that when things are difficult and even when it involves men I can talk to my father about what went wrong and my mistakes. Always happy the best advice and makes me realize a lot. My father has always given me the freedom to grow independently but has always been there to catch me if I need support. I can’t imagine not having a dad tbh. My parents have been married 33 years and I can see how much they love each other. Seeing that lets me know there is hope
The problem began when people began to view marriage as a contract under the government instead of what it was meant to be, which is a covenant made by two people to each other and to God. Marriage is not so disposable when you're breaking vows to God.
Tracy Curtis - incorrect. Marriage has always been a legal contract. It is fairly recent in the last couple hundred years maybe less that it became about romantic love.
Certified Chaos- the problem is that may not be up to you. If she leaves you and you have a child chances are she will find another man who will be a part of your kids life.
@@certifiedchaos4643 The government can legally keep you away from your child if the mother want it to happen. You can fight it aka family court but you are going to spending a lot of 💰 on lawyer and fees. Most men can’t afford to go through it & eventually gives up. The government as a whole is corrupted towards kids & marriage when it come to men. That is truth
@@DreDaGodSon I get that u have some very strong points. Usually they will only keep you away from your child if they can prove that your unfit unstable or unreliable,. You might pay child support but you would have visitation and even further joint custody
@@certifiedchaos4643 That is when they hit you with. You only get see the child on the weekends on top of the fact you paying child support. I understand what you mean but in today’s society women have a lot of control/power.
Exactly. The world has strayed away from what God intended initially with creation which shouldn’t be correlated with religion b/c religion has done its deed in twisting the spiritual essence of the union that was vividly conveyed in Genesis chapters 1-3.
Let me paint a picture. Husband makes 80k a year wife is a stay at home mother. 2 kids in the family. Between car payments and mortgage the family lives slightly better than paycheck to paycheck. The man works 60 hrs a week and is tired at the end of the week so he may not be as engaging as the woman wants. So she decides that she feels like she can find a better man elsewhere. Talks with a divorce lawyer and files for divorce. Judge orders man to leave the home so the mother and children have a place to live. The man is now paying all the bills as normal and has no extra money to rent another place. Just during the court proceedings this man that makes 80k a year is now homeless. Homeless because a judge orders it. This is reality people!
Let me paint a picture. You’re young and thinking about buying your first car, but you watch the news and hear about a bad car accident that killed multiple people... Do you still purchase your car or do you live in fear on what can possibly happen? You cannot live your life in fear of the worst scenario or you will never be successful at anything, including relationships.
@@TheCaptain773 Other risks can be managed through insurance and other means, that's why the phrase "calculated risk" was coined. Getting married is like shorting a stock without any stops. It's gonna hurt my guy. With a car you have considerable control; with marriage you don't. You can't direct what the other person does, especially when the law encourages it. Good luck!
@@TheCaptain773 I see the point you are trying to make. And to answer your question. If I saw a news report that a new model car, has a defect from the factory, and about 50% of all cars produced will have an acident in the first 10 years. Leading to variable degrees of damage for the driver. No I would not buy the car. You must be insane to do it. XD
@@reebok7317 Thats true, but women can preted to be "good" very well. Sometimes they even turn efminist 5 years into the marriage. You can vet her all you want, but you can never be 100% sure of the long term outcome.
Facts! 💯 That’s really what’s missing today and why things aren’t working out. Today a lot of people don’t know God, therefore, don’t fear God and then wonder why things don’t work out. He’s like…“Hey, you left me out of your life. You know, the life I gave you? The plans I have for you, which are so much more fulfilling and better than you could ever accomplish on your own.” But I digress. 🤷🏽♀️
The worst thing that could happen to dating was social media. It’s destroyed how we interact with one another. And the avg woman thinks she’s better than the avg man
I respect both arguments but yet myself I lean towards not getting married. I’m surprised Hafeez is giving women the benefit of the doubt when most of the time they leave based on current emotion and not logic. Even my brothers fiancé is leaving him and bare in mind they have 2 kids and a home together... Her reason essentially is that she’s bored. See what I mean? Personally I’m not going to just ignore the amount of evidence out there just because of fantasy Hope. This ain’t 1950 bruh, The dating landscape nowadays for finding a wife just ain’t it. Maybe in foreign countries it’s better but definitely not in the West
But then how do you plan on raising your next generation? Or are you content with forfeiting all of the fruits of your life’s work over to the state when you die? If your answer to the latter is yes, then by all means don’t get married.
@@acenine8149 as men we have the value of time, the current climate isn't ideal for bringing kids into this world imo, if I find that later in life there is a better opportunity i.e. laws change then yeah I'll bring kids into this world, if not, then thats the sacrifice that will have to be made
@@eshesimua If capable men such as yourself opt not to have kids, then you are leaving society to be governed by the products of lesser men, dooming it to mediocrity or possible collapse. I see where you’re coming from, but that is a defeatist attitude.
Yeah, we cannot dismiss the dismal imbalance in treatment of men in marriages and the ABSOLUTE TOTAL ABSENCE of AUTHORITY bestowed upon us by the institution. 🖐🙅♂️
Well get a prenup and marry a wonderful woman who will join your team or a religious marriage as they mentioned. Why push NO marriage at all on a platform? I could see if there were absolutely NO ways a man can protect himself. The truth is Fresh & Fit just want to be bachelors with no extra “burden”. Even if the laws changed over night you think these guys would change their minds??
@@badem Not in most cases actually. It's rare that prenups lawyers draft up get thrown out in court. It's literally their job to have a legally binding document, so they would be in a lot of hot water if they couldn't manage to do that. There can be one or two things the judge chooses to not enforce, usually individual things that were bought after the marriage etc, but it's rare that they are thrown out altogether.
I agree with fresh, I was with my wife since I was 17.5 years old, for a total of 22 years and 4 months, before the day I confronted her about a text I accidentally seen while turning off her wake up alarm, sure enough in less than 1 minute, she was asking for a divorce, our son was 16.5 and daughter 9.5 I would have live to finish raising them under the same roof, I tucked them in even at that age until the day I caught her in a car with him and she kicked me out of my own house, now I'm going to court soon to lose my shirt after I did what society asked of me and was a good provider and father. now my life is ruined and I'm depressed. never again, no man in the world should ever get married is a losing game, as far as for kids being raised by both parents, it could be done I see and pick up my kids everyday, I will never stay away, it was all I ever wanted was to be a good dad, like I have. but times have changed
Sorry to hear about that! I have a question for you though, would you have stayed if she didn’t kick you out and ask for a divorce? Maybe just lived in the same house separated but for the sake of the kids, if it were up to you?
heck yes I would have stayed, for the sake of my kids, but she asked me to leave ones I caught her in his car, and she was too embarrassed and I was being very hostile, so rather than deal with the law since I have alot to lose, plus stuff, it was not worth contesting her.
The roommate guys seem a bit clueless on the nature of today's women. I have 2 friends that was married 20 yrs & 23 yrs. Both wives left bc they felt they missed out on their youth. One was in an affair for 5 yrs & once their house was almost paid off she filed and wanted him to buy her half out & left with her bf. They are rewarded for bad behavior.
But how would you debate Hafeez, though? As much trash talking and brain washing Myron does on his show, that was his PERFECT time to go at it with Hafeez. He FAILED MISERABLY. Esp if you go on Patreon and watch the whole thing The Roommates won by far. Not once did F&F mention anything about “female nature”. They failed y’all in this debate. 🤣🤣🤣
@@diplomat2623 the roommates literally denied divorces and how women suddenly leave and take half. Hafeez literally called it a myth at the end of this, then when he went on the Fresh and Fit podcast he got a dose of reality that he was too afraid to see. I actually am pretty convinced though most of these redpill guys have lived in a fairy tale land most of their lives.
Great discussion, I've been married 21.5 years with no intention of divorce, We've raised 2 beautiful daughters and taught them what their value is and showed them the true relationship of a man and a woman. Marriage has not been without struggle as with any relationship. But like they said marriage is the best way to raise children to give them the best outcome in life.
14:27 I've never heard anyone make the argument that alphas will steal a married mother of 4. But, I have heard stories of women leaving marriages to live like it's Hot Girl Summer.
Make your choices VERY carefully people. You can get all the information and advice from these communities but at the end of the day it's your life and your choices to make.
I think this was a great discussion. One thing that seems to always get left out is that most men are not HV and probably never will be high value, so the whole money thing won’t be a big deal to be honest. This group is the 80 percent. This group most likely will get married at some point and that marriage will most likely be 50/50 or close to it! With this, the worst things that’s going to happen is child support if y’all were to separate. You would have to deal with that regardless even if you never get married, but have a kid.
I understand hafeez, but I can't commit to agreeing with him. Because when it's all said and done times change and so does everything in that time. We see how modern women are changing to "Protect themselves" and it is only right that men begin to actively think about actually protecting themselves from this feminist idea of women "protecting themselves". Because Let's be honest some men can handle the ruination of their lives better than others. The ones among us that handle it the worst, will inevitable find ways to inflict that harm onto themselves, others and wider society and I think THAT RISK in really one to be mitigated before anything else. Yes Red pills in moderation can be healthy, but like anything else too much of one thing is good for nothing.
Here’s the thing happiness and success in a marriage isn’t within your power. As a man you need to put your energy into your happiness through things you control. I see what haffes is saying but woman can choose and they can ruin this thing you want so bad so don’t focus on happiness from something you don’t control.
Some laws need to be changed. It's been all to the women legally speaking for so very long that the deal is absolute s**t for men. Marriage is so disempowering to men that it is no surprise at all the red pill community is as strong as it is.
Only disempowering with the wrong type of woman in the wrong type of relationship. Marriage is the only strong basis for building good families and communities. These red pill talking points are shallow and self-centered and dogmatic based of the negative experiences of men.
@@CeeceeH1819 it wouldn’t be so negative if the results of marriage didn’t happen so often and with woman leaving in most cases and taken half and even sometimes more if the marriage laws were not in place men would not have a problem
You're so typical of a woman@@CeeceeH1819 You still hold men 100% accountable if a marriage doesn't work out. "...the wrong type of women...." So he and he only is responsible here, never any ownership of the woman's behavior. More and more men are making rational choices in opting out of that State legal contract while women still overwhelmingly want to end up in marriage. You also need to understand something regarding men; they have a measure of "choice" as well. Shallow and self-centered? Sounds like you're describing women. You would do well for some serious self reflection as your comment gives away your complete unawareness of men and the world they live in, the obligations and responsibilities society and women demand of them, and just how little you and your sisters bring anymore. Strong, independent, and empowered? That's the bottom baseline for men and even at that level men are criticized for not supporting others and considered losers.
I agree with you Hafeez. Married my college best friend. Both of our biological parents have been married 30+ years, and I think that makes a huge difference. We both had exes from single parent households, & way too many problems. We got married when we were 24. I became a SAHM and my husband and I have been building since then. He started making 6 figures when we were 28 which allowed for more resources to build my business but keeping the focus on the kids & home. I also think having God at the center of your marriage is key!
I agree with Hafeez here. The fabric of a society is a strong family unit. If we have a society of broken families, single people, single mothers, our society is completely dead. What well functioning society are you aware of that doesn’t have a strong family unit?? I can’t name any... People need to know that marriage is biblical. A lot of the issues with marriage can be solved with choosing the right woman. I am aware of the downfalls of marriage as well. I think there are things that need to be done about that as well.
I disagree with Hafeez, for the average guy marriage will cripple you in terms of advancing your life. Don't it until you are atleast 35 years, but ideally 40 years old. Most men are not emotionally ready until that time. You have to be in your career or business for atleast 5 to 10 years. Have enough asset $250k which should include real estate, your home or rental properties. Date as many women as you can and no cohabitation unless you plan on having children with a woman. Most average guys cannot afford the pitfalls of divorce without some form of mitigation ie. Prenup.
Your expectations for men are way too high. It is simply not possible for every man to achieve these things. Someone has to be the construction worker, the plumber, the carpenter, etc., and none of these totally average and acceptable men are gonna have even half of that. Most people can barely pay off one mortgage let alone multiple. Let’s also not forget that many men just simply aren’t smart enough to achieve such things. Some people are just average and that’s okay. Where I’m going with this is that your standard is unobtainable for most men. Additionally, waiting until you’re 40 to even begin trying to start a family is asinine. Do you want to be in a nursing home before your children give you grandchildren? Are you going to have the energy to change a diaper at 2 in the morning when you’re 50?? No, of course not. Men may have a longer time table than women to start a family, but it is not infinite.
If you get married at 40 and have children after 40 those sleepless nights are going to be a lot harder than if you settle down at 27. 😂 I’m speaking from experience, I wish I had married young and had kids earlier in life. Having kids means you will not get enough sleep for at least the first year or two. Also, becoming a father will help most men mature and grow up. I agree that men need to focus on their career for a few years before getting married. All I’m saying is don’t wait too long. Kids need a Dad who is young and energetic enough to play with them, that gets harder after 40.
@@thefuturista7836 that just means did not set up yourself up appropriately for that. At 27 way too early to be able to provide the best life for a family. At 27 you should be working, going to school and setting yourself up in the best career as possible. Hence, you should be able to take jobs in other states or overseas, difficult to do that with a family. I had a kid young and got custody when he was 2 years old, I would not recommend that for any young man do that. I missed out on many opportunities which I can actually quantify. I should have taken my dad lesson he has me and my sibling in his 40's. I will not be waking up at 3am for a baby. I make enough now to hire babysitter.
I believe marriage and kids will cripple you as a man it's a dead trap in both scenarios. The women usually wins both situations in the courts and it becomes a financial headache on the man when separation happens. I would suggest men who aren't in either situation yet not to get into that trap. Remain single or have a girl with no marriage attachment and kids and you will lead to a better life going forward.
Why would a woman leave an alpha male ? Because she likes other men too. We still have this idea that women are those angelic beings, so perfect and so beautiful. When in reality they're just like men with the same urges.
Because it is really dirty macking and holding women unaccountable by blaming men by telling them you're just not man enough that's why she acted out instead of holding her to the standards of a grown adult.
Hafeez... Here's a slow clap of my hands for you brother👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾! Extreme feminism and extreme red pill content all seem to miss the mark when it comes to the necessity and advantages of a stable, two household family with a feminine wife and masculine husband. I do understand that the system we live in is very intentional in destroying the marriages, two-parent households, healthy families, healthy masculine males, healthy feminine women...
If you are 1 metre away from a barrier and you still moving at 300km/he, for you to stop in time, you need extreme brakes and to dissipate a lot of energy.. same as feminism and red pill.. red pill is the brake to feminism (feminism is the car 1metre away from a barrier still moving at 300km/HR), the mark you talk about will be attended to when the feminism gets under control
@Adam A. first off most men don’t make enough to pay alimony. Secondly, you could potentially pay child support but you should get a lawyer and try to fight for custody.
Nobody is saying that it's not beneficial to the children. We all know it is. But there is no incentive by the family court to make marriages thrive. And when the marriages do not thrive women benefits and men lose a whole LOT.
@Adam A. I’m sorry, if you can’t pay for a lawyer I suggest you find the money. Borrow money. Go fund me because without a lawyer you will be worse off.
That's the main final point. These fucken laws are what make women go out and divorce a guy because "she's not happy anymore". They know they're getting a good deal if they divorce and they won't be on the street...so they do it constantly (over 75% of divorces are initiated by women). Unless y'all divorce and come up with a mutual agreement, which doesn't happen often.
Myron said something that was on the bullseye. Divorce laws have not caught up with feminism. They are rooted in the 50's to punish the man for leaving. In my opinion, that is how things could be somewhat normal if men can genuinely banned together to target the changing of laws.
As an African woman living in the US, I believe one of the solution can be removing the “no fault divorce law” and allowing a divorce only under the condition there is proof of abuse or infidelity. And if the woman still want a divorce outside of those 2 reasons, she should be the one who gets “penalized” and vice versa. Maybe this will create less incentive for people to break their marriage contract 🤷🏾♀️
i agree with you but alot of women already make false claims of physical and verbal abuse during divorce. So they will use abuse as a way to get out of a marriage contract regardless.
Paola Isimbi- in principle I agree. I think that neither the man or woman should benefit too much in a divorce. Neither party should be rewarded or financially damaged. Leave with what you brought into the relationship.
In my 39 years of life. I’ve seen far to many men get scammed by a wife that wanted to jump back on the carousel. Thank god I took all my red pills before I ever married myself.
@D Goings I get u but so do fuccbois until they get to smash. So we must keep it even and take accountability for men choosing bad spouses and not being able to see through the facade
@Vick Murray No. The government in America was not involved in marriage until 1913. The church was not involved in the basics of marriage everywhere either. People could take partners in front of their family/tribe and proclaim they were staying together. That's literally all they had to do.
Getting married and having kids is beautiful, but for God’s sakes please pick the right woman fellas. You need to check her past relationships, financial history, and get advice from an older man; bring her around your family; especially the women in your family. They will let you know if something is off with her.
I think it's good to get married but just not go thru the system and get a marriage license. Women KNOW they hold the power once you get one, even if you sign a prenup. If y'all want to go to a priest and have him bless your union then that's great. Just don't sign no damn papers. I know in some states you're automatically considered married if you've been together for a specific period of time. so just leave those states.
When I first learned what a prenuptial agreement was, I questioned why marriage even exists if people are going to break up eventually. I still do to this day. Marriage is supposed to be "till death do us part." Divorce is too common nowadays and women will file for it 80 percent of the time. Marriage, in today's society, isn't a risk worth taking if you're a man.
Thank you I never understood and woman always say they want marriage because it shows commitment but aren’t you suppose to be committed as you in a relationship and plus you can still not be committed on marriage and also people love to throw god as a reason but they don’t know that getting divorce is a sin
The argument that “no other alpha will take your girl” is a specious one. The term “take your girl” does not have to mean that he made her this new alpha’s wife. He could just have sex w/ her a couple of times and now your relationship is ruined. He took her from you in the sense that had sex w/ her. Women who are married to powerful, wealthy, alpha men will still have sex w/ other men under the right circumstances.
Like as if powerful, high value, wealthy men don’t have the same options as their wives! Notice all these male rappers and sports starts sleeping around on their wives lol Stop kidding yourselves 🤦🏽♀️🤣
@@yve4889 so are you trying to invalidate my point? Im not understanding why you asked the question. At the end of the day as a woman I never hear emphasis on supporting young girls at women to Navigate life in patriarchy. No one ever talks about raising daughters and offering them understanding and support.
@@dlitefulone No no I completely agree with you. By "Only a little bit" I just meant that I wasn't hating or anything. Sorry if it came off the wrong way😅 I also really want to hear their take on raising daughters as well.
Please note girls - The title of 'wife' will not be worth it if you don't want to submit to a man. You will grow to resent him and this will end in divorce. Not everyone needs to get married and reproduce.
Myron is more grounded in this discussion. When debating, the more emotional person loses. With that being said they’re all gems in the space and much appreciated.
Agreed. I grew up in a loving 2 parent household and it has impacted me in more ways than I can say. I grew up seeing a good marriage with mostly traditional values, and I can see the value. Also, I dont thing women would suddenly want to just up and leave the person shes built a life and family with for no reason, that wouldnt make sense. Especially if she is getting what she wants out of the marriage as far as stability, support, love, and children. Great discussion overall.
I agree that being in a stable 2 parent household is best for children. However, I don't believe the concept of marriage is necessarily needed. I know plenty of long-term couples with or without children that have been going strong for a long period of time. Also, I feel it's worth point out that there are more and more men (and women) in the modern era that do not want children and/or do not want to get married (myself included). I do, however, want a long-term/lifelong relationship with the right woman. I'm not naive though, I know this reduces my pool (but the heart wants what it wants). However, I'm also prepared to be ride solo through life it comes to it. I'm not talking about people over 40; but based on all of my family, friends, colleagues, friends of friends, and what I see on the internet... I can count the number of long-term couples of both hands that I personally know. Then if I remove the ones where I say: I don't want that... I can count them on one hand! Of course, I know many couples still together over 40... but these people are from a different generation. So unless you find a high-quality, like-minded woman (and be a high-quality man) and take steps to protect yourself, I feel it's very risky to get married and/or to have children. But the bigger question is... are people willing to take the risk??
That’s a marriage.. ( at least to me anyways).. Signing paperwork is having your marriage recognised by the state.. but living with someone and sharing finances is the same thing as marriage
@@adamstark1850 total agree but when people say avoid marriage but still live with a women and have kids they aren’t being true! Coach Greg adams talks about a free can’t lifestyle..No marriage and No cohabitation! If you are gonna live with someone and have kids marriage makes sense.. Cheaper healthcare, cheaper insurance, Rights to your children, increased status etc!! If you wanna be free be free don’t half ass it 🤮😂
@@NyakzOTSD That makes complete sense! I feel if you're going to have a long-term partner, regarding what want you to want or don't... you both need to be on the same page, reading from the same book! I feel having some deep discussions early on can save a lot of time-wasting and pain down the road.
This was awesome!!!! Great arguments Hafeez, thank you so much for bringing them up! I have had the same questions and disagreements with fresh and fit.
I think less men will get married in the future so I don’t think it’s accurate what was said. If the 80/20 rule continues to apply and some have said it’ll go to 90/10 that’ll leave plenty of singe unmarried men. It’ll include those that don’t want to marry and also those that do but can’t because they fall in the 80-90%.
Always strive to be a better man, you cannot avoid heartache and experience, it will happen. If men want to get married, ok do it but understand the risks and do your best to limit the backlashes.
Fresh & Fit brought me here and introduced me to The Roommates. Great Guys, I hope you both come on the show again soon. That was a great discussion on lil loaded, deletions, men's issues etc. Keep up the good work gentlemen. 👊🏽💯🔥
Sorry, but you can be optimistic all you want. I go with logic and numbers and not my “feelings” with life commitments like that. With FreshandFit on this alllll day. Marriage with ironclad prenup is the MOST ill give a woman. Didn’t get to 33 with no kids or divorce by letting my feelings dictate my choices. Respectfully, keep up the good work tho roommates 👍
spot on. 100%, Roomates guys are blue pill idealists. 50% divorce rate. 70% initiated by women. lowest levels of marriage since 1865. THESE ARE FACTS! And the one on the right goes why would she wanna leave to get a payday - HOW NAIEVE. The multibillion dollar divorce industry is built on this! Battling for finances. Im sure on first dance on marriaeg day she wasn't plotting, but the humans change and women go off emotion and there is no fault divorce now. As though humans dont change minds or emotions. They need to watch divorcecorp documentary on netflix. they living in some 1950's dreamland
You sign it in advance, recorded w representation present. They’ll ask a few questions like are you feeling pressured and are you under the influence of any drugs. That should be agreed upon up front and if she’s shaky about it well then the medium is the message.
The only way to ‘minimize risk’ is not to enter into such a lop-sided contract. Marry religiously or spiritually. Why do you need a contract with the state? The women demand it because they know that’s power for them.
Hafeez, your point would be good if women were guided by rationale, but they make decisions based on emotions. Marriage with children is exhausting and women are prone to quitting in difficult times. What happens is as a couple brings up their kids enough not to have to sit with them 24/7 and then when they have a moment to breathe, their bonds crumble under the exhaustion and women see their men as the reason why they suffer, then see the "golden parachute" ready for them to get away from what they perceive as some kind of patriarchal tyrrany and most of the time they take it, which is proven by the statistics. 50% marriages fail, 80% out of that is out of women's initiative. Society made men weak and women unfaithful, which lead to that sad status quo.
I move more towards Hafeez than F&F. I think the important thing is that if you are going to get married you have to do the work and vet the woman. You need to know her family, her past, her values all that. It means you also have to raise your standards when choosing a woman as well. Which means you may go without for a while in the process of looking for that woman. Fresh talks about a woman just changing her mind. This sounds silly but don't marry a woman that will do that. I totally agree that the divorce laws haven't caught up. No doubt. One thing is to act like your future children have a choice in who their mother is.
I like this debate, but you guys need to ask men who have actually went through the marriage cycle. These men have done their job, i.e provide, protect, etc., in the marriage but the woman leaves for the simple fact that’s she not happy. And when she’s asked why she’s not happy on several occasions, she moves the goal post every time. My point is if the man mistreats the wife to the point where she can die if she stays any longer, I can understand that she wants to leave. But if the man is good to her, does his duty but she’s still not happy because he couldn’t get a 10 bedroom mansion or because of some womanism mantra, or for being delusional, and she gets rewarded for that while breaking the family apart then that’s very wrong of her. Hence, there’s needs to be a limit to what women can use as an excuse to break up a family, especially when there are kids involved.
That would be a great experience. Talk to 10 guys who've been married and divorced and let them share their experiences. They would have to married at least 7 years or something.
No, they leave cause they lose sexual attraction to you. Cause while your providing and protecting you’re forgetting to make her vagina wet through charm and being on your masculine. It’s not rocket science
point blank, a model of cooperation between man and woman is necessary. so both boys and girls grow up knowing how to treat each other, how to live with each other and how to compliment each other.
@@diegomagellan No it’s not, that scripture is for people who want to only have sex after marriage but who can’t stand abstinence with each other any longer
Hafeez Tends to use low hanging fruit for his argument. So after the rebuttal of all the risk and reward about marriage he goes into the while you can't completely 100% eliminate risk that's not what was being talked about but he asked a question in that way in order to make his point
In all fairness Myron & Fresh was WEAK in their debate. What did they really say that would get The Roommates’ minds to second guess their stand? Like really?
Its a womans job to raise children to be good human beings, its a man job to raise children to be a good man/woman in whichever society you live in. It may sound similar but its actually two different things
People who have yet to invest in themselves, therapeutically, physically, emotionally and mentally shouldn't get married. Maybe, We learn what we require in a relationship, to maintain a relationship while dating and while courting. However, too many people are looking for another to complete them and when a person doesn't match up to this completely unrealistic expectation, they leave still caught in the ideology that another person outside of themselves can and will complete them. So on and on they go.. only finding the continued pattern of emptiness. I'll tell you like this, Treat yourself as if you are someone you can take care of. When this is aligned in thyself, meeting people and courting people will show you how someone moves about themselves because now you have a compass of how you move about yourself..." And theeeen".... You'll see how someone's actions and the way they move about and around you. Do they treat you like you treat yourself, or better???? The women, I think these gentlemen are talking about have been taught and drilled from small age that men come rescue them. The messaging over the decades is mixed.
@Vick Murray Question. You say that women expect men to be traditional but do they get it? Its only unfair on one party when they are actually being traditional and the other party is not.
@Hyun Kim Thank you but I watch these channels so I already know the reasons. My question though was based on the fact that a traditional household only really works when both part take. Women should not expect traditional men if they do not want to perform the role of a traditional wife if given the choice. If a man meets a woman who is willing to fully perform that role, he does need to be able to cover the majority of expenses to free her up up to do that. Add taking care of small children it is more hours than any full-time job. I am not from US, I live in the UK. I can't speak for everyone but most people I know work and share the expenses. In London, you mostly need two incomes to get a mortgage. I'm hearing a lot about feminism from these videos but in my life experience the main impact I see for most is that women can get jobs. It is not viable for women to depend on future partners for survival and the ability to earn an income in necessary for an adult. The issues seem to stem from arrogance and ego of women who have a high income. There are still plenty of women working in low paid professions such a service, retail and childcare. Then you have the women who just want to get by off their looks (Insta girls/sugar babies) who in my opinion are the least likely to cook and clean. Then you have those who work in well paid careers like myself and demanding but feminine roles like nursing and midwifery. For me, things were hard growing up even with 2 working parents. I thought stay at home wives for rich people so did not expect that to be an option for me. I know only 1 person who is a housewife/stay home mother and what she does would not be possible with a FT job. I love to cook and I need to live in a clean environment so those things are a pleasure to me. I also like to look good for my man and spend time for him. What makes me nervous is still being able to do all these things and having to work while raising children, I am a woman but I am still a human being.
@Hyun Kim Fair assumption since the video is based on the US. Even if you can find ways to get married without involving the government, there are clearly problems to resolve between men and women. I understand that men are fed up and need to vent. But when you are done the only way to get a solution is to look at both sides and find a middle ground.
@Hyun Kim If they want to be single then that would be true. But happily single men aren't going to spend hours watching videos about women. I didn't say that men need women but obviously both genders are required to reproduce men.
At 37...my ex girlfriend (divorced, single mom) was not interested in signing a pre-nup...she asked why I was making the idea of marriage a 'business transaction'. I broke up with her shortly thereafter. Not today satan!! 🤣
I would tell my daughter to get married and tell my son NOT to get married. The system is broken. It isn't that women will be looking for that big pay day, it is that she now holds the leverage over you, because at any moment if she is unhappy with you she can get rewarded for leaving. And women will act on this with emotional before logical. And when it comes to hypergamy, women want better. This doesn't only mean they will leave you for something better, this also means that they will leave you if you don't become better. Every time a women says she wants a man who is ambitious, all that means is that she wants a man who will be better than the man he is today. If she wants to constantly keep improving in lifestyle this is possible, but unlikely for most people. Most women leave men, not because of infidelity, but because of money. Money=expectations. She isn't getting what she expected, Therefore she leaves. Are there women out there who are marriage material. Absolutely. But every day there is less of them, that is why the marriage rate is at the lowest in recorded history. Most men will Not be married we we get into our later years. The trend is going the other way.
I wanted Hafeez to be right but he nulled his own argument as soon as he said 5-10%. That immediately made it clear that it's less likely these guys are going to even meet women who are suitable to marry. So from the jump, you're talking to a minority of men whereas the opposing p.o.v. addresses the majority.
Damn, these are Men right here, being able to exchance ideas and point of views even when they are not going in the way of each other, without getting mad, listening and acknowledging each others point, I luv to see that !
I understand fresh and fit point of view. As a woman I can confidently say that most women these day are not wife material. Hell I wasn’t wife material until I met my husband. He trained me to become the woman I am to day. I would advise men to look for a woman who is coachable and will listen to what you say. Also vet her well, ask her critical questions during the relationship phase. Repeat those questions over the time to make sure she is not lying. Observe her actions. And last but not least, don’t marry a needy or rebellious woman.
For a man there's also a downside to that. In that "training" she will be docile and accept his boundaries because she "loves" him but one must also consider what is her true nature. If she's doing all that just because of "love", it will eventually fail over time. As time goes by she will feel those compromises as toxic restrictions. That's why many comments here say: "she changed after X years, after kids etc. It's because she never really wanted that life, she was in a "phase" for it and wanted to "try" it. In conclusion if a woman in her 20's doesn't have as her life goal to be a wife/mother, it's simply not her thing.
I love this podcast everytime I need to understand something valuable in life hafis specifically can explain it in a way that makes sense. And it’s really important things
While what those two men say is true, it has very little utility in life. We know the modern generation of women have lost their femininity, so what? I’ll find a women who is feminine, I’ll find a women who wants to be my complement. It’s more productive to just avoid the modern woman than to complain about her all the time.
I mean you have the whole world to look at, so why are you just stuck in the US. If you are bothered by the women there, just go to the other continents and find you a decent feminine woman to start a family with.
Exactly. It’s sad too many men constantly complain and complain without realising that they are men, make your own path. If the women around u are ass, go somewhere where they’re not
The thing the roommates guy on the left doesn't seem to understand is that women are incentivised to leave, ESPECIALLY with alpha males because they have the most money. So, prenuptial agreements are very important.
Loved the discussion. I will say this though: part of the problem with the red pill community and the women they pursue is that even when they did find the one to marry, they didn't realize that growing in your marriage is the hardest part. Yes, you could divorce, yes it won't always be good, but theres a reason we have counseling for engaged AND married couples. For anyone having these issues, I'd encourage you to go. And for my Christians, PLEASE find a pastor (doesnt even have to be yours) who can sit and hear your issues or a licensed counsellor who can put you on a biblical path. I personally believe that is the way marriages stay together (doesnt mean the rest doesnt apply to non-christians though)
Modern Women: Making thousands of sandwiches a day for $7.25 an hour at Subway is EMPOWERING. Also Modern Women: Making a sandwich for your spouse is DEMEANING.
What Hafeez said about not wanting to deal with a 25 year old at 50, and also not wanting to deal with these 40-something year old single mothers is spot on. That’s probably the clearest reasoning here.
The trouble with feelings is that the they do not last. Marrying for love is great story making. But if feelings don’t last then why will the marriage. And woman feelings are generally more flippant than mens. Hence most divorces made by women.
Then you don’t have a society. I don’t think you guys understand what the nuclear family has done to build the country you live in. That’s the reason why it’s so important. In order for you to even say that you would have to have a better system in place to keep the society and its core stable. Stop conflating monogamy and the institution of marriage and civil unions, if you are. The number qualified women, are just as rare as the number of HVM men and it should be that way.
Nobody knows why women do what they do. All we know is that when a relationship crumbles, they are the ones who choose to leave almost 80% of the time. In terms of another alpha stealing your woman, it’s not that. The incoming alpha isn’t here to take her as his. He’s simply here to smash and women are often oblivious to the underlying intent of his whispers of sweet nothings. That’s why a lot try to return to past relationships after reality hits.
The fear is that as she gets older the alpha will F her, dump her, and she'll come running back to you. You see this in hospitals all the time with married nurses and some of the doctors.
Exactly i prefer the roommates than fresh and fit opinions on the subject you can feel that The roomates are high value men...Myron said i would have a muslim wedding but women look for security first and personnally i will never live with a man who can ditch me with a simple sentence ( in a muslim wedding a simple" i repudiate you" from a man end the marriage) and risking raising a child on my own...so where is the security that they will provide ? On the other sides i can understand why men don't want to get married anymore especially high value men, the risk is very high you need to protect your assets and still you take women can challenge a prenup especially if like Myron and fresh you want to cheat openly... Fresh and fit podcast is really trashy and show everything that is wrong with society 19 yo drunk women advertising their onlyfans...If you want good advice from a male perspective ask a pastor a Imam or someone with a good autority and morals and value who have a successfull wedding...
As a 27-year-old practicing Catholic woman I love that this conversation is being had on a secular platform. There is a good amount of research done about the benefits of marriage for wellbeing of individuals (physical and mental) as well as the wellbeing of a society. If we all have this perspective that marriage is not worth the risk and that it will be better to just sleep around with multiple partners, what kind of world are we creating? One of selfishness, lack of morals, lack of commitment and constant restlessness. “The family is the basic cell of society” and guess what? Children we be born without marriage or not, and if most people are not willing to make marriage work than unfortunately many children will continue growing up in homes without stable parental figures as Hafeez was stating. Thank you for having these important conversations!! Keep having them!
I’ve never understood men that condemned marriage on one hand and then on the other, condemned women for having children out of wedlock. Marriage is ideal. Healthy two parents households are ideal. Put together a prenup whilst you are your partner are still in love and on good terms. Review the prenup yearly and If your marriage fails, there will be less room for vindictive behaviour.
Ive seen women have tantrums over prenups lmao also women control access to sex "no means no" anything else is literally illegal its really on her for not sleeping with a marriage minded man.
@@constant1991 boy…. I dunno then. Sounds straightforward to me. Deal with women who hold the same belief systems as you. Treat “no” to a prenup like you’d treat a “no” to having children (if that’s what you want).
I think the main mistake with F&F’s argument is that they are taking gender-neutral negative human behavior and putting it exclusively on women. Yes women can leave but men also leave marriages at a high level. Yes women love conditionally but so do men. I say all this not to excuse the behavior but to point out that it takes two people who have full trust and admiration for each other, as well as the will to put in the work, to have a successful marriage. We are clearly suffering a culture problem, not a “woman bad man good” problem.
Payton, Men and Women are very different and the consequences for men doing something vs women is VERY different. That is the key to your misunderstanding. Once the unaware/blue pill can grasp that simple concept of men and women being very different and the same actions they do have different consequences they will finally see clearly.
The Roommates will never understand the realities of today until they're divorced raped once or twice. I married twice and lost twice, I now know marriage is the myth and unfortunately my children will pay a heavy price.
As a man if you choose to have kids make her your wife first, if you are who you are supposed to be no need for living in fear worrying about things that didn't happen yet.
This is just a small segment of the full length discussion. Watch the full discussion on Patreon here: www.patreon.com/theroommates
Woman initiate 75% of divorces and 50% of marriages end in divorce. I work in an industry that most blue collar men make over 100K a year and their wives divorce them all the time.
I applaud your discernment.
The opposite of crazy is still crazy. The problem I see with the dominant theme with the red pill community is that it proposes that the solution is to become a low standard, materialistic and amoral male.
As a man I do jot intend to sleep with any woman who I am not to consider a high level partner in helping me raise my lineage.
One night stands and just sleeping around is for low low value people male of female.
Also I am a well to do man in the upper 5 to 10 % but to value myself and/or allow myself to be valued solely based on this is just plain old materialistic and shallow.
Treat women like you would like your mother, sister and daughters to be treated.
Returning to morals will solve allot of this poisonous environment.
@Vick Murray I've almost been married for 20 years with three children in high school. My wife isn't from this country which helps a lot. I do worry a lot for my children. Maybe if we got rid of no fault divorce or made 50/50 custody with no child support the default position in a divorce things might turn around. If women "mostly" wouldn't get a cash out and steady income then they wouldn't want to initiate so many divorces. I don't know what the future holds but I think things will get a lot worse before they get better.
@@alexxander304 AGREEED! God did not give men the short end of the stick when he said what he said. I will say men with morals need to uphold their attraction and masculinity like the immoral men but just don’t do what they do. The same way church girls can learn to be more attractive but don’t lower to the IG thot standards.
@Vick Murray Yes the baby boomer generation didn’t have femininity channels and masculinity channels. Hopefully this generation will do a better job now that we have recourses such as The Roommates and Chloe_ that can put men and women in there place.
This was the best discussion on modern day marriage on the internet. A complete breakdown of pros and cons were discussed respectfully despite some differences in opinion.
Peace Myron and Fresh
maybe start putting women of value on your SHOW..instead of showing one side. i know that wont get views and doesnt bring in $$$$...bring some smart girls who are not onlyfans creator...
You guys got schooled a little bit. You've been in an echo chamber for far too long. Bring girls who can debate better on your show, not the regular bimbos you have on.
@@unbiasedreviews6167 I guess having on software programmers, and lawyers don’t count
@@TruckerJohn97 Do the math Johnie Bravo, tell me whether it does
“Women look at men to be a provider, protector and leader but won’t make him a sandwich” 🤣
My woman makes me a sandwich, no problem.
Honestly the thing is these days most of the time women work and do house stuff while the man only work honestly I believe marriage should be about sharing responsibility with your partner eaqualy or to a way that both are happy with
@@iamacat9400 But that's not totally correct either. Modern men share more of the household chores than they ever did in the past. It may not be equal, but is closer to equal than before.
@@iamacat9400naw, men are providers, but that means we set the infrastructure of the marriage…if you think provider only means money then you’re lost 🤷🏿
So basically the menu is:
A warm plate of optimism served with a side of realism or
A cold plate of realism served with a side of optimism.
Highly underrated comment
Two parent households are ideal! Having both my parents was essential to my development. I can’t imagine not having my father in my life. Even though he was stoic and didn’t say much until I got into my late teens, his presence gave me security and some of my fondest moments were times I spent with my father.
I remember being sad when my older sister went to her first school dance and I couldn’t go. So my dad took me to this pop up carnival and spent the evening riding rides and playing carnival games. He won me this teddy bear that I still have to this day. He usually took the stance of letting me just cry when I didn’t get what I want, but in that moment he chose to be empathetic because it’s what I needed in that moment.
Having a father is a beautiful thing and it saddens me that a lot of people don’t have that joy in their life.
having a father figure is the most important thing for a female to be grown good and healthy
💯
@Lo Livingston a female can’t control her own emotions let alone control a son and a daughter n make sure they don’t go down a bad path, which most kids with single mothers do, obviously each parent have their own role for a kids development but for a female to not turn out like how 90% of females are she gotta have a good male figure in her life
Same, can't imagine not having my father in my childhood and life. I just wrapped a Father's Day gift this morning, feeling so thankful. I can't imagine raising children without a father in the home, that wouldnt do them or the father any justice at all. Kudos to these guys for trying to help young men towards their goals of marriage/children/ wife/ protection of resources etc. Well done!
I agree. Having a father in my life has done so much for me. His care always made me feel safe while having fun. I love having those memories. My father is very stoic as well but I know that when things are difficult and even when it involves men I can talk to my father about what went wrong and my mistakes. Always happy the best advice and makes me realize a lot. My father has always given me the freedom to grow independently but has always been there to catch me if I need support. I can’t imagine not having a dad tbh. My parents have been married 33 years and I can see how much they love each other. Seeing that lets me know there is hope
The problem began when people began to view marriage as a contract under the government instead of what it was meant to be, which is a covenant made by two people to each other and to God. Marriage is not so disposable when you're breaking vows to God.
Exactly! Marriage without God at the center, is a doom marriage. Because when you are married, you are trying to please God not your spouse
Modern day marriage and biblical marriage are two different things unfortunately
I would say giving up religion in general is the root of a lot of these problems.
Tracy Curtis - incorrect. Marriage has always been a legal contract. It is fairly recent in the last couple hundred years maybe less that it became about romantic love.
💯
As a man that wants kids . I feel a two household is imperative m. I don’t want another man around my kid.
Certified Chaos- the problem is that may not be up to you. If she leaves you and you have a child chances are she will find another man who will be a part of your kids life.
@@KJ-pu8dw not necessarily most men give up if you have a son. U could definitely have a shot especially if you have the home and the means to do so
@@certifiedchaos4643 The government can legally keep you away from your child if the mother want it to happen.
You can fight it aka family court but you are going to spending a lot of 💰 on lawyer and fees.
Most men can’t afford to go through it & eventually gives up.
The government as a whole is corrupted towards kids & marriage when it come to men. That is truth
@@DreDaGodSon I get that u have some very strong points. Usually they will only keep you away from your child if they can prove that your unfit unstable or unreliable,. You might pay child support but you would have visitation and even further joint custody
@@certifiedchaos4643
That is when they hit you with. You only get see the child on the weekends on top of the fact you paying child support.
I understand what you mean but in today’s society women have a lot of control/power.
The real reason why dating an marriages are in such a bad shape is because people have strayed away from God.
Preach!! 🙌🏾
Big Facts !
You're on point bro. So true!!!
Exactly. The world has strayed away from what God intended initially with creation which shouldn’t be correlated with religion b/c religion has done its deed in twisting the spiritual essence of the union that was vividly conveyed in Genesis chapters 1-3.
Facts. You take God out of schools you take God out of homes and you get modern day society
Let me paint a picture. Husband makes 80k a year wife is a stay at home mother. 2 kids in the family. Between car payments and mortgage the family lives slightly better than paycheck to paycheck. The man works 60 hrs a week and is tired at the end of the week so he may not be as engaging as the woman wants. So she decides that she feels like she can find a better man elsewhere. Talks with a divorce lawyer and files for divorce. Judge orders man to leave the home so the mother and children have a place to live. The man is now paying all the bills as normal and has no extra money to rent another place. Just during the court proceedings this man that makes 80k a year is now homeless. Homeless because a judge orders it. This is reality people!
Let me paint a picture. You’re young and thinking about buying your first car, but you watch the news and hear about a bad car accident that killed multiple people... Do you still purchase your car or do you live in fear on what can possibly happen? You cannot live your life in fear of the worst scenario or you will never be successful at anything, including relationships.
@@TheCaptain773 Other risks can be managed through insurance and other means, that's why the phrase "calculated risk" was coined. Getting married is like shorting a stock without any stops. It's gonna hurt my guy. With a car you have considerable control; with marriage you don't. You can't direct what the other person does, especially when the law encourages it. Good luck!
@@TheCaptain773 I see the point you are trying to make. And to answer your question. If I saw a news report that a new model car, has a defect from the factory, and about 50% of all cars produced will have an acident in the first 10 years. Leading to variable degrees of damage for the driver. No I would not buy the car. You must be insane to do it. XD
That's on the man for choosing the wrong women, PERIOD! If you're really redpill this is something you should've known.
@@reebok7317 Thats true, but women can preted to be "good" very well. Sometimes they even turn efminist 5 years into the marriage. You can vet her all you want, but you can never be 100% sure of the long term outcome.
Like it or not. You can’t have marriage without a god conscious spouse. Unless they fear God and want to do the right thing. It won’t work out.
Shyt I’m in the minority lol
🎯🎯🎯
Facts! 💯 That’s really what’s missing today and why things aren’t working out. Today a lot of people don’t know God, therefore, don’t fear God and then wonder why things don’t work out. He’s like…“Hey, you left me out of your life. You know, the life I gave you? The plans I have for you, which are so much more fulfilling and better than you could ever accomplish on your own.”
But I digress. 🤷🏽♀️
The worst thing that could happen to dating was social media. It’s destroyed how we interact with one another. And the avg woman thinks she’s better than the avg man
agreed
Social media is fucked
And porn.
Avg women actually thinks she's better than an 8/10 man
I can agree with that.
I respect both arguments but yet myself I lean towards not getting married. I’m surprised Hafeez is giving women the benefit of the doubt when most of the time they leave based on current emotion and not logic. Even my brothers fiancé is leaving him and bare in mind they have 2 kids and a home together... Her reason essentially is that she’s bored. See what I mean? Personally I’m not going to just ignore the amount of evidence out there just because of fantasy Hope. This ain’t 1950 bruh, The dating landscape nowadays for finding a wife just ain’t it. Maybe in foreign countries it’s better but definitely not in the West
Thank you for sharing!
But then how do you plan on raising your next generation? Or are you content with forfeiting all of the fruits of your life’s work over to the state when you die? If your answer to the latter is yes, then by all means don’t get married.
Definitely agree with you!
@@acenine8149 as men we have the value of time, the current climate isn't ideal for bringing kids into this world imo, if I find that later in life there is a better opportunity i.e. laws change then yeah I'll bring kids into this world, if not, then thats the sacrifice that will have to be made
@@eshesimua If capable men such as yourself opt not to have kids, then you are leaving society to be governed by the products of lesser men, dooming it to mediocrity or possible collapse. I see where you’re coming from, but that is a defeatist attitude.
hafeez is thinking from a traditional standpoint, like fresh said the traditional laws hasn't caught in modern day society
Yeah I’m not getting married unless the laws for it change
Yeah, we cannot dismiss the dismal imbalance in treatment of men in marriages and the ABSOLUTE TOTAL ABSENCE of AUTHORITY bestowed upon us by the institution. 🖐🙅♂️
@@ctg5679 You don’t have to sign a government document to be married. It’s a covenant
Well get a prenup and marry a wonderful woman who will join your team or a religious marriage as they mentioned. Why push NO marriage at all on a platform? I could see if there were absolutely NO ways a man can protect himself. The truth is Fresh & Fit just want to be bachelors with no extra “burden”. Even if the laws changed over night you think these guys would change their minds??
I think Hafeez won't get it until he is looking at the divorce papers face to face to realize it isn't what he thought it is.
If a prenup was apart of being married less people would divorce each other
Thank you for sharing
But prenups are not always done right and in most cases they get tossed out.
@@badem Not in most cases actually. It's rare that prenups lawyers draft up get thrown out in court. It's literally their job to have a legally binding document, so they would be in a lot of hot water if they couldn't manage to do that. There can be one or two things the judge chooses to not enforce, usually individual things that were bought after the marriage etc, but it's rare that they are thrown out altogether.
Exactly I don’t understand why RP can’t simply push the idea of a prenup vs not getting married all together.. 🤷🏽♀️🤷🏽♀️
Pre-nups should be standard.
Anyone who believes romantic love is "unconditional" is living in a fantasy realm. The words "standards" and "vows" imply that. So does "prenup."
Good point. 💯
I agree with fresh, I was with my wife since I was 17.5 years old, for a total of 22 years and 4 months, before the day I confronted her about a text I accidentally seen while turning off her wake up alarm, sure enough in less than 1 minute, she was asking for a divorce, our son was 16.5 and daughter 9.5 I would have live to finish raising them under the same roof, I tucked them in even at that age until the day I caught her in a car with him and she kicked me out of my own house, now I'm going to court soon to lose my shirt after I did what society asked of me and was a good provider and father. now my life is ruined and I'm depressed. never again, no man in the world should ever get married is a losing game, as far as for kids being raised by both parents, it could be done I see and pick up my kids everyday, I will never stay away, it was all I ever wanted was to be a good dad, like I have. but times have changed
Sorry to hear about that! I have a question for you though, would you have stayed if she didn’t kick you out and ask for a divorce? Maybe just lived in the same house separated but for the sake of the kids, if it were up to you?
How you get kicked out of your own house?
heck yes I would have stayed, for the sake of my kids, but she asked me to leave ones I caught her in his car, and she was too embarrassed and I was being very hostile, so rather than deal with the law since I have alot to lose, plus stuff, it was not worth contesting her.
Sorry bro
@D Goings as we speak she flew 3 hours to go see him, divorce court is next month, is going to be a shitty day, lawyer told me so
I can tell this man has never been to family court.
🤣🤣🤣 it gets ridiculous in there
Which man?
@@diplomat2623 I think he means hafeez idk
I have I am a proponent of marriage.
family court is a racket, a multi billion dollar industry.
The roommate guys seem a bit clueless on the nature of today's women. I have 2 friends that was married 20 yrs & 23 yrs. Both wives left bc they felt they missed out on their youth. One was in an affair for 5 yrs & once their house was almost paid off she filed and wanted him to buy her half out & left with her bf. They are rewarded for bad behavior.
But how would you debate Hafeez, though? As much trash talking and brain washing Myron does on his show, that was his PERFECT time to go at it with Hafeez. He FAILED MISERABLY. Esp if you go on Patreon and watch the whole thing The Roommates won by far. Not once did F&F mention anything about “female nature”. They failed y’all in this debate. 🤣🤣🤣
@@diplomat2623 follow their advice and snag up a today's female. Learn the hard way.✌️
@@diplomat2623 the roommates literally denied divorces and how women suddenly leave and take half. Hafeez literally called it a myth at the end of this, then when he went on the Fresh and Fit podcast he got a dose of reality that he was too afraid to see.
I actually am pretty convinced though most of these redpill guys have lived in a fairy tale land most of their lives.
@@Sasquatchbones But if you watch the full thing on Patreon you’ll hear what he actually called a “myth”. It was a great conversation. 💯
No lie Hafeez, you’re arguement in the beginning was well said. Honestly happy I believe in you guys and the principles you stand for.
Thank you
Great discussion, I've been married 21.5 years with no intention of divorce, We've raised 2 beautiful daughters and taught them what their value is and showed them the true relationship of a man and a woman. Marriage has not been without struggle as with any relationship. But like they said marriage is the best way to raise children to give them the best outcome in life.
14:27
I've never heard anyone make the argument that alphas will steal a married mother of 4. But, I have heard stories of women leaving marriages to live like it's Hot Girl Summer.
my ex-wife did. 5 years later... shes living in a row house deep in the ghetto and having an affair with her boss. "HOT GIRL SUMMA!!!" LMAO!!!
Make your choices VERY carefully people. You can get all the information and advice from these communities but at the end of the day it's your life and your choices to make.
Nothing to see here. Just a group of 4 kings discussing a sensitive topic in a very respectful and cordial manner, zero talking over whatsoever.
Facts!!! No getting into their emotions like the women on the Afterhours show
Such great order 😊
I only see two kings. Their names are Hafeez and Chris the Star of the Show.
“Any fool can make a baby but it takes a real man to raise a child” Boyz n the Hood.
Choose your future wife or partner wisely lads 💯
Thank you!
Yeah but Furious was not what Trey's Mother. This makes no sense.
I think this was a great discussion. One thing that seems to always get left out is that most men are not HV and probably never will be high value, so the whole money thing won’t be a big deal to be honest. This group is the 80 percent. This group most likely will get married at some point and that marriage will most likely be 50/50 or close to it! With this, the worst things that’s going to happen is child support if y’all were to separate. You would have to deal with that regardless even if you never get married, but have a kid.
Actually it the opposite
Allot of these channels take in perspective that most people are HV even though they're and will more than likely live a average life.
I understand hafeez, but I can't commit to agreeing with him. Because when it's all said and done times change and so does everything in that time. We see how modern women are changing to "Protect themselves" and it is only right that men begin to actively think about actually protecting themselves from this feminist idea of women "protecting themselves". Because Let's be honest some men can handle the ruination of their lives better than others. The ones among us that handle it the worst, will inevitable find ways to inflict that harm onto themselves, others and wider society and I think THAT RISK in really one to be mitigated before anything else. Yes Red pills in moderation can be healthy, but like anything else too much of one thing is good for nothing.
Here’s the thing happiness and success in a marriage isn’t within your power. As a man you need to put your energy into your happiness through things you control. I see what haffes is saying but woman can choose and they can ruin this thing you want so bad so don’t focus on happiness from something you don’t control.
GA- a stoic perspective. And a good one.
Some laws need to be changed. It's been all to the women legally speaking for so very long that the deal is absolute s**t for men. Marriage is so disempowering to men that it is no surprise at all the red pill community is as strong as it is.
Only disempowering with the wrong type of woman in the wrong type of relationship. Marriage is the only strong basis for building good families and communities.
These red pill talking points are shallow and self-centered and dogmatic based of the negative experiences of men.
@@CeeceeH1819 it wouldn’t be so negative if the results of marriage didn’t happen so often and with woman leaving in most cases and taken half and even sometimes more if the marriage laws were not in place men would not have a problem
You're so typical of a woman@@CeeceeH1819
You still hold men 100% accountable if a marriage doesn't work out. "...the wrong type of women...." So he and he only is responsible here, never any ownership of the woman's behavior. More and more men are making rational choices in opting out of that State legal contract while women still overwhelmingly want to end up in marriage. You also need to understand something regarding men; they have a measure of "choice" as well.
Shallow and self-centered? Sounds like you're describing women.
You would do well for some serious self reflection as your comment gives away your complete unawareness of men and the world they live in, the obligations and responsibilities society and women demand of them, and just how little you and your sisters bring anymore. Strong, independent, and empowered? That's the bottom baseline for men and even at that level men are criticized for not supporting others and considered losers.
I’m a living example of being raised by both parents. You’ll see things differently.
EXACTLY
I agree with you Hafeez. Married my college best friend. Both of our biological parents have been married 30+ years, and I think that makes a huge difference. We both had exes from single parent households, & way too many problems. We got married when we were 24. I became a SAHM and my husband and I have been building since then. He started making 6 figures when we were 28 which allowed for more resources to build my business but keeping the focus on the kids & home. I also think having God at the center of your marriage is key!
I agree with Hafeez here. The fabric of a society is a strong family unit. If we have a society of broken families, single people, single mothers, our society is completely dead. What well functioning society are you aware of that doesn’t have a strong family unit?? I can’t name any...
People need to know that marriage is biblical. A lot of the issues with marriage can be solved with choosing the right woman. I am aware of the downfalls of marriage as well. I think there are things that need to be done about that as well.
I disagree with Hafeez, for the average guy marriage will cripple you in terms of advancing your life. Don't it until you are atleast 35 years, but ideally 40 years old. Most men are not emotionally ready until that time. You have to be in your career or business for atleast 5 to 10 years. Have enough asset $250k which should include real estate, your home or rental properties. Date as many women as you can and no cohabitation unless you plan on having children with a woman.
Most average guys cannot afford the pitfalls of divorce without some form of mitigation ie. Prenup.
Your expectations for men are way too high. It is simply not possible for every man to achieve these things. Someone has to be the construction worker, the plumber, the carpenter, etc., and none of these totally average and acceptable men are gonna have even half of that. Most people can barely pay off one mortgage let alone multiple. Let’s also not forget that many men just simply aren’t smart enough to achieve such things. Some people are just average and that’s okay.
Where I’m going with this is that your standard is unobtainable for most men. Additionally, waiting until you’re 40 to even begin trying to start a family is asinine. Do you want to be in a nursing home before your children give you grandchildren? Are you going to have the energy to change a diaper at 2 in the morning when you’re 50?? No, of course not. Men may have a longer time table than women to start a family, but it is not infinite.
@@acenine8149 well said
If you get married at 40 and have children after 40 those sleepless nights are going to be a lot harder than if you settle down at 27. 😂 I’m speaking from experience, I wish I had married young and had kids earlier in life. Having kids means you will not get enough sleep for at least the first year or two.
Also, becoming a father will help most men mature and grow up. I agree that men need to focus on their career for a few years before getting married. All I’m saying is don’t wait too long. Kids need a Dad who is young and energetic enough to play with them, that gets harder after 40.
@@thefuturista7836 that just means did not set up yourself up appropriately for that. At 27 way too early to be able to provide the best life for a family. At 27 you should be working, going to school and setting yourself up in the best career as possible. Hence, you should be able to take jobs in other states or overseas, difficult to do that with a family.
I had a kid young and got custody when he was 2 years old, I would not recommend that for any young man do that. I missed out on many opportunities which I can actually quantify. I should have taken my dad lesson he has me and my sibling in his 40's.
I will not be waking up at 3am for a baby. I make enough now to hire babysitter.
I believe marriage and kids will cripple you as a man it's a dead trap in both scenarios. The women usually wins both situations in the courts and it becomes a financial headache on the man when separation happens. I would suggest men who aren't in either situation yet not to get into that trap. Remain single or have a girl with no marriage attachment and kids and you will lead to a better life going forward.
Why would a woman leave an alpha male ? Because she likes other men too. We still have this idea that women are those angelic beings, so perfect and so beautiful. When in reality they're just like men with the same urges.
Because it is really dirty macking and holding women unaccountable by blaming men by telling them you're just not man enough that's why she acted out instead of holding her to the standards of a grown adult.
Bingo! Sometimes you really don’t even know a person as well as you think you do. You got to protect yourself
@@silentlamont you're not supposed to hold women to the standards of a grown adult.
Hafeez... Here's a slow clap of my hands for you brother👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾! Extreme feminism and extreme red pill content all seem to miss the mark when it comes to the necessity and advantages of a stable, two household family with a feminine wife and masculine husband. I do understand that the system we live in is very intentional in destroying the marriages, two-parent households, healthy families, healthy masculine males, healthy feminine women...
If you are 1 metre away from a barrier and you still moving at 300km/he, for you to stop in time, you need extreme brakes and to dissipate a lot of energy.. same as feminism and red pill.. red pill is the brake to feminism (feminism is the car 1metre away from a barrier still moving at 300km/HR), the mark you talk about will be attended to when the feminism gets under control
@Adam A. first off most men don’t make enough to pay alimony. Secondly, you could potentially pay child support but you should get a lawyer and try to fight for custody.
Nobody is saying that it's not beneficial to the children. We all know it is. But there is no incentive by the family court to make marriages thrive. And when the marriages do not thrive women benefits and men lose a whole LOT.
Thank you for sharing
@Adam A. I’m sorry, if you can’t pay for a lawyer I suggest you find the money. Borrow money. Go fund me because without a lawyer you will be worse off.
Until laws change you’re at the mercy of any woman u deal with good or bad
That's the main final point. These fucken laws are what make women go out and divorce a guy because "she's not happy anymore". They know they're getting a good deal if they divorce and they won't be on the street...so they do it constantly (over 75% of divorces are initiated by women). Unless y'all divorce and come up with a mutual agreement, which doesn't happen often.
exactly 💯. Indentured servant.
Myron said something that was on the bullseye. Divorce laws have not caught up with feminism. They are rooted in the 50's to punish the man for leaving. In my opinion, that is how things could be somewhat normal if men can genuinely banned together to target the changing of laws.
Also, to destroys generational wealth that will be given to a man's kids when he pass away.
As an African woman living in the US, I believe one of the solution can be removing the “no fault divorce law” and allowing a divorce only under the condition there is proof of abuse or infidelity. And if the woman still want a divorce outside of those 2 reasons, she should be the one who gets “penalized” and vice versa. Maybe this will create less incentive for people to break their marriage contract 🤷🏾♀️
Good idea Ms. Paola. I like your ideas.
👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽
@@wildprodigy thanks
i agree with you but alot of women already make false claims of physical and verbal abuse during divorce. So they will use abuse as a way to get out of a marriage contract regardless.
Paola Isimbi- in principle I agree. I think that neither the man or woman should benefit too much in a divorce. Neither party should be rewarded or financially damaged. Leave with what you brought into the relationship.
In my 39 years of life. I’ve seen far to many men get scammed by a wife that wanted to jump back on the carousel. Thank god I took all my red pills before I ever married myself.
Not the carousel 🤣🤣🤣
Bro we need to be fair, those men picked those bad girls
@@onastackg4489 💯💯💯
@D Goings I get u but so do fuccbois until they get to smash. So we must keep it even and take accountability for men choosing bad spouses and not being able to see through the facade
@D Goings true
We need to come together and get rid of “no fault” divorce. That solves the problem. Why is no one aiming for this?
No fault divorce allows attorney, judges, and states to steal from men.
@@ironwillie7666 pretty much this. I think the divorce lawyers on f&f mentioned this
Because women want it and vote for it. Simple!
The government shouldn't be involved in marriage at all.
@Vick Murray No. The government in America was not involved in marriage until 1913. The church was not involved in the basics of marriage everywhere either. People could take partners in front of their family/tribe and proclaim they were staying together. That's literally all they had to do.
Getting married and having kids is beautiful, but for God’s sakes please pick the right woman fellas. You need to check her past relationships, financial history, and get advice from an older man; bring her around your family; especially the women in your family. They will let you know if something is off with her.
Yup. Noone can see through a woman better than another woman.
I think it's good to get married but just not go thru the system and get a marriage license. Women KNOW they hold the power once you get one, even if you sign a prenup. If y'all want to go to a priest and have him bless your union then that's great. Just don't sign no damn papers. I know in some states you're automatically considered married if you've been together for a specific period of time. so just leave those states.
@@highdefinition8261. Facts, I didn’t listen to my mama about not marrying my ex and now I’m paying for it. 🤦🏾♂️
@@leebosslife Right. Stop marrying women cause y’all made a mistake and had a kid together or cause you don’t want to see her with anybody else.
Red pill NO MARRIAGE NO KIDS LIVE YOUR OWN LIFE!!!JUST DATE
Marriage isn’t the problem, picking the right partner is.
We attract what we deserve
Agreed you have to qualify your buyer.
Yeah ok... lol
I’m glad somebody said it. Everyone wants to marry the wrong person for them. It’s a mess.
@@ZOI123-w4o That’s all it is. Most people aren’t taught how to date, let alone marrying someone.
They’re not wrong. I know 1st hand, if the payday is there, she’ll be likely to choose it over you when times aren’t great.
When I first learned what a prenuptial agreement was, I questioned why marriage even exists if people are going to break up eventually. I still do to this day. Marriage is supposed to be "till death do us part." Divorce is too common nowadays and women will file for it 80 percent of the time. Marriage, in today's society, isn't a risk worth taking if you're a man.
Thank you I never understood and woman always say they want marriage because it shows commitment but aren’t you suppose to be committed as you in a relationship and plus you can still not be committed on marriage and also people love to throw god as a reason but they don’t know that getting divorce is a sin
The argument that “no other alpha will take your girl” is a specious one. The term “take your girl” does not have to mean that he made her this new alpha’s wife. He could just have sex w/ her a couple of times and now your relationship is ruined. He took her from you in the sense that had sex w/ her. Women who are married to powerful, wealthy, alpha men will still have sex w/ other men under the right circumstances.
@@highdefinition8261 if she is good looking then the game is the game.
Like as if powerful, high value, wealthy men don’t have the same options as their wives! Notice all these male rappers and sports starts sleeping around on their wives lol Stop kidding yourselves 🤦🏽♀️🤣
Plenty of conversations on men and their sons, etc and not wanting "damaged " women but nooooooo one talks about raising daughters on these shows.
Are you... Annoyed?
@@yve4889 are you?
@@dlitefulone Yes actually, but only a little bit. 👌🏼
@@yve4889 so are you trying to invalidate my point? Im not understanding why you asked the question. At the end of the day as a woman I never hear emphasis on supporting young girls at women to Navigate life in patriarchy. No one ever talks about raising daughters and offering them understanding and support.
@@dlitefulone No no I completely agree with you. By "Only a little bit" I just meant that I wasn't hating or anything. Sorry if it came off the wrong way😅 I also really want to hear their take on raising daughters as well.
Please note girls - The title of 'wife' will not be worth it if you don't want to submit to a man. You will grow to resent him and this will end in divorce. Not everyone needs to get married and reproduce.
So yall gonna act like yall didn't see scottie pippen wife or jada pinkett Smith
Melinda Gates, MacKenzie Bezos…. 🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗 👀🍿🥤
most men are idealistic which is why ideologies like fascism and communism will never die.
Myron is more grounded in this discussion. When debating, the more emotional person loses. With that being said they’re all gems in the space and much appreciated.
Agreed. I grew up in a loving 2 parent household and it has impacted me in more ways than I can say. I grew up seeing a good marriage with mostly traditional values, and I can see the value. Also, I dont thing women would suddenly want to just up and leave the person shes built a life and family with for no reason, that wouldnt make sense. Especially if she is getting what she wants out of the marriage as far as stability, support, love, and children. Great discussion overall.
Happens all the time though. People hoping that the grass is greener 🤷♂️
It happens a lot.. many women marry men they are not actually attracted to
I agree that being in a stable 2 parent household is best for children. However, I don't believe the concept of marriage is necessarily needed. I know plenty of long-term couples with or without children that have been going strong for a long period of time.
Also, I feel it's worth point out that there are more and more men (and women) in the modern era that do not want children and/or do not want to get married (myself included). I do, however, want a long-term/lifelong relationship with the right woman. I'm not naive though, I know this reduces my pool (but the heart wants what it wants). However, I'm also prepared to be ride solo through life it comes to it.
I'm not talking about people over 40; but based on all of my family, friends, colleagues, friends of friends, and what I see on the internet... I can count the number of long-term couples of both hands that I personally know. Then if I remove the ones where I say: I don't want that... I can count them on one hand!
Of course, I know many couples still together over 40... but these people are from a different generation.
So unless you find a high-quality, like-minded woman (and be a high-quality man) and take steps to protect yourself, I feel it's very risky to get married and/or to have children. But the bigger question is... are people willing to take the risk??
That’s a marriage.. ( at least to me anyways).. Signing paperwork is having your marriage recognised by the state.. but living with someone and sharing finances is the same thing as marriage
@@NyakzOTSD Yeah I agree. Being committed to someone but not involving the government seems to be the safer course of action.
@@adamstark1850 total agree but when people say avoid marriage but still live with a women and have kids they aren’t being true! Coach Greg adams talks about a free can’t lifestyle..No marriage and No cohabitation! If you are gonna live with someone and have kids marriage makes sense.. Cheaper healthcare, cheaper insurance, Rights to your children, increased status etc!! If you wanna be free be free don’t half ass it 🤮😂
@@NyakzOTSD That makes complete sense! I feel if you're going to have a long-term partner, regarding what want you to want or don't... you both need to be on the same page, reading from the same book! I feel having some deep discussions early on can save a lot of time-wasting and pain down the road.
This was awesome!!!! Great arguments Hafeez, thank you so much for bringing them up! I have had the same questions and disagreements with fresh and fit.
I think less men will get married in the future so I don’t think it’s accurate what was said. If the 80/20 rule continues to apply and some have said it’ll go to 90/10 that’ll leave plenty of singe unmarried men. It’ll include those that don’t want to marry and also those that do but can’t because they fall in the 80-90%.
Yeah people getting married are on the decline and divorces are still rising
Always strive to be a better man, you cannot avoid heartache and experience, it will happen. If men want to get married, ok do it but understand the risks and do your best to limit the backlashes.
Fresh & Fit brought me here and introduced me to The Roommates. Great Guys, I hope you both come on the show again soon. That was a great discussion on lil loaded, deletions, men's issues etc. Keep up the good work gentlemen. 👊🏽💯🔥
Sorry, but you can be optimistic all you want. I go with logic and numbers and not my “feelings” with life commitments like that. With FreshandFit on this alllll day. Marriage with ironclad prenup is the MOST ill give a woman. Didn’t get to 33 with no kids or divorce by letting my feelings dictate my choices. Respectfully, keep up the good work tho roommates 👍
spot on. 100%, Roomates guys are blue pill idealists. 50% divorce rate. 70% initiated by women. lowest levels of marriage since 1865. THESE ARE FACTS! And the one on the right goes why would she wanna leave to get a payday - HOW NAIEVE. The multibillion dollar divorce industry is built on this! Battling for finances. Im sure on first dance on marriaeg day she wasn't plotting, but the humans change and women go off emotion and there is no fault divorce now. As though humans dont change minds or emotions. They need to watch divorcecorp documentary on netflix. they living in some 1950's dreamland
This was a great example of a mature debate with mutual respect.
She can still pull the "signed under duress" card, so even then, you can't mitigate the risk completely.
You sign it in advance, recorded w representation present. They’ll ask a few questions like are you feeling pressured and are you under the influence of any drugs. That should be agreed upon up front and if she’s shaky about it well then the medium is the message.
The only way to ‘minimize risk’ is not to enter into such a lop-sided contract. Marry religiously or spiritually. Why do you need a contract with the state? The women demand it because they know that’s power for them.
@@nylesj That sounds good but they can lie can't they? They can say they were pressured to say they didn't feel pressured lol.
There are also post-nups so you could potentially do an update. Can't keep doing the "singed under duress" everytime...
@@0doublezero0 I wonder why those are never mentioned.
Hafeez, your point would be good if women were guided by rationale, but they make decisions based on emotions. Marriage with children is exhausting and women are prone to quitting in difficult times. What happens is as a couple brings up their kids enough not to have to sit with them 24/7 and then when they have a moment to breathe, their bonds crumble under the exhaustion and women see their men as the reason why they suffer, then see the "golden parachute" ready for them to get away from what they perceive as some kind of patriarchal tyrrany and most of the time they take it, which is proven by the statistics. 50% marriages fail, 80% out of that is out of women's initiative. Society made men weak and women unfaithful, which lead to that sad status quo.
Get off the internet and go in the real world lol
Please go ask women why leave.
I move more towards Hafeez than F&F. I think the important thing is that if you are going to get married you have to do the work and vet the woman. You need to know her family, her past, her values all that. It means you also have to raise your standards when choosing a woman as well. Which means you may go without for a while in the process of looking for that woman.
Fresh talks about a woman just changing her mind. This sounds silly but don't marry a woman that will do that. I totally agree that the divorce laws haven't caught up. No doubt.
One thing is to act like your future children have a choice in who their mother is.
I like this debate, but you guys need to ask men who have actually went through the marriage cycle. These men have done their job, i.e provide, protect, etc., in the marriage but the woman leaves for the simple fact that’s she not happy. And when she’s asked why she’s not happy on several occasions, she moves the goal post every time. My point is if the man mistreats the wife to the point where she can die if she stays any longer, I can understand that she wants to leave. But if the man is good to her, does his duty but she’s still not happy because he couldn’t get a 10 bedroom mansion or because of some womanism mantra, or for being delusional, and she gets rewarded for that while breaking the family apart then that’s very wrong of her. Hence, there’s needs to be a limit to what women can use as an excuse to break up a family, especially when there are kids involved.
That would be a great experience. Talk to 10 guys who've been married and divorced and let them share their experiences. They would have to married at least 7 years or something.
Fresh has went through the marriage cycle
No, they leave cause they lose sexual attraction to you. Cause while your providing and protecting you’re forgetting to make her vagina wet through charm and being on your masculine. It’s not rocket science
point blank, a model of cooperation between man and woman is necessary. so both boys and girls grow up knowing how to treat each other, how to live with each other and how to compliment each other.
But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn,
1 Corinthians 7:9
That’s for people who cannot contain their lusts and sexual appetites
@@diegomagellan No it’s not, that scripture is for people who want to only have sex after marriage but who can’t stand abstinence with each other any longer
Hafeez Tends to use low hanging fruit for his argument. So after the rebuttal of all the risk and reward about marriage he goes into the while you can't completely 100% eliminate risk that's not what was being talked about but he asked a question in that way in order to make his point
Yeah he strawmans frequently and tries set up false dichotomies. Very disingenuous way to debate
In all fairness Myron & Fresh was WEAK in their debate. What did they really say that would get The Roommates’ minds to second guess their stand? Like really?
Its a womans job to raise children to be good human beings, its a man job to raise children to be a good man/woman in whichever society you live in. It may sound similar but its actually two different things
You discipline your children before society has too
@@saintvino1772 that's the dad's job precisly.
It’s the fathers job to teach the child principles and morals. Otherwise the child will not learn
People who have yet to invest in themselves, therapeutically, physically, emotionally and mentally shouldn't get married. Maybe, We learn what we require in a relationship, to maintain a relationship while dating and while courting. However, too many people are looking for another to complete them and when a person doesn't match up to this completely unrealistic expectation, they leave still caught in the ideology that another person outside of themselves can and will complete them. So on and on they go.. only finding the continued pattern of emptiness. I'll tell you like this, Treat yourself as if you are someone you can take care of. When this is aligned in thyself, meeting people and courting people will show you how someone moves about themselves because now you have a compass of how you move about yourself..." And theeeen".... You'll see how someone's actions and the way they move about and around you. Do they treat you like you treat yourself, or better???? The women, I think these gentlemen are talking about have been taught and drilled from small age that men come rescue them. The messaging over the decades is mixed.
@Hyun Kim heading to 80 now
@Vick Murray Question. You say that women expect men to be traditional but do they get it? Its only unfair on one party when they are actually being traditional and the other party is not.
@Hyun Kim Thank you but I watch these channels so I already know the reasons. My question though was based on the fact that a traditional household only really works when both part take. Women should not expect traditional men if they do not want to perform the role of a traditional wife if given the choice.
If a man meets a woman who is willing to fully perform that role, he does need to be able to cover the majority of expenses to free her up up to do that. Add taking care of small children it is more hours than any full-time job.
I am not from US, I live in the UK. I can't speak for everyone but most people I know work and share the expenses. In London, you mostly need two incomes to get a mortgage. I'm hearing a lot about feminism from these videos but in my life experience the main impact I see for most is that women can get jobs. It is not viable for women to depend on future partners for survival and the ability to earn an income in necessary for an adult.
The issues seem to stem from arrogance and ego of women who have a high income. There are still plenty of women working in low paid professions such a service, retail and childcare. Then you have the women who just want to get by off their looks (Insta girls/sugar babies) who in my opinion are the least likely to cook and clean. Then you have those who work in well paid careers like myself and demanding but feminine roles like nursing and midwifery. For me, things were hard growing up even with 2 working parents. I thought stay at home wives for rich people so did not expect that to be an option for me. I know only 1 person who is a housewife/stay home mother and what she does would not be possible with a FT job. I love to cook and I need to live in a clean environment so those things are a pleasure to me. I also like to look good for my man and spend time for him. What makes me nervous is still being able to do all these things and having to work while raising children, I am a woman but I am still a human being.
@Hyun Kim Fair assumption since the video is based on the US.
Even if you can find ways to get married without involving the government, there are clearly problems to resolve between men and women. I understand that men are fed up and need to vent. But when you are done the only way to get a solution is to look at both sides and find a middle ground.
@Hyun Kim If they want to be single then that would be true. But happily single men aren't going to spend hours watching videos about women. I didn't say that men need women but obviously both genders are required to reproduce men.
This was really good Hafeez made a wonderful argument 👏.
At 37...my ex girlfriend (divorced, single mom) was not interested in signing a pre-nup...she asked why I was making the idea of marriage a 'business transaction'. I broke up with her shortly thereafter. Not today satan!! 🤣
smart. you gotta play chess out here not checkers
I would tell my daughter to get married and tell my son NOT to get married. The system is broken. It isn't that women will be looking for that big pay day, it is that she now holds the leverage over you, because at any moment if she is unhappy with you she can get rewarded for leaving. And women will act on this with emotional before logical.
And when it comes to hypergamy, women want better. This doesn't only mean they will leave you for something better, this also means that they will leave you if you don't become better. Every time a women says she wants a man who is ambitious, all that means is that she wants a man who will be better than the man he is today. If she wants to constantly keep improving in lifestyle this is possible, but unlikely for most people. Most women leave men, not because of infidelity, but because of money. Money=expectations. She isn't getting what she expected, Therefore she leaves.
Are there women out there who are marriage material. Absolutely. But every day there is less of them, that is why the marriage rate is at the lowest in recorded history. Most men will Not be married we we get into our later years. The trend is going the other way.
You're a hypocrite
Lol way to promote the Patreon I was really getting into this discussion!
I wanted Hafeez to be right but he nulled his own argument as soon as he said 5-10%. That immediately made it clear that it's less likely these guys are going to even meet women who are suitable to marry. So from the jump, you're talking to a minority of men whereas the opposing p.o.v. addresses the majority.
That’s a good point! Wow! Didn’t catch that. GREAT catch!
Damn, these are Men right here, being able to exchance ideas and point of views even when they are not going in the way of each other, without getting mad, listening and acknowledging each others point, I luv to see that !
I understand fresh and fit point of view. As a woman I can confidently say that most women these day are not wife material. Hell I wasn’t wife material until I met my husband. He trained me to become the woman I am to day. I would advise men to look for a woman who is coachable and will listen to what you say. Also vet her well, ask her critical questions during the relationship phase. Repeat those questions over the time to make sure she is not lying. Observe her actions. And last but not least, don’t marry a needy or rebellious woman.
That's too much work.
For a man there's also a downside to that. In that "training" she will be docile and accept his boundaries because she "loves" him but one must also consider what is her true nature. If she's doing all that just because of "love", it will eventually fail over time. As time goes by she will feel those compromises as toxic restrictions. That's why many comments here say: "she changed after X years, after kids etc. It's because she never really wanted that life, she was in a "phase" for it and wanted to "try" it. In conclusion if a woman in her 20's doesn't have as her life goal to be a wife/mother, it's simply not her thing.
@@qmulus1 nothing comes easy. This is just and advise for men who want to get married.
@@qmulus1 we're men
I agree 💯 👍
No marriage for me... ridiculous trying to ignore all the dangers. 43, happy doing my thing.
Hafeez: I believe in marriage (in modern day America)
Family Court: "Yesssss!!! welcome Hafeeeeez 🥰🥰🥰🥰"
I love this podcast everytime I need to understand something valuable in life hafis specifically can explain it in a way that makes sense. And it’s really important things
While what those two men say is true, it has very little utility in life. We know the modern generation of women have lost their femininity, so what? I’ll find a women who is feminine, I’ll find a women who wants to be my complement. It’s more productive to just avoid the modern woman than to complain about her all the time.
I mean you have the whole world to look at, so why are you just stuck in the US. If you are bothered by the women there, just go to the other continents and find you a decent feminine woman to start a family with.
Exactly. It’s sad too many men constantly complain and complain without realising that they are men, make your own path. If the women around u are ass, go somewhere where they’re not
@@onastackg4489 yup.
The thing the roommates guy on the left doesn't seem to understand is that women are incentivised to leave, ESPECIALLY with alpha males because they have the most money. So, prenuptial agreements are very important.
Loved the discussion. I will say this though: part of the problem with the red pill community and the women they pursue is that even when they did find the one to marry, they didn't realize that growing in your marriage is the hardest part. Yes, you could divorce, yes it won't always be good, but theres a reason we have counseling for engaged AND married couples. For anyone having these issues, I'd encourage you to go. And for my Christians, PLEASE find a pastor (doesnt even have to be yours) who can sit and hear your issues or a licensed counsellor who can put you on a biblical path. I personally believe that is the way marriages stay together (doesnt mean the rest doesnt apply to non-christians though)
Thank you Elijah
Great suggestion, only problem will the women listen and put in the work to fix the issues?
No men should get married facts as ams would say l would be a fool to get married!!!
I'm so glad that they uploaded this segment to RUclips. I don't have the ability to view on Patreon.
Modern Women: Making thousands of sandwiches a day for $7.25 an hour at Subway is EMPOWERING.
Also Modern Women: Making a sandwich for your spouse is DEMEANING.
What Hafeez said about not wanting to deal with a 25 year old at 50, and also not wanting to deal with these 40-something year old single mothers is spot on.
That’s probably the clearest reasoning here.
Both are terrible ways to live life as a man and quick way to die or deal with a lot of fuckery.
The trouble with feelings is that the they do not last. Marrying for love is great story making. But if feelings don’t last then why will the marriage.
And woman feelings are generally more flippant than mens. Hence most divorces made by women.
This was a dope ass healthy conversation!! Brothers feeding off each other’s mind Simply beautiful
Is this even a debate? Men in us should never ever get married. Period
So men shouldn't have kids?
Then you don’t have a society. I don’t think you guys understand what the nuclear family has done to build the country you live in. That’s the reason why it’s so important. In order for you to even say that you would have to have a better system in place to keep the society and its core stable. Stop conflating monogamy and the institution of marriage and civil unions, if you are.
The number qualified women, are just as rare as the number of HVM men and it should be that way.
Great video. Bright, realistic, young men having a healthy and constructive conversation
Nobody knows why women do what they do. All we know is that when a relationship crumbles, they are the ones who choose to leave almost 80% of the time. In terms of another alpha stealing your woman, it’s not that. The incoming alpha isn’t here to take her as his. He’s simply here to smash and women are often oblivious to the underlying intent of his whispers of sweet nothings. That’s why a lot try to return to past relationships after reality hits.
The fear is that as she gets older the alpha will F her, dump her, and she'll come running back to you. You see this in hospitals all the time with married nurses and some of the doctors.
Good conversation guys. Even if you disagreed with each other, you done it in such a classy way. Keep up the good work fellas.
"Make sure she's from a good family."
I had a 20 year career in the military, visited 22 countries and did it solo. Women are ALWAYS a risk.
I appreciate you Roommates for supporting strong men that want good marriages and families for themselves.
Exactly i prefer the roommates than fresh and fit opinions on the subject you can feel that The roomates are high value men...Myron said i would have a muslim wedding but women look for security first and personnally i will never live with a man who can ditch me with a simple sentence ( in a muslim wedding a simple" i repudiate you" from a man end the marriage) and risking raising a child on my own...so where is the security that they will provide ? On the other sides i can understand why men don't want to get married anymore especially high value men, the risk is very high you need to protect your assets and still you take women can challenge a prenup especially if like Myron and fresh you want to cheat openly... Fresh and fit podcast is really trashy and show everything that is wrong with society 19 yo drunk women advertising their onlyfans...If you want good advice from a male perspective ask a pastor a Imam or someone with a good autority and morals and value who have a successfull wedding...
As a 27-year-old practicing Catholic woman I love that this conversation is being had on a secular platform.
There is a good amount of research done about the benefits of marriage for wellbeing of individuals (physical and mental) as well as the wellbeing of a society. If we all have this perspective that marriage is not worth the risk and that it will be better to just sleep around with multiple partners, what kind of world are we creating? One of selfishness, lack of morals, lack of commitment and constant restlessness. “The family is the basic cell of society” and guess what? Children we be born without marriage or not, and if most people are not willing to make marriage work than unfortunately many children will continue growing up in homes without stable parental figures as Hafeez was stating.
Thank you for having these important conversations!! Keep having them!
I’ve never understood men that condemned marriage on one hand and then on the other, condemned women for having children out of wedlock.
Marriage is ideal. Healthy two parents households are ideal.
Put together a prenup whilst you are your partner are still in love and on good terms. Review the prenup yearly and If your marriage fails, there will be less room for vindictive behaviour.
Ive seen women have tantrums over prenups lmao also women control access to sex "no means no" anything else is literally illegal its really on her for not sleeping with a marriage minded man.
@@constant1991 well if they’re not in favour, then you’ll have to reconsider marrying them.
@@constant1991 boy…. I dunno then. Sounds straightforward to me. Deal with women who hold the same belief systems as you. Treat “no” to a prenup like you’d treat a “no” to having children (if that’s what you want).
@@constant1991 you’re in your feminine bro, relax it’s just a comment
You're living in a dream world
Risk = Probability of failure x degree of consequences (from OHS - Occupation of health & safety) For marriage I invite you to plug in the numbers!
I think the main mistake with F&F’s argument is that they are taking gender-neutral negative human behavior and putting it exclusively on women. Yes women can leave but men also leave marriages at a high level. Yes women love conditionally but so do men.
I say all this not to excuse the behavior but to point out that it takes two people who have full trust and admiration for each other, as well as the will to put in the work, to have a successful marriage. We are clearly suffering a culture problem, not a “woman bad man good” problem.
Exactly.
70 percent of divorces are initiated by women.
@@qmulus1 why?
This
Payton, Men and Women are very different and the consequences for men doing something vs women is VERY different. That is the key to your misunderstanding.
Once the unaware/blue pill can grasp that simple concept of men and women being very different and the same actions they do have different consequences they will finally see clearly.
Great points Hafeez
The Roommates will never understand the realities of today until they're divorced raped once or twice. I married twice and lost twice, I now know marriage is the myth and unfortunately my children will pay a heavy price.
As a man if you choose to have kids make her your wife first, if you are who you are supposed to be no need for living in fear worrying about things that didn't happen yet.
Not marrying with these laws. Forget it.
Thank you, same here.
It doesn’t really sound like they’re disagreeing at all. Get married but minimize the risk. Prenup