@@demontiming3234 i dont really think so, love train makes the user go into an area of pure good luck and wonder of u makes the target have pure bad luck
I remember on Death Battle’s podcast they had Funny Valentine vs. Senator Armstrong and mentioned D4C Love Train vs Wonder of U, and how that would potentially quickly end the world as all of Funny Valentine’s diverted Calamities would spread all over the planet until all life is extinct. Also Armstrong vs Valentine is an excellent example of Stats vs Hax.
@@lilweedle6013 wonder of u is the strongest stand because of one thing. The activation and usage of lovetrain makes it so that you can’t attack until you turn it off. So WOU would be an unstoppable force, and lovetrain would be the immovable object
@@lilweedle6013 you cannot think that way. you need to think a logically too not just pure author statements. So basically what iam trying to say wou doesnt have any way to bypass love train, he doesnt have infinite energy or isnt above dimensions or doesnt have any reason to bypass it, calamity is not powered by any meaning that can bypass it so it wouldnt make sense. I give you example: mih vs tusk act 4 mih has a better chance of winning cuz he is extremely fast and too fast for tusk act 4 to hit him. But tusk act 4 is more powerful and has stronger hax. Mih cant bypass love train and tusk act 4 can. So by your logic it would look like this mih>tusk act 4, mih > d4c lt which is definitely not true there are things named "COUNTERS" counter is a ability that is really good against some ability. this is d4c lt its counter to wou cuz wou has no way of bypassing therefore he cant beat d4c lt. but wou can beat for example mih or something really fast which funny would have hard time to deal with.
This might be the most controversial vs battle in jojo and I think you handled it perfectly. Them both never reaching the end of the fight feels ironic but also correct, though people will always demand a winner no matter what. Keep up the good work and you’re so close to 5k, maybe a special vid for such an important milestone?
The one component of GER that isn’t mentioned much is it’s ability to put you in infinite loops. He could be able to accomplish this without touching you and put you in a loop of any action you are conducting like an infinite loop of walking with ever changing environments
Yeah but I don’t think that would be able to do anything because wonder of u is a big no u card so how would the infinite death loop even connect if wou is gonna Karma it
Well Giorno also has bunch of preview abilities and greatly enhanced it. Make it even more winnable for him. But really tho, it's just never ending battle
@@doctorx2307 the fight would pretty much just play out as GER pursuing WoU then WoU activating and GER just reverting everything that happens. But at the same time tho, when it reverts things everything is reset meaning that WoU will be reset. So with that he could put WoU in a loop while it’s being reset or maybe it still wouldn’t work and GER would just keep being attacked by calamity. The most likely outcome is just a tie with a potential chance of GER winning. WoU doesn’t really have any way to win outright but GER does
@@jojokujo6886 i think that wou is just ger but more broken in my opinion i think that ger would attack wou and then calamity would occur but that wouldnt register as an attack because its like the universe and it doesnt get nullified
@@reflex9238 But that completely contradicts the whole point of love train's ability which is to redirect all misfortune, yknow? the whole ability of WoU? Badluck i.e misfortune? Araki also never really said it was "the strongest" ability but more so like the most troublesome and most difficult to face. So in reality WoU is not above love train and you are overrating it.
@@DeliciousHam69 Araki said Calamity might even be beyond hope, while also saying it’s the strongest. Which would mean the Calamities are above Love Train’s ability of redirecting misfortune, that it’s calamities would still hit Love Train despite its ability.
Loved this video. You did much better job of explaining problematic nature of this then most people who try to explain these stands should be on the same level in power scaling list. Hope that this gets to a lot of people, it's annoying to see people constantly put GER at the first place and then denying any explenation why it either should be on the same level or WOU be over it. Would love to see your take on beyond vs TWOH, because in my eyes it's same sort of discussion as this fo non-cannon workd of JoJo.
The web of logic needs causality, but logic itself doesn’t, however, causality itself still needs logic, and as WoU states, it is/controls logic itself. As WoU can manipulate amount of damage an object would logically deal, emotions(as shown with joshu), and even the state of the enemy’s body. It’s possible WoU could do something like make the arrow in GeR eject and would make GeR not notice because logic manipulation, or considering WoU was shown to control other stand abilities like controlling soft and wet’s bubbles EVEN THO JOSUKE WAS STILL CONTROLLING THEM, it might just be capable of weakening GeR for no reason because logic manipulation. Essentially GeR’s stand power still works under logic, on the other hand WoU is potentially acausal due to operating even though it’s user is already dead and the statement that it is logic itself: “wonder of u is a universal constant of natural calamity logic, Toru was just using it as an ability”, “the figure of the head doctor is the same thing as calamity energy” meaning GeR resetting Toru’s stand power wouldn’t do anything, and would have to reset logic itself, which it would not be able to do due to it’s own power still operating under logic A common argument I see is GeR reversing WoU’s will, but it’s clear these guys just didn’t read part 8
what if ger just erases his intent by setting it to 0 but attacks anyways cause you dont have to have intent to attack. Ger is stated to be outerversal as an existence if i remember correctly since you have to be immune to king crimson fate skipping to be able to return that action to 0 so its outside of logic and causality as well. If WOU can manipulate GER theirs a possibility it wins and its really its only chance.
@@josephvaccariello4181 it's not outside of logic, ger ability is to reverse things to state of 0, time being restored should happen, because ger reverts the enemies actions, although time was erased, it still existed at some point of history, therefore it would just come back.
But as you read the manga, Calamity works using Causality and everything works using cause but cause itself needs logic. WoU can't erase logic. so GER Rtz can still be use against WoU. GER may can Revert it, but can't stop it just like WoU. And i just read JOJOVELLER(latest jojo databook) it explained well that GER can revert direct and INDIRECT attack. GER still be regarded as strongest stand while D4C and Tusk Act 4 is in the list(Even with Love Train and infinite rotation, those abilities are meant nothing to GER)
If it were including there users, Giorno can only kill tooru if he somehow does it accidentally and doesn’t know he exists there for doesn’t pursue him (theoretically) Tooru can only kill Giorno if g.e.r happens to be something Giorno uses with his own reaction time and it happens to not be automatic there for Giorno would get distracted by something, and die
Calamities transcend dimensions, something which GER doesn't do, and even if we say he's on par, the Calamities are automatic and requires someone to have the intent to harm Giorno, so that intent doesn't exist and Giorno would be hit with the Calamity.
@@reflex92381.WOU does not transcend dimensions 2.GER is the one that goes above space Time and the 4th dimension,giorno doesn't need to use his own reaction time as the ability is automatic
@@dillonfasuan5836 it does given its scaling above D4C Love Train which is stated to transcend dimensions, as Araki has said in an interview that WoU is the strongest villain Stand. There’s no evidence of GER being above space-time and it’s not like it would matter since it’s not resisting the calamities, since RTZ only activates using GER’s speed and on the condition that someone has the intent of attacking him. Calamities don’t require intent from the user to activate and hit an opponent thus Giorno would be hit with the Calamities without being able to defend himself.
I just realised if these two clashed we would eventually DIE and be revived because it was reverted to zero only to DIE AGAIN only to be reverted back to zero only to DIE again so basically it would be canon as we would be in the same place as diavolo and if diavolo dies it's canon therefore this fight is in fact canon
The other component of GER is the ability to turn anything to living organisms, and make them explode, as GER can manipulate the living things to it's will. This, of course, is GE's ability too.
Universe will change its logic to give calamity vs the Universe then reset to avoid calamity. Universe then going almost invinite loop. However Logic and calamity is finite. Universe will run out of Calamities. For example you can think of how many thing a ball going to harm you, but in the end you will get tired and run out logic. Meanwhile Golden Experience is reaction. It will run back in time and prevent Wonder of U ever being created or exist or fight. Hard lost
The universe doesn't exactly have a will.. so, does it make sense to say that calamities return, but the direction in which the attack would continue is not interrupted? why restarting at will is so that an undone attack does not have the initiative to try again. If it makes sense, Calamity could continue manipulating causality so that objects continue to have danger even after they have been undone (thus being able to redirect or eventualize something if the objects were attacked or trying to avoid them). If so, things would keep returning again and again, while getting worse
I feel like GE:R just bodies Wonder of U. I will take the idea that Requiem stands are the evolution of stands that make their ability take domain over all things (not like a god but power wise). Wonder of U requires intent of someone to activate, meaning when Giorno or GE:R seek out Wonder of U or Tooru calamity will move the world and non life to negatively impact or damage/kill them. Return to Zero resets that intent by Wonder of U so Giorno is never targeted by calamity, making Wonder of U about as useless as King Crimson was. With Infinite Death, Wonder of U is never actually destroyed, so calamity is not removed from reality and it just returns to a state where no entity is actively interfering with its normal function like Wonder of U was.
GER is still beneath MiH, which only needed to reset one universe. According to Araki, WoU is the strongest stand, this means its dominion goes beyond just the single universe like D4C:Love Train {though the fact Valentine has to exit in order to attack docks points in the metaphorical tier list}, and MiH (which is clearly stronger than GER or GER would have done more than exactly squat and reset to an earlier point.) And how does not being targeted while having the distance between them reset do anything? It just rewinds to an earlier point and says “that never happened, do it over.” And if GER somehow attacks WoU despite the resets, then Calamity triggers and since it is a concept beyond GER, GER can do little to stop it, as any intent to attack WoU counts as pursuit. And you seem to forget that GER has to have the possibility of killing WoU in the first place in order to activate the loop, which is quite the task. MiH proves that GER can’t counter a universe-ending event. Granted, GER only needed to protect him from the disasters caused as a side effect, but the reset intention part still applies.
GER cannot just revert causality whenever he wants, it depends on the opponent's will and action to activate. Calamity isn't the opponent's will and action, so RTZ won't activate.
It annoys me to no end that this whole "needing the attacker's will to activate" weakness has never been stated or demonstrated anywhere in the manga, anime or Araki himself but everyone tosses it around as if it's a fact, both in and out of the community. That headcanon is as valid as Star Platinum stealing TWOH's power because of the "It's the same type of stand" bullshit. The Made in Heaven argument is something these mfs like to bring up, ignoring the fact that the universe reset doesn't erase you from existence just because. Emporio survived so there's no reason to believe Giorno couldn't. The reset doesn't threaten Giorno's existence so there's no reason for GER to activate, it's simple as that. The SBRverse argument is the one I absolutely hate. SBRverse has its own set of infinite amount of parallel universes. In other word, SBRverse is a *multiverse* while Made in Heaven can only reset a universe, therefore SBRverse *cannot* be created by MiH.
Let's say calamity makes a stone attack giorno, the stone still has a purpose. It has a place in time which it would harm giorno. Thus making it an attack. Yes its not an attack by someone, but its still going to harm giorno which will trigger rtz
Remember, he isn't reverting calamity, but the effect (a nuke, falling building etc...) Unless I'm mistaken WOU cannot just instant kill someone through natural death. Instead it creates situations that puts the target in danger.
@@psychologicalFudge GER description: "The strength of the attacker's (the opponent) will and action will be reverted to zero." It doesn't say that it reverts any attack or anything that could harm Giorno. Multiple descriptions of the ability consistently mentions that it reverts the opponent's or attacker's will and actions and nothing else. In the case of calamity, although it is an ability of Tooru's stand, it is not an action of his. As calamity occur independently of Tooru's (the opponent) will and actions. Since calamities happen on its own, it wouldn't be an action made by an opponent/attack action and will. Thus GER would not be able to defend against it according to it's description.
@jesusvaldez6951 See, the main problem is how gers' ability is explained. We barely get any information. However, if u go by jojowiki, then giorno can indeed stalemate as he manipulates casuality to an extent. If u go by the few words of description givin in the databook, then giorno dies by natural causes. It all depends on which description u follow. The reason I follow the jojowiki, apart from it being the best wiki, is cos we never get to see the extent of gers powers. Its stats are shrouded in mystery, and the ability description in the manga is a few words. For example, it isn't stated that diavolo can share his epitaph with his other self. Albeit this seems logical, he still couldn't share his time skip or his stand with his other half. An ability not explained in the description.
nothing can hit WoU and that's how jouske somehow won, but if giorno thinks about going after WoU he would get hit by calamity and Idk if it would get rtz'd. If it does then if giorno thinks about going after WoU again im pretty sure this cycle will repeat cuz giorno does not have a nothing attack. If it does not then well WoU wins seems pretty straight forward kinda idk
Josuke Hit WoU using bubble that will create nothingness to counter Calamity however, it's just based on plot armor ofc how Josuke beat WoU... Both WoU and GER are sentient being, they have their own consciousness. Both also have passive ability that literally can go forever without stopping. It's kinda stalemate, but Giorno have bunch of other abilities too that are Greatly enhanced because of Requiem. The fight favored on Giorno if he somehow hit WoU directly as WoU doesn't have good defense ability
The fact of the matter is that GER's ability, RTZ, is an automatic response to being attacked. It activates on attacks or attackers with the will to attack. This is something both abilities share in common: A vulnerability in the activation of their ability to stop a target from hurting them. However, Wonder Of U's is more effective than GER's because A: It doesn't require an attack or attacker, only 'pursuit' B: Wonder Of U's passive defense ability automatically doubles with offensive capabilities. When you attack GER, you are simply returned to before your attack landed. In WOU's case, you are simply killed or injured to stop your pursuit. The reason Wonder Of U would triumph in this fight isn't because Wonder Of U is stronger than GER, nor that the two would infinitely cancel each other and end up tying until Giorno dies of old age. The fact of the matter is that 'Calamity' can't be constituted as an attacker or an attack, no matter how you perceive it. In any scenario where Giorno knows who the head doctor is he loses. Nobody he can send after Tooru/the head doctor would be able to kill him, and Giorno himself can't rely on RTZ because quite frankly RTZ wouldn't help him evade calamity as it doesn't deem Calamity as an attack.
So it's a lose-lose situation then. If Calamity keeps escalating then it'll reach a point where the entire world is destroyed by an asteroid and both of them either die or exist in a vacuum. Even if the world doesn't end it's an eternal stalemate. A conflict that never ends til the end of time. It'll take an act of God to stop the conflict.
Wonder of U is stated to be the strongest villain Stand, surpassing D4C Love Train which is stated to transcend dimensions in the JoJoveller guidebooks, a statement which GER doesn't have. So Wonder of U slaps GER, and even if we say he could GER only activates when someone has the intention of harming Giorno, and since Calamities are automatic this intention doesn't exist and Giorno would be hit with the Calmaity. No matter how you spin it GER gets stomped massively.
@@l0sts0ul89 ger can revert every action that would harm giorno to zero so his enemy can never attack him and just stands still and ger rtz ability doesn't have strength limit
@@dbsdbz- it actually needs to know the action, rain can kill you, and it isn't fast enough to break through every drop. That's just one possible death via WoU
@@dbsdbz- nope he wasn’t able to reverse the effects of MIH, so RTZ only activates when someone has intent to harm Giorno, this is confirmed by Araki in both JoJoveller and JoJo A Go Go. Given how RTZ is causality manipulation to prevent fated actions, this would be a type of space-time manipulation given how things in 3D move within the flow of time, making the ability universal+ or 4D at max. Calamity is infinite 4D or multiversal+ given its statement of being stronger than Love Train which can be put at multiversal, or high 4D.
Anime capsule if your reading this I love your videos and they always make my day but I have one question for you. Do you think jojojlands will be the last part
@@BUR404 I think we will part 10 since there’s one Joestar who doesn’t have a alternate universe version that being jolyne kujo after part 10 I think the series will end plus ten is a nice round number
We needed that video but I don't understand do you mean that wou will win or nobody will win I mean ger can't be touched but in the same time wou can't be touched as well
GER is getting stomped in power and the fact that he can't activate RTZ, since it only activates to those that have intent to harm Giorno, and since the Calamities are automatic this intention doesn't exist and Giorno would be hit with the Calamities. Araki has also stated that WoU is the strongest villain Stand which puts it above Love Train who's stated to transcend dimensions according to the JoJoveller Guidebook.
@@BUR404 you say that but gave no scaling to GER, and ignored the fact that GER only activates to those who have the intention of harming Giorno which Calamity won’t do given its automatic nature.
@@reflex9238ger doesn't just activate with will, that's one of the things that makes it activate. The effect of an action will trigger rtz if it will harm giorno The will of a person even before the effect (stabbing, shooting etc...) will trigger rtz. Calamity cannot be reverted since its neither of those however, whatever it manipulates, has an effect. For example, if it made a knife drop from a shelf onto giornos head, the knife itself will be seen as a threat and will get the rtz treatment. If Calamity makes a stone on the floor explode (cuz why not), then ger would revert the effect, thus it never happened.
@@reflex9238let's say giorno manages to get hit with an attack. He doesn't control rtz. Ger will simply revert the effect the moment it sees giorno is in danger. This is why the battle will be a stalemate. Even if it was something intangible like gravity, ger will simply revert the effect. Thus gravity had never changed.
Wou vs ger is not that big wou wins because ger falls in the line of logic what do i mean ger ability is automatic it activate to remove the cause of an action that wants to damage giorno but as we know giorno and the arrow are logical entities and again as we know wou controlled gappy to hit mamezuku so a wou calamity eventually would simply reverse ger effects or do smt about them beating giorno
That wouldn’t work because ger is only able to reset physical things. He wouldn’t be able to reset calamity itself, and he can’t go in for the attack because then wou would just karma all over again
@@doctorx2307This, ger would not reverse the calamity itself but rather would restore the effects of the calamity like having a stone thrown at you and that
Too bad, people with low IQ would thought GER will win against Wonder Of U. They need to understand how GER rtz work first. Fact rtz and calamity manipulation are a automatic ability, so yeah Kaato could through rtz easily
Says the one who doesn't understand how simple grammar works🌚wonder of u just puts u in danger,we have seen enemies survive from the attack,anything that is about to harm giorno instantly gets rtz
Don't forget ger himself states he is above space and time and this ability activates when giorno is in danger,anything that harms giorno gets reverted even calamity
@@dillonfasuan5836 I may have bad grammar but at least I understand how GER abilities work unlike you. Just assume rtz work on space and time. Blud thought he is Araki 💀 Manga Destructive: none Speed: none Range: none Persisntence: none Precision: none Growth: none Anime Destructive: null Speed: null Range: null Persistence: null Precision: null Growth: null Null=Unknown
@@dillonfasuan5836 rtz aren't effect time. Proof- fate following time and the only way to make "that fate" doesn't happen, is by reset people action without effecting the time. About fate following time has been approved on JJBA: Stone Ocean. If you don't understand how fate on JJBA works, then you probably aren't fully know how KC work. Another thing, automatic stand like Bohemian Rhapsody, Super Fly, Cheap Trick, Osiris, Atom, Wonder Of U, Sugar Mountain, Marilyn Manson and Notorious could beat GER easily. As long those stand doesn't have a purpose on harming Jorno, they could throught rtz. Rtz is an automatic ability. Proof- before he punch Jorno, he got rtz. If rtz aren't an automatic ability, then Jorno would've got donut
@@dillonfasuan5836 List of a stand that could logically beat GER: Soft & Wet [Go Beyond] (definitely) Tusk Act 4 (maybe) Wonder Of U (definitely) Super Fly Cheap Trick Marilyn Manson Sugar Mountain Death 13 Osiris Atom Man In The Mirror Made In Heaven (time traveling) Notorious B.I.G (maybe) Bohemian Rhapsody California King Bed Boy II Man The World Over Heaven (not canon but ok) Highway To Hell King Crimson (kinda) Sun
yeah pretty sure GER can just revert anything that stops it from reaching wonder of you to 0 and then just trap wonder of you in a infinite death loop or simply never allow it to revive by returning that action to 0. It would also prevent all world ending actions and attacks to 0 as well stopping them. So wonder of you might destroythe planet a few times but ger just reverts his ass to 0
You do know that wonder-of u controls all logic right and return to zero falls under logic. And also wonder of u ability’s works on a multiversal+ scale proof tusk act 4. The infinite rotation of tusk works on a multiversal+ this is shown when he bypasses dc4 love train ability which is made up of infinite universes. The infinite rotation by valentine was referred to as a calamity. Yea I think you know where I’m going with this so I’m am not going to explain more. Ger if you what to high ball it.ability only works on a universal scale. So the return to zero ability even without the whole thing about wonder of u controlling all logic would be completely useless.
That could've happened, if Giorno somehow hit WoU after all fight that Calamity itself doesn't have an object to throw at Giorno. Remember Calamity isn't an object, Calamity will stays there but nothing will happen really
@@TTALS64 yeah, but wou is wou. the only thing that could even defeat him is soft and wet go beyond since he specifically has the properties to beat him
@@Georgefloydthesneedster well ger cant beat wou, you could say that wou beats ger for the sole reason of it being force in the world which will never truely die, but if ger can just spam rtz then it will be a cycle with no winner
@@SchankmandOG a lot of stands are like this, its quite similar to wou vs d4c lt, but because of the nature of wou if his opponent makes even one mistake(such as valentine leaving the dimensional barriers for example), its over
@@Georgefloydthesneedster the problem is that wou only has 1 weakness that only afew stands have which makes it even more op if we pin it against stands from before part 7 (like in the video ger)
GER having the passive ability to nullify willpower gives him the win against WoU. It’s basically making Toru lose any will to fight or defend himself which leads to toru either not calling out WoU or he turns WoU off just to get put into a infinite death loop.
Wonder of U wins. Calamity is a natural function of the universe. GER couldn't stop the flow of calamity. He only stops any actions taken against Giorno. Calamity is similar to gravity, GER couldn't stop that
This fight should literally be used as the go to example when ever discussing the phrase “The Unstoppable Force meets the Immovable Object”
i think it would make more sense with love train vs wonder of u
Both are immovable objects
ta4 vs ger
@@penguinscanfly5796 on a basic level you aren’t wrong but thinking deeper into it GER is a better matchup
@@demontiming3234 i dont really think so, love train makes the user go into an area of pure good luck and wonder of u makes the target have pure bad luck
I remember on Death Battle’s podcast they had Funny Valentine vs. Senator Armstrong and mentioned D4C Love Train vs Wonder of U, and how that would potentially quickly end the world as all of Funny Valentine’s diverted Calamities would spread all over the planet until all life is extinct.
Also Armstrong vs Valentine is an excellent example of Stats vs Hax.
Araki stated Wou is the strongest stand so that means Calamity > Love Train. Besides death battle hasn't always been right
@@lilweedle6013 wonder of u is the strongest stand because of one thing. The activation and usage of lovetrain makes it so that you can’t attack until you turn it off. So WOU would be an unstoppable force, and lovetrain would be the immovable object
@@lilweedle6013 you cannot think that way. you need to think a logically too not just pure author statements. So basically what iam trying to say wou doesnt have any way to bypass love train, he doesnt have infinite energy or isnt above dimensions or doesnt have any reason to bypass it, calamity is not powered by any meaning that can bypass it so it wouldnt make sense. I give you example: mih vs tusk act 4 mih has a better chance of winning cuz he is extremely fast and too fast for tusk act 4 to hit him. But tusk act 4 is more powerful and has stronger hax. Mih cant bypass love train and tusk act 4 can. So by your logic it would look like this mih>tusk act 4, mih > d4c lt which is definitely not true there are things named "COUNTERS" counter is a ability that is really good against some ability. this is d4c lt its counter to wou cuz wou has no way of bypassing therefore he cant beat d4c lt. but wou can beat for example mih or something really fast which funny would have hard time to deal with.
The Ultimate Logic Breaker vs The Ultimate Nullifying Force
This might be the most controversial vs battle in jojo and I think you handled it perfectly. Them both never reaching the end of the fight feels ironic but also correct, though people will always demand a winner no matter what. Keep up the good work and you’re so close to 5k, maybe a special vid for such an important milestone?
Ger: "NUH UH"
Wou:"FUCK YOU MEAN NUH UH"
The one component of GER that isn’t mentioned much is it’s ability to put you in infinite loops. He could be able to accomplish this without touching you and put you in a loop of any action you are conducting like an infinite loop of walking with ever changing environments
Yeah but I don’t think that would be able to do anything because wonder of u is a big no u card so how would the infinite death loop even connect if wou is gonna Karma it
@@doctorx2307ger just resets it the entire point and the very first ability of ger is he stops eliminates and rewrites time and gravity itself
Well Giorno also has bunch of preview abilities and greatly enhanced it. Make it even more winnable for him. But really tho, it's just never ending battle
@@doctorx2307 the fight would pretty much just play out as GER pursuing WoU then WoU activating and GER just reverting everything that happens. But at the same time tho, when it reverts things everything is reset meaning that WoU will be reset. So with that he could put WoU in a loop while it’s being reset or maybe it still wouldn’t work and GER would just keep being attacked by calamity. The most likely outcome is just a tie with a potential chance of GER winning. WoU doesn’t really have any way to win outright but GER does
The other component of GER is the ability to turn anything to living organisms, and make them explode.
This truly is the most interesting Jojo stand battle
So the multiverse would get" "fuct" "if they beef?
I just realized Wonder of U VS D4C With Love Train would also be catastrophic
Well Araki already answered that and he states WoU is the strongest villain Stand, which would be above Love Train, and therefore above GER.
I don't think WoU would be above GER
@@jojokujo6886 i think that wou is just ger but more broken in my opinion i think that ger would attack wou and then calamity would occur but that wouldnt register as an attack because its like the universe and it doesnt get nullified
@@reflex9238 But that completely contradicts the whole point of love train's ability which is to redirect all misfortune, yknow? the whole ability of WoU? Badluck i.e misfortune? Araki also never really said it was "the strongest" ability but more so like the most troublesome and most difficult to face. So in reality WoU is not above love train and you are overrating it.
@@DeliciousHam69 Araki said Calamity might even be beyond hope, while also saying it’s the strongest. Which would mean the Calamities are above Love Train’s ability of redirecting misfortune, that it’s calamities would still hit Love Train despite its ability.
Loved this video. You did much better job of explaining problematic nature of this then most people who try to explain these stands should be on the same level in power scaling list. Hope that this gets to a lot of people, it's annoying to see people constantly put GER at the first place and then denying any explenation why it either should be on the same level or WOU be over it.
Would love to see your take on beyond vs TWOH, because in my eyes it's same sort of discussion as this fo non-cannon workd of JoJo.
Every video you put out is entertaining and amazingly well done. Keep doing good work and keep putting out videos like this. Fire work man!
Thanks 😁
@@BUR404 No thank you
@Capt Levi Because it was too similar to a different Gold Experience video I've already done
If you think about it, Valentine is just alternate Giorno and Diavolo is Tooru in SBR universe
The web of logic needs causality, but logic itself doesn’t, however, causality itself still needs logic, and as WoU states, it is/controls logic itself. As WoU can manipulate amount of damage an object would logically deal, emotions(as shown with joshu), and even the state of the enemy’s body. It’s possible WoU could do something like make the arrow in GeR eject and would make GeR not notice because logic manipulation, or considering WoU was shown to control other stand abilities like controlling soft and wet’s bubbles EVEN THO JOSUKE WAS STILL CONTROLLING THEM, it might just be capable of weakening GeR for no reason because logic manipulation. Essentially GeR’s stand power still works under logic, on the other hand WoU is potentially acausal due to operating even though it’s user is already dead and the statement that it is logic itself: “wonder of u is a universal constant of natural calamity logic, Toru was just using it as an ability”, “the figure of the head doctor is the same thing as calamity energy” meaning GeR resetting Toru’s stand power wouldn’t do anything, and would have to reset logic itself, which it would not be able to do due to it’s own power still operating under logic
A common argument I see is GeR reversing WoU’s will, but it’s clear these guys just didn’t read part 8
what if ger just erases his intent by setting it to 0 but attacks anyways cause you dont have to have intent to attack. Ger is stated to be outerversal as an existence if i remember correctly since you have to be immune to king crimson fate skipping to be able to return that action to 0 so its outside of logic and causality as well. If WOU can manipulate GER theirs a possibility it wins and its really its only chance.
@@josephvaccariello4181 it's not outside of logic, ger ability is to reverse things to state of 0, time being restored should happen, because ger reverts the enemies actions, although time was erased, it still existed at some point of history, therefore it would just come back.
But as you read the manga, Calamity works using Causality and everything works using cause but cause itself needs logic. WoU can't erase logic. so GER Rtz can still be use against WoU. GER may can Revert it, but can't stop it just like WoU.
And i just read
JOJOVELLER(latest jojo databook) it explained well that GER can revert direct and INDIRECT attack. GER still be regarded as strongest stand while D4C and Tusk Act 4 is in the list(Even with Love Train and infinite rotation, those abilities are meant nothing to GER)
If it were including there users, Giorno can only kill tooru if he somehow does it accidentally and doesn’t know he exists there for doesn’t pursue him (theoretically) Tooru can only kill Giorno if g.e.r happens to be something Giorno uses with his own reaction time and it happens to not be automatic there for Giorno would get distracted by something, and die
Calamities transcend dimensions, something which GER doesn't do, and even if we say he's on par, the Calamities are automatic and requires someone to have the intent to harm Giorno, so that intent doesn't exist and Giorno would be hit with the Calamity.
@reflex9238 wonder of u doesn't transcend dimensions
@@reflex92381.WOU does not transcend dimensions 2.GER is the one that goes above space Time and the 4th dimension,giorno doesn't need to use his own reaction time as the ability is automatic
@@dillonfasuan5836 it does given its scaling above D4C Love Train which is stated to transcend dimensions, as Araki has said in an interview that WoU is the strongest villain Stand. There’s no evidence of GER being above space-time and it’s not like it would matter since it’s not resisting the calamities, since RTZ only activates using GER’s speed and on the condition that someone has the intent of attacking him. Calamities don’t require intent from the user to activate and hit an opponent thus Giorno would be hit with the Calamities without being able to defend himself.
@@reflex9238the intent part is dubious, but WoU could still smite GER
I just realised if these two clashed we would eventually DIE and be revived because it was reverted to zero only to DIE AGAIN only to be reverted back to zero only to DIE again so basically it would be canon as we would be in the same place as diavolo and if diavolo dies it's canon therefore this fight is in fact canon
This is such a calamity
Both of these characters would just “No u” each other out of existence.
I don't know wether you represented the stands correctly, but the result makes sense.
The other component of GER is the ability to turn anything to living organisms, and make them explode, as GER can manipulate the living things to it's will. This, of course, is GE's ability too.
Universe will change its logic to give calamity vs the Universe then reset to avoid calamity.
Universe then going almost invinite loop. However Logic and calamity is finite. Universe will run out of Calamities.
For example you can think of how many thing a ball going to harm you, but in the end you will get tired and run out logic.
Meanwhile Golden Experience is reaction. It will run back in time and prevent Wonder of U ever being created or exist or fight.
Hard lost
Great time. I actually have both WoU and GER on the same tier but I have WoU > GER.
The universe doesn't exactly have a will.. so, does it make sense to say that calamities return, but the direction in which the attack would continue is not interrupted? why restarting at will is so that an undone attack does not have the initiative to try again. If it makes sense, Calamity could continue manipulating causality so that objects continue to have danger even after they have been undone (thus being able to redirect or eventualize something if the objects were attacked or trying to avoid them). If so, things would keep returning again and again, while getting worse
Everyone gangsta until calamity causes okuyasu to become smart and evil,and erase wou and ger😂🤣
Very good explanation, both stand are complete opposite
ger is just will reversal, wou is the one that affects calamity, so ger couldnt even reverse the disasters 'caused' by wou
Ger reverses anything that harms giorno
@@spygo4513 ger can only reverse living things, again, if a tornado were to randomly come and harm him, he wouldnt be able to stop that
I feel like GE:R just bodies Wonder of U. I will take the idea that Requiem stands are the evolution of stands that make their ability take domain over all things (not like a god but power wise). Wonder of U requires intent of someone to activate, meaning when Giorno or GE:R seek out Wonder of U or Tooru calamity will move the world and non life to negatively impact or damage/kill them. Return to Zero resets that intent by Wonder of U so Giorno is never targeted by calamity, making Wonder of U about as useless as King Crimson was. With Infinite Death, Wonder of U is never actually destroyed, so calamity is not removed from reality and it just returns to a state where no entity is actively interfering with its normal function like Wonder of U was.
Well if GER using return to zero to deflect any WoU calamity. Where's the fun at? It's just like absolute defense stand vs absolute offense stand
GER is still beneath MiH, which only needed to reset one universe.
According to Araki, WoU is the strongest stand, this means its dominion goes beyond just the single universe like D4C:Love Train {though the fact Valentine has to exit in order to attack docks points in the metaphorical tier list}, and MiH (which is clearly stronger than GER or GER would have done more than exactly squat and reset to an earlier point.)
And how does not being targeted while having the distance between them reset do anything? It just rewinds to an earlier point and says “that never happened, do it over.”
And if GER somehow attacks WoU despite the resets, then Calamity triggers and since it is a concept beyond GER, GER can do little to stop it, as any intent to attack WoU counts as pursuit.
And you seem to forget that GER has to have the possibility of killing WoU in the first place in order to activate the loop, which is quite the task.
MiH proves that GER can’t counter a universe-ending event. Granted, GER only needed to protect him from the disasters caused as a side effect, but the reset intention part still applies.
Ur points were pretty good but u were wrong about king crimson, he actually erases the action and leaves the reaction as a result.
It would be interesting to see what will happen if someone from One Piece who has master Ken Haki lets say Katakuri go up against WoU.
they’d accidently trip face first into a puddle paralysing them and they proceed to drown
W VIDEO
GER cannot just revert causality whenever he wants, it depends on the opponent's will and action to activate. Calamity isn't the opponent's will and action, so RTZ won't activate.
It annoys me to no end that this whole "needing the attacker's will to activate" weakness has never been stated or demonstrated anywhere in the manga, anime or Araki himself but everyone tosses it around as if it's a fact, both in and out of the community. That headcanon is as valid as Star Platinum stealing TWOH's power because of the "It's the same type of stand" bullshit.
The Made in Heaven argument is something these mfs like to bring up, ignoring the fact that the universe reset doesn't erase you from existence just because. Emporio survived so there's no reason to believe Giorno couldn't. The reset doesn't threaten Giorno's existence so there's no reason for GER to activate, it's simple as that.
The SBRverse argument is the one I absolutely hate. SBRverse has its own set of infinite amount of parallel universes. In other word, SBRverse is a *multiverse* while Made in Heaven can only reset a universe, therefore SBRverse *cannot* be created by MiH.
Let's say calamity makes a stone attack giorno, the stone still has a purpose. It has a place in time which it would harm giorno. Thus making it an attack. Yes its not an attack by someone, but its still going to harm giorno which will trigger rtz
Remember, he isn't reverting calamity, but the effect (a nuke, falling building etc...)
Unless I'm mistaken WOU cannot just instant kill someone through natural death. Instead it creates situations that puts the target in danger.
@@psychologicalFudge GER description: "The strength of the attacker's (the opponent) will and action will be reverted to zero."
It doesn't say that it reverts any attack or anything that could harm Giorno. Multiple descriptions of the ability consistently mentions that it reverts the opponent's or attacker's will and actions and nothing else. In the case of calamity, although it is an ability of Tooru's stand, it is not an action of his. As calamity occur independently of Tooru's (the opponent) will and actions. Since calamities happen on its own, it wouldn't be an action made by an opponent/attack action and will. Thus GER would not be able to defend against it according to it's description.
@jesusvaldez6951
See, the main problem is how gers' ability is explained. We barely get any information. However, if u go by jojowiki, then giorno can indeed stalemate as he manipulates casuality to an extent. If u go by the few words of description givin in the databook, then giorno dies by natural causes. It all depends on which description u follow.
The reason I follow the jojowiki, apart from it being the best wiki, is cos we never get to see the extent of gers powers. Its stats are shrouded in mystery, and the ability description in the manga is a few words.
For example, it isn't stated that diavolo can share his epitaph with his other self. Albeit this seems logical, he still couldn't share his time skip or his stand with his other half. An ability not explained in the description.
nothing can hit WoU and that's how jouske somehow won, but if giorno thinks about going after WoU he would get hit by calamity and Idk if it would get rtz'd. If it does then if giorno thinks about going after WoU again im pretty sure this cycle will repeat cuz giorno does not have a nothing attack. If it does not then well WoU wins seems pretty straight forward kinda idk
Josuke Hit WoU using bubble that will create nothingness to counter Calamity however, it's just based on plot armor ofc how Josuke beat WoU...
Both WoU and GER are sentient being, they have their own consciousness. Both also have passive ability that literally can go forever without stopping. It's kinda stalemate, but Giorno have bunch of other abilities too that are Greatly enhanced because of Requiem. The fight favored on Giorno if he somehow hit WoU directly as WoU doesn't have good defense ability
never let these two op each other 💀
Could you do a video about rating jojo stands drip?
The fact of the matter is that GER's ability, RTZ, is an automatic response to being attacked. It activates on attacks or attackers with the will to attack.
This is something both abilities share in common: A vulnerability in the activation of their ability to stop a target from hurting them. However, Wonder Of U's is more effective than GER's because
A: It doesn't require an attack or attacker, only 'pursuit'
B: Wonder Of U's passive defense ability automatically doubles with offensive capabilities. When you attack GER, you are simply returned to before your attack landed. In WOU's case, you are simply killed or injured to stop your pursuit.
The reason Wonder Of U would triumph in this fight isn't because Wonder Of U is stronger than GER, nor that the two would infinitely cancel each other and end up tying until Giorno dies of old age.
The fact of the matter is that 'Calamity' can't be constituted as an attacker or an attack, no matter how you perceive it. In any scenario where Giorno knows who the head doctor is he loses.
Nobody he can send after Tooru/the head doctor would be able to kill him, and Giorno himself can't rely on RTZ because quite frankly RTZ wouldn't help him evade calamity as it doesn't deem Calamity as an attack.
So it's a lose-lose situation then. If Calamity keeps escalating then it'll reach a point where the entire world is destroyed by an asteroid and both of them either die or exist in a vacuum. Even if the world doesn't end it's an eternal stalemate. A conflict that never ends til the end of time. It'll take an act of God to stop the conflict.
It would just be stalemate😂😂
Not even WoU slaps GER.
@@reflex9238No
Wonder of U is stated to be the strongest villain Stand, surpassing D4C Love Train which is stated to transcend dimensions in the JoJoveller guidebooks, a statement which GER doesn't have. So Wonder of U slaps GER, and even if we say he could GER only activates when someone has the intention of harming Giorno, and since Calamities are automatic this intention doesn't exist and Giorno would be hit with the Calmaity. No matter how you spin it GER gets stomped massively.
No
@@dbsdbz- gonna backup you're claim
@@l0sts0ul89 ger can revert every action that would harm giorno to zero so his enemy can never attack him and just stands still and ger rtz ability doesn't have strength limit
@@dbsdbz- it actually needs to know the action, rain can kill you, and it isn't fast enough to break through every drop. That's just one possible death via WoU
@@dbsdbz- nope he wasn’t able to reverse the effects of MIH, so RTZ only activates when someone has intent to harm Giorno, this is confirmed by Araki in both JoJoveller and JoJo A Go Go. Given how RTZ is causality manipulation to prevent fated actions, this would be a type of space-time manipulation given how things in 3D move within the flow of time, making the ability universal+ or 4D at max. Calamity is infinite 4D or multiversal+ given its statement of being stronger than Love Train which can be put at multiversal, or high 4D.
Anime capsule if your reading this I love your videos and they always make my day but I have one question for you. Do you think jojojlands will be the last part
Yes. I don't necessarily think Araki will kick the bucket but he's getting pretty old. He may want to retire after this
@@BUR404 I think we will part 10 since there’s one Joestar who doesn’t have a alternate universe version that being jolyne kujo after part 10 I think the series will end plus ten is a nice round number
The JoJo world will end. So it would be Tuesday then?
“Nuh uh”
“Yuh huh”
“Nuh uh”
“Yuh huh”
“Nuh uh”
“Yuh huh”
“Nu u…
soft...and...wet...go...beyond...
All that just to get soloed by Ikki kuorgane
We needed that video but I don't understand do you mean that wou will win or nobody will win I mean ger can't be touched but in the same time wou can't be touched as well
GER is getting stomped in power and the fact that he can't activate RTZ, since it only activates to those that have intent to harm Giorno, and since the Calamities are automatic this intention doesn't exist and Giorno would be hit with the Calamities. Araki has also stated that WoU is the strongest villain Stand which puts it above Love Train who's stated to transcend dimensions according to the JoJoveller Guidebook.
Neither would win. Both of them wouldn’t be able to get close to each other and the only one taking the L in the end would be us
@@BUR404 you say that but gave no scaling to GER, and ignored the fact that GER only activates to those who have the intention of harming Giorno which Calamity won’t do given its automatic nature.
@@reflex9238ger doesn't just activate with will, that's one of the things that makes it activate.
The effect of an action will trigger rtz if it will harm giorno
The will of a person even before the effect (stabbing, shooting etc...) will trigger rtz.
Calamity cannot be reverted since its neither of those however, whatever it manipulates, has an effect.
For example, if it made a knife drop from a shelf onto giornos head, the knife itself will be seen as a threat and will get the rtz treatment.
If Calamity makes a stone on the floor explode (cuz why not), then ger would revert the effect, thus it never happened.
@@reflex9238let's say giorno manages to get hit with an attack. He doesn't control rtz.
Ger will simply revert the effect the moment it sees giorno is in danger. This is why the battle will be a stalemate. Even if it was something intangible like gravity, ger will simply revert the effect. Thus gravity had never changed.
hot takes
In my eyes, calamity probably just wouldn't count as a direct attack, so GER probably couldn't revert it, and Giorno loses.
Mmm I don't know, as the video says, Ger's ability can affect objects, so it could reverse the action of the objects.
Ger stated itself If I remember that as long as a action that happens could harm giorno it will he rested to zero
Giorno doesn't revert Calamity, but the causes of the calamity. Calamity isn't an object... So yeah, still nothing can resist Giorno's RTZ
Sorry WOU would stomp easy
The stomp never occurred
Wou vs ger is not that big wou wins because ger falls in the line of logic what do i mean ger ability is automatic it activate to remove the cause of an action that wants to damage giorno but as we know giorno and the arrow are logical entities and again as we know wou controlled gappy to hit mamezuku so a wou calamity eventually would simply reverse ger effects or do smt about them beating giorno
Logic can't reverse causality. Watch the whole video again. They're like Yin and Yang. Can't be separated nor merged
Isn’t Ger above fate, and wouldn’t Wou’s calamity attacks be a part of fate
God bless you and Jesus loves you so very very much ♥
WoU would win
GER wins cause it can reset the calamity manipulation and attack.
That wouldn’t work because ger is only able to reset physical things. He wouldn’t be able to reset calamity itself, and he can’t go in for the attack because then wou would just karma all over again
@@doctorx2307This, ger would not reverse the calamity itself but rather would restore the effects of the calamity like having a stone thrown at you and that
Too bad, people with low IQ would thought GER will win against Wonder Of U. They need to understand how GER rtz work first. Fact rtz and calamity manipulation are a automatic ability, so yeah Kaato could through rtz easily
Says the one who doesn't understand how simple grammar works🌚wonder of u just puts u in danger,we have seen enemies survive from the attack,anything that is about to harm giorno instantly gets rtz
Don't forget ger himself states he is above space and time and this ability activates when giorno is in danger,anything that harms giorno gets reverted even calamity
@@dillonfasuan5836 I may have bad grammar but at least I understand how GER abilities work unlike you. Just assume rtz work on space and time. Blud thought he is Araki 💀
Manga
Destructive: none
Speed: none
Range: none
Persisntence: none
Precision: none
Growth: none
Anime
Destructive: null
Speed: null
Range: null
Persistence: null
Precision: null
Growth: null
Null=Unknown
@@dillonfasuan5836 rtz aren't effect time. Proof- fate following time and the only way to make "that fate" doesn't happen, is by reset people action without effecting the time. About fate following time has been approved on JJBA: Stone Ocean. If you don't understand how fate on JJBA works, then you probably aren't fully know how KC work. Another thing, automatic stand like Bohemian Rhapsody, Super Fly, Cheap Trick, Osiris, Atom, Wonder Of U, Sugar Mountain, Marilyn Manson and Notorious could beat GER easily. As long those stand doesn't have a purpose on harming Jorno, they could throught rtz. Rtz is an automatic ability. Proof- before he punch Jorno, he got rtz. If rtz aren't an automatic ability, then Jorno would've got donut
@@dillonfasuan5836
List of a stand that could logically beat GER:
Soft & Wet [Go Beyond] (definitely)
Tusk Act 4 (maybe)
Wonder Of U (definitely)
Super Fly
Cheap Trick
Marilyn Manson
Sugar Mountain
Death 13
Osiris
Atom
Man In The Mirror
Made In Heaven (time traveling)
Notorious B.I.G (maybe)
Bohemian Rhapsody
California King Bed
Boy II Man
The World Over Heaven (not canon but ok)
Highway To Hell
King Crimson (kinda)
Sun
yeah pretty sure GER can just revert anything that stops it from reaching wonder of you to 0 and then just trap wonder of you in a infinite death loop or simply never allow it to revive by returning that action to 0. It would also prevent all world ending actions and attacks to 0 as well stopping them. So wonder of you might destroythe planet a few times but ger just reverts his ass to 0
You do know that wonder-of u controls all logic right and return to zero falls under logic. And also wonder of u ability’s works on a multiversal+ scale proof tusk act 4. The infinite rotation of tusk works on a multiversal+ this is shown when he bypasses dc4 love train ability which is made up of infinite universes. The infinite rotation by valentine was referred to as a calamity. Yea I think you know where I’m going with this so I’m am not going to explain more. Ger if you what to high ball it.ability only works on a universal scale. So the return to zero ability even without the whole thing about wonder of u controlling all logic would be completely useless.
That could've happened, if Giorno somehow hit WoU after all fight that Calamity itself doesn't have an object to throw at Giorno. Remember Calamity isn't an object, Calamity will stays there but nothing will happen really
GER wins and it's not even close
Theres literally no way GER is on the same level as WoU bruh
What do you mean ger is literally one of the strongest stands in jojo
@@TTALS64 yeah, but wou is wou. the only thing that could even defeat him is soft and wet go beyond since he specifically has the properties to beat him
@@Georgefloydthesneedster well ger cant beat wou, you could say that wou beats ger for the sole reason of it being force in the world which will never truely die, but if ger can just spam rtz then it will be a cycle with no winner
@@SchankmandOG a lot of stands are like this, its quite similar to wou vs d4c lt, but because of the nature of wou if his opponent makes even one mistake(such as valentine leaving the dimensional barriers for example), its over
@@Georgefloydthesneedster the problem is that wou only has 1 weakness that only afew stands have which makes it even more op if we pin it against stands from before part 7 (like in the video ger)
wou gets reverted ggs
GER having the passive ability to nullify willpower gives him the win against WoU. It’s basically making Toru lose any will to fight or defend himself which leads to toru either not calling out WoU or he turns WoU off just to get put into a infinite death loop.
I didnt expect less after seeing ur pfp lol WoU claps GER in every way
@@swaggyblox1041not even. Its clearly a stalemate, assuming ger can spam rtz, which would make sense otherwise what's the point
the trigger is the chase, not Tooru's will
In fact the calamity does not depend on Tooru's willpower, it is activated as long as someone "chases" him.
Wonder of U wins. Calamity is a natural function of the universe. GER couldn't stop the flow of calamity. He only stops any actions taken against Giorno. Calamity is similar to gravity, GER couldn't stop that