Are Two Rock Amps TOO EXPENSIVE?
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- Опубликовано: 18 сен 2024
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I was looking into the prices of handwired Amps as I figured Two Rock amps had got very expensive...Turns out it's not just Two Rock?
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What is interesting is that there are some other very legitimate, relatively modest hobbies, that cost far more. Some items you purchase in other hobbies cost thousands but depreciate very fast. Something about guitars and amps is they seem to hold their value relatively well.
That’s what I’ve been saying. Blue collar People can blow a few grand on a shitty weekend in Vegas and be fine with it.
I got the v140 super duchess. I tried two rock, tone King, friedman, Fender handwired, I used to own a suhr. The v140 was the best of the lot to my ears and style. Each to their own, all great Amps. I was ready to drop 5k on a two rock. The difference was really nil. I love the super duchess. And I love I still have a bank balance. ❤
yeah me too; i kept my 65 princeton RI but put a celestion gold in it
Good point!
Same journey. Wanted a two rock. Tried a v140 with the 212 cab. Loved it. Bought it. No regrets. Sure a two rock would be nice but the v140 is definitely in the neighborhood.
+++ i would do the same as you did, but i went to Marshall JVM 410, because of multi chanel+++
I've played Two Rocks and they are great amps. I think they are probably worth the money given the face that Bludotone and other boutique amps are roughly in the same ball park as far as price is concerned. The biggest problem I see with the Two Rock and other tube amps is the weight (I'm 71) and the price and availability of tubes, not to mention getting the unit serviced. It cost's a pile of money if you have to send the amp back to the manufacture to get it serviced and there are becoming less and less people who can fix tube amps. Also with tube amps, in order to get them to sound great they have to be turned up to a certain volume before they sound really great. Personally from what I've experienced with modelers nowadays, they are really close depending on how you amplify them and I've owned a lot of boutique amps.
I really appreciate your honest assessment. There is so much hero worship of Two Rock that it is refreshing to hear someone give a balanced assessment. I own an older Two Rock. It is a really good amp, but so are lots of other amps.
They sound great, but here in Canada I did a price check on the Joey Landreth signature amp when it launched. The amp with cab was $13000. lol.
Pure observation, I thought the clean tone did differ. There was more bass to the Fender and less so with the Two Rock. There was more articulation to the Two Rock, but that may have been the less bass unmasking it. Not a good or bad comparison, certainly in the same ball park. That difference seemed to vanish with a pedal in front. Good sounds either way. £5k good though.... Not convinced, especially when I know of Two Rocks needing the same sort of maintenance for basic component failure from ill thought out placement and heat failure as far less expensive ones.
For my money the amp to get is a Mesa boogie Fillmore 50. Awesome fender cleans with a master volume. And a low gain and high gain channel if you want. Good effects loop. Doesn’t get enough love…. I bought two to play in stereo… in my basement to no one… would love to get out and gig again but young kids and demanding day job. You always inspire me JNC! Keep it up
Two-Rock amps are worth every penny and to define them 'expensive' ends up being subjective to who's paying and what's their wage, really. In the end you pay for the hourly rate of top amp builders to build Two-Rock amps and for the premium components they use. Having that said, in my honest opinion they give you way more than what other amps with similar aim/proposal could ever give you. I use a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe as my rehearsing amp for my blues project. It gives me enough quality and volume, and of course a Fender sound, but for the concerts and recordings, I use my Two Rock. One thing I find amazingly better with the Two-Rock amps is how well they take pedals in comparison to the Fender Pro Reverb 68 or the Fender Deluxe Reverb. To me there is no comparison on that front.
Sucker... Lmao that Two Rock marketing department got you bent over, huh?
The Cardiff is only about $1300. A T-Rock SSS is about $7K. These are very different price points. And very few guitar players wouldn't classify $7K for a head to be anything but expensive.
@@ArtoftheDial sure, I have had three Two-Rock amps before which were above 4k and I am lucky to love what the Cardiff delivers (head and matching cab can’t be found and I don’t think you could get it for less than 2.5k euros here in Europe).
I surely understand the whole point of the question but still, I insist they are worth every penny and the definition of expensive depends entirely on the budget and perception of the buyer.
Unless you are a doctor, lawyer, or a high profile player then it’s simple…2 rocks are expensive.
A regular gig will probably pay about $300 and the conditions of the venue are not always favorable for plugging a 7k amp. No way I’d take a 7k amp for those gigs. It’s like taking a Ferrari to work….only a few individuals can do that…thus the meaning of expensive.
@@netzarim1277 Sure, don't take me wrong: I never said they are cheap or affordable. The title of the video asks if they are TOO expensive. I focused on that because normally we rate expensive not only what costs more but also what is not worth the price. You pay 200 usd for a bad amp it will be 200 usd more than you should have spent, therefore, expensive because it's expendable. 5, 6, 7k usd for any piece of gear is to be considered pricey, not matter what's the income. I take Two-Rock amps only to a handful of gigs, never to anything that pays below 500 usd, and really depends also on the venue, city, area, etc. Many times I gig with more affordable guitars too, so if something goes wrong the damage/loss is minimal. Whenever you buy a Two-Rock though... you will feel it is worth every penny every time you play it. I can promise you that.
I get a sense that you are getting a better feel with the two rock. Its subtle difference in your playing, which is excellent by the way!
I haven’t owned a two rock but I have owned a Ceriatone SSS. I miss that amp everyday. I play fenders of all sorts daily and none of the come close to what the SSS did for me. Amps based on the Dumble linage just have a different thing going on imho. Definitely suited the way I play guitar and I’d absolutely buy a two rock if I could.
Yes. A good Fender Reverb is all you really need. Problem is they can get noisy and the Trem and Verb are known to go out. I bought a hand built 5 watt tube (Super loud for home setting- I cannot crank it past 1/5 volume in my smallish room. It works great and was $400. I use reliable pedals for Trem and Verb which are NEARLY as good (not quite), but 100x's more reliable.
The Two Rock is great- better built then Fender IMHO. In reality, they both sound about the same, but unless you are made odf money, it's a hard pass for most of us. My advice, for about $500, you can snatch a small tube amp and grab some killer pedals. Winning all day long. With the money you saved, add a Fractal FM3 and decent FRFR studio monitors (to get Stereo) to the party to add in numerous quality effects.
The ‘Cordy manoeuvre’ on a strat is when the player frangilates their slimp, whilst using the pedal to undercate the cund.
agreed
You both must be Brits 😂
@@neal_laugman _beep boop now why y’all be thinking that?_
Cund means something entirely different here in the states 😂
@@paulkontz _beep boop what does cund mean in the colonies?_
Very nice playing as usual, JNC. I'm definitely not hearing thousands of dollars of difference. When listening while reading the comments I didn't even notice when you switched amps in the intro jam.
Of course not, this is close micing. You wouldnt hear a difference from a moderler either recorded. In the room its a different story. Live in the mix, you wouldnt distinguish them from a hot rod deluxe.
@@jfar3340 Close mics smooth over a lot of differences. I believe these are both 6L6 based amps, but the difference between an el34/84 based amp would be clear, close mic’ed or not. The in the room samples using each amps own speaker show there is a clear difference. The Two Rock is thicker in the mids. The Fender has a glassier top, which I like. How much difference there would be with further tone knob adjustments is unclear. Different speakers could make a pronounced difference.
As very fair and unbiased video. Love your content Cordy.
There is a lot of emphasis on sound vs budget, which I totally understand. However if you listen to the recent Dipped In Tone interview with Eli Lester from Two-Rock, he makes the point that where their amps really shine is in the actual feel when playing through them. He even admits that amps in general can only sound "so" good to a point, but where Two-Rock strive to go beyond is in the physical interaction between the player and the amp. This is where the difference seems to be, though as always it's down to the individual to determine how valuable that is to them.
I purchased a Studio Pro 35 just before it was discontinued and subsequently replaced by the Studio Signature, along with the enormous price hike. I can say it's one of the nicest sounding and feeling clean amps I have ever played, but I certainly couldn't justify looking into any other Two-Rock model unless I landed myself in a huge amount of expendable income.
I bought a used Cornell Romany TR20 for £1300. The Two Rock sounded more open than the fender, but £5k is a lot, but not if you’ve dropped 20k+ on guitars.
Hi John,
money is not the issue and I could afford it but I don´t want to pay this price.
There is so many excellent amps with less price, as you mentioned "Amplified Nation", "Ceriatone", "Suhr" etc...
At the end I could always look for a good, solid Fender "Black Face"!
To you and yours, all the best!
Have a nice weekend!
🙂
I prefer the sound if the Fender in this video. The TR has a mid-scoop that causes a loss of articulation that the Fender has in spades. The mids of the Fender have more bite and clarity that make more sense in a band mix. The Two Rock sounds more “hi-fi”.....but that’s pointless in a single channel combo, in my opinion. It would be better suited as a power amp in a wet-dry-wet rack rig.
One more thing: Two-Rock's customer service is impeccable in every possible way. Recently I contacted them to ask for a pair of amp handles - mine are by now very worn out - and their response was fast, friendly and the price was cheaper than Fender handles with similar standards. Sure, you will say "after paying so much for the amp they must be like that" but it is not always the case when you pay more.
So true. Good customer service isn’t a guarantee, even when the product is expensive. Just ask Ferrari owners 😂
I concur. Gil is so polite and helpful
This is very interesting as I’ve been considering selling my Two Rock for a less expensive amp and was looking at that very Fender 68 pro! The advantage with the Two Rock is the extensive tonal options but also the clean headroom. I’d still need the headroom with the Fender at gig volumes but it sounds like it may not have it…🤔
A Twin Reverb, then?
@@DeadReckoner a bit too heavy for my liking. Might have to put up with the Two Rock🤣
Great video!
Both sound good really but this Fender amp, and a lot of them as well, does exhibit some cluttering "woof" in the low end/lower mids that makes them somewhat harder to like to my taste. Usually, turning the bass down takes care of that, and then some mild mid-boost gets it to my happy place right away. A speaker swap is something I like also.
One of the things I can hear in your demo, and I think it is the case, is that the sound of the Two Rock "feels closer" or comes more "towards" me and is easier to hear in a mix.
The price difference is maybe not justified, but the hand built stuff from Two Rock is amazing.
I have had a few Fender amps in for service, and the build quality is not amazing nor is it straight up bad either. But for the asking price of a 68 custom pro reverb I would try and save up for a Suhr Bella.
Two rocks probably could be priced slightly lower, but at the end of the day they have incredibly versatile tone and gain staging. A classic reverb signature has like a total of 3 gain stages with the addition of send and return controls for the reverb. Because of that the amp is a full package and you can pretty much play without a large pedal board or any pedal board at all. That being said, the fender reissues are very hard to beat in terms of overall value. A regular person will not be able to tell any difference between the two, but if having a two rock makes YOU feel good, then idk it’s probably worth the purchase
I preferred the tones from the Fender, but people can certainly buy whatever they want -- there's no "better" when it comes to guitar tone. I mean, sure, there are some amps that do just sound bad, but beyond that, it's preference. There's no denying that Two Rock has staked out a place in the high-end segment of the market, and they are making all the right moves marketing-wise in that segment.
Robben Ford was using a Lil Walter 59 head before he moved to Europe last year. They’re a 50 watt handwired ptp amp. $3k. Idk what amp he played through on the just released live album, recorded in 2021… but it sounds great to me.
For me, the Dumble thing was always about the magical overdrive tone, great cleans are a nice bonus. But I’m not from the John Mayer generation lol
Hello..... Could you do a video on guitar fret board radius and how it does or doesnt effect fast lead playing? I think the majority think you need a flat radius for speed, I think you would be a good judge on this! Cheers
I think you tactfully hit the nail on the head. Lawyers, moneyed men, cork sniffers and such are the ‘market’ for these boutiques, which Two Rock is content to corner. I’ve come to ignore all of the ‘high end’ gear demo vids and tend to seek out more working man level gear demo channels, yours being the best of those. To my reckoning it would take 27.5 gigs to pay for that amp, 30 with financing. Pretty much a year’s worth of gigging for a weekend warrior like myself. No thanks.
Well, yeah, if someone is in the music industry at that level and is trying to make some money, that someone is best served by the equipment that is just under the breaking point of diminishing returns. Plenty of top level guitar players today are using these amps as well, and for many people it's a source of inspiration. These amps, on their part, provide the highest level of quality and versatility. I had one of these and sold it because I ended up in a situation where I couldn't really use an amp at all because of noise level, and I switched to modelers instead. But, if I wanted to have only one amp again, this would be it.
Agreed. There is obviously a target market for this type of gear. I imagine if I were on tour making bank, I would consider spending for that quality and reliability. Alas, I’m a poor working stiff that can only press his face against the window and dream.
Great playing John! That Two Rock amp sounds absolutely amazing. No comparison, imo.
08:52 "...JNC100 to get 100% off their All Access Pass..." Now *that* is quite a deal!! :)
Also, I thought the Two Rock seemed somewhat 2D compared to the 3D Pro Reverb.
Also, could think (in the UK) about how that kind of £££ would do with Cornell or Flynn (Glasgow) for handwired sonic goodness.
At this price point, price isn't determined by neither the features nor the work that went into the product, but merely the amount of money that people are willing to pay for it, voodoo territory. As you pointed out, manufacturing a point to point wired amp can be done for far less. Two Rock sounds great of course, but essentially is the Fender with some cleaned up lower mids and well rounded upper extension. There, I said it.
The Two Rock has a much warmer sound. Now is that warmth worth the extra cash? I'll more than likely never find out.😂 And as always, great playing. 👏👏
the 68 RI is definitely warmer in the video
@@jfar3340 Absolutely. It's really just a matter of different preamp voicing choices, and amp section tweaks none of which cost significantly, if anything more to do, and I see no reason to pay so much for either amp. Both companies take full advantage of their reputation.
they both sound great, but from my end I'm missing out a key component: how the output transformer drives the speaker, and basically being in the same room as the amp, and I also can't gauge the response under the fingers either. Another great vid though, with tasty playing. Well done! btw if you get a chance do try a Laney Lionheart 😀
unfortunately your best clean tone to date (TR) 😂🎉
It depends on the needs and budget. Will it make you a better player? How long does it take to make that return on your investment. I think the Bella is a great value for the cash.
IMO the second half of the video is the really interesting bit.. comparing the combos using their own speakers and cabinets gives the true picture.. you’re paying for the whole lot (and that is how they were designed)
The Fender sounds good, but it can’t keep up with the Two Rock.
“Are they worth the money?” Is a very person question.. everyone will have their own answer to that, and they’re all valid. I think it’s safe to assume that these amps aren’t for everyone.. they’re not meant to be for everyone.
Two Rock are a prime example of the law of diminishing returns.
If you’re patient you can find Two Rocks on the secondhand market for more attainable prices.
I own a Studio Signature head & cab which I picked up secondhand.. and once in a while I wonder if I should sell it on.. then I plug it in and play it and the answer is No. I have a handful of valve amps and have been owned many more. Other things get close but nothing else I’ve tried and the same sound and feel.
If anyone is looking for a hand wired US built tube amp for a price that will compete with a PCB Fender then look at used Dr Z amps.. the value for money is second to none.
I had and sold a Two Rock CRS 100/50, it could, in the right hands, sound good crunch with the FET and gain pushed up a bit but I didn’t think it sounded as good for rock as my other amps, especially with pedals, which push my Marshal and fender amps a lot better. Also it had a pretty significant compressed sound to my ears, which may have been partly tubes and biasing but it is something that I know at least one other guy I knew hated about his as well.
I wound up replacing it with a Ceriatone JM100, which is everything it was and more, especially with all of the available mods they offered. Additionally it does not have the overly compressed tone and I think in all I spent like $2K. Now since then I have purchased a Two Rock TS-1 100/50, the newer one with upgraded effects loop and it is without a doubt, the single most versatile and useful D style amp I’ve ever played and to my ears the best Two Rock amp made.
would you say the JM100 is Ceriatones Classic Reverb Signature? I suppose you stated that but I'm keen for your assessment again. cheers
I’d love to own a Two Rock but, in truth, I’ve had to switch mostly to modeling over the last few years. I have a hard time paying a premium for an amp I can’t play live. Perhaps if I had a home studio, it might make a difference.
Hard to argue with the tone, though…
I've lusted over a 2Rock for a long time. I have a couple of Fenders 57 Dlx Tweed and a 64 Dlx Reverb and Marshall and a Fiedmam. I gig in multiple bands and use it all. At the end of the day it will sound like Fender. I know they're extremely well built. I don't know any local musicians gigging with any. But just way to much to justify the cost. I'm not a doctor or a lawyer.😂
You can get a used two rock combo for under £2k. I assume your 4 amps cost more than that
Hi Bill. True but a Two Rock will never sound like a Marshall or a Friedman. But it will always sound like a Fender as that's where they took the inspiration from. No one amp can do all properly
No, fair enough. For me, I get all my Marshall etc sounds from pedals and the Two Rock is the perfect platform for those.
@@kmarchi1
Honesty preferred the sound of the Pro-reverb…. More character. I personally draw a line under amps over £2500. I really feel that should be enough. Plus, i personally find it inconvenient & annoying to get into the quagmire of annual valuations on ‘Specified items’ on insurance policies.
If Fender would update the Tube version Deluxe Reverb with attenuation and an effects loop. Maybe a master nob as well. This wouldn’t be a discussion. Marshall just did this with the JTM.
Is it possible to do it through modding
Fender has addressed modeling. That’s the answer they have gone with. This is a discussion about wanting tube amps that have the updated functions that old fenders don’t have while maintaining that beautiful tube clean pedal platform sound. Which is exactly what two rock offers at a heavy price.
@@ray_maestro_ I meant modifications and not modeling
@@ray_maestro_ btw I don't think tone master has fx loop. Nor does 2rck
Unless you need a ton of clean headroom hard to justify the price of the Two Rock. If your need a master volume you can buy a hand-wired Dr Z Zlux for around the same price as the hand-wired Fender. I don’t blame Two Rock for charging what they charge but that is way more than any professional player I know can realistically afford to spend on an amplifier, so they really are prestige items for home players for the most part.
Yes, a Two Rock will cost you. But oh my, what a tone! I've had an Opal for about 15 years and it has changed my playing. Everything, and I mean everything, has an effect on the tone of the guitar coming out of the amp. Pick angle and pressure, palm mute pressure, left hand pressure, guitar volume on 8.25 instead of 9.5...everything.
Are they too expensive? Well, like @BeachJazzMusic wrote, the TCO (total cost of ownership) is non trivial. I literally bought a tacklebox full of tubes back when I got the amp. Done at least 4 repairs on the amp myself. Saved me $1200 right there.
Hmm, the two rock is capable of being way more than a clean pedal platform I think.
Check out the Austin guitar house demo especially of the 50w version, beautiful overdriven lead sounds using the FET gain/tone stack bypass, it’s far more versatile that the fender equivalent /suhr bella imo.
What is a Two Rock?
#1 extremely good noise to signal ratio
#2 extremely effective EQ section
#3 probably the best master in the market which makes a TR the perfect amp for home players
#4 extremely good reverb. Bloomfield drive comes probably with the best reverb in a drive section.
#5 a lot of amps make every guitar sound the same. TR is different. It is like playing your guitar through a magnifying glass.
#6 Build quality and parts selection is second to none. Personally I think that a huge junk of their magic lies in the quality of the transformers.
TR amps educate you to work on your tone.
In some areas my Swart Atomic JR does the same for 1/3 of the price. Especially in regard to #5. But the Swart has a tendency of being noisy.
All in all, I think they are the best amps one can buy these days.
Amplified Nation has a great lineup
Surely it’s all relative. Like, if you’ve got a rich uncle it’s not a problem
The two rock takes the cake
I’ll stick with my DR Z Z Master, Maz Jr, Super Reverb, Electra Dyne, Fillmore, and of course, the Deluxe Reverb! I could buy any of the 2 amps I own for the price of one. So many good amps under 2k.
Will say I truly believe the 68 Reissue series is the best thing Fender makes. They all sound great, aren't vintagey to their detriment, and are an attainable price (before the plague they were genuinely a good price). I like mine so much that I've sort of convinced myself that if I'm shopping for an upgrade for my 68 I can skip over every $2000-3000 amp and instead hold out for something in the $5000 range.
you can buy a Two Rock 2x12 and plug your 68 into it and that gets you at least a good percent of the way there. I dunno what the market is like now but before prices went crazy the Two Rock cabinets were about the same prices as everyone else's cabinets. I bought my last one for like 800 dollars, 2x12 with G12-65s
@@TCMx3 Quick Reverb check, they're a couple grand now. I'll pass.
@@GitShiddy huh I see a couple on reverb for like 850 dollars?
If you want a premium amplifier with exceptional customer service, it would be a Two Rock. All performance with a team you can go to anytime comes with a price. That being said, as a player, I’ve never felt so connected to my instrument or amplifier when my guitar is plugged into a TR.
The Pro Reverb is my favorite sounding fender and the TR is a shade rounder / smoother at the initiation of the note which my ears like. But I’m sure we cannot hear the differences adequately on RUclips, it’s an in person experience only. Maybe if you have some kind of magical sound system but even then we are relying on the recording equipment etc.
My only question is about whether the internal components are top quality. I’ve heard Fender cuts costs and uses caps in their HW units that will be about to expire following warranty period. If so, that’s pathetic and shameful for any involved in that company from the bean counters to the ceo to the sale forces who have to sell them.
I liked your video when you compared the two rock to the mesa lone star. Maybe you could find a Welagen overdrive special to compare to the two rock?
Simple. Get a Fender amp and a ParaEQ deluxe and adjust until it sounds like the Two Rock
Great playing and tone, Where did you have all the switches set on the TR? Please post a picture of them. Thanks.
I actually preferred the Fender - that was a surprise!
Your playing is really great!
Two Rock are absolutely and ridiculously over expensive. Look inside of them. They are extremely well made, but at the end of the day they are just a bunch of inexpensive electronic components that don’t come close to the price of the amps. The real reason they cost so much is because there are people who will pay for it…
Preferred the bassier, warmer tone of the Fender
That last jam was awesome. I don’t suppose you fancy breaking it down at some point?
If you could remind me I probably could!!
This all could be done with a klon and an eq pedal through a deluxe reverb.
Don't even need the klon. As with most luxury goods, above a certain price point its all cork sniffing and diminishing returns
@@gdawgs101 yeah for sure. Meant to say a klon based pedal. Real klons are peak cork sniffing.
@@jasonkucharski7411 Empress ParaEQ Deluxe with a Deluxe Reverb. That pedals does wonders
If only that were true
In a word, Yes.
having built for 3 major companies DiazAMplification/MatAmp USA/QuestTone.......Parts are HORRIBLY expensive NOW...., It takes me @ $1500 for parts ta build a head @ Jobber pricing.
It’s a case of diminishing returns, isn’t it? As soon as you record them, add IRs, FX and dynamics or play loud and live in a band any minor differences are swallowed. There are so many things you could spend the difference in cost on - mics, monitors etc
The two rock sounds more present, in your face etc. but like everything these days it is so expensive. As are custon shop Fenders, Gibsons etc. but then again a pound of butter seems also outrageously expensive...
Cordy doesn't play amps. He stares them down until he gets the tone he wants.
Yes they sound terrific, one of the best US hand wired amplifiers however the exorbitant price tag precludes the majority of working musicians from being able to afford one.
US retail for a new Two-Rock Head is $5299 before tax bringing the total to well beyond $5600. UK retail + VAT is equally prohibitive whatever the attention to detail, quality of components or how wonderful they might sound. So well done Two-Rock for being a standard other manufacturers are judged by but please find a way to bring your legendary sound to all musicians.
You may find your profit margin increasing exponentially rather than losing precious revenue. Quality should have its price, agreed, but here one really does have to wonder !
But comparatively speaking, an amp like this is still a better value than a Murphy Lab Les Paul, Wood Library PRS or even most of the Fender custom shops, which for the increase in price only offer you aesthetics.
The question that interests me is how close a Modeler can get to emulating those sounds.
Depends on the application. Recorded tones John has been showing amazing exmaples how to do that. In the room it is just an other story. That is the number 1 reason why ppl still buying tube amps in 2023 I guess :D
recorded yes, in a room no
@@achill3usoverclocking874 20 years ago when I was using DG Stomps and DS60s as the FRFRs, I found I could get mighty close to my Delux Reverb sound but I needed to place them side by side and do an A B comparison as I adjusted the Stomps and Speakers. But I got close - and that was 20 + years ago. So I am sure I can do it again with an HX StompXL. Now if you chase down just a few amp sounds like this and then nail some effects sounds - really that's it for a pro. Bedroom players though want to do 200 sounds so that is where none of them are close - no attention to detail.
I think a good modeler can get *close* even in the room but it's highly dependent on the monitoring system. Assuming a great modeler as the preamp, the closest you'd probably get it would be through a tube power amp and a real cab. Near the other end of the spectrum would be something like running that modeler through a crappy set of monitors or a crappy FRFR.
Your question could be how close can a Modeler feel under my fingers or sound to my ears or the visceral vibe of the electric guitar experience? Can I convince the guitar player in the audience that I have a TwoRock or a TwoRock preset. When touring I would check out the other guitarists on the show. I’ll never forget this player with a very simple rig: Fender 1964 Bandmaster, a 1x12 cab, Boss Reverb, Zendrive, and Strat. THIS guy was “killing it!”
Modeler vs a Two Rock ? Aren’t we comparing a sweet apple to a “T-Bone?”
I wish it wasn’t true, but the Two Rock is far better in this comparison. It’s more open and articulate.
You literally would never notice unless you A/Bd them like this. You'd never say that fender tone wasn't great if you just heard it by itself.
@@gdawgs101Fair point
Is there a grounding issue on that K-Line? The buzz showed up on both amps ... or maybe the house wiring??
When one examines the quality, hand-wired premium components, cabinet wood, all of it, what would you charge? The same. Its value and price are far more reasonable and justified than my Gibson L5 and its current value compared to less expensive, better quality hand carved ones. This is to say I don't feel as if with Two Rock, we're paying for the name or the brand.
If you work and Two Rock, you get great benefits the owner says. Perhaps one day I will be able to play one of their amps.
"This amp thing has sort of gotten out of control". True.
Now put 3 of the fenders in tri mono and a handful of pedals and shootout vs the two rock😅
YES!
I am seeing $5300 and up for the vintage model. Yes , way too expensive by about 1000 to 1500 imo.
Although YT makes a mess of any sound they sound great ... but I can't afford one..let alone two.. 😅
To be fair, why are guitar amp manufacturers worse than guitar manufacturers? Comparatively speaking, amps like this are still a better value than a Murphy Lab Gibson, Wood Library PRS or even most of the Fender custom shops, which for the increase in price only really offer you aesthetics. Two Rocks do give you the ultimate in quality and versatility. FET boost at the front, a very powerful EQ section where every knob is meaningful and responsive throughout the range, boost switches at all frequency levels, two switchable EQ stacks and the ability to bypass EQ entirely for a more raw sound and feel. Followed by a beautiful reverb, master control and topped off with the final stage of contour adjustment. What's really impressive is that you really have to work hard to get a bad tone out of it.
Although TR amps are certainly expensive… professional classical musicians spend WAY more money on their instruments than electric guitarist do. It’s not even close. These amps are quite INexpensive by comparison.
Seems the Two Rock is a broader set of frequencies, do you need that in a mix? Might do? Might not?
I’ve worn Jordans my whole life. My dad loves 1960’s Chevy cars. I don’t mind mystique making items popular and expensive. But the guitar industry goes too far. None of the guys that can afford this stuff write hit records. Don’t gate keep the functions and sounds people won’t. Imagine wanting a Gibson Les Paul standard $3000, and a two rock amp $5000. You just spend almost $10,000 dollars just to impress yourself in the garage. And you still haven’t got your King of tone and klon yet.
Two Rock are so expensive that they make Suhr and Soldano look like budget options. 😂
Mooer 010 do very good job.
Which components does TR use that are exclusive ?
For the algorithm - Can we get a Pre 100K Celebratory Two-Rock and Positive Grid Spark comparison?
Mike Bloomfield was able to get by with a Fender Twin. I can imagine what he would think of this nonsense.
I don't believe there is $3000.00 worth of tone between the Fender and the Two Rock, at least from this side of the computer screen. Add a drummer, a PA, etc. and I just don't hear it.
Of course they are.
Well, I didn’t watch this video, I listened. I thought it was the same amp the whole time!
I’ve finally learned to only buy what you need and not overspend on something you MIGHT need lol
Two Rock sounds like a record😎
Do you have any experience with Two-Rock Kemper profiles?
It’s tricky, the two rock
Depends on how many they want or need to sell.
Their problem would be - how to charge less for their amps without pissing off their existing customers who paid through the nose.
Just my personal opinion, but I've never been impressed with the sound of this style of boutique amp. They all sound beige to me and like their balls have been cut off. I'm someone who rates Johnny Thunders a lot higher than any of the players you mentioned though.
With all my tube amps, irrespective of price and brand, they sound like me.
John, you really showed how close different amps could be when you made the Lonestar VS Two Rock video. I feel that sounded closer than the Fender in this video.
I really dont know how to describe it but something about the Two Rock is more open and sweet sounding. But as you said with a Fender it is like 80-90% there…maybe with some EQ and compression you could get it close to where the money isn’t worth it.
sweet no (an amp is not candy), open yes: it has more high end. The 68 RI is darker, as are most 68 RI. It's not better or worse, just different, and it definitely comes across in the recording.
I don't remember the Lonestar vs Two-Rock video but that's interesting because, in the Helix, The Lonestar model (Cali Texas Ch 1) is by far my favorite high headroom clean. I'm used to my old "red knobs" Twin as well as my current Revv Dynamis 7-40 which both have very chimey cleans and the Lone Star gets close in the Helix. I've heard demos of Andy Timmons with it as it was his main amp for years and it just sounds glorious. But so does my Dynamis and it's nowhere near the price of the Two-Rock... And it suits me better. I want a little more attack, a little more chime.
Here it's hard to say which sounds better for me as volumes were not the same (the Two-Rock sounded quieter for the cleans). I like the chime of the Two-Rock better though. The Fender sounded more woolly in the low end. Less defintion. And it's interesting John mentions Robben Ford because, years ago, when he couldn't play his Dumble, he usually asked for a "red knobs" Twin as a replacement and I can understand why. To this day it remains the best clean of any amp I played through other than my Revv Dynamis. That red knobs Twin would be closer to the Two Rock than the Pro Reverb 68 reissue here because it had similar attack and chime. No wooliness at all.
The Dynamis is a 40 watts gem though and it cost me $2600 Canadian dollars in 2021 (around 1500 pounds at today's exchange rate) and it has a gain channel that is also killer on top of its amazing clean channel. Even at 40 watts it remains clean with my Strat at 2-3 o'clock so plenty of headroom for a 40 watter. I just love that amp and nothing the Two-Rock is giving here would justify paying 4x the price for basically a different feel? Because tone-wise, I do not hear a justification for that price. No audience would hear the difference...
I'm not sure if Two Rock amps are expensive, but they are definitely too expensive for my needs.
Yes. They are to expensive
Trade all the modeling gadgets for a Two Rock!
TWO Rock is better BUT not for that price difference, not unless you are a very successful touring musician that can afford that difference
friedmans suhrs and vintage marshalls and fenders are built just as good as two rock but don't have the same voicing. two rocks are maybe a bit too expensive but there is nothing better built out there except real trainwrecks and dumbles which are way more expensive and not made anymore.
I think the TR sounds better but the question is is it £4k better?
Absolutely no piece of equipment in the music world sounds $4K better than any other one. The question is not about just one sound, it's about the role that piece of gear plays in your "system". In the past, I have paid hundreds if not thousands of dollars more for things, sometimes just because they can physically fit into a certain space, or because I want to have my setup a particular way, let alone how they sound. My point is that the sound itself is just a piece of the puzzle. And speaking of sound, these amps are incredibly versatile and I can't think of an amp that would allow for more tweaking and sound great all the way.
Everything is too expensive. Cozzy livs.