My Conflicting Feelings on Yuri!!! On Ice
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- Edit- In hindsight I don't know how much business I had making a video like this, I think stuff like this is better handled by people with more experience in same sex relationships than i have.
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Song list:
Yuri on Ice- Yuri!!! on Ice ost
Skyline- Va-11 Hall-A ost
Marduk Ending- Tekken 4 ost
"This is an engagement ring. We're getting married when he wins gold." I think this pretty much clears the whole ambiguity problem.
I mean, it was played off as a joke but i want that to be canon lol
Well Yuri never confirmed...
@@Blue-mj5gm he never denied either
That was literally a joke tho-
@@senza4591 Was it really that much played of? I would definitely say it's Canon. I know what the problem is but there is not much to talk around that it is Canon. I just hope they show a uncensored kiss in the movie or season two.
honestly as a gay person myself, i found it more amazing that even though they had hints of being in love, it wasn't focused on that; it was focused on honing his skills as a skater and taking his experience into his performances. whenever a gay couple is on a show, it ends up leaning towards yaoi and fetishizations; this show has glimpses of love between them, but i find it more natural that the viewer would also feel like how Yuri feels, he's unsure of Victor's feelings toward him until later on.
i liked the way it was written because it seemed genuine? not all loves start off a right way, sometimes you realize that you're opening up and becoming close to the person, and then you realize you don't want them to leave your side. i felt that in Yuri's last sequence, when he said "i don't want to go to the kiss and cry. if i do, it'll be over" as in, him and Victor parting ways.
it felt like a nice mesh of love into skating; he skated for Victor in Eros, telling the world that "he's mine", and that was enough for me to understand that Yuri likes him. Victor watching him and understanding those feelings in his skating led him to continue progressing in their relationship.
This. I totally agree.
It's not very common that you see a romance (between two men) that feels genuine and normal and real and doesn't get blown up to an extent. Yuri and Victor are two grown adults, it would feel forced if people would make a fuzz about one kiss, even if it's their first and big romantic words or gesture just don't fit them in my opinion. It would take away from the wholesomeness of this show.
The thing that I love about this show is, that everyone accepts Yuris and Victors relationship (or any relationship, really) without batting an eye, so if they had put the focus on the kiss and had the characters talk about it, the whole thing of their relationship being normal and genuine would be destroyed for me. It's just a kiss. Yes, they love each other. Now let's focus on Yuri and his self-consciousness again.
Also, I don't think the show is as ambiguous as this video states. At the end of episode 5 Yuri basically tells the whole world he loves Victor. They're pretty much a couple for more than half of the show, it's just not specifically said and it doesn't has to be. There's a time-span of 8 month and they're living together for that time, so of course they get to know each other pretty well off-screen. I love, that in every new episode we see more and more how much they care about each other and how comfortable Yuri starts to feel with Victor. There are so many little scenes between these two, even before the kiss in episode 7, that show the growth of their relationship without words. Yuri waking Victor up in the middle of the night to make him listen to the program music, although he couldn't even really talk to him two episodes prior. Victor casually hugging Yuri from behind while they watch another skaters program, and that's only two of them.
The main focus of this anime is Yuri's journey and his fight against his self-consciousness and not his relationship with Victor, although it plays a big role in it.
couldn’t have said it any better!
lgbt+ female here. I agree so much with this comment.
@@SnorriSnibble YESS you worded it perfectly! i feel the same
Agree thatsalso why I love watching C drama bromance because they focus in the main plot and the chemistry between leads is amazing without becoming too focused on sec or explicit details
Clearly you weren't following. The main conflict is -who can love pork cutlet bowls harder to win the figure skating competition. Victor is just a metaphor for the pork cutlet bowl.
I smell conspiracy!
thats the smell of pork cutlets
I was equally bothered by the ambiguity, but I saw some theories that the blocking of the kiss and everything was to protect the show's ability to be watched in Russia, which has pretty staunchly anti-gay laws. If this is true, then I can respect the decision, tho I have no idea whatsoever how true it is.
Digibro
seems kinda weird that one of the main focal points would have to be held back in order to appease a country
Yeah, I get that, but god thats so depressing in its own way too...
I wouldn't call it ambiguity, but more along the lines of indirectness. Since episode 2, Yuuri has been expressing himself that generally aligns culturally in Japan (with some outliers) while Viktor either meets him halfway or outright gets to the point. Yaoi/BL can get away with more overtness because it's labeled as such (ex: Classmates). Yuri on Ice is not and does avoid tropes within those genres . I do think that it could have done something more, but the level of what it did is still rare among the mainstream.
There were a number of reasons for the ambiguity, that would probably be a reason among them. But as far as the kiss is concerned, Mitsuro Kubo confirmed that the DVDs and blurays would show the kiss instead of having it obscured in ordered for the scene to be aired
No gay stuff on mother Russia's soil, comrade!
What I liked of Yuri on Ice is that they actually have the balls to create a gay couple in a non yaoi anime, Sailor Moon did it before but I think people has more prejudice on gay males couples since shonen are more popular and YOI just broke that, maybe is a little step but I find it helpful. This is a way of say to the anime community that you can have a gay couple is a non yaoi manga/anime as much as a hetero one.
Year later but it has been confirmed that the YOI team had to fight tooth and nail just to even get the kiss scene in episode 7. I can't find the interview where it was said but they were determined to get what they wanted. And the rings in promo art have been taken out at times, even when staff clarify that they added the rings in their draft. So that would explain all the ambiguity. If they had to fight for a kiss on Japanese TV, having an actual relationship without hinting around it would be impossible. Now if it was marketed as a BL/Yaoi then it would've been on a network that would allow more but Yuri!!! on Ice is not yaoi, just a sports anime that happens to have a meaningful relationship to go alongside it.
It's a shame though that they have to remain ambiguous. Hopefully in the movie, Yamamoto won't have as much of a restriction on how she wants to take Viktor and Yuuri's relationship.
yoi is yaoi/BL. the very definition of bl is a gay romance as a central conflict.
@@6Kubik Its not a yaoi/bl. It just happens to have a gay ship as the main couple, and that aside Victor and Yuri's relationship is more of a side thing than anything, because if the anime was yaoi/bl, don't you think there would've been a lot more content about their relationship and not just a few scenes hinting to it?
@@mewotism the anime is about their relationship all the time. Just because they dont make out 24/7 does not mean its not BL. They are the main characters and their relationship is, beside the sport, the main focus - which is the definition for BL or romance. People just try to seperate it from BL because they want to make it into something special for their own ego. its a sports and BL anime.
@@6Kubikno. it's not yaoi or a bl. yaoi is a subcategory of bl, and that subcategory would not apply to yuri on ice. also the main focus/conflict is not yuri and viktor's romantic relationship. o - o
@@6Kubik the main focus is not their romantic relationship though.
"yuri on ice is not as gay as you think".
To quote Gigguk it's 10 piano scenes from evangelion 3.0 worth of gay, let's be honest here.
It's not as gay as you think. It's more gay than you think
more gay than you'd think, but less than you'd hope.
Fancy gay porn sans the porn.
its really gay
damn
I think the studio avoided confirming their relationship because they wanted it to go under the sports section instead of the yaoi section, know what I mean? People tend to judge yaoi and BL pretty quickly and brush it off as "another gay one", so I think this was their way of avoiding that, especially with the hidden kiss.
Miyumura i agree with you.
But i hope they won't leave their relationship total outside,in case they do a second season.
@@biancabors4716 "see you next level" is becoming "see you never" the longer we wait... ಥ‿ಥ
Valkyrie Robin i think it’s coming out winter 2021 or fall 2021
@@nvymee don't... Don't give me false hope dude ༎ຶ‿༎ຶ
Valkyrie Robin well hopefully it was supposed to come out this year or last year but it got delayed to make some changes but the creator did say she was working on the movie at home on her insta story i think 3 months ago
She directed the Persona 5 intro? JESUS
As a really not informed person about persona 5....i that good or bad? I'm assuming its good
Alena S. Just watch the opening for Persona 5. It's pretty impressive.
Alena S. It's really good!
I feel like the ambiguity is there for a good reason. Most gay relationships, in anime or pop culture in general, are portrayed as unhealthy, fetishized, and bordering abusive. The thing about YOI is that Viktor and Yuuri have considerably THE healthiest and most realistic relationship, gay or straight, I have ever seen. It isn't forced, Kubo even said so herself, they were never planned to fall in love, one day she just realized that they loved each other. And that is beautiful. Yuuri is very bad at expressing himself (I think we can all agree on that), so he expresses himself through his skating. Viktor and Yuuri both understand the language of skating and not being super direct with his emotions is probably easier for Yuuri in means of communication. So, in the airport, when Yuuri said he wanted Viktor to be his coach until he retires (mistranslation by the way, Yuuri actually said something closer to, "I want you to be mine until I retire." But that isn't important.) Viktor understands what Yuuri is saying , he doesn't take it literally because he knows what Yuuri actually means, he responds in a way that he knows Yuuri will understand and says he never wants Yuuri to retire. I feel like the skating is to show how connected they are, how they have a language of their own that no one else can understand. Honestly, their relationship is so obvious that I feel like it doesn't need to be admitted outright. The fact that it is never shown directly, but everyone just knows, makes their love for even more rare, since most animes rely on direct admitrance to show that two chatacters love eachother.
In conclusion, Viktor and Yuuri are madly in love and skating plays a beautiful role in it.
@erisu san No, its bullshit.
@@6Kubik no need to be so rude bro
i absolutely agree with everything in this comment. Also, i feel like the reason Victor even kissed Yuri in episode 7 was the quad flip, we all know that but y'know how you mentioned the language of skating? Well Yuri did dedicate his free skate performance to his entire skating carrier, with the time where the music gets more intense being the more brighter days of his carrier. The quad flip is Victors signature move, so maybe at the end he did the quad flip as in "is carrier ended with Victor" and then pointed his hand towards Victor at the ending position like always, TECHNICALLY confessing his feelings for Victor with the language of skating for his second time you can say (because the first time it was mostly just the ending position), but this time Victor understood, so he went ahead and kissed him knowing he felt the same way for Yuri, and maybe because of that he didn't mind getting married to Yuri and was so chill about it, plus even if the engagement was a joke i don't think he would be out here kissing the rings like he's gonna get married or some crap lmaoo-
I sobbed at the end of the series because I thought there was too much ambiguity and I didn't know how Yuri felt about him but this makes perfect sense to me. Thank you for the clarification!
@@xiehua412 IKR!! I cried when I watched the ending and I still do every time I rewatch it because now I understand that their feelings are actually mutual!! 🥺🥺
But where was the yuri
Dirtyjuice On the ice
Yuri is the main character's name
This made me laugh really hard. Thank you
In my ass.
was very disappointed
I get that some of you could get bored by watching pure skating, but for people like me that were (or are) professional skaters this is amazing. They really nailed the skating part, not only the spins and jumps are accurate, its choreography too, and I could felt all their emotions because once I felt it too.
I really love this anime.
I'm not a pro skater or anything but I always loved the skating in YOI.
The music, the movements and the emotions/thoughts behind the characters just had me invested in the moment and I cared abt what happened to them.
Yuri looks like Shinichi from Parasyte before he became badass.
Both series had the same person responsible for character design if I remember correctly, so that's probably why...
There are some shots of Yuri with his hair in a similar style to Shinichi after he became badass, too.
I fight for my friends. I know right! I left a comment about this on Glass Reflections video on yuri on ice. Yuri on Ice is a terrible prequel to Parasyte.
Same character designer.
Shinichi
Personally I've always preferred "ambiguous" love stories.
Why must it be so clear cut and confirmed? Love isn't like that in real life.
I *love* Cardcaptor Sakura, and because it's a longer story than Yuri On Ice, it had much longer time to show many different kinds of love/attraction/affection and how people decode their own feelings.
The part where Sakura realises she's not actually *in love* with Yukito, but loves him as a close friend (and magic was somewhat involved), is a very different kind of emotional scene. Even Syaoran has a temporary crush on Yukito (because of magic).
When she finally realises the she *is* in love with Syaoran, it hits much harder than in many other series, because it depicts how the feeling has developed organically but that you're not always aware until you're forced to reflect on it and it hits you in the face.
It also touches on the ambiguous line between loving someone as a close friend and having romantic feelings, as well as how one might act on that or not.
Tomoko says that she loves Sakura, in a way clearly portrayed as romantical, but that she's happy to be her friend forever. Just like Tomoko, we can't be sure if it's a passing crush created by the love from their close friendship that would eventually fade, or if it was deep romantic love and that she would always want to be with Sakura romantically.
It's also somewhat showing Yukito feeling the same way that Tomoko feels about Sakura, but towards Sakura's older brother, Touya. It's never made clear cut and seems a bit like Touya (much like Sakura) views him more as a close friend and/or is unsure of his feelings, even though there is a clear romantic subtext there. It's also worth noting that his feelings didn't change because of Yukito's magic.
If the story had demanded everything to be clear cut just so we could know if things were gay or not, it wouldn't have been as enjoyable.
It doesn't make sense for people that have previously not felt romantic feelings towards someone, to immediately figure them out and go all in, you know. Love is a complicated and often ambiguous thing.
Eyepatch wolf is getting a feeling so complicated.
I see what you did there.Clever little sneak.
Crazy Diamond Fuck you
Yoshikage Kira I didn't know they had youtube in hell(or whatever the heck you're in).
Crazy Diamond Not in hell you moron.Im a ghost detective
Yoshikage Kira oh. I didn't know ghosts can use youtube.
I think the whole issues with ambiguity in the show comes from the Japanese culture and their view on gay entertainment. Even though most like to believe otherwise, the Japanese culture is still extremely sexist and homophobic in their own way. When gay men are represented its always sexualized or for comedic affect. Surrounding countries such as Korea and China are even more homophobic now, ( I attend a university with over half the population to be international Asian students so my sources are my actual best friends ).
First of, I completely agree that the dialogue does not reflect what we see. I feel this may have occurred through the process of production, and for the show to get funding or even be approved they most likely made a script that seemed less gay. Yet, as production was approved and they began, I think the creators brilliantly made a more romantic show than what the producers had imagined. Even if that isn't the case, the ambiguity I think is the creators distancing themselves from BL.
As I said, gay men in anime are usually extremely sexualized and YOI is a show that is incredibly sophisticated and unique, really what I love about it is the anime is so different from typical anime. By avoiding to explicitly state their relationships, or how so many anime have excessive exposition summarizing what we can see with our eyes, YOI becomes a brand of its own. Then again, all the boys in this show have ass shots and are quite sexualized, but they're sexualized as men not as being gay. Which I love, of course the equality of sexualizing both sexes not just ones that are attributed feminine traits.
And even beyond that, Japan is pretty infamous for being one of the developed countries that censors its entertainment quite heavily, even porn. So, censoring the kisses and such really aren't a surprised in a culture that would see a gay kiss as something perverted.
But, you have to give it to Japan for being homophobic in somewhat of a more accepting way, if that makes sense. They attribute stereotypes to gay men and exploit their sexuality, but at least they get exposure? Anyway, overall my point is that the answer to the question about the source of ambiguity is external pressure of the Eastern culture. There ya go.
The nice thing is though, now that YOI is popular and well received, they're going to have much more freedom to do whatever they want, and hopefully be more open and explicit with Yuuri and Victor's relationship. Especially since the next thing they are doing is a Movie they have absolutely no reason to censor, because censorship rules are much different in movies than tv shows. And by explicit and uncensored I don't mean pushing the show into something sexually exploitative as in regular yaoi, I just mean that the creators will have complete freedom to express and expose the relationship as they please, regardless of it being a gay relationship.
"Anyway, overall my point is that the answer to the question about the source of ambiguity is external pressure of the Eastern culture. "
But it's not eastern culture though. Japan and China both had very rich and long homosexual traditions. It was western (especially religious) culture that suppressed and demonized homosexuality which lead to the change in attitude towards it.
No, not really. China and Japan especially have never had that much culture mix with western Europe/Australia and America. And if you want to go to the religious aspect, well Japan and China have extremely small christian populations with Japan having a history of persecuting christian minorities due to wanting to resist foreign influence, and china well.....is china.
Well maybe you ought to hit the history books because China and Japan have had huge cultural exchanges with the west for a long time.
You're putting blinders on if you don't think Asian culture assimilating and adopting western affectations wouldn't also include western Christian prejudice also
"Watching someone get punch very hard,very slowly"
Something tells me that Vento Aureo was one of Wolf's favorite JoJo part.
Arashi Vallerioda that would be part 4 actually(but he doesn't dislike part 5 at all).
Crazy Diamond I was making a JoJoke about how Golden Experience is able to slow down whoever it hits's perspective of time,making the punches very hard,and very slow.
Arashi Vallerioda I know,but I'm a party pooper so no fun allowed.
Crazy Diamond Just like your user...
's hair.
Arashi Vallerioda you've got 5 second head right now,use it well.
Just to help your prospective. When you are a competitive athlete, your sport is your life. It is all consuming. Love, family, everything takes a second spot. Victor's and Yuri's is very passionate and not as ambiguous as you think when you consider that. The sport is number one but they feel something so strong that they have to make their romance equal, not more important, thne skating. Every romantic moment has to do with skating because if it wasn't, it would mean the sport, this all consuming force that gives them meaning, would be second which is very dangerous for the career.
I see it more like the staff seeing how far they can go with the romantic subtext without getting the anime forced into the yaoi category in order to portray a gay relationship. And that's great for people within the LGBT groups in Japan, because quite frankly, yaoi/yuri aren't necessarily positive examples of gay media (*cough* straight gaze fap material *cough*).
tokyojesusfist Yeah I haven't read a lot of yuri, so it was completely unfair of me to generalize something I'm not familiar with. My mistake. I did say yaoi, though, not BL, which I would consider an umbrella term for both yaoi and shounen ai, though if I'm wrong on that front too then don't hesitate to correct me. Anyway, my understanding is that shounen ai usually has implicit sexual scenes, thought not always, while yaoi has explicit sexual scenes; scenes which are more often than not meant for the straight female gaze.
tokyojesusfist Oooooooh I've only approached BL from a western viewpoint which is why I didn't know that. Heard of bara but wasn't sure what it was. Thanks for the info!
The point is, LGBT people have lives too. They don't think about being homosexual all the time, just like heterosexual people don't think about being straight. They have interesting stories to tell. Yuri and Yaoi manga usually centers the story on them being homosexuals, and creates the drama around that. Yuri on Ice however, is a manga about people with interesting stories to tell, and the characters just happen to be homosexuals. There's a difference in focus. Portrayal of LGBT like in Yuri on Ice is better because it shows the characters as actual people instead of simply LGBT.
Not, not making the show focus on "gay issues" (bigotry, etc.) is what does that & hiding the gay relationship in a way they wouldn't if one of the characters was female is not what does that. They could still show the kiss and have the characters react to their romance (etc.) and they would still be actual people. I am not sure why you think hiding the gay makes them actual people. Either you have not thought through your argument, or your only accepting of gay things if they are nurtured (and why would that be?).
Apparently straight characters can do this stuff and its not about them being straight, but if two boys kiss, its not just two character kissing, its an issue or a statement. I feel that react has more to do with the viewer and less so the show itself.
You're a fucking idiot. if people can't see the difference between reality and fiction, they have issues.
is it just me, or does the concept of Yuri on ice being labeled as yaoi or boy's love seem troubling? yaoi is often created for straight women and the dynamic between the two male characters is almost always depicted as one being hyper feminine while the other is extremely masculine. It's treated almost like the concept of a gay relationship is just a fetish- and of course that's very troubling.
so, this is why I don't like Yuri on ice under the category of yaoi. I feel that the intention of the show was trying to subtly imply romance, but it wasn't necessarily the focal point, nor was it supposed to be fetishized. or maybe that's just me hoping that the idea of having gay romance being normalized in media (especially in a sports show, that'd really break stereotypes!) and hopefully normalize the idea of sexualities as a whole through representation
I think it's troubling that just because bl is marketed for mostly straight women it is inherently reductive or fetishistic.
@@lusteraliaszero It's not considered fetishistic just because its marketed toward straight women, it's considered fetishistic because it presents unrealistic, sanitized gay relationships specifically formulated for the titillation of a non-gay audience. If more of it was written with actual gay/bi men in mind (and thus showed realistic relationships and touched on issues that gay/bi men actually face in society) it wouldn't be seen as fetishistic. It's the same complaint lesbians and (especially) bi women have with the ways they are portrayed in media made with straight men in mind.
I agree with almost everything you said, but I disagree that the show intended to be subtle about the romance. That was clearly supposed to be one of the biggest parts of the story, but due to constraints placed on the production team by Japanese society (which is still pretty conservative on LGBT issues, all things considered), they had no choice but to dial things back a bit.
But why can't it just be portrayed as a romance?? Not a yaoi, not a sports anime, just romance?? Ughh
@@arpih6536 "some of them are such a talanted writers that just making the same story with opposite genders or simply pulling out romantic relationship out of it will make them millions of sales." that doesn't imply they're talented writers, that implies a big market. maybe they're talented DRAFTSMEN, but it doesn't take talent to genderflip characters. I've read lots of yaoi, I'm not speaking from anything but my own opinion. and you're literally just reading my message wrong, the top post is implying that it isn't yaoi because mostly women watch it, and I"m saying "it's not fetishistic or reductive just because only women watch it" I was literally speaking in defence of it.
I legit just said "I hope Super Eyepatch Wolf drops a vid today"
Get out of my head Charles
sickreferencebro.gif
Hahaha
No.
His name is charles?
Julio Dias Charles Xavier. The xmen man
I don’t see the arm covering the kiss as censorship rather it’s realism, Viktor is keeping Yuri’s head from hitting the ice and, you know, cracking open! That’s a full body tackle by Viktor, plus he doesn’t exactly have time to place his arms around Yuri... but HE IS PROTECTING YURI’S HEAD FROM BASHING INTO THE ICE!!!!
Agreed, I can't see that scene as censorship no matter how hard I try. It's a tackle ON FUCKING ICE! Protect the head and neck! Both arms on either side of Yuuri's head. No matter the side you see, an arm would be there. I've seen the fanmade uncensored version and it looks so off to me. Possible but less protection. Viktor is in love and is Yuuri's coach so he would instinctively go for more protection even when doing something on impulse. If Viktor didn't protect Yuuri, it would probably be a career ending injury. We know for sure its a canon kiss. Besides, I'm fairly certain they had an indirect kiss on Yuuri's ring in ep 11? Before Yuuri skated Eros. So I'm satisfied.
@@emijunkai YES!!!!
Can you heeeaarr...
My heart beeeaaat
Tired of feeling, never enough...
I close my eyes and tell myself that my dreams will come true.
Bitch, you'll never be naruto or pico.
THE PEOPLE SING! SINGING THE SONG OF ANGRY MEN!
Has Flamboyant feminine costumes, and involves posing a lot. I didn't think they were gonna release JJBA part 5 so soon.
Homophobia is still pretty strong in Japan, and I'm not sure how it influences anime production, but it could be a significant factor
From big producers, like in this case?
To be fair to Japan, they're having population issues, and since gay people don't reproduce, they may not want to have gay people until their population is larger. That's just a theory, though.
nerdwarp112 fun fact that a low population is what led christian people to believe that being gay is a sin.
You have no way of knowing what I said, then
Imma just head out, I don't wanna cause no trouble
My experience with YOI was a highly enjoyable one. It surely has some flaws, but I think that the good in it overpowers them.
I had EXACTLY the same problem with the series and got the SAME responses. I don't understand why the ambiguity is beneficial. I'm completely straight and I wanted the narrative to be completely open with their relationship and incorporated it, not to the point to be be all in your face, but that lack of confirmation heavily annoyed me. Still, I also liked the show a lot.
Axolotl de la Animacion it risks being labelled as 'shonen ai' and 'yaoi' if blatant with its romance, which the producers really, really didn't want to happen because of its connotations. there's a strange context surrounding japan in regards to homosexuality that's quite different to the west's, and considering it was made for a japanese audience, i don't think it's very fair to judge it with international eyes.
I feel like it's less about them being gay and more about Japan's thing against showing active romances in general. Sure, characters will get together or have romantic moments, but I feel like I've only seen an actual couple relationship ACTUALLY happening and being somewhat explored once or twice out of all the shows I've seen. Usually, if anything does happen, it's just implied or done offscreen in a very ambiguous way.
Jane Doe That sounds like a fair point, my problem may come from western audience treating it as something innovative in the whole same sex narrative representation. For example, we had Doukyusei that year.
The ambiguity is beneficial because they don't want it to be classified as a shonen ai series. It would limit its audience and sales.
Story wise? It's nice having a romance that's completely tied to the actual theme of the show.
+dracocrusher then how do you explain Kuzu no Honkai this season that features graphic lesbian and straight sex scenes?
As a gay man, I personally found this insightful and respectful of people "with more experience in same-sex relationships." Also, while I appreciate the consideration and respect toward lgbtq+, I also think anybody should be free to speak on this, if they have experience in relationships, in general. Bc we're just like other people. Love with us is the same as with straight lovers. The only thing I think would be better suited to be commented on by a gay person is the censoring due to the stigma, however you handled it in a very sympathetic manner, and I personally think your answer is what a lot of us would say, too. As it is still a real world issue. So, I still really don't see a problem, since you aren't being disrespectful of gay people or our relationships. You actually seem to be going to bat for us and are genuinely disappointed in the ambiguity, instead of outright confirmation. Plus, the relationship thing is really just played normally, not highly controversial, in universe, so I think commenting on the plot itself is also valid. Ultimately, I think it would be great for there to be more and bolder representation in anime and media in general, without fetishizing or stigmatizing it in either overly positive or negative ways, portraying it as just another relationship. However, I also realize that sadly not everyone is as accepting or even understanding of same-sex relationships, and that in some cases, it's even disdained. Which is heartbreaking, but at least we're making progress.
DRAWING ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE BRAIN! It's a god-tier learn-to-draw book that I and lots of other artists always recommend to beginners. Buy it!!
I know this video is old and nobody is going to read this, but all the same. I see a lot of theorizing about why YoI was so ambiguous about Victor and Yuri’s relationship, from censorship to budget to discomfort. And while I’m sure some of those things may have played a small role, I honestly believe that a not insignificant reason behind it is that Japanese people are just a lot more subtle about love and romance. There’s a reason Souseki Natsume translated the phrase “I love you” as “The moon is beautiful, isn’t it.” PDA isn’t common, and actually telling someone you love them is rarely done. I would argue this goes double for same-sex couples, who are still stigmatized in a lot of places. The creators obviously didn’t mean to leave it to interpretation, and actually seemed confused when western audiences needed confirmation of the kiss.
Your complaints about the weird subtext of the romance are completely legitimate! For a show that's being hailed as revolutionary when it comes to LGBT romance by a lot of it's fans, it sure does skirt around the subject alot. It inserts all these big romantic moments and gestures, and then have neither the characters or the world around them, react to it at all. This really begs the question whether that moment really meant what it did after all.
The show was enjoyable, and I sure did have fun with it as it was airing, and is by no means actively bad, but I feel like I needed something more concrete from the show. I also think the popularity of it (and therefore the chance of it getting a second season rising) did affect the later half of the show. Some of the decisions and character moments didn't exactly line up with the decisions made in the last half of the show, and the same might be said for the romance. They may just leave people hanging as to persuade them to come back for a second season.
I would love to believe that, but the fact that this season ends with with such an open ending as to allow a second season really makes me doubt it. This show is an anime original story which was by all means supposed to be one cour, so I don't see how the way the show ended was what they had planned from the get go.
I 100% agree that what Yuri on ice has done is in now way "new" or "groundbreaking", which should be totally fine! A show doesn't need to be that in order for people to enjoy it. The fandom's insitance that it is, however(along with Kubo, one of the writers, seemingly feeding into that idea), makes it seem like there is a disconnect between what the show is and what alot of the consumers think it is. This might be wholly unique to the western fandom though.
My criticisms on the romance do still stand, and if there is to be a season 2 I hope they actually adress the romantic part of their relationship.
I liked that it was gay with the gay aspect not taking the main stage, most media regardinng gay people is rather bland where its always about the fact that the people like the same sex , sure its not revolutionary but its decent and less focused on the aspect of their sexuality making it seem more natural
The only revolutionary LGBT romance is Berserk ;)
Griffth x Guts
#GriffithDidNothingWrong
I recall reading an interview stating that the team had already planned out the ending far in advance before it became popular. Thus, in terms of story they didn't change major character moments. As for romance, that is left ambiguous because Yuri is unaware that the love he has for Victor is romantic love. Victor seems to love Yuri romantically, and knows that Yuri's gestures (such as the ring) are signs of romantic love, but Yuri hasn't recognized this himself yet. Recall, Yuri has never been in a relationship before so he doesn't know what love feels like. If a second season comes out I think the ambiguity will fade away rather quickly.
SereneVendetta 2016 wow, delete this lol
1:28 "One thing I wanna get STRAIGHT..."
I am so sorry...
Omg i literally said to myself "or do you...?"
Good lord, Thank You. Your analysis of the show is spot-on. An the fact you genuinely like it, and was able to pinpoint it high and its lows makes this video very enjoyable. Thank you so much.
The ambiguity in the Yuri/Victor relationship was there because the show barely got the green light for public broadcast. And by barely I mean that despite the lack of any physical evidence of their relationship, the anime was still aired at 3am when no easily influenced minors could possibly be awake... Japan is fine with yaoi so long as it's censored and kept away from their impressionable youth, but they haven't yet reached the level of public acceptance that western shows now have. YoI was actually considered to be pretty groundbreaking for even managing to get a broadcast slot, but Japan still has a long way to go
Such a fantastic review video. I agree with every single point you make, and I always love these types of reviews that say that even though a show has flaws, that doesn't mean it's unwatchable. Every show has it's downsides, and it's important to acknowledge them, but it's also important to recognize it's strengths as well. And this video represented that idea masterfully.
There's something Digibro said that resonated with me and that's that their emotional relationship is never challenged. Like it's never in doubt that both of them are in love with each other and all the challenge comes from their student/teacher relationship. But there's never any work put in to show them figuring their emotions out, which I wanted more than the "Will Victor return to skate professional or not and is Yuri holding him back" plot.
I agree with ambiguity, yuri on ice was an important anime to integrate lgbt representation into anime, not as a fetish but as a normal couple, but I hope in the future we'll get representation that will explore many more aspect of relationship of characters
With the kiss, it got censored. When it was written, even in the storyboard, the kiss (and other parts such as the dialogue) was in the original story, but the company (I think it was the company) forced her to censor it.
I think it was also done to avoid being put into the BL category because BL generally seen as bad (particularly in Japan)
I think the company may have want to censor it for a bigger audience, but also, for international censoring. USA has a reputation of censoring gay couples in Anime. So the wouldn't need to change it.
tokyojesusfist calm down about the BL. I didn't say BL WAS bad, I just said it's seen as bad. Look, I have read majority of published BL on the internet (I'm not saying that lightly), I am lesbian, and I live less than a 10 min walk away from ikebukuro the world capital of BL. But reading/watching BL has a bad reputation in Japan. Many girls come to ikebukuro with cosplay/ wigs/ masks when they go into BL stores. And in anime this kinda censoring is normal done to avoid the "BL title".
てんし A being gay is illegal in Russia, the home country if Victor, right (haven't watched the anime yet)? So making it more ambiguous can it possibly be shown at Russian TV
Oh boy, I actually have seen at least 6 or so Japanese people put their two cents in on this, and I'm familiar with how BL is typically written, and it seems to go like this:
The forced vagueness absolutely because it's a fantastic indulgence for the enjoyment of women. Japanese women have a specific genre of romantic idealism based around ambiguity, something akin to the Japanese notion that the less you see of the monster, the more scary it is; the less you see of the romance, the more you can juice out the details in your mind.
The problem is that for people who want a tangible storyline, this sort of vague indulgent fantasy has less place in a story than a bodice ripper in an otherwise realistic coming-of-age story, and it flies in direct contradiction with the experience of gayness in Japan, where the culture tells you that because it's 'strange' to be gay, you have to hide it and never discuss it or let it be part of your identity or acknowledge it exists.
I think one? Japanese person described this in detail, where in Japan, all gay people in media are either happily closeted or in a fantasy world where oppression is fake and being open about your relationship is effortless, and while Yuri on Ice doesn't worsen this situation, its existence more or less feeds into it.
It's a lot less offensive for Western viewers because in the West, we depict gayness as villainous, or the cause for great distress and suffering, thanks to old-fashioned religious teachings, so an idealized romcom world where these characters can kiss and nothing happens is considered unique and a pleasant break away from their own concept of homophobia.
I don't have sources because this was months ago, but more or less, That.
If you're interested in more Good-Ass Writing on the LGBT experience in Japan, the manga Shimanami Tasogare is a heavy-hitter that really digs into the vague, imprecise nature of a less self-oriented culture without whiffing the representation itself like YoI does. It's a simple manga about a renovation&deconstruction company run by what amounts to a LGBT support group, and uses explosively gorgeous abstractions to communicate intense but nameless emotions. Really stellar work.
pretty spot on.
I just had to come back here and thank you for recommending such a beautifully drawn and written manga.
There's this amazing manga and live action film adaptation called Love My Life that's about a lesbian couple. It's fantastic in its realism but only slightly takes on the concept of homophobia, though it deals with some other serious concepts, such as self-discovery and emotional infidelity.
Thank you for posting this, I was about to say that the ambiguity was there because its part of the fantasy for straight women in Japan and its something that has existed for a very long time. Everyone else seems to be missing the point.
@@neilworms2 yeah, same as with J-Pop bands and fanservice.
Not showing the kiss in this series is a multi--answer type of question. Part of it may lie in the fact that Yuri!!! On Ice is a made for tv series, and most tv series, not just anime, tend to flaunt the scenario of "they nearly kissed but not quite" to entice viewers of romantic shows to come back for the next episode or season. However, that can't be the only answer since very clearly as shown in the mentioned diagram, Yuuri and Viktor have indeed kissed.
Many people I'm sure have mentioned before me that Japan is not particularly forth-coming with the idea of homosexuality being an every day thing, fetishization of gay couples in japan is different to how it's done in America as well. There, it's more like "Awww they're so cute, they kissed!" and "Dawww they're holding hands", nearly likening the couple to a pair of puppies then human beings in a relationship. *pls for the love of all that is good, remember that not everyone is like this* It's important to remember as well this is made by a media studio, headed under producers and investment people who all have varying degrees of power in what does and doesn't get aired on television, not to mention personal beliefs. As a result it is still possible (despite this show being such an international hit) that a kiss scene in Yuri!!! On Ice, despite being needed in that emotional moment for the story and characters, could not be aired unless that hint of ambiguity was shown for the bigwigs above.
In my own consumption of yaoi and BL over the years it is decisions like this that make it hard for me to fully enjoy a show like Yuri!!! On Ice to its full capacity; it's also why I don't normally watch romantic anime as I wish to see relationships actually GO somewhere. However, the beauty of Yuri!!! On Ice is how much it isn't just another BL or yaoi series. Characters are not fetishized for their sexual orientation, nor is anyone forced or coerced into a sexual scenario they don't wish to be in, both Yuuri and Viktor have feminine and masculine characteristics (like real human beings do) that allow them to not fall into the trappings of the traditional 'seme' and 'uke' roles, not to mention the entire cast is not gay-however most of the times their love of skating takes over what else we could learn about them-or bisexual, but a wonderful mixture, just as in real life.
I love Yuri!!! On Ice not only because it showcases real relationships blooming in various different ways, but that it also showcases a person's love and passion for something I myself had never thought too much about. Yurii!!! On Ice is an emotional show, meant to speak straight to your heart, with a soundtrack that utterly kills, and a level of production I haven't seen in a long time for a show with these themes. I applaud Sayo Yamamoto for the hard work she puts into this series and others she has worked on in the past, and with this success I hope we get to see more shows like this on the air. Shows where real thought, passion, and effort has been put into the product, story, and characters so that we may love them as much as the creators do.
*side note: I'm astonished anyone bothered to read that tl;dr comment, thank you*
I agree, late night television has always been home to the niche and more inventive ideas of the media, no matter what country one tends to live in. But if we haven't worked on the series ourselves it's difficult to say what does or doesn't happen behind the scenes, just like any other show. I don't think one point is more important than the other but they do help cohesively bring together a bigger picture.
I wouldn't call BL new, even if it's history doesn't go as far back as anime. Although from my own perspective Yuri!!! On Ice leans more towards a sports anime with a romantic plot swirled into the mix. I enjoy that since most of my tastes don't always happily lean towards purely romantic main plots in stories.
notafangirl 💜
Well said. I read this kind of "gay but maybe not gay, i mean, if you don't want it to be *wink*" attitude as being fujoushi bait. Like baiting fetishists without actually committing to the more serious and unapologetic love story that can't be shoved under a rug of "its actually straight because its just about coach and student and self improvement". It comes across as pandering to the pro-lgbt audience while trying not to alienate those with homophobic reservations.
As a gay guy I see it all the time in entertainment and it really turned me off to this series. I wish they'd have committed, but like you said a lot of people are involved in a production like this and it's hard to put a thumb on who is to blame for the wishy washy ambiguity.
eyepoo It is genuinely a shame the decision to not go the full distance showing the true moment between Yuri and Victor was made. I'm hoping the creators will see the reactions of fans to it will be heartening to them and the creator community of anime and manga creators that lgbt+ subject matter and characters are nothing the industry can't handle, and is something that can only bring good; both for them and the fans of anime around the world. Like I've said before I enjoy Yuri!!! On Ice because it's main themes are mainly on emotions themselves, and how to deal with them in order for us as human beings grow. That's probably why not showing the kiss rubs me the wrong way; when the emotion gets translated into action, they suddenly skittered away from really committing, which undermines the whole theme of the show. I'm still willing to give the 2nd season it's chance though, and I'll still likely purchase the series on dvd.
i call it the mulder an skully effect. With x-files. people kept watching to see if they got together. when they finally got together the dynamic changed and the ratings dropped dramatically. people are more interested in the drama of them getting together than them living happily ever after an i'm guessing they want to do a second season.
I agree leaving Yuri and Viktors relationship as not 100% confirmed is annoying. I suppose I'm much more willing to forgive this aspect because a good BL anime is like finding a unicorn. The vast majority of BL anime is absolute shit with the only things from it that I'd consider to be good is Doukyuusei (which came out this year) and this. So as someone who wants to enjoy BL personally, just having an anime that lays it on this thick even if its not an open and shut deal is amazing
The movie trailer just dropped and the internet is doing a triple meltdown. It's November 5th 2: Electric Boogaloo
Honestly my biggest problem is that this won best animation. Should have gone to Mob Psycho
It's sad but that's reality T_T
fuck fugioshies
Dark soul Gael wow, I can’t believe from a bunch of shockingly mature comments about it there’s this one that just sounds from either a weirdo 30-something virgin year old that will just accept his fav Waifu anime or a 13 year old little kid who just discovered anime, fufufufu~ how amusing.
I don't care about what you just said. mob psycho got snubed
Dark soul Gael that won’t take away any fact, nor any of my words.
L
I feel you on a spiritual level bro.
I love Yuri on Ice, but those aspects about the romance and the many characters is what I kinda didn't like as well.
About the kiss scene... I guess it was censored. You know, Japanese people.
Now they just have to get married damn it.
*****
Kubo Mitsurou actually confirmed it via twitter. She wrote: “Is it just me or something synchronized with Nigehaji this week?”
This is a drama which aired around the same time and in this week, the main characters also kissed for the first time.
Why would Victor hug him and then tell Yuri: "This was the only thing I could think of to surprise you more than you have me."?
Surely this wouldnt impact Yuuri at all.
And Kubo twittered something else regarding the view of gay people in Japan and Russia and that in the world she created, there's no hate against homosexuality.
But it's hard to find on the internet, need time to search for it, which I have not.
Sorry my english's a bit rusty.
tokyojesusfist yeah those matching gold rings they put on each other in front of a church...
those were friendship rings
tokyojesusfist the creator outright confirmed it, are you in touch with "objective reality"?
***** you were given proofs on another comment on this video you refused to acknowledge. It's in tumblr because the interviews are in Japanese, and people translate those to English. If you wanna be blind that's you're problem, but don't claim to be cannon, because in a Q&a Kubo said that's something she doesn't like (and if ofc you selectively choose to not believe me, it was said on an event of live viewing with Kubo sensei and the VAs of YOI about a week ago)
***** translation of Japanese =\= interpretation
From what I've readed, the anime shows a non explicit relationship because of the japanese weird homophobic rules in animes and also because it isn't a yaoi anime, it's a sport one, so all the romance as the life beyond the skate isn't all explicit because is not what is the show about. But I also feel that maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe all the non explicitness could it be to make... idk.. debate? Within all of the times when it could be but it could be not there wouldn't be so many comments and discutions in the social media about it when it came out, but that is just my opinion.
tokyojesusfist all the BL Yaoi and Yuri you're talking about are either porn for straight guys and girls, or fetishized gender roles (Uke or Seme) where one is the "boy" in the relationship and the other is the "girl." These are all poor representations of romantic relationships, much less same sex ones. It is shown throughout the whole show (especially in the ending scene of ep 10) that Yuuri and Victor have an actual relationship not held back by gender roles or sexual fantasies. Some times Victor is the leader, and other times it's Yuuri. that's how fluid their "roles" are. It's a surprisingly innocent romance of two people rather than, "look at these two boys kissing! Isn't it so smexy?!" That's the difference. If the writers show too much, they run the risk of it being labeled incorrectly and that does effect the sales. Surprisingly, BL and GL don't sell that well in Japan and it's down right illegal in Russia. There are more Yaoi and Yuri because it's porn, not romance. But actual Boys Love and Girls Love is rare and underrepresented. Sorry for the rant, but I hope this clears things up.
So, this is the video that got me to watch Yuri!!! On Ice. And, while the show does have issues, I fell head over heels for it. Thanks for getting me to check it out. This is the second time you've got me to watch a show, the other being Mob Pyscho.
Even in Yaoi and BL the main characters are always saying stuff like "I'm not gay, but maybe if it's with you..." Despite outwardly being accepting of LGBT people, I think Japan has a homophobia problem, although most Japanese probably wouldn't admit that. So a show like this, where the relationship is outwardly accepted and rooted for by their peers, is a progressive take on romance that doesn't need a more obvious kiss scene, IMO. The exchanging of rings was so much more powerful to me than any kiss scene, especially for me as an American, where gay marriage wasn't legal until *5 years ago.* Also, it's worth mentioning that PDA in Japan is so horribly frowned upon and yet Yuri is rarely embarrassed to be embraced by Victor in public or in front of cameras, which is refreshing for me as a fan of romance anime in general (although this may just be a thing in competitive figure skating).
Anyway I watched Yuri!!! On Ice for the first time during quarantine 2020 in one sitting a couple nights ago and I wanna watch the whole thing again. I really hope the movie or season 2 will actually come out this year.
"We call everything on the ice " I think this line shows us why they meshed sports and love together. Sports is their life and now they have romance to add to the mix. The ice is their love and they love each other.
I don't have a problem with the way the relationship was portrayed because it comes off fairly realistic to me. If I was in the public eye and at a tournament with cameras n shit everywhere and I hadn't announced the relationship through a publicist yet, I wouldn't have even risked the kiss in the first place. Victor is Russian and the hidden kiss happens when they're in China (I think). I get that in the universe the story is told in there isn't supposed to be homophobia anymore...but if the story took place in our universe, a public kiss like that would seriously endanger their lives. That level of 'ambiguity' has been the reality for a lot of gay couples when they're in the public eye for decades. That said, scenes where they were in private could have been a little more overt, but I always read that as Yuuri just being a shy dood and Victor just being Russian.
Honestly, my problem with the show is how it skirts around the competition aspect of the series in favor of character growth... I just can't come to care for the characters if the sport itself is merely a backdrop for them...
"what's all this romance doing in my sports anime?"
I'm still waiting for that "Ice Adolescence"-film...
I loved Yuri!!! on ice exactly *because* the romance is never the focus. when you watch alot of yaoi/bl, you've seen a lot of fetishizing, toxic "love" and horrible character writing, so this felt just so wholesome, for a series even in its romance-subplot not to be defined by its 'romance', but by its *characters* (and for both yuri and victor iceskating is so important, it narratively makes sense to focus so much on it in the anime).
"never genuinely giving the two a a romantic moment" I feel like every anime does that though... In most anime the characters with romantic feelings for each other don't ever kiss. I think this may have something to do with Japan's different cultural perceptions on what is consider erotic and what isn't. A kiss is considered Romantic in the west, but is too explicitly erotic for any anime that isn't ecchi or hentai. It also may be why they chose to censor the kiss in the way they did.
As many people have pointed out (see the comment from Cecil Palmer) there are many reasons the show didnt latch onto the romance between yuri and viktor. but the main one is the attitude surrounding same sex couples in japan/anime. if you ever watch any Shounen-ai (BL) or Yaoi you will notice a trend of one of the characters being pretty gay (but never admitting it) and the other being confused or rejecting the idea of being with another man. from there a lot of shows will lead you through a story that is voyeuristic as the couples come together only behind closed doors. I have watched very few Yaoi where the characters are openly gay and accept themselves, and the romance is natural like it would be in any other romance anime (i can actually only think of two). the fact that a couple is romantically involved and the same sex in japan would change the genre (because it cant just be labeled romance if its two men... which is dumb) and it also raises the rating which would cause a time slot change. so these are some more reasons the romance in yoi is veiled, even if thinly veiled.
The ambiguity is completely ok. It's better than going balls to the wall and writing literal yaoi, cause that would alienate the other 50% of the audience. I also think that people forget that all anime relationships are always super ambiguous. I mean look at the straight pairings, one blushes towards the other and it's already considered Canon that they're in love. I don't think we need them to spell it out for us or come out to each other (please God no) to accept that they love each other.
I find staight people, especially girls, who are fans of BL/Shounin ai, are much more commonly content with subtext because it doesn't really apply directly to them. Its not their representation and they're happy to speculate, read and write fanfic, etc without issue. Its just their ships which dont /have/ to be canon. Of course this isnt the case for everyone but it is a trend i've seen and i'd be surpirsed if any of the girls that messaged Super Eyepatch Wolf saying ambiguity doesnt matter were gay themselves.
But for actual LGBT people abiguity is much less appreciated yknow, because it so easily dissolves into tired batch after tired batch of queerbaiting without any actual respect for our relationships. Having something actual confirmed? And disscussed and ackowledged? Thats pretty amazing.
For YOI from what i understand it was a censorship issue, reminding me our societies arent always as progressive as we think they are. I don't know if it was also just the production team content with those restrictions or if there was any fighting for this representation (i really dont know the details). But regardless, I definitely agree that to have these characters actually talk about their relationship, the kiss, etc would've increased the quality of the show for me as well as increased the believability/relatability of its characters. Overall I also enjoyed the show but wish they hadnt leaned on so much subtext. Still, with how few nicely made non-fetishizing LGBT animes out there, i still appreciated YOI for what it was haha
Excellent review!
I have watched Yuri! On Ice multiple times, due to the way music affects the characters. I’m a dancer, and I’m easily affected by music, and the music did just that. I couldn’t help but start to tear up when Yuri on Ice started to play in the background of this video. I cannot express how much joy and nostalgia this show provides for me. It opened doors for me, doors that I closed off, due to me being scared of being loved. Seeing how Yuri was closed off in the beginning, and opening up once more and being confident in the end, showed that I could be confident and be more expressive of my own emotions.
This anime reminded me why I enjoyed dance, and why I continued to dance for so long. I could easily place myself in Yuri’s shoes, and picture Victor as the dancer that I’ve looked up to for my whole life. Yuri! On Ice reminded me why I shouldn’t let people affect my own emotions, like how Yurio affected Yuri’s confident.
Gonna be honest I can't get into the whole male fan service shows it just feels very uncomfortable to have so much yaoi and overly femine men and costumes. I'm not a girl nor am I interested in ice skating just wanted to see if anyone else agrees
Edit: in no way am I homophobic I love gay people they're cool as hell all I said is I don't like male fan service and asked if anyone felt the same if u don't agree with what I said I do not care I repeat I DO NOT CARE I wanted to see if other people agreed with me and as a side note I've watched the entire season of yuri on ice my comment isn't a stance on homophobia or sexism it's a RUclips comment move on...
Afro Brazilian bro this show is in nooooooooooo way my cup of tea
Seems to be more about appealing to the homosexual demographic, which is fine to me. This specific show just became popular because it did it's combined elements so well.
if it helps, I'm not into Yaoi my self but this show does it very tastefully and it is just good romance/comedy/sport show.
now you know how most women feel about 80% of anime.
Luchingador I agree, I dropped it because it's uncomfortable to watch.
!!!!! THANK YOU FOR THE GOOD ART BOOK REC THAT LOOKS AWESOME !!!!!!
It isn't for me, but I like that it exist. It might be a gateway anime for a large group of people that saw anime as just shonen style battles over and over (which aren't bad, but there is a lot of more to anime than shonen).
Well, I guess I finally need to actually make time and watch Yuri on Ice.
Pack it up boys; it's time to make history
I remember after the ending of YOI, there were two different responses from America and Japan. Japanese fans praised and thanked the creator for the ending, while American fans felt that the ending was lackluster and were disappointed. I don't know the specific reasons as to why this is the case, however.
teapotcutie the kiss scene was a reference to a popular drama that aired the same week from what I've heard.
Sigh.... I don't comment often. And I think it is the first time I commented here, despite having seen most of your videos (even the ones about shows i don't even watch) But since you took it upon yourself to make a serious video about a show that I love very dearly, i thought I'd get myself together. Because you pointed out every single thing that I myself have an issue with. The animation being to ambitious, the overwhelming amount of characters and the never ending ambiguity of Victor and Yuri.
And I really do wish I could give a answer that was better than this, but the reason why Yuri and Victor are not getting anywhere are simply because it's gay. It sound ridiculous but it's the truth. The only yaoi anime there is is usually much more censored and are never given a budget that would allow an anime like this. My guess is that is was sold on the sport anime part and then the director went as far with the romance as she could.
Yaoi are popular but as homosexual relationships are still a bit iffy in japan it not something that is seen as being profitable. Sure there are yaoi anime, but the ones I know of (which are very limited as Im a new anime/manga fan) a lot are often problematic in one way or another. The amount of stories with a soft relationship like this is few and far between, even among manga.
And in the end this is a sport anime. And with that in mind the relationship that victor and Yuri are allowed to have are borderline revolutionary. I love sport anime as I they often have a great character development, but all of them are always teasing making two males have the perfect chemistry, and yet nothing but suggestive comments and long looks are all it ever becomes. And with that in mind I hope you can see why most fans of the genre (be it sport or yaoi) like it and willing accept the small pieces we are given.
And this got much longer than i meant it to....
I actually find the "ambiguity" to be one step further to normalizing the relationship they have. You see, what comes into the Western world from Japanese media isn't the average TV show you get there. I used to watch TV using Keyhole all the time, and I have many relatives who live there (or never left Japan in the first place) and, quite honestly, romantic and sexual involvement isn't really discussed at all on a social level, apart from crude jokes or gossiping, and they're *very* strict about PDA. Being "too outspoken" about your relationship isn't good PR, saying that you're seeing someone can be seen as crude even if you're like sleeping at their place four times a week - and the trope that LGBTQ+ couples, specially same-sex male ones, are flamboyant and automatically out of tune with the rest of society (not in the "I stand my ground" way, which basically doesn't exist in their collective mind, but rather the "I get in the way of everyone" one) is one I'm way too tired of seeing, specially in BL/yaoi works (of which I know YOI isn't part, but still). Thus, the fact that Yuuri doesn't really feel the need to say to the world "I am this guy's husband" (instead he can choose to announce how Victor's "love" was important in more general terms because he *knows* people will get the memo) actually makes him a more credible person in Japanese society, even if context still leaves no real room to question the romantic nature of their relationship (among many other kinds of love they share, which actually please me as an aroace who's never quite satisfied with the development of other aspects in a romantic relationship other than romance itself) - and it's kind of adorable to see how they basically live in a homophobia-free world as Phichit gladly announces a whole... Restaurant? Tent? Idk that his friend's getting married. Really, as seemingly realistic as a romance anime can be, I can hardly name one I find likely to actually unfold like portrayed in real world - LGBTQ+ or otherwise. Yuri on Ice is still not very realistic on the account that a LGBTQ+ couple would hardly be as easily accepted as they are (but this sorta suspension of disbelief is good to LGBTQ+ viewers, honestly), but otherwise, yeah, that's *very* realistic.
PS: That's not to say queerbaiting is ok. What counts as baiting depends on cultural parameters, though, and Yuri on Ice, while being maybe a tad too ambiguous to a Western audience, was clearly obvious enough to their domestic audiences, as we can see with Kubo's mention on Twitter of how the only ones asking if what happened in episode 7 was a kiss were foreigners.
I don't have an issue with the sport/romance balance. I think it reflects the way real life works somewhat. It's unfortunate but we often spend more time working than we do with our loved ones or pursuing relationships. I also appreciate the lack of sexual focus as I get pretty tired of constant sex in portrayals of gay relationships. Many gay relationships end up written as being entirely about the sexual aspects and the romance is very shallow. I figure that's part of why the yaoi crowd tend to not have issue with the ambiguity.
Yeah I'm totally in the, "What's this (weird ambiguous) romance doing in my sports anime?"
One other thing I had wrong with this series is that personally I didn't feel like I really knew Victor. Personally it feels like Victor is trying to hide something or is not being completely genuine. idk thats just how i feel about it
My favourite is Yurio too!! I love him the best. His routines were the most beautiful to me. But yeah, the story is really good. I really enjoyed watching it and I do believe that more guys should be like you and watch it. It’s okay if you don’t like yaoi or gay romance. The story itself is good so give it a chance.
I wish I had a lover to help me with my anxiety issues and self-doubt.
As someone who's fond of Ice Skating, I'm in the former camp of. . ."I thought this was a sports anime." On that point, it was listed as a sports anime, and maybe Drama, while Boy-Love and Romance aren't even on the genre list and THAT is where the show started to fall through for me. There are a crap ton of faults with this show, but that's what got the ball rolling I think.
Where is the salt? wow i really enjoy the way you tell YOI flaws without been a hater, i will be looking for your further content
I always assumed that the ambiguity and shifting focus of the show has to do with the fact that the two main characters are extremely competitive figure skaters, half athlete/half artist, and that they've sublimated everything in their lives (including romance) into their craft.
8:29 Wait, you worked on animation projects?
I posted this comment on another YOI video but i might as well reiterate it here:
I wish YOI had sold ice skating to me and the thrill of doing it. Maybe it wasn't the main focus like the relationship was but it always gets you more invested when you see why the characters are so passionate about what they do. I know there are differences of opinions, some got into skating some didn't. I'm not arguing if YOI peaked your interest in skating or not, or if it got you to try a new sport. What I'm trying to say is, for an anime with 70% of the time spent skating by different competitors, I fail to engage with why they're skating. I wanted the show to have at least addressed the issue of why skating is exciting, Why its appealing to each individual, and Why each of them got started doing it.
Also, Yurio was a fabulous foil to Yuri and it was so sad to see him shelved after the first 3 episodes. I kind of wished the show focused on the two of them instead of Yuri and Viktor because it would have been so interesting to see as well as adding another layer to the "Yuri on ice" title.
BTW, Eyepatch, so uh, have you watched Rakugo yet?
Nice video! (this is gonna be long so sorry in advance). About the kiss on ep 7 tho, yes, it is a little vague, but I've read an interview from Kubo (i forgot which one) confirmed that it really is a kiss and it was clear enough for the Japanese fans that they got the hint and they were satisfied with such scene. So I guess the fact that it might feel not enough for wider (and much western, i presume) audience it's because that we're used to demand and received actual, visual proof of a particular couple are canon (like 'oh, a kiss scene', and 'a sex scene!' or something like that) and this kind of proof was deemed a little weak for some audience. (i suppose if i'm wrong then correct me, i'd be happy to talk about it)
Although, I do agree with the lack of acknowledgement of it in later episodes (actually there is one part where Victor does acknowledge the kiss but it's really, really vague so it's possible that it's not true so I overlooked that). It's kinda bothering me too and but then again I couldn't really say much about that since YOI was juggling between the sports and romance aspects AND it has only one-cour of the season. I guess maybe in season 2 (hopefully there will be, ahh) they can develop Yuuri and Victor's relationship better than before and a little detached from the coach-student aspect, since both of them actually still have some misunderstandings to clear up. Although that might be a little hard since Yuuri and skating seem inseparable ahaha.
tldr; actually despite the vagueness of the kiss scene in ep 7, it was confirmed that it's real and it was enough.
Sorry if my comment was a bit bumbling amd jumbled up. Thank you for giving this anime a chance for you to watch I guess? idk i'm naturally happy for people liking this anime for its great points! Once again, great video, and you practically voiced most of my concerns for the anime so thank you! and please do continue the great work!
tokyojesusfist ah i found the interview ( toraonice.tumblr.com/post/157098497035/yuri-on-ice-interview-translation-pash-201703 ) so yea it turned to be rather interpretative but honestly tho after she tweets this ( yuri-on-ice-confessions.tumblr.com/post/153350855676/gotohellsenpai-kubo-confirmed-victor-and-yuri ) I lean towards the side where they really do kiss. As for the physical part i feel like that it was just a really brief kiss so... hm. Victor was also covering Yuuri's head when they fall. But hey, it's interpretative.
Yeah, like I totally see it as a kiss, I just wish they were a little more up front with it
toraonice has mistranslations that no homo their relationship intentionally... i'd point towards @ aki_the_geek on twitter
fluffthoughts ah yeah i actually wanted to refer to that but since it's on twitter it's kinda hard to find the exact tweet tho haha (^^;)
I only went ice skating two times last year, which was very depressing for me. This is inspired me to this year go skating as much as humanly possible for me and my personal life. I do roller skate quite a bit more than ice skating. I want to, however, start to translate some of the tricks that I do on my roller skates onto the ice. I washed this entire series last night and I may be got 3 hours of sleep this morning because I decided to stay up all night because I couldn't pull myself away. I'm really really hoping that they put a second series of this out, and I know that studios have so much on their plate, and sometimes I have a hard time funding the projects. I'm hoping that with the fan base that this has acquired that that will be enough support for them to be able to continue this series, even if it's just for one more season I would be satisfied. Their love story and my genuine loving care for all the characters is immense. I find them all really adorable and interesting, and I would like to see the characters story lines come out more, not to mention Yuri and Victor's relationship. This definitely is right up my alley, and it was an anime that I didn't realize I needed in my life until I watched it last night. I cried and I laughed so hard, I probably kept the family member that was visiting me this weekend up all night too because of how emotional I was getting over the show. It's a little pathetic, but I'm not ashamed.
beautiful bois
-super eyepatch wolf
Jesus, listening to the piano music again fills me with nostalgia... I love this show
Lots of men insecure about their masculinity in these comments, I can see
LOL IT S OK GUYS, MASCULINITY IS NOT ABOUT WHAT U WATCH (lowkey enjoy all type of relationship.... except furies... and robots....)
bulaluigi I'm not insecure it's just very uncomfortable, it could be gay but not in the way it was presented.
MadAnili robots and furries 😂
MadAnili emm wat
if you're that obsessed with pointing out people's masculinity who's the one being insecure again?
I'm so glad you made the point about the ambiguity because that's what really bothered me in the end. Impressions from the internet made me think it would be more overt than it was, and I ended up disappointed by this ambiguity in the end. Thanks for putting clearer words to these thoughts.
RE zero was infinetly way more interesting than this anime.
Darknesscoming
thats not saying much
The witch's theme alone inspired more feelings from me...
Get better taste
Unshaved Malevolence get an understanding of subjectivity..
both are mediocre
Yeah because a wedding ring and engagement is very ambiguous.
The Japanese have a funny relationship with LGBT themes, especially in media. It's rarely ever shown in a serious way, especially between adults. And by serious I mean realistic--rather than hyper-sexualised or shojo-ified to a ridiculous degree. I've seen a lot of interviews and such of Japanese people discussing it, and they often speak of it being largely a western thing (which is odd considering the long history of mlm relationships in Japan). It was discussed almost as if (and forgive me for this generalisation) it's something that mostly only exists on in fiction and rarely happens in life--a genre thing. Considering the prevailing Japanese attitude towards romantic relationships and privacy, and their social more of protecting the status quo, I think they tend to think in terms of ambiguity in life as well as media when it comes to same sex relationships.
Now, I could definitely say some things about why keeping it subtextual sucks for LGBT representation (and why that representation is so important in the first place), but to be fair, it was honestly a step forward compared with other anime flirting with the idea but burying it MUCH more. No, what really bothered me was how it robbed the audience of a concrete, satisfying payoff. The romance between Viktor and Yuri was a major, major part of the story, maybe the most important, and having that plotline skim over all the payoff after making the audience invested in the progression was a big blow for the watchability of this anime.
I still enjoyed it though. I love sports AND romance anime--and I'm queer so it really had everything for me ^_^ Really great video, you put all my thoughts into words!!
The kiss who brought up so many conflicts lol IT WAS TOTALLY A KISS! glad you are on my side hahahaha
Please make a video about Sangatsu no Lion
Okay but like the that intro for YOI doeeee it slaps hard
Most of the discussions on YOI are either butthurt haters who say things like 'They only like it because its gaaaay' along these lines and people calling it just mediocre because, that just happens when something is popular - some people come and just call it mediocre to just look like they are something better. A video like this was therefore refreshing. So thank you.
If YOI showed one thing then that the anime community has way too many whiners in it and a bunch of people who can't differentiate animation and art from each other. The same exists also in the gamer community -concerning other topics - where people just say the usual lines like they are gramophones. It's boring me.
I think the kiss scene was portrayed like that, taking a theory I read that I liked in acount, because Yuri was on the ice so Vic combined the kiss with a hug so when they fall back Yuri won't hit the ice with the back of its head. I thought this theory sounded very promising, because it shows some kind of thought behind it.
but they do like it cause it's gay.
eff-fume Let's just face it bruh, other than gay couple, being casual watcher and like skating, are there any reason to watch this? XD
cestalia an angry blonde russian kid kicking the shit out of others while wearing only cat themed clothes? That would be a yes for me
eff-fume Let's be honest here. If Yuri was a girl, but literally everything else was the same, do you really think most people would have praised it as much as they did? I don't think that a character's sexual orientation should be the determining factor of whether something is just average or good, because that's not "normalizing" LGBT relationships at all.
Love your videos!! There are so many RUclipsrs I admire so so much who produce super fun videos (Jack Septic Eye, Clleen Ballinger, The Try Guys, Good Mythical Morning, etc.) but it's not often that you come across one that makes really amazing quality work. And as someone who's studied animation, I love how you bring attention to what an incredible art form it is!
They wouldn't have been able to make it if it were full-on gay. Japan's got serious homophobia issues. They had to get it past censors, past focus groups, past executives. Even then the production values were kept low because of skepticism that it could ever be successful or accepted. The problem is that you can sell fangirls and gay men on subtext, but the prevailing thought is that you can't sell the public on actual text, so subtext is as far as it's allowed to go for fear of losing a huge market share.
Outside of Japan, we're annoyed enough with this to call it "baiting". But compared to most anime - even some shounen-ai and yaoi - Yuri on Ice is pretty damn blatant. It's a step forward by their standards. So, yeah. The sequel will probably do better now that the studio knows what it can get away with. If there's a sequel.
(I'm probably not the first/only person to say this, am I. Ah well.)
I love Yuri On Ice!! But I get why a lot of people don't like it as much as me. Yuri On Ice is really personal to me, as a former dancer and pianist. As someone who failed a lot of times. And as someone who also has some anxiety and self confident problem during my years fighting my way in dance and music world. This show really hits me hard. Maybe the romance is ambigious, but for me the important thing is how they grow by being with each other. Thats good enough for me.
I'd have preferred little bit less ambiguity, but overall I didn't mind it that much since the romance clearly was there. It's hard to make show with two guys falling in love without making it shonen-ai or yaoi. I think creators wanted YOI taken as sport anime first and more seriously than just fanservice anime for yaoi-fans.
Yuri on Ice was my first anime, 10/10 would recommend
hey wolf I love your stuff so much. have you ever watched parasite the maxim? I think it deserves a video. it's very good !
I have! great series, I may do a vid on it some time
I absolutely love how much beauty and passion you put into these videos. I never have a doubt that you absolutely adore anime and see it as something more than just cartoons. your videos are on a whole different level. Thank you SO much for sharing your opinion with us!
I think the big reason that the ambiguity is even there must be the fact that this show was aired on Japanese TV, its a pretty reserved culture and I don't think the studio wanted to risk the criticism of showing a gay couple obviously kissing on-screen.
That yuzuru hanyu clip! You have great taste.😉
THIS SHOW WAS THE REASON I TOOK RUSSIAN FOR 2 YEARS IN HIGHSCHOOL!!!!
She directed this op? 😭😭😭 wow. This is one of the best I've seen and the song choice was really amazing.
You make me want to watch Yuri on ice now!
The subtext is ... Necessary in a way. Do I wish it was more open about Yuri and Viktor's relationship? Yes. But in a lot of places, media with homosexual characters are really rare and the ones that do exist are just homosexual films. It's about them being gay and nothing else. In that sense I'm glad to see that this anime focuses on other things like the figure skating. I want to see more films in different genres that just happen to have LGBT characters and this is a good first step.
"it shouldn't be labeled as yaoi"
"yaoi is fetishising"
theres is so much wrong information, true fetishization is to fetishise real gay couple as if they're an anime/cartoon, presenting certain dynamics in fiction is not to be taken so seriously unless the audience is a bunch of kids who believe everything they see on tv
SECOND and MOST IMPORTANT there is nothing wrong with yaoi or bl (they mean the SAME thing) it's only westrens who have demonized these words, please educate yourself, gay people in japan are happy with any representation they can receive, by saying it's not "yaoi" it's erasure of representation for them
for you it's to "respect" the show, but for lgbt japan you'll just sound homophobic and weird
since yaoi/bl and any other naming means the same thing
also for people who are throwing a fit about how there was basically "queerbiating" if you're watching media from a different country, be aware of the country's laws and social life, it's not a good thing that gay couples still have to be kind of covered, but you have to understand where the product comes from and hope that in the near future we will receive very bold representation, instead of being rude. also keep in mind that even in anime products that have main straight couple, like your name, a silent voice and many other shows (like snk/bnha), there's no kiss scenes at all and no explicit announcement of love or a relationship, yet you assume it's canon.. so put the lgbt stuff on the same standards please.
Thing is that I always found it weird when people say yaoi is fetishising because I mean, no shit. And so is every other form of porn. No one bats an eye at all the horrible objectification of women in hentai so why is yaoi somehow more problematic?
@@alias4795 bruh fr? Like porn is porn- porn is inherently fetisization. Why is no one whining about straight porn? Why is it always western (also often straight) people whining about "fetisization" of gay men in yaoi?
It's only a bad thing if you see gay people as a fantasy to masturbate and don't acknowledge their existence in real life and believe they exist for your pleasure which was initially done to lesbians.
Gay porn is not inherently a bad thing.
I hate that the relationship is so... fuzzy. I know there are shippers out there who need as little as two characters looking at each other in order to be convinced that they are a secret couple, but for me it’s not enough. If I were Yuri, I’d be really confused as to how my relationship with Victor is standing and there are clear communication issues as far as I remember (it’s been a while). Things like holding hands in public, meeting each other’s parents and introducing your partner as a partner, going on actual dates (not just kill time together), telling your partner that you love them on an occasional basis, cuddling together in a relaxed and not an agitated way and kissing more than once are some of the things I think you should do (not necessarily all of them but at least some) BEFORE consider getting engaged. Plus their engagement is so half assed. I know Victor wanted Yuri to win gold and to hold the marriage off until then seems like a good motivator, but there are two issues with that idea: 1. Victor now wants to compete again meaning that all the efforts he puts into his performance are efforts against their marriage and 2. What if Yuri never wins gold? Will they never marry? Will they split up because “this isn’t working out if not both of us have won gold”?