I think for academia prestige matters. For the more competitive specialties, it won't hurt either. That said, where you go doesn't determine if you'll be a good doctor or not. I've had professors who came from Ivy League programs who are terrible teachers and are honestly god awful when it comes to patient interactions
Please don’t call IM or FM “lower tier”. They are “less competitive “ but one major reason for that is because of the sheer number of residency positions compared to other specialties, especially the surgical ones you mention. It is this type of rhetoric (conscience or unconscious) that prevents more top students from choosing primary care specialties - what communities all over this country need more of to provide healthcare to Americans. Thank you
Honestly, I think the biggest factor preventing people from going into primary care is the salary. The amount of money you borrow (and with interest) to pursue a medical degree isn't exactly made up when pursuing a career in family medicine. Specialties or anything procedural based is simply better in terms of financial return on investment. Plus, if you're starting a family and need to pay off loans, I feel like you can live comfortably off a FM salary but it's still not as financially sound. I'm biased though as someone going into a "competitive" specialty for residency soon.
@@skirmisher10 I guess the bigger question is whether or not medical education needs to be as costly as it is especially if we want to attract underrepresented minorities or candidates who are seeking the lower salaries specialities you mention
What's the wisdom on schools that refuse to rank? e.g. Tulane, Loyola-Stritch, Penn State, MUSC, MCW, Creighton? All these schools consistently match students super well - Mayo, Cleveland, etc - but all refuse to submit rankings, and the general consensus is that if they did rank they would be roughly low-mid. Where do these schools sit?
Should have at least mentioned DO schools, and how all of them dont have much of a prestige factor, and can be considered worse than even a carib MD to some PDs like harvard
The more I watch this channel, the more I notice how elitist the narrator is. (Ex: consistently talking about lower and upper tier specialty just bc they are more or less competitive)
As an M4 from a mid-tier school in the middle of residency apps, if you can go to an MD school that is top 50 or even top 25, HUGE leg up. Especially with pass fail step 1.
Is it just me or having 30-50% of program directors considering the title of the University actually sounds huge? The video made it sound like 50-70% of directors don’t care, but that’s like saying most car accidents happen when the passengers have their seatbelts on
Idk if you’ve done this, but you ought to do a video on the variables that go into how med schools are ranked. Some of it makes sense, like average test scores of matriculants, but some of it is a little dissociated from what most people consider to be core to becoming a great doctor, like NIH research funding. Great video, as always, Dr. Jubbal!
In short. Top tiers may give you an edge but your metrics also matter. Yet the the real ones who suffer are premed students who get weeded out due to the AMA which lobbied for less med school enrollment so we'd have less docs nationally and keep income high. So no it doesnt matter which med school you go to but whether you're willing to engage in years of useless coursework just to get into med school.
Doesn’t matter. Whatever you do the most recently matters most. If your post-doc fellowship is at a top program mass gen, Cleveland or Johns Hopkins, it matters far more as that’s where your job will come from and as such, it has the most weight imo.
Where you want to practice is of high importance. If you want to practice in TN, go to school in TN. If you want to practice in PA, go to school in PA.
Why in our modern age, with multiple ways to measure candidates (GPA, MCAT, STEP, personal experience, etc) are we still using “recommendation letters” for medical school admission or residency selection? Who you know and who you can get to write letters for you has zero bearing on your ability to be a good doctor. It’s an archaic practice that should be dropped. We have data to measure candidates. We don’t need a creative writing contest.
@@mustang8206 I don’t think letters of rec are an effective measure of who can be a good doctor. Way too much subjectivity and luck is involved in finding good writers. The multitude of essays and the interview should be sufficient to show someone is a decent, empathetic human capable of being an effective doctor.
I think letter of recommendations provide additional insight and context about a prospective candidate, especially if the writer is presumably someone who knows the candidate well. That’s where some falter; getting someone they hardly know to write the letter. That said, those Likert scale type check box recommendation forms I do think are meaningless. Checking only “Excellent” lends nothing to the conversation; checking anything lower than excellent May hinder the candidate.
The answer is that yes it does matter but not all the time. And even then it still isn’t the most important factor. This isn’t like Law school where it’s “Top 14 or bust” type of situation.
I’d say med school ranking does matter for competitive residencies, but overall, grades, research, LORs, etc. are more important. A top student from a mid-tier MD with an excellent app is more competitive than a Harvard MD with a mediocre application. Of course, if everything else is equal, then the Harvard name will matter more.
A bs/md program is invaluable for preserving character, mental health, social relationships. Especially important for women who need to preserve fertility and become good mothers. The overly competitive nature of top institutions are a long climb for a short slide. Daughter 520 mcat, 3.9 undergrad gpa happy and healthy at a mid range school where she can relax and enjoy medicine without turning it into a boot camp.
The majority of bs/md programs are at lower tier schools(I’m sure students can convince themselves they are mid) and still require you to keep the types of scores/grades that would enable you to get into a better md program. Really it’s a lot better deal for the school than it is for the student for them to lock up top students into less competitive programs.
@@edhcb9359 Right- that is what it is for. It is a way for lower/ middle tier schools to up their game. But unless u want a competitive specialty, what difference? Good to be big fish small pond as well. You will shine there with mich less effort and better peace of mind. I taught at middle rank and hi rank med schools. Training was much better at middle rank in this case tho students were much better at hi rank, and very cut-throat.
@@Dblue-rhino We did the big fish in the small pond thing for undergrad and our son(similar stats to your daughter) had 10 acceptances(ORM). We ended up going with one of the top tiers mostly because the scholarships in the top tiers were phenomenal. We are paying very little to graduate him debt free.
I think for academia prestige matters. For the more competitive specialties, it won't hurt either. That said, where you go doesn't determine if you'll be a good doctor or not. I've had professors who came from Ivy League programs who are terrible teachers and are honestly god awful when it comes to patient interactions
Please don’t call IM or FM “lower tier”. They are “less competitive “ but one major reason for that is because of the sheer number of residency positions compared to other specialties, especially the surgical ones you mention. It is this type of rhetoric (conscience or unconscious) that prevents more top students from choosing primary care specialties - what communities all over this country need more of to provide healthcare to Americans. Thank you
👏
Honestly, I think the biggest factor preventing people from going into primary care is the salary. The amount of money you borrow (and with interest) to pursue a medical degree isn't exactly made up when pursuing a career in family medicine. Specialties or anything procedural based is simply better in terms of financial return on investment. Plus, if you're starting a family and need to pay off loans, I feel like you can live comfortably off a FM salary but it's still not as financially sound. I'm biased though as someone going into a "competitive" specialty for residency soon.
@@skirmisher10 I guess the bigger question is whether or not medical education needs to be as costly as it is especially if we want to attract underrepresented minorities or candidates who are seeking the lower salaries specialities you mention
You haven't seen any of his other videos, have you?
@@tobiajibola3877 Watch his video on why medical school is so expensive
What's the wisdom on schools that refuse to rank? e.g. Tulane, Loyola-Stritch, Penn State, MUSC, MCW, Creighton? All these schools consistently match students super well - Mayo, Cleveland, etc - but all refuse to submit rankings, and the general consensus is that if they did rank they would be roughly low-mid. Where do these schools sit?
Thats not true what matters is the Step Scores and Connections
*Had wondered about this.*
I don't think so.
But let's see. Let me skip to the end, avoid all the bs and get the answer.
6:50
How good and prestigious is george washington university in dc???
Is georgetown better???
Hiii
Should have at least mentioned DO schools, and how all of them dont have much of a prestige factor, and can be considered worse than even a carib MD to some PDs like harvard
The more I watch this channel, the more I notice how elitist the narrator is. (Ex: consistently talking about lower and upper tier specialty just bc they are more or less competitive)
As an M4 from a mid-tier school in the middle of residency apps, if you can go to an MD school that is top 50 or even top 25, HUGE leg up. Especially with pass fail step 1.
Really? Why do you say that?
@@acd1168 bc it’s the truth 😂
Is it just me or having 30-50% of program directors considering the title of the University actually sounds huge? The video made it sound like 50-70% of directors don’t care, but that’s like saying most car accidents happen when the passengers have their seatbelts on
Idk if you’ve done this, but you ought to do a video on the variables that go into how med schools are ranked. Some of it makes sense, like average test scores of matriculants, but some of it is a little dissociated from what most people consider to be core to becoming a great doctor, like NIH research funding. Great video, as always, Dr. Jubbal!
In short. Top tiers may give you an edge but your metrics also matter.
Yet the the real ones who suffer are premed students who get weeded out due to the AMA which lobbied for less med school enrollment so we'd have less docs nationally and keep income high. So no it doesnt matter which med school you go to but whether you're willing to engage in years of useless coursework just to get into med school.
No. I went to Medical College of Georgia and am doing just fine as an oral Maxillofacial surgeon. 😊
Congrats! I know someone who went there. She is a pediatric nephrologist.
Medical College of Georgia is a fairly prestigious school
I like the content
But the “ad” for your program just shows one of many problems in the USA med school (or entire college) system….
Doesn’t matter. Whatever you do the most recently matters most. If your post-doc fellowship is at a top program mass gen, Cleveland or Johns Hopkins, it matters far more as that’s where your job will come from and as such, it has the most weight imo.
Where you want to practice is of high importance. If you want to practice in TN, go to school in TN. If you want to practice in PA, go to school in PA.
Why in our modern age, with multiple ways to measure candidates (GPA, MCAT, STEP, personal experience, etc) are we still using “recommendation letters” for medical school admission or residency selection? Who you know and who you can get to write letters for you has zero bearing on your ability to be a good doctor. It’s an archaic practice that should be dropped. We have data to measure candidates. We don’t need a creative writing contest.
Because they want someone who can be a good doctor not just someone who can take a test
@@mustang8206 I don’t think letters of rec are an effective measure of who can be a good doctor. Way too much subjectivity and luck is involved in finding good writers. The multitude of essays and the interview should be sufficient to show someone is a decent, empathetic human capable of being an effective doctor.
I’m not sure about how they’re used in the US. But in Canada, the reference letter is typically to identify any area of concerns of the applicant
I think letter of recommendations provide additional insight and context about a prospective candidate, especially if the writer is presumably someone who knows the candidate well. That’s where some falter; getting someone they hardly know to write the letter. That said, those Likert scale type check box recommendation forms I do think are meaningless. Checking only “Excellent” lends nothing to the conversation; checking anything lower than excellent May hinder the candidate.
Verbal and networking skills are worth assessing. Computers cant be doctors.
Moore Timothy Wilson Brenda Martin Shirley
You put every other Ivy expect for Dartmouth :(
The answer is that yes it does matter but not all the time. And even then it still isn’t the most important factor. This isn’t like Law school where it’s “Top 14 or bust” type of situation.
I’d say med school ranking does matter for competitive residencies, but overall, grades, research, LORs, etc. are more important. A top student from a mid-tier MD with an excellent app is more competitive than a Harvard MD with a mediocre application. Of course, if everything else is equal, then the Harvard name will matter more.
You videos are very helpfull and they are GREAT!!!
Ivy League is better
Hi
ABSOLUTELY EFFFING NOT
Solid video, but Orthopaedic Surgery is by far the most competitive specialty with less than a 50% match rate last year. That is wild
A bs/md program is invaluable for preserving character, mental health, social relationships. Especially important for women who need to preserve fertility and become good mothers. The overly competitive nature of top institutions are a long climb for a short slide. Daughter 520 mcat, 3.9 undergrad gpa happy and healthy at a mid range school where she can relax and enjoy medicine without turning it into a boot camp.
The majority of bs/md programs are at lower tier schools(I’m sure students can convince themselves they are mid) and still require you to keep the types of scores/grades that would enable you to get into a better md program. Really it’s a lot better deal for the school than it is for the student for them to lock up top students into less competitive programs.
@@edhcb9359 Right- that is what it is for. It is a way for lower/ middle tier schools to up their game. But unless u want a competitive specialty, what difference? Good to be big fish small pond as well. You will shine there with mich less effort and better peace of mind. I taught at middle rank and hi rank med schools. Training was much better at middle rank in this case tho students were much better at hi rank, and very cut-throat.
@@Dblue-rhino We did the big fish in the small pond thing for undergrad and our son(similar stats to your daughter) had 10 acceptances(ORM). We ended up going with one of the top tiers mostly because the scholarships in the top tiers were phenomenal. We are paying very little to graduate him debt free.
Can you do more videos on pharmacy school?