Power Attack Guide for Sharpshooter and Great Weapon Master in Dnd 5e! - Advanced guide
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- Опубликовано: 10 окт 2024
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Like a kobold, this quest is short.
But Kobold. You're... a kobold. Isn't Great Weapon Master practically forbidden to you, due to lack of practicality?
@@LucanVaris Pack Tactics :3
@@robinthrush9672 Is the entire pack holding up the sword, in an attempt to negate the Heavy feature? XD
@@LucanVaris Poke in the butt so the massive, slow Dark Souls swing lands
Tipp from a math teacher: Colour-code the formulas. It makes it easier to see where each part comes from for someone who might be a bit overwhelmed by the formula.
This is a great tip. Another is to highlight each term as you talk about what it means.
Even just color coding certain variables so I can better see where each thing fits and reuse in my own scenarios. Dnd math is game theory math and that’s hard
That's a good idea! I'll try to keep that in mind next time!
as an student, i can confirm
@@PackTactics I'm told colorblind coloring is a thing, so if you're doing accessibility you should look into it.
One thing I feel is worth mentioning is that due to fighting styles, ranged power attacks, with rare exceptions, deal more damage per individual attack than melee attacks (assuming the same number of feats, attack mods, magic weapon mods, etc.) Power Attacks make the weapon’s damage die much less impactful than your accuracy, which synergizes incredibly well with Archery fighting style.
Melee usually needs advantage to keep up, but it's easier for them to get it than ranged attackers (reckless attack, attacking prone enemies, etc.)
Except melees have other adv such as way easier way to generate advantage for the attacks
@@Shnauften Very DM dependent. Not my experience. Reckless attacks are only for Barbarians (and usually not worth it), and enemies very rarely get proned unless that same melee martial is using that shield bash feat or Battlemaster Fighter. Otherwise, it's not that much more likely that melee users get advantage.
Most games I've been in where these feats aren't banned, the archer just dominates combat because it's 10 free damage on every hit, since you were gonna hit them anyway (doubly so now that cover doesn't matter). Only way this will ever be countered is if the DM literally spawns monsters in the player's face - which still isn't a problem because then they can still just deal normal ass damage with their already solid finesse weapon options.
WotC just hates melee. Spellcasters and archers just make this game a shooting gallery.
@@monsieurdorgat6864 If you as a player can't get advantage easy as a melee character, that's not up to your DM, and reckless is 100% worth it almost every time.
@@Shnauften Reckless is only really worth it against bosses, who were going to hit you anyway with their +8 or more to hit and you're just DPS racing at that point. Not worth it to get chipped by small enemies, or if you're in a crowd of enemies who ALL get advantage against you just so you could hit ONE mook you were going to hit anyway.
Besides Reckless Attack and Prone, what are the other guaranteed options available to your martial character that don't waste your turn? Kind of curious, because you seem to have purely emotional opinions about a lot of this stuff.
To note: things like Bless and most Magical Weapons give you more to hit, which will put you in a much better space to power attack to your heart's content.
The bar for spamming power attacks was already pretty low... Especially with Sharpshooter, which literally lets you avoid the only potential counter (bonus AC from cover) and almost always synergizes with martial classes that get bonus to hit anyway (rogues get hiding advantage, rangers and fighters get +2 from Fighting Style)
Sharpshooter is one of the best stealth feats in the game, because only full cover counts against you, and when the enemy takes full cover you can always hide from them.
Honestly, if you take sharpshooter stealth and tactics don't need to enter the equation anymore.
Just spam the power attack, know you'll hit every time, deal much higher bonus damage for free, from range, no cover tactics to complicate anything. If your party stood a chance against that monster at all, they'll melt pretty quick to your DPS and you never even needed to waste an action to hide.
Because you know what's way better than 10 more guaranteed damage on a rogue attack? 20 or 30 guaranteed bonus damage on ranged fighter attacks.
@@monsieurdorgat6864 Yes, that's common knowledge.
I was talking about comparing sharpshooter to eg skulker on a stealth character, not comparing stealth to eg fighter on a character with sharpshooter.
@@saltypork101 I think we're making the same point - sharpshooter is a feat ubiquitously useful to any character who uses ranged weapons. It's better than just about any other feat for those characters.
As you can tell, I really don't like overly-centralized feats lol
@@monsieurdorgat6864 It's a problem, but there's lots of lovely homebrew that directly addresses that.
@@saltypork101 Yeah, my typical homebrew is either to just ban sharpshooter or nerf it. The worst offending part of it, for me, is the anti-cover ability. At least if the game is shaped around cover, there's SOME kind of strategy to things.
We NEED guides like these! You're doing good work, Pack Tactics.
@@Mr1991bbk proficiency
@@Mr1991bbk proficiency bonus is always the same at level 5 lol, stop hating
Thank you for reminding me that Sharpshooter has two other amazing features besides its power attack feature.
Sharpshooter is insane
Especially if you're a Samurai
-5 to hit?
Who cares when you have on demand advantage!
I suppose you could also tack on Elven Accuracy for true absolute overkill
Sharpshooter is the most brainless feat in the game. No real choices need to be made - you always do the power attack, never have to consider cover. It's the ultimate feat for "brain off, roll dice, win game".
The breaking point for ac on power attacks is something I've run into on my current sharpshooter character The theoretical damage output is close to 500 or so at level 20, the only problem is that every monster in the game with enough HP for that to matter also has too high of an AC for power attacking to be worth it, thus about 80-100 damage is lost. This results in a situation where I can't kill the really big things this damage was meant for, and also all my damage features are just overkill for anything they would actually work on. This is the issue of just crunching the numbers in a vacuum. I could deal 500 damage, but everything that I could deal 500 damage to dies before that 500 damage is dealt.
I love your videos, one thing I find really helpful and visual is to graph both power attack and normal attack where one axis is ac and the other axis is average damage. It was very helpful to me at least.
I've got a geogebra(free math software) sheet doing exactly that if you want it
I just recently discovered the very good combination of great weapon master and Samurai Fighter's Fighting Spirit: at level 5, that's potentially 4 power attacks at advantage! throw in the Great Weapon Fighting fighting style, and you're looking at a character that can nuke even medium-AC targets.
Funny thing: Fighting Spirit gives advantage on all weapon attacks made until the end of the turn. It doesn't make a distinction between melee and ranged...meaning with Sharpshooter (and Archery fighting style), you can attack with advantage multiple times from up to 600 ft away, ignoring all but full cover, hit with much greater frequency, have a higher initiative average due to Dex focus, and deal +10 damage on every attack *and* have access to certain Dex/ranged only perks like Bracers of Archery and Elven Accuracy.
Tbh GWM feels almost necessary just for Str/melee to keep pace with the benefits Dex/ranged have, and even then the ranged version of GWM immediately closes that gap on top of giving more benefits.
(And honestly, GWM should have had an extra line to give a benefit to non-heavy melee weapon attacks since the first line doesn't even exclude you from using a one-hander to get the bonus action)
GWM has greater synergy with Reckless Attack is what I get from the guy above me
If you're playing as an Elf, your 6th level ASI could be turned into the Elven Accuracy feat for the triple advantage.
@@Battleguild the beautiful triple advantage only applies to everything that isn't strength. You have triple advantage if you have advantage on an attack roll using dexterity, intelligence, wisdom or charisma.
So, just another feat to give the range based fighter.
@@Mrryn Ah yes, Zen Archery returns I see...
I love how all this math is a roundabout way of calculating THAC0
But Kobold, why didnt you mention you can use both feats at the same time making a melee attack with a heavy crossbow, taking a -10 to hit to get +20 damage? It would probably be an improvised weapon attack at that point, but then you could take tavern brawler to have proficiency still. Probably not practical but it could be fun and thematic.
Sharpshooter no longer adds 10 damage in 5.5.
they shouldn't, and they dont@@AlohaKIG
You will have to go war cleric to make up for that penalty lmao.
Whats funny about sharp shooter is that if you're a fighter with bow specialization and a 16 dex you take a -0 on the roll instead of a minus 5, without factoring in any additional bonuses.
So just plus proficiency
@@imhulki463 Also if the weapon is a plus weapon.
@@Nyghtking damn true, ranged martial is stronk
@@imhulki463 theyre not :D
Woooo! We love Packtactics at my table! Keep up the good work Kobold King!
You should also take standard deviation into account. The standard deviation on a single d20 roll is quite high, so for short combats it's probably not worth power attacking due to the high variance inherent to a d20 roll. However the longer a combat is, the more worth it it is to power attack throughout, as the more times you roll the smaller the standard deviation is and the closer your in practice results are likely to be to the calculated avarage.
Basically, if you think combat will only last a round or two, don't bother power attacking.
That also makes sense with if it's a longer round of combat, several power attacks hitting equals doing a lot more bonus damage. Hitting 8 times with power attack vs hitting 1 time with power attack. A combat that only lasts a round or two likely has low-health enemies and it's better to focus on finishing them off rather than go for extra damage that may not even be needed.
Standard deviation doesn't really matter for rolling one d20, though, because the chance of each result is the same. If you roll multiple dice and create a nonlinear distribution of result chances, then yes a difference in standard deviation is worth considering.
Spoilers, the standard deviation of more dice becomes smaller.
But he did factor the math into the power attack's DPR - the chance to hit is properly simulated by a simple % chance, the standard deviation doesn't matter. As he showed with his math, for all but the most extreme AC's, you're best off doing the power attack because the only moderate chance to hit reduction is worth the insane damage boost. +10 damage is about equivalent to one more attack with a big weapon or two small weapons.
@@monsieurdorgat6864 The average DPR is only an expression of what it will trend towards over an infinite number of turns. For a finite number of turns, whiffing all of your attacks and doing nothing could be an expected result within the standard deviation. So even with a DPR bump, if that DPR bump isn't significant, the trade-off in consistency is likely not worth it over a small number of turns.
@@INTCUWUSIUA It doesn't have to be infinite, just a moderate number of turns. I guess you might have a point for one-shot games, which may only have one or two combat encounters with 3-6 rounds? Even so, any combat encounter that would challenge the combat capabilities of your character would make the statistical tradeoff worthwhile.
Still, that standard deviation doesn't change between rolling normally and rolling with a penalty (still 1d20), so the proportionate value of making power attacks is still linearly adjusted via the creature's AC and not disproportionately affected.
This is roughly equivalent to gambling $10 with a 75% chance to earn $50 vs. guaranteeing getting $15. Yes, you could miss out on your one chance, but the stats point to the fact probably best off just taking the gamble, even if once. The payoff is large enough to worth risking relative to its chance of success.
@@monsieurdorgat6864 I think the two of you are debating different things. One is looking at the results in any given combat, and the other is looking at expected total output over an entire campaign.
Over a campaign, yes, power attacking will give a better average result. But, on an encounter-to-encounter basis, it may not be superior. You have to read the room right after you kick down the door.
Thank you for sharing with numbers and equations. Your video is easy and fun to follow. I especially liked when Gator jumped in there to cast "shield".
Now these feats paired with samurai fighter, that's a nice combo.
Wore your "Pride is Optimal" shirt at a convention today and several people seemed to love it, and a few even mentioned how they love your channel!
What convention?
@@PackTactics Megaplex. It's a furry convention in Orlando.
@@thefrostychemist Cool!
Fantastic video! I love hearing the breakpoints of when to not use them.
Suggestion for a future video though, when to take a feat such as GWM as opposed to an ASI. At level 4, is it better to cap your DEX or take Sharpshooter?
That's going to depend on information that you as a player are unlikely to have - namely, what sort of enemies and tactical situations are you going to face until your next ASI. If you expect to face high-AC enemies with no cover and within your weapon's short range, then you're better off capping your dexterity. If you expect to face low-AC enemies who often have cover and/or are within your weapon's long range, you're better off taking Sharpshooter.
@@kclubok That's a good point. Even more reason why a look at "in general" taking a boost to your Dex vs sharpshooter or Str vs GWM would be interesting.
i can tell you right now: crossbow expert, sharpshooter, polearm master, great weapon master, and lucky are the 5 full feats that are going to be more powerful than an ASI. i don’t have the literal math available as proof with percentages and everything, but i know people have done it in the past.
i do however, understand the concept, which is this: polearm master and crossbow expert are more powerful because they let you make more attacks. this means each round, you have another chance to hit your enemy and deal more damage. an ASI would make you 5% more likely to hit for each attack, and deal 1 more damage if you do, but getting another attack essentially doubles your chance of hitting, because you get to go twice. the fact that the damage dice are slightly smaller doesn’t matter, it’s still way more damage.
by similar logic, lucky is more powerful than an ASI as well. of all the d20 rolls you make over a long rest with your best ability, only 5% of them are going to be changed from a miss to a hit or a fail to a success. you deal another point of damage on average each time, but unless you frequently do barely enough damage to kill a monster, you probably won’t notice it. lucky lets you get another chance to hit with an attack 3 times per long rest, which is probably more than 5% of your attacks, and it crucially doesn’t have to be used on attacks: if rerolling an enemy’s crit, a failed stealth check, or a con save against petrification will save your life, you are going to be dealing way more potential damage as an alive person than a dead person.
great weapon master and sharpshooter are the hardest to prove, because we (usually) have no way of predicting what the AC of the monsters are going to be. unless you’re in a setting or adventure where you know what kind of enemies you’re going to be fighting most often, and you know what their armor looks like (an enemy wearing plate mail obviously has a higher AC than a zombie or gelatinous cube), you won’t be able to know how often power attack comes in handy.
but, we can look at the expect monster AC for each CR in the DMG and do some math off of that, and we can also look at the other two features in our two feats: GWM gives us another attack on a critical hit (about 5% of our attacks!) or when we kill an enemy. sound familiar? an asi would also give us another attack’s worth of damage 5% of the time. SS lets us ignore cover and outrange our opponents, which translates to a 10-25% better chance of hitting (some of the time) and a way to force enemies have disadvantage, which is like having +4-5 AC or waste turns getting closer (some of the time). those two things are both pretty good when compared to the ASI.
if this doesn’t convince you, then i encourage you to go online and find some nerds who are good at math. find formulas, find averages, do whatever it is you need to have peace of mind. but i hope i was able to raise some interesting points, if nothing else.
@@Hazel-xl8in That was very informative! Thank you very much for you time to answer a question~
Excellent video! I use my bonus action to boost algorithm
I'm increasing that engagement score by leaving a comment and watching the video at 1/2 speed. Very optimal
I see, ty for letting me understand your math for dpr because up until now I was very confused
My own personal experience with a Hexblade with Crossbow Expert and Sharpshooter is that taking a level in Fighter and taking the Archery fighting style gave me a big boost in accuracy almost negating the penalty from Sharpshooter.
Better still with Sharpshooter, it means you can fire into melee combat without taking the cover penalties, meaning if your front-liner is engaging the enemy and/or is between you and the target, you don't have to fret about risking hitting them AND the target won't get AC bonuses from being in cover.
This is also very effective for mages with the Spell Sniper feat... which I like to take full advantage of when playing a caster ;)
I’ve been reading over these for a while to utilize with a reckless attacking dual wielding path of the beast barbarian. This video answered a BIG question. Take great weapon master and use heavy weapons when fighting larger single boss. Dual wield when fighting many smaller creatures. I still get the first bullet point bonus action attack on a crit or enemy drop. Good stuff.
No, you still want GWM for small enemies. You get to one-shot them and then make that bonus action attack.
That's the thing about both these feats - you never don't want to use them. Only GWM on high AC targets (which are rare) is the only time you'll ever have to think or change tactics while using these feats.
@@monsieurdorgat6864 The simple solution? Find a way to dual-wield heavy weapons!! I played in a 3.5 campaign where another guy who ran a dual-greatsword build. It was disgusting to watch in action. My poor Bard-adin could not keep up with everyone else optimization-wise.
@@irregularassassin6380 Never played 3.5e, but I heard it was a minmaxer's dream lol
My personal homebrew solution is actually just to let characters who want to be big stronk use bigger, stronker weapons.
In short, if you have the "Heavy Built" 5e feature that says you get to carry things like you're a size-large creature, that means you get to carry the same kinds of weapons that large-sized creatures do! That opens the door to either a) dual-wielding non-light weapons, or b) wielding ultra-greatswords.
If I'm being extra spicy, I'll even just allow GWM and not Sharpshooter. Sharpshooter is the one I actually have a grudge with.
@@monsieurdorgat6864 It was a minmaxer's dream. You can still go find the old optimization threads on GITP, there's some _wacky_ stuff out there. One guy went and actually minmaxed the best generic equipment loadout (minus weapons and class-specific things) that every adventurer should have at 5000gp, 10,000gp, and 50,000 gp iirc. It all went into a Heward's Handy Haversack, and made you the guy who had a solution for 90% of all obstacles you could face. I actually used that one, and the guy was right!
Your homebrew for larger weapons sounds pretty good, but doesn't that limit that ability to just Goliaths?
@@irregularassassin6380 Not just Goliaths, I think orcs and firbolgs have it too.
It also just works if someone casts Enlarge on you.
Currently, not an issue because I'm running a Legend of Zelda 5e campaign with homebrew races, and Goron has the option of just being a large creature that can fold up into a medium sized ball.
There really needs to be a one-handed weapon power attack feat.
And a feat to supplement it, with crossbow expert/sharp shooter and the polearm master/great weapon master, the only viable weapons are hand crossbow or halberd/glaive. Really limits your options to be honest. I think another dual wield feat, a sword and board, and a dualist (one weapon and "open" hand) would greatly fix that.
The actual greatest treasure known to kobold kind is...
THE CANDLE!
I saw the notification of the video
I click and having a good time in front and suddenly
KABOOM !!!!
an announcement for a kobold adventure kickstarter???!!!!
I turned off youtube
turn on my pc
and I threw everything I could into the campaign xD
can't wait to have it in my hands
KOBOLDS RISE!
Fun quirk of the two power attack feats: If you use a heavy crossbow as an improvised melee weapon, you can benefit from both great weapon master and sharpshooter's -5 and +10s for a sum total of -10 to hit and +20 damage
And minus proficiency bonus unless you have Tavern Brawler.
No... that's not how that works at all and any DM that lets you do that is a buffoon. If you are using a heavy crossbow as an IMW it no longer carries the ranged weapon property since it's class of weapon is now "Improvised Weapon" based on the method you wield it. That's like saying a scope on a rifle will increase my chance of hitting you with its bayonet. The two are unrelated entirely and you are making things un-fun by trying to power game incompatible rules together.
@@Dudeman9339 It's not about power, it's objectively bad to take -10 to hit regardless of the damage bonus. I just thought it was a dumb rules interaction as written, which is technically applicable, as you can in fact make a melee attack with heavy ranged weapon. I'm just trying to poke some fun is all
Improvised Weapons
Sometimes characters don’t have their weapons and have to attack with whatever is at hand. An improvised weapon includes any object you can wield in one or two hands, such as broken glass, a table leg, a frying pan, a wagon wheel, or a dead goblin.
Often, an improvised weapon is similar to an actual weapon and can be treated as such. For example, a table leg is akin to a club. At the DM’s option, a character proficient with a weapon can use a similar object as if it were that weapon and use his or her proficiency bonus.
An object that bears no resemblance to a weapon deals 1d4 damage (the DM assigns a damage type appropriate to the object). If a character uses a ranged weapon to make a melee attack, or throws a melee weapon that does not have the thrown property, it also deals 1d4 damage. An improvised thrown weapon has a normal range of 20 feet and a long range of 60 feet.
@Geoffrey Robb That's an unfortunate ruling in this context, guess it doesn't work then. It is a little strange that weapons can lose the heavy property though, using it in a way unintended shouldn't reduce the weapon's weight at all
This Kobold Kickstarter reminds me of the Goblin Campaigns that Pathfinder 1st edition made
Great guides by a Kobold and a Gator who Interupts a lot
"Zom-bees", coming to a theater near you. Movie trailer voice: "In a world where pollen baskets have become meat baskets ..."
Made a Dart Throwing Eldritch Knight Gold Dragonborne. Used Thrown Fighting style, Sharpshooter, and a 2 Level dip in rogue to great advantage against several creatures.
The only thing Id add to this video is that context matters. If I'm attacking a 7hp goblin with a greatsword and 18 STR, I kill it as long as I hit and don't roll snake eyes. In this case, youd definitely take the better hit chance.
In another perhaps more subtle situation, if you're up with GWM on a single enemy with ~12 HP left, GWM would guarantee a kill if you hit. However, if another martial is next to it who maybe doesn't have GWM, it might be better to make a normal attack.
For example, 15 AC with a +8 to hit on both martials means that for both of you to hit you'd need a 7 or better on the d20, which is basically the odds of rolling at least a 7 with disadvantage. Thats 49% on the disadvantage table shown in the video. At 12 HP left you guarantee a kill if both of you hit with greatswords since the minimum damage roll is a 6.
However, with GWM, you need to roll at least a 12 on the d20 to hit, which is 45%. If you hit, sure its guaranteed to die, but if you miss, there's no way the other martial can kill it and it will get another round of attacking you.
It seems like taking two normal attacks has an additional 4% chance of ending the encounter over a GWM attack, even though the GWM attack has better DPR.
This is all a long winded way of saying that since enemies die when their HP hits zero regardless of your overkill damage, and enemies can hurt you only when their HP is not zero, going off best DPR is not always going to result in the best outcome for a combat encounter. Things like turn order and what your allies are capable of will affect whether or not its correct to go for the all-in attack in addition to just DPR calculations
One key thing about these feats is that high variance and damage spillover means that you want to use the power attack a bit less often than the pure DPR math suggests. High variance means that missing more often but doing greater damage gives more extreme results, which is generally less optimal, since extreme results is what gets players killed when they are on the bad end. Spillover is doing excess unnecessary damage - hitting someone for 25 damage when they have 3 hp left. So to reduce variance, I tend to switch to regular attacks one AC lower than the math would suggest, and to deal with spillover I also switch off power attacks if I think a monster is almost dead.
Also would probably not do the power attack against minions if I believe we would one hit anyway, or close to it. Also sometimes you need to hit for other abilities that may be more beneficial than the extra damage, such as attacks that knock enemies prone, move then, do your arcane shots, etc. Especially if you only have 1 or 2 attacks, missing might change the battle and you are increasing the chance to miss. Not saying these are bad feats at all, just other things to consider.
@@Magnus2dead That's where the GWM first feature is really nice
One hit it anyway, and now you have an additional attack to goof off with against some other mook
For anyone who doesn't want to do the maths, the "breaking point" where power attacking is no longer worth it is when the target's AC = 15.75 + (weapon's hit-chance modifiers) - (weapon's damage modifiers)/2 - (weapon's damage)/4
For the example given in this video: 15.75 + (+9) - (+4)/2 - (1d6)/4 = 21.25 AC
Or use it when 10*(hit chance with power hit) > (expected damage without power hit)*(hit chance without - with power attack)
For given example: 10*0.5>(1d6+4)(0.75-0.5)--> 5>3.75, which is true so use sharpshooter here.
I'm looking forward to hearing about Kobold's exploits in this Kobold-themed adventure!
Kill the Gnomes!
And with that line alone I am sold.
Reject gnome. Embrace kobold!
I love the implication that just doing damage isn't good, but there is not much those characters can do excapt that
with Tavern Brawler you can use heavy ranged weapons in melee allowing you to do a double powerattack for -10 to hit +20 damage
Thanks kobold for the PF2 love. I still watch your videos because you're a great presenter that makes fun stats vids
I feel like a certain Kobald made this quest.
Yip yip yip!
Pathfinder 2e kobolds are dope btw. They gets free traps per day at higher levels, and also can cringe as a reaction which gives them reduced damage against crits. I love them so, so much.
3:16
So, if I have both feats and make a melee attack with a longbow, I can do a double power attack?
Obviously this isn't optimal, but I think it'd be hilarious to smack people with a bow and do 1d4 + 20 + strength mod damage if I ever manage to hit.
Yes. That's called Bowsmash. Its a meme build, it was originally in the video but I scrapped it.
Why should you do that? :D the power attack is not limited in its usages per turn
The RAI is that it isn't considered a ranged weapon when it is being used as an Improvised Weapon
I actually got the video topic guessing right, neat
If all you care about is finding the breakpoint for power attacking, and not your true DPR, it sees like you could just drop the crit calculation entirely, since it's identical in both formulas.
A much simpler method of determining when to power attack is 16+attack modifiers-(average dmg without power attack/2). If you suspect that the enemy ac is less than or equal to that number then you power attack. This only works if you don't have advantage or disadvantage but you'll pretty much always power attack if you have advantage and never if you have disadvantage. If the enemy ac is lower than or equal to that number then you're power attacks will deal more dmg on average accounting for misses, if it's higher then you'll do more dmg on average without power attacking.
I once had a bloodhunter in my party who had a magic weapon that dealt aditional damage so his attacks dealt like 6d6 damage or something (don't know the exact numbers, I just know he always rolled a ton of dice). In this case, taking GWM actually wasn't a great option anymore because the Power attack would've only marginally increase his dpr, if not decreasing it.
If your character has a very imbalanced damage to hitchance ratio, I'd recommend running the math first if taking the feat is worth it but that is only rarely the case.
Your lore accurate hatred for Nomes fills my heart with joy
Sharpshooter+true strike works and makes sense! Hitting a target at 590 feet with this combo is ninjitsu.
True strike is 30 ft.
Correct me if Im wrong:
Sharpshooters thirs bulletpoint reads: "Before you make an attack with a ranged weapon that you are proficient with [...]"
It doesn't actually require a ranged attack, just an attack with a ranged weapon. You could use your Longbow as an improvised weapon, because: "An Improvised Weapon includes any object you can wield in one or two hands [...]"
So as long as I'm proficient with a Longbow, I can bonk people in melee with my Longbow and acticate sharpshooters Power Attack, since I'm proficient with the Longbow an it is a ranged weapon.
It is an Improvised Weapon at that point, not a ranged weapon
Your read is spot on. A dual wielder using daggers has a ranged weapon in each hand as the dagger is listed as having the ranged property. Who needs crossbow expert for that bonus attack with sharpshooter power bonusses.
@@jeffdietz630 dagger doesnt have the ranged tag, only the thrown tag
the dart however is a 1d4 piercing weapon that has the thrown and ranged properties
funny thing about these 2 feats, they can be used in tandem with a HEAVY crossbow, you can make a MELEE attack with your RANGED weapon, using both feats at once to stack the damage. it's not optimal but damn it's funny
lol, walks in with a level 4 V human battle master (basically just for precise attack to help curve out hits) with the archery fighting style (because it also doesn't say ranged attack, only an attack). Sure before adding ability mod and proficiency I'm taking a -8 to hit, but I got a +20 to damage. Kinda sucks crits don't work like in older editions, otherwise on a critical you could get a +40 damage.
When you make a melee attack with a ranged weapon it counts as an improvised weapon for the purposes of mechanical resolution. On the upside, this does mean that you could do some funny stuff with Tavern Brawler and Great Weapon Master.
In my games I have a power attack feat for every weapon type gotta show martials love
Perhaps the wording on the new kobold [trap crafters] ability should probably be read instead as, "If you are able to gain expertise in a skill, you can choose trap crafting to gain expertise instead of the normal selection of skills."
With the current wording, rogues would be the only class able to gain expertise in trap crafting.
I will absolutely take that into consideration.
Thank you!
Sharpshooter rogue is a bit OP. Shortbow and light crossbow both cap out at a long range of 320ft, and longbow at 600ft. You can still sneak attack as long as you have advantage or they are in melee of an enemy to them. It would not be difficult to hide at those ranges with something to give a little cover. So Cunning action hide and make sneak attacks with advantage, and you can keep moving to maintain distance. There are very few spells that have such long ranges to return fire. The power attack could be handy for a flat +10 damage as advantage helps erase that attack penalty, but sometimes making sure the sneak attack lands would be the better option.
I'm lazy and use LudicSavant and AureusFulgen's DPR Calculator (v2.51) which is a spread sheet which allows you add things like modifiers and sneak attack die or extra dice of damage from other sources and elven accuracy etc and prints graphs of dpr per ac. Very very useful
My arcane trickster rogue took Fey Touched, took Bless as my 1st level spell, then took sharpshooter. So, my first round, I cast Bless on myself and two others (usually the martials) then hide. The next round I activate sharpshooter, and since I’m a hidden attacker, I get advantage, and a d4 from Bless. I do a ton of damage that way. I think my record so far is 112 points of damage at level 8.
Hint: Savage Attacker isn't a bad feat for rogues. You only get one attack, so curving it out as much as possible is a very good option, may even be better than sharp shooter's power attack (the other aspects of sharp shooter are very helpful though).
Also, I'm playing a high elf arcane trickster and its just too much fun. Probably one of the best rogue subclasses in the game, and that's even after all the new books upping the power.
Oh ... oh I want to play that so badly now!!!
I’m playing a draconic sorcerer kobold gotta love pack tactics on scorching ray.
Monks with the focused aim optional feature can reduce the penalty, or even turn into a +1, depending on how many ki points are used.
I've always just used when I have to roll a 13 on the die to hit with power attack as my "okay now I need to think about whether I actually want to power attack or not"
I say think about because if I have other ways to buff my numbers a bit (bless, bardic inspiration, battlemaster maneuvers, or even advantage) or if I think the enemy will survive a round then I'll still power attack more often than not.
This chart will definitely make me reconsider that, because it seems like 13 was too low... Of course it also depends on what we're fighting, how healthy is it feeling, how dangerous is it given the current battlefield situation, and where the monster is in initiative, and 13 is my "I should think about it" threshold not my "don't power attack" threshold
I am personally a fan of the shield master feat because if I am a front line combatant I much prefer the defensive utility to the extra damage allowing my allies to deal their damage more readily. I also love to use the fell handed feat on barbarians to knock opponents prone for other melee focused DPS to run in, and start shanking them with advantage.
This campaign kickstarter speaks to me spiritually /s
Embrace the Kobold.
GWM feels like its precision designed for Barbarian.
Beause as a Barbie, youll probably be swinging around a two handed weapon to begin with, and its your job to throw out the big damage to keep your teammates safe.
And Reckless attack helps you both mitigate the downsides of that -5 to your attack roll, while simultaneously increasing your chance to crit for that bonus attack!
Doesnt synergize quite as well with Wild Magic Barbie tho, since a lot of its effects also take a bonus action to use, sadly...
I was subscribed and youtube unsubscribed me... neverthe less from one kobold player to another, you do get my sub to the channel!
an interesting subject...and an interesting kickstarter, though i kind of doubt that they have any Goodberry ice cream...
My player once made an elf samurai fighter who could just give himself advantage whenever he wanted. He took sharpshooter and elven accuracy as his feats so he had +12 to hit with triple advantage whenever he wanted. It’s a good thing though because without him everyone would have died
I don't think advantage stacks.
@@RevolutionaryLoser elven accuracy is a feat that stacks advantage, that’s the whole point of the feat
@@rickycarrillo7821 Aha. Elves, amirite
@@RevolutionaryLoser always gotta be better than everyone
Great video!
i think my favorite meme martial build is smacking someone with a bow spear with polearm, heavy weapon master, and sharpshooter. -10 to hit, +20 damage, if the dm allows it of coruse
You can use great weapon master and elven accuracy at the same time if you are a battle smith artificer
Same with a hexblade
@@thecharmer5981 Hexblade specifies that the weapon can't be two handed
@@humungachip4710 unless you have pact of the blade
@@thecharmer5981 didn't know that, thanks
@@humungachip4710 if you grab improved pact weapon you can even use it with a bows and crossbows
Whait. If you use a Heavy crossbow as an improvise weapon to hit a melee enemy it counts as a mele attack with a heavy range weapon? So you can take a -10 to have a +20 to damage?
If you use a heavy crossbow as an improvised weapon and clobber someone with it, you're making a melee attack with a heavy weapon and you're making an attack with a ranged weapon, so you can use both power attacks, taking -10 to the attack roll and +20 to the damage on a hit, which is very funny
Unfortunately, it doesn't actually do more DPR than one power attack in most cases
It might not do more DPR, but its sure gonna deal emotional damage to the poor sucker clobbered by a crossbow
Funny, but the language isn't clear and likely any reasonable DM would only allow it out of sheer amusement.
At the very least, you'll need the Tavern Brawler feat to gain proficiency in improvised weapons because you must be proficient to power attack. 🥴
@@RisingChaos This is the only flaw I directly see. Requiring 3 feats though means if a player wants to do this I will absolutely allow it at my table.
It's no longer a ranged weapon if you use the crossbow as a club.
You had me at Kobold
Yay he acknowledged me as a pathfinder player
My first system was Pf1 like 12 years ago.
So disappointed you didn’t do ultimate power attack of heavy crossbow using both feats for a -10 to hit and +20 damage.
It’s more complicated if you have to take into account your own health etc and finite turns with game theory. I’ll give simple example if this is your last chance to survive and last attack, and you must make high amount of damage now or you dead you may want to do higher potential damage even if you miss. In general in game theory the worse your odds, better it’s to through Hail Marys. In practical term you should start off using things more likely to work and then go until riskier bets near end or if it looks like your going to win back down and play it safer with using up resources you have
I know this sounds nitpicky but that’s huge thing most strategy forget
Kobold campagin? Would be fun, would Autognomes be constructs for the monsters? Can we get an AutoKobold
It's not CURRENTLY in the plans, but y'know. Stretch goals.
You should do a video on optimizing bloodhunter it seems like they could have truly absurd damage especially at low levels
You'd be surprised! Their extra d8 only adds a few points of damage and that's really all they get. Their other damaging abilities like Blood Curse of the Marked or Blood Curse of Exposure are either extremely limited in uses, or very niche.
Paladins eventually also get a free d8 eventually, have divine smite, AND like fighters have a pool of healing rather than sacrificing dozens of HP over an adventuring day.
@@Scarygrim that is true but most campaigns don’t get that far and blood hunters have this at level 2, I did the math and a sword and board fighter at level 20 has less then a level 5 bloodhunter with great weapon master and polearm master against the same enemy. Clocking in at a total of 44.64 dpr, with that you have to hit cr 7 before a creature that you can’t kill in 3 turns or less shows up and by cr 10 there is only 1 enemy you can’t kill in 4. And if you just happen to get lucky you’ll be killing most of those enemies 1 turn faster
They definitely fall of pretty hard after that compared to other martials but I think below level 11 they really may be the optimal melee attackers in terms of dpr. But ghost slayer can offset this a lot vs the right enemies and lycan is very good in most situations even with less dpr. Mutant also allows a lot of strong options and makes you more adaptable.
It’s definitely weaker than fighter or Paladin but you can be outperforming rangers, monks, rogues, and barbarians for damage.
Plus you really don’t need to sacrifice much hp as a bloodhunter, blood cureses are niche enough that amplification should probably be rare and so really the main ability you need to spend hp on is your one time use of crimson rite per day
Blood Hunter is a pretty weak class overall tbh. I'd put it around monk's power level, below the good monk subs.
@@Scarygrim Then again, having a 22 dex as a mutant at level 4 with point buy is nothing to scoff at. If only because larger to hit bonuses disproportionately improve the DPR of power attacks
@@haenhaen4282 I agree that it’s week overall but early game below level 11 id say the damage it puts out is quite frankly absurd being able to nearly match the damage output of a 20th level sword and board fighter (though that’s not a damage optimized strat but still)
Also most of the blood hunter subclasses are actually really good, personally I’d consider them better than most monk ones. The ghost hunter jsut decemates undead and even against other enemies the single target dps they have is insane, the lycan basically makes you a pseudo barbarian with a bit more damage. The mutant finally is like insane, because while most mutagens are situational some like getting +4 to a stat are insane, and the negative on this (for the strength one it’s disadvantage on dex saves) is offset by having a pseudo aura of protection.
Plus compared to many martials the bloodhunter has additional out of combat utility when compared to most of them
I constantly forget that first part of GWM
Steady aim is really good for this
5:30 I wouldn't count the Crits solely because you also have a 5% chance to roll a natural 1. So yes you roll twice the dice for a 20, but 0 dice for the 1. Basically canceling themselves out.
I was considering wether or not to go with Sharpshooter recently in a game I’ve been playing. The DM added a homebrew rule in which we can take both a Feat and an ability score increase whenever we reach an ASI level, and I’m playing a Swarmkeeper Ranger.
If I somehow get to level 20, a single hit with a longbow after casting Zephyr Strike and marking an enemy with Favored Foe, could deal about 4d8 + 20 damage. (Longbow, Gathered Swarm, Zephyr Strike, Favored Foe, Foe Slayer, Sharpshooter and the Dexterity Modifier).
I’m not good at optimizing myself, and compared to other things at that level the damage is rather small, but I do find it fun as an idea.
Kobold, can you a do a video on high damage modifier build?
Well done
Can't wait for Pack Tactics 2
KOBOLD QUEST FOR PF1E WHAT!?
It's my preferred system, so every major release I make has a PF1/3.5 version.
My flavoring for sharpshooter (that I just thought of because why not) is that you use a really heavy arrow or something that makes it way more unwieldy but hits way harder
I always thought of it as a "head shot" kind of thing. You're focusing on a particular part (like the head) instead of a more "center of mass" that is commonly used for ranged weapons. There's a reason why police, military, and armed civilians are taught to aim for center mass. Its because you're MUCH more likely to hit a chest than you are to hit a head, arm, or leg. So I can see the power attack of sharp shooter reflecting on that concept.
I like personally the popular fix for those feats (-prof for hitting+2*prof for dmg) it's really balance this feat out. Makes it vaible in all level whit out being op in Early ones
It's never overpowered at any level though, and the nerf really punches martials in the guts until late tier 2. They're already weak enough without crippling them further.
@@haenhaen4282 it's kinda is by the fuck its kinda fucks other pontials feats. And makes them a must have +now you use them more. A -2 is much more manageable for lower level.
Les go
I think your breaking point math ignores the possibility of overkill and the associated wasted damage. It's significantly harder to calculate, but ignoring it makes power attacking look better than it is
I scrolled way too long to find this. This comment needs more engagement.
I would argue that yes that point is ignored but killing the enemy quicker in situation with multiple enemies and therefor reducing incoming damage makes more than up for the fact of overkill, as you can also easily overkill without powerattacks.
@@Velatus5978 you don't kill them quicker if you miss.
The point being made here is that sometimes it is possible to know with near certainty that a simple attack will do the job. In such circumstances, when a player fails to use the information available to them and blindly goes for the power attack, they waste 25% success chance for no benefit.
If we are just looking at average value, yeah that's something to consider. But also remember that without power attack, you could roll low on the damage dice and not kill that round. So for instance, +9 vs AC 17 dealing 1d8 damage and the enemy has 6 hp. 8/20*8/8 for power attack vs 13/20*3/8 without, Power attack has a 40% chance to kill, No power attack has a 24.4% chance (actually 26.7% including crit, but the math for that is obnoxious to write out), so power attack wins. However, at 4 hp, not power attacking has a 40.6% (42.3% actually technically) chance of killing, so its slightly better. It obviously varies based on the situation and you aren't going to know AC and current hp, but the point is just cause it overkills doesn't mean its worse.
Yes! 100 damage to an orc is actually only 15 damage. I get it, dead is the best condition to inflict against an opponent, but there is a LOOOOOOT of middle ground between dead and dead plus 8.
An interesting literal interpretation of sharpshooter allows for dual wielding option. The language requires an attack with a ranged weapon. Note, not a ranged attack with a ranged weapon. Ergo a normal melee attack with a dagger that possesses the ranged property qualifies.
All of a sudden 2 weapon fighting advocates have a more legitimate means to bump their damage output.
Surely tge dagger is a melee weapon with the thrown, Light and finesse properties. It isn't a ranged weapon.
fun fact, the higher your to hit bonus is, the higher your breaking point is. With a +11 to hit your breaking point becomes 22 and you may aswell power-attack anything that isnt a Tarasque
Thanks for the mathalicious summary. It's a shame little peeps like kobolds can't use GWM
But Kobold!!.. You’re a kobold!
My fighter has a -0 due to proficiency bonus & bracers of archery. Then add the arcane archer arrows damage & enjoy the chaos.
He does know that us pathfinder players watching 5e exist.
So, since sharp shooter says you only need to make an attack with a ranged weapon, could you potentially whack someone over the head with a heavy crossbow and activate both feats? That’d be kinda dumb.
Step one be an elf. Step two be a artificer battle smith. Step three get Elven Accuracy for intelligence and Great weapon master feat.
You are now using your intelligence to crit fish using a greatsword, battleaxe or maul.
Command your steel defender to use the help action or you can cast fary fire or web to gain advantage. Proceed to land power attacks all day.
A friend just got GWM and I told him to make an Excel document to see when is it worth using it, you don't need to have it open all the time just remember at what AC is it worth using it and that's it
With the wording of the power attack requirements, would a character with Sharpshooter, Great Weapon Master, and Tavern Brawler be able to take a -10 penalty to hit for +20 damage by making an improvised melee weapon attack with a heavy crossbow, since it's a ranged weapon with the heavy quality?
Power Attack should just be that you don't add your proficiency bonus to the attack roll, but add twice your proficiency bonus to the damage. The static -5/+10 messes with low level balance, and TBH I think doing it in terms of proficiency is just easier for players to understand.
Also, I support making Power Attack standard for everyone, possibly with a tweak to make it more tactical (so it's not almost always better). I think martials could use a few other nice toys, too, like free Protection fighting style for sword'n'board users, and similar for other loadouts. Power Attack could be exclusive to two-handed weapons, but doesn't need to be. Heck, you could allow Power Attacking with spells even.
Funnily enough, that modified power attack kind of screws things up more, as the question of "should I risk a power attack?" always returns an answer of yes until you start seeing higher ACs. It's not really a nerf to the ability, but instead a realignment of effectiveness. It's not as effective against low AC enemies like -5/+10, but it is way more effective against high AC enemies. It becomes the new standard for dealing damage until you fight enemies with really high AC, which are very uncommon at lower levels.
I recommend looking up the post "How to -5/+10 like a pro", as he goes over the math of varying versions of power attack in the replies to his post. My comment above is mostly a summary of what he said.
If you really want to reduce usage of power attacks, then you would actually want to increase the accuracy loss and damage, so they have to choose when to use it even more carefully. -10/+20 would be much harder to use, being effective in most cases only against really low AC enemies (~10 AC for the average character), with advantage being needed to have a good chance to be usable against moderate ACs.