The only problem with mathematics is that is presented to us from young age in a wrong way, usually by the wrong people who ended up as teachers sort of unwillingly. They immediately give you the wrong image of mathematics, to you it becomes something completely abstract, a bunch of meaningless numbers. I was always bad and uninterested until I started investigating it myself. Learned a lot and still try to learn something new every day. It is the best exercise for the brain, it's always been and it's still unparalleled today. If only they could find a way to make kids interested in it and remain interested forever. That's the x we're looking for here.
I honestly think that it's about the current state of the teachers, rather than being interested in it. Those who are really good at math and love the numbers and calculations, end up on universities and go get well paid jobs. Those who are not good at teaching it/ do not understand it as well as those with the better jobs, end up being the teachers. Education and Healthcare are the most important things in the human life, and yet we value it less and less ( both teachers' and doctors' reputation are getting worse). If people understood how important theese things are, and we then invested more in having better doctors and teachers, then we would be on a road to having a brighter future.
But mathematics *is* something completely abstract. And it has no innate meaning beyond abstractions. That is not a weakness of mathematics, but it's biggest strength as it can express things that we have no direct experience of - and there is a fair chance that a novel scientific theory that operates far from our experiences can fall back on some piece of mathematics developed decades or even centuries ago that describes systems like the one proposed in the theory. Asking for mathematics to be less abstract is asking it to stop being mathematics.
Simon Gunkel i think you misunderstood "abstract". if it's abstract it doesn't mean it can't be presented in such a way that it's clear, understandable and, if possible, interesting. this text we're writing is abstract as well, but whoever taught you to write it probably found an intuitive way to teach you (it is easier with letters and words obviously). a good teacher should be able to provide the same to you, only in mathematics. besides, it doesn't really need to be that abstract, some people have trouble understanding something that is abstract, so it's crucial to connect mathematics to real life somehow. this is what most teacher don't even bother to do, especially with kids. and if you want to make someone interested in mathematics, it's best to start at young age. fail to teach a kid, and you failed completely. well, at least that's how it happened to me and many of my peers.
MyRealName But "it's crucial to connect mathematics to real life somehow" is precisely what I mean. The main body of mathematics does not have such a connection. And the bits that have are usually connected to real life through science, which is separate from mathematics. I do understand that some people struggle with abstraction, especially when it is as pure as it gets in mathematics. But in that case I don't think maths can be made to accommodate them. In the end real mathematics is build on manipulating abstract symbols using abstract rules. And if you stray from this you are sacrificing what makes mathematics mathematics.
Simon Gunkel real life doesn't equal physical life. by "real life" i mean something that is "real" to our mind, imaginable in any way and there are many ways to get to the point when your mind "clicks". do you see what i mean? by "real" i mean understandable to human. a huge pile of nonsense which a task usually looks like isn't understandable, unless it's presented in the right way. basically, we must present mathematics in such a way that it's possible for someone to connect the dots and actually completely understand it. it is all about bringing it closer to someone, it's about how you explain it. without that, you can only wait until you're old enough to understand it yourself without anyone explaining it to you..
You can’t expect the majority of students to become good at math or any “logical” subject when they have been programmed there entire time in school to do it for the sake of getting a good grade, not learning it. In a short amount of time, students must cover large amounts of material and they know enough where they can write an exam and then forget about it because it wasn’t learned and more importantly understood.
Everyone is complaining about school system, but what you people don't understand is that in this fast moving world (especially 21 century) people gotta learn to think act fast. And you can't do that if you are taught one specific topic for over a week. Tutors try to make you trained to quickly comprehend a lot stuff in short amount of time since primary school. Otherwise you will be late. I understand that there are a lot of people who simply can't keep up (i personally am one of those people which is why i am deep in pile of turd these days), but there are those who do. And schools operate taking them into account saying sth like these kids can the rest will do fine as well. And in the end we get one Elon Musk among 1000 Logan Pauls. That's the way of the world. trend has been established long ago and it will never be changed. So just keep up or take a sh*t overboard.
I'm learning my math again after 15 years off school and that's just it. It's taught to you so you can pass the exams, it's not taught to you because you need to understand it. And it's true, that's the paradigm that most fall into. After the exams, the things the learned are never visited again.
Yeah humans are creatures of meaning, you need to make maths deeper as well as more complex. I haven’t seen a mathematician look at mathematics so importantly though - perhaps in India and other ancient lands (where I’m from)
Counter argument: Math professors are bad at teaching it and making it interesting. On youtube I found and learnt a lot of cool stuff about math. But high school math? god I was bad and it bored me to no end.
A fair argument. But that might have more to do with _your_ intent than any absolute result a teacher might hope to (re)produce. That is to say, perhaps you could only really learn about mathematics when you developed a personal interest/desire in a topic therein of particular use to you. To most people, mathematics is a subject about as far removed from their desires in their professional and personal lives as you can get. However, when people realize the situational usefulness of certain branches of mathematics in practically every field, they'll feel a genuine draw to learn it and thus see it's usefulness in their own lives, and not be forced to imagine that possibility in some theoretical scenario.
MikhailBakunin look, I agree, but the only conclusion I can come to us that our mathematical skills depend partially on our interest and partially on who teaches us. rapsody230 mentioned clearly that he liked math when he learnt it from RUclips, so it would be wrong to say he doesn't like math. I think it is fair to say that not everyone make the topic interesting. In fact, very few people can.
Math is often taught in abstract ways and not in an applied way. You can also be "wrong" in math, art can be subjective and entertaining. People seem to excel in math once it becomes practical to them.
The only art in which you can't be wrong is modern art and modern Pop/HipHop. And that's why the world is going to shit. People think there are things they can't be wrong in and don't care for the stuff you can be wrong in.
Many, just as I, see the the beauty of Math as it's perfection and exactness, so I don't think it is subjective, neither a form of art. It does work in art, but it as a tool. Still, Math is awesome!
Pratyush Desai Simple. The ideas that 8 x 1 and 1 x 8 are the same. In third grade I called bullocks (in my mind) on this concept. The value (8) is the same but those are two very different propositions. That is, 8 x 1 are eight unique instances occurring once each and 1 x 8 is one occurrence repeating eight times. Right or wrong, that's how I saw it as a kid. But the teacher said, "no, they're the same." Really? How? They're very, very different in my mind. But I had to accept the "abstract value of 8." Dumb, I concluded. And these two are telling me math is logical? That was the start of my strained relationship with math.
second degree equations. I only truly understood the use of bhaskara in my last months at school. I spent over 4 years solving equations and still not understanding what I was doing
Our education system doesn’t explain the importance of logic, mathematics , and science to students. I sometimes think that it is more important to do that than to teach the subjects themselves.
absolutely. As students we are not told why we are doing things, only how. It's ironic that the way in which we teach math today is illogical. If students have a clear understanding of it's importance in life ('thinking outside the box'/problem solving as well as everyday applications) they will learn much better. The question is not why are people not good at math, it is how can we teach it BETTER!
I think that this statement is an excuse. People dislike math, because it required TIME and especially PERSISTENCE to learn it when the math problems are hard and people don't get the right solution in the first effort. Unlike history or languages, which require only TIME, because it's just reading and memorizing facts or words.
I don't think so, after you put the time in learning math you then are able to solve certain problems without having to remember how to. Instead Most other mnemonic classes you have to constantly remember them and repeat them and if you do not repeat them the time you put on it will be completely useless after a little while.
I should've been more specific! Basic math isn't a issue; I was an inventory specialist for almost twelve years. I meant types of math like calculus and trigonometry. I interpreted what NDT said one way and you another way!
+Saad Hasib Agreed. They talked the whole time about people being bad at math logic, but completely forgot about plenty of people who're good at math and logic. Partiality. (Don't get me wrong, I love the works of Tyson and Dawkins. But that doesn't mean I don't disagree with this video. I'm not partial)
I completely agree! I don't think anybody's actually proud of being "bad" at math. Most people just openly admit it because it's something others can relate to. And as with other things that are a source of shame, they tend to laugh it off, and Dawkins misinterprets this as pride. I've had problems with math at school for years, and I laugh about it, even though I've only recently managed to (at least somewhat) overcome the negative feelings towards the subject and myself that came with the problems in school. I find it a shame, because math is a really interesting subject, but school ruins it for so many people.
I tried to get into teacher training in math, but the interviewers rejected me because I actually conveyed how much I GAVE A CRAP about helping kids learn. Said what I would do is hold classes where i'd use a projector and the software Mathematica to inspire their minds and get them to think in a more creative and 3D way. Schools don't want people who can "teach" and inspire, they want people who can help kids to pass exams - that's all. What's wrong with doing BOTH? When I was at University, I used the trick of tabular integration to answer homework, but it was marked wrong, as that was not the "method" being taught. Richard Feynman didn't care how his students got the correct answer, as long as the method was logical and constructive.
TcO FroooZeN I've spent time gaining experience in both state and private schools for experience before my application was rejected, and noticed that pupils in private schools are pushed harder, given more homework and as a result longer holidays. They have the best equipment to do whatever, and greater opportunities because of the reputation of their school. I can't really comment on fun per se, but whatever the school, I think the system is probably 5/10, because ( and here I mean specifically maths) technology is underutilised when it could benefit and accelerate learning so much.
A trick like tabular integration doesn't constitute a proper mathematical answer. Tricks are tricks, and cannot substitute a legitimate argument. You should know that if you have any intention of teaching mathematics, so this is a little worrisome. Secondly, these interviewers spend all day sifting through applicants who have romantic views of inspiring students. How can you be sure that your idea of exposing students to Mathematica would "inspire their minds" and get them to think in a more "creative and 3D way"? (Whatever that means). As an interviewer for a position like that, you really need to make sure the applicant can deliver information efficiently and clearly; "inspirational" is a given. Why else would you apply?
anasrahman do I smell a teacher? And what's your definition of a "proper" mathematical answer? Tabular integration is just a faster way to arrange the steps of ibp. Would you have given Feynman a zero mark for writing the answer to every question down without any workings? ( which is exactly what he used to do in an exam)? I have no more intention of becoming a teacher. Read my original post again. I mentioned how - in my experience (I.e. not speaking for everyone) - I had that desire crushed out of me. P.s. would you use integration by parts if you had a TON of Fourier Series to do for a part of more complicated partial differential equations ?
They taught us the simple and digestible solution to a math problem after that suddenly we need to apply it in a much complicated problem using the same method that taugh us. That why some say math is hard because they wanted people to be one step ahead. Like riding a bicycle on a train wheel the first time but the second time u ride it they remove the train wheel.
@@poporikishin4922 Exactly. That's why people can't even begin to apply math in anything. A baby won't be able to use a word the right way just because it memorized how to say it. Even super computers and A.I. need to be taught how to apply cues and methods before they start growing by themselves.
@@geradosolusyon511 true we need a math teacher that give time for people to learn. not all people are fast learner some are slow learner but better at the end game than fast learner. I remember when i was in first year IT student there is one teacher who give us the problem to programming only to give us the method of solution after we fail and how to create. making this teacher useless as this teacher on whole semester that all it do. I can grab a module and learn it better since this teacher is like a module but worse like this teacher teach not to help the student to learn but to earn money. That what we do we study the module before the teacher comes to gave us one problem we already learned it on ourselves or we fail then that when it give us the solution.
Yes, many in my experience aren't "people persons." That's fine. When I encountered Math teachers who acted like they'd rather be elsewhere, I would try to rely on the textbook. The problem there was, so many of these books are so poorly edited that they would tend to gloss over certain steps and offered little help. Sure, the chapter would begin with clear instruction, but then it would skim over point C and my sense of the operation would collapse from there.
Well, I quite like math teachers. Math classes are always my favourite alongside with IT classes. Or at least I think they're better than Social Studies....
Let me put it this way - it's not that people are illogical, it's that the subject is taught to us in a illogical way. You can't see logic in any part of the world or things, if you do not know where something starts, what is your end goal and why. Teachers don't tell you why you are doing something, or let you come to the conclusion why doing this and that makes sense. They just put you on a track and make you follow it. 90% of the time you are just working with numbers and formulas that are random to you, because no one is telling you how, when and what for they are used. You simply can't see the logic in this way, it's impossible. They don't give you a set of tools to solve your problems, they give you the already combined solutions and make you work with them, just by switching the numbers and values around. For me, math becomes natural and logical when I have a problem to solve, and I have to find a way to do it. Actual problems that need solving when I'm programming. This is because I know the end result I need, and I fully understand it. Then it is just a matter of time to get the right tools.
yes! I went through years of math tuition in school - none of which tried to even begin to tell me what this stuff was used for. Essentially, wrote learning. I was desperate to find out how I could actually use this stuff... Years after leaving school (decades, in fact) it finally clicked and I found my own uses for everything I'd had force-fed into my brain. Thank God for personal computers and God damn bad math teachers.
This is debatable. It's better to just learn the language through learning the rules and repetition first. You must be fluid in the language before you apply it to physics and real world concepts or else you will have a lot trouble. Trust me you cant just throw someone in an engineering course and teach them algebra and physical concepts at the same time. The way you solve math and physics problems are not the same. Take it from me, I'm a third year engineering student.
nanotech2080 yes! This is why it's important to teach a a whole and make it applicable. If not, your just learning the steps and not understanding the reason behind it.
It wasn't until I hit High School that I started realizing this weird phenomenon with some teachers. It had to do with math, it seemed when someone raised a very good question about not understanding a concept, at least the teachers I came across including college would always answer with, we'll get back to that and they never did. So I started kind of watching teachers and realized that most were just reading instructions as they went along. This happened a lot with the younger teachers, the older ones wouldn't put up with my shit and kick me out of the classroom.
"We'll get back to that..." Yep, heard that one before. And although they would simply recite from the book, the books were so lousy, that they would gloss over many of the operational steps - and so would the teacher. Once, I had an Algebra teacher who was clearly getting annoyed with my lack of understanding and told me, "Look, I'm really an Econ teacher and I'm just filling in for someone on sabbatical. If you need me to go above and beyond the presented material, you should look for another class."
Logic and mathematical thinking are mostly abstract. Practical thinking is what has kept people alive for the majority of human existence. It's not so much logical vs illogical, it's abstract vs pragmatic.
Whenever I learn a new mathematical concept, I always first find out what the motivation for it is. That way it becomes pragmatic & I understand what it's trying to achieve
Also, very often what mathematics is "about" (the kinds of ideas it concerns) can be divided into two broad categories: 1. rules and calculation and 2. pictures, collections, space, and continuous "flows" and connections. Professional mathematicians respect both these aspects of mathematics, but they tend to have to greater esteem for the second. And this isn't surprising, because although the human brain doesn't have natural calculating ability, it does have natural spatial understanding. And so in a very important sense, people are actually hardwired to do very complex mathematics. People fail to recognize their natural aptitude and bemoan their perceived math incompetence because schools only emphasize the first aspect of mathematics and rarely and insufficiently the second.
Pretty cool though. I am not practical, and im not good at maths. Im creative to some degree, but not in any noteworthy shape or form. Im not good at sports, nor video games for that matters. I dont really have any special talents either. The biomechanics ofy body could never make me a powerlifter, and the shape of my muscles/genetics cant make me a bodybuidler. Ive always felt that some people get the looks, some get the brain, some are good at sports, and some are very creative( musics and arts ) it seems to be compansated in some way or shape. I just never became good at anything. I dont even have the will to push myself to become half decent at something. On top of all this, im pretty lazy...However. I am happy :) I think
As a preteen kid, i often ask'd my teachers and parents why i needed to know the tables of multiplications, fractures etc. And i wouldn't get a straight answer from them. They would all answer in a similar way like; 'you just need to' and 'it comes in handy when your older'. This only lead to new questions that annoyed the teachers even more. I think that if someone explained to me that with math, i could figure out the with of the earth like the people of Ancient Greece, help to figure out how to get a satellite in orbit or even something as simple as calculate the angle of a skateboard ramp to make an awesome jump i would have bin much more interested. Elementary teachers are often boring as hell and don't stimulate the natural curiosity in children when they are presented with the wonderful universe around them. Teachers need to get into the mind of little kids and wrap math up in a wonderful dream evoking package that will spark their interest in science for the following decades. Sad that they usually prefer lecturing boring repetitions without explaining why.
Well I can give you a good reason. wothout those xtremely low level mathematics you will be gullible and really easy to manipulate. With mathematics you gain not only a new tool to understand the world and make it fold under what you want, ( hell engineering is completely based on that ) and it also makes you far less subceptible to being manipulated.
+Borja Fernández López i know this now 😉 but my point was that teachers and parents didn't make me enthusiastic about math. on a side note, i think Fair based a arguments aren't the best in getting kids to like math. when you tell a kid he needs it because otherwise he will be easily manipulated. kids need dreams and wonder. somehow a lot of parents and teachers can do this with other classes like geography and with music lessons but not with math.
That's a lie, it just makes it easier. You can learn math entirely on your own. How do you think people discovered it in the first place? The stupidity here...
I had a similar experience in college. But you know what. I think it was just an excuse to make myself feel better about being so lazy and useless. But thats me.
this is so so true. i believe that teachers are to mostly to blame here; they dont make maths enjoyable. i learned more maths form websites like m4ths, khan academy , exams solutions, hegarty maths etc than i have during my time in school.
I was terrible at maths and I hated being terrible becasue I wanted to be good, plus I had a family of mathematicians so it was doubly worse. However, I'm convinced that it was 80% the WAY I was taught rather than my own ability. I'm a kinesthetic learner so pages and pages of textbooks were just useless to me, but a practical application where what was being done could be properly visualised made it all click together. At the moment I believe that there are four types of learning methods - text, kinesthetic (practical), visual (shapes and pictures) and aural (speech/sound), yet only half of that (text and aural)is being using in schools and Universities, so it's no wonder that people are being left behind.
Honestly, all of these are applied from time to time by different teachers, the one used least often being the practical kinesthetic style. And most teachers will only use the two you mentioned concentrating mainly on text. The truth is that we need all of these to get a complete grasp of a particular subject, or it won't mean much to us and we'll forget what we've learned.
Grade 12 I failed math , took summer school and had an amazing teacher and passed with 94%. A lot of it had to do with the fact I was going over everything again with actually understanding it the second time. I was so lost and stuck during the school year, but a teacher can really make a difference. I don't love math, but I can understand it. I can't do equations and calculations in my head but I can on paper, and with a calculator, but I understand what I'm doing.
That has been debunked. All people benefit equally well from all methods of teaching and what works best in all cases is trying to incorporate as many different interpetations of the same information as possible. So no, you’re not actually a kinethetic learner. Sorry.
@@morgangreen2601 I didn't. It doesn't mean getting creative with how the material is presented didn't help him, I said he's not a kinesthetic learner. Because nobody is.
I was a wiz...at Arithmetic. Once I got to Trigonometry, for the very first time in my life in *any* class, I had no idea what was going on. It's the abstraction, not the lack of logic, that confounds people about Mathematics. Once I can figure out the *why* of something, I can almost always figure out the *how.* I was never able to do that with higher Math.
What I find really funny about this is that if you were to sit in any upper level math class, you would find that the entire class is focused on the why. Practically everything encountered dieing primary and secondary education is "this is how it works. Remember it and be able to do what I just did." Actual mathematicians spend all of their time on "Why does this thing work?" and "Can I get an idea of what's going on here so I might be able to explain why this happens?"
in my country i passed basic maths and advanced maths "barely"... but i passed nonetheless, i just didnt care since i claimed that i dont need them in life (other than 1+1=2 etc. very basic things but with bigger numbers sometimes)... and even to this day i dont need most of those advanced stuff i was taught. However... once i applied to a university (next step after business school which is after elementary) i took part in the selection tests... i had no fking clue how to do those calculations. The learning curve was real, so i never got to a university nor did i even bother learning those maths. I remember one part was like: a car is going Y speed and has X amount of time to slow before a crash, how long of a road does the car need to be able to stop. No clue where to even start doing those kinds of calculations... either the presentation was completely different from what ive been taught or i just dont know. (i never had those kind of assignments in books of earlier schools... it was all numbers, no real life scenarios)
This seems mainly an issue of how things are taught. I know physics is just math tied to very specific understood concepts, yet I've seen people immediately try to turn the situation into an equation, then ignore the original situation the question was about when getting the answer. And they end up with a result that if you just look at the original situation you're just like "that can not be anywhere near true" but people seem to think that abstracting it is the way to go, when you could often remain very close to the original situation for most of the calculations.
Summed it up nicely. This was what I was expecting Neil or Richard to say. We can become stuck in a rut of tirelessly wondering why something works and not have the means to figure it out, so we become exhausted and accept memorizing formulas and algorithms to solve things. Funnily enough, some people might be better at math if they just don't question the why it works and concentrate fully on the how it works. It is extremely frustrating that the 'why it works' might only become clear after many years of application and study. This turns most people off early on.
I learn faster when I can visualize things and concepts but they don't teach it that way...they just throw a bunch of well versed , eloquent pretty words to sound knowledgeble...I've noticed this trend where the faculty will confuse the student if they cannot convince them which is just pitiful..just think of the untapped potential of all those students who can learn physics but cannot due to these kind of tutors...humanity can progress forward at an exponential rate if we could just make a small and simple step of teaching differently...just my thoughts!
*The question is... Is math related to science?* Edit, 3 years and 200+ replies later: To all the smartasses replying: this is a meme, not a serious question. Neil deGrasse Tyson was asked this same question by Katy Perry in 2017.
Math is the language in which many scientific theories are stated and reasoned about. That math does this very well is the subject of a 1960 readable essay by Eugene Wigner. The branch of math called statistics is also the language used to analyse scientific data. But deductive logic is not much used in science. It is also poorly taught, almost entirely in philosophy departments. Mechanics and special relativity can be derived deductively from some axioms, but nobody teaches those subjects in that way. There are no successful attempts to derive general relativity or QED as deductive theories.
I'm definitely not proud of being bad at mathematics. My IT teacher at college found it odd that I was good at coding but bad at mathematics, she felt the two didn't go together. Notice, I said she thought I was good at coding. I was good at coding compared to others on the course, but actually good at coding in general that's another matter.
Dude. Same. My math teacher found it odd that I was good at solving rubiks cubes within a few minutes of holding one. Or quickly put together or take apart puzzles/brain-teasers that seemed to confuse my math teachers and other fellow students; like those crazy 3d shape puzzles that are interconnected. They seemed to be blown away. As if I was doing magic. I didn't even need to think. I just saw the pattern or answers infront of me. But then I'd be stuck in 4th grade math skill level with a two tudors and a side math class for "Special Ed." Yeah... I was "mentally" considered "retarded" because I didn't "get" common math or complex math. But I could kick ass at puzzles, and I was outstanding in my writing and art classes. Even my music classes. But no matter how much I cried and screamed and prayed and tried and tried and tried at doing my math problems; it was like it just hit a wall in my mind and ricocheted. I could stare at a math problem for hours and it might as well have been in another language. Because I just didn't get it. But the same would happen when I tried to read really bad poems in class. I'd be like "yeah, I'm not gonna sit here and pretend that I understand what "Beyond the trees, a mask of green, light gleamed, rivers screamed, animals become forgotten." is supposed to mean." Some parts of school were stupid. (Btw, the poem is about machines destroying environments and animals.)
Can' relate to that but I am great at breaking down and analyzing written information. Then summarizing it, but when it comes to actual math problems. I am a hot mess. I am also good at science and I am very creative. But doesn't seem to help much with math.
HOw about you guys come to our schools, and tell our teachers how they should be teaching math because our school systems suck ass. In the past 5 years, I've had only ONE good Math teacher. And even in that class there has been no hands on learning. Never were we taught how to derive Integrals, how to derive differentiation, how we DERIVE the pythagorean theorem. Never. It's just *here's the formula. plug it in*
Maths is a wonderful subject, especially the applied mathematics in Physics. It made high school Physics very easy to understand because I was better at deriving than memorizing. I would say you can definitely explore the online courses on mathematics and science, such as in Coursera and Khan Academy. Take the easy course with no prerequisites and then move to higher level. Also do participate in discussion forums in such courses, if possible. You'll learn a lot in this way. Good luck and have fun learning :-)
Whenever I've done math in class, I ask a bunch of questions, "why do we this", "what's the point of that", "why are we doing this instead of that". At first I thought I was just dumb not getting it, but now I realize that it's because we're thought how but never why, and why everything is connected.
exactly, they never teach us why we do what we have to do, we just have to follow a pattern of steps to get to the answer that we have no idea how we got to because we just rely on methods that work and we don't know why because they dont teach us
Ever since primary school I've always been the bottom of my class in maths while being the top of the class in many other subjects. My mind just goes blank when presented with a maths question, I can do basic maths but after that I just can't do it, I'm not proud of it, I can't count the amount of times I cried before or after a maths test. It's still affecting me now that I'm in college. Many teachers simply gave up on teaching me the more complicated maths and just left me with the simple stuff. I've tried and tried and tried but no matter what it just won't stick, so please don't tell me I'm proud of the fact that I can't do maths when in fact it is the exact opposite.
Math would be easier if teachers gave you all the formulas on the first day. Math in America is taught to trick. Everyone I know that does well in math had tutors
Yes and no. It's about understanding the formulas rather than using them like a piece of code in object-oriented programming. Abhishek Malik, you think life is about going your own way? Too many of us limit ourselves by limiting our perspectives and not asking the right questions.
That's proof that everyone has it in them. It's no coincidence that every student that tries hard magically does well in school. Some people are naturally gifted, but there is no reason you can't be great at maths or physics.
+Sunny Patel People bad at maths just lacks the interest in it. 99% of people that say maths or science is hard haven't even got anywhere near the hard part at all.
Sunny Patel That's true. But school level of maths don't really need that much of interest to be good at anyway... A lot of people just lacks the curiosity and willingness to figure out the whys, which is key to learning all maths and science.
School textbooks be like: "Timmy wants to flip a coin 5 times. Show that both sequences 1,0,0,1,0 and 1,1,1,1,1 are equally probable." College textbooks be like: "Let's start with the showcase of the underlying paradoxical structure of this theory, demonstrating that probabilities both exist and don't exist in a deterministic universe, and in this refreshed spirit of nihilistic despair let's descend into a 56 page measure mania where we split a sphere into two spheres that both have the volume of the original sphere. Also in the end this course consists mostly of integrating fucked up functions. "
Basically he was about to say that a person always goes for the worst possible explanation- the one that seems most threatening, because if you do just think it's wind and it's not, you're in trouble, but if you think there is a threat and there's not, well nothing happened and not much energy was expended. Dawkins has mentioned this multiple times in regards to religion and how the possibility of God and eternal punishment is very much like a lion in the bushes that might just be wind.
yes, the most prudent thing to do then is to be overly cautious. but there's certainly a balancing act - a sense of risk management, built into our biology and fine-tuned by evolution. otherwise we'd wouldn't move because we'd be constantly fabricating potential hypotheticals of what could kill us if we did move. therefore it's not about going for the worst possible explanation, but it does indeed lean heavily onto cautiousness.
It also depends on who is teaching, not the person who is being taught. Imagine a boring teacher that only give theory and equations, but won't show you the wonders that you can do with it.
I know a bunch of students who find math quite easy compared to many other subjects, but they're from a European private school with 8 ppl in their class
Osiris Rex but maths is a more complexed subject. So teaching maths and history are different categories. You can just read a history book and understand it but maths problems requires someone that is trained in maths to help you do it and it takes a lot of time . They are two different things.
@@bosschickchina3281 saying you can learn history by reading a book is not exactly true, some people can see a math problem and solve it instantly. Or read new information about math and understand this. And history is very complex in its own right. It probably is as compex as math but in different way
Stefan Rijos No they are not. They are having a conversation about why people don't like maths and why we as humans are inherently illogical, even though we think we are. Noone is logical, because we didn't evolve that way. They are laying out a conversation in this video about why people dislike and aren't interested in math.
SAHEEL SINGH I never said that, but given that you seem offended by that statement and that you are misunderstanding what I am saying, when I clearly said something else, leads me to believe that maybe that premise is true. Maybe you should rethink what dumb and smart means. Being smart has nothing to do with knowing everything, but if you do actually believe that, maybe you are a dumbass.
@@INGIE32 pay attention to what they are saying, at first they asked this question, then went on about humans being illogical, you do get what they're implying right? Sarcasm and Doublespeak?
I think this entire analysis is completely wrong. If you take a look at what kind of maths people suck at, it's the stuff that you learn in the elementary and high school, which is basically accountant maths, tedious repetition and high sensitivity of it all to dyslexia or simply making some tiny mistake in copying something from the previous line. When people say they suck at math, or that they are even proud of it, they want to say that they suck at pointless tedious things. Indeed, you need to be an especially boring kind of person to enjoy this kind of thing, and it has precious little to do with logic. All the interesting stuff in math happens later on, after people already got thoroughly disgusted by accountant math.
This is why I prefer doing complex problems. It repulses simpler individual problems that could be done in the same amount of time; which would be tedious and lack context between them. And since all the sub-problems are more interconnected and in context to the bigger problem, it's more subjectively meaningful to the problem-solver. And to some much more pleasant to accomplish. :D What do you think?
C0deH0wler You might be right. Personally, I want to be able to clearly see the applicability, for instance I explain limits and complex numbers to my kid as ways of getting around certain seemingly unsolvable problems, so that he can see what it's for, or vectors as a way of simply adding forces together. In my opinion, just throwing tedious numerical problems at kids without explaining the clear usage case of those mathematical tools is a great way to make them hate maths, and not only maths because most education seems to follow a similar pattern, leading to the conclusion of "I'm never going to need this".
Man. I just have to say to myself again, I'm immensely grateful that I live and was born in a place like New Zealand. I'm just spoilt, man :/ I wish I was a paragon Reaper from Mass Effect.
I kinda like your point, I wouldn't say they are entirely wrong tho. the people i know including me, started to love math when we realized that to solve a math problem you can manipulate what you have in front of you, and you are not restrain. I steel don't know my times table by heart, but i'm steel beating my son at connect 4. But by curiosity you don't think that boring first part is necessary to enjoy math later? (personalty i have a hard time deciding)
What I think: the fun stuff should run in tandem with the tedious stuff. Reasoning: there will be a net positive. But that net amount really is depending on if you find at least a couple of things that excite you in maths. You just have to explore to find them ;D
yeah it's kind of hinted at that illogical thinking was selected for in our past... i think that's more of argument for superstition than it is mathematics though. My guess would be it's probably 90% cultural, ie nature, why we consider math harder than any other subject.
If everyone is bad at math, nobody is bad at math. "Bad" is relative. The reason mathematicians tend to think people are bad at math is because their difference is skill level to the common person is so great. This is simply because people who think more logically, or otherwise "get it more", are more encouraged to use their skills and improve their math ability. Thinking about it from a governments perspective, it makes sense. People who are not so natural will have a more difficult time getting to use math in their lives. So we get the impression that people are "bad", when really some people are just insanely good.
To answer the question poised in the title, it is a cultural thing largely. Part of the reason why Japan has such high math scores in school is because there it is viewed as something everyone ought to be good at, so no one gives up on it before starting it. Studies show that normally people are average at math and the only way to improve is through practice.
Logic is abstract. For an argument to be logically valid, it must demonstrate how certain known facts support/prove a conclusion, and the whole process is abstract. Yet, I never see people disliking logic.
My lowest grades in school were in algebra, trig and calculus. My highest was geometry. We had a quiz where we had to find the center of an incomplete circle and I was the only student in 4 classes to get it right. Geometry just made sense to me because it's founded in something tangible. Many years later, I understand algebra much better than I did in school, calculus is still completely foreign, and as a machinist, I have to use geometry and trig on a regular basis...but I still have to look up how to do the calculations when it comes to trig. It's simply not naturally intuitive to me like geometry.
Going straight to the exercises before understanding the concepts properly, getting ready-made solutions on black boards just after reading the questions and never asking why is it done the way it is are what makes math a monster to students. Teachers complete huge and deep pieces of math that are in your syllabus in just a few days. But to learn them one needs to think about small concepts and every concepts until he/she understand all of it. Don't see solutions first, try to solve them yourself it can take even days but works. Over time your problem solving ability gets better. Problems start to take less. And the feeling that you solved it all by yourself relying on logic inside you is amazing.
The simple reason why people have great difficulty with mathematics is that we process information in pictures first, not in numbers first, and pictures are attached to words and names. Logic has NOTHING to do with numbers and everything to do with how our brain is wired to process and comprehend information. Pictures immediately create images in the mind that help makes subjects much easier to grasp. Numbers, for the most part, are abstractions. When you see the number one you immediate see a mental image of a single object (e.g. an apple, a car, a lemon, etc.) For example, programmers assign numbers to words called variables. Astronomers give names or words to new astronomy discoveries. Biologists provide new species of marine life with names. Even ancient written languages began as pictures instead of words. And so on and so forth. What's the point? Everyone is logical and able to be logical, but expressing logic happens in different ways. Making the argument that humans are mostly illogical because they aren't good at math feels arrogant, especially when it comes from scientists would live in the world of mathematics. Neil Degrasse Tyson and Richard Dawkins simply have the ability to quickly create mental pictures for math and mathematics constructs that others cannot. However, this doesn't necessarily make they are more logical. It only means their logic is different.
Excellent observation! I believe the new AI that google developed that beat one of the top Go players, uses visual representations and simulations to answer its problems.
Is this stuff from dual coding theory (Paivio)? My bet isn't on it. And keep in mind that science doesn't expect equality, when making comparisons. I'm quite surprised with so many people taking them arrogant.
+DM584 I'm not talking about reading or literature. I was referring to how the human mind works. The two aren't mutually exclusive. Humans do not think in numbers. We think in pictures. This thought process is one of the primary reasons why in the Bible we find an incredible amount of word-pictures. God understands humankind and how they think. For example, even though God is a God of Math (as seen in life via the golden ratio, fibonacci sequence, pi, and more), it was his choice not to use mathematical terms like Pi and 3.14159265359 when describing the shape of the earth. At Isaiah 40:22 this simple word picture appears: "There is One who dwells above the circle of the earth". People can logically comprehend a circle.
I failed out of my senior year (12th grade) math class. Entered college as a film student, vowing never to take another math class. I'm now a grad student in applied math. Tell everyone you know about edX, Coursera, etc. at the least. The hard part is motivating people to want to learn (anything in general, honestly).
I'm so proud of you dude Im also in same situation although i didnt fail 12th grade but i want to be a Data Analyst i left engineering after 2nd year I wanna get back to it and conquer it I wanna finish what i had started
You can only be good at things you spend time learning and practicing. You could say everyone is good at math in terms of counting to ten, addition and subtraction ect. Not everyone is good at algebra and calculus or probabilities. But most people don't spend any time studying those mathematical subjects.
It's not only about hard work, it's also about a genetical gift. I know people who never studied for their math tests and got better grades than the geeks who studied several hours a week.
+yak55x cooooooooooooooooompletely petty and irrelevant. All you did was pretend the colloquial connotations they used were somehow not understood (that by math they meant more complex math or higher level math) and nitpick language. And again, it was understood that when they speak of the people who are bad at math they are speaking of those who have tried it before.
Haha lemme tell you, I decided to go for Physics cos my teacher has worked at NASA and made Physics the only subject I cared about. xD There is alot of math, however it is possible to understand all of that with a bit of effort and taking notes and so on. You gotta work alot however, I have to do 2 big exercises every week (as a homework) as well as a big protocol for the experiments we make. The protocol takes about 10 hours, and the rest maybe 1 or 2 each, cos you work in groups and therefore split the work. I don't wanna lie to you, it's pretty exhausting and you won't get too much sleep if you care about any other activity excepts for working... However the career options will be worth the grind. Every. Single. Hour.
lol Naw, not Batman. He was going to say -ware of leprechauns. "The important thing is to beware of leprechauns." Those little bastards get you every time.
I got an 11% on my test today in algebra 2. I've tried super hard and stayed after school to get caught up but I just can't grasp it. My mind does not want to cooperate.
I find this really condescending: While it's great that Neil deGrasse Tyson and Richard Dawkins are super awesome in mathematics, what they don't talk about is how math is presented and taught to us by the so-called educators. There are many of us who try very hard to understand math, but the truth is that there are educators who can't lead a pack of dogs to meat.
Dawkins as usual is up himself... I know plenty of people that wouldn't care that they only have a passing knowledge of Shakespeare or Byron, for the same reason that it doesn't much impact someones day to day life if they aren't aware of calculus or literature or spanish for instance and without someone to enthuse and fire their passion then why would they take the time to delve deep into a subject. I think the point of the whole discussion was lost due to their inability to comprehend that, but I think that is a subject for a whole other video.
I wouldn't really go straight to blaming the teachers, the class set-up has a greater impact then the teachers. I tutored math through HS/college, as well as working as a student instructor. One on one, or even one on a few, makes it much easier to vary your teaching approach and focus on individuals. But as class size grows and the levels of students increase in variety your forced to optimize your approach/explanation to hit the largest # of students possible. This is what really causes the most problems in math education. The teacher can stop to answer questions but not all of them. Often they do not have the time answer a question to a students full understanding without sacrificing the education of the others in the course. In college this is what office hours and other academic support services are for. Hs is trickier, the best solution being smaller class sizes. TLDR While there are bad teachers, our poor math education rest largely on the factory size classes we use.
I almost had to repeat a year in high school because I was very bad at math. Now I study in the best engineering faculty in my country, I realised that math is easy when you pay attention and practice a lot. Some people realise this later in his life.
Cruxair LOL! Same thing here xD been lazy in high school and had Cs and Ds in Math, had a lot of Fs, too, and had to take extra tests in order not to fail and repeat the year. Now I study Applied Mathematics at the best university in my country 😂 There is one of Einstein's quotes: "There are two kinds of people in the world. First ones are those who love Mathematics, and the other ones are those who still did not realize that they love Mathematics." You cannot accomplish anything valuable if you don't put an effort in it, if you don't practice it some hours every day. I wouldn't be able to speak English with perfect American accent (that's what I've been told by some Americans and Canadians I've met) if I haven't been listening to, reading, and speaking it with myself and others every single day. Same thing with German or anything else that I've been good at so far.
I'm working super hard, study and still failing...my bad but you use the formula for Lightspeed a lot ? To build a house ? To calculate the amount money your franchise make ? No ? Then ...
Can I ask for some tips to learn Mathematics, if there are any other than rote learning.... I am pretty smart in most sciences, and I have an understanding of physics... however when it comes to the pure math of it all, I feel like it can be a foreign language.... Although when looking at Physics formulas it kinda makes a bit more sense due to the subjectivity (?) of the variable/function....
school teaches us how to pass exams in the worst way possible,instead of explaining the concept of maths to us or how to develope a creative and progressive way of thinking
It's all about funding. Schools who do well on the exams get more funding from the government, so schools are encouraged to ram everything into the students' short-term memory rather than actually teaching the subject. Memorizing the quadratic formula and pythagoras' theorem is all that matters, no need to understand how or why they work.
It's simple really >poor teachers >poor teaching members >most people don't find it interesting or relevant in their day to day lives I'd say those are the main reasons. Lots of smug maths students/grads in here are going on about how people are "durr too lazy to appreciate the beauty of maths". Lol right.
"most people don't find it interesting or relevant in their day to day lives" That's completely wrong though. Math is extremely helpful for organization skills.
Tell me how something like trigonometric identities is ever going to be relevant outside of school. Yet its the kind of stuff they grade you on and that determines your future.
Vindo I see the mathematics as mostly impractical IRL, I.e. Trigonometric Ratios, but the logical thinking, step-by-step processes, critical thinking and problem solving skills behind mathematics is practical. Essentially, most maths is just an exercise, training your brain in these certain skills.
haha, good one...Do you think algebra is unnatural? I would like to get other people's views on this.. Personally, I was not very happy with basic arithmetic; it's a lot of dry number crunching and the odds of getting the result wrong was high...Algebra actually made Mathematics more palatable for me..
Krishna the moment it got confusing and teachers stopped taking time to explain things enough to be understood, i stopped learning math and started to suck at it
That's sad..Mathematics should be taught like a language....Just like learning new languages, when we start out doing Mathematics we fumble which is quite natural...We need able hands to guide us especially through that initial period so that we gain at least "intermediate" proficiency in it..Whether we should go on to become an "advanced user" of Mathematics is then up to us, again just like learning another language..
Krishna: Agreed on what you said about algebra, and if you look at number theory for example, it uses algebra and analysis much more then simply dry number crunching/basic arithmetic.
+ Evan Urena, I think I'm still quite unnatural at basic arithmetic as I get nervous doing mental calculations....Ironically, I'm an engineer!...I started to like Mathematics more only in middle school even though I wasn't poor at it before that...That was because in middle school, they introduced equations and logic which isn't just numbers... Pure arithmetic with long divisions and multiplications always invited careless mistakes...Careless mistakes are less with algebraic equations..But I see that many people like arithmetic more than algebra.. So it depends on the person I guess..
Say no more bro..... Analysis is brutal..... Hopefully I didn't fail in any analysis paper but just clear them with pass marks Applied math is easy but too long 😂 I get lazy to solve them Analysis 🔪
Feelings are not "illogical" they're mindstates that inspire action in response to perceptions and memories. Sometimes they're distorted by false perceptions and traumatic memories, but, when when functioning normally, our feelings about situations, environments, or people keep us alive.
It's not my opinion, it's an objective fact that is obvious when you just look at the definitions of the words. Logic is a deliberate thought process. Emotions are automatic, involuntary, instinctual reactions to stimuli. They are two entirely separate processes that serve entirely different purposes.
Ken Bell Well, if you actually understood the definition of that word instead of using it to try looking smart, you would know that the answer is obviously no, they're not. I don't know how many times I have to drill this into your head, but an emotion is not reached through rational, conscious thought. It's an automatic response. It's not a complicated concept, man. You don't decide to be angry. You don't decide to be sad. You don't decide to be nervous. You have zero control over what emotions you feel or when, and therefore cannot use any rational process to feel them. I can't explain it any more clearly than that, so if you still don't understand, don't bother replying, because I won't waste my time on this any further.
As a student, I have experienced 2 main issues with mathematics in my class. 1. Most students don't understand why they are studying these things, they believe that things like statistics are completely useless. The same goes for topics like derivatives, logarithms, integrals, etc. . 2. None of the other students in my class like doing math. They don't see the beauty in it. When they are faced with numbers like e, they don't understand why that number is so significant and beautiful. When I tell them that it's special because e^x is it's own derivative, they don't see how that's special because really, they don't even know what a derivative really means. When faced with things like fractals they don't see the beauty in them because they don't understand them. It's quite sad, really.
I find integrals to be enlightening when it comes to mathematics application to real life, considering with triple integration you can derive all geometry formulas on your own with virtually no effort or memorization. Not to mention any other line, surface or volume possible. Additionally Trigonometry is perhaps the *most* every day applicable and significant mathematics one could possibly know. And are even more enlightening than integration imo. If a student fails to see the application of either of these 2 I would be surprised and think that maybe they need more word problems when doing the math. A lot of the other math stuff can be very specific and it is understandable to claim it is useless in terms of everyday situations.
glblank Yes exactly, most people are lazy and that's their answer to a lot of things, including mathematics. The karma is that the ones who are too lazy like won't get to use those awesome things because they don't get a high enough degree!
Ben P. Oh yes, integrals are awesome. We just started with integrals in school so they haven't seen a lot of the things you talked about. This might change however as the questions move from simple things like turning acceleration into velocity to more interesting things. One thing I absolutely hate is that my teacher hasn't said the word "integral" once, she calls it an "anti-derivative". I do understand why she calls it that but you know, after a couple of lessons she should really start naming it properly with the right notation, etc. I'm not really concerned though when it comes stuff like this. The ones who really do have a passion for mathematics are also the ones who get to do great things, especially where I live. As long as this is true, I'm satisfied. Can you imagine... the next Ramanujan not being discovered because he was born at the wrong at the wrong time. What a shame that would be.
Covalence Dust i actually hate the term 'anti-derivative' lol sounds goofy to me, and i agree with you, integral/integration is the proper term and easier to say. Yes by the time you are finished with calculus 3 I think you will love integrals, they are reasonably easy and very powerful, especially since you will be swapping between cartesian, polar and spherical coordinates which can make a harder problem super easy.
This is an interesting conversation. I actually think the fact that many people struggle with math indicates that it's generally taught very poorly, not that it represents the illogicality of our minds. And even though Dawkins seems to think nobody brags about being bad at Shakespeare, I would say that's a similar example of a subject often taught incorrectly, which turns students off of it (sometimes for life).
Prideful ignorance? Really? People have a tendency to laugh at their own insecurities. From my own personal experience, I've come to despise math from several terrible instructors post 7th grade. Given that those years are rather key to basic algebra, geometry, calculus and so forth, everything after that just frustrates me further based on previous experience.
I thought the same thing Tyson had a little more understanding but Dawkins treating it that way was a little irritating. It seems to come pretty naturally to him and it seems that he's ignoring the possibility that it's naturally harder for others and that those dismissals are simply dismissals and not coping mechanisms
I found it interesting how they changed the topic to logic, and yet.they never really answered the video's question. They just melted away from patronizing poor math students into a discussing evolution as per always...nice.
Watch the video again... They concluded that due to logical thinking is not the best for survival, we have evolved in a way that logical thinking doesn't come naturally. Math is essentially logic, they noted that for the discussion that will be the generalization.
Why should they answer a question which was made up by the guy who cut this small fraction of the original video ? The topic was not what the title here said and furthermore they didn’t had the intention to answer why people suck at math. But if you would have watched and listened close enough Neil said at the beginning that math is just perfectly logical but the human brain is not!
And that's the problem (another one, besides his elitism) with Dawkins & Co. Instead of counting all the possible factors that could lead to mathematics being such an unpopular subject, they jump right to the conclusion it must be something in our brain, an "inability" that stems from our biological setup. I was always bad at mathematics in school, so I do feel like this is aimed at me. But my problems with the subject certainly can't be reduced to "it was too hard". I had no problems thinking logically. On the contrary. I remember, there was a small period of time, where I suddenly became interested in maths. And that was the field of logic. I can't remember, what we did, exactly. It's called propositional logic (Aussagenlogik) and it reminded me more of puzzles than usual math. And I loved that. But that was the exception. Most of the things we learned simply didn't seem in any way relevant or interesting. So it seems to me, like there is more to this problem than just: "WE" are naturally bad at it. But Dawkins immediately jumps to our ancestors and his bio-determinism, as if the connection to people that have been dead for millenia was more relevant than the connection to the people that surround us and who are still alive.
Just to help making your statements true: I was one of the worst students in my class when it came to math back in high school. Today I am studying applied mathematics in a prestigious university. But how did that come to be? Genetics? Magic? No, just a good private teacher who sat down with me once a week to teach math from the start. This bio-determinism thing is not a valid argument at all.
***** Sorry, that wasn't my point. I was reinforcing Gandaleon's arguments. Anyway, I also agree that math is like a language. I'd dare to say it is a way to decode the universe btw
Well said. I, for one, have always maintained essentially the opposite theory from Dawkins, which is that humans are *inherently logical* if presented with a cause and effect relationship between events. I got my undergrad in math, and tutored for over a decade of my life. During that time, I frequently took students that previously always had trouble with math and were failing their courses to being some of the top performers in the class. My teaching theory centers around the idea that if they are struggling, some "link/s" in the chain of logical events is/are missing for them. Either they weren't focused when the teacher said it, or the teacher skipped over it, or they just simply forgot it. But if you can care enough to retain what each symbol means and how it relates to the other symbols, there is no reason why a normally-functioning human brain shouldn't be able to understand math. In your case, you didn't retain because it wasn't interesting to you. Your brain discarded the information almost immediately. Nothing wrong with that; it only lends credence to our points that you are not illogical because you can't do math very well, you just don't care about the relationship of the symbols that seem so far removed from your everyday life.
I'm glad that I was taught Maths by my father since childhood. He always used creative examples for teaching. Ofcourse I'm not a mathematics champion but still I realize I'm better than most of the people.
The Chosen One no im assuming you don't know him and I know for a fact that you don't know what's best for him but whats best for you is just to shut the fuck up
Who cares? How is that in any way a useful piece of information? You can't do anything with that knowledge. Math on the other hand is responsible for all the modern marvels that are around us.
How to learn math 1) Download and study the 5th or 6th grade math book and watch videos if you don't get something and look for the answers online. It has examples and explanation, all you need. The rules people talk about are logical enough and requires little memorization while the famous "math is a chain" phrase is simply more detailed and next level of things. So if you think that person is pulling numbers out of nowhere, that's probably because you have missed years but core is simple and by actually studying and solving things on the book, you gain understanding and numbers start to make sense and you gain familiarity and capability to learn more That is all, start with elementary last year or middle school first year (5th and 6th year in my country)
@@zdcyclops1lickley190 why are you here? Most people here are from math background /related to math. They aren't talking about football! Ever heard of the word analysis? Every game requires pretty analysis that's when math comes swinging in! We need math everywhere my dude, it just that you're unaware of it . If everyone starts thinking like you and stop studying math! who will build the cars/motors u travel on, who'll make the gadgets you use! Even the food we eat....... Farmers have to analyze everything(math) like how much fertilizer to put on the soil,whats the ph level of the soil etc to grow crops on large scale. Everything is related to math in one way or the other!
@@thebeatunleashed9509 I wish man. I don't know the way out and I'm usually resilient as fuck. I don't think there's any brain region stimulation type of crap to solve everything either, definitely not the deeper issue. Just don't die to depression, maybe one of us will find something that works
I have an intresting theory on why we fair badly in mathematics. It has to do with 1) lack of empathy from mathematics tutors 2) Assumption..,that everyone in that particular class has earned to be there and that they are at par, in terms of logic reasoning with the tutor.
As a person who was bad at math in school, yet has come to understand it better now, we are definitely wired for math!! Our subconscious minds do extreme calculations all day long. Most people just have a hard time taking that subconscious info, and using it consciously, usually because they think that it’s supposed to be hard. I thought it was about memorizing the written numbers and mnemonic tricks. Later, I realized that if I see the values as pictures of amounts, then the math is easy.
I think some of it has to do with self-deprecating humor as a way to let people know that we're aware of our faults, but we're not bothered by them. We do it about our physical appearances, personal habits, and our lack of skills or knowledge in certain areas. Plus, I think math seems harder than other subjects, because subjects like history or geography involve a lot of memorization, and with memorization, we don't remember all the things that we forgot; so no one is really "bad at" history so much as find ourselves more often or less often hearing about some historical event and saying, "Oh, I didn't know that," whereas with math, it's a skill that we're stuck being faced with on a daily basis. There are also things like art or sports, but people who are bad at those things usually just don't bother with them. (If you're bad at painting, you can get away with just not painting, but if you're bad at balancing a checkbook, you don't have a choice but to keep trying.)
Historically, they laughed because they were basically saying, "As if I would be heartbroken about not being a boring Nerd LoL".... But, luckily, Learning and even being a "nerd" became more respected.....not enough but it is better now!! Bully Kids used to be like, "Why you trying to do Math....You a Fag??"
maybe that is because it is presented in the wrong way. When I was beggining my journey in schol, I used to get things easily. Than, when I could fully understand something, teachers used to say: '' Don't worry. That is just the beginning. Someday, it will be hard''. Imagine telling that to a 7 years old child. The kid will get scared when studying simple algebrae
I don't think that "good" is supposed to mean exceptional in this context, rather capable. Nearly everyone is capable of eating, but fewer people are capable of doing math. The question is why most people aren't able to handle math.
Pavel, I don't agree. Being good at something doesn't mean being better than the average, being better than the majority as you imply. Nearly everyone on the planet are good at walking, breathing. They can be good and not better than most.
Well, if you compare them to an Olympic champion in racewalking, then most people would be bad at walking. Likewise, from Richard Dawkins' point of view, most people are bad at math.
The thing is that math just get interesting when you learning astronomy or modern physics or something that really hook you up. Otherwise it is just so abstract
+Joe Cassara one thing that a math teacher in middle school said to me, that forever changed my mind about the subject being difficult, was; "Math doesn't get harder as you move forward with it, it just gives you more options to figure out the same problems" Obviously there are some problems that require specific formulas or rules, but in the overall scheme of the terror that a lot of younger people consider math to be...this made it my experience very easy to deal with, and in fact made me better at it. Possibly a placebo effect or an actual eye opener, either way it totally washed away my fears.
+C-J Kim good to see at least recently you people could study math . the Greece much years before you people even get civilized was the land of mathematics , science , they discovered all those things you study at school , you need to thank the white race for it and such a great service they gave to not only a dumb like you but to the human kinds. At least respect those great mathematicians (who I tell you 99% of them were whites and be sure about it) , those who gave you some opinions today about what math is and do you know what it is ? what did you study in university ? do you even have any degree ? or are you a little kid ? idiot
The reason people don't talk about how bad they are at Shakespeare is because it's irrelevant. People don't have to recite lines from his plays on a daily basis, but they do encounter math.
I haven't one encountered a trigonometric identity when walking down the street, I have however encountered people, and Shakespeare is about people. Those who are good at math are often terrible at analysing texts such as Shakespeare.
Besides from basic maths (adding, subtracting, multiplication etc.) I have never encountered it besides from the mundane high school maths classes I'm forced to go to.
@Dem0n Yes you do, you just deal with it using other skills. I know teachers are not always the best at conveying the beauty of mathematics, but it is all around you.
I think it's because most of us learn math without any particular context. Math is a universal language and all languages are easier to be learned when it has some context, like the concept of language acquisition. We just learn about numbers and rules.
I think people don't like maths because the majority of it, apart from arithmetic, seems so disconnected from most of the average person's survival needs. Of course, that applies completely differently to our overall quality of life as a society. It's also hard to talk about in an everyday conversation, without pen and paper, and therefore doesn't serve as a good way to connect with people either, unlike music or art.
I agree and want to add that I think people don"t realize how HUGE of an effect maths has on their life, how much easier it has become to live because of all the science and math we've discovered.
I also feel that most subjects are easier to apply in real life than the stuff we learn in math class thus we get more practice with them. The stuff we learn in math class is automatically sent to the brains recycling bin
I'd suggest that its more a matter of people don't understand the meaning of mathematics or of logic, or even how often or indirectly they use it in a day and don't credit their own ability to work with complex math problems instinctively, they simply put are just ignorant of the mathematical talents they possess and put it down to something else.
I AM NOT proud to say it. But I can't do maths. I neither boast nor laugh about it. Should I be ashamed? I tried for years as a schoolboy, understood nothing, and got the worst marks imaginable.It was frightening and humiliating. Later, as an adult over the years I have bought about half a dozen books that claimed to "explain maths from scratch", that said maths could be fun etc. I bought those books not because I had to any more, so it wasn't out of fear, but out of curiosity. I have got nowhere - I usually give up after three or four pages. I can do basic arithmetic, but not the rest. If you gave me an equation to solve and told me I'd be shot if I couldn't do it, I'd wait for my execution. Simple. And I am NOT proud: rather, I'm hurt, by those who accuse me of somehow doing it deliberately. Believe me, I tried.
"...understood nothing..." this is the exact problem. I don't believe that you don't understand anything. I know a lot of people who are bad at maths and science and they mostly have this in common: They are really bad at identifying the exact problem they have. They mostly say "I don't understand topic xyz" or even worse "i don't understand maths" and give up. I don't think that anyone does not understand any math because some of it is intuitive. There is also not a single person in the world that "understands maths" because the field is just too big to understand everything. You need to figure out exactly which step you are not understanding. It is most of the times one small step which makes you "not understand" a certain topic. So you need to identify this step and then try hard to get enough different explainations so you understand the step or you can at least identify a smaller step you don't understand. Also when there are examples you should not be thinking "ok so when i have this exact exercise i will do what is done in this example". You should try to understand the underlying algorithms and concepts so you know exactly why steps in the example are made in the way they are. i could write a lot more but what would probably help the best would be to find someone really good at maths and ask him or her about the mindset this person uses to understand complicated things. Not ask this person for explaining a certain topic but rather how to learn.
It's ok buddy, your brain is not made for that. its all about the genes. Just focus on other things in life, maybe youre good at communication or something.
Math is a language you only use if you choose to do so, only increasing in scope the more you choose to explore it. That's also part of the problem because it often goes against the path of least resistance, which is the one humans are most willing to take. To choose to do something you don't need to do to survive is often considered an unnecessary burden to those who don't really want to. I decided I wanted to, at the very least for a time if I stop after this year, but it has become harder and harder to see the value in progressing as it leads further and further away from being necessary for survival, even at a level where advanced math is considered and the career I have decided is worth my time. I hope it's alright that I wrote a chunk of text here, I guess I was somewhat inspired to start talking. This video and some of the comments just got me thinking. I've always said math is a language, so it made your comment particularly stand out to me.
***** there are truths. and they are described with math. it's like the difference between a numeral and a number. very few people on this planet even know there is a difference.
***** pretty much. I mean... we specialize because it's more efficient to work together and specialize. And the result is that each of us knows something others don't. So yeah
Math is not a language. Math is concepts. The problem of people is that they think that symbols are what makes math what it is: No. I can tell you that one can do math without the use of any symbols at all. Each symbol represent a concept. And those symbols are just made to cut on writing. Sometime those symbols help with calculations. But without the concepts behind, those symbols mean nothing. One can "redefine a symbol" and everything is still Ok; since the concept is there. For example you can "redefine the symbols representing two concepts by swapping the symbols". And that is Ok as long as you remember the concept represented by each symbol and as long as you remain consistent in their use. If someone sees you do computation or whatever with those new symbols, that person might think you are doing wrong and that you are dumb. But the reason is that the person did not know you "swapped the symbols for the concepts", and that you did that intentionally. That is the difference between a language and concepts. Words from a language are derived from concepts; those words are arranged to represent a concept. If you change a word in a language, what you're trying to do is invent a new language. And a concept is the actual thing, the actual idea, it is not a simple word that we can change.
My 2 cents. Talking with a math professor who started a tutoring Foundation told me..." It's not really people and most people have enough sense to pass math, but its the way math books in general are written and edited. Most of these people who make math books are out of touch with your average students." From that point I felt better even though I can't pass college algebra on my 4th go around.
The main reason people suck at Math is that there's no creativity in the curriculum, so everyone is forced to memorize things the hard way instead of using their imagination to make things memorable.
What if I told you the creativity in the curriculum is up to you? You can think of a creative way to remember things or understand things, you choose not to. So maybe the curriculum doesn't lack the availability of creativity, maybe you lack creativity.
Locutus Borg I feel like it has a lot to do with teachers. A lot of teachers just teach memorizing everything you need to know instead of actually understanding it. If you understand why you use a certain formula then you don't really need to try and memorize it because it just makes sense.
I think one of the biggest stepping stones to avoid the 'im not good at math *haha*" Is that, although math is logical and understanding by people naturally, there is a great deal of symbols used when writing out mathematics that much be interpreted for meaning before anyone can use the logic involved. Then people get so lost in the symbolism that they start to distance themselves from the logic and just spend a great deal of time just deciphering. They have a hard time connecting real world to the math symbolism.
Then they should sort themselves out! The symbols make life much easier. When writing out more advanced mathematics, symbols are necessary to be able to state theorems and so forth in a concise manner.
If someone walks into a Real Analysis course mid-semester after having only completed pre-algebra, then of course they would be confused by the symbols. The only trick to being successful at mathematics is to show up everyday and put in some effort.
+Sam Bishop I'm not saying symbolism is wrong. It's entirely important but I think the lack of understanding the symbolism is why people retreat back into the safety net of 'im not good at math' even though math is entirely logical.
+properbeatz I won't argue a lack of effort. But I think more importantly it's a lack of making the connections from one symbolism / concept to another. Mathematics gets into deeper and more complicated symbolism that people struggle to connect with
+Justin Worboys: For me it was always the seemingly endless amount of formulas that had to be memorized once you get into more advanced mathematics like Algebra and Calculus that did me in, along with poor instruction on the teacher's part in a terribly lacking school system that didn't provide a proper foundation for most of this to begin with. In my last two years of high school, I had a teacher from the Philippines who barely spoke English, and I had him for both Intermediate Algebra and Calculus. Most of his class periods consisted of the students just trying to decipher his broken English, and the highest grade in the class was a C. Totally f**ked me when I got to college. But I can't put it all on him, because from middle school all through highschool, not one of my math teachers were particular good a teaching or breaking down complex information for the layman. They would instruct you as if you were a mathematician and already spoke their language, which was another great barrier, the math jargon. They start casually using this new vocabulary without explaining what most of these new terms mean, and at best, they might gloss over a few or them once, and if the terminology didn't get burned into your mind that first time, you were f**ked. Then once you start getting into complex math equations involving unknown variables, you live and die on knowing/memorizing the formulas, and all the different steps to take and at what point to take them, in each formula. At least, that's the way it was in my personal experience. The logic aspect was never the problem for me
I think the biggest problem with math education is that it isn’t taught as a subject of intrigue but of pure practicality, despite actually being a subject of intrigue. Mathematicians don’t sit around thinking of how to build better bridges or rockets or write better programs. They try to find answers to interesting questions. Unfortunately, math isn’t taught like that
I believe that the reason people don't do well in Math is because it's complicated (yes, I know, it sounds like a dumb anwser but hear me out) Math is a subject that requires a lot, a LOT of knowledge. If you fall behind on one single thing, you're not going to understand the next thing, and the next thing, and so on. Right now I am an 9th grader at a really crappy highschool with a really bad teacher/education. Last year my Math teacher got pregnant and had to leave for a whole semester, over that semester we had multiple subs that had no intention of teaching us anything and just sat back in their desk and gave us worksheets on stuff we already knew how to do, it wasn't challenging, it's wasn't something we had to critical think to understand, it was EASY. They didn't care if we used our phones, they didn't care if we made a ruckus, they didn't even care if we screamed at the top of our lungs! All that time I thought god had made my teacher pregnant and gave us all a gift to not learn Math, but I was wrong. I had lost over one semester worth of Math knowledge without even knowing or caring. But this is just impossible. I used to be REALLY good at math, REALLY good, and I mean it. I used to always get 100 percent on all my tests, and I finished that class with an A. Since I had an A, I decided that I should choose the "honors" program next year at highschool since I was really good at math. But boy was I wrong... In my 8th grade class we finished the year knowing what a radical was and how to simplify it to it's bare minimum. But now I'm doing stuff like solving systems of inequalities, proving the Pythagorean theorem and proving the ratios of special right triangles. But tell me this... HOW IN THE ACTUAL FUCK AM I SUPPOSED TO DO THAT IF I DONT EVEN KNOW WHAT A DAMN RADICAL IS FULLY!! This fucking system of education is retarded. And it's not just me who is getting damaged by it, but it's other students too. And to top it off, the damn teachers don't teach a single thing! They expect us to know everything that they're giving us and to turn it all in with everything right! If we ask for help, they just tell us to work it out! Is this for real? Why am I even trying to pass my class. The stuff is too complicated. I can't find any information online and tutors are really expensive, I don't have money to do that. My parents are latino and they don't understand what's on the paper, and my older brothers are not even home already. Who in the actual fuck is supposed to help me! None of my classmates known how to do this stuff except the ones that were already in honors for 2 years. But for even them it's hard to do! Does anybody relate to me or what?!?!
Nestiray, Teach yourself, you have a computer or some form of mobile device I assume since you made this comment, look it up if you actually care. "School isn't a place for smart people" - *R&M*
General math has so many different topics that don't build up from prior knowledge. American courses don't even go in depth about them either. It's hard to find good math teachers though. Explaining logic that is obvious once you know it is hard to pass on. You can easily forget to explain something because it is natural to you. The only advice I can give you is keep asking questions and study hard.
It's funny because I'm in seventh grade I just learned NOTHING and now in eighth I don't get a lot of stuff, why? Because my teacher was a 5th grade teacher moved up to a middle school and well let's say I learned nothing at all just reviewed forever
Folks, I recently made a video about "Why Math Sucks," which looks at it from the student perspective, and from reading several of the comments below I think and hope many of you would appreciate this: ruclips.net/video/yB_aomp0awc/видео.html. I would love to get your thoughts, comments, and to know if this video was useful for you guys (I really don't want to waste anyone's time). Thanks so much! -ilya
Math is actually quite simple. I dont understand why I even clicked on this video. I'm too smart for all of you. For example, did you know that 5 + 10 is 510?
Richard Dawkins loves to think he's totally logical. I don't think he wants to admit that our decisions are emotion based. That's what Degrasse was trying to tell him. Computers use logic, " reasoning conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity", as reality is fluid, changing constantly, we need to constantly re assess the situation. That's where emotions come in. Had we used "strict principles of validity" it would render us incapable of adapting, but emotions allow us to reprogram ourselves on the fly. But, that's barely a scratch on the surface of how useful emotions are.
I get that impression from Dawkins as well. I can understand why he might avoid factoring in the importance of emotional thinking (at least in his public talks that I've seen) as that leads to some awkward debates. It would imply that simply being "right" about things isn't enough, or even that being "right" isn't as black and white in reality as it is in mathematics. The thought that being illogical is sometimes beneficial is one that I suspect makes him deeply uncomfortable.
+Mollytov Xx A perfect example of this truth is space flight and exploration. So many things about the universe tell us that it's illogical to want to explore given the extreme limitations of the human life span and technology. The truth that does not keep us from attempting to understand it and attempting to develop the technology necessary to one day explore it. If Quantum Mechanics has proven anything it's that it's impossible to know anything with absolute certainty so despite how they may feel emotion and illogical thinking is sometimes necessary and valuable.
Two replies, both sophisticated! First time that's ever happened to me on youtube. MollyTov, I think your spot on, as I started to realize what emotions really are, I've realized "truth" and "fact" can be quite relative. All we do is take an educated guess at everything, learn a bit more, then take a slightly better guess, we rarely have enough data to use logic, so we mainly use emotion. Manrightchea I think you could be right. We have everything we need here. We can see useful things in space that we have on earth, but the resources needed to get them, far outweigh the benefits (that we can see), especially when you consider that space, and nearly all the planets are totally uninhabitable. So going to space for resources is not valid! So yes, It's very illogical. But the thrill of exploration, the joys of innovation and curiosity, make it essential.... but once that's all done, to the point where space travel is easy... getting those resources from space will be totally logical! So Logic is, in this case, inferior to emotion.
I don't really want to see this conversation edging into logic vs emotion (which I know we've been trying to avoid but I can see it simmering there). It's not a matter of which is better, but which is more useful in differing situations. To briefly address Jm Mac, I will say that there are situations were reassessing using logic is not useful. For example situations which require a quick reaction time. I do find it interesting though, how often we apply reasons to the things we do after the fact then call ourselves logical beings. What I love about the pursuit of logical thinking is getting us to re-examine ourselves more closely so as to avoid this behavior in the future. However there is a lot to missed out on in life if this is the only thing you focus on.
***** That's a different philosophy. We are talking in terms of psychology. Emotions, despite what they tell you in school are not simple whims. They are governed by our subconscious, which picks up things we don't notice. You have described uncontrolled emotion. In practice, most people think they make decisions based purely on intellect or logic and don't realize they are really acting on emotion. However, We need all of them, but more times than not, we simply don't have enough data to make decisions purely based on logic or intellect. meeting new people is a prime example, but to use our emotions well, we need to take time to understand them like the psychologist does.
Maybe people aren't bad at math, perhaps they are bad at numeracy. Assigning symbols (numbers or letters) to represent certain values or concepts, makes it less intuitive. Most people are able to intuitively make monetary calculations because they are less abstract. (Ex. 3 apples for $1.00 is about $0.33 per apple). Apples and money are tangible objects, numbers on a paper or screen are less intuitive. Symbols don't necessarily equate to logic for most people.
With every other subject, we are taught to memorize and regurgitate information. The problem with mathematics, is that it’s about understanding the concepts so that we may apply them in different cases. So many people try to memorize what they’re taught in a math class, and then are incapable of turning in homework or exams because they only remember the one case that was discussed, but did not take the time to understand why the concept works the way it does
That’s actually why I found math easy. I hated when teachers didn’t explain it and try to have us memorize. I would always tell the teacher that I need to understand how it works and then I’ll be able to solve all the equations.
"Unwarranted pride in being bad at mathematics". Hit the nail right on the head. Everyone in my family thinks I'm some sort of genius for actually putting the effort in with maths, the vast majority are not gifted in the subject, including myself. I just don't have the doomed to fail attitude with it... It takes countless hours of repetition to engrave equations and techniques into your skull, like anything.
Only in North American culture do people laugh about not being good at Math. The public education system in North America is the Lowest in the WORLD when it comes to mathematics. Everywhere else in the world, including Europe, it's very embarrassing to not be able to do mathematics.
Feeling and being Sociable is more important to North Americans, and this is the way teachers teach in school. this is the reason for all the protesters who are ANGRY with stuff that makes no sense to the rest of the world who do logical things like math and respect other peoples way of life.
Most of that laughter about not being good comes from a place of insecurity. That may just have to do with American idiosyncrasies. I genuinely doubt any person in earnest is proud of being bad at mathematics
It's the same thing here in Brazil, the kids can't understand math, the truth is... They don't give a fuck. They are more interested in sex and their smartphones.
I'm Irish and I was always ashamed in school that I was the bottom of the class in maths, despite being good at or even top of the class in many other subjects.
Captain Athens, Great job there. Going with the bias option that ONLY Americans are ignorant and believe they are proud about it, from the look of this reply section I would say the only ignorant individual here is you, and it's a shame that you represent your continent with such a stroppy and egocentric attitude.
The only problem with mathematics is that is presented to us from young age in a wrong way, usually by the wrong people who ended up as teachers sort of unwillingly. They immediately give you the wrong image of mathematics, to you it becomes something completely abstract, a bunch of meaningless numbers. I was always bad and uninterested until I started investigating it myself. Learned a lot and still try to learn something new every day. It is the best exercise for the brain, it's always been and it's still unparalleled today. If only they could find a way to make kids interested in it and remain interested forever. That's the x we're looking for here.
I honestly think that it's about the current state of the teachers, rather than being interested in it. Those who are really good at math and love the numbers and calculations, end up on universities and go get well paid jobs. Those who are not good at teaching it/ do not understand it as well as those with the better jobs, end up being the teachers.
Education and Healthcare are the most important things in the human life, and yet we value it less and less ( both teachers' and doctors' reputation are getting worse). If people understood how important theese things are, and we then invested more in having better doctors and teachers, then we would be on a road to having a brighter future.
But mathematics *is* something completely abstract. And it has no innate meaning beyond abstractions. That is not a weakness of mathematics, but it's biggest strength as it can express things that we have no direct experience of - and there is a fair chance that a novel scientific theory that operates far from our experiences can fall back on some piece of mathematics developed decades or even centuries ago that describes systems like the one proposed in the theory. Asking for mathematics to be less abstract is asking it to stop being mathematics.
Simon Gunkel i think you misunderstood "abstract". if it's abstract it doesn't mean it can't be presented in such a way that it's clear, understandable and, if possible, interesting. this text we're writing is abstract as well, but whoever taught you to write it probably found an intuitive way to teach you (it is easier with letters and words obviously). a good teacher should be able to provide the same to you, only in mathematics. besides, it doesn't really need to be that abstract, some people have trouble understanding something that is abstract, so it's crucial to connect mathematics to real life somehow. this is what most teacher don't even bother to do, especially with kids. and if you want to make someone interested in mathematics, it's best to start at young age. fail to teach a kid, and you failed completely. well, at least that's how it happened to me and many of my peers.
MyRealName But "it's crucial to connect mathematics to real life somehow" is precisely what I mean. The main body of mathematics does not have such a connection. And the bits that have are usually connected to real life through science, which is separate from mathematics. I do understand that some people struggle with abstraction, especially when it is as pure as it gets in mathematics. But in that case I don't think maths can be made to accommodate them. In the end real mathematics is build on manipulating abstract symbols using abstract rules. And if you stray from this you are sacrificing what makes mathematics mathematics.
Simon Gunkel real life doesn't equal physical life. by "real life" i mean something that is "real" to our mind, imaginable in any way and there are many ways to get to the point when your mind "clicks". do you see what i mean? by "real" i mean understandable to human. a huge pile of nonsense which a task usually looks like isn't understandable, unless it's presented in the right way. basically, we must present mathematics in such a way that it's possible for someone to connect the dots and actually completely understand it. it is all about bringing it closer to someone, it's about how you explain it. without that, you can only wait until you're old enough to understand it yourself without anyone explaining it to you..
You can’t expect the majority of students to become good at math or any “logical” subject when they have been programmed there entire time in school to do it for the sake of getting a good grade, not learning it. In a short amount of time, students must cover large amounts of material and they know enough where they can write an exam and then forget about it because it wasn’t learned and more importantly understood.
This comment made my day.. Tho exact thoughts!
Frfr I used to be good at math but in high school I don't really understand it anymore
Everyone is complaining about school system, but what you people don't understand is that in this fast moving world (especially 21 century) people gotta learn to think act fast. And you can't do that if you are taught one specific topic for over a week. Tutors try to make you trained to quickly comprehend a lot stuff in short amount of time since primary school. Otherwise you will be late. I understand that there are a lot of people who simply can't keep up (i personally am one of those people which is why i am deep in pile of turd these days), but there are those who do. And schools operate taking them into account saying sth like these kids can the rest will do fine as well. And in the end we get one Elon Musk among 1000 Logan Pauls. That's the way of the world. trend has been established long ago and it will never be changed. So just keep up or take a sh*t overboard.
Short amount of time? You gotta be fucking kidding me? How about bringing more math classes instead of learning some other useless classes..
I'm learning my math again after 15 years off school and that's just it. It's taught to you so you can pass the exams, it's not taught to you because you need to understand it. And it's true, that's the paradigm that most fall into. After the exams, the things the learned are never visited again.
out education system tests memory not intelligence.
Short term memory if even.. you dont have to remember all of it forever...
Not only that, but educated doesn't necessarily make your more intelligent, but it makes you more knowledgeable.
SmashBrosBrawl what nigga????
Going to school doesn't increase your IQ.
If schools rewarded students for intelligence hardly anyone would graduate.
For someone who cries when they get answer wrong, stresses about everything, can't concentrate, mind wonders, visuel learner. It's really hard.
That's soo me
It’s hard to learn something if you’re not interested in it
@@Slyracoon666 How can someone be interested in maths when he only had bad experiences with it, connects failure with internally etc?
Meeeee
Since we all together in that situation lets make a group chat on facebook
Because they don't teach us WHY? They teach us HOW?
Easy answer.
EXACTLY
3b1b(Grant dude) is there to save humanity from this thingy 😎👍
He's an intuitive guy who always answers the WHY question.
Exactlyyyy
Yeah humans are creatures of meaning, you need to make maths deeper as well as more complex. I haven’t seen a mathematician look at mathematics so importantly though - perhaps in India and other ancient lands (where I’m from)
Counter argument: Math professors are bad at teaching it and making it interesting. On youtube I found and learnt a lot of cool stuff about math. But high school math? god I was bad and it bored me to no end.
So goddam true!
Math is the easiest to learn
True comment. Seriously. I've been through the same situation.
A fair argument. But that might have more to do with _your_ intent than any absolute result a teacher might hope to (re)produce. That is to say, perhaps you could only really learn about mathematics when you developed a personal interest/desire in a topic therein of particular use to you. To most people, mathematics is a subject about as far removed from their desires in their professional and personal lives as you can get. However, when people realize the situational usefulness of certain branches of mathematics in practically every field, they'll feel a genuine draw to learn it and thus see it's usefulness in their own lives, and not be forced to imagine that possibility in some theoretical scenario.
MikhailBakunin look, I agree, but the only conclusion I can come to us that our mathematical skills depend partially on our interest and partially on who teaches us. rapsody230 mentioned clearly that he liked math when he learnt it from RUclips, so it would be wrong to say he doesn't like math. I think it is fair to say that not everyone make the topic interesting. In fact, very few people can.
Math is often taught in abstract ways and not in an applied way.
You can also be "wrong" in math, art can be subjective and entertaining.
People seem to excel in math once it becomes practical to them.
The only art in which you can't be wrong is modern art and modern Pop/HipHop. And that's why the world is going to shit. People think there are things they can't be wrong in and don't care for the stuff you can be wrong in.
Many, just as I, see the the beauty of Math as it's perfection and exactness, so I don't think it is subjective, neither a form of art. It does work in art, but it as a tool. Still, Math is awesome!
tell me what part of school math is abstract
?
Pratyush Desai Simple. The ideas that 8 x 1 and 1 x 8 are the same. In third grade I called bullocks (in my mind) on this concept. The value (8) is the same but those are two very different propositions. That is, 8 x 1 are eight unique instances occurring once each and 1 x 8 is one occurrence repeating eight times. Right or wrong, that's how I saw it as a kid. But the teacher said, "no, they're the same." Really? How? They're very, very different in my mind. But I had to accept the "abstract value of 8." Dumb, I concluded. And these two are telling me math is logical? That was the start of my strained relationship with math.
second degree equations. I only truly understood the use of bhaskara in my last months at school. I spent over 4 years solving equations and still not understanding what I was doing
Our education system doesn’t explain the importance of logic, mathematics , and science to students. I sometimes think that it is more important to do that than to teach the subjects themselves.
absolutely. As students we are not told why we are doing things, only how. It's ironic that the way in which we teach math today is illogical. If students have a clear understanding of it's importance in life ('thinking outside the box'/problem solving as well as everyday applications) they will learn much better. The question is not why are people not good at math, it is how can we teach it BETTER!
Ive used science many times in my life, even daily.
Never have I once used math beyond basic arithmetic and I have a calculator on my phone
The biggest thing that makes people dislike math is how It is learned in schools. The schoolsystem makes people hate math.
yup thats a fact
totally agree
I think that this statement is an excuse. People dislike math, because it required TIME and especially PERSISTENCE to learn it when the math problems are hard and people don't get the right solution in the first effort. Unlike history or languages, which require only TIME, because it's just reading and memorizing facts or words.
I don't think so, after you put the time in learning math you then are able to solve certain problems without having to remember how to. Instead Most other mnemonic classes you have to constantly remember them and repeat them and if you do not repeat them the time you put on it will be completely useless after a little while.
+rapsody230 yeah but what about those certain problems that involve certain steps to do you need to memorize that too
If I laugh after saying "I'm not very good at math", it's a defense mechanism, not a prideful boast about my lack of mathematical expertise!
I should've been more specific! Basic math isn't a issue; I was an inventory specialist for almost twelve years. I meant types of math like calculus and trigonometry. I interpreted what NDT said one way and you another way!
That's one logical deduction that seemed to have flown over the heads of these two rather pretentious genius'.
+Saad Hasib Agreed. They talked the whole time about people being bad at math logic, but completely forgot about plenty of people who're good at math and logic. Partiality.
(Don't get me wrong, I love the works of Tyson and Dawkins. But that doesn't mean I don't disagree with this video. I'm not partial)
I completely agree! I don't think anybody's actually proud of being
"bad" at math. Most people just openly admit it because it's something
others can relate to. And as with other things that are a source of
shame, they tend to laugh it off, and Dawkins misinterprets this as
pride. I've had problems with math at school for years, and I
laugh about it, even though I've only recently managed to (at least
somewhat) overcome the negative feelings towards the subject and myself
that came with the problems in school. I find it a shame, because math
is a really interesting subject, but school ruins it for so many people.
no, they consider it a source of shame and laugh it off as a copping mechanism to not completely break down and curl up into a ball and cry.
I tried to get into teacher training in math, but the interviewers rejected me because I actually conveyed how much I GAVE A CRAP about helping kids learn. Said what I would do is hold classes where i'd use a projector and the software Mathematica to inspire their minds and get them to think in a more creative and 3D way. Schools don't want people who can "teach" and inspire, they want people who can help kids to pass exams - that's all. What's wrong with doing BOTH? When I was at University, I used the trick of tabular integration to answer homework, but it was marked wrong, as that was not the "method" being taught. Richard Feynman didn't care how his students got the correct answer, as long as the method was logical and constructive.
Yes, very true.
TcO FroooZeN Scotland
TcO FroooZeN I've spent time gaining experience in both state and private schools for experience before my application was rejected, and noticed that pupils in private schools are pushed harder, given more homework and as a result longer holidays. They have the best equipment to do whatever, and greater opportunities because of the reputation of their school. I can't really comment on fun per se, but whatever the school, I think the system is probably 5/10, because ( and here I mean specifically maths) technology is underutilised when it could benefit and accelerate learning so much.
A trick like tabular integration doesn't constitute a proper mathematical answer. Tricks are tricks, and cannot substitute a legitimate argument. You should know that if you have any intention of teaching mathematics, so this is a little worrisome. Secondly, these interviewers spend all day sifting through applicants who have romantic views of inspiring students. How can you be sure that your idea of exposing students to Mathematica would "inspire their minds" and get them to think in a more "creative and 3D way"? (Whatever that means). As an interviewer for a position like that, you really need to make sure the applicant can deliver information efficiently and clearly; "inspirational" is a given. Why else would you apply?
anasrahman do I smell a teacher? And what's your definition of a "proper" mathematical answer? Tabular integration is just a faster way to arrange the steps of ibp. Would you have given Feynman a zero mark for writing the answer to every question down without any workings? ( which is exactly what he used to do in an exam)? I have no more intention of becoming a teacher. Read my original post again. I mentioned how - in my experience (I.e. not speaking for everyone) - I had that desire crushed out of me. P.s. would you use integration by parts if you had a TON of Fourier Series to do for a part of more complicated partial differential equations ?
"People are not bad at math they are just not being taught how to learn and apply it"
They taught us the simple and digestible solution to a math problem after that suddenly we need to apply it in a much complicated problem using the same method that taugh us. That why some say math is hard because they wanted people to be one step ahead. Like riding a bicycle on a train wheel the first time but the second time u ride it they remove the train wheel.
@@poporikishin4922 Exactly. That's why people can't even begin to apply math in anything.
A baby won't be able to use a word the right way just because it memorized how to say it.
Even super computers and A.I. need to be taught how to apply cues and methods before they start growing by themselves.
@@geradosolusyon511 true we need a math teacher that give time for people to learn. not all people are fast learner some are slow learner but better at the end game than fast learner. I remember when i was in first year IT student there is one teacher who give us the problem to programming only to give us the method of solution after we fail and how to create. making this teacher useless as this teacher on whole semester that all it do. I can grab a module and learn it better since this teacher is like a module but worse like this teacher teach not to help the student to learn but to earn money. That what we do we study the module before the teacher comes to gave us one problem we already learned it on ourselves or we fail then that when it give us the solution.
Exactly, saying humans are bad at math is the same as saying a computer is bad at binary.
Very correct, the applications are not taught
2 + 2 is 4 minus 1 that's 3. Quick Mafs
Big Shaq
Man's not hot
@@yangxia6011 Its a joke.
Smoke trees ah!
OK, now do -2 + (-3)/|2 - 4 +5 - 3|
Math teachers, in my experience, are some of the least passionate and boring presenters.
Yes, many in my experience aren't "people persons." That's fine. When I encountered Math teachers who acted like they'd rather be elsewhere, I would try to rely on the textbook. The problem there was, so many of these books are so poorly edited that they would tend to gloss over certain steps and offered little help. Sure, the chapter would begin with clear instruction, but then it would skim over point C and my sense of the operation would collapse from there.
Well, I quite like math teachers. Math classes are always my favourite alongside with IT classes. Or at least I think they're better than Social Studies....
Cruel and abusive.
@@johnnymidnight2982 You are exactly right about the text books
@SkyFloats No doubt
Let me put it this way - it's not that people are illogical, it's that the subject is taught to us in a illogical way. You can't see logic in any part of the world or things, if you do not know where something starts, what is your end goal and why. Teachers don't tell you why you are doing something, or let you come to the conclusion why doing this and that makes sense. They just put you on a track and make you follow it. 90% of the time you are just working with numbers and formulas that are random to you, because no one is telling you how, when and what for they are used. You simply can't see the logic in this way, it's impossible. They don't give you a set of tools to solve your problems, they give you the already combined solutions and make you work with them, just by switching the numbers and values around. For me, math becomes natural and logical when I have a problem to solve, and I have to find a way to do it. Actual problems that need solving when I'm programming. This is because I know the end result I need, and I fully understand it. Then it is just a matter of time to get the right tools.
Great answer, man! Totally agree.
yes!
I went through years of math tuition in school - none of which tried to even begin to tell me what this stuff was used for. Essentially, wrote learning. I was desperate to find out how I could actually use this stuff...
Years after leaving school (decades, in fact) it finally clicked and I found my own uses for everything I'd had force-fed into my brain. Thank God for personal computers and God damn bad math teachers.
This is debatable. It's better to just learn the language through learning the rules and repetition first. You must be fluid in the language before you apply it to physics and real world concepts or else you will have a lot trouble. Trust me you cant just throw someone in an engineering course and teach them algebra and physical concepts at the same time. The way you solve math and physics problems are not the same. Take it from me, I'm a third year engineering student.
Wrong . Humans are grossly illogical.
nanotech2080 yes! This is why it's important to teach a a whole and make it applicable. If not, your just learning the steps and not understanding the reason behind it.
It wasn't until I hit High School that I started realizing this weird phenomenon with some teachers. It had to do with math, it seemed when someone raised a very good question about not understanding a concept, at least the teachers I came across including college would always answer with, we'll get back to that and they never did. So I started kind of watching teachers and realized that most were just reading instructions as they went along. This happened a lot with the younger teachers, the older ones wouldn't put up with my shit and kick me out of the classroom.
Facts.
"We'll get back to that..." Yep, heard that one before. And although they would simply recite from the book, the books were so lousy, that they would gloss over many of the operational steps - and so would the teacher. Once, I had an Algebra teacher who was clearly getting annoyed with my lack of understanding and told me, "Look, I'm really an Econ teacher and I'm just filling in for someone on sabbatical. If you need me to go above and beyond the presented material, you should look for another class."
@@johnnymidnight2982 at least the teacher's honest. Could be worse, especially in Asia.
@@geradosolusyon511 Absolutely! I took his advice, did find another teacher and I got straight As and Bs.
Omg ur right
Logic and mathematical thinking are mostly abstract. Practical thinking is what has kept people alive for the majority of human existence. It's not so much logical vs illogical, it's abstract vs pragmatic.
Good answer that's one reason
Whenever I learn a new mathematical concept, I always first find out what the motivation for it is. That way it becomes pragmatic & I understand what it's trying to achieve
Also, very often what mathematics is "about" (the kinds of ideas it concerns) can be divided into two broad categories: 1. rules and calculation and 2. pictures, collections, space, and continuous "flows" and connections.
Professional mathematicians respect both these aspects of mathematics, but they tend to have to greater esteem for the second. And this isn't surprising, because although the human brain doesn't have natural calculating ability, it does have natural spatial understanding. And so in a very important sense, people are actually hardwired to do very complex mathematics.
People fail to recognize their natural aptitude and bemoan their perceived math incompetence because schools only emphasize the first aspect of mathematics and rarely and insufficiently the second.
your answer make so much sense that it makes Neil look stupid
Pretty cool though. I am not practical, and im not good at maths. Im creative to some degree, but not in any noteworthy shape or form. Im not good at sports, nor video games for that matters. I dont really have any special talents either. The biomechanics ofy body could never make me a powerlifter, and the shape of my muscles/genetics cant make me a bodybuidler. Ive always felt that some people get the looks, some get the brain, some are good at sports, and some are very creative( musics and arts ) it seems to be compansated in some way or shape. I just never became good at anything. I dont even have the will to push myself to become half decent at something. On top of all this, im pretty lazy...However. I am happy :) I think
As a preteen kid, i often ask'd my teachers and parents why i needed to know the tables of multiplications, fractures etc. And i wouldn't get a straight answer from them. They would all answer in a similar way like; 'you just need to' and 'it comes in handy when your older'. This only lead to new questions that annoyed the teachers even more.
I think that if someone explained to me that with math, i could figure out the with of the earth like the people of Ancient Greece, help to figure out how to get a satellite in orbit or even something as simple as calculate the angle of a skateboard ramp to make an awesome jump i would have bin much more interested.
Elementary teachers are often boring as hell and don't stimulate the natural curiosity in children when they are presented with the wonderful universe around them. Teachers need to get into the mind of little kids and wrap math up in a wonderful dream evoking package that will spark their interest in science for the following decades.
Sad that they usually prefer lecturing boring repetitions without explaining why.
Well I can give you a good reason. wothout those xtremely low level mathematics you will be gullible and really easy to manipulate. With mathematics you gain not only a new tool to understand the world and make it fold under what you want, ( hell engineering is completely based on that ) and it also makes you far less subceptible to being manipulated.
+Borja Fernández López i know this now 😉 but my point was that teachers and parents didn't make me enthusiastic about math.
on a side note, i think Fair based a arguments aren't the best in getting kids to like math. when you tell a kid he needs it because otherwise he will be easily manipulated. kids need dreams and wonder. somehow a lot of parents and teachers can do this with other classes like geography and with music lessons but not with math.
Well, I think it's important to know the difference between fractures and fractions.
+Jason Houston lol. thx..
English isn't my first language, and fractures and fractions translate to the same word in my native tongue.
Nash Ensinck oh that's interesting
you will never learn math correctly and enjoy it until you are taught by someone who has true passion for it.
That's a lie, it just makes it easier. You can learn math entirely on your own. How do you think people discovered it in the first place? The stupidity here...
Yep, when I was in college I got through my first college algebra classes by watching the dvds that came with the book. The teacher was useless.
Haha ya, that is, if you accept the Well Ordering Principle.
I had a similar experience in college. But you know what. I think it was just an excuse to make myself feel better about being so lazy and useless. But thats me.
this is so so true. i believe that teachers are to mostly to blame here; they dont make maths enjoyable. i learned more maths form websites like m4ths, khan academy , exams solutions, hegarty maths etc than i have during my time in school.
i REALLY wish i could be good at math 😢
I know, I know. I wish I was good at math to * cries *
same :(
Computers will do the maths jobs for us in the near future , Don’t worry 😉
You all can be good at math, you just have to be wiling to put in the time to practice...just like anything else in life!
You just need to wish harder people.
I was terrible at maths and I hated being terrible becasue I wanted to be good, plus I had a family of mathematicians so it was doubly worse.
However, I'm convinced that it was 80% the WAY I was taught rather than my own ability. I'm a kinesthetic learner so pages and pages of textbooks were just useless to me, but a practical application where what was being done could be properly visualised made it all click together.
At the moment I believe that there are four types of learning methods - text, kinesthetic (practical), visual (shapes and pictures) and aural (speech/sound), yet only half of that (text and aural)is being using in schools and Universities, so it's no wonder that people are being left behind.
Honestly, all of these are applied from time to time by different teachers, the one used least often being the practical kinesthetic style. And most teachers will only use the two you mentioned concentrating mainly on text. The truth is that we need all of these to get a complete grasp of a particular subject, or it won't mean much to us and we'll forget what we've learned.
Grade 12 I failed math , took summer school and had an amazing teacher and passed with 94%. A lot of it had to do with the fact I was going over everything again with actually understanding it the second time. I was so lost and stuck during the school year, but a teacher can really make a difference.
I don't love math, but I can understand it. I can't do equations and calculations in my head but I can on paper, and with a calculator, but I understand what I'm doing.
That has been debunked. All people benefit equally well from all methods of teaching and what works best in all cases is trying to incorporate as many different interpetations of the same information as possible. So no, you’re not actually a kinethetic learner. Sorry.
Katja you missed his point
@@morgangreen2601 I didn't. It doesn't mean getting creative with how the material is presented didn't help him, I said he's not a kinesthetic learner. Because nobody is.
I was a wiz...at Arithmetic. Once I got to Trigonometry, for the very first time in my life in *any* class, I had no idea what was going on. It's the abstraction, not the lack of logic, that confounds people about Mathematics. Once I can figure out the *why* of something, I can almost always figure out the *how.* I was never able to do that with higher Math.
Good explanation thanks
What I find really funny about this is that if you were to sit in any upper level math class, you would find that the entire class is focused on the why. Practically everything encountered dieing primary and secondary education is "this is how it works. Remember it and be able to do what I just did." Actual mathematicians spend all of their time on "Why does this thing work?" and "Can I get an idea of what's going on here so I might be able to explain why this happens?"
in my country i passed basic maths and advanced maths "barely"... but i passed nonetheless, i just didnt care since i claimed that i dont need them in life (other than 1+1=2 etc. very basic things but with bigger numbers sometimes)... and even to this day i dont need most of those advanced stuff i was taught.
However... once i applied to a university (next step after business school which is after elementary) i took part in the selection tests... i had no fking clue how to do those calculations. The learning curve was real, so i never got to a university nor did i even bother learning those maths.
I remember one part was like: a car is going Y speed and has X amount of time to slow before a crash, how long of a road does the car need to be able to stop.
No clue where to even start doing those kinds of calculations... either the presentation was completely different from what ive been taught or i just dont know. (i never had those kind of assignments in books of earlier schools... it was all numbers, no real life scenarios)
This seems mainly an issue of how things are taught.
I know physics is just math tied to very specific understood concepts, yet I've seen people immediately try to turn the situation into an equation, then ignore the original situation the question was about when getting the answer. And they end up with a result that if you just look at the original situation you're just like "that can not be anywhere near true" but people seem to think that abstracting it is the way to go, when you could often remain very close to the original situation for most of the calculations.
Summed it up nicely. This was what I was expecting Neil or Richard to say.
We can become stuck in a rut of tirelessly wondering why something works and not have the means to figure it out, so we become exhausted and accept memorizing formulas and algorithms to solve things. Funnily enough, some people might be better at math if they just don't question the why it works and concentrate fully on the how it works.
It is extremely frustrating that the 'why it works' might only become clear after many years of application and study. This turns most people off early on.
I learn faster when I can visualize things and concepts but they don't teach it that way...they just throw a bunch of well versed , eloquent pretty words to sound knowledgeble...I've noticed this trend where the faculty will confuse the student if they cannot convince them which is just pitiful..just think of the untapped potential of all those students who can learn physics but cannot due to these kind of tutors...humanity can progress forward at an exponential rate if we could just make a small and simple step of teaching differently...just my thoughts!
Exactly I see mathematics not calculate it
Our thoughts on that matter are on the same vein.
Not just your thoughts that's facts
You are same as me. Maybe let's collab in the future and bring out our own new equations XD
*The question is... Is math related to science?*
Edit, 3 years and 200+ replies later:
To all the smartasses replying: this is a meme, not a serious question. Neil deGrasse Tyson was asked this same question by Katy Perry in 2017.
Yes
Of course
You can't do science without math, so it seems there is an intimate relation. Math IS science.
Math is the language in which many scientific theories are stated and reasoned about. That math does this very well is the subject of a 1960 readable essay by Eugene Wigner. The branch of math called statistics is also the language used to analyse scientific data. But deductive logic is not much used in science. It is also poorly taught, almost entirely in philosophy departments.
Mechanics and special relativity can be derived deductively from some axioms, but nobody teaches those subjects in that way. There are no successful attempts to derive general relativity or QED as deductive theories.
Anonymous yes 90% of science is math there is actually a photosynthesis equation
I'm definitely not proud of being bad at mathematics. My IT teacher at college
found it odd that I was good at coding but bad at mathematics, she felt
the two didn't go together. Notice, I said she thought I was good at coding.
I was good at coding compared to others on the course, but actually good
at coding in general that's another matter.
Dude. Same. My math teacher found it odd that I was good at solving rubiks cubes within a few minutes of holding one. Or quickly put together or take apart puzzles/brain-teasers that seemed to confuse my math teachers and other fellow students; like those crazy 3d shape puzzles that are interconnected.
They seemed to be blown away. As if I was doing magic.
I didn't even need to think. I just saw the pattern or answers infront of me.
But then I'd be stuck in 4th grade math skill level with a two tudors and a side math class for "Special Ed."
Yeah... I was "mentally" considered "retarded" because I didn't "get" common math or complex math.
But I could kick ass at puzzles, and I was outstanding in my writing and art classes. Even my music classes.
But no matter how much I cried and screamed and prayed and tried and tried and tried at doing my math problems; it was like it just hit a wall in my mind and ricocheted. I could stare at a math problem for hours and it might as well have been in another language. Because I just didn't get it.
But the same would happen when I tried to read really bad poems in class. I'd be like "yeah, I'm not gonna sit here and pretend that I understand what "Beyond the trees, a mask of green, light gleamed, rivers screamed, animals become forgotten." is supposed to mean."
Some parts of school were stupid. (Btw, the poem is about machines destroying environments and animals.)
I always did good in science but terrible with math. Interests is the most important part.
I fucking love coding, and mathematics. :D
Can' relate to that but I am great at breaking down and analyzing written information. Then summarizing it, but when it comes to actual math problems. I am a hot mess. I am also good at science and I am very creative. But doesn't seem to help much with math.
@@amiraoblivion689 The way they tried to teach you matj might've been the problem, just saying.
For Full Interview - ruclips.net/video/8TlOSyJjCjc/видео.html
thanks
HOw about you guys come to our schools, and tell our teachers how they should be teaching math because our school systems suck ass. In the past 5 years, I've had only ONE good Math teacher. And even in that class there has been no hands on learning.
Never were we taught how to derive Integrals, how to derive differentiation, how we DERIVE the pythagorean theorem. Never. It's just *here's the formula. plug it in*
+jagjit bhatia Sad, but true.
Maths is a wonderful subject, especially the applied mathematics in Physics. It made high school Physics very easy to understand because I was better at deriving than memorizing. I would say you can definitely explore the online courses on mathematics and science, such as in Coursera and Khan Academy. Take the easy course with no prerequisites and then move to higher level. Also do participate in discussion forums in such courses, if possible. You'll learn a lot in this way. Good luck and have fun learning :-)
Rahil Sethi Thank you so much man! You have no idea how much in need I was of advice... If you don't mind me asking, what are you majoring in?
Whenever I've done math in class, I ask a bunch of questions, "why do we this", "what's the point of that", "why are we doing this instead of that". At first I thought I was just dumb not getting it, but now I realize that it's because we're thought how but never why, and why everything is connected.
exactly, they never teach us why we do what we have to do, we just have to follow a pattern of steps to get to the answer that we have no idea how we got to because we just rely on methods that work and we don't know why because they dont teach us
Ever since primary school I've always been the bottom of my class in maths while being the top of the class in many other subjects.
My mind just goes blank when presented with a maths question, I can do basic maths but after that I just can't do it, I'm not proud of it, I can't count the amount of times I cried before or after a maths test. It's still affecting me now that I'm in college.
Many teachers simply gave up on teaching me the more complicated maths and just left me with the simple stuff.
I've tried and tried and tried but no matter what it just won't stick, so please don't tell me I'm proud of the fact that I can't do maths when in fact it is the exact opposite.
Take a test for dyscalcula
Woah! My experience exactly!
Claire Kelly exactly, for example I'm great at science but when maths is put into the subject I suck
Use Khan academy
Well you can’t be perfect
Math would be easier if teachers gave you all the formulas on the first day. Math in America is taught to trick. Everyone I know that does well in math had tutors
ice bear you think maths is bout formulas?
Yes and no. It's about understanding the formulas rather than using them like a piece of code in object-oriented programming. Abhishek Malik, you think life is about going your own way?
Too many of us limit ourselves by limiting our perspectives and not asking the right questions.
In Greece not getting tutors to teach you anything is the same as signing your failure in academics.
Lol just no
That's proof that everyone has it in them. It's no coincidence that every student that tries hard magically does well in school. Some people are naturally gifted, but there is no reason you can't be great at maths or physics.
I just think most people are bad at math classes, not raw math. I would say school doesn't do a good job at teaching math and getting kids into it.
it moves to fast but I never or rarely had trouble
I always had A 's in math
just confused of how people aren't good at it
+Sunny Patel People bad at maths just lacks the interest in it. 99% of people that say maths or science is hard haven't even got anywhere near the hard part at all.
+Patchy .E. yeah but when you need to pass the class, I'm pretty sure interests won't play a part In it
Sunny Patel That's true. But school level of maths don't really need that much of interest to be good at anyway... A lot of people just lacks the curiosity and willingness to figure out the whys, which is key to learning all maths and science.
+Patchy .E Why should anyone be curious about math or science when they aren't taught anything interesting about it?
School textbooks be like:
"Timmy wants to flip a coin 5 times. Show that both sequences 1,0,0,1,0 and 1,1,1,1,1 are equally probable."
College textbooks be like:
"Let's start with the showcase of the underlying paradoxical structure of this theory, demonstrating that probabilities both exist and don't exist in a deterministic universe, and in this refreshed spirit of nihilistic despair let's descend into a 56 page measure mania where we split a sphere into two spheres that both have the volume of the original sphere. Also in the end this course consists mostly of integrating fucked up functions. "
haha a sphere divided into 2 spheres having same volume as that of the original sphere
College was chill for me. Gradeschool was what had me fucked.
How is that?
Spital Helles see that shouldn’t even be possible
@@strygwr funny thing is that is part of a legit mathematical theorem. Look up the "banach tarski paradox"
is to be WHAT?! i may have a damn leopard in the bushes and im left hangin!
LMAO
100X THIS COMMENT!!
Exactly. 😠
Basically he was about to say that a person always goes for the worst possible explanation- the one that seems most threatening, because if you do just think it's wind and it's not, you're in trouble, but if you think there is a threat and there's not, well nothing happened and not much energy was expended. Dawkins has mentioned this multiple times in regards to religion and how the possibility of God and eternal punishment is very much like a lion in the bushes that might just be wind.
yes, the most prudent thing to do then is to be overly cautious. but there's certainly a balancing act - a sense of risk management, built into our biology and fine-tuned by evolution. otherwise we'd wouldn't move because we'd be constantly fabricating potential hypotheticals of what could kill us if we did move. therefore it's not about going for the worst possible explanation, but it does indeed lean heavily onto cautiousness.
It also depends on who is teaching, not the person who is being taught. Imagine a boring teacher that only give theory and equations, but won't show you the wonders that you can do with it.
Vim
I know a bunch of students who find math quite easy compared to many other subjects, but they're from a European private school with 8 ppl in their class
maybe more people would care about mathematics if the teachers actually cared about teaching it instead of receiving their paycheque.
If that be the case why aren't people bad at everything. Why are people that teach history more motivated?
Osiris Rex but maths is a more complexed subject. So teaching maths and history are different categories. You can just read a history book and understand it but maths problems requires someone that is trained in maths to help you do it and it takes a lot of time . They are two different things.
@@bosschickchina3281 saying you can learn history by reading a book is not exactly true, some people can see a math problem and solve it instantly. Or read new information about math and understand this. And history is very complex in its own right. It probably is as compex as math but in different way
They're literally having a conversation about "how do dumb people live?" lol.
Stefan Rijos No they are not. They are having a conversation about why people don't like maths and why we as humans are inherently illogical, even though we think we are. Noone is logical, because we didn't evolve that way. They are laying out a conversation in this video about why people dislike and aren't interested in math.
@@INGIE32 ya , so basically people who are ignorant of maths they are dumb , lol
SAHEEL SINGH I never said that, but given that you seem offended by that statement and that you are misunderstanding what I am saying, when I clearly said something else, leads me to believe that maybe that premise is true. Maybe you should rethink what dumb and smart means. Being smart has nothing to do with knowing everything, but if you do actually believe that, maybe you are a dumbass.
The Police Me or Saheel?
@@INGIE32 pay attention to what they are saying, at first they asked this question, then went on about humans being illogical, you do get what they're implying right? Sarcasm and Doublespeak?
I think this entire analysis is completely wrong. If you take a look at what kind of maths people suck at, it's the stuff that you learn in the elementary and high school, which is basically accountant maths, tedious repetition and high sensitivity of it all to dyslexia or simply making some tiny mistake in copying something from the previous line. When people say they suck at math, or that they are even proud of it, they want to say that they suck at pointless tedious things. Indeed, you need to be an especially boring kind of person to enjoy this kind of thing, and it has precious little to do with logic.
All the interesting stuff in math happens later on, after people already got thoroughly disgusted by accountant math.
This is why I prefer doing complex problems. It repulses simpler individual problems that could be done in the same amount of time; which would be tedious and lack context between them. And since all the sub-problems are more interconnected and in context to the bigger problem, it's more subjectively meaningful to the problem-solver. And to some much more pleasant to accomplish. :D
What do you think?
C0deH0wler You might be right. Personally, I want to be able to clearly see the applicability, for instance I explain limits and complex numbers to my kid as ways of getting around certain seemingly unsolvable problems, so that he can see what it's for, or vectors as a way of simply adding forces together. In my opinion, just throwing tedious numerical problems at kids without explaining the clear usage case of those mathematical tools is a great way to make them hate maths, and not only maths because most education seems to follow a similar pattern, leading to the conclusion of "I'm never going to need this".
Man. I just have to say to myself again, I'm immensely grateful that I live and was born in a place like New Zealand. I'm just spoilt, man :/ I wish I was a paragon Reaper from Mass Effect.
I kinda like your point, I wouldn't say they are entirely wrong tho. the people i know including me, started to love math when we realized that to solve a math problem you can manipulate what you have in front of you, and you are not restrain. I steel don't know my times table by heart, but i'm steel beating my son at connect 4. But by curiosity you don't think that boring first part is necessary to enjoy math later? (personalty i have a hard time deciding)
What I think: the fun stuff should run in tandem with the tedious stuff. Reasoning: there will be a net positive. But that net amount really is depending on if you find at least a couple of things that excite you in maths. You just have to explore to find them ;D
The question asked is not really answered.
you're right it isn't but it is a difficult question to answer that needs further analysis.
yeah it's kind of hinted at that illogical thinking was selected for in our past... i think that's more of argument for superstition than it is mathematics though. My guess would be it's probably 90% cultural, ie nature, why we consider math harder than any other subject.
If everyone is bad at math, nobody is bad at math. "Bad" is relative. The reason mathematicians tend to think people are bad at math is because their difference is skill level to the common person is so great. This is simply because people who think more logically, or otherwise "get it more", are more encouraged to use their skills and improve their math ability. Thinking about it from a governments perspective, it makes sense. People who are not so natural will have a more difficult time getting to use math in their lives. So we get the impression that people are "bad", when really some people are just insanely good.
To answer the question poised in the title, it is a cultural thing largely. Part of the reason why Japan has such high math scores in school is because there it is viewed as something everyone ought to be good at, so no one gives up on it before starting it. Studies show that normally people are average at math and the only way to improve is through practice.
That's because most famous scientist aren't exactly the smartest, instead they're the ones that are the best at talking.
I think people don't like math because of how abstract it seems.
Logic is abstract. For an argument to be logically valid, it must demonstrate how certain known facts support/prove a conclusion, and the whole process is abstract.
Yet, I never see people disliking logic.
People aren't made to learn logic formally, but if they were they would dislike it for the same reasons they dislike math.
I love maths and teaching it to other people, check out my channel for more if you wish :)
I like math because of that
My lowest grades in school were in algebra, trig and calculus. My highest was geometry. We had a quiz where we had to find the center of an incomplete circle and I was the only student in 4 classes to get it right. Geometry just made sense to me because it's founded in something tangible. Many years later, I understand algebra much better than I did in school, calculus is still completely foreign, and as a machinist, I have to use geometry and trig on a regular basis...but I still have to look up how to do the calculations when it comes to trig. It's simply not naturally intuitive to me like geometry.
Going straight to the exercises before understanding the concepts properly, getting ready-made solutions on black boards just after reading the questions and never asking why is it done the way it is are what makes math a monster to students. Teachers complete huge and deep pieces of math that are in your syllabus in just a few days. But to learn them one needs to think about small concepts and every concepts until he/she understand all of it. Don't see solutions first, try to solve them yourself it can take even days but works. Over time your problem solving ability gets better. Problems start to take less. And the feeling that you solved it all by yourself relying on logic inside you is amazing.
My calculus 2 professor made me step my math game up
Eric Manso lol I loved Calc 2. such an easy class.
Eric Manso hopefully youll have a career where you will use it.. because if you dont.. youll lose it
lol I know im going to lose it b/c i forgot most of my fundamentals
Orpheus 010 easy lol ur miss be really good in that type of math
Eric Manso nobody gives a fuck! Nerd
this video stopped when it started getting interesting. 😡
There's the full interview link in the description ! You should watch it !
Ya I should've known better than the think NT or RD would ever talk for just 5 minutes. Let alone both of them.
That's exactly like maths. the way it is taught today. You stop it when it starts getting interesting :3
ikr wtf
yup
The simple reason why people have great difficulty with mathematics is that we process information in pictures first, not in numbers first, and pictures are attached to words and names. Logic has NOTHING to do with numbers and everything to do with how our brain is wired to process and comprehend information. Pictures immediately create images in the mind that help makes subjects much easier to grasp. Numbers, for the most part, are abstractions. When you see the number one you immediate see a mental image of a single object (e.g. an apple, a car, a lemon, etc.) For example, programmers assign numbers to words called variables. Astronomers give names or words to new astronomy discoveries. Biologists provide new species of marine life with names. Even ancient written languages began as pictures instead of words. And so on and so forth.
What's the point? Everyone is logical and able to be logical, but expressing logic happens in different ways. Making the argument that humans are mostly illogical because they aren't good at math feels arrogant, especially when it comes from scientists would live in the world of mathematics. Neil Degrasse Tyson and Richard Dawkins simply have the ability to quickly create mental pictures for math and mathematics constructs that others cannot. However, this doesn't necessarily make they are more logical. It only means their logic is different.
Excellent observation! I believe the new AI that google developed that beat one of the top Go players, uses visual representations and simulations to answer its problems.
Seems more like "humans are logical at some things, but not all" is what you're saying.
Is this stuff from dual coding theory (Paivio)? My bet isn't on it. And keep in mind that science doesn't expect equality, when making comparisons. I'm quite surprised with so many people taking them arrogant.
+DM584 I'm not talking about reading or literature. I was referring to how the human mind works. The two aren't mutually exclusive. Humans do not think in numbers. We think in pictures. This thought process is one of the primary reasons why in the Bible we find an incredible amount of word-pictures. God understands humankind and how they think. For example, even though God is a God of Math (as seen in life via the golden ratio, fibonacci sequence, pi, and more), it was his choice not to use mathematical terms like Pi and 3.14159265359 when describing the shape of the earth. At Isaiah 40:22 this simple word picture appears: "There is One who dwells above the circle of the earth". People can logically comprehend a circle.
Do you believe in the bible, or are you bringing it up just as evidence that the men who wrote it thought in pictures?
I failed out of my senior year (12th grade) math class. Entered college as a film student, vowing never to take another math class. I'm now a grad student in applied math. Tell everyone you know about edX, Coursera, etc. at the least. The hard part is motivating people to want to learn (anything in general, honestly).
I'm so proud of you dude
Im also in same situation although i didnt fail 12th grade but i want to be a Data Analyst i left engineering after 2nd year I wanna get back to it and conquer it
I wanna finish what i had started
You can only be good at things you spend time learning and practicing. You could say everyone is good at math in terms of counting to ten, addition and subtraction ect. Not everyone is good at algebra and calculus or probabilities. But most people don't spend any time studying those mathematical subjects.
It's not only about hard work, it's also about a genetical gift. I know people who never studied for their math tests and got better grades than the geeks who studied several hours a week.
+harrythedevil True, I had this friend back in the day with photographic memory, he was a god at math.. I wrecked him in english tho:)
Sure. And some people can beat experienced chess masters in their young teens. Some people just pick up stuff quicker than others.
+yak55x cooooooooooooooooompletely petty and irrelevant. All you did was pretend the colloquial connotations they used were somehow not understood (that by math they meant more complex math or higher level math) and nitpick language.
And again, it was understood that when they speak of the people who are bad at math they are speaking of those who have tried it before.
Are you mental? You're socially awkward arn't you? It's ok, it doesn't come naturally to everyone. Spend more time practicing.
i was bad at math, now i'm studying inorganic/physical chemistry and math seems as necessary as air to me.
I hope the same happens to me since I'm studying Physics.
+CaVe_DoVah How is it?I'm just curios because I'm also very intersted in physics.
Haha lemme tell you, I decided to go for Physics cos my teacher has worked at NASA and made Physics the only subject I cared about. xD There is alot of math, however it is possible to understand all of that with a bit of effort and taking notes and so on. You gotta work alot however, I have to do 2 big exercises every week (as a homework) as well as a big protocol for the experiments we make. The protocol takes about 10 hours, and the rest maybe 1 or 2 each, cos you work in groups and therefore split the work. I don't wanna lie to you, it's pretty exhausting and you won't get too much sleep if you care about any other activity excepts for working... However the career options will be worth the grind. Every. Single. Hour.
sidewaysfcs0718 then why does multiplying two negatives make a positive. shits not right man. not cool
Kevin Agee
Lol wot.
Awww, you cut the video just before Richard was about to say "BATMAN!"
lol Naw, not Batman. He was going to say -ware of leprechauns. "The important thing is to beware of leprechauns." Those little bastards get you every time.
Well, that's old Dawkins for ya - always going on and on about the leprechauns...
Exactly what I was thinking. "Has to be Batman"
I got an 11% on my test today in algebra 2. I've tried super hard and stayed after school to get caught up but I just can't grasp it. My mind does not want to cooperate.
Don't talk like that. You can get better
Got 0 percent?
I have a test right now in 5 minutes and fucking hell I've been reviewing for hours but I only understand little of it.
@@jamesmccloud7535 Try getting a private tutor. That usually helps.
Well, I got 12%. I tried so so so hard all year but I am still trying. Even if i don't pass my GCSE, i will know that i at least tried really hard.
I find this really condescending: While it's great that Neil deGrasse Tyson and Richard Dawkins are super awesome in mathematics, what they don't talk about is how math is presented and taught to us by the so-called educators. There are many of us who try very hard to understand math, but the truth is that there are educators who can't lead a pack of dogs to meat.
Nail on the head my friend. They didn't take into account how an individual is most likely to learn their relationship to it.
Dawkins as usual is up himself... I know plenty of people that wouldn't care that they only have a passing knowledge of Shakespeare or Byron, for the same reason that it doesn't much impact someones day to day life if they aren't aware of calculus or literature or spanish for instance and without someone to enthuse and fire their passion then why would they take the time to delve deep into a subject.
I think the point of the whole discussion was lost due to their inability to comprehend that, but I think that is a subject for a whole other video.
I find it laughable that you actually gave yourself a thumbs up...
I wouldn't really go straight to blaming the teachers, the class set-up has a greater impact then the teachers. I tutored math through HS/college, as well as working as a student instructor.
One on one, or even one on a few, makes it much easier to vary your teaching approach and focus on individuals.
But as class size grows and the levels of students increase in variety your forced to optimize your approach/explanation to hit the largest # of students possible. This is what really causes the most problems in math education.
The teacher can stop to answer questions but not all of them. Often they do not have the time answer a question to a students full understanding without sacrificing the education of the others in the course.
In college this is what office hours and other academic support services are for. Hs is trickier, the best solution being smaller class sizes.
TLDR While there are bad teachers, our poor math education rest largely on the factory size classes we use.
KCAwesomeness Cull the herd of math illiterates and then lament how the US math educational system is failing students at all grade levels...
I hated math until I discovered Physics and that's the way I got back to my X. lol
Haha same!!
+Inebriatd Physics? Not exceptionally, in my experience.
same as me.. physics is awesome.. it impossible to love physics without knowing math...
Or physics discovered me lol
Ikr, I hated math because they were pointless. Until I had to use them in physics and chemistry.
I almost had to repeat a year in high school because I was very bad at math. Now I study in the best engineering faculty in my country, I realised that math is easy when you pay attention and practice a lot. Some people realise this later in his life.
Cruxair
LOL! Same thing here xD been lazy in high school and had Cs and Ds in Math, had a lot of Fs, too, and had to take extra tests in order not to fail and repeat the year. Now I study Applied Mathematics at the best university in my country 😂
There is one of Einstein's quotes: "There are two kinds of people in the world. First ones are those who love Mathematics, and the other ones are those who still did not realize that they love Mathematics."
You cannot accomplish anything valuable if you don't put an effort in it, if you don't practice it some hours every day.
I wouldn't be able to speak English with perfect American accent (that's what I've been told by some Americans and Canadians I've met) if I haven't been listening to, reading, and speaking it with myself and others every single day. Same thing with German or anything else that I've been good at so far.
I'm working super hard, study and still failing...my bad but you use the formula for Lightspeed a lot ? To build a house ? To calculate the amount money your franchise make ? No ? Then ...
Can I ask for some tips to learn Mathematics, if there are any other than rote learning.... I am pretty smart in most sciences, and I have an understanding of physics... however when it comes to the pure math of it all, I feel like it can be a foreign language.... Although when looking at Physics formulas it kinda makes a bit more sense due to the subjectivity (?) of the variable/function....
school teaches us how to pass exams in the worst way possible,instead of explaining the concept of maths to us or how to develope a creative and progressive way of thinking
It's all about funding. Schools who do well on the exams get more funding from the government, so schools are encouraged to ram everything into the students' short-term memory rather than actually teaching the subject. Memorizing the quadratic formula and pythagoras' theorem is all that matters, no need to understand how or why they work.
It's simple really
>poor teachers
>poor teaching members
>most people don't find it interesting or relevant in their day to day lives
I'd say those are the main reasons. Lots of smug maths students/grads in here are going on about how people are "durr too lazy to appreciate the beauty of maths". Lol right.
"most people don't find it interesting or relevant in their day to day lives"
That's completely wrong though. Math is extremely helpful for organization skills.
Jonathan Haroun He's saying most people dont find it necessary. He never said it wasn't necessary
Tell me how something like trigonometric identities is ever going to be relevant outside of school. Yet its the kind of stuff they grade you on and that determines your future.
Vindo I see the mathematics as mostly impractical IRL, I.e. Trigonometric Ratios, but the logical thinking,
step-by-step processes, critical thinking and problem solving skills behind mathematics is practical. Essentially, most maths is just an exercise, training your brain in these certain skills.
Agreed, everyone says "i'm never going to use this". Fact is, they struggle with basic daily math as a result.
I was good at math until they added the abc's in it
haha, good one...Do you think algebra is unnatural? I would like to get other people's views on this..
Personally, I was not very happy with basic arithmetic; it's a lot of dry number crunching and the odds of getting the result wrong was high...Algebra actually made Mathematics more palatable for me..
Krishna the moment it got confusing and teachers stopped taking time to explain things enough to be understood, i stopped learning math and started to suck at it
That's sad..Mathematics should be taught like a language....Just like learning new languages, when we start out doing Mathematics we fumble which is quite natural...We need able hands to guide us especially through that initial period so that we gain at least "intermediate" proficiency in it..Whether we should go on to become an "advanced user" of Mathematics is then up to us, again just like learning another language..
Krishna: Agreed on what you said about algebra, and if you look at number theory for example, it uses algebra and analysis much more then simply dry number crunching/basic arithmetic.
+ Evan Urena,
I think I'm still quite unnatural at basic arithmetic as I get nervous doing mental calculations....Ironically, I'm an engineer!...I started to like Mathematics more only in middle school even though I wasn't poor at it before that...That was because in middle school, they introduced equations and logic which isn't just numbers... Pure arithmetic with long divisions and multiplications always invited careless mistakes...Careless mistakes are less with algebraic equations..But I see that many people like arithmetic more than algebra.. So it depends on the person I guess..
Wow. Dawkins went a whole 5 minutes without bashing religion. He must have been tired that day.
***** Nah. I don't think I will.
Yeah, sadly the dumbest people are the loudest, even if all they produce is white noise.
That's because the clip was cut off before he got to make his point.
XD, nope, literally 30 seconds into the full clip (right after this video cuts off) he bashes on a guy for his religion.
Cool story bro. Tell me more about how many of Dawkins's biology books have you read.
I don't know why I am good at English subject but bad at Math!
TripleTeddy Gaming same I’ve made a mastery in ela but math ever since I left 7 grade it’s been hard
same. im so good at every subjects but not math
Your better with words maybe
I Am too
Same
Dude, i've been in college for the past 2 years with dozen of subjects passed without any difficulty. But analysis math, i failed twice
Say no more bro..... Analysis is brutal.....
Hopefully I didn't fail in any analysis paper but just clear them with pass marks
Applied math is easy but too long 😂 I get lazy to solve them
Analysis 🔪
Feelings are not "illogical"
they're mindstates that inspire action in response to perceptions and memories.
Sometimes they're distorted by false perceptions and traumatic memories, but, when when functioning normally, our feelings about situations, environments, or people keep us alive.
They are illogical, but that doesn't mean they aren't useful. Don't get those two things confused.
Jim, why do you think feelings are illogical?
It's not my opinion, it's an objective fact that is obvious when you just look at the definitions of the words. Logic is a deliberate thought process. Emotions are automatic, involuntary, instinctual reactions to stimuli. They are two entirely separate processes that serve entirely different purposes.
+Jim are not emotions syllogistic?
Ken Bell Well, if you actually understood the definition of that word instead of using it to try looking smart, you would know that the answer is obviously no, they're not. I don't know how many times I have to drill this into your head, but an emotion is not reached through rational, conscious thought. It's an automatic response. It's not a complicated concept, man. You don't decide to be angry. You don't decide to be sad. You don't decide to be nervous. You have zero control over what emotions you feel or when, and therefore cannot use any rational process to feel them. I can't explain it any more clearly than that, so if you still don't understand, don't bother replying, because I won't waste my time on this any further.
As a student, I have experienced 2 main issues with mathematics in my class.
1. Most students don't understand why they are studying these things, they believe that things like statistics are completely useless. The same goes for topics like derivatives, logarithms, integrals, etc. .
2. None of the other students in my class like doing math. They don't see the beauty in it. When they are faced with numbers like e, they don't understand why that number is so significant and beautiful. When I tell them that it's special because e^x is it's own derivative, they don't see how that's special because really, they don't even know what a derivative really means. When faced with things like fractals they don't see the beauty in them because they don't understand them. It's quite sad, really.
I find integrals to be enlightening when it comes to mathematics application to real life, considering with triple integration you can derive all geometry formulas on your own with virtually no effort or memorization. Not to mention any other line, surface or volume possible.
Additionally Trigonometry is perhaps the *most* every day applicable and significant mathematics one could possibly know. And are even more enlightening than integration imo.
If a student fails to see the application of either of these 2 I would be surprised and think that maybe they need more word problems when doing the math.
A lot of the other math stuff can be very specific and it is understandable to claim it is useless in terms of everyday situations.
As in, "I will never use this again, so what is the point" excuse.
glblank Yes exactly, most people are lazy and that's their answer to a lot of things, including mathematics. The karma is that the ones who are too lazy like won't get to use those awesome things because they don't get a high enough degree!
Ben P. Oh yes, integrals are awesome. We just started with integrals in school so they haven't seen a lot of the things you talked about. This might change however as the questions move from simple things like turning acceleration into velocity to more interesting things.
One thing I absolutely hate is that my teacher hasn't said the word "integral" once, she calls it an "anti-derivative". I do understand why she calls it that but you know, after a couple of lessons she should really start naming it properly with the right notation, etc.
I'm not really concerned though when it comes stuff like this. The ones who really do have a passion for mathematics are also the ones who get to do great things, especially where I live. As long as this is true, I'm satisfied. Can you imagine... the next Ramanujan not being discovered because he was born at the wrong at the wrong time. What a shame that would be.
Covalence Dust i actually hate the term 'anti-derivative' lol sounds goofy to me, and i agree with you, integral/integration is the proper term and easier to say.
Yes by the time you are finished with calculus 3 I think you will love integrals, they are reasonably easy and very powerful, especially since you will be swapping between cartesian, polar and spherical coordinates which can make a harder problem super easy.
This is an interesting conversation. I actually think the fact that many people struggle with math indicates that it's generally taught very poorly, not that it represents the illogicality of our minds. And even though Dawkins seems to think nobody brags about being bad at Shakespeare, I would say that's a similar example of a subject often taught incorrectly, which turns students off of it (sometimes for life).
Prideful ignorance? Really? People have a tendency to laugh at their own insecurities. From my own personal experience, I've come to despise math from several terrible instructors post 7th grade. Given that those years are rather key to basic algebra, geometry, calculus and so forth, everything after that just frustrates me further based on previous experience.
I thought the same thing Tyson had a little more understanding but Dawkins treating it that way was a little irritating. It seems to come pretty naturally to him and it seems that he's ignoring the possibility that it's naturally harder for others and that those dismissals are simply dismissals and not coping mechanisms
I found it interesting how they changed the topic to logic, and yet.they never really answered the video's question. They just melted away from patronizing poor math students into a discussing evolution as per always...nice.
Rush Rage I know.....I wasted so much of my life right now. They always doing this shit,never answering the question.
Watch the video again...
They concluded that due to logical thinking is not the best for survival, we have evolved in a way that logical thinking doesn't come naturally. Math is essentially logic, they noted that for the discussion that will be the generalization.
Why should they answer a question which was made up by the guy who cut this small fraction of the original video ? The topic was not what the title here said and furthermore they didn’t had the intention to answer why people suck at math. But if you would have watched and listened close enough Neil said at the beginning that math is just perfectly logical but the human brain is not!
Neurofied Yamato
I’m glad I’m not the only one to catch that.🤨 intelligence takes work.
Well, the video was titled way after it is recorded. Blame the uploader. 🙄
And that's the problem (another one, besides his elitism) with Dawkins & Co.
Instead of counting all the possible factors that could lead to mathematics being such an unpopular subject, they jump right to the conclusion it must be something in our brain, an "inability" that stems from our biological setup. I was always bad at mathematics in school, so I do feel like this is aimed at me. But my problems with the subject certainly can't be reduced to "it was too hard". I had no problems thinking logically. On the contrary. I remember, there was a small period of time, where I suddenly became interested in maths. And that was the field of logic. I can't remember, what we did, exactly. It's called propositional logic (Aussagenlogik) and it reminded me more of puzzles than usual math. And I loved that. But that was the exception. Most of the things we learned simply didn't seem in any way relevant or interesting. So it seems to me, like there is more to this problem than just: "WE" are naturally bad at it. But Dawkins immediately jumps to our ancestors and his bio-determinism, as if the connection to people that have been dead for millenia was more relevant than the connection to the people that surround us and who are still alive.
I think you are right. Wasn't there an Article about the myth of "I'm not a math person"?
Just to help making your statements true: I was one of the worst students in my class when it came to math back in high school. Today I am studying applied mathematics in a prestigious university. But how did that come to be? Genetics? Magic? No, just a good private teacher who sat down with me once a week to teach math from the start. This bio-determinism thing is not a valid argument at all.
***** Sorry, that wasn't my point. I was reinforcing Gandaleon's arguments.
Anyway, I also agree that math is like a language. I'd dare to say it is a way to decode the universe btw
Well said. I, for one, have always maintained essentially the opposite theory from Dawkins, which is that humans are *inherently logical* if presented with a cause and effect relationship between events. I got my undergrad in math, and tutored for over a decade of my life. During that time, I frequently took students that previously always had trouble with math and were failing their courses to being some of the top performers in the class. My teaching theory centers around the idea that if they are struggling, some "link/s" in the chain of logical events is/are missing for them. Either they weren't focused when the teacher said it, or the teacher skipped over it, or they just simply forgot it. But if you can care enough to retain what each symbol means and how it relates to the other symbols, there is no reason why a normally-functioning human brain shouldn't be able to understand math.
In your case, you didn't retain because it wasn't interesting to you. Your brain discarded the information almost immediately. Nothing wrong with that; it only lends credence to our points that you are not illogical because you can't do math very well, you just don't care about the relationship of the symbols that seem so far removed from your everyday life.
Today,. I have a subscription to the Numberphile youtube channel. It's not much, but it shows how my opinion of the subject has changed. XD
I'm glad that I was taught Maths by my father since childhood. He always used creative examples for teaching. Ofcourse I'm not a mathematics champion but still I realize I'm better than most of the people.
Because of him
one of the biggest regrets of my life has been how bad I was in math.
i mean practice is a thing, you couldve done that
kevinG banfield practice doesn't always work. Atleast for me it doesnt
Do i fucking know you? Then you dont pratice enough. Just pay attention on class and practice at home .
The Chosen One no im assuming you don't know him and I know for a fact that you don't know what's best for him but whats best for you is just to shut the fuck up
Braylon Hollowell omg his nams is do i fing know him
Actually I am proud I don't know much about Shakespeare. I am proud that I did not stupidly waste my time learning about that useless garbage.
Oh hey, another moron.
You would be surprised to learn, then, that many common phrases originate from Shakespeare.
Blew J I appreciate your honesty, Blew J. I see your point. :)
To everyone else, however, nice tries at bait.
Who cares? How is that in any way a useful piece of information? You can't do anything with that knowledge. Math on the other hand is responsible for all the modern marvels that are around us.
You'll learn more about humans, emotions, human logic, human thinking, human relationships, etc. from Shakespeare than you ever will from math
How to learn math
1) Download and study the 5th or 6th grade math book and watch videos if you don't get something and look for the answers online. It has examples and explanation, all you need.
The rules people talk about are logical enough and requires little memorization while the famous "math is a chain" phrase is simply more detailed and next level of things.
So if you think that person is pulling numbers out of nowhere, that's probably because you have missed years but core is simple and by actually studying and solving things on the book, you gain understanding and numbers start to make sense and you gain familiarity and capability to learn more
That is all, start with elementary last year or middle school first year (5th and 6th year in my country)
Yes but why would you want to? It won't make you more popular. It won't help you win the football game, or get you on the cheerleading squad.
@@zdcyclops1lickley190 why are you here?
Most people here are from math background /related to math.
They aren't talking about football!
Ever heard of the word analysis?
Every game requires pretty analysis that's when math comes swinging in!
We need math everywhere my dude, it just that you're unaware of it . If everyone starts thinking like you and stop studying math! who will build the cars/motors u travel on, who'll make the gadgets you use!
Even the food we eat....... Farmers have to analyze everything(math) like how much fertilizer to put on the soil,whats the ph level of the soil etc to grow crops on large scale.
Everything is related to math in one way or the other!
math is definitely gonna help me get over depression
@@thebeatunleashed9509 I wish man. I don't know the way out and I'm usually resilient as fuck. I don't think there's any brain region stimulation type of crap to solve everything either, definitely not the deeper issue. Just don't die to depression, maybe one of us will find something that works
The problem is how teachers teach student . There's a new generation.
I have an intresting theory on why we fair badly in mathematics. It has to do with
1) lack of empathy from mathematics tutors
2) Assumption..,that everyone in that particular class has earned to be there and that they are at par, in terms of logic reasoning with the tutor.
Why aren't we bad at history or writing or sports by the same amount?
I may be bad at math but I can punch a nerd in the stomach like a pro.
Bash some nerds
A common defense mechanism for the intellectually challenged.
right after this we should go bash some nerds, cause I gotta get it out of my system.
*****
youtube - bash some nerds. it'll change your life jabroni
Later, Its us nerds who will be sleeping with your wives to promote your mediocre ass, while we are 10K/ day CEO's
As a person who was bad at math in school, yet has come to understand it better now, we are definitely wired for math!! Our subconscious minds do extreme calculations all day long. Most people just have a hard time taking that subconscious info, and using it consciously, usually because they think that it’s supposed to be hard. I thought it was about memorizing the written numbers and mnemonic tricks. Later, I realized that if I see the values as pictures of amounts, then the math is easy.
What i understood is, We survive on illogical thought and we progress on logical thought
A black guy talks about science, no thanks.
@@seanleith5312 are you racist?
@@Nikodem2008 Probably stems from his jealousy
I think some of it has to do with self-deprecating humor as a way to let people know that we're aware of our faults, but we're not bothered by them. We do it about our physical appearances, personal habits, and our lack of skills or knowledge in certain areas. Plus, I think math seems harder than other subjects, because subjects like history or geography involve a lot of memorization, and with memorization, we don't remember all the things that we forgot; so no one is really "bad at" history so much as find ourselves more often or less often hearing about some historical event and saying, "Oh, I didn't know that," whereas with math, it's a skill that we're stuck being faced with on a daily basis. There are also things like art or sports, but people who are bad at those things usually just don't bother with them. (If you're bad at painting, you can get away with just not painting, but if you're bad at balancing a checkbook, you don't have a choice but to keep trying.)
I just made a similar comment, i used to love Dawkins but his bias becomes more apparent with statements like these.
Or hire someone who will do it for you.
and love requires the person to be perfect in your eyes. ofc ofc.
Historically, they laughed because they were basically saying, "As if I would be heartbroken about not being a boring Nerd LoL".... But, luckily, Learning and even being a "nerd" became more respected.....not enough but it is better now!! Bully Kids used to be like, "Why you trying to do Math....You a Fag??"
maybe that is because it is presented in the wrong way.
When I was beggining my journey in schol, I used to get things easily. Than, when I could fully understand something, teachers used to say: '' Don't worry. That is just the beginning. Someday, it will be hard''. Imagine telling that to a 7 years old child. The kid will get scared when studying simple algebrae
I'm glad I am good at it
Q: Why are most people bad at ?
A: Because "being good at something" means "being better than most people".
I don't think that "good" is supposed to mean exceptional in this context, rather capable.
Nearly everyone is capable of eating, but fewer people are capable of doing math. The question is why most people aren't able to handle math.
Very good point.
Pavel, I don't agree. Being good at something doesn't mean being better than the average, being better than the majority as you imply. Nearly everyone on the planet are good at walking, breathing. They can be good and not better than most.
Well, if you compare them to an Olympic champion in racewalking, then most people would be bad at walking. Likewise, from Richard Dawkins' point of view, most people are bad at math.
+Pavel Zubkov. Hmmm, your argument including definition of good is different from mine.
The thing is that math just get interesting when you learning astronomy or modern physics or something that really hook you up. Otherwise it is just so abstract
math is a language. some languages are harder to learn
+Joe Cassara one thing that a math teacher in middle school said to me, that forever changed my mind about the subject being difficult, was;
"Math doesn't get harder as you move forward with it, it just gives you more options to figure out the same problems"
Obviously there are some problems that require specific formulas or rules, but in the overall scheme of the terror that a lot of younger people consider math to be...this made it my experience very easy to deal with, and in fact made me better at it. Possibly a placebo effect or an actual eye opener, either way it totally washed away my fears.
+C-J Kim good to see at least recently you people could study math .
the Greece much years before you people even get civilized was the land of mathematics , science , they discovered all those things you study at school , you need to thank the white race for it and such a great service they gave to not only a dumb like you but to the human kinds. At least respect those great mathematicians (who I tell you 99% of them were whites and be sure about it) , those who gave you some opinions today about what math is
and do you know what it is ?
what did you study in university ?
do you even have any degree ?
or are you a little kid ?
idiot
Java, Java is also hard to learn.
Java, Java is also hard to learn.
+Chris Rawls (The Alpha Route) java is so versatile tho! J2EE is still very popular
Wait, who pressed pause?....
The reason people don't talk about how bad they are at Shakespeare is because it's irrelevant. People don't have to recite lines from his plays on a daily basis, but they do encounter math.
***** It's a learned social device to dull the perceived awkwardness of not knowing.
I haven't one encountered a trigonometric identity when walking down the street, I have however encountered people, and Shakespeare is about people. Those who are good at math are often terrible at analysing texts such as Shakespeare.
Do you see the structures around you, then you have seen trig. These structures need math to even stand.
Besides from basic maths (adding, subtracting, multiplication etc.) I have never encountered it besides from the mundane high school maths classes I'm forced to go to.
@Dem0n Yes you do, you just deal with it using other skills. I know teachers are not always the best at conveying the beauty of mathematics, but it is all around you.
I think it's because most of us learn math without any particular context. Math is a universal language and all languages are easier to be learned when it has some context, like the concept of language acquisition. We just learn about numbers and rules.
I think people don't like maths because the majority of it, apart from arithmetic, seems so disconnected from most of the average person's survival needs. Of course, that applies completely differently to our overall quality of life as a society. It's also hard to talk about in an everyday conversation, without pen and paper, and therefore doesn't serve as a good way to connect with people either, unlike music or art.
this is a very good point. I wonder what their response to this would be....
I think you'll find that's what they touch on at the end of the video.
I agree and want to add that I think people don"t realize how HUGE of an effect maths has on their life, how much easier it has become to live because of all the science and math we've discovered.
I also feel that most subjects are easier to apply in real life than the stuff we learn in math class thus we get more practice with them. The stuff we learn in math class is automatically sent to the brains recycling bin
I'd suggest that its more a matter of people don't understand the meaning of mathematics or of logic, or even how often or indirectly they use it in a day and don't credit their own ability to work with complex math problems instinctively, they simply put are just ignorant of the mathematical talents they possess and put it down to something else.
I AM NOT proud to say it. But I can't do maths. I neither boast nor laugh about it. Should I be ashamed? I tried for years as a schoolboy, understood nothing, and got the worst marks imaginable.It was frightening and humiliating.
Later, as an adult over the years I have bought about half a dozen books that claimed to "explain maths from scratch", that said maths could be fun etc. I bought those books not because I had to any more, so it wasn't out of fear, but out of curiosity. I have got nowhere - I usually give up after three or four pages.
I can do basic arithmetic, but not the rest. If you gave me an equation to solve and told me I'd be shot if I couldn't do it, I'd wait for my execution. Simple. And I am NOT proud: rather, I'm hurt, by those who accuse me of somehow doing it deliberately. Believe me, I tried.
are you from u.s.a? it seems to me that people from u.s.a are very bad at math. maybe its something in your culture.
Yup culture thing, they all have peanut sized brains. The ow-so-proud-USA where about every high educated person is an immigrant :)
"...understood nothing..." this is the exact problem. I don't believe that you don't understand anything. I know a lot of people who are bad at maths and science and they mostly have this in common: They are really bad at identifying the exact problem they have.
They mostly say "I don't understand topic xyz" or even worse "i don't understand maths" and give up.
I don't think that anyone does not understand any math because some of it is intuitive. There is also not a single person in the world that "understands maths" because the field is just too big to understand everything.
You need to figure out exactly which step you are not understanding. It is most of the times one small step which makes you "not understand" a certain topic. So you need to identify this step and then try hard to get enough different explainations so you understand the step or you can at least identify a smaller step you don't understand.
Also when there are examples you should not be thinking "ok so when i have this exact exercise i will do what is done in this example". You should try to understand the underlying algorithms and concepts so you know exactly why steps in the example are made in the way they are.
i could write a lot more but what would probably help the best would be to find someone really good at maths and ask him or her about the mindset this person uses to understand complicated things. Not ask this person for explaining a certain topic but rather how to learn.
It's ok buddy, your brain is not made for that. its all about the genes. Just focus on other things in life, maybe youre good at communication or something.
Denn Foo is just mad at his little Asian penis 😃
And for the record, I'm American and could school your ass in integral calculus ✌
math is a language. hard to be good at a language you never use.
Math is a language you only use if you choose to do so, only increasing in scope the more you choose to explore it. That's also part of the problem because it often goes against the path of least resistance, which is the one humans are most willing to take. To choose to do something you don't need to do to survive is often considered an unnecessary burden to those who don't really want to. I decided I wanted to, at the very least for a time if I stop after this year, but it has become harder and harder to see the value in progressing as it leads further and further away from being necessary for survival, even at a level where advanced math is considered and the career I have decided is worth my time.
I hope it's alright that I wrote a chunk of text here, I guess I was somewhat inspired to start talking. This video and some of the comments just got me thinking. I've always said math is a language, so it made your comment particularly stand out to me.
***** there are truths. and they are described with math. it's like the difference between a numeral and a number. very few people on this planet even know there is a difference.
***** pretty much. I mean... we specialize because it's more efficient to work together and specialize. And the result is that each of us knows something others don't. So yeah
Math is not a language. Math is concepts. The problem of people is that they think that symbols are what makes math what it is: No. I can tell you that one can do math without the use of any symbols at all. Each symbol represent a concept. And those symbols are just made to cut on writing. Sometime those symbols help with calculations. But without the concepts behind, those symbols mean nothing. One can "redefine a symbol" and everything is still Ok; since the concept is there. For example you can "redefine the symbols representing two concepts by swapping the symbols". And that is Ok as long as you remember the concept represented by each symbol and as long as you remain consistent in their use. If someone sees you do computation or whatever with those new symbols, that person might think you are doing wrong and that you are dumb. But the reason is that the person did not know you "swapped the symbols for the concepts", and that you did that intentionally.
That is the difference between a language and concepts. Words from a language are derived from concepts; those words are arranged to represent a concept. If you change a word in a language, what you're trying to do is invent a new language. And a concept is the actual thing, the actual idea, it is not a simple word that we can change.
My 2 cents. Talking with a math professor who started a tutoring Foundation told me..." It's not really people and most people have enough sense to pass math, but its the way math books in general are written and edited. Most of these people who make math books are out of touch with your average students." From that point I felt better even though I can't pass college algebra on my 4th go around.
YOU CAN'T JUST END IT THERE
lmao, I was thinking the exact same thing
The main reason people suck at Math is that there's no creativity in the curriculum, so everyone is forced to memorize things the hard way instead of using their imagination to make things memorable.
omar zahdan
Look who's talking.
What if I told you the creativity in the curriculum is up to you? You can think of a creative way to remember things or understand things, you choose not to. So maybe the curriculum doesn't lack the availability of creativity, maybe you lack creativity.
booh! >:O and you are rude
I agree
Locutus Borg I feel like it has a lot to do with teachers. A lot of teachers just teach memorizing everything you need to know instead of actually understanding it. If you understand why you use a certain formula then you don't really need to try and memorize it because it just makes sense.
I think one of the biggest stepping stones to avoid the 'im not good at math *haha*"
Is that, although math is logical and understanding by people naturally, there is a great deal of symbols used when writing out mathematics that much be interpreted for meaning before anyone can use the logic involved.
Then people get so lost in the symbolism that they start to distance themselves from the logic and just spend a great deal of time just deciphering. They have a hard time connecting real world to the math symbolism.
Then they should sort themselves out! The symbols make life much easier. When writing out more advanced mathematics, symbols are necessary to be able to state theorems and so forth in a concise manner.
If someone walks into a Real Analysis course mid-semester after having only completed pre-algebra, then of course they would be confused by the symbols. The only trick to being successful at mathematics is to show up everyday and put in some effort.
+Sam Bishop I'm not saying symbolism is wrong. It's entirely important but I think the lack of understanding the symbolism is why people retreat back into the safety net of 'im not good at math' even though math is entirely logical.
+properbeatz I won't argue a lack of effort. But I think more importantly it's a lack of making the connections from one symbolism / concept to another. Mathematics gets into deeper and more complicated symbolism that people struggle to connect with
+Justin Worboys: For me it was always the seemingly endless amount of formulas that had to be memorized once you get into more advanced mathematics like Algebra and Calculus that did me in, along with poor instruction on the teacher's part in a terribly lacking school system that didn't provide a proper foundation for most of this to begin with. In my last two years of high school, I had a teacher from the Philippines who barely spoke English, and I had him for both Intermediate Algebra and Calculus. Most of his class periods consisted of the students just trying to decipher his broken English, and the highest grade in the class was a C. Totally f**ked me when I got to college.
But I can't put it all on him, because from middle school all through highschool, not one of my math teachers were particular good a teaching or breaking down complex information for the layman. They would instruct you as if you were a mathematician and already spoke their language, which was another great barrier, the math jargon. They start casually using this new vocabulary without explaining what most of these new terms mean, and at best, they might gloss over a few or them once, and if the terminology didn't get burned into your mind that first time, you were f**ked.
Then once you start getting into complex math equations involving unknown variables, you live and die on knowing/memorizing the formulas, and all the different steps to take and at what point to take them, in each formula. At least, that's the way it was in my personal experience. The logic aspect was never the problem for me
I think the biggest problem with math education is that it isn’t taught as a subject of intrigue but of pure practicality, despite actually being a subject of intrigue. Mathematicians don’t sit around thinking of how to build better bridges or rockets or write better programs. They try to find answers to interesting questions. Unfortunately, math isn’t taught like that
I believe that the reason people don't do well in Math is because it's complicated (yes, I know, it sounds like a dumb anwser but hear me out) Math is a subject that requires a lot, a LOT of knowledge. If you fall behind on one single thing, you're not going to understand the next thing, and the next thing, and so on. Right now I am an 9th grader at a really crappy highschool with a really bad teacher/education. Last year my Math teacher got pregnant and had to leave for a whole semester, over that semester we had multiple subs that had no intention of teaching us anything and just sat back in their desk and gave us worksheets on stuff we already knew how to do, it wasn't challenging, it's wasn't something we had to critical think to understand, it was EASY. They didn't care if we used our phones, they didn't care if we made a ruckus, they didn't even care if we screamed at the top of our lungs! All that time I thought god had made my teacher pregnant and gave us all a gift to not learn Math, but I was wrong. I had lost over one semester worth of Math knowledge without even knowing or caring. But this is just impossible. I used to be REALLY good at math, REALLY good, and I mean it. I used to always get 100 percent on all my tests, and I finished that class with an A. Since I had an A, I decided that I should choose the "honors" program next year at highschool since I was really good at math. But boy was I wrong...
In my 8th grade class we finished the year knowing what a radical was and how to simplify it to it's bare minimum. But now I'm doing stuff like solving systems of inequalities, proving the Pythagorean theorem and proving the ratios of special right triangles. But tell me this...
HOW IN THE ACTUAL FUCK AM I SUPPOSED TO DO THAT IF I DONT EVEN KNOW WHAT A DAMN RADICAL IS FULLY!! This fucking system of education is retarded. And it's not just me who is getting damaged by it, but it's other students too. And to top it off, the damn teachers don't teach a single thing! They expect us to know everything that they're giving us and to turn it all in with everything right! If we ask for help, they just tell us to work it out! Is this for real? Why am I even trying to pass my class. The stuff is too complicated. I can't find any information online and tutors are really expensive, I don't have money to do that. My parents are latino and they don't understand what's on the paper, and my older brothers are not even home already. Who in the actual fuck is supposed to help me! None of my classmates known how to do this stuff except the ones that were already in honors for 2 years. But for even them it's hard to do! Does anybody relate to me or what?!?!
Nestiray, Teach yourself, you have a computer or some form of mobile device I assume since you made this comment, look it up if you actually care.
"School isn't a place for smart people" - *R&M*
General math has so many different topics that don't build up from prior knowledge. American courses don't even go in depth about them either. It's hard to find good math teachers though.
Explaining logic that is obvious once you know it is hard to pass on. You can easily forget to explain something because it is natural to you.
The only advice I can give you is keep asking questions and study hard.
It's funny because I'm in seventh grade I just learned NOTHING and now in eighth I don't get a lot of stuff, why? Because my teacher was a 5th grade teacher moved up to a middle school and well let's say I learned nothing at all just reviewed forever
Folks, I recently made a video about "Why Math Sucks," which looks at it from the student perspective, and from reading several of the comments below I think and hope many of you would appreciate this: ruclips.net/video/yB_aomp0awc/видео.html. I would love to get your thoughts, comments, and to know if this video was useful for you guys (I really don't want to waste anyone's time). Thanks so much! -ilya
A whole lot of world renowned mathematicians and scientists in this comment section
Nice bait
Math is actually quite simple. I dont understand why I even clicked on this video. I'm too smart for all of you. For example, did you know that 5 + 10 is 510?
Reward your Smart ass with a Cookie!
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
@Kenken Anthony its a joke u idiot
Fuck holy shit genius of the year :O
Richard Dawkins loves to think he's totally logical. I don't think he wants to admit that our decisions are emotion based. That's what Degrasse was trying to tell him. Computers use logic, " reasoning conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity", as reality is fluid, changing constantly, we need to constantly re assess the situation. That's where emotions come in. Had we used "strict principles of validity" it would render us incapable of adapting, but emotions allow us to reprogram ourselves on the fly. But, that's barely a scratch on the surface of how useful emotions are.
I get that impression from Dawkins as well. I can understand why he might avoid factoring in the importance of emotional thinking (at least in his public talks that I've seen) as that leads to some awkward debates. It would imply that simply being "right" about things isn't enough, or even that being "right" isn't as black and white in reality as it is in mathematics. The thought that being illogical is sometimes beneficial is one that I suspect makes him deeply uncomfortable.
+Mollytov Xx A perfect example of this truth is space flight and exploration. So many things about the universe tell us that it's illogical to want to explore given the extreme limitations of the human life span and technology. The truth that does not keep us from attempting to understand it and attempting to develop the technology necessary to one day explore it.
If Quantum Mechanics has proven anything it's that it's impossible to know anything with absolute certainty so despite how they may feel emotion and illogical thinking is sometimes necessary and valuable.
Two replies, both sophisticated! First time that's ever happened to me on youtube. MollyTov, I think your spot on, as I started to realize what emotions really are, I've realized "truth" and "fact" can be quite relative. All we do is take an educated guess at everything, learn a bit more, then take a slightly better guess, we rarely have enough data to use logic, so we mainly use emotion.
Manrightchea I think you could be right. We have everything we need here. We can see useful things in space that we have on earth, but the resources needed to get them, far outweigh the benefits (that we can see), especially when you consider that space, and nearly all the planets are totally uninhabitable. So going to space for resources is not valid! So yes, It's very illogical. But the thrill of exploration, the joys of innovation and curiosity, make it essential.... but once that's all done, to the point where space travel is easy... getting those resources from space will be totally logical! So Logic is, in this case, inferior to emotion.
I don't really want to see this conversation edging into logic vs emotion (which I know we've been trying to avoid but I can see it simmering there). It's not a matter of which is better, but which is more useful in differing situations.
To briefly address Jm Mac, I will say that there are situations were reassessing using logic is not useful. For example situations which require a quick reaction time.
I do find it interesting though, how often we apply reasons to the things we do after the fact then call ourselves logical beings. What I love about the pursuit of logical thinking is getting us to re-examine ourselves more closely so as to avoid this behavior in the future. However there is a lot to missed out on in life if this is the only thing you focus on.
***** That's a different philosophy. We are talking in terms of psychology. Emotions, despite what they tell you in school are not simple whims. They are governed by our subconscious, which picks up things we don't notice. You have described uncontrolled emotion. In practice, most people think they make decisions based purely on intellect or logic and don't realize they are really acting on emotion. However, We need all of them, but more times than not, we simply don't have enough data to make decisions purely based on logic or intellect. meeting new people is a prime example, but to use our emotions well, we need to take time to understand them like the psychologist does.
Maybe people aren't bad at math, perhaps they are bad at numeracy. Assigning symbols (numbers or letters) to represent certain values or concepts, makes it less intuitive. Most people are able to intuitively make monetary calculations because they are less abstract. (Ex. 3 apples for $1.00 is about $0.33 per apple). Apples and money are tangible objects, numbers on a paper or screen are less intuitive. Symbols don't necessarily equate to logic for most people.
Hey Cosmology Today can you provide link for the full discussion please
i know bro
“Sometimes people just want to feel, rather than think”
With every other subject, we are taught to memorize and regurgitate information. The problem with mathematics, is that it’s about understanding the concepts so that we may apply them in different cases. So many people try to memorize what they’re taught in a math class, and then are incapable of turning in homework or exams because they only remember the one case that was discussed, but did not take the time to understand why the concept works the way it does
That’s actually why I found math easy. I hated when teachers didn’t explain it and try to have us memorize. I would always tell the teacher that I need to understand how it works and then I’ll be able to solve all the equations.
"Unwarranted pride in being bad at mathematics".
Hit the nail right on the head. Everyone in my family thinks I'm some sort of genius for actually putting the effort in with maths, the vast majority are not gifted in the subject, including myself. I just don't have the doomed to fail attitude with it... It takes countless hours of repetition to engrave equations and techniques into your skull, like anything.
Why some people are good at maths bcz they know "why"
and some peoples are taught "How"
"Math class, never was good"
-Grande, Ariana. Oct 30, 2020
@RUclips channel what do you mean by that?
Only in North American culture do people laugh about not being good at Math. The public education system in North America is the Lowest in the WORLD when it comes to mathematics. Everywhere else in the world, including Europe, it's very embarrassing to not be able to do mathematics.
Feeling and being Sociable is more important to North Americans, and this is the way teachers teach in school. this is the reason for all the protesters who are ANGRY with stuff that makes no sense to the rest of the world who do logical things like math and respect other peoples way of life.
Most of that laughter about not being good comes from a place of insecurity. That may just have to do with American idiosyncrasies. I genuinely doubt any person in earnest is proud of being bad at mathematics
It's the same thing here in Brazil, the kids can't understand math, the truth is... They don't give a fuck. They are more interested in sex and their smartphones.
I'm Irish and I was always ashamed in school that I was the bottom of the class in maths, despite being good at or even top of the class in many other subjects.
Captain Athens, Great job there. Going with the bias option that ONLY Americans are ignorant and believe they are proud about it, from the look of this reply section I would say the only ignorant individual here is you, and it's a shame that you represent your continent with such a stroppy and egocentric attitude.