Pinned comment, with links about where to find me! (I'm not putting my whole bibliography in one comment, you can read the description if you need that.) Contribute to the Small Dragon Tea Fund on Ko-Fi : ko-fi.com/snappydragon Follow me on IG for more stitchy business : @missSnappyDragon For business inquiries, send an e-mail to : SnappyDragonStitches at Gmail dot Com I do not take personal costume/sewing or research commissions.
I just found your channel and the whole thing is such a vibe. I have been video binging and I'm loving the facts, nerdiness, costumery, messaging, and history!
My grandmother (born in 1900) suggested the use of a hat pin for defense. I pointed out that I didn't have a hat. She then said "carry a knife." She was the best.
You should try decorative hairpins/hair sticks. The Asian kind. Those ones are long enough and sharp enough to double as a weapon. It’s why I prefer them over hairbands
Bruh I hate hearing that argument from men because its ignorant for obvious reasons but like, dudes REALLY thought women enjoyed being forced into submissive roles and not having the rights to speak up? Bitch just because you couldn't hear our voice doesn't mean we weren't speaking are you DUMB
I've never gotten this. Once my grandpa came home drunk and tried to hit my Mawmaw. She hit him with a skillet and then just proceeded to make dinner over his unconscious body. My dad asked if he was alive and she just said "I don't care if he is or not." And I have a friend who's grandma failed to murder a lady. She dumped her off the side of a cliff and assumed she'd die, but she crawled out somehow. Some women are just hardest people to ever live, and that'll never change. Any man who thinks otherwise just hasn't had the pleasure of pushing the wrong buttons yet.
Me and the girls wearing poke bonnets, hatpins, whaleboned sleeves and hoop skirts to reinforce social distancing while remaining historically accurate and safe from mashers:
My mum's concern about my late night travels has severely diminished since I pointed out I'm armed to the teeth with knitting needles, sharp pointy scissors, and long needles and hat pins. She also knows I can't get arrested for carrying a weapon with the intent to cause harm like I would with a knife. So I'm safe from harassment and the police 👌👌👌. No one can tell me crafty hobbies aren't empowering!
I read so many newspaper quotes from Edwardian women saying they specifically carried large hatpins so they could walk home at night. Horrible that it's necessary, but you're part of a long and glorious tradition!
I find that as a disabled woman in a wheelchair, that hat pins are indeed empowering! I know I’m already more vulnerable than the average woman, and I don’t have the physical ability to fight off an attacker. But a good, sharp hat pin? It definitely makes me feel safer!
@@SnappyDragon back in the 80s, as a devoted tom baker doctor who fan, i used to carry a duncan imperial yo-yo when i had late nights at the computer lab in college. i'd skip back to my dorm room, singing random songs and flinging that zippy little weight in an orbit around me that would have given a black eye to anyone coming within 3' of me.
My flatmates always joke that we are safe from vampires because I have 2cm wide wooden knitting needles that could be used as a very effective stake, no sharpening needed :D
When my daughter was in high school she preferred padded bras. "But you don't need them, you are at least a C cup!" I said. She told me it was armour, the boys couldn't cop a feel through the padding. That was so sad.
@@katherinemorelle7115 research it well because if done wrong it can cause other problems. A good old fashioned lingerie shop with an old lady fitter is your best bet to find a "minimizer" style bra. Also the less elastic in the bra, the less jiggle. Some very firm sports bras might also help though the are expensive.
@@lenabreijer1311 minimizer style bras cause more creepy stares rather than less of them though, especially because the lack of padding causes the breasts to actually jiggle more (at least that's what my experience is as someone with a DDD cup size, I can't wear sports bras because they don't exist in my proportions but thicker bras hold the breasts in much more compared to minimizers). I understand there are some concerns with binders but minimizer bras only hold a different shape, they don't stop the jiggling
@@miglek9613 it depends on the effect wanted. There are larger cup sports bras out there but you need to hunt and pay . I am also a very large cup size (I haven't been a DDD for decades) and had one that was closer in effect to a bulletproof vest but nothing moved.
There are some school officials that should watch this. Perhaps instead of dress codes banning shorts and tank tops they should allow the girls to wear hats and hat pins. 😏
My school doesn’t even have a dress code It’s just “As long as you wear the uniform or a similar one with no logo of any other school and It doesn’t flash anyone I don’t care” this rule applies to everyone
@@Sarawarawara- I've worked in a school with exactly the opposite solution. Every outer garment must have a school logo on (which the school embroiders for free if a student cannot find something in the uniform shop that suits them). Most of the students end up wearing a school hoodie and slacks but shirts, skirts and blazers are all pretty common and the prominence of the logo ensures that everyone wears one of the school colours (blue, red, green and white).
Sounds like a good idea. I would accept a tricorn or cylinder on my partner too. Though that means I cannot wear a bonnet or there would be complications. I'll settle for a coronet then.
Aside from being far too old now to be catcalled, I'm as bald as a bald thing, so, I doubt that I'd have to endure it again. My favourite way of handling it back in the day was to act as if they'd proposed marriage and start talking about the life we'd make and all the babies he was going to give me. I have never seen men run that fast, outside of the Olympics that is!
That reminds me of how one of my mom's friends reacted to a flasher when she was younger. She stared at his crotch and said: "Oh you poor man..." then walked off.
sorry to tell you, but, age doesn't really have anything to do with it. I've heard of cases where a 80 y.o. woman was raped by a 20 something man. I hope this won't happen to you or anyone for that matter, but yeah. I hope I didn't ruin you day
Fascinating how some men keep talking about and publishing lists of all the women’s fashions they dislike/find unattractive and yet humanity hasn’t died out yet despite the fact that we keep ignoring their complaints.
Here in Brazil wearing the school uniform is mandatory literally in every school. And when I was in high school I felt very safe in my uniform, because that meant I had less chances of getting harassed, since to men on the street it definetly meant I was a minor. But there was one day that I was harassed while wearing my school uniform by the same man who had harassed me the day before while I was not wearing my uniform. I felt so awful because even wearing clothes that definetly signified I was a young student didn't stop that man, it changed how I see the world to this day
The first time my daughter was harassed on the street by an adult man (so, not counting the harassment she was already receiving at school by boys her own age) she was 10. In a primary school uniform. Primary schools only go to year 6 here, and the uniforms are very different to high school uniforms. He knew damn well exactly how old she was- which is to say, not even a teenager. I was also regularly harassed while in school uniforms (and also catcalled for the first time at the age of 10), so it’s never seemed liked armour to me.
I'm from a small town in Rio and the first time I recall being catcalled by an older man was when I was 11 at the bus stop. I always covered myself since a very young age because I knew that could happen, but of course it didn't stop him because it's not about clothes. My city is absolute trash, literally EVERY time I go out it's certain that some man is gonna catcall me or stare creepily. To make it worse, my school uniforms are transparent and it's feasible to see the bra through it. I'm really glad I can stay at home all the time now. I guess I like not being catcalled better than going out. But just to be clear it's not a "good side" of corona, because there's no such thing.
In my country there are literal songs by adult men talking about how they want a schoolgirl, its a fetish. Uniforms and age never stopped them just made them more attracted to us. First catcalled when I was 12
I feel you I got harassed when I was 14 but I looked younger cause I was wearing a fluffy dress and I’m really small and I told him I would call the cops but I really thought he was gonna do something to me
I got harassed by some random adult man while I was walking back home from school (with my backpack still on) through an alleyway when I was 14. He was in a car driving away and literally turned around when he saw me, exited the car and ran after me to flirt with me. I was terrified for my life, thinking I was gonna be kidnapped or something. I was clearly still a minor, with my school backpack on. Some people are just disgusting and will do anything
I've been fortunate enough not to be cat called (possibly because I'm frequently mistaken for a 12 year old.) But I did have a similar incident a couple years ago at college, I ate dinner with a male friend of mine in the dining hall, and when I was leaving a dude from my floor came over to me to say hi, and that he wasn't sure if I was on date with my friend and that that was why he hadn't said hi to me when he saw me there. (I guess he was afraid I might've thought he was deliberately ignoring me or something?) So I told him, "No, I was just hanging out with Josh, he's a friend of mine from anime club." And at that exact moment, this TOTALLY RANDOM GUY walking by that neither of us knew just leered at me and said "-with benefits!" My initial response was going to be, "Do you want to die?" but I felt that was a bit much, so I changed it to "Do you want to be hit in the face with a wad of wet wipes?" And when he opened his mouth to respond I threw the wad of wet wipes I had in my pocket at him. Unfortunately, his mouth wasn't quite large enough to accommodate them, so they bounced off his face, but he looked incredibly bewildered that I did in fact just remove a large wad of wet wipes in my pocket to throw at him. Never underestimate how many wet wipes a germophobe has with them at any given time...
I'm guessing that was a V3 reference, tho who the hell does that? Like who just walks up in a conversation and butts in with a 'joke' calling out someone's sex life and when you don't even know them?
I have long hair and the advantage of that is that I can use a Chinese hair stick with flowers or gems in the end. Looks nice in a bun and works as a weapon.
My friend wears steel knitting needles in her hair and has (sadly) had to use them to defend herself from a group of young men on a subway once. Good thing she had them!
For all my aspiring historical costumers: I use a metal barbecue skewer (with the loopy end nicely decorated) as a hat pin, and it works very well... for keeping my hat on, of course.
@@chaotic-goodartistry3903 If you have the means you can have a hatpin made for you. I saw one years ago that was actually designed to resemble a sword.
As a HEMA and SCA heavy weapons fighter, I find that wearing full armor and carrying a sword DOES work to keep annoying men the hell away from me! And if it doesn't....well, I DO have a sword... EDIT; this also works when carrying axes, spears, polearms, maces, and most other weapons! Out of the lot, a nice 6ft+ long spear lets you keep annoying men away and doubles as an excellent judge of and enforcer of proper social distancing.
Nice that it works for you! Unfortunately, I have been challenged to impromptu fights a few times. And I have seen my girlfriend being told that "such a small girl cannot handle such a big sword". Which she obviously can.
you know that winters here in parts of canada can be cold, being dressed in parkas doent stop men, bundled from the top of your head with a shapeless knit hat a massive scarf and a coat to your knees and sorrels up almost as far makes no difference to attacks on women. IT IS NEVER WHAT IS WORN.
Right? My first catcall was when I was 13 and bundled up so much you couldn't even presume my gender (-30°C or so that day). But the kids backpack especially should've made them think a little before yelling obscenities out of the truck windows.
word. i was in the baggiest of sweat pants and hoodie i owned...and yet still some men leaned out the side of minivan and was like "heeeeyyyy mama" like I'm walking to the supermarket to get some cheese...step the fuck off...
@@TehMomo_ I hate drive-by catcalling. It startles me the most. I enjoyed the compliments I got from the homeless people I saw on my way to work. Some days, not all of the time, they'd call out that they loved my outfit or that my coat or boots looked really nice on me. I appreciated those compliments because they were about my choice in style rather than creepy comments on my body, which is also something I have little control over the features of. Those guys in that area were the most courteous group of people I have ever received (real) compliments from.
In college one of my friends, a devote Muslim woman, did her study abroad in Egypt. Here in the US, her hijab and modest clothes had always kept her functionally invisible to men, but in Egypt that was not the case. She came back from that semester extremely disillusioned and stopped wearing hijab saying that she felt like there was no point to veiling since it didn't matter whether she was modest or not; she still got catcalled. Other modest dressing friends at the time said they can always tell which men were gay and which were not because the straight men still checked them out.
I very much recognise this. As a somewhat modestly dressed Scandinavian hijabi in London (still western clothes, but long sleeves, etc), I get very little attention from men. The occasional islamophobic slur, but not sexual harassment. However, when going to Pakistan to visit my in-laws I wear a full length black dress, black scarf and niqab to cover my face while outdoors - it’s the only way for me to be left alone and guarantee that my husband won’t get in an argument with someone regarding my “honour” not being respected. Lol
I'm sad to hear that she had to make this bad experience. :( It's just as if a woman's clothing has nothing to do with anything and it's the harrasser's fault when somebody gets harrassed.
@@johannageisel5390 Keep in mind this was in 2005 and times have changed. I remember her telling me, "What's the point?" She dresses as modestly as she ever did, she just doesn't veil anymore. If you look at scripture, the whole reason for covering up is to prevent men from having lustful thoughts, but why make this effort if it doesn't work?
@@saraa3418 Yes. I remember this scene in Marjane Satrapi's comic "Persepolis", in which she is running (to get to class in time, I think) and is stopped by male moral enforcers or however those people were called. And they said to her she shouldn't run because it would make her backside move in an "enticing" way and her answer is: "Then don't stare at my ass!" That was after the Islamic Revolution in Iran and she wore a long black coat and a hijab. So, a very concealing dress. And the men STILL found something to leer at and then blame it on her.
Think about the women in Taliban-controlled Afghanistan, who weren't/aren't safe even in a BURQA - a literal tent with a bit of netting to look out through. The only way they can be safe in public is with a male family member.
The hat pin reminds me of a 'self-defense technique' my muslim hijab wearing teachers taught me when I lived in Egypt. Whenever a man got too close for comfort or followed them, they'd take a pin out of their hijab and stab the assailant with it. For those who don't know, hijabis use things like bobby pins, sewing pins, and regular pins to style and/or keep the fabric in place.
Good to know. I have been thinking about using some sort of head covering, but wanted to be careful not to step on any toes, culturally, so I haven't done it yet. I will make sure I have a nice sharp object as part of my head covering.
When I was still young enough to be visible, most of my harrassment was from guys telling me how ugly I am. I realized that male commentary isn't about looks or attraction- it's about entitlement. Some men take it as a personal affront if someone doesn't look the way they prefer, because the entire world exists for their personal gratification. Other guys usually say nothing when they see a man getting off on making women and girls uncomfortable, so creeps continue deriving a sense of power from bothering others.
They also harass men or boys they consider "weaker" than themselves. Hurting and denigrating others to feel powerful is the default setting of a deeply frightened person. Yet we're supposed to assume they're all fit to rule over us? Boys, please!
Yeah and it cracks me up when they say "you know, men (don't) like it when [...]" like they are mercifully offering valuable advice to the poor woman who tries to be attractive for men but doesn't know how, so they helped her.
The majority of men in nearly every society are wired to crave power and control. They tell themselves that women do everything they do for men's validation and attention, or at least they should. When they see an "attractive" woman, she exists for their pleasure. When they see an "unattractive" woman, she either needs to change for them or deserves to be ridiculed. It's so messed up. And even if it's not blatant, that kind of entitled mindset is often prevalent.
This comment is perfect. That is exactly it. They comment on your appearance because they really expect you to conduct yourself in a way that is pleasurable to them. They REALLY think the purpose of your existence is to look attractive for them. There are men who still think like this today. INNNNNSAANNNEEEE where the fuck do they even get the IDEA
I was first catcalled when I was 11, and in my local towns school uniform (Black trousers, and a t-shirt and jumper that was my schools colour and with the school logo on it), so I'm amazed that people genuinely think catcalling is to do with what your wearing, and is related to them finding you attractive. It's about intimidating innocent people, that's it, unless all the adult men who catcalled me when I was a minor and wearing school uniforms genuinely wanted to date a child, which just makes catcallers even worse if true 🤮
In my school the cross country BOY’S team got catcalled in the street. A passing car yelled at them to take off their shirts. It’s surprising it happened to boys first of all, but it’s even more surprising because as part of the girl’s cross country team, we ran on the streets with only our bras on and never got harassed. It’s not you, it’s them.
@@koolaid1364 it's not that surprising to me because I know a gay man who was harassed by an older woman. I know some women can be just as creepy as men.
I've been cat-called in everything from shorts and a bikini top to the baggiest of sweatpants... it really has nothing to do with dress and everything to do with (male) entitlement...
When I was much younger, had long dark hair and happy with my figure, I would be walking to or from work in my bank uniform and men would just walk into me in the crowded street. I got to carrying an umbrella, but that didn't work because I couldn't bring the umbrella up fast enough to point it at them. In the end, I would quickly raise my bent elbow straight out in front of me at 90 degrees and they'd walk into my elbow. Interestingly, that seemed to help stop much of the harassment. Around this time, if I was standing in a queue, blokes would often be right behind me in my personal space. So I'd put my elbow on my hip and swing around. If it hit them, they were standing too close to me. That made them back off. I don't think most men have a clue what women put up with in this regard. Thank you so much for sharing this with us. 🥰
A backpack helps too! I used to keep mine on constantly when I was in school in crowded hallways. Crammed hoodies in there to bulk it up and give myself a little more space from people brushing up against me.
My go to tactic when grocery shopping is to always get a shopping cart. Even if I buy very little groceries, I still get a cart, and place the cart behind me. That also at least enforces some of the social distancing in the lines.
I am 21 and got catcalled by a boomer a few months or so ago. He started a conversation while I didn't want to talk to him, especially since he was a Covidiot. I evaded everything as best as I could politely, until he started commenting my body. I said: "I don't want to continue this conversation!" He had the audacity to ask why. My answer was: "because I said so!" I don't remember, if I knew beforehand how ironic it is to say that to a boomer, since they always say it to their kids, or if I realized the irony afterwards. But he backed off and left. Fuckwad.
Middle age and older brings relief: you become invisible to men. Not only do they stop catcalling or checking you out but also they walk into you on the street, often saying "I didn't see you."
So true! (But even then there are gerontophiles who have raped, and in some cases, also murdered elderly women in their 80s-90s. So you are not entirely safe from sexual predators at any age. But of course, those cases are thankfully extremely rare.)
that is so incredibly sad. the attention you actually want should be there your whole life, but just talking the unwanted one i'm glad that's over for you.
I used to deal with an incredible amount of harassment. I'm only 4'10" and had a disproportionately large chest (since i used to be thin)- No amount of clothes or trying not smile changed anything. I think they partly they harrass young women because they're more vulnerable. It's been a relief now that I'm in my 30s and much heavier. Reading your comment made me reflect on the dichotomy of harrassment turning to invisibility as we age. I hope it will be better for my daughter. ❤️ to you
Ugh I hate that men exist like that - with women as visible sexual objects or invisible bc they're 'unf*ckable' - I used to walk my blind friend home from our youth group, and we literally had a man NOT notice his wife taking the pram across the road to clear the pavement for us (my blind friend wearing sunglasses at 9pm at night + walking with the classic white cane) until he LITERALLY walked into us, stopped, looked at both of us (in his way) and said "Oh." Out loud before going around us?!?!? Like sir the entire street (pavement + road) is completely empty aside from us and u + ur wife, HOW do you even explain your behaviour? What kind of dude raised this man? Had he ever been out in public before? I was genuinely baffled, and my friend was confused as hell - his wife was across the road watching the interaction like 🤦♀️
I like to wear 1940-1950's style clothing, so calf length, full skirts, And it never made a difference! I still get catcalled a lot :/. The "it's the clothes" argument is just bs! unless the men ( I say men here, because I've only been catcalled by men) in my city really can't handle seeing my (with stockings covered) ankle.
Yup. I got full on sexually harassed (not just catcalled, the guy grabbed my waist and tried to kiss me after I told him I was married and not interested several times) while wearing a floorlength skirt and modest blouse.
Back before I transitioned to male, I tried out every type of femininity there is to offer in an effort to make do with my situation (back then I intended to take my secret to the grave). And let me tell you, the catcalling didn't differ, no matter what I wore. Actually, when wearing 40s-50s styles, neo-N*zi types looking for a tradwife made things uniquely uncomfortable.
This another reason to tell administration (school or work) that it is not clothing that you wear, that causes men to harrass women. All ages of women get assaulted. Men and boys need to be taught that they need to be controlled and to follow rules against harassing, be it girls or boys.
I've started to hiss aggressively at people who creep on me on public transport, it works wonders. My friends do it too now, and we even have a codewort for it, so if one of us gets approached, all of us will turn our heads with an unhinged glance in our eyes and hiss as sharply as we can. It's glorious.
Going to the movies as a teenager in the seventies, my grandmother would make me take her hatpin with me in my bag just in case. She was born in 1898 so grew up in the Edwardian big hat era. I never needed to use it though.
Yes! Exactly! It has NEVER been the clothing NOR the victims fault! It has always been and will always be the perpetrator's fault for making the choice to assault and harass another human being.
When I lived in Brazil I would always carry an umbrella. 🌂 If someone came towards me with a suspicious face, I’d lift my umbrella as I was carrying a weapon. And in 5th grade I had to bang my umbrella on a boy’s head because he was bullying me every day and I got tired of it. It worked pretty well. - Although I do not recommend this act of violence, that boy really got on my nerves. And I didn’t hit him too hard anyway. It was just a warning 😆.
I have had older male coworkers complain to me about the #metoo stuff. I think every woman who ever had a job can tell you about a situation where she felt uncomfortable because someone in a power position was "just being friendly".
I never thought of hatpins being controversial, though my first thought was it would make a good weapon like stilleto heels. Thanks for emphasizing that its not the victim's fault. Sadly that kind of thought prevails. In church there is the argument about modesty to keep makes from temptation. My answer to that is to teach boys how to control themselves and be responsible for their own behavior. Creepy guys are going to be creepy no matter what.
They're certainly sharp, ...not likely to really stop someone determined but enough to err, get the point across. (It's probably a good idea to actually cover the point with like a pencil eraser or something cause if they aren't an everyday item for you it'd be easy to stick or scratch your hand if you're careless. :) (Also for that matter if they're antiques it'd be a bummer to lose one. :) )
Hi. regular churchgoer here. While the Bible does say that the clothes should be modest I don't think it specifies gender. So it just says that /everyone/ should dress modestly. Jesus also says something to his disciples (all men btw) that they should "pluck out their eye" if it "offends" them, aka if they can't look at a woman and not have ~thoughts~ about her. Just thought that was interesting.
@@ZoeVP01 It is the principal of what's good for the goose is good for the gander. That is something that most denominations and congregations miss. Thanks for bringing it up.
In my experience revealing clothes don't make any difference, I got bothered even followed more often when I wear baggy workout clothes that cover everything and no make up, than when I'm in an elegant sexy evening gown look, cause most creeps feel insecure if you look way too out of their league elegant and expensive
In 1995 I was catcalled at by a group of hooligans while walking back to work from home after lunch. I flipped them off. They chased me down. I got away running into the office using the door code. They rattled the doors and the secretary called security and the police. They were not caught, and the last two weeks of my job (heading back to college at the end of my sumner stint), the security guard picked me up and dropped me off from my home every morning and evening. It was not the first or last time this has happened. But was a stand-out example of what growing up in south Florida was for me.
When I was 15, me and my friends were walking to our friend's house, there were shops and fields filled with guys surrounding us, some guy catcalled us and then all of the guys there looked at us. Many of them then cheered and joined in. It made me feel really embarrassed/angry. That was the first time I got catcalled. Now, I get scared/anxious when I'm near a group of men or any man I don't know. The possibility of it happening again makes me feel an urgent need to avoid them.
@@AzamythAzura Well, I'm not sure what you think feminism is, but this video mentioned quite a few topics often discussed in feminism. Plus the creator seems to agree given she "loved" the comment.
Yessss I love this, I get people (usually older dudes) creeping on me when I wearing historical clothing. Fun highlights include some guy pulling over in his car and saying he liked my hat when I was with my mom, and a guy looking directly at me and taking off his shirt while making a sexually suggestive noise when I was at a nearby beach with my HIGH SCHOOL CLASS 🥰🥰🥰
I was a small child in the 1960s, and my grandmother, born in the 19th century, still wore hatpins. For quite some time, I was under the impression that she actually stuck them into her head, and was utterly baffled by her apparent resistance to pain.
Supernatural Granny! We all had them- how else could they walk 20 miles to school uphill in a snowstorm, learn the readin writin 'rithmatic. Walk the 20 miles back- barefoot. Then tend the family and the farm and animals and still have enough energy for the nonsense of barn dances on the holidays? Meet some neighbor boy at 14, sew up a truseau and get married at 16 and stay married for 85 years? They had powers i tell ya'!!!
I work when I can for a 1870's American site, and I was stared very creepily at by one of the uniformed park employees (who was a man in his late 30's, while I was 18 at the time). I was dressed very modestly, but in a natural form dress, so it was a little form fitting. I tried to ignore him, but I felt like he was always within my line of sight while I was at the visitor center. It really doesn't matter how modestly you dress, you'll always get creeps. He even started a conversation with another employee (older woman) about how pretty I looked, near enough that I could hear them (I just wanted to eat my dry catered sandwich in peace!). I'm still uncomfortable thinking about it. Since then I've got my own dress that I can put on at home, then I only have to check in at the center before moving directly to my post. I didn't see him at my last event before covid, and I hope he won't be there when they open again in Fall.
I never told anyone this but some guy tried kidnapping me at Starbucks when I was 16. I walked out, he pulled up beside me in his car and said, where are you going? I'll give you a ride! He kept doing that until someone honked behind him because he was blocking traffic and he drove off
Men through history being mad for the fact that everything don't revolve around them and is for their pleasure. Suddenly remembering that time in my teens when me and a friend were going out in the capital city by ourselves in the middle of the day, and her mother made sure we had "decent" clothing on us, so "nothing would happen"... Like the clothes had anything to do with it... (sigh)
I once got catcalled by a boomer. He tried starting a normal conversation, I already didn't like him because he was a Covidiot, and when he started commenting on my body, I said: "I don't want to continue talking!" He had the audacity to ask why. "BuT i SaId I'm NoT bEiNg CrEePy!" I said: "Because I said so!" this is when he left. Now, I don't remember if I said that with the intent ot stick it to the boomer, because boomers are always saying that to their kids, or if I just said it and ten saw the irony, but it certainly was ironic that I said it to the boomer.
I once brought santa claus hat to the uni, we were joking around with colleauges and I tucked all my hair under the hat. One dude then said "you know, you look better with hair down" ok but my point wasn't even to look good and I didn't ask???
I’ve used clothing as armor and I’ve used lack of clothing as armor. As a woman, I think it becomes second nature to weaponize herself and her clothing.
As far as I can remember, I never got catcalled. Then again, in my ghetto of a city there's a huge risk of either a family beatup or an on-the-spot fight if you do, so... It might also be the giant knitting needle that I use as a hairstick, or the fact that I have a reputation of sticking said needle into people's buttcheeks in fights. Who knows.
Ooo! Or like, a group of modern-day criminals whose day jobs revolve around older fashion and thrive in the historical fashion scene, but by night they rob in modified costumes (mainly just so that they can move around a little easier, not to disrespect the feminine fashions of the respective era)?
Okay there is a book series by Gail carriger you would quite like then. I don’t remember which is the first one out of etiquette and espionage or curtsies and conspiracies. It is an excellent series about a young woman going to finishing school. Both finishing as in learning all the airs and graces, and finishing as in assassination. It’s utterly charming. I’ve only read the first two as I need to pick up the other two.
Hey, you would be interested in the London all girl gangs called 'The forty Elephants'. Super interesting part of history that existed for a long time. They were a big gang of organised shoplifters who used the fashions of their times to their advantage.
This was such a delight! I have no big hats, but I desperately want a hatpin now. Thank you for the acknowledgement about “men’s” and “women’s” dress. English is frustratingly inadequate in its vocabulary around gender in history, so it’s nice to hear people addressing that!
I've got a couple antique ones I found a long time ago, ...helped keep my Jackie O floppy sunhats in place in the wind. (I wasn't really trying to be retro, just happen to be pretty sun-sensitive. :) )
As an enby person who has dealt with catcalling and loves fashion I ADORE how you described the concept of fashion and gender and how you'd use it in the video. It made me feel seen and included in the conversation, wonderfull video!
This was almost eighteen minutes of me sitting here cheering (silently, bc coworkers, but still). Biting snark and scholarly citations are my favorite combination. Bring back the hatpin, dang it - and the fact that autocorrect just tried to turn “hatpin” into “harpoon” gives me some VERY interesting ideas…
@@SnappyDragon ROTFLMAO! One Hatpin Shanty coming up! 🎶 *"When a man starts being grabby, Ladies it's time to get stabby! Sining Yo Ho pin the rogue down! If he won't leave you be, then use your hatpin to make him flee! Sining Yo Ho pin the rogue down! "* 🎶 Please forgive me if this is complete & utter garbage. It's 5am here in Australia & I've not had my first coffee yet. So I'm a bit of a zombie right now. ☕ 🧟♀️
I cannot tell you enough how much I adore this. I had a conversation like two years ago with a male friend and the topic turned to women’s equality. He eagerly jumped in about how wonderful it was that we were all finally equal and no longer had to worry about harassment or anything else. I was so flabbergasted, I could just barely piece together a rational response and eventually had to hand off the conversation to our mutual friend (also male) who was there with us, looking very uncomfortable (the mutual friend, incidentally, is someone I trust above most other people in the world and extremely aware of the difficulties women face from men. I once showed him a new tattoo I’d gotten on my forearm and he later apologized because he realized he’d touched my arm without asking for my consent first. I wasn’t in the least bothered by his touch, but I very much appreciated his awareness of the potential problem.). I do not know why this is so hard for men to understand, other than that they don’t want to because it makes them have to be responsible for their actions and have to change their behavior. I guess I answered my own question 😂
Yes, and they have to recognize that a significant percentage of men they personally know and consider friends are among the people doing this. All part of confronting their privilege. If I recall correctly, it's the same dynamic that POC have had issues with when trying to point out how they are treated by police and some members of the general public.
Louder for the people in the back! I started getting cat called at 8 years, so yea, not the clothes. I second? third? 25th? the call to bring hat pins back!
Omg, I started getting catcalled at the same age. It didn't help that I was already 5'5 ft & had 36C-sized breasts at the time (I was an early bloomer). I always feel that I was robbed of my childhood bc of that tbh
Thank you, most enjoyable! My grandmother (born 1915) taught me the power of umbrellas, and my mother (born 1935) taught me the power of elbows. It has never, ever, been about what we wear, but about men's sense of entitlement over our bodies.
Oh my gosh, I thought I was the only one who noticed that! Such a lude drawing for that time period. And there's the other problem with society - subtle yet obvious suggestive advertisements, caricatures, and other such things. I see no reason whatsoever for artists to put those suggestive items in their drawings/ads. I find it repulsive. But that's just my perspective.
@@Wisegirl6521 ooh also I saw someone suggest a scarf needle? Never heard of those but I’m going down an Etsy rabbit hole now. Also definitely would recommend the hair pin instead of keys since you can attack from a farther distance. Good luck!!! Ppl with fashion pins unite!
Ok but the centaur woman is amazing? I know the illustrator wasn't being nice, but imagine a fantasy universe where a centaur lady is wearing a costume that would normally be supported by a bustle. Oh the possibilities. The video is amazing btw, I love it.
There were no Centaur women- only males- hence them going crazy and chasing/kidnapping any woman they could capture. Which ties in in such a weird way to the article....
@@deborahhanna9126 I don't see why fantasy has to stick to this though. There were sometimes no male elves either, but it's just fun to play with the different cultures and gender roles in fantasy. It's an interesting piece of mythology tho! Thanks for sharing :)
No particular reason other than as a Sagittarius it always made me a little sad that i couldn't get a Centaur on a cake growing up. I guess it wasnt considered lighthearted enough for children's parties. But you can Wonder why they would choose such a symbol to represent a whole month of people born- like are no women to be born in December? Or so completely described as having masculine traits? That particular news article just seemed to be taking potshots at ladies from a perverse point of view by telling them they were a creature that was never even conceived by mythology. None of which has anything to so with fantasy. In fact if you write a novel i would prob be at rhe front of rhe line to buy it. I was just pointing out that there were layers of nuance to the story that modern audiences might not be aware of- but that the writer most certainly would have been.
Full skirts keeping your personal space sound like a dream. Too bad I would have knocked down everything in my way😅 Creeps will be creeps even when you're clothed from head to toe unfortunately. That part where you said that some men nowadays were afraid to even start a conversation and be considered a harasser - maybe they shouldn't in the first place, no?
When a boomer catcalled me, and I said I don't want to keep talking to him, he had tha audacity to be like "whyyyyyyyy?! I sAiD i'M nOt BeInG cReEpY!" , so I said "Because I said so!" the ironic thing is, he's a boomer, and these shitheads say it to their kids as an argument for everything.
The question of personal space is moot. Creeps know what they are doing when they invade it- they are deliberately doing it to intimidate you. A porcupine dress probably wouldn't give them the message.
@@deborahhanna9126 And part of deliberately pushing those boundaries is to see if you will push back or do something else that limits them. They know that if you don't defend one boundary, you are a likely target for them to get by another boundary without consequences. (Do not interpret this as her fault, it is the fault of the predators deliberately picking victims who have not learned how to defend boundaries or who have not even been taught that they can and should have boundaries.)
I actually really needed to watch this. I’ve been struggling with debilitating social anxiety because I fear catcalling and harassment so much in public. I always feel like..dirty when I think about the few incidents where I got harassed/stared at just for existing. It feels good to hear reassurance that it’s not my fault.
I totally relate to feeling dirty and really unsafe after ppl harass you in public. Something that helped me a little was to notice how I felt, and then get mad (in my head) at the harassers for doing what the did without any regard to my feelings. If they really wanted to tell me I looked nice/ask me out etc, they would care about how I feel. That made it a lot easier to stop feeling like it was my fault for being upset, and instead their fault for upsetting me. Good luck! I hope you can keep remembering that it’s not your fault when people want to make you feel bad, that’s on them. In the same vein, this comic helped me realize the difference between a compliment from a stranger and harassment: pin.it/2X3iaFL
I loved this! Slightly adjacent topic, but I wonder about experiencing the joy of sitting on the bus near someone who’s manspreading and meet him with a huge pannier ✨💆♀️
i often dress in a very dark gothic style with big boots and chains and spikes and men give me weird glares because of it but i like to think they’re intimidated by me and know not to mess with me. however you do get the odd few that begin commenting on it and saying i must be into some “hardcore stuff in bed” which just disgusts me
Hol up, THAT is a hat pin!? I read somewhere that ladies back in the day would jab handsy men with a hat pin, but I thought they were about the size of a hair pin, not a full on metal needle the size of a chopstick! 😳 Now I want like 10
HAT PINS!!!! I read all about hat line and how women would stab guys that harassed them with them and how men were so scared of not being able to freely harass women that they had fancy articles put out about the danger of hat pins and women just laughed.
As someone who has experienced sexual harrasment/cat calling since the age of 10 (im 20 now), what I wouldn't give to own a hoop skirt and foot long hat pin.
Hello V, for English class this week, we each discussed an invention/form of expression that has its own message that does require words to communicate it to people. I chose fashion! I brought up the example of the Victorian hoopskirt, and how it encouraged women to take up space in society (and the men hated it)! I am absolutely delighted to find this video today on my recommended list, and it was so fun and educational to watch! I just subscribed! Thank you for your amazing content V!
As a teen in the late 90's, early 2000's, weighing 150 lbs at just over 5 ft, wearing baggy t-shirts, and jeans or khaki's, I always felt the need to drown out honking, catcalling from people in vehicles while walking to work. Not petite, not scantily dressed, just happened to be female. I still listen to headphones while walking, but at least the catcalling has stopped. Among the perks of getting older, I guess!
"It is a mode VERY DISAGREEABLE to the men in general." I started laughing hysterically, so thank you, this vid was good for my soul. Also, I wish my reply to him and his buddies could drift back through the sands of time to reach them, "...We do not fucking care that you don't like it..."
Reminds me of when two of my guy "friends" insisted that even though men will catcall regardless of what a woman wears, the women is still partially at fault if she wears anything revealing. As if the guy isnt a huge jerk either way 🤨
about the adultery part, when I was in Ukraine with my mom, some company was trying to advertise for something, I don't remember what for, but the women wore dresses with hoop skirts, and my mom said: "Yeah, if a woman cheated, a lover could easily hide under a hoop skirt." Idk if she was joking or serious.
My husband has never cat called in his life. He was a dancer who won competitions and got bullied as a kid for being "gay". So he probably feels this video 'almost' as hard as women do. I love a man who is secure in his sexuality. :) The ones who cat call just make it easier to mark them off the list. :)
I appreciate how thorough your explanation about how what we wear has never had anything to do with others harassing the wearer. I've often heard stories and been victim of catcalls and harassment and then the "JOKES" of, "Well, what were they wearing?" that followed. This has always been the excuse for the harassment and it's relieving to have proof and an explanation on the fact that this excuse is FALSE. Thank you.
I was 13 when a 40 year old man, who knew my age, decided that he was interested in me and tried to convince me to sleep with him. I never saw him before, he saw me at a restaurant. I have been too scared to wear my wigs in public ever since thinking it was my fault but this makes me feel a little better.
I should send this video to every girl at my town that thinks it's ok to grab my body amd cat call me because "men deserve it". There's no excuse to violate people and thank you for telling people this amd not just saying only men can do it.
From a man's perspective-- my sister is one of my best friends and she has had so many horrible encounters with men who couldn't keep their hands off of her. When I hear stories like that, I get enraged. And yet, I also wonder what happened to the Victorian code of gentlemanly honor. Yes, guys were creeps all the time but back then, as a man, it was your gentlemanly duty to kick the creep's ass home. I see a lot of guys nowadays not growing up and just passively letting catcalling happen. Women should absolutely take whatever defensive measures they can, but to all the good guys out there, man the f*** up. If you see a creep being gross, stand up for the lady you're with. Girls still like guys to have a backbone. Let's not lose that.
I appreciate your asking men to speak out when they see a man catcalling a woman. Unfortunately this may not work well in practice. The only times I've been catcalled were when I was walking alone (busy street but not a lot of pedestrians, broad daylight) and the catcallers were in a passing truck. In one case the driver turned around and passed me again, at which point I bolted into a side street and ran, making a couple of turns, until I was in front of an acquaintance's house.
I could not hit the Thumbs Up button fast enough!! This is the best video that speaks to harassment. I'm a very plus size woman and have been harassed and bullied since elementary school. From classmates to random harassers on the street, I've heard it all. I've even gotten harassed by my own brother. (There's a reason his ex-wife and 7 kids don't want anything to do with him.) Thank you for doing this video.
My sumpathies to you- one of my brothers was creepy, too. Fortunately, we didn't live in the same household. I thought he'd grown out of it but nope, when we reestablished contact decades later, he STILL was gross and pervy. I don't bother talking to him any more.
I‘ve recently had a really annoying discussion with someone saying it was our/the victims/essentially the woman’s responsibility to be cautious and avoid getting harassed by not drinking, dressing correctly, not going out alone and stuff. While I was trying to point out in various ways that harassment happens regardless what we wear (whether it’s fancy, streetwear, PJs or floorlength and hijab) it was still difficult to convey how ridiculous it is to think dressing could influence this to the better, rather than holding the aggressors accountable. I wished I had known this video back then. It really show how ridiculous the clothing debate is. And what kind of people are keeping this fire going.
The sad thing it is true that men harass and catcall when you're alone. I've never heard of a woman being cat called while she was out with a man, but that doesn't change the fact that catcalling should stop with men in the long run. Because what is the alternative? Having women stay inside unless they have a man that can escort them outside? That doesn't sound like a good world to live in.
Only once have I had to call out, my women co-workers, for catcalling a young man. They had the same excuses as a man to a young girl would, i.e. "It's just a bit of fun" etc. It clearly wasn't and the young man was clearly upset, and trying to appear not phased, with this unacceptable behaviour.
Well I can only hope that something positive came of it. In that he remembered how he felt when it was happening to him. & he didn't do it to any women in the future. I've often thought if men were on the receiving end of the same behaviour that they dish out. Would they find it to be the same kind of 'harmless fun'. That they thought it was when they were doing it?
@@itwasagoodideaatthetime7980 I don't agree, this not the sort of man who would ever cat call. Not all men cat call and not all women think it's not appropriate. The only good thing is maybe some of the women that cat called, thought about what they did, and stopped doing it.
@@mariebray9831 Ah fair enough. From the tone of your text I interpreted that the young man in question was a cat caller. & that he was getting a dose of his own medicine. I'm glad to hear this wasn't the case. But sorry that he had to endure that treatment as he isn't a man that engages in that kind of treatment towards women.
It's really sad though that women are forced to learn how to use everyday objects as weapons because people won't teach their sons that being a sexual predator is bad
My mother thinks i'm goth because i draw my eyeliner pretty long and like platform shoes, but for some reason i rarely get catcalled when i combo those (compared to when i wear regular clothes and minimal or no makeup), it makes me feel good and keep the men away ^^
The level of research in this was amazing and I really appreciated the very determined support of people who are not men and who generally aren't read as men by society. And I LOVED the threatening hat at the end there. It was so good.
This made me feel so much better, I’d been blaming myself for years that it was my fault I had been catcalled once when I was 12 (by a group of grown men ew) because I was wearing shorts and boots which I’d chalked up to being “too raunchy” This made me see that’s not the case ❤️
Honestly, as a teenager, I was upset that I WASN'T harassed. I felt like I was being ignored, like my existence was so horrible that none of the boys at my school wanted to even just be mean. But I'm 24 now, and I'm endlessly amused that everyone at school knew that I was genderless before I did and never thought to say anything. Special shout out to my bud Tyler who was horrified to learn that I did, indeed, wear women's stockings sometimes.
I’m a woman so the gender aspect doesn’t apply to me, but I’ve felt “left out” or like there was “something wrong with me” when other middle school girls were talking about getting catcalled and I hadn’t been. It’s a messed up standard.
@@mspennywhistle you just reminded me of an article I read on a feminist website a few years ago, about what men want from women: sexy enough that men think they have a chance with you, but demure enough that you aren't labeled a sl*t. And grown men say it to young girls, too; and grown women perpetuate it. If you aren't attractive enough that strange boys/men will yell at you about your tits/ass/legs/makeup, then you're not "feminine" or a "real woman". Which is disgusting and twisted and makes me hate Men in general sometimes. Bring back hatpins, there needs to be more stabbin'.
AaAAAAAAaaa! Same! Im largely ignored by men. Which is usually fantastic! But part of me wonders "whats wrong" with me for /not/ getting that sort of attention? Since it's such a sadly common occurrence.
I've been catcalled while wearing an attire that didn't show off a single bit of skin except my face, and the clothes were loose, not form fitting. What the hell did they think was attractive, I don't have a clue.
I was even cat called while wearing what you described as well as a mask because of the pandemic. (Some) men are crazy, thats my conclusion, i don't see any other explanation
How infuriating that they banned the long hatpins instead of trying to do something about the creeps. I remember that post well! Gilded Age Garbage fire is a friend I chat with regularly, and I've just sent her a link to this video!
Even in this age was was sexually harassed by a new employee and my assistant manager who was a man took it seriously, however, my Manager who was a woman treated me like I was a trouble maker looking for attention and making it all up. I left there and started working full-time at another job
So much this! The amount of times I've felt like bringing back the hoop skirt because of men trying to shoulder check me walking down the street, during a pandemic no less.
My Great Aunt may she rest in piece, once told the story that she was climbing onto a bus with my Grandmother (who was younger, a child, she at the time was a young married lady around 19), and a man touched her butt while she was climbing up. She turned to him pulled off her heal and bashed him in the head when he tried to yell at her blood running down his face the bus driver told him that's what he desierved. icon
Oof, absolutely got reminded of living in a shared house and having my (normally caring, socially sensitive) housemates admit they thought I was wearing sports bra while we were moving furniture in an attempt to attract their attention. I mean, typing it out, it doesn't sound implausible, but I adopted more and more conservative clothing over the following years because of how uncomfortable it made me. I was still overcoming sexual assault trauma at the time.100% agreed with the points being made, had to stop watching because of the feels. :P P.S. thanks for listening to my off-topic rant! I guess I needed to share that story.
My shoulders are wide so i wear a sports bra all the time. Well i switched the favorite last week for a different one and my sister accused me of not having one on at all. (It wasnt quite as thickly padded so the pointer sisters must have made a debut.) Imagine having my own sister trying to shame me (when i know waaay too much about her behavior!) And pretending not to understand why when i give her the stink eye. She has always had more success with the gentlemen but still has to be jealous of my chesticles and eye color. I am not a person who could leave the house braless or sans any other undergarment. And it would be bizarre of me to try to compete with her on the social arena. Bur we look at things from point of view of polar oppposite. The difference is that even if you had turned the situation back on them by speculating aloud about wether they might be wearing tightie whities or jockstraps or codpieces to impress you- they still would have taken it as flirting. It is unfortunately a one-way street.
So good! Oh, and I have about 15-20 of my great grandmothers hat pins! They were saved! .... a lot of them are bent, oh the tales they could tell.....!!!
I love this so much! I was out shopping once with my best friend in a shoe store (she was looking for heels for her bridesmaid dress). I was kinda just wandering around waiting for her to finish and I noticed this guy kept staring at her and sometimes made comments and would try and reach out to touch her. By instinct I picked up a heel from the stand and literally said “Keep your hands off of my friend otherwise I will hit you with this”. I think he got the message when his face went red and he ran out of the store 😂
Pinned comment, with links about where to find me! (I'm not putting my whole bibliography in one comment, you can read the description if you need that.)
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Pinned comment I see what you did there...XD
That was a great message! THANK-YOU!! ;0)
I just found your channel and the whole thing is such a vibe. I have been video binging and I'm loving the facts, nerdiness, costumery, messaging, and history!
I love your content
Say it louder for the people in the back: It's not the victim's fault!
!
@@naly202 ?
@@naly202 never
@@naly202 Nope. That's what makes them a *victim*
@@naly202 what?
My grandmother (born in 1900) suggested the use of a hat pin for defense. I pointed out that I didn't have a hat. She then said "carry a knife." She was the best.
You should try decorative hairpins/hair sticks. The Asian kind. Those ones are long enough and sharp enough to double as a weapon. It’s why I prefer them over hairbands
The fashion was actually senorita guns.
@@catt4777 I used that once. I had a metal hair pin and made it a little sharper with a sand paper.
Also. You can carve knives out of keys and mix it your regular keys. Walk with that in your hands.
VERY effective.
You too must have enjoyed each other very much.
Some guy: Man I wish it was the good old days when women knew their place.
Women from the good old days: I'm gonna stab you with my hat
I’m certain a man was killed by one once because he went in a second time and it went between a set of ribs
I'm gonna use this as a threat
Bruh I hate hearing that argument from men because its ignorant for obvious reasons but like, dudes REALLY thought women enjoyed being forced into submissive roles and not having the rights to speak up? Bitch just because you couldn't hear our voice doesn't mean we weren't speaking are you DUMB
YESSS
I've never gotten this. Once my grandpa came home drunk and tried to hit my Mawmaw. She hit him with a skillet and then just proceeded to make dinner over his unconscious body. My dad asked if he was alive and she just said "I don't care if he is or not."
And I have a friend who's grandma failed to murder a lady. She dumped her off the side of a cliff and assumed she'd die, but she crawled out somehow.
Some women are just hardest people to ever live, and that'll never change. Any man who thinks otherwise just hasn't had the pleasure of pushing the wrong buttons yet.
Me and the girls wearing poke bonnets, hatpins, whaleboned sleeves and hoop skirts to reinforce social distancing while remaining historically accurate and safe from mashers:
Your cool ☺️
Damn it... I really wanna do that :(
Awesome!
I just think we should bring back the term masher.
Time to find a hoop skirt. Forget Covid, I still don't want you randomly touching me.
your guy friend struggling so hard to act like a creep was great to watch haha
It took literal months of looking to find someone who was willing to try! Christopher did great, bless him.
It's honestly great to see that he's so bad at being a creep.
I kind of feel for him. He must have felt so awful and scummy while doing it even though it was just acting. What a trooper.
+
you could see him cringing inside like he has never talked to a woman like that 😀
My mum's concern about my late night travels has severely diminished since I pointed out I'm armed to the teeth with knitting needles, sharp pointy scissors, and long needles and hat pins. She also knows I can't get arrested for carrying a weapon with the intent to cause harm like I would with a knife. So I'm safe from harassment and the police 👌👌👌. No one can tell me crafty hobbies aren't empowering!
I read so many newspaper quotes from Edwardian women saying they specifically carried large hatpins so they could walk home at night. Horrible that it's necessary, but you're part of a long and glorious tradition!
I find that as a disabled woman in a wheelchair, that hat pins are indeed empowering! I know I’m already more vulnerable than the average woman, and I don’t have the physical ability to fight off an attacker.
But a good, sharp hat pin? It definitely makes me feel safer!
@@SnappyDragon back in the 80s, as a devoted tom baker doctor who fan, i used to carry a duncan imperial yo-yo when i had late nights at the computer lab in college. i'd skip back to my dorm room, singing random songs and flinging that zippy little weight in an orbit around me that would have given a black eye to anyone coming within 3' of me.
My flatmates always joke that we are safe from vampires because I have 2cm wide wooden knitting needles that could be used as a very effective stake, no sharpening needed :D
AMEN!! You rock those needles girl!
When my daughter was in high school she preferred padded bras. "But you don't need them, you are at least a C cup!" I said. She told me it was armour, the boys couldn't cop a feel through the padding. That was so sad.
And my 13yo has been asking about wearing a binder, in lieu of not being allowed to have a reduction.
People suck.
@@katherinemorelle7115 research it well because if done wrong it can cause other problems.
A good old fashioned lingerie shop with an old lady fitter is your best bet to find a "minimizer" style bra. Also the less elastic in the bra, the less jiggle. Some very firm sports bras might also help though the are expensive.
@@lenabreijer1311 minimizer style bras cause more creepy stares rather than less of them though, especially because the lack of padding causes the breasts to actually jiggle more (at least that's what my experience is as someone with a DDD cup size, I can't wear sports bras because they don't exist in my proportions but thicker bras hold the breasts in much more compared to minimizers). I understand there are some concerns with binders but minimizer bras only hold a different shape, they don't stop the jiggling
@@miglek9613 it depends on the effect wanted. There are larger cup sports bras out there but you need to hunt and pay . I am also a very large cup size (I haven't been a DDD for decades) and had one that was closer in effect to a bulletproof vest but nothing moved.
Sweetie they can’t cop a feel with a broken arm.
There are some school officials that should watch this. Perhaps instead of dress codes banning shorts and tank tops they should allow the girls to wear hats and hat pins. 😏
THIS
And have the same rules for everyone regardless of gender and enforce it on the boys as much as on girls.
I am now advocating for the return of hats and hatpins in schools if boys being distracted by revealing clothing is the problem.
My school doesn’t even have a dress code It’s just
“As long as you wear the uniform or a similar one with no logo of any other school and It doesn’t flash anyone I don’t care” this rule applies to everyone
@@Sarawarawara- I've worked in a school with exactly the opposite solution. Every outer garment must have a school logo on (which the school embroiders for free if a student cannot find something in the uniform shop that suits them). Most of the students end up wearing a school hoodie and slacks but shirts, skirts and blazers are all pretty common and the prominence of the logo ensures that everyone wears one of the school colours (blue, red, green and white).
Being kissed under a bonnet by someone I find attractive is one of my goals. Could be my bonnet could be their bonnet, there must be bonnets involved
Sounds like a good idea.
I would accept a tricorn or cylinder on my partner too. Though that means I cannot wear a bonnet or there would be complications. I'll settle for a coronet then.
queer romance on the decline as your bonnets just keep clashing. An illustration I would pay to see
Oh my god yes! The slightly concealed kisses seem so romantic! Same with "fan in front of the faces"
me, kissing another lesbian under our gay little bonnets:
@@sppokyghost *dons bonnet* m'lady
Aside from being far too old now to be catcalled, I'm as bald as a bald thing, so, I doubt that I'd have to endure it again. My favourite way of handling it back in the day was to act as if they'd proposed marriage and start talking about the life we'd make and all the babies he was going to give me. I have never seen men run that fast, outside of the Olympics that is!
That's so epic. 🤣😂🤣
That reminds me of how one of my mom's friends reacted to a flasher when she was younger. She stared at his crotch and said: "Oh you poor man..." then walked off.
@@Amy_the_Lizard A friend was once flashed, and she gave it a good look and said, "Water it, honey, maybe it'll grow."
Can i borrow that idea?
sorry to tell you, but, age doesn't really have anything to do with it. I've heard of cases where a 80 y.o. woman was raped by a 20 something man. I hope this won't happen to you or anyone for that matter, but yeah. I hope I didn't ruin you day
Fascinating how some men keep talking about and publishing lists of all the women’s fashions they dislike/find unattractive and yet humanity hasn’t died out yet despite the fact that we keep ignoring their complaints.
I love womans fashion so much, I wear a skirt and purse, I mean kilt and sporran.
@@timmycook6708 and it is healthier than tight jeans and trousers!
@@jaxtelford807 Heck yeah! I'm sewing another kilt by hand, it takes me over 40 hours and it just makes the end product so much more satisfying.
@@timmycook6708 I make them for guys in my LARP'ing community, who then go live in them.
@@jaxtelford807 Nice, I basically live in my kilts but if I could only have one it would have to be a great kilt
Here in Brazil wearing the school uniform is mandatory literally in every school. And when I was in high school I felt very safe in my uniform, because that meant I had less chances of getting harassed, since to men on the street it definetly meant I was a minor. But there was one day that I was harassed while wearing my school uniform by the same man who had harassed me the day before while I was not wearing my uniform. I felt so awful because even wearing clothes that definetly signified I was a young student didn't stop that man, it changed how I see the world to this day
The first time my daughter was harassed on the street by an adult man (so, not counting the harassment she was already receiving at school by boys her own age) she was 10. In a primary school uniform. Primary schools only go to year 6 here, and the uniforms are very different to high school uniforms. He knew damn well exactly how old she was- which is to say, not even a teenager.
I was also regularly harassed while in school uniforms (and also catcalled for the first time at the age of 10), so it’s never seemed liked armour to me.
I'm from a small town in Rio and the first time I recall being catcalled by an older man was when I was 11 at the bus stop. I always covered myself since a very young age because I knew that could happen, but of course it didn't stop him because it's not about clothes. My city is absolute trash, literally EVERY time I go out it's certain that some man is gonna catcall me or stare creepily. To make it worse, my school uniforms are transparent and it's feasible to see the bra through it. I'm really glad I can stay at home all the time now. I guess I like not being catcalled better than going out. But just to be clear it's not a "good side" of corona, because there's no such thing.
In my country there are literal songs by adult men talking about how they want a schoolgirl, its a fetish. Uniforms and age never stopped them just made them more attracted to us.
First catcalled when I was 12
I feel you I got harassed when I was 14 but I looked younger cause I was wearing a fluffy dress and I’m really small and I told him I would call the cops but I really thought he was gonna do something to me
I got harassed by some random adult man while I was walking back home from school (with my backpack still on) through an alleyway when I was 14. He was in a car driving away and literally turned around when he saw me, exited the car and ran after me to flirt with me. I was terrified for my life, thinking I was gonna be kidnapped or something. I was clearly still a minor, with my school backpack on. Some people are just disgusting and will do anything
I've been fortunate enough not to be cat called (possibly because I'm frequently mistaken for a 12 year old.) But I did have a similar incident a couple years ago at college, I ate dinner with a male friend of mine in the dining hall, and when I was leaving a dude from my floor came over to me to say hi, and that he wasn't sure if I was on date with my friend and that that was why he hadn't said hi to me when he saw me there. (I guess he was afraid I might've thought he was deliberately ignoring me or something?) So I told him, "No, I was just hanging out with Josh, he's a friend of mine from anime club." And at that exact moment, this TOTALLY RANDOM GUY walking by that neither of us knew just leered at me and said "-with benefits!" My initial response was going to be, "Do you want to die?" but I felt that was a bit much, so I changed it to "Do you want to be hit in the face with a wad of wet wipes?" And when he opened his mouth to respond I threw the wad of wet wipes I had in my pocket at him. Unfortunately, his mouth wasn't quite large enough to accommodate them, so they bounced off his face, but he looked incredibly bewildered that I did in fact just remove a large wad of wet wipes in my pocket to throw at him. Never underestimate how many wet wipes a germophobe has with them at any given time...
Hey, I am kind of a germophobe too, maybe I should consider that wet wipe thing too.
I'm guessing that was a V3 reference, tho who the hell does that? Like who just walks up in a conversation and butts in with a 'joke' calling out someone's sex life and when you don't even know them?
love the follow through, 10/10. glad you didn't choose the die option though XD
you say because you're frequently mistaken for a twelve year old, but i know in my experience i was catcalled more often when i was younger.
Is that what you called "cat-called"
I have long hair and the advantage of that is that I can use a Chinese hair stick with flowers or gems in the end. Looks nice in a bun and works as a weapon.
Ooh like in Killing Eve!
Me too i wear them daily if needed i can stab someone eyes out
My friend wears steel knitting needles in her hair and has (sadly) had to use them to defend herself from a group of young men on a subway once. Good thing she had them!
This just convinced me to figure out how to do this myself! The many benefits 😍
Any time my mother has gone on vacation, her hair sticks always disappeared. :(
For all my aspiring historical costumers: I use a metal barbecue skewer (with the loopy end nicely decorated) as a hat pin, and it works very well... for keeping my hat on, of course.
I approve this suggestion!
. . . for keeping hats on.
That’s very smart actually, it’s very hard to find long hatpins nowadays
@@chaotic-goodartistry3903 If you have the means you can have a hatpin made for you. I saw one years ago that was actually designed to resemble a sword.
@@talonrue802 ooh that’s a cool idea
As a HEMA and SCA heavy weapons fighter, I find that wearing full armor and carrying a sword DOES work to keep annoying men the hell away from me! And if it doesn't....well, I DO have a sword...
EDIT; this also works when carrying axes, spears, polearms, maces, and most other weapons! Out of the lot, a nice 6ft+ long spear lets you keep annoying men away and doubles as an excellent judge of and enforcer of proper social distancing.
certified iconic comment
Nice that it works for you! Unfortunately, I have been challenged to impromptu fights a few times. And I have seen my girlfriend being told that "such a small girl cannot handle such a big sword". Which she obviously can.
Yep yep. Shame things and guns are how I deal with that shit.
A hammer and a determined look also is a winner
you know that winters here in parts of canada can be cold, being dressed in parkas doent stop men, bundled from the top of your head with a shapeless knit hat a massive scarf and a coat to your knees and sorrels up almost as far makes no difference to attacks on women. IT IS NEVER WHAT IS WORN.
Right? My first catcall was when I was 13 and bundled up so much you couldn't even presume my gender (-30°C or so that day). But the kids backpack especially should've made them think a little before yelling obscenities out of the truck windows.
@@idminister Individual behaviors aren't codified by genes
@@antonioscendrategattico2302 but they can be taught....i think that's what they are saying...
word. i was in the baggiest of sweat pants and hoodie i owned...and yet still some men leaned out the side of minivan and was like "heeeeyyyy mama"
like I'm walking to the supermarket to get some cheese...step the fuck off...
@@TehMomo_ I hate drive-by catcalling. It startles me the most.
I enjoyed the compliments I got from the homeless people I saw on my way to work. Some days, not all of the time, they'd call out that they loved my outfit or that my coat or boots looked really nice on me. I appreciated those compliments because they were about my choice in style rather than creepy comments on my body, which is also something I have little control over the features of. Those guys in that area were the most courteous group of people I have ever received (real) compliments from.
I DARE MY PARTNER TO USE THIS LINE ON ME.
Him: "Hey lady, whatchu got goin on under all that skirt?"
Me: "Cabbage farts."
Lmao
😂🤣😂
🤣🤣👏🤲👍 Bravo! Well Played My Friend, Well Played Indeed!
In college one of my friends, a devote Muslim woman, did her study abroad in Egypt. Here in the US, her hijab and modest clothes had always kept her functionally invisible to men, but in Egypt that was not the case. She came back from that semester extremely disillusioned and stopped wearing hijab saying that she felt like there was no point to veiling since it didn't matter whether she was modest or not; she still got catcalled. Other modest dressing friends at the time said they can always tell which men were gay and which were not because the straight men still checked them out.
I very much recognise this. As a somewhat modestly dressed Scandinavian hijabi in London (still western clothes, but long sleeves, etc), I get very little attention from men. The occasional islamophobic slur, but not sexual harassment. However, when going to Pakistan to visit my in-laws I wear a full length black dress, black scarf and niqab to cover my face while outdoors - it’s the only way for me to be left alone and guarantee that my husband won’t get in an argument with someone regarding my “honour” not being respected. Lol
I'm sad to hear that she had to make this bad experience. :(
It's just as if a woman's clothing has nothing to do with anything and it's the harrasser's fault when somebody gets harrassed.
@@johannageisel5390 Keep in mind this was in 2005 and times have changed. I remember her telling me, "What's the point?" She dresses as modestly as she ever did, she just doesn't veil anymore. If you look at scripture, the whole reason for covering up is to prevent men from having lustful thoughts, but why make this effort if it doesn't work?
@@saraa3418 Yes.
I remember this scene in Marjane Satrapi's comic "Persepolis", in which she is running (to get to class in time, I think) and is stopped by male moral enforcers or however those people were called.
And they said to her she shouldn't run because it would make her backside move in an "enticing" way and her answer is: "Then don't stare at my ass!"
That was after the Islamic Revolution in Iran and she wore a long black coat and a hijab. So, a very concealing dress. And the men STILL found something to leer at and then blame it on her.
Think about the women in Taliban-controlled Afghanistan, who weren't/aren't safe even in a BURQA - a literal tent with a bit of netting to look out through. The only way they can be safe in public is with a male family member.
The hat pin reminds me of a 'self-defense technique' my muslim hijab wearing teachers taught me when I lived in Egypt.
Whenever a man got too close for comfort or followed them, they'd take a pin out of their hijab and stab the assailant with it.
For those who don't know, hijabis use things like bobby pins, sewing pins, and regular pins to style and/or keep the fabric in place.
I’d always wondered about that
Until you get stoned to death because your hair fell out of place.
Good to know. I have been thinking about using some sort of head covering, but wanted to be careful not to step on any toes, culturally, so I haven't done it yet. I will make sure I have a nice sharp object as part of my head covering.
When I was still young enough to be visible, most of my harrassment was from guys telling me how ugly I am. I realized that male commentary isn't about looks or attraction- it's about entitlement. Some men take it as a personal affront if someone doesn't look the way they prefer, because the entire world exists for their personal gratification. Other guys usually say nothing when they see a man getting off on making women and girls uncomfortable, so creeps continue deriving a sense of power from bothering others.
They also harass men or boys they consider "weaker" than themselves. Hurting and denigrating others to feel powerful is the default setting of a deeply frightened person. Yet we're supposed to assume they're all fit to rule over us? Boys, please!
Yeah and it cracks me up when they say "you know, men (don't) like it when [...]" like they are mercifully offering valuable advice to the poor woman who tries to be attractive for men but doesn't know how, so they helped her.
The majority of men in nearly every society are wired to crave power and control. They tell themselves that women do everything they do for men's validation and attention, or at least they should. When they see an "attractive" woman, she exists for their pleasure. When they see an "unattractive" woman, she either needs to change for them or deserves to be ridiculed. It's so messed up. And even if it's not blatant, that kind of entitled mindset is often prevalent.
This comment is perfect. That is exactly it. They comment on your appearance because they really expect you to conduct yourself in a way that is pleasurable to them. They REALLY think the purpose of your existence is to look attractive for them. There are men who still think like this today. INNNNNSAANNNEEEE where the fuck do they even get the IDEA
Same here. :) I love your comment! So true about the gratification thing. I will use it in dicussions. :)
I was first catcalled when I was 11, and in my local towns school uniform (Black trousers, and a t-shirt and jumper that was my schools colour and with the school logo on it), so I'm amazed that people genuinely think catcalling is to do with what your wearing, and is related to them finding you attractive. It's about intimidating innocent people, that's it, unless all the adult men who catcalled me when I was a minor and wearing school uniforms genuinely wanted to date a child, which just makes catcallers even worse if true 🤮
Sadly there is a prevailing ‘idea’ about... minors and young people in the minds of far too many men.
In my school the cross country BOY’S team got catcalled in the street. A passing car yelled at them to take off their shirts. It’s surprising it happened to boys first of all, but it’s even more surprising because as part of the girl’s cross country team, we ran on the streets with only our bras on and never got harassed. It’s not you, it’s them.
@@koolaid1364 it's not that surprising to me because I know a gay man who was harassed by an older woman. I know some women can be just as creepy as men.
@@c.a.fontaine1074 oh definitely. Sexual assault has no gender.
I've been cat-called in everything from shorts and a bikini top to the baggiest of sweatpants...
it really has nothing to do with dress and everything to do with (male) entitlement...
When I was much younger, had long dark hair and happy with my figure, I would be walking to or from work in my bank uniform and men would just walk into me in the crowded street. I got to carrying an umbrella, but that didn't work because I couldn't bring the umbrella up fast enough to point it at them. In the end, I would quickly raise my bent elbow straight out in front of me at 90 degrees and they'd walk into my elbow. Interestingly, that seemed to help stop much of the harassment.
Around this time, if I was standing in a queue, blokes would often be right behind me in my personal space. So I'd put my elbow on my hip and swing around. If it hit them, they were standing too close to me. That made them back off.
I don't think most men have a clue what women put up with in this regard. Thank you so much for sharing this with us. 🥰
Is it possible that every man thinks he is the only person to communicate in this way?
A backpack helps too! I used to keep mine on constantly when I was in school in crowded hallways. Crammed hoodies in there to bulk it up and give myself a little more space from people brushing up against me.
My go to tactic when grocery shopping is to always get a shopping cart. Even if I buy very little groceries, I still get a cart, and place the cart behind me. That also at least enforces some of the social distancing in the lines.
I am 21 and got catcalled by a boomer a few months or so ago. He started a conversation while I didn't want to talk to him, especially since he was a Covidiot. I evaded everything as best as I could politely, until he started commenting my body. I said: "I don't want to continue this conversation!" He had the audacity to ask why. My answer was: "because I said so!" I don't remember, if I knew beforehand how ironic it is to say that to a boomer, since they always say it to their kids, or if I realized the irony afterwards. But he backed off and left. Fuckwad.
It's moment's like these that I'm grateful for being ugly in the male gaze
Middle age and older brings relief: you become invisible to men. Not only do they stop catcalling or checking you out but also they walk into you on the street, often saying "I didn't see you."
So true! (But even then there are gerontophiles who have raped, and in some cases, also murdered elderly women in their 80s-90s. So you are not entirely safe from sexual predators at any age. But of course, those cases are thankfully extremely rare.)
that is so incredibly sad. the attention you actually want should be there your whole life, but just talking the unwanted one i'm glad that's over for you.
I used to deal with an incredible amount of harassment. I'm only 4'10" and had a disproportionately large chest (since i used to be thin)- No amount of clothes or trying not smile changed anything. I think they partly they harrass young women because they're more vulnerable. It's been a relief now that I'm in my 30s and much heavier. Reading your comment made me reflect on the dichotomy of harrassment turning to invisibility as we age. I hope it will be better for my daughter. ❤️ to you
Ugh I hate that men exist like that - with women as visible sexual objects or invisible bc they're 'unf*ckable' - I used to walk my blind friend home from our youth group, and we literally had a man NOT notice his wife taking the pram across the road to clear the pavement for us (my blind friend wearing sunglasses at 9pm at night + walking with the classic white cane) until he LITERALLY walked into us, stopped, looked at both of us (in his way) and said "Oh." Out loud before going around us?!?!? Like sir the entire street (pavement + road) is completely empty aside from us and u + ur wife, HOW do you even explain your behaviour? What kind of dude raised this man? Had he ever been out in public before? I was genuinely baffled, and my friend was confused as hell - his wife was across the road watching the interaction like 🤦♀️
I like to wear 1940-1950's style clothing, so calf length, full skirts, And it never made a difference! I still get catcalled a lot :/. The "it's the clothes" argument is just bs! unless the men ( I say men here, because I've only been catcalled by men) in my city really can't handle seeing my (with stockings covered) ankle.
Yup. I got full on sexually harassed (not just catcalled, the guy grabbed my waist and tried to kiss me after I told him I was married and not interested several times) while wearing a floorlength skirt and modest blouse.
Back before I transitioned to male, I tried out every type of femininity there is to offer in an effort to make do with my situation (back then I intended to take my secret to the grave). And let me tell you, the catcalling didn't differ, no matter what I wore. Actually, when wearing 40s-50s styles, neo-N*zi types looking for a tradwife made things uniquely uncomfortable.
This another reason to tell administration (school or work) that it is not clothing that you wear, that causes men to harrass women. All ages of women get assaulted. Men and boys need to be taught that they need to be controlled and to follow rules against harassing, be it girls or boys.
There are times when I am incredibly sad that RUclips doesn’t offer a “love” option. This is definitely one of those times.
Use the favorite option. :)
I hate when random, strange men touch my arms. I should get whalebone stiffened sleeves...
I've started to hiss aggressively at people who creep on me on public transport, it works wonders. My friends do it too now, and we even have a codewort for it, so if one of us gets approached, all of us will turn our heads with an unhinged glance in our eyes and hiss as sharply as we can. It's glorious.
@@NB-zm2lx In case that link fails, here is a version of it jenna-marbles.fandom.com/wiki/How_To_Avoid_Talking_To_People_You_Don%27t_Want_To_Talk_To
@@LadyCoyKoi Swans have terrified me for years and now I know why. Thanks for those cool fun facts!
@@NB-zm2lx That sounds funny. I should try that.
@@NB-zm2lx this made me actually squeal with glee. Time to apply this when dudes get creepy in the club. Next girls night is Swan Guard training time
Going to the movies as a teenager in the seventies, my grandmother would make me take her hatpin with me in my bag just in case. She was born in 1898 so grew up in the Edwardian big hat era. I never needed to use it though.
Yes! Exactly! It has NEVER been the clothing NOR the victims fault! It has always been and will always be the perpetrator's fault for making the choice to assault and harass another human being.
When I lived in Brazil I would always carry an umbrella. 🌂 If someone came towards me with a suspicious face, I’d lift my umbrella as I was carrying a weapon. And in 5th grade I had to bang my umbrella on a boy’s head because he was bullying me every day and I got tired of it. It worked pretty well. - Although I do not recommend this act of violence, that boy really got on my nerves. And I didn’t hit him too hard anyway. It was just a warning 😆.
There are turn-of-the-century cartoons showing how to use umbrellas for self-defense too! 'Tis another time-honored tradition.
“I will get rid of all the mashers” I’d die for Miss Blaker
I have had older male coworkers complain to me about the #metoo stuff. I think every woman who ever had a job can tell you about a situation where she felt uncomfortable because someone in a power position was "just being friendly".
I never thought of hatpins being controversial, though my first thought was it would make a good weapon like stilleto heels. Thanks for emphasizing that its not the victim's fault. Sadly that kind of thought prevails.
In church there is the argument about modesty to keep makes from temptation. My answer to that is to teach boys how to control themselves and be responsible for their own behavior. Creepy guys are going to be creepy no matter what.
They're certainly sharp, ...not likely to really stop someone determined but enough to err, get the point across. (It's probably a good idea to actually cover the point with like a pencil eraser or something cause if they aren't an everyday item for you it'd be easy to stick or scratch your hand if you're careless. :) (Also for that matter if they're antiques it'd be a bummer to lose one. :) )
Hi. regular churchgoer here. While the Bible does say that the clothes should be modest I don't think it specifies gender. So it just says that /everyone/ should dress modestly. Jesus also says something to his disciples (all men btw) that they should "pluck out their eye" if it "offends" them, aka if they can't look at a woman and not have ~thoughts~ about her. Just thought that was interesting.
@@ZoeVP01 It is the principal of what's good for the goose is good for the gander. That is something that most denominations and congregations miss. Thanks for bringing it up.
@@ZoeVP01 Actually that book's full of worse than that if someone doesn't toe whatever they say the line is that decade.
In my experience revealing clothes don't make any difference, I got bothered even followed more often when I wear baggy workout clothes that cover everything and no make up, than when I'm in an elegant sexy evening gown look, cause most creeps feel insecure if you look way too out of their league elegant and expensive
In 1995 I was catcalled at by a group of hooligans while walking back to work from home after lunch. I flipped them off. They chased me down. I got away running into the office using the door code. They rattled the doors and the secretary called security and the police. They were not caught, and the last two weeks of my job (heading back to college at the end of my sumner stint), the security guard picked me up and dropped me off from my home every morning and evening.
It was not the first or last time this has happened. But was a stand-out example of what growing up in south Florida was for me.
When I was 15, me and my friends were walking to our friend's house, there were shops and fields filled with guys surrounding us, some guy catcalled us and then all of the guys there looked at us. Many of them then cheered and joined in.
It made me feel really embarrassed/angry. That was the first time I got catcalled.
Now, I get scared/anxious when I'm near a group of men or any man I don't know. The possibility of it happening again makes me feel an urgent need to avoid them.
I love EVERYTHING about this video. The detail, the research, the feminism! 👏👏👏
@@carolinafine8050 what?
I am not sure you know what feminism means truely.
As for the video, love it, I have always loves hoop skirt! History fashion is amazing.
@@AzamythAzura Well, I'm not sure what you think feminism is, but this video mentioned quite a few topics often discussed in feminism. Plus the creator seems to agree given she "loved" the comment.
Yessss I love this, I get people (usually older dudes) creeping on me when I wearing historical clothing. Fun highlights include some guy pulling over in his car and saying he liked my hat when I was with my mom, and a guy looking directly at me and taking off his shirt while making a sexually suggestive noise when I was at a nearby beach with my HIGH SCHOOL CLASS 🥰🥰🥰
stab em with a hat pin!
I don’t get it how the guy saying he liked your hat is harassment
So, there's all this talk about men needing guns in grocery stores to defend women. Yet, women didn't have a right to bear adequate hat pins? Got it.
Fuck giving men guns. I want guns.
I was a small child in the 1960s, and my grandmother, born in the 19th century, still wore hatpins. For quite some time, I was under the impression that she actually stuck them into her head, and was utterly baffled by her apparent resistance to pain.
Supernatural Granny! We all had them- how else could they walk 20 miles to school uphill in a snowstorm, learn the readin writin 'rithmatic. Walk the 20 miles back- barefoot. Then tend the family and the farm and animals and still have enough energy for the nonsense of barn dances on the holidays? Meet some neighbor boy at 14, sew up a truseau and get married at 16 and stay married for 85 years? They had powers i tell ya'!!!
Oh no! A woman controlling her space and staying comfortable?! How dare they!?
I work when I can for a 1870's American site, and I was stared very creepily at by one of the uniformed park employees (who was a man in his late 30's, while I was 18 at the time). I was dressed very modestly, but in a natural form dress, so it was a little form fitting. I tried to ignore him, but I felt like he was always within my line of sight while I was at the visitor center. It really doesn't matter how modestly you dress, you'll always get creeps. He even started a conversation with another employee (older woman) about how pretty I looked, near enough that I could hear them (I just wanted to eat my dry catered sandwich in peace!). I'm still uncomfortable thinking about it. Since then I've got my own dress that I can put on at home, then I only have to check in at the center before moving directly to my post. I didn't see him at my last event before covid, and I hope he won't be there when they open again in Fall.
I never told anyone this but some guy tried kidnapping me at Starbucks when I was 16. I walked out, he pulled up beside me in his car and said, where are you going? I'll give you a ride! He kept doing that until someone honked behind him because he was blocking traffic and he drove off
Aw, thanks for the heart :)
Men through history being mad for the fact that everything don't revolve around them and is for their pleasure.
Suddenly remembering that time in my teens when me and a friend were going out in the capital city by ourselves in the middle of the day, and her mother made sure we had "decent" clothing on us, so "nothing would happen"... Like the clothes had anything to do with it... (sigh)
I once got catcalled by a boomer. He tried starting a normal conversation, I already didn't like him because he was a Covidiot, and when he started commenting on my body, I said: "I don't want to continue talking!" He had the audacity to ask why. "BuT i SaId I'm NoT bEiNg CrEePy!" I said: "Because I said so!" this is when he left.
Now, I don't remember if I said that with the intent ot stick it to the boomer, because boomers are always saying that to their kids, or if I just said it and ten saw the irony, but it certainly was ironic that I said it to the boomer.
I once brought santa claus hat to the uni, we were joking around with colleauges and I tucked all my hair under the hat. One dude then said "you know, you look better with hair down" ok but my point wasn't even to look good and I didn't ask???
I’ve used clothing as armor and I’ve used lack of clothing as armor. As a woman, I think it becomes second nature to weaponize herself and her clothing.
I use body language and weapons. Works every time.
As far as I can remember, I never got catcalled. Then again, in my ghetto of a city there's a huge risk of either a family beatup or an on-the-spot fight if you do, so...
It might also be the giant knitting needle that I use as a hairstick, or the fact that I have a reputation of sticking said needle into people's buttcheeks in fights. Who knows.
I'm going to need a novel about an organized criminal network of Edwardian ladies robbing banks with their deadly fashion accessories.
Ooo! Or like, a group of modern-day criminals whose day jobs revolve around older fashion and thrive in the historical fashion scene, but by night they rob in modified costumes (mainly just so that they can move around a little easier, not to disrespect the feminine fashions of the respective era)?
Okay there is a book series by Gail carriger you would quite like then.
I don’t remember which is the first one out of etiquette and espionage or curtsies and conspiracies.
It is an excellent series about a young woman going to finishing school. Both finishing as in learning all the airs and graces, and finishing as in assassination.
It’s utterly charming. I’ve only read the first two as I need to pick up the other two.
Hey, you would be interested in the London all girl gangs called 'The forty Elephants'. Super interesting part of history that existed for a long time. They were a big gang of organised shoplifters who used the fashions of their times to their advantage.
@@watson483 I checked the first one out this morning! Thanks for the recommendation!
@@domtekos7761 I am wonderfully interested! Thank you for letting me know my fantasy is real!
This was such a delight! I have no big hats, but I desperately want a hatpin now. Thank you for the acknowledgement about “men’s” and “women’s” dress. English is frustratingly inadequate in its vocabulary around gender in history, so it’s nice to hear people addressing that!
I've got a couple antique ones I found a long time ago, ...helped keep my Jackie O floppy sunhats in place in the wind. (I wasn't really trying to be retro, just happen to be pretty sun-sensitive. :) )
As an enby person who has dealt with catcalling and loves fashion I ADORE how you described the concept of fashion and gender and how you'd use it in the video. It made me feel seen and included in the conversation, wonderfull video!
This was almost eighteen minutes of me sitting here cheering (silently, bc coworkers, but still). Biting snark and scholarly citations are my favorite combination.
Bring back the hatpin, dang it - and the fact that autocorrect just tried to turn “hatpin” into “harpoon” gives me some VERY interesting ideas…
Hatpin shanties? 😃
@@SnappyDragon ROTFLMAO! One Hatpin Shanty coming up!
🎶 *"When a man starts being grabby, Ladies it's time to get stabby! Sining Yo Ho pin the rogue down! If he won't leave you be, then use your hatpin to make him flee! Sining Yo Ho pin the rogue down! "* 🎶
Please forgive me if this is complete & utter garbage. It's 5am here in Australia & I've not had my first coffee yet. So I'm a bit of a zombie right now. ☕ 🧟♀️
@@itwasagoodideaatthetime7980 🤣💚🤣💚🤣
@@SnappyDragon Thank you I'm glad it made you laugh.
BTW - I had to edit it because I spotted a spelling error & I lost your like on it. Bugger!
@@itwasagoodideaatthetime7980 OMG, I love you! Now this only needs a melody!
I cannot tell you enough how much I adore this. I had a conversation like two years ago with a male friend and the topic turned to women’s equality. He eagerly jumped in about how wonderful it was that we were all finally equal and no longer had to worry about harassment or anything else. I was so flabbergasted, I could just barely piece together a rational response and eventually had to hand off the conversation to our mutual friend (also male) who was there with us, looking very uncomfortable (the mutual friend, incidentally, is someone I trust above most other people in the world and extremely aware of the difficulties women face from men. I once showed him a new tattoo I’d gotten on my forearm and he later apologized because he realized he’d touched my arm without asking for my consent first. I wasn’t in the least bothered by his touch, but I very much appreciated his awareness of the potential problem.). I do not know why this is so hard for men to understand, other than that they don’t want to because it makes them have to be responsible for their actions and have to change their behavior. I guess I answered my own question 😂
Yes, and they have to recognize that a significant percentage of men they personally know and consider friends are among the people doing this. All part of confronting their privilege.
If I recall correctly, it's the same dynamic that POC have had issues with when trying to point out how they are treated by police and some members of the general public.
Louder for the people in the back! I started getting cat called at 8 years, so yea, not the clothes. I second? third? 25th? the call to bring hat pins back!
Omg, I started getting catcalled at the same age. It didn't help that I was already 5'5 ft & had 36C-sized breasts at the time (I was an early bloomer). I always feel that I was robbed of my childhood bc of that tbh
Awesome! ‘This is my circle of space. And I am literally wearing clothes to MAKE YOU GET OUT OF MY SPACE’.
Thank you, most enjoyable!
My grandmother (born 1915) taught me the power of umbrellas, and my mother (born 1935) taught me the power of elbows. It has never, ever, been about what we wear, but about men's sense of entitlement over our bodies.
The first couple in the poke bonnet caricature is clearly having fun under that hat, as suggested by the silhouette of the man with the cane...
Oh my gosh, I thought I was the only one who noticed that! Such a lude drawing for that time period. And there's the other problem with society - subtle yet obvious suggestive advertisements, caricatures, and other such things. I see no reason whatsoever for artists to put those suggestive items in their drawings/ads. I find it repulsive. But that's just my perspective.
@@Greye13 I actually enjoy suggestive advertising, I love pushing boundaries. It should be encouraged.
I didn’t even notice that oh my god
After reading this and looking back, my eyes deceived me for a moment and I thought it was... well, you know haha.
Oooh I noticed that too😂😂😂😂
Yeah, stick them with the pointy end...
Bring back the hatpin! 👒📍
@@itwasagoodideaatthetime7980 agreed it would be so convenient to be able to grab a weapon from my head
@@Wisegirl6521 someone a few comments up suggested a pointy Chinese hairpin (if you have long enough hair). That would still be a head weapon?
@@bigasspockets cool no more keys for me hello long distance needle
@@Wisegirl6521 ooh also I saw someone suggest a scarf needle? Never heard of those but I’m going down an Etsy rabbit hole now. Also definitely would recommend the hair pin instead of keys since you can attack from a farther distance. Good luck!!! Ppl with fashion pins unite!
Ok but the centaur woman is amazing? I know the illustrator wasn't being nice, but imagine a fantasy universe where a centaur lady is wearing a costume that would normally be supported by a bustle. Oh the possibilities.
The video is amazing btw, I love it.
There were no Centaur women- only males- hence them going crazy and chasing/kidnapping any woman they could capture. Which ties in in such a weird way to the article....
@@deborahhanna9126 I don't see why fantasy has to stick to this though. There were sometimes no male elves either, but it's just fun to play with the different cultures and gender roles in fantasy.
It's an interesting piece of mythology tho! Thanks for sharing :)
No particular reason other than as a Sagittarius it always made me a little sad that i couldn't get a Centaur on a cake growing up. I guess it wasnt considered lighthearted enough for children's parties. But you can Wonder why they would choose such a symbol to represent a whole month of people born- like are no women to be born in December? Or so completely described as having masculine traits? That particular news article just seemed to be taking potshots at ladies from a perverse point of view by telling them they were a creature that was never even conceived by mythology. None of which has anything to so with fantasy. In fact if you write a novel i would prob be at rhe front of rhe line to buy it. I was just pointing out that there were layers of nuance to the story that modern audiences might not be aware of- but that the writer most certainly would have been.
There are pins for scarfs that look like hat pins... I SAY WE MAKE THEM FASHIONABLE AND USE THEM WHEN NEEDED
Full skirts keeping your personal space sound like a dream. Too bad I would have knocked down everything in my way😅 Creeps will be creeps even when you're clothed from head to toe unfortunately. That part where you said that some men nowadays were afraid to even start a conversation and be considered a harasser - maybe they shouldn't in the first place, no?
When a boomer catcalled me, and I said I don't want to keep talking to him, he had tha audacity to be like "whyyyyyyyy?! I sAiD i'M nOt BeInG cReEpY!" , so I said "Because I said so!"
the ironic thing is, he's a boomer, and these shitheads say it to their kids as an argument for everything.
The question of personal space is moot. Creeps know what they are doing when they invade it- they are deliberately doing it to intimidate you. A porcupine dress probably wouldn't give them the message.
There’s a reason all the knickknacks in Victorian homes was kept _above_ waist level.
@@deborahhanna9126 And part of deliberately pushing those boundaries is to see if you will push back or do something else that limits them. They know that if you don't defend one boundary, you are a likely target for them to get by another boundary without consequences. (Do not interpret this as her fault, it is the fault of the predators deliberately picking victims who have not learned how to defend boundaries or who have not even been taught that they can and should have boundaries.)
I actually really needed to watch this. I’ve been struggling with debilitating social anxiety because I fear catcalling and harassment so much in public. I always feel like..dirty when I think about the few incidents where I got harassed/stared at just for existing. It feels good to hear reassurance that it’s not my fault.
I totally relate to feeling dirty and really unsafe after ppl harass you in public. Something that helped me a little was to notice how I felt, and then get mad (in my head) at the harassers for doing what the did without any regard to my feelings. If they really wanted to tell me I looked nice/ask me out etc, they would care about how I feel. That made it a lot easier to stop feeling like it was my fault for being upset, and instead their fault for upsetting me. Good luck! I hope you can keep remembering that it’s not your fault when people want to make you feel bad, that’s on them.
In the same vein, this comic helped me realize the difference between a compliment from a stranger and harassment:
pin.it/2X3iaFL
I loved this!
Slightly adjacent topic, but I wonder about experiencing the joy of sitting on the bus near someone who’s manspreading and meet him with a huge pannier ✨💆♀️
i need this. *stat.*
seriously though pls film this and put it on IG and show me
@@SnappyDragon as soon as covid restrictions are no longer needed and people don’t have sit two seat apart! 💪🏻
ROTFLMAO! Oh I'd pay to see that happen! 🤣
manspreading??
@@cultistivator809 A person (generally a man) sitting with their knees wide apart.
i often dress in a very dark gothic style with big boots and chains and spikes and men give me weird glares because of it but i like to think they’re intimidated by me and know not to mess with me. however you do get the odd few that begin commenting on it and saying i must be into some “hardcore stuff in bed” which just disgusts me
Hol up, THAT is a hat pin!? I read somewhere that ladies back in the day would jab handsy men with a hat pin, but I thought they were about the size of a hair pin, not a full on metal needle the size of a chopstick! 😳
Now I want like 10
HAT PINS!!!! I read all about hat line and how women would stab guys that harassed them with them and how men were so scared of not being able to freely harass women that they had fancy articles put out about the danger of hat pins and women just laughed.
As someone who has experienced sexual harrasment/cat calling since the age of 10 (im 20 now), what I wouldn't give to own a hoop skirt and foot long hat pin.
Yes! The problem is totally a lack of respect on the part of the person doing the harassing. This was fun...thanks for making it
Hello V, for English class this week, we each discussed an invention/form of expression that has its own message that does require words to communicate it to people. I chose fashion! I brought up the example of the Victorian hoopskirt, and how it encouraged women to take up space in society (and the men hated it)! I am absolutely delighted to find this video today on my recommended list, and it was so fun and educational to watch! I just subscribed! Thank you for your amazing content V!
As a teen in the late 90's, early 2000's, weighing 150 lbs at just over 5 ft, wearing baggy t-shirts, and jeans or khaki's, I always felt the need to drown out honking, catcalling from people in vehicles while walking to work. Not petite, not scantily dressed, just happened to be female. I still listen to headphones while walking, but at least the catcalling has stopped. Among the perks of getting older, I guess!
"It is a mode VERY DISAGREEABLE to the men in general." I started laughing hysterically, so thank you, this vid was good for my soul.
Also, I wish my reply to him and his buddies could drift back through the sands of time to reach them, "...We do not fucking care that you don't like it..."
In fact, we are delighted that they do not approve- off they fuck!
Reminds me of when two of my guy "friends" insisted that even though men will catcall regardless of what a woman wears, the women is still partially at fault if she wears anything revealing. As if the guy isnt a huge jerk either way 🤨
about the adultery part, when I was in Ukraine with my mom, some company was trying to advertise for something, I don't remember what for, but the women wore dresses with hoop skirts, and my mom said: "Yeah, if a woman cheated, a lover could easily hide under a hoop skirt."
Idk if she was joking or serious.
My husband has never cat called in his life. He was a dancer who won competitions and got bullied as a kid for being "gay". So he probably feels this video 'almost' as hard as women do. I love a man who is secure in his sexuality. :) The ones who cat call just make it easier to mark them off the list. :)
💯. Like all those "alphas" doing videos. We all know who to avoid now.
I appreciate how thorough your explanation about how what we wear has never had anything to do with others harassing the wearer.
I've often heard stories and been victim of catcalls and harassment and then the "JOKES" of, "Well, what were they wearing?" that followed. This has always been the excuse for the harassment and it's relieving to have proof and an explanation on the fact that this excuse is FALSE. Thank you.
Me at all seven reasons that she listed about how men didn’t like hoop skirts: “yes. Yes. YES!!!”
I was 13 when a 40 year old man, who knew my age, decided that he was interested in me and tried to convince me to sleep with him. I never saw him before, he saw me at a restaurant. I have been too scared to wear my wigs in public ever since thinking it was my fault but this makes me feel a little better.
I should send this video to every girl at my town that thinks it's ok to grab my body amd cat call me because "men deserve it". There's no excuse to violate people and thank you for telling people this amd not just saying only men can do it.
And*
From a man's perspective-- my sister is one of my best friends and she has had so many horrible encounters with men who couldn't keep their hands off of her. When I hear stories like that, I get enraged. And yet, I also wonder what happened to the Victorian code of gentlemanly honor. Yes, guys were creeps all the time but back then, as a man, it was your gentlemanly duty to kick the creep's ass home. I see a lot of guys nowadays not growing up and just passively letting catcalling happen. Women should absolutely take whatever defensive measures they can, but to all the good guys out there, man the f*** up. If you see a creep being gross, stand up for the lady you're with. Girls still like guys to have a backbone. Let's not lose that.
I appreciate your asking men to speak out when they see a man catcalling a woman. Unfortunately this may not work well in practice. The only times I've been catcalled were when I was walking alone (busy street but not a lot of pedestrians, broad daylight) and the catcallers were in a passing truck. In one case the driver turned around and passed me again, at which point I bolted into a side street and ran, making a couple of turns, until I was in front of an acquaintance's house.
I could not hit the Thumbs Up button fast enough!! This is the best video that speaks to harassment. I'm a very plus size woman and have been harassed and bullied since elementary school. From classmates to random harassers on the street, I've heard it all. I've even gotten harassed by my own brother. (There's a reason his ex-wife and 7 kids don't want anything to do with him.) Thank you for doing this video.
My sumpathies to you- one of my brothers was creepy, too. Fortunately, we didn't live in the same household. I thought he'd grown out of it but nope, when we reestablished contact decades later, he STILL was gross and pervy. I don't bother talking to him any more.
I‘ve recently had a really annoying discussion with someone saying it was our/the victims/essentially the woman’s responsibility to be cautious and avoid getting harassed by not drinking, dressing correctly, not going out alone and stuff. While I was trying to point out in various ways that harassment happens regardless what we wear (whether it’s fancy, streetwear, PJs or floorlength and hijab) it was still difficult to convey how ridiculous it is to think dressing could influence this to the better, rather than holding the aggressors accountable. I wished I had known this video back then. It really show how ridiculous the clothing debate is. And what kind of people are keeping this fire going.
The sad thing it is true that men harass and catcall when you're alone. I've never heard of a woman being cat called while she was out with a man, but that doesn't change the fact that catcalling should stop with men in the long run. Because what is the alternative? Having women stay inside unless they have a man that can escort them outside? That doesn't sound like a good world to live in.
Only once have I had to call out, my women co-workers, for catcalling a young man. They had the same excuses as a man to a young girl would, i.e. "It's just a bit of fun" etc. It clearly wasn't and the young man was clearly upset, and trying to appear not phased, with this unacceptable behaviour.
Yeah, that's not cool.
Well I can only hope that something positive came of it. In that he remembered how he felt when it was happening to him. & he didn't do it to any women in the future.
I've often thought if men were on the receiving end of the same behaviour that they dish out. Would they find it to be the same kind of 'harmless fun'. That they thought it was when they were doing it?
@@itwasagoodideaatthetime7980 I don't agree, this not the sort of man who would ever cat call. Not all men cat call and not all women think it's not appropriate. The only good thing is maybe some of the women that cat called, thought about what they did, and stopped doing it.
@@mariebray9831 Ah fair enough. From the tone of your text I interpreted that the young man in question was a cat caller. & that he was getting a dose of his own medicine. I'm glad to hear this wasn't the case. But sorry that he had to endure that treatment as he isn't a man that engages in that kind of treatment towards women.
It's really sad though that women are forced to learn how to use everyday objects as weapons because people won't teach their sons that being a sexual predator is bad
I love the exact phrase you use to describe who tends to be targeted for catcalling! It works perfectly for this purpose.
My mother thinks i'm goth because i draw my eyeliner pretty long and like platform shoes, but for some reason i rarely get catcalled when i combo those (compared to when i wear regular clothes and minimal or no makeup), it makes me feel good and keep the men away ^^
The level of research in this was amazing and I really appreciated the very determined support of people who are not men and who generally aren't read as men by society. And I LOVED the threatening hat at the end there. It was so good.
This made me feel so much better, I’d been blaming myself for years that it was my fault I had been catcalled once when I was 12 (by a group of grown men ew) because I was wearing shorts and boots which I’d chalked up to being “too raunchy”
This made me see that’s not the case ❤️
Honestly, as a teenager, I was upset that I WASN'T harassed. I felt like I was being ignored, like my existence was so horrible that none of the boys at my school wanted to even just be mean. But I'm 24 now, and I'm endlessly amused that everyone at school knew that I was genderless before I did and never thought to say anything. Special shout out to my bud Tyler who was horrified to learn that I did, indeed, wear women's stockings sometimes.
I’m a woman so the gender aspect doesn’t apply to me, but I’ve felt “left out” or like there was “something wrong with me” when other middle school girls were talking about getting catcalled and I hadn’t been. It’s a messed up standard.
@@mspennywhistle you just reminded me of an article I read on a feminist website a few years ago, about what men want from women: sexy enough that men think they have a chance with you, but demure enough that you aren't labeled a sl*t. And grown men say it to young girls, too; and grown women perpetuate it. If you aren't attractive enough that strange boys/men will yell at you about your tits/ass/legs/makeup, then you're not "feminine" or a "real woman". Which is disgusting and twisted and makes me hate Men in general sometimes. Bring back hatpins, there needs to be more stabbin'.
AaAAAAAAaaa! Same! Im largely ignored by men. Which is usually fantastic! But part of me wonders "whats wrong" with me for /not/ getting that sort of attention? Since it's such a sadly common occurrence.
I am now, thankfully, at the age where I have become invisible. At 72 i am no longer worth catcalling.
@@lenabreijer1311 oh that is the DREAM, ma'am.
I've been catcalled while wearing an attire that didn't show off a single bit of skin except my face, and the clothes were loose, not form fitting. What the hell did they think was attractive, I don't have a clue.
I was even cat called while wearing what you described as well as a mask because of the pandemic. (Some) men are crazy, thats my conclusion, i don't see any other explanation
It’s because it’s not about attraction, it’s about exercising power. Once I realized that it made a lot more sense 🙄
It's about power and humiliation, never about clothes.
How infuriating that they banned the long hatpins instead of trying to do something about the creeps.
I remember that post well! Gilded Age Garbage fire is a friend I chat with regularly, and I've just sent her a link to this video!
My new favorite phrase is now "I shall get rid of the mashers with my hat pin."
Even in this age was was sexually harassed by a new employee and my assistant manager who was a man took it seriously, however, my Manager who was a woman treated me like I was a trouble maker looking for attention and making it all up. I left there and started working full-time at another job
So much this! The amount of times I've felt like bringing back the hoop skirt because of men trying to shoulder check me walking down the street, during a pandemic no less.
My Great Aunt may she rest in piece, once told the story that she was climbing onto a bus with my Grandmother (who was younger, a child, she at the time was a young married lady around 19), and a man touched her butt while she was climbing up. She turned to him pulled off her heal and bashed him in the head when he tried to yell at her blood running down his face the bus driver told him that's what he desierved.
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Ah...so men always thought they had a say in how every women dresses...
Oof, absolutely got reminded of living in a shared house and having my (normally caring, socially sensitive) housemates admit they thought I was wearing sports bra while we were moving furniture in an attempt to attract their attention. I mean, typing it out, it doesn't sound implausible, but I adopted more and more conservative clothing over the following years because of how uncomfortable it made me. I was still overcoming sexual assault trauma at the time.100% agreed with the points being made, had to stop watching because of the feels. :P
P.S. thanks for listening to my off-topic rant! I guess I needed to share that story.
My shoulders are wide so i wear a sports bra all the time. Well i switched the favorite last week for a different one and my sister accused me of not having one on at all. (It wasnt quite as thickly padded so the pointer sisters must have made a debut.) Imagine having my own sister trying to shame me (when i know waaay too much about her behavior!) And pretending not to understand why when i give her the stink eye. She has always had more success with the gentlemen but still has to be jealous of my chesticles and eye color. I am not a person who could leave the house braless or sans any other undergarment. And it would be bizarre of me to try to compete with her on the social arena. Bur we look at things from point of view of polar oppposite.
The difference is that even if you had turned the situation back on them by speculating aloud about wether they might be wearing tightie whities or jockstraps or codpieces to impress you- they still would have taken it as flirting. It is unfortunately a one-way street.
So good! Oh, and I have about 15-20 of my great grandmothers hat pins! They were saved! .... a lot of them are bent, oh the tales they could tell.....!!!
Bring back the hatpin! 👒📍
This was everything I didn't know I wanted in a video, but desperately needed. Long live historical manrepellers. Bring back the hat pin!
bring back the wide skirts to enforce social distancing!
My great grandma used to talk about using hatpins for self defense.
I love this so much! I was out shopping once with my best friend in a shoe store (she was looking for heels for her bridesmaid dress). I was kinda just wandering around waiting for her to finish and I noticed this guy kept staring at her and sometimes made comments and would try and reach out to touch her. By instinct I picked up a heel from the stand and literally said “Keep your hands off of my friend otherwise I will hit you with this”. I think he got the message when his face went red and he ran out of the store 😂
Me, wondering if I can even pull off hats so big they have to be held on with pins. Me, about to find out.
Big hats are for *everyone.*
Honestly, This made me want to invest into said pins.