GLOCK ISSUES AT ROGERS SHOOTING SCHOOL
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- Опубликовано: 7 фев 2025
- I ran into a very interesting issue with my guns a couple weeks back when I attended the elite Rogers Shooting School in Elijay, GA.
Despite running a quality gun, with quality parts, and quality ammunition, it didn't perform as reliably as I expected.
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The fact that you had those issues and STILL kicked ass at Rogers is awesome. 😎
The big takeaway I got and I hope others get from this that major brands can still get finnicky and we should absolutely be vetting our stuff. Thankfully it didnt like Syntech that you were using for an isolated class, instead of not liking HSTs/ Gold Dots.
Weirdest issue I had was an AR-15 that grouped 1-2 MOA with 62 grain ammo but with 55 grain ammo that group would end up being 7-8 MOA. 1-8 twist. Buddy had the same make and model- his group sizes stayed the same with 62 and 55 grain ammo. Gunsmith couldnt find any issues in the barrel. Gas was set properly. Handguard torqued to spec and solid.
Ended up trading it off to a fella that ONLY shot 62 grain ammo and said he didnt care. That still bothers me a decade later that i dont know why that rifle did that. I'd drop the brand, but their fanboy following can be just as rabid as Glock and we see how that's going for you 😂😢
Great video, my friend!
I had the same issue with my Gen 3 G19 a few years ago. I replaced the magazine springs with springs from Wilson Combat and a new mag release spring from Vickers Tactical. I’m not sure which one was causing the issue but after those updates my issue went away. I also took a class about a year ago and shooting brand new Winchester ammo had numerous failure to fires. This made for a long and somewhat embarrassing day and cost me a spot in the final shoot off at the end of class. Loudest noise in the world is click when you expect a bang! Hope you get yours figured out. Good luck!
I had my red dot fly off my carry gun during an IDPA match back in 2022; the screws that held the sight onto the plate weren't long enough and just gave way on the very last stage on my final target of the day. The thing flew off like the enbloc clip from a Garand. It never lost zero and gave no warning it was coming loose. I reattached with longer screws and haven't had an issue since.
During a class i discovered that unde stress while seating all my 7 round checkmate magazines i could pop the top round out inducing a malfunction. Wasn't ideal but got me to carrying CMC power mags.
I've seen this happen with other firearms, where the shooter felt it was necessary to "redesign" their firearm by adding all this aftermarket stuff. Firearms were designed by the engineers to run without having to replace OEM with all of this other stuff. Glocks are able to run just fine without having to replace the Glock parts that come with the factory parts. Change back to the OEM parts and see if the problem continues.
The only non-OEM parts on this gun are the trigger shoe, disconnector, and backplate.
OEM Trigger Bar
OEM Slide Stop
OEM Springs
OEM Magazines
Not to mention this exact combination of parts has been good for thousands of rounds of training classes, matches, & practice sessions.
The only new variable was the ammo.
Ah, yes, the “different-bullet-profile-bullet-at-shooting-school trick,” stated in a Maxwell Smart voice. One of my Gen3 Glock 22 pistols did this to me, multiple times, at ECQC in 2005. After being 100% reliable with several 165-grain loads, it would lock-open, with live rounds still in the mag, with budget Remington 180-grain FMJ. I had already transitioned to the SIG P229*, for police duty, at the time, so, fixing the problem was not important. I sold that Glock, with full disclosure, to a colleague, who wanted a spare G22, and said that he would fix it.
*My only holster, for my P229, at the time of the class, was my Safariland 070 duty holster. I did switch to my duty rig, to run the SIG, during the lunch break.
My g19 gen 4 does the same thing. It will lock back when I have rounds in the mag. I swapped the recoil spring and extractor. All OEM parts and it still does it. Doesn't matter the brand. Except more frequently with amend 2 mags. Even got a new lower and does the same thing. I have about 10,000 rounds threw it so far.
I hate to be the guy who recommends purchases to fix problems, but try the kagwerks glock slide release. It moves it up to the slide basically. I had the same problems with Glocks in the beginning. It happens when you're building a grip and slapping the support hand on the side of the pistol instead of "building the grip". Usually happens when trying to draw quickly.
It was happening while shooting left hand only, so that ruled out the possibility that I was riding the slide stop.
@@TheSuitedShootist Ah, then never mind. Interesting issue, I've never had ammo cause slide locks, but that's tolerances for ya.
I had a spring position issue with the slide catch on a gen 5 G17. Couldn't sling shot the slide because the spring wasn't pulling the lever down. I think it had to due with spring bowing out before the part was installed.
Always vet your carry gun/ ammo/ holster/ optic combination. I carry sig p320, glocks, and just added a shadow systems mr920P (this will be replacing my g19). I never carry a firearm until it has gone 1000 rounds without a failure. My mr920p had at least one failure per mag for the first 11 mags. Then I ran 800 rounds of various range ammo followed by 200 rounds of federal hst 124gr standard pressure with zero failures. You need to vet your weapon holster ammo and optic as a package.
Absolutely. I've run this thing through multiple classes without a hiccup. The only new variable was this ammo, which surprised me.
Serious question here, who decides the standard? You? The community? Myself? Because there is no exact number of rounds you can put down a pistol before it can't break. You'd need some kind of ultrasonic or radiographic measuring device to inspect all the parts for microfractures. I've had an Elite LTT break on me a hair above 1000 rounds. I've had guns break on me at 100. And some in the 20,000s. You simply can't tell 99% of the time when it will happen.
@ no man made machine is fool proof. Any machine will eventually fail. And, all machines have a break in period, and risk of material flaws. It is my experience that with most polymer striker guns 200rds gets you past the break in. 800-900 gets you past the most severe parts quality issues. Then you have a window of statistical reliability until normal wear starts to become an issue with proper maintenance of course. I take photos of critical wear surfaces periodically and compare to previous photos often under a desk mounted magnifying glass. I look for changes in wear patterns or geometry of parts to help predict future problems. Lubricant regularly. Clean periodically. Your weapon may not fail on range trip 2 because you didn’t put some grease on it after range trip 1. But, it may have caused uneven wear on the slide rails that pushes the slide slightly to one side increasing pressure that causes increased wear on that side over time. So on range trip 132 or what ever the slide comes forward at just enough of an angle that it pushes the tip of a round into the side of the breech face just enough to jam. And then only if the round is just enough “wrong” meaning seating depth, seating angle or projectile geometry/weight variations.
Every airplane has two specific numbers first is the number of hours before you can venture too far from the airport. Aka breakin. Second is the maximum number of hours you can put on the air frame. The number of hours after that it doesn’t matter how many times you rebuilt/replaced engines props landing gear and hundreds of other parts by law that is the end of the life of a commercial aircraft.
My g19 or p320 I keep inside a 1k-20k window. My p365 xmacro I plan on more like 1k-15k window while changing out the mags twice as often. Those tiny overstuffed mags are its weak point in my opinion. Just like all the new micro hi-cap guns.
After they hit that 20k or 15k mark, I build a replacement for them. Once I get the new gun set up the way I like it, optic mount, stipple job, night sights what ever you want to do to it. I take a photos of the internals and use a grey paint pen to mark the screw heads and iron sight dovetails so I can tell if screws are backing loose. Then to the range for break in. Once I am confident in the new pistol my old pistol becomes my training gun. I shoot it at about an 80% old gun 20% new gun ratio for personal training, classes, and even so idpa matches.
My glock gen 4 19 milled for an rmr type 2 night sights and other all factory parts averaged 1 failure per 1k rounds from 4k rounds to 26k rounds. 26001-27000rnds I had 29 failures and a significant decrease in accuracy. At 27k I put the third recoil spring in 3k rounds early and failures decreased by half roughly. The older a gun gets the more picky it gets.
Moral of the story. Buy quality weapons and ammo, do your break in, know the lifespan of your machine. But NEVER FORGET that it is just a machine.
Interesting. To be honest I’ve never run that ammo but I’ve seen folks run it in matches and I’ve never heard them complain about this.
So the issue was likely the ammo not the glock? Clickbait.
It seems to have been a combination of the two.
Other guns run Syntech just fine.
Not clickbait. A negative interaction of a bullet profile with slide release/stop tabs has been documented with other pistols as well, including some CZs. I have seen posts where portions of the slide release tab that contacts the bullet edge are relieved to allow passage of the bullet on the port side of the magazine as it passes the mag release tab.
@@Ba-pb1ym not click bait. Just a solid reminder to vet your gear as a total package. Reliable gun good reliable ammo also good. That doesn’t mean they are reliable together until you vet them together.
@@TheSuitedShootisthas glock or federal sent you a thank note yet?
Lol, I don't think I'm on their radar
Put a sh*t ton of aftermarket parts in your Glock and all of a sudden its starts malfunctioning???? No way!
Didn't watch the video, did you?
OEM trigger bar
OEM slide stop
OEM magazines
The only non-OEM parts are the trigger shoe, disconnector, backplate, & sights.
If you have an idea as to how any of those could contribute to the slide locking open on a partially full magazine, I'd be very interested to hear it.
Al those parts have been in the pistol for 2 years with no issues in roughly 3,500 rounds of coursework, ~1,500 in matches, not to mention various practices sessions.
@TheSuitedShootist Well, was it correctly functioning prior to all of thar? I rest my case.
@@Mikey-M4v7 it was functioning properly with all the aforementioned modifications.
The only variable that changed was the ammo.
But then again, you'd know all this if you'd actually _watched_ the video
I shoot a m18 3.9in barrel bench rested at 25 yards with 2 different red dots torqued to 15 in-lb and get 12 in groups at 25 yards. I dont know what is wrong with the pistol...
I’ll tell the weirdest thing I’ve ever experienced was on my Glock 19 mos gen 5 was my plunger kept falling out not sure if anyone has ever experienced this weird thing
I’m not sure I’d be down with shooting steel at that close of a range even with that type of ammo. I assume it wasn’t that close all week, but still.
It’s the shape of the syntech projectiles, they are hitting the slide stop. This has been widely reported elsewhere. As you note, test your stuff. This is a not a Glock (or Smith, HK, etc.) problem and your portraying it as such in order to click-bait has diminished your credibility with me.
A few months ago I was in a Green Ops pistol class with a Glock 45 (stock internals). They had us do an exercise where we loaded a round in the chamber, removed the mag from the magwell, and fired two shots. The first shot goes off, and the absence of a magazine makes the slide not lock back, allowing for a second trigger press, which will reveal if you have shot anticipation. My Glock was having lots of stovepipes during this exercise, but only this exercise. Rest of the day, when there was a magazine inserted, everything was fine. The guy in the class next to me said "the same thing happened to me a few months ago with this exact drill! I have 7,000 rounds through my Glock this year, and that exercise was the only time it ever malfunctioned." Still don't know the cause.
Change your recoil spring.
@@DonnyBrook762 Even if you are right (which I don't think you are as it is a new gun), you aren't explaining why this only happens when there is no magazine in the well.
Clearly it's ghosts in the blood
ruclips.net/video/V2RDitgCaD0/видео.htmlfeature=shared
With no mag , no up pressure from the next round
That drill reproduces an extractor function test that Hilton Yam @10-8performance does. The extractor is failing because it doesn't have the magazine spring helpibg to push up the spent round as it extracts it.
i have a canik mc9 and had malfunctions when using 115 winchester with first 200rds. i changed blazer over to nato 124 because it was $8.99 at the the bigA. i am now over 500 rds with no malfunctions even with using a 18rd pro mag. i understand that a nato is pretty much a pus p. and Canik is a made in Turkey. i don't know if thats why or the short barrel of a micro.
Please do a review on the rogers range im hoping to go soon and would like more info / reviews
The crew I went with just recorded an episode for @ThatWeemsGuy podcast that should go live Monday
@TheSuitedShootist ill have to check it out thanks
Federal has been having issues with the "polymer" on these bullets being wildly out of spec with regard to thickness. To the point where guns won't go into battery. Blaming a subcontractor, no doubt.
Don't worry. They'll continue to get worse.
That's the first I've heard of dimensional inconsistencies in the projectile. Good to know.
10:46 Glock issues, almost always mag or ammo...course I leave my Glocks stock or at least glock OEM upgrades.. I also wonder why if you doing some close in shooting, you arent shooting paper at that point....not very safe to me even with those different rounds but hey I am not an instructor nor the person paying for a class..
OEM trigger bar
OEM slide stop
OEM magazines
The only non-OEM parts are the trigger shoe, disconnector, backplate, & sights.
It's all steel because the whole system is reactive targets with limited exposure times.
You can see videos of the Rogers Shooting Test on RUclips.
. I am not reviewing the video again, but I believe an aftermarket "vickers" slide stop, I could be wrong...
Again, I don't like shooting steel that close, you do you and make your decisions.... you had use ammo that is a lil out of the normal type and suffered malfunctions, that can happen...Hope it did not affect your enjoyment/learning in the class but it sounds like it did ... Just making a few comments and Monday morning with some comments...Sorry you feel the need to be defensive as I am adding comments, as you asked...Have a great day
_both_ Vickers & OEM 34 slide stops were used.
As for the trepidation, I'd encourage you to look into the importance of Bill Rogers, his target system, and the significance of his shooting school.
I'm sorry you took my clarification as defensiveness.
Sometimes we all like to not admit the obvious, AMMO... I am sure his class and targets are great but sometimes we try to overtime things, even gunfighting. Clearly the use of specialized ammo was an issue.... I think many trainers try to hard to make their classes unique, gunfights are more about basics than anything, I say that from experience...Take care
rogersshootingschool.com/pages/information
You put a bunch of non stock parts in your gun. This may have something to do with the issues that you experienced. I dont change factory oem parts on my carry guns.
@@alrbredwall another person who didn’t really watch the video. The connections are stock/OEM/factory. Like the trigger bar
@Shieldel key word being "connections" I'm not wrong. There are aftermarket parts on here.
@@alrbredwall the connections are all that matters. The trigger bar is OEM. I’m not gonna argue. This is why I don’t sit here and waste my time in RUclips comments normally.
People online are just flat out hilarious and will spin things however they want to spin them.
Try actually watching the video instead of spinning
OEM trigger bar
OEM slide stop
OEM magazines
The only non-OEM parts are the trigger shoe, disconnector, backplate, & sights.
If you have an idea as to how any of those could contribute to the slide locking open on a partially full magazine, I'd be very interested to hear it.
That brand of ammo is a bullet shape issue. It tends to contact the slide stop and cause the issue. In my glocks the extended slide stops were changed to flat and the problem went away. My offhand palm was bumping it in recoil when speeding up the draw.
Some people would warn you about adding non-OEM parts causing issues because they know what they are talking about. My Gen 3 bone stock G17 that I carry has been running fine since you were in middle school. I qualified with it straight out of the box then carried it for the last 15 or 20 years or so. I find that mag springs need replacing about every two to three years is helpful. If you wait too long, the magazine springs will get weak enough to stop pushing up the last two or three rounds reliably. Other than that, people who customize their glocks tend to see more issues. I have a G43X MOS as my backup and I only shoot it for yearly qualification.
OEM trigger bar
OEM slide stop
OEM magazines
The only non-OEM parts are the trigger shoe, disconnector, backplate, & sights.
If you have an idea as to how any of those could contribute to the slide locking open on a partially full magazine, I'd be very interested to hear it.
If this were the first class running this configuration, I might be more inclined to consider it.
But I've got at least 3500 rounds in training and at least another 1000 in matches on this gun in this exact configuration in the last 2 years without this kind of issue.
It wasn't until the new ammo got introduced that the problem arose.
And it seems this is a fairly common occurrence between Glocks & Syntech.
"Stock guns only" is fine, but it's not the dogmatic necessity some people make it out to be.
Everything done to this pistol was done intentionally, and after much thought.
Not to mention that there are also plenty folks who "know what they're talking about" who tailor their gear to their own preferences.
Despite the issues, I still scored 97/125 on one of the hardest shooting tests in the country.
I can also think of at least half a dozen instructors with more credentials than either of us that run modified/ non-stock gear.
The attempted appeal to authority honestly just detracts from the point you're trying to make.
@@TheSuitedShootist I did not mean to activate you, it was merely an observation. You made a good video about this and it is my first one of your videos I have seen. You shoot a lot, have you tried to test your ammo hypothesis? Recreation of the failure using varied ammo? Also, you posing OEM parts, but from different models is still something that could have an effect. I am not saying Glocks are perfect, but you did say you have changed things in your pistol, and it is no longer reliable.
Other than running a couple hundred rounds of that Syntech during matches prior to the class to check its performance, I didn't have any previous experience with it.
So far no FMJ or JHP has created the same problem.
Oh so you put a bunch of not stock parts on it. That explains the problems
He explains the connections (like trigger bar) are OEM/factory. Someone didn’t really watch the video.
OEM trigger bar
OEM slide stop
OEM magazines
The only non-OEM parts are the trigger shoe, disconnector, backplate, & sights.
If you have an idea as to how any of those could contribute to the slide locking open on a partially full magazine, I'd be very interested to hear it.
@@TheSuitedShootist i have stock gen 3 , 4, 5. Never had a malfunction that wasnt related to ammo
... so you *really* didn't watch the video, huh?
@@bljdeep - Exactly! I have owned Glocks since the early 90's, Gen 1 - Gen 4 with several Glock 9mm, 10mm & 45 and several M&P 9mm & 45's, all are stock except sights and all OEM mags. One Gen 4 G19 completely stopped on me at less than 400 rounds due to poor factory part. All others just do what they are supposed to do, run without malfunctions other than occasional ammo issue.