All subjective. I've played a ton of PoE and continue to do so every season. However, for me, it's turned into complete crap over the years. Hate the direction it's gone in and honestly if diablo *would* expand more and add more, it will be pretty good. The feel of D4 is MUCH better than PoE. Spamming thousands of fusing to 6 link a piece of shit to play something i want is garbage and i can't stand it. People complain about D4's loot and yet you need a loot filter that removes 99% of the crap that drops in PoE and that's "fine". Most of the time you have no idea what's even going on in PoE. Just blasting screens. People love that it seems but again, subjective and i personally don't like that. They're all ARPG;s and i like the feel of smashing tons of mobs but i think D4 has the right amount of mobs to smash ratio and knowing what's going on, on your screen. At the end of the day, look at it this way, we have more choice than 1 game to play season after season, so we as players win in the end!
All the recent arpgs is why I’m so excited for poe2. GGG will be watching LE just like EHG learned from D4 and PoE. It’s a great time to be into arpg’s
I think this graph is spot on as I have played all 3 and can’t wait for 1.0 launch. I like the skill system and how much detail there is without being overwhelmed. Thanks for the vid breaking it down for us.
Disagree. It's rare that a graph about enjoyment plateau like that. It's even more rare that it start at 0 enjoyment. Actually d4 should start higher , grow when you discover the story and stop and start dipping after the story ended. D4 enjoyment growth makes no sense. Especially when aside from the story it's littered by annoying roadblock about finding X y a to get skillpoints and unlocks and whatnot Poe would start lower, but also have a huge dip at 0 enjoyment very quickly representing to make it or break it for those who would actually push through. Past that dip is rise very, very fast, WAY faster than D4 and more constantly until you get to the very end game after 2-3 seasons and you had time to play everything and you are just in for the grind/new build. Where it plateau and enter a wave graph from season to season.
@@demitsuru POE leveling eats dicks. I'm not here for leveling. I'm here for endgame. All 3 eat dicks. Diablo 3 had the best leveling system. You or a friend has to suffer the grind ONCE. Then you both can have as many alts as possible while running each other, and it takes zero time whatsoever to reach max level. I couldn't care less about the story of ANY arpg, never have, never will. If I care enough, there's lore vids on YT. I want to get to screen deletion levels of power ASAP. I don't care about the rest.
@@demitsuru D4 has the best campaign experience as far as I can tell > LE > POE. POE campaign is bad ever since the Archnemesis mod replaced old mods resulting the campaign way to annoying & disgusting, espeically to player who play blindly. I bet a new player don't know about the recipe of +1 skills gem / %phy dmg weapon when they running through the poe campaign blind lol
also to complete my first comments on a different subject, when I played POE i tried to do it my self (no build guide) it was a mistake, then I did like 1-2 character following a build it was woking ! but I felt like I was playing someone else game maybe because i didnt really understand what i was doing. In Last Epoch even if I follow a guide I understand so much faster what is the goal that I can deviate from the build to play my own.
I agree. I tried no build but didn’t feel that powerful, tested a build that did feel powerful but didn’t enjoy the play style, so after playing a little bit and understanding it better I tweaked the build and very much enjoyed it
100% agree with you the enjoyment of the game comes when you playing your own creation of character, for me PoE can’t be taken seriously if you Don’t have 1500h at least, just imagine Addon for build , addon for trading, macros,filterade, following someone else build and then saying the game have so many options.. when most of the people follow one thing blindly without even understanding why..
Yeah I see influencers say to go in blind in PoE that is a terrible idea - for a newbie you 100% should be following a guide it will help you learn the game mechanics and then later you can make your own build. I know Darth himself went in blind but in reality the chat helped him so much he might as well have used a guide.
I didn't enjoy D4 at the start. I thought early lvling was painful. Their builder/spender design is terrible. D4 was a flatline from start to finish. Meanwhile at level 6 in LE my paladin can WW aka Warpath infinitely. No need to generate resources with a basic attacks, or spam shouts to spin. Just fun from the start with great skill design that make the play through really amazing. Where D4 is a non stop resource slog of bad design that you try to fix with gear eventually. Builder/spender game design sucks. To be clear D4 campain is good but that doesn't make it fun from the start. Class design makes the game fun from lvl 1. ARPGs are all about Class design and Loot.
Le gets your build online so fast and then just improves it over time. This is absolutely essential for people to have a good time. D4 builds are so goddamn gated behind ultra rare drops you’re never going to get as a casual anyway, it’s truly ridiculous.
I love how you can mostly just pick an offensive skill that you enjoy and then center your entire build around complimenting that ability. Great design.
Yeah, streamers love regurgitating this idea that D4 is actually the most fun early. How? What fucking game are people playing? If we are going to compare it to LE or PoE, the line is well below both from start to finish, including the cringe story that gets a pass because it has a couple cool cut scenes.
This is actually one of the biggest problems I have with PoE. Many builds either don't feel good until you get a ascendancy, key passive, item, or support gem. Some are so bad that until you reach that point you're better off using another skill until then.
My perspective of primarily playing D4 in recent memory (have not played since s2 before Christmas) going into Last Epoch I was blown away by how fun my character got so early. By around lvl 25 my warpath void knight felt more fun and more complete than like a lvl 80 WW barb. I was super bummed to realize the servers are down for 1.0 prep when I got home from work today. I'm definitely going to get at least 100 hours out of Last Epoch launch.
well at least in last epcoch playing offline is a option which is nice during server down time or when u have unstable net and all that. but i agree with u i had the same feeling with last epoch when i tried it after D4.
it's been a while since launch, but i got around 10h on my druid in LE, and the game genuinely bores me to death. :( the combat feels so clunky... looks like a mashup between poe1 and d3. and the info required to perfect the gameplay from the player perspective is much bigger than d4, which is not intuitive, makes it more uncompelling.
I played like an hour on Druid after leveling to 60 so far on a rogue and I just couldn’t, early Druid felt terrible. Blade master rogue has been exactly how I want and imagine a melee focused rogue to play in a video game.
Feels pretty accurate as a long time PoE player and now having played D4 and LE. Looking forward to see what LE endgame will give us as the cycles are released.
@@jayzdawg3111 it was a game that (at launch at least) started to plateau halfway through the campaign, rather than after. (and had a lot of bugs and balance issues.)
@@jayzdawg3111If you like challenging multi-phase boss fights, then Wolcen is your game. But that is part of the issue- the rest of the game is easy peasy. It was janky af to play at launch but did have nice graphics and sound design.
Your D4 fun graph is pretty spot on for me. I play each season and complete the journey, but it's around 80-85 that I realize I'm only then just checking the journey boxes off, but not caring about the content anymore. Still like the game and all, but it needs the itemization overhaul and something else in endgame. The get this key to do this boss for this key is not my favorite loop.
hopefully leaderboards fix this issue. its the one thing for that its lacking. because once i get to around 90 im like welp not really anything left to go for. If there were leaderboards i would be like im gonna try to push much further to see if i can get a high rank. which in turn would be more gameplay out of a character
@@simony9611 1-2 days I get bored of PoE and and Last Epoch because the lackness of control smoothness and graphics, which oddly enough D4 excels in buttons smash and graphics/audio quality.
I was going to ask where Grim Dawn fits in, but I realized its already on the graph; the Fun index line, that is full vertical, thats the Grim Dawn line. Fun all the way through!
This is the best, most concise summary of these 3 games that could possibly exist. In this short of form. I've played all 3 games, and I can only hope new comers to all 3 games see this summary. It is beyond accurate. TY for the content sir!
PoE is 11 years old, LE is 5 years old and D4 is 9 months old. Give D4 4 more years and then compare again. Does anyone remember PoE at 1 years old or LE at 1 years old?
As a slight counter point I think there are different type of arpg players. I think for hyper minmaxers I completely agree with your assessment, but I think I'd actually swap the last epoch and POE graphs for someone like myself who are (serial rerollers/love to try out new builds). While you definitely can reroll a character in POE I find a couple issues: 1) You need to be on trade - cause if you're doing it in SSF you're mostly swapping across your gear and only changing a couple things outside of grinding for the equivalence of a week irl 2) Trading takes quite a bit of time and its a bit of annoyance to have to spend 20-30 minutes outside the game looking up items, planning a pob, etc 3) Most builds are not your own creation and are merely copying an existing POB and maybe with some game knowledge tweaking a few items, clusters, or skill points (This is actually a big plus though in SSF where you have to be creative since items are limited) For someone like myself, who just wants to sit down at the end of the day blast some maps and quickly configure my own builds I find the enjoyment for last epoch keeps going for quite a while. In the same time it takes me to clear content, farm up currency and clear uber bosses I can have online and fully running 4-5 of my own custom builds in Last Epoch. I"m not saying this is better or worse overall, just for me I find that sooo much more interesting and exciting upon reflection than that mid point of POE where i'm basically just logging on to grind currency to then trade away or gamble on crafts in (SSF). Lastly, I think POE in particular for some people can have a very sharp drop because theres not full deterministic crafting. I've kinda just become deflated at the end of leagues sometimes when you attempt to craft some awesome item and the rng gods just aren't on your side. You then have to look forward to a few more hours of time to grind currency just to attempt said craft again with no assurances it'll work.
I hate using build guides and I am so glad there's so much build diversity being advertised in LE and I love that they are juicing drops for SSF players. Modern ARPGs need to respect our time a bit better especially as the demographic for them is basically ages 25-45. POE and D4 both expect a ton of grinding if you are min/maxing, which is fine to an extent but I am hopeful LE strikes a good balance and am looking forward to hopping in for the first time.
Ain't no way you're coming up with a Poe build in 20-30 minutes lmao. That junk can literally take days and then you can do one wrong thing and completely brick your build.
@@rockygillman6404 That's precisely waht I was getting at. You can try and do a poe build in 30 minutes, but its gonna often be garbage unless you really know your shit. Even for someone like me (have 4k+ hours) to reroll a build and come up with my own build would take me like 3+ hours. But often, I'm using poe ninja finding a bunch of different peopels builds then messing around w/ them in path of building to figure out my upgrade path.
My take on the graph is: D4: Pretty much agree super enjoyable campaign games feeling great and then I think every time I hit level 80 I completely lose interest because there's nothing I'm going after. I haven't played since they added the extra ubers and stuff so I dunno if it feels any better but I'm the kind of person who needs a goal and I kind of stop having any reason to progress pretty fast in D4. PoE: The starting experience is awful, but I'd say the enjoyability ramp happens when you hit the point where you can actually play your build. For example in the current league I found a way to league start as a coc ice nova build right at level 38 and so I was having a great time really early. What I hate is when I feel like I need to play some unfun leveling / league start build that isn't the build I want to play all the way into maps before I can swap to what I want to play. The enjoyability of poe drops off a cliff as soon as I reach my goal, so generally I play until I do all the new pinnacle content and then my motivation is gone and I stop playing for the league. LE: Again agree with you in that its less enjoyable starting out than d4 but more than poe, campaign isn't great but the gameplay feels good and you can usually transition into your build pretty early. Where I differ is imo the enjoyability drops off a cliff at end game. I think I've only ever made it to like 90 on a character with the few I played because there's nothing to progress towards. The monolith system lacks a lot for me, there's no pinnacle boss content or anything that's that looming end game goal I'm grinding power for, its just... make the greater rift / nightmare dungeon / corruption level higher for the sake of it. The maps in the monolith system are too fast with the objectives to be enjoyable for me as well, I feel like I spend more time in load screens than playing.The arena and side dungeons were... fine... but again not enjoyable enough for me to want to keep grinding away in them at the moment. This game feels a lot like D4 for now where it has a lot of potential but it needs time for them to build it out. Aaand that's where I'm at. Excited to see what they did for LE 1.0 since people are saying it looks a lot better. Imagine I'm going to get a few days out of it hit end game and run into the same problems then put it down until the next update. Which is fine, I'm not one of those people who needs to get married to a single game and have it take all my time forever.
Your issue with PoE is that you're playing trade league. You don't need any "league start" builds in SSF and it takes way longer to reach any goal. And the game isn't all about farming for currency to buy random shit from other players.
@@Котик_Подвальный My problem there is I'm very limited on the kinds of builds I enjoy in poe with how shallow the combat is and how bad most of the skills feel (I hate stutter stepping) and ssf makes finding certain build enabling uniques extremely unlikely. Which loops right back into my enjoying playing the build I'm going for as early as possible. I try to play ssf-ish in trade and craft what I can etc etc but I CBA grinding away on a build I don't enjoy to get the thing I need to make the build I want to play function.
@@laoch5658 I don't get why people say d4 campaign is better than LE campaign the story in LE is way better imo. Blizz hasn't been the same story tellers since 2010 or 12. People living in the 2000s blizz world in 2024
@@CubeInspector LE does not have amazing Cutscenes and Voice acting that D4 does. Most people arent willing to read the story so if they dont put most of the story in cutscenes most people will not engage with the story. I for one have no clue what the story in the LE campaign is but I watched and enjoyed the D4 campaign.
This is a great way of summarizing the differences. It's also a good illustration of why different people love different games. (I also suspect it's why many game reviewers defend D4--most of them don't have tons of time to sink into any one game, so they just walk away with the best possible impression of D4).
Like you said at 8:00 minutes, I am the one deciding where to invest my limited playtime after a day of work. Based on your graph and assessment, D4 makes the most sense and why I like it the most out of the 3 options. Different lifestyles = different favored game. That’s it.
As someone else who doesn’t really have the time to grind like I used to, I still found D4 to be a bit dull and hollow after a month of playing it. If you started playing it an hour every day after work today you’ll likely find yourself plateauing by the end of March. After playing both, I gotta say Last Epoch is a much better game for half the price that still fits your lifestyle as the systems don’t get too complicated. I’m only a few weeks in and I can already tell there’s more longevity to the experience than D4.
@@Guthbox I guess I just have an affinity to Diablo franchise since I played D2 for like 10 years then another 2 years of D2R, skipped D3 and so D4 is like homecoming
850 hours, can't wait for 1.0. I played PoE for 2khours+, big D2 fan. Last Epoch is the future, maybe PoE2 will be even better, we'll see. Personally, due to the ease of starting a new character and the sheer number of builds that are unique,fun, viable, easy to try on your own of Last Epoch, It made me spend a lot of time into it. Imo, PoE is too much work to keep interested in. After a season, I'm burnt out for a year, but eventually the mechancis are too hard to keep up with, alongside new items, skills etc. Never really got into crafting either. Doesn't mean that it's worse, but I don't wanna have to scour the internet for guides, etc.
@Banjall they already said they're looking into that. It just isn't a priority because unlike d4 they understand having gameplay loops are more important than having the ability to have a pen15 I'm sure if you could go back and have diablo 4 release with more stash tabs, in exchange for character customization, you'd make that choice. Honestly what matters in an arpg is how the loot looks. You basically never see your char 😅
@@jetman8856 as was every Diablo before the latest one. Grim Dawn/Titan Quest allow sex selection, but they don't really have classes, either, just skill sets.
I have not played Last Epoch, but I have played Diablo 4 and POE. I fell right into the "POE became overwhelming quickly and I quit" crowd. I have just about 100 hours in Diablo and I have enjoyed every single one, while I only played POE for maybe 30 hours. Yes I am a casual ARPG enjoyer, and I have found that exactly what DM keeps saying is very accurate, Diablo is meant for the casuals and I have quite enjoyed it that way.
It does not look like PoE2 will be easier at the start😂 From what the devs have said it looks like it will be easier to understand for new players. But the design of the game and bosses looks very souls like (and with the difficulty that that entails)
@@lavq7000 While it may resemble those souls like games in terms of prounounced and telegraphed attacks that are dodgeable (with a new dodge roll mechanic no less), I'm guessing the tuning at exilecon has a lot of people thinking it POE2 will be harder than it actually will be. Challenging, maybe on your first few playthroughs, but gamers will figure it out quick as they often do, and I don't think POE is aiming to scare people away from the game by stopping their progress with a boss they can't finish. Sure there will be "git gud" memes early on in the game's lifespan, but I think that will pass, especially since we'll have picked up far better gear than people had at exilecon by the time we face the bosses they did AND it's also likely our builds will be better than the cookie cutter testing builds they threw into that demo. If NOTHING else, GGG will have learned from the negative reaction by some players thinking the game was too slow or difficult for their liking, and have plenty of time to address that between last year's exilecon, a full REAL beta, and launch.
I've tried it after seeing some friends played it and jumped in, it's exactly what I've been wanting in an ARPG since diablo 2. I used to love d2, back in the day, which is why I was sad I don't like POE. POE commits a few cardinal sins, the main one being: don't get in the players way of running around and clicking monsters. What? Skill gems? Then you fiddle around but then you realise that you can't possibly plan out a proper build, and then there's an ascendency. So what happens? You end up doing the OPPOSITE of what the skill tree was designed for, you follow pre-made, cookie cutter builds just like you did in diablo 2, except now it's 10x less fun and more punishing. Either give players the ability to experiment if you're going to literally design the game that way, or just don't bother. Last Epoch feels like, to me, the FIRST worthy successor of D2 that lives up to its quality. I'm surprised it took so long for it to happen (20 years?). The leveling is actually fun, and less intrusive, and you actually have the ability to experiment freely with your builds, while having to lock into your mastery/ascendancy. I feel like this is a completely fair trade off as you only have to make each character once, within that spec.
The points about committing to multiple characters over time in PoE & enjoyability are spot on. I'd also add that you probably have to follow build guides in order to get over the humps, so you can tell the difference between a weak setup, vs. something that is viable into the deeper layers of endgame. Enjoyability tanks if you can't push into red maps and bossing without dying all the time.
Multiple characters in PoE is a Bless and a Curse at same time. Killing the same tutorial bosses statistically once in a month for almost a ten years can be devastating.
@@Th1sUsernameIsNotTaken Fair. Just personally I don't think I'd be able to craft a viable build on my own without first running through some good ones so I could learn how different mechanics interact in powerful ways.
@@blamelessphysician Makes sense, and there's nothing wrong with that. I just found myself not caring for "meta" or "right" builds even if it's what I wanted to play, because essentially someone else did it for me. Plus it makes discovering things FAR more rewarding (for me). I'll still look up certain recipes (can't be asked to remember all that), or how certain things interact with one another (or lack thereof), as I don't want to try combining something just to realize it doesn't work. Definitely can't wait for PoE2 where most will basically be at that starting line together, trying to figure out all of its mysteries :p
You're forgetting to mention the PhD titles and libraries you need to scour to be able to play PoE. Doing it without a guide as a new/relatively new player can easily result in a dead character that can't even complete the campaign, let alone even participate in the endgame. That's the part that's truly unenjoyable and has kept PoE from being truly good for years now. Hopefully last epoch will provide what I'm looking for.
I did fine without scouring information or even using guides in PoE. Struggling with a build, means you learned a lot from your experiments. Acquiring knowledge over time is not a bad thing or less fun. The possibilities are endless, although not equally effective, doesn't mean less fun. That said, if you can't finish the campaign no matter how hard you tried to screw up, it is probably not a game for you.
When you make that kind of graph it would be usefull to give a genenal amount of time played so we undestand how much we have to invest before we reach your level of enjoyment
@@RamzaBehoulveThis is pretty accurate. But I'd add that LE is never far behind D4. And if you liked D3... you might just like LE more right out the gate.
@@jimdshea I don't want to insult anyone so i take myself as joe average playing Path of Exile since beta i can honestly say that i still can't craft without using websites as path of crafting. It's complex and i miss a better system to sell your stuff as well all must be done between players using a selling tab you have to purchase with money. It's an annoying system give me an auction house i shouted for 13 years. But the rest when you master it is so much fun and engame is fast and like 99% of the game. Going to try Last Epoch heard they have a better trading system a bit less complex (for now) which i welcome. The question will be how much endgame is there and is it fun? But you got to give it time to see how it develops.
@@randar1969 Auction house will be a nightmare, because flippers could easily corner the market very quickly, leaving players with only overinflated prices.
To make a note here: Last Epoch has been the one of all of these where I keep wanting to make a new character to try out new things more than anything else. That used to be PoE for me, but now it's LE. I still love PoE, but I haven't the patience or temperament for it these days.
Campaign is the best thing in D4. Yet you only play it once ever, then never again. Unless you want to be inefficient. I'd like if you had to do the campaign every season at least.
I got through it twice.. couldn't finish T4 was falling asleep. Think I got to LVL 73? The end game is so dull.. but I agree I had fun and got my moneys worth with the campaign.
The biggest problem with Diablo 4 is a grind. Glyphs still takes too much time even after buff. Starting next characters is painfull time consumer on loop in dungeons which burns out people quickly.
until you reach some goals. i loved this league and was so excited when I dropped a mirror, but found the urge to play went away once i had more currency than i knew what to do with
Totally agree with this graph! I’d be curious if you added/accounted for replay ability such as how fun can change because someone wants to make multiple characters in a league.
Just hit 68 in LE and was blasting the monolith. Cant wait to start a warlock and get my hands warmed up to that, runner up will be a falconer. Overall this game has captured me and my imagination / time lot better than POE and for sure Diablo 4 (at the wt4 mark). Can't wait to see 1.0 patch and the changes coming to LE.
This game has better class fantasy than PoE, which definitely helps. Plus building a character is more intuitive, so you can really capture what kind of character you want. Add in the ability to target farm unique to support niche builds and you have a nice character progression curve.
I felt the psychic force of all my boys screaming "LETS FUCKING GO!!!" at once last night... There has been legitimate weeping from the hopeium made manifest on this great day. We're back boys. Gigantic returns in April See you there.
Some thoughts from a casual dad gamer who has about 2-3 hours to game every other night so ~12 hours per week: For Diablo 4 I've made it about 3/4 of the way through the campaign on one character and am Lvl 43 on my seasonal character. I'm only WT2 and I'm not sure if I'm going to keep grinding to WT3. The grind just isn't that fun as all of my legendary gear is getting outclassed by blue gear. I've tried my hand at crafting and adding stuff but it's just not doing it for me. Also the skill tree is super boring (I've tried all of the classes to lvl 20 so far) and the battle pass only being leveled by doing specific activities and not just getting XP is kind of lame. For Path of Exile I tried it and have two characters and they're only lvl 15 or so. The skill tree was cool but I was overwhelmed by all of the different currencies and felt like I would have to spend way more time than I have available to me to research and read wikis / watch tutorial videos. I've decided to try POE2 when that comes out with the hope that I'll be able to learn with everyone else when it drops. For Last Epoch, I'm super excited to try it out as everyone says it's a good middle ground between the two. Fingers crossed for a good 1.0 launch tomorrow!
Hi. You will be juust a little bit overwhelmed with Last Epoch also because you need to have a build in mind in order for it to work ( and you can choose from 4 passive trees simoultanousely). But the good news is it's fun and you can respec easily. (not the mastery though)
@@Anomalyn1 I'm not 100% on the skills offered, but right now I have my eye on starting as a Sentinel and going the Paladin mastery route with skills centered on either fire damage / holy power and defense.
This a amazing - great guide and spot on IMO. DM thank you for all the content. It is REALLY amazing to me to see that Yellow Line for a game that is releasing tomorrow. Really makes me sad about D4 even more.
I got my friend to start playing POE during this season (Affliction). She has had an absolute blast and played so much that we both decided to take a break after about 1.5 months and maybe 300 hours at least in play time. She has told me that when she first started she wanted to "do it herself", and I told her: don't. So after going like 30 levels into her first character she respeced into a character from a build guide and started having tons of fun. She eventually made I think 3 total characters this season. So, the one thing I'll point out is that POE is hard and a new player can absolutely have a ton of fun, but because the game is so complex, I think every new player would benefit a lot from having a build guide and having some hand holding. I think DM himself started having a lot more fun when he started seeking help from the PoE community like Ghazzy. Because his knowledge went up and thus the enjoyment of the game. My 2 cents.
My two cents are in complete contrast to yours I'm afraid. I made an account and tried the game in 2018 and did exactly what you said. Tried following a build guide. I ended up leaving the game when my character was lvl 9. I found the process boring. Then, in the lat month of Expedition league I tried the game again, this time on Steam since I couldn't be bothered to recover my old account. And this time I just plaid the game, no build guides. And I had fun. I made it to rank 5 white maps before I started getting kicked really hard. Then the league ended and I tried a new character in the next league, made it to red maps if memory serves. Then I decided to try something else next league. Just one character a league and slow but fun progress. Build guide take all the fun out of the game for me. I had a look on what people said about Expedition league on the forum, and a lot of build guide following people were complaining new players were going to get stuck on Brutus and quit because of some of the nerfs Expedition brought. I got stock on Brutus. I then went back to town and had a look at the gems Nessa was selling. I knew she was selling gems, and the game had taught me how to use them. I bought SRS and Holly flame totem since they'd allow my Templar to attack from a distance , leveled them up a bit and beat Brutus - been a minion/totem user since; even when I tried an archer ended up using balistas. I played the game. I got stuck but knew how to find a solution. The build I'm using now is a meme guardian build. It's a version of the build I played last league with just a few changes that increase survivability. It's a result of multiple tries to improve at the game. Is it the best build ever? No. Can it do tier 16 8 mod maps? Yes. Am I still having fun with the game? also yes. Will I ever just go blindly follow a guide? never. I'd rather go to Poe Ninja, look at the top build for my ascendancy and ask myself why they use the gear they do and why they use the gems they use and go from there. And it's not looking and copying those builds but finding out why the make the choices they do that's what moves my build forward. I play poe to PLAY the game, not to have someone else play it for me. And making my own build is part of the fun of the game. It's the reason why I don't craft all that much in PoE. Crafting isn't fun, it's a random chance lottery and I don't play the lottery. And I know, I know, you can significantly decrees the chances of outcomes you don't want but that's like saying you can significantly increase the chance of winning the lottery by buying tens of thousands of tickets when the pot is large enough. If you and your friend think copying someone else's build is fun, more power to you, but for me, the literally worst advice I ever received in this game was "pick a witch and fallow a guide and you'll have fun". Mainly because the advice boils down to: don't pick a class that speaks to you or at random but this class I picked for you because I think it's good for new players, and don't play the game and learn it's mechanics but follow this guide someone else made so you can avoid having to learn how the game works and reduce the core gameplay loop to only killing enemies. But that's just my two cents.
@@AlucardNoir I appreciate your input. I do think that many players will eventually go to a wiki or a guide or watch RUclips to get a better grasp of the game mechanics. PoE is just too complex not to. I actually did a "blind" run right before Affliction because I hadn't played in about 2 or 3 years, and I was able to get to about level 85 with the knowledge I had from playing before and other arpgs. So absolutely it is possible and fun to get to red maps and beyond on your own. I just find build guides explain why certain mechanics work together and why others do not, and honestly at the end of the day: I don't really craft, I don't really strategize builds, I just run maps. Because I like to just mindlessly kill hordes of mobs. For strategy I play sims and strategy games.
D4 is doing a great job in the look and feel of the game, the campaign looks good and is fun to play, the combat feels really good in Diablo 4. POE's campaign is a bit boring and the game doesn't feels as soomth as D4, the combat doesnt feel impactfull untill your build start coming online, Diablo has that problem too but only on some druid/barb builds. Necro, sorc and rogue combat is instant fun in D4 imo. For Last Epoch I only played 30 hours in the beta so i cant really compare yet, what I can say is that he campaign and the combat is not a good as in D4, but from the start better then how POE feels. So overall I think for now that D4 has the best feeling combat and look and feel overal but worse end-game. POE has the most features and slowest start/campaign on the 3 but when you understand the game you can go crazy for unlimited time. LE I really hope that the look and feel of the game/combat comes close to D4 after the 1.0 update. Because I really think they made something grade, but i need to be honest that durning the beta i wasnt feeling the combat and look of the game as much as i was hoping for, the 1.0 trailer looks good, hopefully it feels as good tomorrow!
This, I found Last Epoch worst of the 3,it's not bad, but feels dated and combat is nowhere near D4, it's new so people are excited for it, I feel it will wane after a month
there's so many games. I still can't decide between path of exile, diablo 4, or last epoch. And playing all 3 feels like a waste of my time, or i dont have enough time to play all 3.
As an arpg fan that has extensively played all three, it was far easier to get into last epoch initially, but I'd definitely recommend at minimum, trying to get to maps in PoE and learning/understanding the map atlas and what the end-game progression system looks like. You will thank yourself for putting in the time.
In my personal graph, PoE would be at about a 0 until you get to maps. Then it becomes one of my top games of all time lol. There's a good chance each season that I quit before I get to endgame because of how much I hate going through the campaign and just can't be bothered. If I power through though, I become completely addicted for weeks and it's all I want to play.
Am I the only one who had more fun with Last Epoch right from the start (compared to Diablo)? No outdated character creation, no crappy generic system, no repetitive dungeons or pointless world quests. You feel a different atmosphere on every map. You reach level 2 and are confronted with a talent tree that gives you actual choices. When you reach level 4, you can choose a talent tree for a skill you like and start experimenting. Don't like a skill? Fine, just respect it and the fun starts all over again. Last Epoch is so much fun because you are constantly respecing, trying to fix things, building your character as you imagine it. Diablo 4 has none of that. I realised after one day that I was playing a generic pile of cash grabbing BS. Why does everyone keep saying that Diablo 4 is fun at the start and nice for casuals and so on when it is clearly not the case? The game would be nothing without the name. I am casual and every hour (which is a limited resource for me) I put into Diablo 4 felt wasted. Diablo 4 is just worse than PoE and LE right from the beginning. The point with PoE is that the graphics and mechanics are outdated a bit, what increases the boundry of entry for new players.
Not really. The chart only says "Game Time", not an actually hour amount. But also remember the chart is subjective for just DM and how the games felt to him specifically. Personally I was hooked on PoE after my first hour in the game, where as Diablo was boring to me from the very start.
That D4 graph is only valid for the very first time you play the game and even then this is generous, D4 should drop down to 0 quickly pretty ludicrous imo to say that PoE takes that long to overtake D4
Depends on the person. I felt like POE was trash from the start, and it took a long time to be engaging... Whereas Diablo felt more fun throughout the campaign and only fell off in end game. Last Epoch is a wonderful mesh of the two.
The real problem is understanding the base game mechanics. Understanding passives, gems, ascensions, and all the different crafting systems. So for NEW players its a slow start.
I haven't gone through the entire campaign of Last Epoch, but it's definitely better than Diablo 4's. I found Diablo 4's campaign predictable and boring.
d4 still shit, you cant hate path of exile, the game is literally free, and Last Epoch cost money but has many innovative feature that is good for the aRPG genre
I tried POE 4 times now. I just can't be bothered to learn this clusterfuck of a skill tree, and following builds is unfun to the extreme. I'm sure 200 hours in it gets good. But no, thank you, not for me. 😅 Really hoping LE is good. I think you are rightwith thisgraph, but the difference is - d4 and LE players will quit after their game have reached the apex. And for POE a lot of people quit before it even becomes enjoyable. Personally, the best ARPG that takes dozens if not hundreds of hours to become enjoyable - is the worst ARPG. 😮
This is why you're one of my favorite content creator's. Loved this, as someone who has dabbled in all these games and Grim Dawn and coming from the times of Champions of Norrath this is a pretty fair take. Good shit.
I completely disagree with the D4 “enjoyable right from the get go, which made it sell so well in the beginning.” The ONLY thing that saved D4, as soon as it was announced, was the brand of IP, that’s it. The campaign was okay at best. To think that D4 was ‘saved’ by, only the early game, is exceptionally coping.
True, d4 is slightly more enjoyable at first glance then you get your first character going and you hear some rumbling from the engine, lights start to blink on the dashboard, and by the time you hit lvl 70....the tires have come off and are rolling in 4 different directions as you break down on a deserted highway.
Made it to 98 in PoE with a Mageblood MF build this league. Leveled 3 toons to 100 in D4 this season with every Uber that dropped being used. I picked up Last Epoch again 2 days ago and leveled 2 toons into 90 Monos and wanted more until they shut down for launch today. I totally enjoy the LE experience and the whole timeline motif. Unlike D4 and especially PoE, build choice mistakes are easy to adjust and gear for. Thank you for your honest review. You're becoming one of the best reviewers out there.
I agree with most of it. D4 around level 30-35 plateaus a bit. You're still not getting legendary very often and only passives left to take on the skill tree. So your character will start to feel weak. This gets much better once you get into nightmare tier and start getting all your legendary aspects. At 70 the game dives straight to 0. I don't enjoy farming mats to do bosses and nightmare dungeons are the worst part of the game and you need to grind out 5-6 glyphs to 21. I usually just stop there and make something else or wait for the next season.
For me, last epoch is the 500kg bomb inside blizzard HQ, they've managed to make the skills "complexity" easier than diablo while making the interaction (such as support gems) in a much simplier way than PoE. But PoE keeps that special place for the freedom they allow in builds, were they allow any class to equip any item and any spells with any support gem Also blizzard sucks for delaying their uptade only in a attempt to crash last epoch release
Great video, really easy to take in and well explained :) one thing to remember is that you can get Heirloom Items from your first character to give to any alts so you can get back up to speed a lot quicker if you wanted to try a whole new class.
I was super hyped about LE. Actually, as a dad and having 8-5 job I tried to play today. You should comment on a launch, which was pretty bad, but probably everyone expected it. Hope I can play in the next few days without issues.
I like what you are doing. My one disagreement is that you simplify how many times you hit a wall in POE. There are many points where you hit a benchmark only to realize how many more there are, how much more there is to understand or farm.
I love how real you are, the fact you are aware enough of the different levels of gamers. From a couple hours a day to 100s a week and you mention both
I honestly feel like, the graph needs to be re-looked at after last epoch full 1.0 release, as your technically comparing a beta game with 2 full release games.
Perfectly explained. If i can add more to it. As a casual player. I repeat as a casual player who has work and family etc. Diablo 4 has been the best for me since release, still fun for me and i dont feel im left behind on anything. I tried poe but its just not for me as i have no time for it + it wasn't fun, im played games to have fun, if the get go is not fun then its not for me. Thats why poe is good for those who likes to read books spreadsheet all these details and have their fun later in game but for me its impossible. Hardcore player can achieve hes fun faster then i can because i wont have the same amount of time to play if we compared might take me years to reach the point of fun on poe that's why i dont like it. I respect the game and the players but sadly i feel i get harassed online from many poe players pointing fingers at me for playing diablo or just reading or hearing people complaint alot about diablo. As poe wilson said the game is not beginner friendly and is not for everyone. D4 is the same for the hardcore gamers. But i dont see d4 players complaining same way or bash on poe players like poe players does. The polite and respect is out of hand. Thank you for your great videos i love them.
I think it's pretty accurate from a first time play perspective. If you started at a person's second league with all 3, poe would ramp more like LE, LE wouldn't change much, and D4 would ramp less and peak earlier/lower. Imo - speaking as a highly invested poe player and casual LE player.
Last epoch is fun. I had like 2-2.5k hours in D3 played D4 for less than 50 and haven’t touched it since. Last epoch has kept my attention in playing and building new builds
this is such a great idea explaining how long it takes to enjoy a game and how long itll last. i finished the diablo 4 campaign enjoyed it alot but had no interest in the endgame content. i was worried last epoch would be the same. glad i found this channel!
Last Epoch is definitely worth the $35. QOL way superior to that $70 wannabe ARPG from Blizzard who are just cashing in on the hard work of ex-employees from 20 years before. The Diablo IP died with Diablo II, Diablo III had the real money auction house where Blizzard just wanted money from both sides of the fence. Diablo IV is pure shovelware aside from the great cinematics.
As someone who has been playing Diablo for almost 2 decades, and here and there with POE, Last Epoch was a bit of a refreshment, to be honest. Looking forward to the v1.0 D4 really bores me nowadays. LE is scratching the itch for now.
Perfectly articulated. I've played all 3. I quit D4 as soon as I finished the campaign, which I did really enjoy, and never plan to return. I've played probably 1000 or more hours of PoE over the last decade and it's the best but it's so demanding on your mental faculties, it feels like work sometimes when I just want to chill. Last Epoch strikes the balance, just like you mentioned, and I'm definitely planning on giving it a longer spin over the next few months.
Last Epoch Vs Diablo 4 Vs Path Of Exile
live daily: www.twitch.tv/darthmicrotransaction
All subjective.
I've played a ton of PoE and continue to do so every season. However, for me, it's turned into complete crap over the years. Hate the direction it's gone in and honestly if diablo *would* expand more and add more, it will be pretty good. The feel of D4 is MUCH better than PoE. Spamming thousands of fusing to 6 link a piece of shit to play something i want is garbage and i can't stand it. People complain about D4's loot and yet you need a loot filter that removes 99% of the crap that drops in PoE and that's "fine".
Most of the time you have no idea what's even going on in PoE. Just blasting screens. People love that it seems but again, subjective and i personally don't like that. They're all ARPG;s and i like the feel of smashing tons of mobs but i think D4 has the right amount of mobs to smash ratio and knowing what's going on, on your screen.
At the end of the day, look at it this way, we have more choice than 1 game to play season after season, so we as players win in the end!
Interesting! Where do you expect No Rest For The Wicked will end on your graph!?
You forgot the sudden drop off of interest in POE when you realize that dying takes exp away.
All the recent arpgs is why I’m so excited for poe2. GGG will be watching LE just like EHG learned from D4 and PoE. It’s a great time to be into arpg’s
I am really glad LE is out and is good and receiving so much praise. I think it is the overall winner re: price, fun and accessibility.
I think this graph is spot on as I have played all 3 and can’t wait for 1.0 launch. I like the skill system and how much detail there is without being overwhelmed. Thanks for the vid breaking it down for us.
Disagree. It's rare that a graph about enjoyment plateau like that.
It's even more rare that it start at 0 enjoyment.
Actually d4 should start higher , grow when you discover the story and stop and start dipping after the story ended.
D4 enjoyment growth makes no sense. Especially when aside from the story it's littered by annoying roadblock about finding X y a to get skillpoints and unlocks and whatnot
Poe would start lower, but also have a huge dip at 0 enjoyment very quickly representing to make it or break it for those who would actually push through.
Past that dip is rise very, very fast, WAY faster than D4 and more constantly until you get to the very end game after 2-3 seasons and you had time to play everything and you are just in for the grind/new build. Where it plateau and enter a wave graph from season to season.
why would POE start low? that is bullshit. i played all arpgs, and most of them have a good start. D4 is the best experience among them? No.
@@demitsuru POE leveling eats dicks. I'm not here for leveling. I'm here for endgame. All 3 eat dicks.
Diablo 3 had the best leveling system. You or a friend has to suffer the grind ONCE. Then you both can have as many alts as possible while running each other, and it takes zero time whatsoever to reach max level. I couldn't care less about the story of ANY arpg, never have, never will. If I care enough, there's lore vids on YT. I want to get to screen deletion levels of power ASAP. I don't care about the rest.
@@demitsuru because the 1st level doesn't feel as good and punchy or impactful as a D4/D3.
@@demitsuru D4 has the best campaign experience as far as I can tell > LE > POE. POE campaign is bad ever since the Archnemesis mod replaced old mods resulting the campaign way to annoying & disgusting, espeically to player who play blindly.
I bet a new player don't know about the recipe of +1 skills gem / %phy dmg weapon when they running through the poe campaign blind lol
also to complete my first comments on a different subject, when I played POE i tried to do it my self (no build guide) it was a mistake, then I did like 1-2 character following a build it was woking ! but I felt like I was playing someone else game maybe because i didnt really understand what i was doing. In Last Epoch even if I follow a guide I understand so much faster what is the goal that I can deviate from the build to play my own.
I agree. I tried no build but didn’t feel that powerful, tested a build that did feel powerful but didn’t enjoy the play style, so after playing a little bit and understanding it better I tweaked the build and very much enjoyed it
Path of Exile 2 apparently is going to be much easier to respec at earlier parts/levels of the game. I am super stoked for that,.
100% agree with you the enjoyment of the game comes when you playing your own creation of character, for me PoE can’t be taken seriously if you
Don’t have 1500h at least, just imagine Addon for build , addon for trading, macros,filterade, following someone else build and then saying the game have so many options.. when most of the people follow one thing blindly without even understanding why..
Yeah I see influencers say to go in blind in PoE that is a terrible idea - for a newbie you 100% should be following a guide it will help you learn the game mechanics and then later you can make your own build. I know Darth himself went in blind but in reality the chat helped him so much he might as well have used a guide.
Not to mention that to make the build made by others work you have to buy the gear found by others :)
It's crazy how accurate this actually is
How’s it accurate? There’s no way D4 is more enjoyable than the other 2 games at any point in time.
@@gzaf187 That's actually a good point 😂
@@gzaf187 its accurate bc d4 is enjoyable enough at the beginning to bring in non ARPG players in who can still enjoy the game
What data do you use to determine the accuracy?
@@gzaf187 disagree, first playthrough of D4 before level 70 was a really fun experience.
shoutout for using dark background for the graph!
I literally did this not to flash bang y’all on purpose hahah thanks for noticing
man, thanks a lot for considering people who watch your videos before sleep!
This is a fair POV on all three games.
Yeah, having played all 3 I can't disagree on the major points. I'd have some minor differences, but overall this seems like a good takeaway.
My life is complete.
We now have the Kahn Academy of video game reviews.
Love it!!!
Your *love* is complete? Your life...? 😄
Thanks for the 👀 on my grammar. Muchas Gracias
@@darkwhorse that's a spelling mistake, though. Not a grammar mistake 😅
@@darkwhorse spent more time on Kahn Academy than grammarly XD
lol
I didn't enjoy D4 at the start. I thought early lvling was painful. Their builder/spender design is terrible. D4 was a flatline from start to finish. Meanwhile at level 6 in LE my paladin can WW aka Warpath infinitely. No need to generate resources with a basic attacks, or spam shouts to spin. Just fun from the start with great skill design that make the play through really amazing. Where D4 is a non stop resource slog of bad design that you try to fix with gear eventually. Builder/spender game design sucks. To be clear D4 campain is good but that doesn't make it fun from the start. Class design makes the game fun from lvl 1. ARPGs are all about Class design and Loot.
Le gets your build online so fast and then just improves it over time. This is absolutely essential for people to have a good time.
D4 builds are so goddamn gated behind ultra rare drops you’re never going to get as a casual anyway, it’s truly ridiculous.
Yeah, setting and story goes to D4 for me but everything else is LE!
I love how you can mostly just pick an offensive skill that you enjoy and then center your entire build around complimenting that ability. Great design.
Yeah, streamers love regurgitating this idea that D4 is actually the most fun early. How? What fucking game are people playing? If we are going to compare it to LE or PoE, the line is well below both from start to finish, including the cringe story that gets a pass because it has a couple cool cut scenes.
This is actually one of the biggest problems I have with PoE. Many builds either don't feel good until you get a ascendancy, key passive, item, or support gem. Some are so bad that until you reach that point you're better off using another skill until then.
We out here spread sheeting our potential level of fun. You love to see it.
😂😂😂
Welcome to arpgs lol, spreadsheets are life
We are arpg players after all.
They say to show not tell... BUT
I like Show & Tell
I Love spoilers
I Must know HOW IT WORKS!
errr.... line graph
Was searching for homemade brew recipes and came across this. This is what I was really looking for. 👍
youtube sure is like this lol
My graph is a little different. For example D4 isn't on it.
😂
last epoch is a blast played all 3 i felt home playing LE and it will keep getting better with more updates
last epoch big update/full release is tomorrow should be good
wait until you play it for 2 months. then do a review again
@@krippaxxuseredarlordofthes9940 why, is it geting better?
@@markopamparelo9101 no, it s getting worse xD
Coming back to arpg after a good while (since Titan Quest 10 years ago), this video is exactly what I needed to know where to start
My perspective of primarily playing D4 in recent memory (have not played since s2 before Christmas) going into Last Epoch I was blown away by how fun my character got so early. By around lvl 25 my warpath void knight felt more fun and more complete than like a lvl 80 WW barb. I was super bummed to realize the servers are down for 1.0 prep when I got home from work today. I'm definitely going to get at least 100 hours out of Last Epoch launch.
well at least in last epcoch playing offline is a option which is nice during server down time or when u have unstable net and all that. but i agree with u i had the same feeling with last epoch when i tried it after D4.
I agree 100 with you I feel the same way
it's been a while since launch, but i got around 10h on my druid in LE, and the game genuinely bores me to death. :(
the combat feels so clunky... looks like a mashup between poe1 and d3. and the info required to perfect the gameplay from the player perspective is much bigger than d4, which is not intuitive, makes it more uncompelling.
I played like an hour on Druid after leveling to 60 so far on a rogue and I just couldn’t, early Druid felt terrible. Blade master rogue has been exactly how I want and imagine a melee focused rogue to play in a video game.
Most of my friends stopped playing after the story in D4. I think the uniques in D4 made it quite interesring in the end
I'm not worried about the games I play after work, I'm worried about the games I play AT work...
Feels pretty accurate as a long time PoE player and now having played D4 and LE. Looking forward to see what LE endgame will give us as the cycles are released.
Have you played Grim Dawn though ?
Thanks for the insight.
Ps. Thanks Asmon for introducing me to this channel.
Introduceing, heck I suspect he made the channel.
The invisible line going down is Wolcen. 🙃
Where would Grim Down be? 🙃
@@jayzdawg3111 it was a game that (at launch at least) started to plateau halfway through the campaign, rather than after. (and had a lot of bugs and balance issues.)
Grim dawn for me is between LE and D4, and plateaus around the intersection of LE and D4. Context though is that I only played crucible and aom
Wolcen probably the worst that I ever try, game play is ok-ish but the server selection and latency is pure nightmare.
@@jayzdawg3111If you like challenging multi-phase boss fights, then Wolcen is your game. But that is part of the issue- the rest of the game is easy peasy. It was janky af to play at launch but did have nice graphics and sound design.
Pretty good analysis. That's my feeling as well.
A friend bought me Last Epoch. I dont really have time for another game, but it seems like one worthy of spending some time in
Its not sadly one ofthe worst arpgs on steam at the moment.
For some reason this guy (@Dead_Goat) goes on all LE videos and trash talks the game.
it really is, one of the best arpgs on the market at the moment.
Awesome friend. Btw great game, even on beta. Very excited for the official release!
I got it not long ago, made it to monoliths and got a small taste of end game. LE is as solid of a game as you can ask for.
POE 2 has potential to combine the graph from LE AND Poe.
Let’s hope not. I love the hardcore aspect of PoE.
Then they would need to make character building a lot more accessible for the average person. Its the main reason i dont play that game.
Your D4 fun graph is pretty spot on for me. I play each season and complete the journey, but it's around 80-85 that I realize I'm only then just checking the journey boxes off, but not caring about the content anymore. Still like the game and all, but it needs the itemization overhaul and something else in endgame. The get this key to do this boss for this key is not my favorite loop.
How long did it take you to get to that point though?
hopefully leaderboards fix this issue. its the one thing for that its lacking. because once i get to around 90 im like welp not really anything left to go for. If there were leaderboards i would be like im gonna try to push much further to see if i can get a high rank. which in turn would be more gameplay out of a character
@@brandonjauregui9475 1-2 days id assume? thats usually when I get bored of sleepablo 4
@@simony9611 1-2 days I get bored of PoE and and Last Epoch because the lackness of control smoothness and graphics, which oddly enough D4 excels in buttons smash and graphics/audio quality.
@@alex4ucj poor man 1-2 days in poe you are not even over tutorial LOL , if poe got a score 90 ,D4 hardly over 10 how pathetic this game is
I was going to ask where Grim Dawn fits in, but I realized its already on the graph; the Fun index line, that is full vertical, thats the Grim Dawn line. Fun all the way through!
Absolutely agree 👍
This is the best, most concise summary of these 3 games that could possibly exist. In this short of form. I've played all 3 games, and I can only hope new comers to all 3 games see this summary. It is beyond accurate. TY for the content sir!
PoE is 11 years old, LE is 5 years old and D4 is 9 months old. Give D4 4 more years and then compare again. Does anyone remember PoE at 1 years old or LE at 1 years old?
As a slight counter point I think there are different type of arpg players. I think for hyper minmaxers I completely agree with your assessment, but I think I'd actually swap the last epoch and POE graphs for someone like myself who are (serial rerollers/love to try out new builds). While you definitely can reroll a character in POE I find a couple issues:
1) You need to be on trade - cause if you're doing it in SSF you're mostly swapping across your gear and only changing a couple things outside of grinding for the equivalence of a week irl
2) Trading takes quite a bit of time and its a bit of annoyance to have to spend 20-30 minutes outside the game looking up items, planning a pob, etc
3) Most builds are not your own creation and are merely copying an existing POB and maybe with some game knowledge tweaking a few items, clusters, or skill points (This is actually a big plus though in SSF where you have to be creative since items are limited)
For someone like myself, who just wants to sit down at the end of the day blast some maps and quickly configure my own builds I find the enjoyment for last epoch keeps going for quite a while.
In the same time it takes me to clear content, farm up currency and clear uber bosses I can have online and fully running 4-5 of my own custom builds in Last Epoch. I"m not saying this is better or worse overall, just for me I find that sooo much more interesting and exciting upon reflection than that mid point of POE where i'm basically just logging on to grind currency to then trade away or gamble on crafts in (SSF).
Lastly, I think POE in particular for some people can have a very sharp drop because theres not full deterministic crafting. I've kinda just become deflated at the end of leagues sometimes when you attempt to craft some awesome item and the rng gods just aren't on your side. You then have to look forward to a few more hours of time to grind currency just to attempt said craft again with no assurances it'll work.
I hate using build guides and I am so glad there's so much build diversity being advertised in LE and I love that they are juicing drops for SSF players. Modern ARPGs need to respect our time a bit better especially as the demographic for them is basically ages 25-45. POE and D4 both expect a ton of grinding if you are min/maxing, which is fine to an extent but I am hopeful LE strikes a good balance and am looking forward to hopping in for the first time.
Ain't no way you're coming up with a Poe build in 20-30 minutes lmao. That junk can literally take days and then you can do one wrong thing and completely brick your build.
@@rockygillman6404 That's precisely waht I was getting at. You can try and do a poe build in 30 minutes, but its gonna often be garbage unless you really know your shit.
Even for someone like me (have 4k+ hours) to reroll a build and come up with my own build would take me like 3+ hours. But often, I'm using poe ninja finding a bunch of different peopels builds then messing around w/ them in path of building to figure out my upgrade path.
What I really like about POE is the challenges to get your ascendency points.
What I like about PoE is there are so many challenges throughout the whole game. It just never ends.
My take on the graph is:
D4: Pretty much agree super enjoyable campaign games feeling great and then I think every time I hit level 80 I completely lose interest because there's nothing I'm going after. I haven't played since they added the extra ubers and stuff so I dunno if it feels any better but I'm the kind of person who needs a goal and I kind of stop having any reason to progress pretty fast in D4.
PoE: The starting experience is awful, but I'd say the enjoyability ramp happens when you hit the point where you can actually play your build. For example in the current league I found a way to league start as a coc ice nova build right at level 38 and so I was having a great time really early. What I hate is when I feel like I need to play some unfun leveling / league start build that isn't the build I want to play all the way into maps before I can swap to what I want to play. The enjoyability of poe drops off a cliff as soon as I reach my goal, so generally I play until I do all the new pinnacle content and then my motivation is gone and I stop playing for the league.
LE: Again agree with you in that its less enjoyable starting out than d4 but more than poe, campaign isn't great but the gameplay feels good and you can usually transition into your build pretty early. Where I differ is imo the enjoyability drops off a cliff at end game. I think I've only ever made it to like 90 on a character with the few I played because there's nothing to progress towards. The monolith system lacks a lot for me, there's no pinnacle boss content or anything that's that looming end game goal I'm grinding power for, its just... make the greater rift / nightmare dungeon / corruption level higher for the sake of it.
The maps in the monolith system are too fast with the objectives to be enjoyable for me as well, I feel like I spend more time in load screens than playing.The arena and side dungeons were... fine... but again not enjoyable enough for me to want to keep grinding away in them at the moment. This game feels a lot like D4 for now where it has a lot of potential but it needs time for them to build it out.
Aaand that's where I'm at. Excited to see what they did for LE 1.0 since people are saying it looks a lot better. Imagine I'm going to get a few days out of it hit end game and run into the same problems then put it down until the next update. Which is fine, I'm not one of those people who needs to get married to a single game and have it take all my time forever.
Your issue with PoE is that you're playing trade league. You don't need any "league start" builds in SSF and it takes way longer to reach any goal. And the game isn't all about farming for currency to buy random shit from other players.
@@Котик_Подвальный My problem there is I'm very limited on the kinds of builds I enjoy in poe with how shallow the combat is and how bad most of the skills feel (I hate stutter stepping) and ssf makes finding certain build enabling uniques extremely unlikely. Which loops right back into my enjoying playing the build I'm going for as early as possible.
I try to play ssf-ish in trade and craft what I can etc etc but I CBA grinding away on a build I don't enjoy to get the thing I need to make the build I want to play function.
I did not find d4 enjoyable at all. Campaign is typical blizzard trash story telling
@@laoch5658 I don't get why people say d4 campaign is better than LE campaign the story in LE is way better imo. Blizz hasn't been the same story tellers since 2010 or 12. People living in the 2000s blizz world in 2024
@@CubeInspector LE does not have amazing Cutscenes and Voice acting that D4 does. Most people arent willing to read the story so if they dont put most of the story in cutscenes most people will not engage with the story. I for one have no clue what the story in the LE campaign is but I watched and enjoyed the D4 campaign.
This is a great way of summarizing the differences. It's also a good illustration of why different people love different games. (I also suspect it's why many game reviewers defend D4--most of them don't have tons of time to sink into any one game, so they just walk away with the best possible impression of D4).
tldr: D4 bad
🗿True brother 🗿
Not for me. I'm a casual that barely gets to torment every season.
Can confirm as a d4 refugee. Bad bad
D4 very bad
Sorry but not for me, I don't like cartoon/mobile graphics of Poe and LE and I'm a casual gamer , I prefer Diablo lore, graphics etc
Like you said at 8:00 minutes, I am the one deciding where to invest my limited playtime after a day of work. Based on your graph and assessment, D4 makes the most sense and why I like it the most out of the 3 options. Different lifestyles = different favored game. That’s it.
If true, I feel like you'd be just as well off playing earlier Diablo games if you haven't already. Way less expensive, and more fun in my opinion.
As someone else who doesn’t really have the time to grind like I used to, I still found D4 to be a bit dull and hollow after a month of playing it. If you started playing it an hour every day after work today you’ll likely find yourself plateauing by the end of March.
After playing both, I gotta say Last Epoch is a much better game for half the price that still fits your lifestyle as the systems don’t get too complicated. I’m only a few weeks in and I can already tell there’s more longevity to the experience than D4.
@@Guthbox I guess I just have an affinity to Diablo franchise since I played D2 for like 10 years then another 2 years of D2R, skipped D3 and so D4 is like homecoming
@@AlexWinn-j3w Yeah I’m another huge D2 fan. Last Epoch is the spiritual successor to D2 that I’ve been searching for years now
850 hours, can't wait for 1.0. I played PoE for 2khours+, big D2 fan. Last Epoch is the future, maybe PoE2 will be even better, we'll see.
Personally, due to the ease of starting a new character and the sheer number of builds that are unique,fun, viable, easy to try on your own of Last Epoch, It made me spend a lot of time into it. Imo, PoE is too much work to keep interested in. After a season, I'm burnt out for a year, but eventually the mechancis are too hard to keep up with, alongside new items, skills etc. Never really got into crafting either. Doesn't mean that it's worse, but I don't wanna have to scour the internet for guides, etc.
The future with gender locked class? Nope, this time next year no one will even talk about Le.
@Banjall they already said they're looking into that. It just isn't a priority because unlike d4 they understand having gameplay loops are more important than having the ability to have a pen15
I'm sure if you could go back and have diablo 4 release with more stash tabs, in exchange for character customization, you'd make that choice.
Honestly what matters in an arpg is how the loot looks. You basically never see your char 😅
@@BanjallPoE is gender locked. That's some stupid reasoning.
@@jetman8856 as was every Diablo before the latest one. Grim Dawn/Titan Quest allow sex selection, but they don't really have classes, either, just skill sets.
@@jetman8856 I don't play PoE eather, not a big fan of Tencent.
really like how simple and relatable you do your videos
great video and visualization of the 3 games. I'm a last epoch guy, but generally like all three games.
I have not played Last Epoch, but I have played Diablo 4 and POE. I fell right into the "POE became overwhelming quickly and I quit" crowd. I have just about 100 hours in Diablo and I have enjoyed every single one, while I only played POE for maybe 30 hours. Yes I am a casual ARPG enjoyer, and I have found that exactly what DM keeps saying is very accurate, Diablo is meant for the casuals and I have quite enjoyed it that way.
The fact that you were able to make the fun last to level 70 in D4 is fucking impressive.
i gave up at 50
The fact he was able to enjoy last epoch past lvl 20 is impressive.
Gave up at 12
@@Dead_Goat It's okay to be wrong, we forgive you.
Brother, I gave up at level 24 lmao
I just realized I’m a nerd. I’m fully invested in watching this dude draw a graph comparing games. Fun stuff
Wonder how POE2 would look, I imagine the beginning of the game would be a lot easier and more fun than POE1
It does not look like PoE2 will be easier at the start😂
From what the devs have said it looks like it will be easier to understand for new players. But the design of the game and bosses looks very souls like (and with the difficulty that that entails)
@@lavq7000 While it may resemble those souls like games in terms of prounounced and telegraphed attacks that are dodgeable (with a new dodge roll mechanic no less), I'm guessing the tuning at exilecon has a lot of people thinking it POE2 will be harder than it actually will be. Challenging, maybe on your first few playthroughs, but gamers will figure it out quick as they often do, and I don't think POE is aiming to scare people away from the game by stopping their progress with a boss they can't finish. Sure there will be "git gud" memes early on in the game's lifespan, but I think that will pass, especially since we'll have picked up far better gear than people had at exilecon by the time we face the bosses they did AND it's also likely our builds will be better than the cookie cutter testing builds they threw into that demo. If NOTHING else, GGG will have learned from the negative reaction by some players thinking the game was too slow or difficult for their liking, and have plenty of time to address that between last year's exilecon, a full REAL beta, and launch.
I've tried it after seeing some friends played it and jumped in, it's exactly what I've been wanting in an ARPG since diablo 2. I used to love d2, back in the day, which is why I was sad I don't like POE. POE commits a few cardinal sins, the main one being: don't get in the players way of running around and clicking monsters. What? Skill gems? Then you fiddle around but then you realise that you can't possibly plan out a proper build, and then there's an ascendency. So what happens? You end up doing the OPPOSITE of what the skill tree was designed for, you follow pre-made, cookie cutter builds just like you did in diablo 2, except now it's 10x less fun and more punishing.
Either give players the ability to experiment if you're going to literally design the game that way, or just don't bother.
Last Epoch feels like, to me, the FIRST worthy successor of D2 that lives up to its quality. I'm surprised it took so long for it to happen (20 years?). The leveling is actually fun, and less intrusive, and you actually have the ability to experiment freely with your builds, while having to lock into your mastery/ascendancy. I feel like this is a completely fair trade off as you only have to make each character once, within that spec.
The points about committing to multiple characters over time in PoE & enjoyability are spot on. I'd also add that you probably have to follow build guides in order to get over the humps, so you can tell the difference between a weak setup, vs. something that is viable into the deeper layers of endgame. Enjoyability tanks if you can't push into red maps and bossing without dying all the time.
Other than figuring out how certain things work, or work together, I disagree.
I started enjoying PoE when I stopped looking at builds made by others.
Multiple characters in PoE is a Bless and a Curse at same time. Killing the same tutorial bosses statistically once in a month for almost a ten years can be devastating.
@@Th1sUsernameIsNotTaken Fair. Just personally I don't think I'd be able to craft a viable build on my own without first running through some good ones so I could learn how different mechanics interact in powerful ways.
@@blamelessphysician Makes sense, and there's nothing wrong with that.
I just found myself not caring for "meta" or "right" builds even if it's what I wanted to play, because essentially someone else did it for me.
Plus it makes discovering things FAR more rewarding (for me).
I'll still look up certain recipes (can't be asked to remember all that), or how certain things interact with one another (or lack thereof), as I don't want to try combining something just to realize it doesn't work.
Definitely can't wait for PoE2 where most will basically be at that starting line together, trying to figure out all of its mysteries :p
You're forgetting to mention the PhD titles and libraries you need to scour to be able to play PoE. Doing it without a guide as a new/relatively new player can easily result in a dead character that can't even complete the campaign, let alone even participate in the endgame.
That's the part that's truly unenjoyable and has kept PoE from being truly good for years now. Hopefully last epoch will provide what I'm looking for.
I did fine without scouring information or even using guides in PoE. Struggling with a build, means you learned a lot from your experiments. Acquiring knowledge over time is not a bad thing or less fun. The possibilities are endless, although not equally effective, doesn't mean less fun. That said, if you can't finish the campaign no matter how hard you tried to screw up, it is probably not a game for you.
When you make that kind of graph it would be usefull to give a genenal amount of time played so we undestand how much we have to invest before we reach your level of enjoyment
I would say 30-40 hours is where Diablo and PoE intercept.
D4/LE crossover = 40-60h
PoE/LE crossover = 100h+
@@RamzaBehoulveThis is pretty accurate. But I'd add that LE is never far behind D4. And if you liked D3... you might just like LE more right out the gate.
@@jimdshea I don't want to insult anyone so i take myself as joe average playing Path of Exile since beta i can honestly say that i still can't craft without using websites as path of crafting. It's complex and i miss a better system to sell your stuff as well all must be done between players using a selling tab you have to purchase with money. It's an annoying system give me an auction house i shouted for 13 years. But the rest when you master it is so much fun and engame is fast and like 99% of the game. Going to try Last Epoch heard they have a better trading system a bit less complex (for now) which i welcome. The question will be how much endgame is there and is it fun? But you got to give it time to see how it develops.
@@randar1969 Auction house will be a nightmare, because flippers could easily corner the market very quickly, leaving players with only overinflated prices.
To make a note here: Last Epoch has been the one of all of these where I keep wanting to make a new character to try out new things more than anything else. That used to be PoE for me, but now it's LE. I still love PoE, but I haven't the patience or temperament for it these days.
Campaign is the best thing in D4. Yet you only play it once ever, then never again. Unless you want to be inefficient. I'd like if you had to do the campaign every season at least.
You still have the option to…you’re not forced not to
I got through it twice.. couldn't finish T4 was falling asleep. Think I got to LVL 73? The end game is so dull.. but I agree I had fun and got my moneys worth with the campaign.
The biggest problem with Diablo 4 is a grind. Glyphs still takes too much time even after buff. Starting next characters is painfull time consumer on loop in dungeons which burns out people quickly.
There is room for all 3. I’m just happy isometric rpgs are making a comeback and having a renaissance 😊
This... I play them ALL. Including Grim Dawn, Van Helsing, Titan Quest, Undecember, Wolcen, Torchlight, Victor Vran etc etc.
@@MaximumCartergrim dawn 😎😎 hell yeah
as a veteran of path of exile i want to say that the enjoyment spike every new season and keep climbing during the league
until you reach some goals. i loved this league and was so excited when I dropped a mirror, but found the urge to play went away once i had more currency than i knew what to do with
well tbf, it depends on the league.. like kalandra imo drops down the graph.
Great breakdown with some comparisons!
Totally agree with this graph! I’d be curious if you added/accounted for replay ability such as how fun can change because someone wants to make multiple characters in a league.
Just hit 68 in LE and was blasting the monolith. Cant wait to start a warlock and get my hands warmed up to that, runner up will be a falconer. Overall this game has captured me and my imagination / time lot better than POE and for sure Diablo 4 (at the wt4 mark). Can't wait to see 1.0 patch and the changes coming to LE.
This game has better class fantasy than PoE, which definitely helps. Plus building a character is more intuitive, so you can really capture what kind of character you want. Add in the ability to target farm unique to support niche builds and you have a nice character progression curve.
I am stoked for the controller support in 1.0 can't wait
This is a great explanation & help. Trying to see if Last Epoch is worth it as a Diablo & Poe player…
Explosive ballista tomorrow 🤣
I hope it works. Ballista was so awful in 0.92
Tomorrow won't be playable at all, calling it rn
Furry + Multishot + gain Ward/Haste on hit with Marksman, super smooth!
I felt the psychic force of all my boys screaming "LETS FUCKING GO!!!" at once last night...
There has been legitimate weeping from the hopeium made manifest on this great day.
We're back boys.
Gigantic returns in April
See you there.
Some thoughts from a casual dad gamer who has about 2-3 hours to game every other night so ~12 hours per week:
For Diablo 4 I've made it about 3/4 of the way through the campaign on one character and am Lvl 43 on my seasonal character. I'm only WT2 and I'm not sure if I'm going to keep grinding to WT3. The grind just isn't that fun as all of my legendary gear is getting outclassed by blue gear. I've tried my hand at crafting and adding stuff but it's just not doing it for me. Also the skill tree is super boring (I've tried all of the classes to lvl 20 so far) and the battle pass only being leveled by doing specific activities and not just getting XP is kind of lame.
For Path of Exile I tried it and have two characters and they're only lvl 15 or so. The skill tree was cool but I was overwhelmed by all of the different currencies and felt like I would have to spend way more time than I have available to me to research and read wikis / watch tutorial videos. I've decided to try POE2 when that comes out with the hope that I'll be able to learn with everyone else when it drops.
For Last Epoch, I'm super excited to try it out as everyone says it's a good middle ground between the two. Fingers crossed for a good 1.0 launch tomorrow!
It will be a mess:)) go to work. Sleep. They have awfull servers
100%
Hi. You will be juust a little bit overwhelmed with Last Epoch also because you need to have a build in mind in order for it to work ( and you can choose from 4 passive trees simoultanousely). But the good news is it's fun and you can respec easily. (not the mastery though)
@@Anomalyn1as long as he’s not an ARPG novice, he won’t find LE confusing at all.
@@Anomalyn1 I'm not 100% on the skills offered, but right now I have my eye on starting as a Sentinel and going the Paladin mastery route with skills centered on either fire damage / holy power and defense.
This a amazing - great guide and spot on IMO. DM thank you for all the content. It is REALLY amazing to me to see that Yellow Line for a game that is releasing tomorrow. Really makes me sad about D4 even more.
I got my friend to start playing POE during this season (Affliction). She has had an absolute blast and played so much that we both decided to take a break after about 1.5 months and maybe 300 hours at least in play time.
She has told me that when she first started she wanted to "do it herself", and I told her: don't. So after going like 30 levels into her first character she respeced into a character from a build guide and started having tons of fun. She eventually made I think 3 total characters this season.
So, the one thing I'll point out is that POE is hard and a new player can absolutely have a ton of fun, but because the game is so complex, I think every new player would benefit a lot from having a build guide and having some hand holding.
I think DM himself started having a lot more fun when he started seeking help from the PoE community like Ghazzy. Because his knowledge went up and thus the enjoyment of the game.
My 2 cents.
Build guides ruin the point of the fucking game, kid: BUILDCRAFTING.
@@KSxPharaoh maybe that's the point of the game for you friend. But I'm just saying that for new players, going with a guide is extremely beneficial.
My two cents are in complete contrast to yours I'm afraid. I made an account and tried the game in 2018 and did exactly what you said. Tried following a build guide. I ended up leaving the game when my character was lvl 9. I found the process boring.
Then, in the lat month of Expedition league I tried the game again, this time on Steam since I couldn't be bothered to recover my old account. And this time I just plaid the game, no build guides. And I had fun. I made it to rank 5 white maps before I started getting kicked really hard. Then the league ended and I tried a new character in the next league, made it to red maps if memory serves. Then I decided to try something else next league.
Just one character a league and slow but fun progress. Build guide take all the fun out of the game for me. I had a look on what people said about Expedition league on the forum, and a lot of build guide following people were complaining new players were going to get stuck on Brutus and quit because of some of the nerfs Expedition brought. I got stock on Brutus. I then went back to town and had a look at the gems Nessa was selling. I knew she was selling gems, and the game had taught me how to use them. I bought SRS and Holly flame totem since they'd allow my Templar to attack from a distance , leveled them up a bit and beat Brutus - been a minion/totem user since; even when I tried an archer ended up using balistas. I played the game. I got stuck but knew how to find a solution. The build I'm using now is a meme guardian build. It's a version of the build I played last league with just a few changes that increase survivability. It's a result of multiple tries to improve at the game. Is it the best build ever? No. Can it do tier 16 8 mod maps? Yes. Am I still having fun with the game? also yes. Will I ever just go blindly follow a guide? never. I'd rather go to Poe Ninja, look at the top build for my ascendancy and ask myself why they use the gear they do and why they use the gems they use and go from there. And it's not looking and copying those builds but finding out why the make the choices they do that's what moves my build forward. I play poe to PLAY the game, not to have someone else play it for me. And making my own build is part of the fun of the game. It's the reason why I don't craft all that much in PoE. Crafting isn't fun, it's a random chance lottery and I don't play the lottery. And I know, I know, you can significantly decrees the chances of outcomes you don't want but that's like saying you can significantly increase the chance of winning the lottery by buying tens of thousands of tickets when the pot is large enough.
If you and your friend think copying someone else's build is fun, more power to you, but for me, the literally worst advice I ever received in this game was "pick a witch and fallow a guide and you'll have fun". Mainly because the advice boils down to: don't pick a class that speaks to you or at random but this class I picked for you because I think it's good for new players, and don't play the game and learn it's mechanics but follow this guide someone else made so you can avoid having to learn how the game works and reduce the core gameplay loop to only killing enemies. But that's just my two cents.
@@AlucardNoir I appreciate your input. I do think that many players will eventually go to a wiki or a guide or watch RUclips to get a better grasp of the game mechanics. PoE is just too complex not to. I actually did a "blind" run right before Affliction because I hadn't played in about 2 or 3 years, and I was able to get to about level 85 with the knowledge I had from playing before and other arpgs. So absolutely it is possible and fun to get to red maps and beyond on your own. I just find build guides explain why certain mechanics work together and why others do not, and honestly at the end of the day: I don't really craft, I don't really strategize builds, I just run maps. Because I like to just mindlessly kill hordes of mobs. For strategy I play sims and strategy games.
Great video! Can't wait to see where you add POE2 in this chart when it's released.
D4 is doing a great job in the look and feel of the game, the campaign looks good and is fun to play, the combat feels really good in Diablo 4. POE's campaign is a bit boring and the game doesn't feels as soomth as D4, the combat doesnt feel impactfull untill your build start coming online, Diablo has that problem too but only on some druid/barb builds. Necro, sorc and rogue combat is instant fun in D4 imo.
For Last Epoch I only played 30 hours in the beta so i cant really compare yet, what I can say is that he campaign and the combat is not a good as in D4, but from the start better then how POE feels.
So overall I think for now that D4 has the best feeling combat and look and feel overal but worse end-game. POE has the most features and slowest start/campaign on the 3 but when you understand the game you can go crazy for unlimited time. LE I really hope that the look and feel of the game/combat comes close to D4 after the 1.0 update. Because I really think they made something grade, but i need to be honest that durning the beta i wasnt feeling the combat and look of the game as much as i was hoping for, the 1.0 trailer looks good, hopefully it feels as good tomorrow!
This, I found Last Epoch worst of the 3,it's not bad, but feels dated and combat is nowhere near D4, it's new so people are excited for it, I feel it will wane after a month
@@MavethTheReaper Have you played since the 1.0 release? The game feels much better now, still not on D4 levels but its a lot closer.
@@roostre5254 I'm sure, people talking like it surpassed D4
@@kevinfinnerty8414 I do care about graphics, actually why Last Epoch never did it for me, feels dated, and I assure you I have a life
there's so many games. I still can't decide between path of exile, diablo 4, or last epoch. And playing all 3 feels like a waste of my time, or i dont have enough time to play all 3.
I played diablo 4 quit it after 70 couldnt get into poe but loving epoch so far
As an arpg fan that has extensively played all three, it was far easier to get into last epoch initially, but I'd definitely recommend at minimum, trying to get to maps in PoE and learning/understanding the map atlas and what the end-game progression system looks like. You will thank yourself for putting in the time.
In my personal graph, PoE would be at about a 0 until you get to maps. Then it becomes one of my top games of all time lol. There's a good chance each season that I quit before I get to endgame because of how much I hate going through the campaign and just can't be bothered. If I power through though, I become completely addicted for weeks and it's all I want to play.
Accurate assessment. The fun factor in Last Epoch is huge. D4 was disappointing. And POE I had to do too much build research
There is absolutely nothing fun in last epoch. Game is pure trash.
Am I the only one who had more fun with Last Epoch right from the start (compared to Diablo)? No outdated character creation, no crappy generic system, no repetitive dungeons or pointless world quests. You feel a different atmosphere on every map. You reach level 2 and are confronted with a talent tree that gives you actual choices. When you reach level 4, you can choose a talent tree for a skill you like and start experimenting. Don't like a skill? Fine, just respect it and the fun starts all over again. Last Epoch is so much fun because you are constantly respecing, trying to fix things, building your character as you imagine it. Diablo 4 has none of that. I realised after one day that I was playing a generic pile of cash grabbing BS. Why does everyone keep saying that Diablo 4 is fun at the start and nice for casuals and so on when it is clearly not the case? The game would be nothing without the name. I am casual and every hour (which is a limited resource for me) I put into Diablo 4 felt wasted. Diablo 4 is just worse than PoE and LE right from the beginning. The point with PoE is that the graphics and mechanics are outdated a bit, what increases the boundry of entry for new players.
That’s a long time Poe is trash referring to the graph
I didn't get that impression at all... just cause other games ramp faster doesn't make poe "trash"
Not really. The chart only says "Game Time", not an actually hour amount. But also remember the chart is subjective for just DM and how the games felt to him specifically. Personally I was hooked on PoE after my first hour in the game, where as Diablo was boring to me from the very start.
It's just harder on new players... new players seems to be his focus here saying stuff like the d4 campaign is fine... even tho we all skip it lol
@NewSnakeEyes1 I agree... d4 was trash from the first moment but poe is a motivated grind
Disagree brotherr d4 never funnier than poe or LE
As a D1-D4, PoE and LE player, I agree with your sentiments.
That D4 graph is only valid for the very first time you play the game and even then this is generous, D4 should drop down to 0 quickly
pretty ludicrous imo to say that PoE takes that long to overtake D4
Depends on the person. I felt like POE was trash from the start, and it took a long time to be engaging... Whereas Diablo felt more fun throughout the campaign and only fell off in end game. Last Epoch is a wonderful mesh of the two.
The real problem is understanding the base game mechanics. Understanding passives, gems, ascensions, and all the different crafting systems.
So for NEW players its a slow start.
I haven't gone through the entire campaign of Last Epoch, but it's definitely better than Diablo 4's. I found Diablo 4's campaign predictable and boring.
the open world of D4 bores me to death from the start on
Same. I loved the progression in d1 and d2.
d4 still shit, you cant hate path of exile, the game is literally free, and Last Epoch cost money but has many innovative feature that is good for the aRPG genre
I tried POE 4 times now. I just can't be bothered to learn this clusterfuck of a skill tree, and following builds is unfun to the extreme.
I'm sure 200 hours in it gets good. But no, thank you, not for me. 😅
Really hoping LE is good.
I think you are rightwith thisgraph, but the difference is - d4 and LE players will quit after their game have reached the apex. And for POE a lot of people quit before it even becomes enjoyable.
Personally, the best ARPG that takes dozens if not hundreds of hours to become enjoyable - is the worst ARPG. 😮
I'm waiting for a friend to return from vacation. I'm not in a hurry😮
LE is really fun from start to endgame.
This is why you're one of my favorite content creator's. Loved this, as someone who has dabbled in all these games and Grim Dawn and coming from the times of Champions of Norrath this is a pretty fair take. Good shit.
Need to increase the decay dropoff rate of D4 imo... game falls off a cliff
honestly the d4 graph should collapse shortly after the lvl 70-80ish area when you realise the end game is kinda eh
This is how comparing game should be, you'll get enough information without any spoiler, clear and simple.
I completely disagree with the D4 “enjoyable right from the get go, which made it sell so well in the beginning.” The ONLY thing that saved D4, as soon as it was announced, was the brand of IP, that’s it.
The campaign was okay at best. To think that D4 was ‘saved’ by, only the early game, is exceptionally coping.
True, d4 is slightly more enjoyable at first glance then you get your first character going and you hear some rumbling from the engine, lights start to blink on the dashboard, and by the time you hit lvl 70....the tires have come off and are rolling in 4 different directions as you break down on a deserted highway.
That's what happens when majority of the funds went to marketing rather than actual development 😆
Faction and prophecy system will extend the upward arrow for fun a bit more in last epoch...
D4 bad
I hate when people make up graphs. It defeats the purpose of a graph.
D4 stayed at 0 for me. What a garbage game.
I believe this is a fair take no problems over here been playing Last Epoch for a year glad to see all the positive vibes and HYPE
I think we can all agree that Diablo 4 didn't even qualify for the race...
Made it to 98 in PoE with a Mageblood MF build this league. Leveled 3 toons to 100 in D4 this season with every Uber that dropped being used. I picked up Last Epoch again 2 days ago and leveled 2 toons into 90 Monos and wanted more until they shut down for launch today. I totally enjoy the LE experience and the whole timeline motif. Unlike D4 and especially PoE, build choice mistakes are easy to adjust and gear for. Thank you for your honest review. You're becoming one of the best reviewers out there.
Excellent paint work - rax would be proud!
I agree with most of it. D4 around level 30-35 plateaus a bit. You're still not getting legendary very often and only passives left to take on the skill tree. So your character will start to feel weak. This gets much better once you get into nightmare tier and start getting all your legendary aspects. At 70 the game dives straight to 0. I don't enjoy farming mats to do bosses and nightmare dungeons are the worst part of the game and you need to grind out 5-6 glyphs to 21. I usually just stop there and make something else or wait for the next season.
Best No Non-Sense break down of the 3 games I have seen. Good job bro.
For me, last epoch is the 500kg bomb inside blizzard HQ, they've managed to make the skills "complexity" easier than diablo while making the interaction (such as support gems) in a much simplier way than PoE.
But PoE keeps that special place for the freedom they allow in builds, were they allow any class to equip any item and any spells with any support gem
Also blizzard sucks for delaying their uptade only in a attempt to crash last epoch release
The runemaster class itself outdoes a majotiry of class synergies in D4. D4 is so vanilla and plain. It hurts that D2 was much more versatile than D4.
Great video, really easy to take in and well explained :) one thing to remember is that you can get Heirloom Items from your first character to give to any alts so you can get back up to speed a lot quicker if you wanted to try a whole new class.
I was super hyped about LE. Actually, as a dad and having 8-5 job I tried to play today. You should comment on a launch, which was pretty bad, but probably everyone expected it. Hope I can play in the next few days without issues.
I like what you are doing. My one disagreement is that you simplify how many times you hit a wall in POE. There are many points where you hit a benchmark only to realize how many more there are, how much more there is to understand or farm.
That's actually the fun part imo. Discovering you can still do something other than what you're already doing.
For you. For many of us, its daunting and fun-draining@@CCSplinters
I love how real you are, the fact you are aware enough of the different levels of gamers. From a couple hours a day to 100s a week and you mention both
I honestly feel like, the graph needs to be re-looked at after last epoch full 1.0 release, as your technically comparing a beta game with 2 full release games.
Perfectly explained. If i can add more to it.
As a casual player. I repeat as a casual player who has work and family etc.
Diablo 4 has been the best for me since release, still fun for me and i dont feel im left behind on anything.
I tried poe but its just not for me as i have no time for it + it wasn't fun, im played games to have fun, if the get go is not fun then its not for me. Thats why poe is good for those who likes to read books spreadsheet all these details and have their fun later in game but for me its impossible.
Hardcore player can achieve hes fun faster then i can because i wont have the same amount of time to play if we compared might take me years to reach the point of fun on poe that's why i dont like it.
I respect the game and the players but sadly i feel i get harassed online from many poe players pointing fingers at me for playing diablo or just reading or hearing people complaint alot about diablo. As poe wilson said the game is not beginner friendly and is not for everyone. D4 is the same for the hardcore gamers. But i dont see d4 players complaining same way or bash on poe players like poe players does. The polite and respect is out of hand.
Thank you for your great videos i love them.
I think it's pretty accurate from a first time play perspective. If you started at a person's second league with all 3, poe would ramp more like LE, LE wouldn't change much, and D4 would ramp less and peak earlier/lower.
Imo - speaking as a highly invested poe player and casual LE player.
Last epoch is fun. I had like 2-2.5k hours in D3 played D4 for less than 50 and haven’t touched it since. Last epoch has kept my attention in playing and building new builds
this is such a great idea explaining how long it takes to enjoy a game and how long itll last. i finished the diablo 4 campaign enjoyed it alot but had no interest in the endgame content. i was worried last epoch would be the same. glad i found this channel!
Last Epoch is definitely worth the $35. QOL way superior to that $70 wannabe ARPG from Blizzard who are just cashing in on the hard work of ex-employees from 20 years before. The Diablo IP died with Diablo II, Diablo III had the real money auction house where Blizzard just wanted money from both sides of the fence. Diablo IV is pure shovelware aside from the great cinematics.
As someone who has been playing Diablo for almost 2 decades, and here and there with POE, Last Epoch was a bit of a refreshment, to be honest. Looking forward to the v1.0 D4 really bores me nowadays. LE is scratching the itch for now.
Perfectly articulated. I've played all 3. I quit D4 as soon as I finished the campaign, which I did really enjoy, and never plan to return. I've played probably 1000 or more hours of PoE over the last decade and it's the best but it's so demanding on your mental faculties, it feels like work sometimes when I just want to chill. Last Epoch strikes the balance, just like you mentioned, and I'm definitely planning on giving it a longer spin over the next few months.
This video is so scarily accurate. He put into words (graphed) exactly what my thoughts were on the three games.
I really love hearing from you. You explain and vocalize exactly how I feel. Truth man.