Definitely a high point in ESO. I've always loved the Tribunal (yes, even Almalexia) and I've waited eighteen years to meet the third and most mysterious member. When I found myself standing beside a living Sotha Sil in that beautiful garden of his memories, I wept actual salt tears. From everything we've heard about Sil, I thought perhaps he might be so cold and detached that you would feel no connection to him; that he would be entirely absorbed by his own work to the point of not caring about man or mer. Instead we learn that the entire Clockwork City, everything he's ever done, has been for the benefit and safety of the whole of Tamriel. He's also kind, courteous and gentle. I could have talked to him for hours
I also felt this way. It was such a conflicting feeling, knowing his fate. It made me loathe Almalexia so much more than I had initially, to be honest.
Saying "Almalexia is such a good storyteller even she can't tell where her fiction begins and reality ends" is a very poetic way of saying "Almalexia is crazy as a bunch of cliff-racers, yo."
It was unfortunate that Almalexia went mad tbh, her role was the one that most closely supported the Dunmer (and their religion). I think it can be said that Almalexia's downfall was Dagoth Ur's true victory.
dodo extinct Vivec was able to understand his mistakes, and was able to learn from them, and seems to regret his past. He is the deepest of the tribunal members in the way he represents the duality of their existence. Like how he is benevolent in stoping a big fucking meteor from destroying his city and saving all the people, but also the opposite. Like how he keeps it there to crash if faith in him disappears. He is a great character and how dare you speak in such a way about lord Vivec.
Woah Sotha Sil really needed this. It gave him the personality Almalexia stole from us when she killed him in Morrowind, before this we only knew of his feats, the deals with the daedra, how he taught the psijic monks and so on. But to hear it from his mouth, his perspective just gave another level of depth to the lore of morrowind and the elder scrolls in consequence.
Also goes to show why he was so silent, and did nothing to stop Almalexia but, smiled at death as she murdered him in TES3: Morrowind. Perhaps, dying, is seeing through the cell and outside of the bars. Perhaps he achieved his second insight in that moment. #UntoldHorrors
It's interesting to find out that they are bound by "portfolios" to use a DnD term, I don't think we know this back in Morrowind, at least not spelled out loud. I wonder who or what bound them and how their particular "spheres" of influence are determined, by their characters? personalities?
I really like the way he talks about reality. He's so close tor realising that his entire existence is fictional, but not yet. He sees the inconsistencies, the "unsteady walls", but he can't go any further. This man truly deserves to be a god.
Nessie Andrew he more of a god then any others he only one who can see something not right and was so close to being freed but died in the end he truly is god of knowledge
Not necessarily he realizes that he is fictional, he just realized the deterministic nature of the world. It was very popular among scientists not too long ago, that laws of physics and the conditions at the starting point of universe, determined everything that happens next, so humans actually don't have any free will and can't make any single choice different than they make. They only have an impression of free will but in fact they are not free to do or decide even the smallest thing.
If you go in depth with the lore, Sotha Sil managed to do more than Vivec and Almalexia even after he died. Not only did he create the Clockwork City, but he also recreated the Heart of Lorkhan--he was working on it when Almalexia entered his realm. In the DLC's main quest, one of the Factotum's mentions that there were defenses against Almalexia. Sotha Sil never expected them to stop her, they were meant to slow her down so that he could finish the heart--and, even while she killed him, he spent his last few moments ensuring that his city and its people will remain. It's tragic, really. If Almalexia didn't go mad, if she had just waited a little longer, she would have had the means to reclaim her divinity right beneath her city.
"He spoke not a word as he died. Not a whisper. Even in death, he mocked me with his silence" This really does put some perspective on why she thought he was laughing at her. Because who wouldnt, knowing that
Thing is he seems really mournful, as though he regrets a lot of what he's done (i.e. the death of Nerevar). If you look at the plaque to Nerevar it's as though his death saddens Sil deeply. That, and you can find an antiquity in the Greymoor DLC of an urn, filled with preserved flowers with a note reading "Forgive Me" (Presumably written by Sil).
@@feaweninglorin6035 Not really, it seems that it was Sotha Sil himself that convinced them to use the tools. Hence why he changed and therefore, feels guilty more than the rest of Almsivi
It is a very different person compared to the Sotha Sil who told Azura that the time of the Daedric Princes has passed and that the Tribunal were the new gods who will protect their people. Perhaps the centuries of godhood has opened his eyes to what Azura meant by saying that the lives of gods are not what mortals think.
Sotha thinks himself unworthy to be a god in Nirn because we didn't took part on its creation... So he created a realm for himself and became a true god.
@@BroadwayRonMexico Daedric Princes could be considered their planes made manifest. Every stone, every blade of grass, every cliff face, every river in the Hunting Grounds, *is* Hircine for example.
In all of elder scrolls, by far. Second probably to the conversation with Dagoth Ur. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't be surprised if it were the same exact writer for both sequences.
@@w415800 The ESO Dominion isn't the Skyrim Dominion. It's got its shitty aspects but by and large they're no worse than any other faction (yes, there's that guy in Shadowfen, but I'm pretty sure they didn't _know_ they were sending a Veiled mad scientist on that mission :P). You do get to meet some high elves who are more in line with the Skyrim incarnation of the Thalmor...as a terrorist group you need to hunt down for the Dominion.
Sotha Sil's voice, along with the Clockwork City's beautiful and depressing music, with this dialogue is just. I sat there almost crying just listening to the dialogue.
No, it was absolutely not. The dwemer chased divinity because they saw themselves equal to the gods, while he acquired divinity out of love for his people. They were also an extremely technocratic society which is also very much the opposite to Sotha sil's motives. He literally sacrificed himself to help his people in the end. The only similar thing between him and the dwemer is the use of technology and the aesthetic
I see Vivec as LSD. He imagines new realities and then CHIMs them into existence. Though he is kinda obsessed with Love, so I can see Ecstasy there too.
Holy shit, I feel so robbed I never got to meet this guy in morrowind, here I was expecting a reclusive, eccentric genius, yet sotha sil is easily the most ground and genuine of the tribunal.
Sotha Sil: "Yes. A poet's despair. Vivec craves radical freedom---the death of all limits and restrictions. He wishes to be all things at all times. Every race, every gender, every hero, both divine and finite---but in the end, he can only be Vivec." Favorite part of the conversation. In other words, Vivec essentially desires to be a 'Player' over a 'Non-Player', because for all the power he has within the universe, he can only be himself, only be one person. More importantly however, he REALIZES this, unlike 99.9% of everyone else in the ES verse. To them, it is real, it is reality, but for Vivec, he can only ever live the story and life he has been written/coded to have. Even far into his future he might meet the Nerevarine, but in the end his story WILL end, no matter what, it is his fate and cannot be escaped. The Nerevarine too is bound by a prophecy, but being a 'Player' said Nerevarine is not truly bound, but also is still. Even if you play the games with mods, unless you completely convert it to something else in the end you'll only BE the Nerevarine. Take Skyrim, again unless you convert it to something else entirely, if you want the end of the game, you have to go beat Alduin, you MUST beat him or else the game simply will not end. Sure you might go about it by....fighting dragons shaped like Thomas the Tank Engine, marrying your anime waifu, throwing out Shouts that sound like fart noises, and so on, but in the end Alduin, the story you have, still ends the same way. But Vivec? He doesn't even have that much choice. He can only in the end live the life he was made to have, and there's nothing he can do about it short of achieving CHIM.
Agreed, but it's worthy of note that Sotha is as devoted to transcendence as Vivec is, and on a much wider scale. Vivec issues guides on CHIM, and on removing the self from the influence of the Wheel. By being himself in defiance of everything, Vivec gains power over that everything, and seeks to guide others (especially that one other) through his Lessons. Sotha, meanwhile, wants to create Everything 2.0. He wants to perfect the flaws in Mundus and through 'giving birth to Memory'; the pattern of Tamriel Final. He wants existence to transcend itself.
Yeah. Sotha Sil puts together everything needed to understand and perfect Nirn, but is unable to take things further. Aware of his future failings he births/rebirths Memory so she can be the pattern for Tamriel Final. Kirkbride has a pretty awesome artpiece of the Tribunal that includes pregnant Sotha. michaelkirkbride.tumblr.com/image/85251665173
@@hoonteri1760 I don't think he's truly gone. He either uploaded himself to the stars, or to the City itself, or he went to the Divine realm after his "death". Regardless, his consciousness is alive somewhere.
@@hoonteri1760It is interesting that when you encounter Aios,on a quest to defeat Sotha Sil's shadow,she mentions Almalexia while analysing threats. Sotha Sil knew that one day, Almalexia will try to kill him and never trusted her.
The second insight of being "The Prisoner": "To gaze through the bars and perceive that which exists beyond causality. Beyond time". I think what Sotha Sil meant by this is the ability to comprehend what is beyond the universe of the elder scrolls. The Elder Scrolls universe exists inside a video game and the only character who is aware of that is you, the player. When you play this game you are a prisoner inside it because you are aware of what is outside. Sotha Sil is aware of the reality of his imprisonment which is the first insight but he can't perceive our universe that is beyond the world of the Elder Scrolls games as he puts it:" I see only unsteady walls".
There is also the fact that every main series Elder Scrolls game after Daggerfall has the main character start their journey as a very literal prisoner.
He also says that Vivec knows he's in a video and just like us, wants to play different characters from various classes and races, but he can only be an NPC.
Wulfhart Ice-Bear I much prefer Vivec. For how ‘cool’ he might seem he is really a cold man, to him his work is the most important thing, he doesn’t care too much about his people, or about anything other than his clockwork. Hell he doesn’t even care about saving Luciana unless you beg him to.
Lawful Trek Sotha Sil cares far more about the Dunmer than Vivec. He bares the ashen skin fully and worked his whole divine existence to keep the Aurbis stable.
Luke Price If we count the ESO lore maybe? He didn’t in Morrowind, in fact he did to begin with but then he became obsessed with his clockwork city which in the original lore, no one was allowed into. Sotha Sil was honestly self absorbed
@@kesshikou Vivec literally holds people hostage with a rock in the sky that he didn't get rid of, and eventually destroys vvardefell because of it, atleast sotha provided a realm that saves lives
This dialogue is so well-written I almost think they brought Kirkbride back. Also, Sotha Sil all but admits that he knows what CHIM is and knows that Vivec has some understanding of it. Absolutely beautiful.
To me, Elder Scrolls has always been Bethesda's favoured child, atleast compared to Fallout, they seem to put much more effort into it than Fallout and other series.
Sotha Sil seems so close to Amaranth - by far the closest of the Tribunal gods - and yet he can't attain it. He's stuck in CHIM and whereas the other two gods are drunk on their power Sotha Sil is not only selfless and compassionate but wishes simply to understand the mysteries of the Aurbis. *God-tier (pun intended) character writing.*
Sotha Sil is the farthest of the 3 from Amaranth he can't even believe in his owns truths. If you want a whole world out of you, you will need to atleast believe the shit you say, instead of blaming it on "fate" and the "rails of reality". I love Sotha Sil, but he lacks agency. Also he is not wrong, he doesn't have agency and his life is indeed dictated by rails, but that is not gonna change if he keeps beliving in that truth!
The people who believe Kirbride's CHIM is somehow deep astound me. No one thinks you're cool, no one thinks "deep lore" about realizing being a character on a hard drive is particularly interesting.
@@reidparker1848 Okay, so you can ignore it and let people who are interested in it talk about it with each other. Shouldn't be too hard, unless your hobby is seeking out things you dont like so you can bother people who do like that thing.
1:43 "Why even call yourself a god?" Sotha Sil: "I don't ;)" Also Sotha Sil (to Azura): "We are the new gods, born of the flesh, and wise and caring of the needs of our people." *gets the entire dunmer race cursed*
To be fair, wasn't that account written by Vivec? Vivec is a known liar. It could very easily just be Vivec lying and throwing Sil under the bus. Honestly I'd say that's more likely.
Sotha Sil, probabliy was the most remourseful about his part in the betrayal of the Nerevar by the tribunal. Probably why he locks himself way and tries to avoid people, keeping himself busy with dwemer technology, artifacts to pass the time for the end he sees coming. Only ocasionally taking action to stop the world from being destroyed. Even at the start where he asks if you like the Brass Fortress he repaired and made and talks about it with pride and happiness in his voice, he reveals that he "thought about destroying it on more than one occasion", probably since he felt that he didnt deserve to feel such feelings because of his betrayal, as he says "unfortunately, its an endevor built apon a latice of corpses. Betrayal. Untold horrors" and tells us he hope you never understand. Its why he sounds so melancholic all the time. He does not actively use his power to gain worshipers. He flatly tells us he doesnt call himself a god, afterall he as he says "I am whatever the people want me to be", because that is the best he can do to atone in a way for his actions. He also considers himslef less than a prisoner in two senses; one as a Prisoner has hope he would be freed one day (he doesnt want that forhimself), and two because the prisoner is you, aka the player, and hes a program in a game lol
Seems like he's the only one of the three that feels remorse about what they did to Nerevar. Vivec and Almalexia are too high on power and godhood to care, and their desire for it led them to betray and murder their friend in cold blood. They all deserved their ultimate fate, and you could also say that the downfall of the Dunmer was their doing - repayment for all the evils they committed.
Vivec also regrets what happened to Nerevar. Sil mentions it in this dialogue. And I think Vivec says it himself (or at least implies it himself) in Morrowind as well.
4:10 I thought this was really cool - this is more or less saying Vivec envies the player. Vivec wants to play an Elder Scrolls game where he can live different lives, but is stuck as one character forever.
Everything he says is a poem. Vivec might fancy himself a poet but Sotha Sil is the true intellectual. ESO did such a great job on Sotha Sil that whenever i am tired of my responsibilities. I come here and watch him. He fulfills his duties so efficiently and humbly. "I am only what time and circumstance made me, son of a lost house, friend to a fallen king". ESO really killed it with this one. So many people are accomplished because they wanted to be special and were born or put in bad circumstances resulting them to work inhumanely hard. It is so well put into words. I feel poet's jealousy. That i did not write these beautiful lines myself. When he describes himself further, he really defines an optimum ruler. That he is kind and cruel both according to needs of people. His people can dream on his expense and blame him for their miseries. He is a vessel, a role-model or an anti-rolemodel. A mirror- nothing more. When people look at him they will see what they themselves are. A good king will see a just god, a bad king will se his cruelty. A murderer will see the that he killed nerevar and so on. Even, i see only things that i am in him. A mirror indeed.
I am rather critical of the writing in ESO on the whole, but this conversation with Sotha Sil has stuck with me for years. He is a very interesting character and really well realised by the script and actor. Every word sounds laced with a mournful regret. It's like he's got 4D depression or something, unable to experience the world in the way he used to due to his godlike powers and vast intellect. That bit he says about envying the ability to doubt makes me think that nothing can surprise him in a good or bad way. A lot of shock and elation comes from doubt that the thing will happen and the resulting emotion, good or bad, is rooted in a kind of surprise when it does happen. Sotha Sil's mechanical ability to analyse could deprive him of that. Maybe he continues his work to safeguard Nirn, not because he personally feels strongly about it and believes in it, but because he thinks his pre-divine incarnation would. His general attitude of seeming regret also makes me want to say that the Tribunal actually did kill Nerevar and that Sotha Sil lives with the weight of that also. That's my two cents anyway. I feel a lot of ESO characters fall short of the mark because they lack an emotional hook to get you invested in the character. The vast majority for me are kind of 'that guy' or 'that gal'. I'm not saying they all have to be chin-strokingly complex on the same level as Sotha Sil, but just have a little more substance than bubbly and happy, shifty, sarcastic and or edgy.
I wonder if younger players understand how mythical and mysterious these characters felt back in TES3? It's almost a privilege being able to see them in person and even have all these dialogues. Meeting Vivec for the first time in Morrowind at the very end of main storyline and exchanging few lines of lore with him was majestic. Like witnessing something legendary. And Sotha Sil was the most mysterious of them all since players never actually had the chance of meeting him...
Has he though ? I believe that when he made the discovery of the profane tools of Kagrenac and their ability to draw divinity from the Heart of Lorkhan and announced it to the other two, Almalexia became mad with greed at the prospect of godhood, and it was only she that murdered Nerevar while he was lying wounded, feverish and in a comatose state, hours or days after the battle. The Ashlander records suggest that the Tribunal used poisoned candles, poisoned cloaks and poisoned daggers in the murder. Poison is primarily a woman's choice of assassination, thus making Almalexia the prime suspect. Plus, she is revealed to be prone to madness anyway. Vivec and Sotha Sil merely embraced the opportunity presented to them afterwards. And, although Azura calls Vivec a murderer in ESO Morrowind's main quest line, he himself denies the murder if asked in The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind. And why would a god lie? On the other hand, in ESO Morrowind Sil calls himself a "friend to a fallen king". Thus, he still considers Nerevar his friend, so he can't have murdered him.
The 36 Lessons of Vivec has two hidden messages. The first is by reading the first letter in each paragraph of the 36th lesson, which reads FOUL MURDER. The second is by finding the words that correspond to the numbers given in the 29th lesson, which reads 'He was not born a god. His destiny did not lead him to this crime. He chose this path of his own free will. He stole the godhood and murdered the Hortator. Vivec wrote this.' So it's pretty clear to me that Vivec was behind the killing. As for why he'd lie? Vivec is the warrior poet. Half of his identity is his ability to manipulate truth and create stories. If you read the 36 Lessons (which were written by him), there are bits that directly contradict not only Tribunal doctrine but also what he'll tell you himself. Vivec lies as easily as he breathes. So given that Ayem and Vehk were almost certainly in on the plot, it doesn't seem that much of a stretch to say Seht was too. At the very least Seht was complicit in the plot; as the most skilled mystic between them he'd be the one to realise the true power of the heart. I doubt Vehk or Ayem could have used the heart without his help. I do believe him when he says he was a 'friend' to Nerevar. There's plenty of evidence that they all, in their own way, truly cared for him. But when it came to a choice between their friend/husband/whatever the hell Nerevar was to Vehk, and (what they saw as) the good of their people, they picked the latter. That's what makes it such a tragedy. (And that, ultimately, is why I prefer this version. It's just a better story. What can I say? I'm a follower of Vivec. The marvellous, glorious, pathologically dishonest trickster that they are.)
Yet in the 36th Sermon, Vivec also names Almalexia the Face-Snaked Queen of the Almsivi. Snakes are, for obvious reasons, associated with poison. And the only other references of snakes in Morrowind are, the constellation of The Serpent in the firmament above Nirn, and the vampiric Tsaesci of Akavir. Perhaps it's just me that views Mother-Morrowind as the bitch of the story, but why would it take THREE people to murder ONE already mortally wounded Hortator? Especially if they weren't already opposed against him? Also, let's not forget that Mehra Milo used to work undercover in the Library of Vivec. Being a Dissident Priest, she may have tampered with the copies of the 36th Sermon that are always authorised by the Temple before getting published, to hide the secret message. I doubt that Vivec would be so pompous as to hide the message himself. He is pompous, yes, but admitting a murder in public, hidden in plain sight? That sounds more like a machination by Mephala, not Vivec.
Oh yeah, Ayem was for sure involved. She could definitely have provided the poison. She was the anticipation of Boethiah, whose sphere is (among other things) assassination and the overthrow of authority. You have no trouble convincing me of Ayem's guilt. I'm just also pretty sure of Seht and Vehk's guilt too ;) As for why it'd take three people, perhaps Nerevar was just that much of a badass. He was the Hortator (read: warlord) after all. I mean, the Nerevarine mantles him and they kill two gods and can kill a third if they feel like it. (By the way, this is completely unrelated, but you can add Lorkhan himself to that list of snake connections via the Redguard creation myth. Lorkhan = Sep = The Hungry Snake.)
I love that Sotha says that he craves for the mortal uncertainty when you say "maybe..." towards him. However, in the end, he himself says "you may be the one that saves us" interesting little tid bit i think. Sotha, however powerful and wise, is forever mortal at his core
I don’t think there was any uncertainty in that statement. Perhaps he already knew of the outcome of our actions. But wanted us, as mortals, to maintain our quality of uncertainty and doubt. Therefore, he dissimulated his true knowledge as to not defy his canon. But yes, perhaps he does have a dose of doubt within himself. Ironically.
@@katydid19 Thinking more about it, i guess it has more to do with the fact that we are the Prisoner rather than Sotha still having some mortal elements in him - which i think he does but still. The thing about being the Prisoner is that we have a destiny but we can "make reality a metaphor" which liberates us from fulfilling our journey. In that sense , i believe Sotha can't know about our actions because possible heroes of prophecy often don't complete them - Nerevar reincarnate many times throughout the eras just to deviate from his destiny until the Nerevarine finally came about. So, i think his final words are truly genuine in the sense we can persue our journey but, in the end, we aren't obligated which makes knowing about our future kinda complicated - the Prisoner ends up being an in-game explanation for the player character.
I absolutely love Sil, i love what je represents, i love the way he thinks and acts, i love his creations and his insight. And i feel theres a certain loneliness in his divinity the other two dont feel. He admires and envys mortals abilities to doubt and be indecisive; it makes me think that sometimes he misses his mortality, even if the thought is but for a moment. When i played the clockwork dlc and met him, i ended up creating a character who was raised and grew up around dwemer machinery and ruins, whose near whole life only knew dwemer. And when she was hired by fyr and met Sil, she saw him almost as a father figure, who aspired to create the great things he did.
Sotha Sil didn't talk about quantum mechanics. The deep layer of what he said comes from his view of the other characters in the elder scrolls universe.
This conversation with Sotha Sil was the only time when i truly felt i was talking to a living God on an Elder Scroll game, he´s just 50 steps ahead of whatever you´re gonna ask him or imagining to ask him, and the pain that comes with absolute knowledge, sadly they dropped the ball with the Seth that appears on Summerset, they are two different characters...
Sotha Sil can see the wall separating the dream from reality but he doesn’t dare pierce it. He has a hunch theres something beyond but he figures that his purpose is to maintain the dream, not ascend beyond it.
Wow, he seems way more…distant then I imagined him. I always imagined him as almost brazen, a leader in the Tribunal, but really he’s a man who is cursed with knowledge, and has lost himself amongst the logic of life
Honestly I love this. I got Morriwind not too long ago and I fell in love with it. For my own personal story, I go with the idea that the tribunal murdered Nerevar. I heard that in that version of events, Sotha Sil was the one who convinced Vivec and Almalexia to betrayal Nerevar. So, I always saw Sotha Sil as this Judas figure, but now this video and others are really starting to make me see him in a new light. Out of the tribunal he had the most heart.
I've always viewed it that everyone of the tribunal betrayed Nerevar for their own individual motivation. Sotha Sil was likely motivated by sheer pragmatic dogma. Why throw away power when you can use it. Vivec I believe was motivated by self hatred and jealousy of Nerevar. This not only shows in his desire to be everything other than Vivec, but also his hooking up with Almalexia. As for Almalexia, she's the absolute worst. She's motivated by sheer narcissism. She spins her lies and her persona because she is utterly drunk on peoples love and adoration for her. Whereas Vivec and Sotha seem to have regret for their actions, Almalexia has non as in her mind she is perfect and can do no wrong.
I think he refers to you as prisoner because, as the player, you can 'see the door to the cell' which I means having knowledge of how the Elder scrolls are video games. He cannot see the door so he tends to the reality that he sees without understanding the greater truth. I might just be wildly misinterpreting though.
You're not too far off, but it's not quite as meta as that. In the Elder Scrolls, the truth of the world is that it's all the dream of a greater figure. Sotha Sil refers to this dream as a prison. He believes the player will be able to see through the dream, AKA "gaze through the bars". Sotha Sil himself claims to not be capable of this insight, so instead he vows to help keep the dream stable, AKA "make sure that the walls are stable, the gaps are sealed, and all who remain stay safe within it".
Seht's voice resembles Oracle's voice from Dota 2 so much, I had to Google to see if they shared the same voice actor. Well, not the same one, for those who cares.
I always loved this sequence, he reminded me of the cursed Great Being from the old Bionicle we serials. "A Great Being, yes... that is what they called me... and my brothers and sisters. Angonce once said that name was the worst thing that ever happened to us, because we started to believe it was accurate. Perhaps he was right ... perhaps that is why I am imprisoned here." "I do not speak to the beings of this world. They never see me, or hear me, and so it is left to their imaginations to conjure what I am like, how I think, and what I believe. The imagination has an infinite capacity to fill in the blanks with what it wants to be there."
By far my favorite in the Tribunal. Clearly though, you can see the limits of his false divinity. Given his wisdom, it makes me wonder how he felt on betraying Nerevar?
Reid Parker except CHIM is completely canon, and there’s multiple references in in-game lore to it and Vivec’s temple of CHIM. It’s obvious that Sil is describing it here and just because you don’t like the canon doesn’t make it not canon. Kirkbride was cool and all but I don’t take his writing as canon, however CHIM has been referenced multiple times in lore. It’s how Tiber Septim shaped the jungles of Cyrodiil into forest, it’s how Vivec was able to directly combat Daedric Princes like Sheogorath. Don’t fight the canon my dude.
Cam yo CHIM is plausibly deniable, in keeping with the Elder Scrolls theme of "multiple interpretations". Vivec is a notorious liar, the power of Lorkhan's Heart can easily explain Vivec's powers, and the White Gold Tower's change of occupants could account for the reshaping of Cyrodil. Needless to say, Anamareth and Godhead written off by being Kirkbride's C0da fanfic. To re-emphasize, I'm am simply saying that CHIM only MIGHT be canon, and at present exists as a pair of references: Vivec (liar) and Mankar Camoran (crazy, and can't even assign Oblivion planes correctly).
Reid Parker maybe the specific term of CHIM is plausibly deniable, but to try to argue that important characters in TES such as Camoran, Vivec, and Tiber Septim achieved self-awareness within the universe they were in is pretty foolish. It’s pretty well established within lore, whether you want to call it “CHIM” or not
Cam yo I am arguing exactly that, and I enjoy your feedback to my interpretations. I think I've covered Vivec (Heart Powers) and Camoran (Dagon rewards him with Paradise). Talos' ascension is due to the Numidium effectively forcing the Hjalti-Wulfhearth-Arctus oversoul aka Talos to be recognized as Lorkhan, thus mantling him. (Numidium boots up, expecting to be powered by Lorkhan. It instead finds some weird super-soul which emits a fair amount of Shezzarite signals (Wulfharth), and thinks "Oh, THIS is actually Lorkhan". Because of Numidium's reality-altering powers, it is so from then on. Talos mantled/replaced/however you want to say "is now" Lorkhan.)
This is why he doesn't achieve chim despite understanding the nature of reality. He sees what he does and must do as neccesary and resigns himself to that role rather than insisting upon being a real individual in the face of "causality." Though, in a universe that takes place inside of a dreaming entity, I would assume that fatalism would be the case rather than causality.
Haven't played ESO but I like that they have him interactable in this. The Tribunal were described as "living" gods so when you find him in Morrowind it gave a feeling as if you had killed an essential npc at some point in the questline even though you hadn't
He mentions something about Clavicus Vile and Mephala waiting to act after Nocturnal. Morrowind expansion covered Vile's part, where Summerset will revolve around Mephala somehow. Cool how they give us some hints about the upcoming DLCs in some way.
Vivec achieved the impossible: to become a waking-dreamer, and to tear the self far beyond the spokes of the wheel. And yet, was it always meant to be like this? Was it determined as fact? His Revelation of CHIM does not save him from the fact that Nerevar's reincarnation must end Dagoth-Ur, that the Oblivion Crisis is ended by the Hero of Kvatch, that Alduin be banished back from whence he came by the Last Dragonborn. With CHIM, one can change the fabric of the story as if it were just that- a story. Cyrodiil was rewritten from swampland to verdant forests and plains. That Vivec was not born in poverty as a slave to prostitution, but always was counselor to the great Nerevar and true incarnate form of Mephala. Vivec even literally writes stories of himself knowing they are both true and untrue, embodying his very nature as a living god able to rewrite the dream he himself is a part of, projecting the version of himself as he sees fit amongst endless rays of light that are refracted through the lens of the people who view him. However, this seeming omniscience does not preclude blind spots. Who are we as the player character? Every race, every sign, every gender. Without limit; transcending the limitations of canonicity by being defined as one of uncountable iterations. Who is Vivec? A slave born in a slum to serve as a prostitute? A warrior-poet god-king? Vivec can lie and muddy the waters of perception as well as literal geography and historic record, but he can't be what we are. That's why Vivec doesn't fight back if you attack him; He knows it. Within you are uncountable synchronicities and logic defying achievements... but it's more than that. He knows that you can't be killed. If you were to die, the entire timeline would cease at that exact moment, and all within suddenly vanish. Depending on when the last time you saved the game is where existence would pick back up.
It is interesting meeting the Tribunal after playing through Morrowind, to know the truth of their power and the depth of their betrayal to the one they were councilors to. And to know that one day the Nerevarine will come to rectify their mistakes.
Vivec wants to break away from the limitations of his reality of being a fictional charachter inside a videogame...he wants to own his narrative. This is meta-narration
Sotha Sil…my favorite out of the tribunal. He's so somber in this conversation and I love that he has a dlc of his own as well as some in Summerset isles. I always play this dlc whenever I make a new toon and just as excited.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
Definitely a high point in ESO. I've always loved the Tribunal (yes, even Almalexia) and I've waited eighteen years to meet the third and most mysterious member. When I found myself standing beside a living Sotha Sil in that beautiful garden of his memories, I wept actual salt tears.
From everything we've heard about Sil, I thought perhaps he might be so cold and detached that you would feel no connection to him; that he would be entirely absorbed by his own work to the point of not caring about man or mer. Instead we learn that the entire Clockwork City, everything he's ever done, has been for the benefit and safety of the whole of Tamriel. He's also kind, courteous and gentle. I could have talked to him for hours
I also felt this way. It was such a conflicting feeling, knowing his fate. It made me loathe Almalexia so much more than I had initially, to be honest.
Tribunal = traitors and murderers
Lol crying for ESO haha
Wait what do you mean “meet him again in Summerset,” is Sil still alive?
Makes you hate Almalexia even more
Saying "Almalexia is such a good storyteller even she can't tell where her fiction begins and reality ends" is a very poetic way of saying "Almalexia is crazy as a bunch of cliff-racers, yo."
She's keeping their religion up an running, that she went slowly crazy surprises no one
@@marcoboscarol2420 Ngl, I was surprised that she went fully nuts at the end of Tribunal.
@@CyberController-
she was jealous because she couldn't achieve chim
Bitches be wildin bruh"
It was unfortunate that Almalexia went mad tbh, her role was the one that most closely supported the Dunmer (and their religion).
I think it can be said that Almalexia's downfall was Dagoth Ur's true victory.
i love that theres just an option to say “goodbye” at any given moment. just imagine, “May i confess something to you?” *“goodbye”*
h a v e y o u h e a r d o f t h e h i g h e l v e s
They would just be like im not a priest boy I don't want your baggage byeeee lol
The way he says "I envy you" is so heavy, so exhausted. It's heartbreaking.
It's even worse if you answer "maybe" when he asks if you understand.
@@n_crowe
_"Maybe._ The word I covet above all others.
Hold to that word, my friend, and _never let go."_
When he asks "Do you understand?", I said "Yes." and he answered "then I pity you."
i finally know what he sounds like after 15 years
Isn’t he the only tribunal that knows his fate
dodo extinct
And a liar.
CHIM is Kirkbrideian nonsense.
dodo extinct Vivec was able to understand his mistakes, and was able to learn from them, and seems to regret his past. He is the deepest of the tribunal members in the way he represents the duality of their existence. Like how he is benevolent in stoping a big fucking meteor from destroying his city and saving all the people, but also the opposite. Like how he keeps it there to crash if faith in him disappears. He is a great character and how dare you speak in such a way about lord Vivec.
You actually don't.
@@reidparker1848 The Entire elder scrolls series is based on Kirkbridian nonsense and that's why people love it. Including CHIM.
Woah Sotha Sil really needed this. It gave him the personality Almalexia stole from us when she killed him in Morrowind, before this we only knew of his feats, the deals with the daedra, how he taught the psijic monks and so on. But to hear it from his mouth, his perspective just gave another level of depth to the lore of morrowind and the elder scrolls in consequence.
Also goes to show why he was so silent, and did nothing to stop Almalexia but, smiled at death as she murdered him in TES3: Morrowind.
Perhaps, dying, is seeing through the cell and outside of the bars. Perhaps he achieved his second insight in that moment.
#UntoldHorrors
@@worldpieceofmind2965 u rite lord nerevar
It's interesting to find out that they are bound by "portfolios" to use a DnD term, I don't think we know this back in Morrowind, at least not spelled out loud. I wonder who or what bound them and how their particular "spheres" of influence are determined, by their characters? personalities?
@@w415800 the scriptwriters at bethesda. He recognises he's stuck in a game, though he does not know he's inside one.
Michael Kirkbride wasn't with the team for Tribunal's development, that's why Almalexia and Sotha Sil were written rather "meh".
I really like the way he talks about reality. He's so close tor realising that his entire existence is fictional, but not yet. He sees the inconsistencies, the "unsteady walls", but he can't go any further.
This man truly deserves to be a god.
Nessie Andrew he more of a god then any others he only one who can see something not right and was so close to being freed but died in the end
he truly is god of knowledge
Nessie Andrew
Keep Kirkbride's self-indulgent bullshit out of TES. Just play the games and enjoy the lore that doesn't read like a bad acid trip.
Not necessarily he realizes that he is fictional, he just realized the deterministic nature of the world. It was very popular among scientists not too long ago, that laws of physics and the conditions at the starting point of universe, determined everything that happens next, so humans actually don't have any free will and can't make any single choice different than they make. They only have an impression of free will but in fact they are not free to do or decide even the smallest thing.
@@reidparker1848 Kirkbride's work is brilliant.
Michael Zittritsch
Kirkbride is our JK Rowling. A nutter.
I met a god once and he is depressive
CaptainDashund truth is often depressing because it is bereft of your fantasies that you drape upon it.
If you go in depth with the lore, Sotha Sil managed to do more than Vivec and Almalexia even after he died. Not only did he create the Clockwork City, but he also recreated the Heart of Lorkhan--he was working on it when Almalexia entered his realm. In the DLC's main quest, one of the Factotum's mentions that there were defenses against Almalexia. Sotha Sil never expected them to stop her, they were meant to slow her down so that he could finish the heart--and, even while she killed him, he spent his last few moments ensuring that his city and its people will remain.
It's tragic, really. If Almalexia didn't go mad, if she had just waited a little longer, she would have had the means to reclaim her divinity right beneath her city.
"He spoke not a word as he died. Not a whisper. Even in death, he mocked me with his silence" This really does put some perspective on why she thought he was laughing at her. Because who wouldnt, knowing that
Almalexia did not go mad
She was always a HOO!
Thing is he seems really mournful, as though he regrets a lot of what he's done (i.e. the death of Nerevar). If you look at the plaque to Nerevar it's as though his death saddens Sil deeply. That, and you can find an antiquity in the Greymoor DLC of an urn, filled with preserved flowers with a note reading "Forgive Me" (Presumably written by Sil).
Oooo where is this lead?
@@bluelight2681 if i'm not mistaken. it's found in clockwork. it's a purple treasure you can sell. i kept mine. :)
i think almelexia tricked all of the tribunal. Sotha sil was wanting to best for his people
@@feaweninglorin6035 Not really, it seems that it was Sotha Sil himself that convinced them to use the tools. Hence why he changed and therefore, feels guilty more than the rest of Almsivi
It is a very different person compared to the Sotha Sil who told Azura that the time of the Daedric Princes has passed and that the Tribunal were the new gods who will protect their people. Perhaps the centuries of godhood has opened his eyes to what Azura meant by saying that the lives of gods are not what mortals think.
Sotha thinks himself unworthy to be a god in Nirn because we didn't took part on its creation... So he created a realm for himself and became a true god.
I doubt he views it that way, considering he is both an elf and a former follower of the daedra.
@@wikipediaintellectual7088 The Daedra created their own planes though
@@BroadwayRonMexico Daedric Princes could be considered their planes made manifest. Every stone, every blade of grass, every cliff face, every river in the Hunting Grounds, *is* Hircine for example.
2:24 Sotha Sil looks at the Steam notification.
He glimpses briefly beyond the bars.
lmao
@Joseph Ellis that'd make for a funny encounter(like one out of every 80 times, sotha looks down at it and briefly vanishes)
haha, right as he's about to talk about the boundaries between fact and fiction, great timing
All fun and games until he starts spitting out your entire steam library like Psycho Mantis did with our memory cards😂
He sounds and looks nice.
kinda sexy
#no homo
he is indeed gorgeous
He's definitely the nicest of the three, and really of all the divine or semi-divine entities you run into in ESO.
One of the best moments and conversations in ESO.
In all of elder scrolls, by far. Second probably to the conversation with Dagoth Ur. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't be surprised if it were the same exact writer for both sequences.
Without a doubt mate, without a doubt.
This makes me want to play the game, unfortunately I hated the Dominion, and I suffer to see them thrive and prosper, and unable to kill them all.
@@w415800 The ESO Dominion isn't the Skyrim Dominion. It's got its shitty aspects but by and large they're no worse than any other faction (yes, there's that guy in Shadowfen, but I'm pretty sure they didn't _know_ they were sending a Veiled mad scientist on that mission :P). You do get to meet some high elves who are more in line with the Skyrim incarnation of the Thalmor...as a terrorist group you need to hunt down for the Dominion.
He is beautiful; physically, mentally, and spiritually. One of my favorite figures in lore has finally been given the personification he deserves.
I only checked out eso this year and i loved how they portrayed sotha sil
Sotha Sil's voice, along with the Clockwork City's beautiful and depressing music, with this dialogue is just. I sat there almost crying just listening to the dialogue.
Same, apart from the 'almost'.
I actually think it's why I don't like it that much...it's almost too depressing of an environment haha...
We waited 18 years to talk to him there's no shame in it
"Sotha sil might have been born chimer, yet his heart was always Dwemer"
No, it was absolutely not. The dwemer chased divinity because they saw themselves equal to the gods, while he acquired divinity out of love for his people. They were also an extremely technocratic society which is also very much the opposite to Sotha sil's motives. He literally sacrificed himself to help his people in the end.
The only similar thing between him and the dwemer is the use of technology and the aesthetic
That lends a lot credit to the Dwemer.
@@trashcant69 are you talking about Memory from c0da?
Technically those were two the same races, and the only that differed them was culture, ideology and religion
@@Rottensparrow
Nah. Dwemer had different colored skin.
honestly, my favorite conversation in ESO. It was so good. I love Sotha Sil so much.
Me too
''Why do you call me Prisoner?''
''YOU N'WAH!''
''...oh,i remember now.''
Tribunal as drugs:
Almalexia: Meth
Vivec: Ecstasy
Soths Sil: Weed
I see Vivec as LSD. He imagines new realities and then CHIMs them into existence.
Though he is kinda obsessed with Love, so I can see Ecstasy there too.
Smoke Sil every day?
maybe that's why Sotha SIl is the best
I'm okay with the Ecstasy metaphor due to certain *Muatra* affairs that hover around Vivec.
Sotha Sil: Adderall
Vivec: LSD
Almalexia: Meth
Holy shit, I feel so robbed I never got to meet this guy in morrowind, here I was expecting a reclusive, eccentric genius, yet sotha sil is easily the most ground and genuine of the tribunal.
Sotha Sil: "Yes. A poet's despair. Vivec craves radical freedom---the death of all limits and restrictions. He wishes to be all things at all times. Every race, every gender, every hero, both divine and finite---but in the end, he can only be Vivec."
Favorite part of the conversation. In other words, Vivec essentially desires to be a 'Player' over a 'Non-Player', because for all the power he has within the universe, he can only be himself, only be one person. More importantly however, he REALIZES this, unlike 99.9% of everyone else in the ES verse. To them, it is real, it is reality, but for Vivec, he can only ever live the story and life he has been written/coded to have. Even far into his future he might meet the Nerevarine, but in the end his story WILL end, no matter what, it is his fate and cannot be escaped. The Nerevarine too is bound by a prophecy, but being a 'Player' said Nerevarine is not truly bound, but also is still. Even if you play the games with mods, unless you completely convert it to something else in the end you'll only BE the Nerevarine.
Take Skyrim, again unless you convert it to something else entirely, if you want the end of the game, you have to go beat Alduin, you MUST beat him or else the game simply will not end. Sure you might go about it by....fighting dragons shaped like Thomas the Tank Engine, marrying your anime waifu, throwing out Shouts that sound like fart noises, and so on, but in the end Alduin, the story you have, still ends the same way.
But Vivec? He doesn't even have that much choice. He can only in the end live the life he was made to have, and there's nothing he can do about it short of achieving CHIM.
TheNN well he did achieve CHIM
Agreed, but it's worthy of note that Sotha is as devoted to transcendence as Vivec is, and on a much wider scale. Vivec issues guides on CHIM, and on removing the self from the influence of the Wheel. By being himself in defiance of everything, Vivec gains power over that everything, and seeks to guide others (especially that one other) through his Lessons. Sotha, meanwhile, wants to create Everything 2.0. He wants to perfect the flaws in Mundus and through 'giving birth to Memory'; the pattern of Tamriel Final. He wants existence to transcend itself.
"Giving birth to Memory"?
you mean, the "Memory"? from C0DA?
Yeah. Sotha Sil puts together everything needed to understand and perfect Nirn, but is unable to take things further. Aware of his future failings he births/rebirths Memory so she can be the pattern for Tamriel Final. Kirkbride has a pretty awesome artpiece of the Tribunal that includes pregnant Sotha. michaelkirkbride.tumblr.com/image/85251665173
damn...
Sotha Sil is the best...
Not anymore... Almalexia murdered him
Hofda and the nerevarine gave him justice
But didnt azura say he abandoned his mortality through mean outside of the heart of lorkhan
@@hoonteri1760
I don't think he's truly gone.
He either uploaded himself to the stars, or to the City itself, or he went to the Divine realm after his "death". Regardless, his consciousness is alive somewhere.
@@hoonteri1760It is interesting that when you encounter Aios,on a quest to defeat Sotha Sil's shadow,she mentions Almalexia while analysing threats. Sotha Sil knew that one day, Almalexia will try to kill him and never trusted her.
The second insight of being "The Prisoner": "To gaze through the bars and perceive that which exists beyond causality. Beyond time".
I think what Sotha Sil meant by this is the ability to comprehend what is beyond the universe of the elder scrolls. The Elder Scrolls universe exists inside a video game and the only character who is aware of that is you, the player. When you play this game you are a prisoner inside it because you are aware of what is outside. Sotha Sil is aware of the reality of his imprisonment which is the first insight but he can't perceive our universe that is beyond the world of the Elder Scrolls games as he puts it:" I see only unsteady walls".
There is also the fact that every main series Elder Scrolls game after Daggerfall has the main character start their journey as a very literal prisoner.
Chim? never met her, though I know of her through a friend..
_Plot twist:_ The "unsteady walls" are the game-breaking bugs.
Sadly, Sotha Sil failed at protecting us from them.
He also says that Vivec knows he's in a video and just like us, wants to play different characters from various classes and races, but he can only be an NPC.
@@Ebsalom Arena also started in a jail
Sotha Sil is a complete badass, my favorite tribunal god by far.
Wulfhart Ice-Bear I much prefer Vivec. For how ‘cool’ he might seem he is really a cold man, to him his work is the most important thing, he doesn’t care too much about his people, or about anything other than his clockwork. Hell he doesn’t even care about saving Luciana unless you beg him to.
Lawful Trek Sotha Sil cares far more about the Dunmer than Vivec. He bares the ashen skin fully and worked his whole divine existence to keep the Aurbis stable.
Luke Price If we count the ESO lore maybe? He didn’t in Morrowind, in fact he did to begin with but then he became obsessed with his clockwork city which in the original lore, no one was allowed into.
Sotha Sil was honestly self absorbed
"Tribunal false god by far"
Next time get it right
@@kesshikou Vivec literally holds people hostage with a rock in the sky that he didn't get rid of, and eventually destroys vvardefell because of it, atleast sotha provided a realm that saves lives
After replaying Morrowind it was heartbreaking to see his body broken and dead with Almalexia next to it. I suppose he knew his fate from the start.
This dialogue is so well-written I almost think they brought Kirkbride back.
Also, Sotha Sil all but admits that he knows what CHIM is and knows that Vivec has some understanding of it. Absolutely beautiful.
To me, Elder Scrolls has always been Bethesda's favoured child, atleast compared to Fallout, they seem to put much more effort into it than Fallout and other series.
@@dq7860 I guess it's because Fallout was not made by Bethesda while with tes Howard experiment a lot before Morrowind
They actually did!
Sermon 37 was written directly by Kirkbride himself and even includes a hidden link to C0DA.
Sotha Sil seems so close to Amaranth - by far the closest of the Tribunal gods - and yet he can't attain it. He's stuck in CHIM and whereas the other two gods are drunk on their power Sotha Sil is not only selfless and compassionate but wishes simply to understand the mysteries of the Aurbis.
*God-tier (pun intended) character writing.*
Vivec has CHIM , Sil has Clockwork City, Almalexia have tits .
Sotha Sil is the farthest of the 3 from Amaranth he can't even believe in his owns truths. If you want a whole world out of you, you will need to atleast believe the shit you say, instead of blaming it on "fate" and the "rails of reality". I love Sotha Sil, but he lacks agency. Also he is not wrong, he doesn't have agency and his life is indeed dictated by rails, but that is not gonna change if he keeps beliving in that truth!
The people who believe Kirbride's CHIM is somehow deep astound me. No one thinks you're cool, no one thinks "deep lore" about realizing being a character on a hard drive is particularly interesting.
@@reidparker1848 Okay, so you can ignore it and let people who are interested in it talk about it with each other. Shouldn't be too hard, unless your hobby is seeking out things you dont like so you can bother people who do like that thing.
1:43
"Why even call yourself a god?"
Sotha Sil: "I don't ;)"
Also Sotha Sil (to Azura): "We are the new gods, born of the flesh, and wise and caring of the needs of our people."
*gets the entire dunmer race cursed*
sotha just hates azura, wouldnt be surprised if he said that only to make her mad rather than believing it !
@@gymnodinium9 Indeed; his anger may have *blinded* him, too.
Well I mean he's had a couple thousand years to reconsider his position.
People change, even incredibly powerful people.
To be fair, wasn't that account written by Vivec? Vivec is a known liar. It could very easily just be Vivec lying and throwing Sil under the bus. Honestly I'd say that's more likely.
I'll never forgive Almalexia for doing what she did to Sotha Sil. Heartbreaking
Sotha Sil, probabliy was the most remourseful about his part in the betrayal of the Nerevar by the tribunal. Probably why he locks himself way and tries to avoid people, keeping himself busy with dwemer technology, artifacts to pass the time for the end he sees coming. Only ocasionally taking action to stop the world from being destroyed.
Even at the start where he asks if you like the Brass Fortress he repaired and made and talks about it with pride and happiness in his voice, he reveals that he "thought about destroying it on more than one occasion", probably since he felt that he didnt deserve to feel such feelings because of his betrayal, as he says "unfortunately, its an endevor built apon a latice of corpses. Betrayal. Untold horrors" and tells us he hope you never understand. Its why he sounds so melancholic all the time.
He does not actively use his power to gain worshipers. He flatly tells us he doesnt call himself a god, afterall he as he says "I am whatever the people want me to be", because that is the best he can do to atone in a way for his actions.
He also considers himslef less than a prisoner in two senses; one as a Prisoner has hope he would be freed one day (he doesnt want that forhimself), and two because the prisoner is you, aka the player, and hes a program in a game lol
Sotha Sil is daddy af honestly.
i agree
Hell yes
Wait until you meet Big Daddy😉
For real! 😍
seht more like sexy as fuck
“ I am only what time and circumstances made me,”
“ you’re perfect “
I want Bethesda to make a series of audio books or videos where I can listen to this guy’s voice read out the lore of the elder scrolls series
Seems like he's the only one of the three that feels remorse about what they did to Nerevar. Vivec and Almalexia are too high on power and godhood to care, and their desire for it led them to betray and murder their friend in cold blood. They all deserved their ultimate fate, and you could also say that the downfall of the Dunmer was their doing - repayment for all the evils they committed.
Vivec also regrets what happened to Nerevar. Sil mentions it in this dialogue. And I think Vivec says it himself (or at least implies it himself) in Morrowind as well.
4:10 I thought this was really cool - this is more or less saying Vivec envies the player.
Vivec wants to play an Elder Scrolls game where he can live different lives, but is stuck as one character forever.
Everything he says is a poem. Vivec might fancy himself a poet but Sotha Sil is the true intellectual.
ESO did such a great job on Sotha Sil that whenever i am tired of my responsibilities. I come here and watch him. He fulfills his duties so efficiently and humbly.
"I am only what time and circumstance made me, son of a lost house, friend to a fallen king". ESO really killed it with this one. So many people are accomplished because they wanted to be special and were born or put in bad circumstances resulting them to work inhumanely hard. It is so well put into words. I feel poet's jealousy. That i did not write these beautiful lines myself.
When he describes himself further, he really defines an optimum ruler. That he is kind and cruel both according to needs of people. His people can dream on his expense and blame him for their miseries. He is a vessel, a role-model or an anti-rolemodel.
A mirror- nothing more. When people look at him they will see what they themselves are. A good king will see a just god, a bad king will se his cruelty. A murderer will see the that he killed nerevar and so on. Even, i see only things that i am in him. A mirror indeed.
Always wanted to see this guy since TESIII Morrowind.
My favorite character in all of Elder Scrolls lore, just from this one conversation.
I am rather critical of the writing in ESO on the whole, but this conversation with Sotha Sil has stuck with me for years. He is a very interesting character and really well realised by the script and actor. Every word sounds laced with a mournful regret. It's like he's got 4D depression or something, unable to experience the world in the way he used to due to his godlike powers and vast intellect. That bit he says about envying the ability to doubt makes me think that nothing can surprise him in a good or bad way. A lot of shock and elation comes from doubt that the thing will happen and the resulting emotion, good or bad, is rooted in a kind of surprise when it does happen. Sotha Sil's mechanical ability to analyse could deprive him of that. Maybe he continues his work to safeguard Nirn, not because he personally feels strongly about it and believes in it, but because he thinks his pre-divine incarnation would. His general attitude of seeming regret also makes me want to say that the Tribunal actually did kill Nerevar and that Sotha Sil lives with the weight of that also.
That's my two cents anyway. I feel a lot of ESO characters fall short of the mark because they lack an emotional hook to get you invested in the character. The vast majority for me are kind of 'that guy' or 'that gal'. I'm not saying they all have to be chin-strokingly complex on the same level as Sotha Sil, but just have a little more substance than bubbly and happy, shifty, sarcastic and or edgy.
God-tier writing. Hope we meet Sotha Sil again someday in ESO
The Part where he describes CHIM and the Part with the Prisoner… just perfect.
He didn’t describe CHIM
@@tperfectorganism4520 Then you are blessed because you dont understand.
@@benvolkmann9678 I do. He was describing amaranth. Vivec already achieved CHIM. He described CHIM with the whole “fact from fiction” thing
CHIM/Amaraneth/Ay-Altadoon Daedroth/whatever isn't deep, you silly Redditors. Get lives.
@@reidparker1848 It has been one year, calm down xD
I wonder if younger players understand how mythical and mysterious these characters felt back in TES3? It's almost a privilege being able to see them in person and even have all these dialogues. Meeting Vivec for the first time in Morrowind at the very end of main storyline and exchanging few lines of lore with him was majestic. Like witnessing something legendary. And Sotha Sil was the most mysterious of them all since players never actually had the chance of meeting him...
This one dialogue moment with Sotha Sil made him my favorite lore character in the Elder Scrolls. They really did him justice in this expansion.
I feel like part of the reason for his deterministic philosophy is to avoid responsibility for having killed Nerevar. Just sayin'.
Becca Miles Also what's interesting is that he has a very Anuic philosophy in contrast to usual dunmer Padomaic worship.
Has he though ? I believe that when he made the discovery of the profane tools of Kagrenac and their ability to draw divinity from the Heart of Lorkhan and announced it to the other two, Almalexia became mad with greed at the prospect of godhood, and it was only she that murdered Nerevar while he was lying wounded, feverish and in a comatose state, hours or days after the battle. The Ashlander records suggest that the Tribunal used poisoned candles, poisoned cloaks and poisoned daggers in the murder. Poison is primarily a woman's choice of assassination, thus making Almalexia the prime suspect. Plus, she is revealed to be prone to madness anyway. Vivec and Sotha Sil merely embraced the opportunity presented to them afterwards. And, although Azura calls Vivec a murderer in ESO Morrowind's main quest line, he himself denies the murder if asked in The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind. And why would a god lie? On the other hand, in ESO Morrowind Sil calls himself a "friend to a fallen king". Thus, he still considers Nerevar his friend, so he can't have murdered him.
The 36 Lessons of Vivec has two hidden messages. The first is by reading the first letter in each paragraph of the 36th lesson, which reads FOUL MURDER. The second is by finding the words that correspond to the numbers given in the 29th lesson, which reads 'He was not born a god. His destiny did not lead him to this crime. He chose this path of his own free will. He stole the godhood and murdered the Hortator. Vivec wrote this.'
So it's pretty clear to me that Vivec was behind the killing. As for why he'd lie? Vivec is the warrior poet. Half of his identity is his ability to manipulate truth and create stories. If you read the 36 Lessons (which were written by him), there are bits that directly contradict not only Tribunal doctrine but also what he'll tell you himself. Vivec lies as easily as he breathes.
So given that Ayem and Vehk were almost certainly in on the plot, it doesn't seem that much of a stretch to say Seht was too. At the very least Seht was complicit in the plot; as the most skilled mystic between them he'd be the one to realise the true power of the heart. I doubt Vehk or Ayem could have used the heart without his help.
I do believe him when he says he was a 'friend' to Nerevar. There's plenty of evidence that they all, in their own way, truly cared for him. But when it came to a choice between their friend/husband/whatever the hell Nerevar was to Vehk, and (what they saw as) the good of their people, they picked the latter. That's what makes it such a tragedy.
(And that, ultimately, is why I prefer this version. It's just a better story. What can I say? I'm a follower of Vivec. The marvellous, glorious, pathologically dishonest trickster that they are.)
Yet in the 36th Sermon, Vivec also names Almalexia the Face-Snaked Queen of the Almsivi. Snakes are, for obvious reasons, associated with poison. And the only other references of snakes in Morrowind are, the constellation of The Serpent in the firmament above Nirn, and the vampiric Tsaesci of Akavir. Perhaps it's just me that views Mother-Morrowind as the bitch of the story, but why would it take THREE people to murder ONE already mortally wounded Hortator? Especially if they weren't already opposed against him? Also, let's not forget that Mehra Milo used to work undercover in the Library of Vivec. Being a Dissident Priest, she may have tampered with the copies of the 36th Sermon that are always authorised by the Temple before getting published, to hide the secret message. I doubt that Vivec would be so pompous as to hide the message himself. He is pompous, yes, but admitting a murder in public, hidden in plain sight? That sounds more like a machination by Mephala, not Vivec.
Oh yeah, Ayem was for sure involved. She could definitely have provided the poison. She was the anticipation of Boethiah, whose sphere is (among other things) assassination and the overthrow of authority. You have no trouble convincing me of Ayem's guilt. I'm just also pretty sure of Seht and Vehk's guilt too ;)
As for why it'd take three people, perhaps Nerevar was just that much of a badass. He was the Hortator (read: warlord) after all. I mean, the Nerevarine mantles him and they kill two gods and can kill a third if they feel like it.
(By the way, this is completely unrelated, but you can add Lorkhan himself to that list of snake connections via the Redguard creation myth. Lorkhan = Sep = The Hungry Snake.)
This is easily the best part of ESO, from a writing and character perspective.
i love the prisoner conversation it feels like when you talk to an ai about its existence
Vivec is my brother. He knows my struggles and i know his ... 😥
Amalexia runninga around chanting the Doors' song the end while planning to get rid of her bros
I love that Sotha says that he craves for the mortal uncertainty when you say "maybe..." towards him. However, in the end, he himself says "you may be the one that saves us" interesting little tid bit i think. Sotha, however powerful and wise, is forever mortal at his core
I don’t think there was any uncertainty in that statement. Perhaps he already knew of the outcome of our actions. But wanted us, as mortals, to maintain our quality of uncertainty and doubt. Therefore, he dissimulated his true knowledge as to not defy his canon. But yes, perhaps he does have a dose of doubt within himself. Ironically.
@@katydid19 Thinking more about it, i guess it has more to do with the fact that we are the Prisoner rather than Sotha still having some mortal elements in him - which i think he does but still. The thing about being the Prisoner is that we have a destiny but we can "make reality a metaphor" which liberates us from fulfilling our journey. In that sense , i believe Sotha can't know about our actions because possible heroes of prophecy often don't complete them - Nerevar reincarnate many times throughout the eras just to deviate from his destiny until the Nerevarine finally came about. So, i think his final words are truly genuine in the sense we can persue our journey but, in the end, we aren't obligated which makes knowing about our future kinda complicated - the Prisoner ends up being an in-game explanation for the player character.
I absolutely love Sil, i love what je represents, i love the way he thinks and acts, i love his creations and his insight. And i feel theres a certain loneliness in his divinity the other two dont feel. He admires and envys mortals abilities to doubt and be indecisive; it makes me think that sometimes he misses his mortality, even if the thought is but for a moment.
When i played the clockwork dlc and met him, i ended up creating a character who was raised and grew up around dwemer machinery and ruins, whose near whole life only knew dwemer. And when she was hired by fyr and met Sil, she saw him almost as a father figure, who aspired to create the great things he did.
And I thought Dagoth Ur was sexy
But Sotha Sil is wholesome.
I mean he do be kinda hot doe
Pretty sure Dagoth Ur said "Come to me through fire and war" not sex ;)
dang.... that was deep
all that crying about determinism? it's like he never even heard of the quantum mechanics
Sotha Sil didn't talk about quantum mechanics. The deep layer of what he said comes from his view of the other characters in the elder scrolls universe.
Atulack
Keep Kirkbride's self-indulgent bullshit out of TES. Just play the games and enjoy the lore that doesn't read like a bad acid trip.
@@reidparker1848
Kirkbride is by far the best part of Elder Scrolls lore and only plebs disagree with this.
I love the way he speaks. This dialogue is so well-written.
"It will not end well..." Oof, I felt that.
This conversation with Sotha Sil was the only time when i truly felt i was talking to a living God on an Elder Scroll game, he´s just 50 steps ahead of whatever you´re gonna ask him or imagining to ask him, and the pain that comes with absolute knowledge, sadly they dropped the ball with the Seth that appears on Summerset, they are two different characters...
Sotha sil is when you play Minecraft on creative mode.
Seems like Vehk isn't the only one who knows a thing or two about CHIM
ⰎⰋⰕⰜⰑⰓⰡⰁ225
Keep Kirkbride's self-indulgent bullshit out of TES. Just play the games and enjoy the lore that doesn't read like a bad acid trip.
@@reidparker1848 that's what kirkbride is all about tho. there is no canon, fun is true and boring is false.
@@reidparker1848 cry harder :)
Centorea 88
😭
Sotha Sil can see the wall separating the dream from reality but he doesn’t dare pierce it. He has a hunch theres something beyond but he figures that his purpose is to maintain the dream, not ascend beyond it.
The lore in the Elder Scrolls is excellent; it would be a shame to see the series crumble...
He can use my Wraithguard any time he wants
muatra lol
Vivec and almalexia are playing god, this is a real god. Truely wise and truely a poet.
Wow, he seems way more…distant then I imagined him. I always imagined him as almost brazen, a leader in the Tribunal, but really he’s a man who is cursed with knowledge, and has lost himself amongst the logic of life
I always liked Sotha Sil best, now I can give another reason as to why.
Damn, Sotha Sil sounds like the most reasonable dude from their triumvirate. No wonder Almalexia killed him, he was too sensible for her craziness.
"I thought about destroying it on more than one occasion, I'm glad I didn't...." :') best convo in eso questing
Honestly I love this. I got Morriwind not too long ago and I fell in love with it. For my own personal story, I go with the idea that the tribunal murdered Nerevar. I heard that in that version of events, Sotha Sil was the one who convinced Vivec and Almalexia to betrayal Nerevar. So, I always saw Sotha Sil as this Judas figure, but now this video and others are really starting to make me see him in a new light. Out of the tribunal he had the most heart.
I've always viewed it that everyone of the tribunal betrayed Nerevar for their own individual motivation. Sotha Sil was likely motivated by sheer pragmatic dogma. Why throw away power when you can use it. Vivec I believe was motivated by self hatred and jealousy of Nerevar. This not only shows in his desire to be everything other than Vivec, but also his hooking up with Almalexia. As for Almalexia, she's the absolute worst. She's motivated by sheer narcissism. She spins her lies and her persona because she is utterly drunk on peoples love and adoration for her. Whereas Vivec and Sotha seem to have regret for their actions, Almalexia has non as in her mind she is perfect and can do no wrong.
"Friend to a fallen King..."
MOTHUHFUKUH u KILLED that King!!!
I think he refers to you as prisoner because, as the player, you can 'see the door to the cell' which I means having knowledge of how the Elder scrolls are video games. He cannot see the door so he tends to the reality that he sees without understanding the greater truth. I might just be wildly misinterpreting though.
You're not too far off, but it's not quite as meta as that. In the Elder Scrolls, the truth of the world is that it's all the dream of a greater figure. Sotha Sil refers to this dream as a prison. He believes the player will be able to see through the dream, AKA "gaze through the bars". Sotha Sil himself claims to not be capable of this insight, so instead he vows to help keep the dream stable, AKA "make sure that the walls are stable, the gaps are sealed, and all who remain stay safe within it".
Doesn't this all explain why since Morrowind to Skyrim the main heroes were always prisoners?
The dreams of anu and padomay?
DrOrtopus Even Anu and Padhome are just aspects of the dreaming "Godhead"
barble
Keep Kirkbride's self-indulgent bullshit out of TES. Just play the games and enjoy the lore that doesn't read like a bad acid trip.
I think people underestimate what bro is saying. It’s literally is so philosophical, it gave me an existential crisis.
I've never played ESO but Sotha Sil's voice actor sounds amazing.
One of the best moments in the entire TES franchise.
Really wish you could chat with him in Morrowind.
This was really well done
I'm sure you could. He just wouldn't respond.
Seht's voice resembles Oracle's voice from Dota 2 so much, I had to Google to see if they shared the same voice actor.
Well, not the same one, for those who cares.
with the prisoner dialog it seems Sotha Sil tried to achive CHIM but fell short
Sounds like he made the realisation necessary but decided to respond to it differently ie. create his own plane.
I always loved this sequence, he reminded me of the cursed Great Being from the old Bionicle we serials.
"A Great Being, yes... that is what they called me... and my brothers and sisters. Angonce once said that name was the worst thing that ever happened to us, because we started to believe it was accurate. Perhaps he was right ... perhaps that is why I am imprisoned here."
"I do not speak to the beings of this world. They never see me, or hear me, and so it is left to their imaginations to conjure what I am like, how I think, and what I believe. The imagination has an infinite capacity to fill in the blanks with what it wants to be there."
I did not expect to see a Bionicle quote in an Elder Scrolls video.
@@prismanic24 Bionicle lives rent-free in my brain.
Is it weird I now have a crush on sotha sil? Lol
yes
Brendalee Letendre we are not here to judge
no, not at all
No I have exactly the same feeling...
By far my favorite in the Tribunal. Clearly though, you can see the limits of his false divinity. Given his wisdom, it makes me wonder how he felt on betraying Nerevar?
The most wholesome dialogue in the game.
This helps me think clearly
Now that you've asked your questions, can you wait for a bit? He's in the middle of some calibrations.
Sotha Sil is the best.
Towards the end he is literally describing how to achieve CHIM. Holy shit.
Cam yo
Keep Kirkbride's self-indulgent bullshit out of TES. Just play the games and enjoy the lore that doesn't read like a bad acid trip.
Reid Parker except CHIM is completely canon, and there’s multiple references in in-game lore to it and Vivec’s temple of CHIM. It’s obvious that Sil is describing it here and just because you don’t like the canon doesn’t make it not canon. Kirkbride was cool and all but I don’t take his writing as canon, however CHIM has been referenced multiple times in lore. It’s how Tiber Septim shaped the jungles of Cyrodiil into forest, it’s how Vivec was able to directly combat Daedric Princes like Sheogorath. Don’t fight the canon my dude.
Cam yo
CHIM is plausibly deniable, in keeping with the Elder Scrolls theme of "multiple interpretations". Vivec is a notorious liar, the power of Lorkhan's Heart can easily explain Vivec's powers, and the White Gold Tower's change of occupants could account for the reshaping of Cyrodil. Needless to say, Anamareth and Godhead written off by being Kirkbride's C0da fanfic.
To re-emphasize, I'm am simply saying that CHIM only MIGHT be canon, and at present exists as a pair of references: Vivec (liar) and Mankar Camoran (crazy, and can't even assign Oblivion planes correctly).
Reid Parker maybe the specific term of CHIM is plausibly deniable, but to try to argue that important characters in TES such as Camoran, Vivec, and Tiber Septim achieved self-awareness within the universe they were in is pretty foolish. It’s pretty well established within lore, whether you want to call it “CHIM” or not
Cam yo
I am arguing exactly that, and I enjoy your feedback to my interpretations. I think I've covered Vivec (Heart Powers) and Camoran (Dagon rewards him with Paradise). Talos' ascension is due to the Numidium effectively forcing the Hjalti-Wulfhearth-Arctus oversoul aka Talos to be recognized as Lorkhan, thus mantling him. (Numidium boots up, expecting to be powered by Lorkhan. It instead finds some weird super-soul which emits a fair amount of Shezzarite signals (Wulfharth), and thinks "Oh, THIS is actually Lorkhan". Because of Numidium's reality-altering powers, it is so from then on. Talos mantled/replaced/however you want to say "is now" Lorkhan.)
This is why he doesn't achieve chim despite understanding the nature of reality. He sees what he does and must do as neccesary and resigns himself to that role rather than insisting upon being a real individual in the face of "causality."
Though, in a universe that takes place inside of a dreaming entity, I would assume that fatalism would be the case rather than causality.
Ever since I learned him through researching Dwemer, I've always been dreaming his appearance in life. This turn out to be even better.
He's talking, HE'S TALKING!!!
Haven't played ESO but I like that they have him interactable in this. The Tribunal were described as "living" gods so when you find him in Morrowind it gave a feeling as if you had killed an essential npc at some point in the questline even though you hadn't
He mentions something about Clavicus Vile and Mephala waiting to act after Nocturnal. Morrowind expansion covered Vile's part, where Summerset will revolve around Mephala somehow. Cool how they give us some hints about the upcoming DLCs in some way.
Is it true?
@@infinitedeathloop5517 summer set is nocturnal
You actually deal with all three
Vivec achieved the impossible: to become a waking-dreamer, and to tear the self far beyond the spokes of the wheel. And yet, was it always meant to be like this? Was it determined as fact? His Revelation of CHIM does not save him from the fact that Nerevar's reincarnation must end Dagoth-Ur, that the Oblivion Crisis is ended by the Hero of Kvatch, that Alduin be banished back from whence he came by the Last Dragonborn. With CHIM, one can change the fabric of the story as if it were just that- a story. Cyrodiil was rewritten from swampland to verdant forests and plains. That Vivec was not born in poverty as a slave to prostitution, but always was counselor to the great Nerevar and true incarnate form of Mephala. Vivec even literally writes stories of himself knowing they are both true and untrue, embodying his very nature as a living god able to rewrite the dream he himself is a part of, projecting the version of himself as he sees fit amongst endless rays of light that are refracted through the lens of the people who view him.
However, this seeming omniscience does not preclude blind spots. Who are we as the player character? Every race, every sign, every gender. Without limit; transcending the limitations of canonicity by being defined as one of uncountable iterations. Who is Vivec? A slave born in a slum to serve as a prostitute? A warrior-poet god-king? Vivec can lie and muddy the waters of perception as well as literal geography and historic record, but he can't be what we are. That's why Vivec doesn't fight back if you attack him; He knows it. Within you are uncountable synchronicities and logic defying achievements... but it's more than that. He knows that you can't be killed. If you were to die, the entire timeline would cease at that exact moment, and all within suddenly vanish. Depending on when the last time you saved the game is where existence would pick back up.
We are The Prisoner. We see the cage for what it is because we are not bound by the confines of the narrativity.
It is interesting meeting the Tribunal after playing through Morrowind, to know the truth of their power and the depth of their betrayal to the one they were councilors to. And to know that one day the Nerevarine will come to rectify their mistakes.
I never played clockwork city
I met him in summerset during psijic quest , such a hyped monent
Vivec wants to break away from the limitations of his reality of being a fictional charachter inside a videogame...he wants to own his narrative. This is meta-narration
Sotha Sil…my favorite out of the tribunal. He's so somber in this conversation and I love that he has a dlc of his own as well as some in Summerset isles.
I always play this dlc whenever I make a new toon and just as excited.
he is very much aware of his statue as an NPC, there is no way this guy did not achieve chim. or at least some form of self awareness
Honestly this is probably why every hero in the elder scrolls series has been a prisoner
3:20
Oh sotha sil 😢
Side note: bes comment section threads iv ever read and this is an eso video not a morrowind video!
When I answered yes to his question he said “then I pity you”
When a god like being expresses sympathy it hits harder than one would expect
I love this character, I'm glad we could see him in his prime
I'm just gonna go out on a limb here and assume that the trio of gods were probably sheogorath's greatest victory in the elder scrolls franchise.
damn man, cant believe Sotha Sil ended up badly in the end :(
4:15 Vivec is just like me, whenever I play The Elder Scrolls games.
He sounds exactly how I imagined he would