Thanks to you both!! I have attempted Leeds charting several times… and produced nothing but nonsense. I really didn’t understand what I was doing. I still don’t quite get it. The process you used looks like it would work to identify cousins for a missing father or grandfather but I am striving to find my Paternal Great Grandfather, Mr Sperm Donor. I suspect that for this to work, I would have to use a lower range to select 3rd-4th cousin matches with an 8 to 16 column spreadsheet spread. I especially want to thank you for your spreadsheet operations. The way you used formulas was new to me. Although I have been using them since Lotus 1-2-3, mostly it has been for budgets, Balance Sheets, etc. I have attempted to copy matches from Ancestry and 23andme… but my efforts were crude and tedious compared to your methods. Thanks again, Ray Buker
With the Leeds, if you know which color grouping is the grandparent that is a child of your great grandfather, then you can look at those matches and divide them up by how they are related to great grand parents (i.e. find the ones related to your great grandmother and eliminate them).
This is great. I like that you showed your mistakes. I learned a lot about excel through this too. Not often I follow step by step without having to skip forward.
Thanks. I hope you'll watch more videos (especially the ones Devon does.). And leave lots of comments. We strive to read all of them. (Devon reads all of the research video comments).
Thank you for evolving my DNA cousin matches spreadsheets! I'm digging exploring the LEEDS method more; yet I do have endogamy. I do see it being helpful for clustering matches along the grandparents lines too. Thanks for the spreadsheet formula expressions tips too! 38:26 You mentioned this about 23andMe's Relatives in Common feature (ruclips.net/video/fOHsRKFGm_c/видео.html) 23andMe tip for this process: When you are connected to your DNA cousin match and use the Relative in Common feature, it will evolve the Relatives in Common feature to display how you are connected to each of your DNA cousin matches compared to the DNA cousin match's matches. Therefore, the Relatives in Common columns on the 23andMe Relative in Common tool display like this: The first column is your DNA match’s name as displayed on 23andMe. The second column displays your DNA cousin matches list and either your predicted relationship or the relationship you choose to edit your DNA cousin match as your known relationship to that match. Then, it displays that result and below in parentheses it shows the percentage of your DNA shared with that DNA cousin match. This helps for not having to jump back to your DNA cousin match list to see the percentages again. Note: I have changed my known relationships to some 2C1R and 3C1R, which is helpful for my side. Yet, I wish the DNA cousin match would update if they know the relationship more than the predicted relationship for each match, if known. I saw this recently when someone updated the relationships for grandfather, father, son, for example. Then, this becomes definitely helpful for working together with your connected DNA cousin match. The third column displays your DNA cousin match’s list and either their predicted relationship or the relationship they chose to edit the DNA match cousin as their known relationship to that match. Then, it displays that result and below in parentheses it shows the percentage of DNA shared with that DNA cousin match has with their DNA cousin match. Note: If your DNA match doesn’t update the known relationships with their 23andMe DNA matches, then be careful and refer to the percentages for further guidance. Unfortunately, it’s a lot of work to extract this info to sort for your DNA cousin match’s list. Therefore, you are utilizing your DNA cousin matches list sorted by your list being first priority in ranking. If you want to rank your DNA cousin match’s list, then you could add a column to manually, add each of match’s percentage, and do a calculation to get a rough estimate of the shared cM amount that that DNA cousin match has to their DNA cousin match in their list. The fourth column displays the DNA overlap with a “Yes”, “No”, “Not Available”, “Request Sent”. 1. The “Yes” means the DNA overlaps on the same segment(s) (just a clue that it overlaps somewhere) 2. The “No” means there is no DNA overlap on the shared segment(s) 3. The “Not Available” means you are not connected to the DNA cousin match to fully share each other DNA results 4. The “Request Sent” means the request you sent to connect is still pending Sadly, I haven’t figured out a way to sort to rank the DNA cousin match’s list easily and I don’t like having to tab at the bottom for every 10 DNA matches to compare. It’s a bit inconvenient. If you were able to extract out the pages of shared DNA matches between you and your DNA connected cousin match, then you could sort their match list too for further clues. Tips for 23andMe users: When sending invites to DNA cousin matches, it gives a few extra, deeper views for further DNA research. Both of these are hidden until you connect with the DNA match. 1. When expanding the “View DNA details” feature, it will then show the chromosome browser along with the cM’s and the percentage view for convenience when looking at the chromosome browser. 2. When expanding the “Find Relatives in Common” feature, it will then show further info between the two DNA shared matches (see above for the middle columns display info) by stating whether or not there is DNA overlap. Good luck on everyone’s DNA cousin solving journeys! Let’s keep working together!
I found my matches changed list position when I labeled the match with known relationship. Thus a known second cousin with a low shared cM was shifted to a position higher than match with a longer shared length of cM
*What does LEEDS stand for?* Is it an acronym or a name or does it mean it takes us someplace (as in leAds)? Googled it and found out it's a chart named for the person who developed it. "The Leed's Method was termed by Dana Leeds, a genealogist who works as a 'Search Angel' sorting through DNA matches on unknown parentage cases. She implemented a strategy to color coordinate DNA matches in a spreadsheet which allowed her to determine which DNA matches were related to each other. Dec 23, 2022"
I am totally confused. I had not heard of a Leeds Chart until I started watching your videos - which I loved. However, wWhat is the exact purpose of a Leeds chart? How does it help with my brick walls which are at least 3 generations back (g-g-grandparents) in the early 1800's?
Leeds Charts help you cluster your close matches (which may or may not descend from an ancestor 3 generations back). Once you have identified how all of your close relatives are connected to you (the ones that appear on the Leeds Chart), hopefully you'll have a cluster that is your 3x Great-grandparents. Then you can begin looking at additional DNA matches and do triangulation to see who matches the ones you know descend from the ancestor you're researching. And perhaps you will find the answer. The LEEDS chart is the first step to filtering your DNA matches
Trying to follow along and having to replay the 'structions :) multiple times. The problem is, I have a different version of Excel and I had to look at your screen capture a couple of times to even find "freeze" for the top row.
We use Google Sheets, so converting to Excel can be a challenge. I'm so glad you're able to hit the stop button to figure out how to use Excel to do what we did.
That's definitely something to consider. Unfortunately, many people in this audience struggle with using spreadsheet formulas, so I was striving for simplicity. I hope that's what I achieved. But I appreciate you sharing an option for more advanced spreadsheet users.
Also when filtering, had you selected to keep the zero's and blanks you wouldn't have to go through all those extra steps. It put a 0 next to the first time the name appears and 1's next to all the others. So had you selected to filter out all the 1's in the beginning that would have done the trick.
Yep, there are multiple ways to skin a cat. I usually do something else entirely that doesn't involve adding extra columns, but that is more complicated for most people in our channel audience.
23&me no longer shows the shared dna any more after their security breach nor the download dna relatives data button. leaving only the hand entry and calculations. making 23&me a lot less useful to me.
Yep, there are multiple ways to skin a cat. I usually do something else entirely that doesn't involve adding extra columns, but that is more complicated for most people in our channel audience.
@@FamilyHistoryFanatics I have someone showing up as a fist cousin on my maternal all side (which I thought I knew all of them unless one or both my grandparents had a child no one knows about) on 23andme but he's not sharing any info at all and trying to place him is difficult. He's also not responding to messages. Any suggestions? Or any videos on this type of situation?
Thank you for the bottom line dealing with a pedigree collapse & endogamy : it was suggested to me that Leeds might be of use in sorting out my conundrum. Grand parent ducks line up, but with one, I have no 1C or 2C -& no 3C match me. Six of the 8 gg grandparents are also good. My maternal grandmother's maternal grandmother raised her- DNA matches support this, confirmed by those of a 3C I've found- similar range of numbers. So: a 'sister ' had her- with help from one of the 8 sons of a family well-represented in my matches- including their remote cousins. As yet I've not been able to zero in on which. (It's taken me 75 years to get this far.) Problem: her maternal grandfather 's name bears no relationship with my - nor my cousins ' - DNA. Where they should be, I have an identifiable "bunch " of matches, centred on a couple I suspect to have been his grandparents. In addition to numerous pedigree collapse, they (ir)regularly married with one other family, & occasionally, with 2 others. How to find 2 ancestors in this mud-pie... I have at least 70 matches with family #1 - most around 14cM - where they belong!-(they match with the "strong " ones, and descendants of their remote ancestors are in there too. Where cMs are high- 40 to 60 - I can expect to see pedigree collapse, & I do- but not all were created equal: I'm finding pc at 14cM. My current project is to sort them by which children are involved- see if patterns emerge. I'm not sure if at the same time I can sort by what other family is involved. Eventually I'll get to details of age, place , time, marriage date. I doubt if I'll ever be sure I've found his parents- a couple of probable possibles may have to do. A more realistic goal may be to 'settle' on his grandparents... Thoughts? Observations? Suggestions?
Pedigree collapse presents unique problems (as you have found out). Only suggestion I have is to try and build as complete a tree as possible. Then with your matches, try and identify all of the potential multiple relationships. Unfortunately with as small of matches as you are working with (14cM) it is very difficult to place them in an exact place.
YIKES. If I'm adding the genetic distance correctly, that only leaves 10 matches over 90! That's less than is even in my predicted family tree! Guess I can't even do this..
You're not alone. My wife, Devon, has very few people above 90cMs. You can lower the threshold to 40cMs but you might muddle the lines more often. Hopefully in time (or a different DNA website), you'll have more DNA matches appear.
Is the Donna Leeds method the best method to find the paternal line of a person? A friend of mine did several dna tests but we can’t figure out which is paternal or maternal…
It's not the best or the worst but rather one tool in the tool box. There are many tools used to research the family lines we have. I always recommend people start with a Leeds Chart. Then tackle the other tools ruclips.net/p/PLcVx-GSCjcdmsw25mbI-wJin_9_9QQUzI
I only have two DNA matches between 400cM and 90cM on 23andMe! I'm in the UK though. I have only 9 matches in the 400-40cM range. I have 41 matches in the 400-30cM range so I'm going to try with them, although I suspect this wont work as the genetic distance will be too high. If anyone has helpful suggestions or comments about this, that'd be great. Thank you both for the video. Please can I ask why you include the X DNA in the total genetic distance? I'm not familiar with 23andMe yet, I've only cluster matches on Ancestry and MyHeritage where X is not included. Thanks.
I think the Leeds method for my 23&Me matches isn't helpful. I don't have enough testers among them from all my lines. I have already identified most of the relationships, too, so I'm using the information I already have to try to make the chart work. Is it more useful when we first start out in genetic genealogy?
My sister & I are from the same parents. My sister recently did 23andme & somehow we have a 1st cousin 17+% that we don't know of (?) that also spells his name differently from ours. Ours Larson, his Larsen. To our knowledge-We only have one deceased paternal aunt. It says we share grandparents so does this mean my deceased paternal aunt had another child or that we have another aunt or uncle floating around? Very confusing if you haven't done this before. We're just curious & like mysteries lol. Can anyone offer anything further? I'm hoping that's enough info to go on.
@Family History Fanatics & Genealogists Thanks for getting back to me! I have very little Ashkenazi Jewish ancestry (.8%) and none of the other ancestries that you mentioned. I am 60% Italian (Dad born in Napoli, Italy and came to US in 80's) with trace amounts of Greek, Balkin, Iberian, and Basque. What's interesting is that my maiden name (De Stefano) is spelled the Spanish way instead of the more common Italian spelling (Di Stefano). Its been extremely hard to navigate Italian records since most are held at the churches in towns of each region of Italy. Very hard to figure out how I'm related to almost all of them. Additionally, I have relatives from 2 different sides of my maternal lineage who are also related to each other. Albeit distantly but there are a lot 😱
I am on 23plus and they have me capped at 6000. If I understood what they told me correctly, they said as new ones come in, they bump the lower ones off the list. So my goal is to get as many to connect as possible so I can (later on) find all the surname connections for my tree. In my list, I have noticed that more on my mother's side tested. I feel that is because many lines got separated trying to survive in the 1890's and again in the 1930's. Some branches moved out of state, so many don't know their tree and were using this to find out.
I have a double whammy of having a recent pedigree collapse (Dad was born in 1915 and his parents were first cousins) and my paternal grandmother was one of 12 children. All but one of my matches in the 400-90cM range ( 8 matches total) are descendants of my paternal grandmother's siblings. Is there a work around for this?
You can always go lower than 90 cM, just realize that you are likely dealing with 3rd or 4th cousins at that point so you will probably have more than 4 colors.
You're struggling with my wife's problem. ruclips.net/video/pJDjHg13QgI/видео.html Do not go below 40 cMs and recognize there are many problems that crop up when you're working with the 90-40 cM range.
I have a overlap question. How can we know if we're seeing endogamy/pedigree collapse vs matching through each of 4 unrelated parents? I hope that question makes sense. I know what I'm trying to say, but words are not my friend right now. I'm fighting my way through the wonky 23andMe match list (why can't the folks be in consistent order?!) and I am finding some overlap. The two points of overlap are with 2 of my matches involving adoptions. With the one, he and his mother (the adoptee) are in my maternal grandpa's column. I know where they go in my tree on Grandpa's side. The mother is my 2C. He is also in an unknown column, but his mother is not in it. I don't have any idea how that unknown column lead fits into my tree. The next adoptee is in my paternal grandma's column as well as in that unknown column with the first guy. He is just outside the 400cM to 90cM range at 89cM. I know which side he goes on, but I do not know where he goes in my tree. I know that most cases could possibly be worked out by viewing the chromosome browser, if that is available for that particular match, and if all 4 parents have been tested. In this case, the mother and son and the 2nd adoptee have all connected with me. I do not see any segments that the son has that his mother doesn't have. They won't upload to GEDMatch. So, no answer there. My parents have tested, but not on 23andMe. Both are on GEDMatch. But, what about when it isn't available, like when they won't connect, or they are on Ancestry, or elsewhere, but won't upload to GEDMatch? How do you figure it out then?
Your question makes sense. If you find this, do the Leeds chart without the overlapping person. Then see if the colors still have overlap. If there is little overlap, then that person is likely related through "unrelated" people.
@@FamilyHistoryFanatics Ok, thank you. I will try that. I think this is a first for me. I only have 4 columns this time. I know which grandparent 3 of them point to, but have no idea yet on that mystery column. Thanks again.
Q-Why does your shared relatives pages look different than on mine? Nevermind I think it is because you are on a computer not a mobile phone or other device!
It depends. For close relationships, yes. For more distant relatives (4th-6th cousins) there is the possibility of false matches. The other thing to be aware of is that sometimes a DNA match is listed as a 1st cousin 1 removed when in reality they're 2Cs (and so on). That's the nature of statistical predictions of relationships. That's why we have to use DNA + genealogical records to find the accurate relationship. Finally, for those with endogamy, this get more complicated. But that's a topic for another day.
The common ancestor for 2nd cousins is 3 generations back. So GG Parents. Count parents 1, g parents 2, gg parents 3. First cousins share grandparents.
What would you like to know? If you're using them as a lead person, that won't work because they are too closely related. if it's something else, I'll need more information.
Thanks to you both!!
I have attempted Leeds charting several times… and produced nothing but nonsense. I really didn’t understand what I was doing. I still don’t quite get it. The process you used looks like it would work to identify cousins for a missing father or grandfather but I am striving to find my Paternal Great Grandfather, Mr Sperm Donor.
I suspect that for this to work, I would have to use a lower range to select 3rd-4th cousin matches with an 8 to 16 column spreadsheet spread.
I especially want to thank you for your spreadsheet operations. The way you used formulas was new to me. Although I have been using them since Lotus 1-2-3, mostly it has been for budgets, Balance Sheets, etc.
I have attempted to copy matches from Ancestry and 23andme… but my efforts were crude and tedious compared to your methods.
Thanks again,
Ray Buker
With the Leeds, if you know which color grouping is the grandparent that is a child of your great grandfather, then you can look at those matches and divide them up by how they are related to great grand parents (i.e. find the ones related to your great grandmother and eliminate them).
This is great. I like that you showed your mistakes. I learned a lot about excel through this too. Not often I follow step by step without having to skip forward.
Even if you have to skip forward, it's okay. But I'm glad you liked the video.
Thank you for this video! I will definitely be rewatching. :)
You're welcome.
Aww, first video I’ve watched with both of you, y’all are too cute. Thanks for these great videos.
Thanks. I hope you'll watch more videos (especially the ones Devon does.). And leave lots of comments. We strive to read all of them. (Devon reads all of the research video comments).
Thank you for evolving my DNA cousin matches spreadsheets! I'm digging exploring the LEEDS method more; yet I do have endogamy. I do see it being helpful for clustering matches along the grandparents lines too. Thanks for the spreadsheet formula expressions tips too!
38:26 You mentioned this about 23andMe's Relatives in Common feature (ruclips.net/video/fOHsRKFGm_c/видео.html)
23andMe tip for this process: When you are connected to your DNA cousin match and use the Relative in Common feature, it will evolve the Relatives in Common feature to display how you are connected to each of your DNA cousin matches compared to the DNA cousin match's matches. Therefore, the Relatives in Common columns on the 23andMe Relative in Common tool display like this:
The first column is your DNA match’s name as displayed on 23andMe.
The second column displays your DNA cousin matches list and either your predicted relationship or the relationship you choose to edit your DNA cousin match as your known relationship to that match. Then, it displays that result and below in parentheses it shows the percentage of your DNA shared with that DNA cousin match. This helps for not having to jump back to your DNA cousin match list to see the percentages again. Note: I have changed my known relationships to some 2C1R and 3C1R, which is helpful for my side. Yet, I wish the DNA cousin match would update if they know the relationship more than the predicted relationship for each match, if known. I saw this recently when someone updated the relationships for grandfather, father, son, for example. Then, this becomes definitely helpful for working together with your connected DNA cousin match.
The third column displays your DNA cousin match’s list and either their predicted relationship or the relationship they chose to edit the DNA match cousin as their known relationship to that match. Then, it displays that result and below in parentheses it shows the percentage of DNA shared with that DNA cousin match has with their DNA cousin match. Note: If your DNA match doesn’t update the known relationships with their 23andMe DNA matches, then be careful and refer to the percentages for further guidance. Unfortunately, it’s a lot of work to extract this info to sort for your DNA cousin match’s list. Therefore, you are utilizing your DNA cousin matches list sorted by your list being first priority in ranking. If you want to rank your DNA cousin match’s list, then you could add a column to manually, add each of match’s percentage, and do a calculation to get a rough estimate of the shared cM amount that that DNA cousin match has to their DNA cousin match in their list.
The fourth column displays the DNA overlap with a “Yes”, “No”, “Not Available”, “Request Sent”.
1. The “Yes” means the DNA overlaps on the same segment(s) (just a clue that it overlaps somewhere)
2. The “No” means there is no DNA overlap on the shared segment(s)
3. The “Not Available” means you are not connected to the DNA cousin match to fully share each other DNA results
4. The “Request Sent” means the request you sent to connect is still pending
Sadly, I haven’t figured out a way to sort to rank the DNA cousin match’s list easily and I don’t like having to tab at the bottom for every 10 DNA matches to compare. It’s a bit inconvenient. If you were able to extract out the pages of shared DNA matches between you and your DNA connected cousin match, then you could sort their match list too for further clues.
Tips for 23andMe users: When sending invites to DNA cousin matches, it gives a few extra, deeper views for further DNA research. Both of these are hidden until you connect with the DNA match.
1. When expanding the “View DNA details” feature, it will then show the chromosome browser along with the cM’s and the percentage view for convenience when looking at the chromosome browser.
2. When expanding the “Find Relatives in Common” feature, it will then show further info between the two DNA shared matches (see above for the middle columns display info) by stating whether or not there is DNA overlap.
Good luck on everyone’s DNA cousin solving journeys! Let’s keep working together!
You could use a tool like Data Scraper to grab this list. I will put that on the list of things to make a video of.
Missed this one this morning. Catching the rerun.
Awesome.
I found my matches changed list position when I labeled the match with known relationship. Thus a known second cousin with a low shared cM was shifted to a position higher than match with a longer shared length of cM
Yeah, I haven't figured out the exact criteria for how the match list ranks but known relationship does play a role.
EXACTLY The Info I Need!. Thank You!!!
Glad it was helpful!
time to rewatch. And start working on a new Leeds chart.
Awesome
*What does LEEDS stand for?* Is it an acronym or a name or does it mean it takes us someplace (as in leAds)?
Googled it and found out it's a chart named for the person who developed it.
"The Leed's Method was termed by Dana Leeds, a genealogist who works as a 'Search Angel' sorting through DNA matches on unknown parentage cases. She implemented a strategy to color coordinate DNA matches in a spreadsheet which allowed her to determine which DNA matches were related to each other. Dec 23, 2022"
I am totally confused. I had not heard of a Leeds Chart until I started watching your videos - which I loved. However, wWhat is the exact purpose of a Leeds chart? How does it help with my brick walls which are at least 3 generations back (g-g-grandparents) in the early 1800's?
Leeds Charts help you cluster your close matches (which may or may not descend from an ancestor 3 generations back). Once you have identified how all of your close relatives are connected to you (the ones that appear on the Leeds Chart), hopefully you'll have a cluster that is your 3x Great-grandparents. Then you can begin looking at additional DNA matches and do triangulation to see who matches the ones you know descend from the ancestor you're researching. And perhaps you will find the answer. The LEEDS chart is the first step to filtering your DNA matches
Trying to follow along and having to replay the 'structions :) multiple times. The problem is, I have a different version of Excel and I had to look at your screen capture a couple of times to even find "freeze" for the top row.
We use Google Sheets, so converting to Excel can be a challenge. I'm so glad you're able to hit the stop button to figure out how to use Excel to do what we did.
You can use Pivot tables to add up quickly the Genetic Distances.
That's definitely something to consider. Unfortunately, many people in this audience struggle with using spreadsheet formulas, so I was striving for simplicity. I hope that's what I achieved. But I appreciate you sharing an option for more advanced spreadsheet users.
Not all show the cM - if you are not connected with them
Very useful, thank you!
Also when filtering, had you selected to keep the zero's and blanks you wouldn't have to go through all those extra steps. It put a 0 next to the first time the name appears and 1's next to all the others. So had you selected to filter out all the 1's in the beginning that would have done the trick.
Yep, there are multiple ways to skin a cat. I usually do something else entirely that doesn't involve adding extra columns, but that is more complicated for most people in our channel audience.
23&me no longer shows the shared dna any more after their security breach nor the download dna relatives data button. leaving only the hand entry and calculations. making 23&me a lot less useful to me.
23andMe has removed the feature to download relatives data?
I did not get the Formulas to work properly especially SUMIFS what am I doing wrong? I tried to write them axact as Andrew did !
It depends on which program you are using. Excel, Google Sheets, Open Office, or Apple?
Mine Google Sheet won't do this formula either. Answer is 0 every time. What the heck!
From my experience, 23 and Me sorts shared matches by strength of relationship, then by percentage DNA shared.
I have seen that.
The problem is of people on 23and me aren't opted in to share their information it'll only show percentage not cM. I use DNA painter for these.
Yep, there are multiple ways to skin a cat. I usually do something else entirely that doesn't involve adding extra columns, but that is more complicated for most people in our channel audience.
@@FamilyHistoryFanatics I have someone showing up as a fist cousin on my maternal all side (which I thought I knew all of them unless one or both my grandparents had a child no one knows about) on 23andme but he's not sharing any info at all and trying to place him is difficult. He's also not responding to messages. Any suggestions? Or any videos on this type of situation?
Thank you for the bottom line dealing with a pedigree collapse & endogamy : it was suggested to me that Leeds might be of use in sorting out my conundrum.
Grand parent ducks line up, but with one, I have no 1C or 2C -& no 3C match me. Six of the 8 gg grandparents are also good.
My maternal grandmother's maternal grandmother raised her- DNA matches support this, confirmed by those of a 3C I've found- similar range of numbers. So: a 'sister ' had her- with help from one of the 8 sons of a family well-represented in my matches- including their remote cousins. As yet I've not been able to zero in on which. (It's taken me 75 years to get this far.)
Problem: her maternal grandfather 's name bears no relationship with my - nor my cousins ' - DNA.
Where they should be, I have an identifiable "bunch " of matches, centred on a couple I suspect to have been his grandparents. In addition to numerous pedigree collapse, they (ir)regularly married with one other family, & occasionally, with 2 others. How to find 2 ancestors in this mud-pie...
I have at least 70 matches with family #1 - most around 14cM - where they belong!-(they match with the "strong " ones, and descendants of their remote ancestors are in there too.
Where cMs are high- 40 to 60 - I can expect to see pedigree collapse, & I do- but not all were created equal: I'm finding pc at 14cM.
My current project is to sort them by which children are involved- see if patterns emerge.
I'm not sure if at the same time I can sort by what other family is involved.
Eventually I'll get to details of age, place , time, marriage date.
I doubt if I'll ever be sure I've found his parents- a couple of probable possibles may have to do.
A more realistic goal may be to 'settle' on his grandparents...
Thoughts? Observations? Suggestions?
Pedigree collapse presents unique problems (as you have found out). Only suggestion I have is to try and build as complete a tree as possible. Then with your matches, try and identify all of the potential multiple relationships. Unfortunately with as small of matches as you are working with (14cM) it is very difficult to place them in an exact place.
YIKES. If I'm adding the genetic distance correctly, that only leaves 10 matches over 90! That's less than is even in my predicted family tree! Guess I can't even do this..
You're not alone. My wife, Devon, has very few people above 90cMs. You can lower the threshold to 40cMs but you might muddle the lines more often.
Hopefully in time (or a different DNA website), you'll have more DNA matches appear.
Is the Donna Leeds method the best method to find the paternal line of a person? A friend of mine did several dna tests but we can’t figure out which is paternal or maternal…
It's not the best or the worst but rather one tool in the tool box. There are many tools used to research the family lines we have. I always recommend people start with a Leeds Chart. Then tackle the other tools ruclips.net/p/PLcVx-GSCjcdmsw25mbI-wJin_9_9QQUzI
I only have two DNA matches between 400cM and 90cM on 23andMe! I'm in the UK though. I have only 9 matches in the 400-40cM range.
I have 41 matches in the 400-30cM range so I'm going to try with them, although I suspect this wont work as the genetic distance will be too high.
If anyone has helpful suggestions or comments about this, that'd be great.
Thank you both for the video. Please can I ask why you include the X DNA in the total genetic distance? I'm not familiar with 23andMe yet, I've only cluster matches on Ancestry and MyHeritage where X is not included. Thanks.
I think the Leeds method for my 23&Me matches isn't helpful. I don't have enough testers among them from all my lines. I have already identified most of the relationships, too, so I'm using the information I already have to try to make the chart work. Is it more useful when we first start out in genetic genealogy?
You can make a Leeds Chart for each testing company. 23andMe has a problem with not showing cMs, which is why I separated this one yout.
My sister & I are from the same parents. My sister recently did 23andme & somehow we have a 1st cousin 17+% that we don't know of (?) that also spells his name differently from ours. Ours Larson, his Larsen. To our knowledge-We only have one deceased paternal aunt. It says we share grandparents so does this mean my deceased paternal aunt had another child or that we have another aunt or uncle floating around? Very confusing if you haven't done this before. We're just curious & like mysteries lol. Can anyone offer anything further? I'm hoping that's enough info to go on.
I wish someone would answer this question!
I have 5,004 dna matches in 23&Me. Is that typical?
No, off the top of my head I would guess you have ancestry that has a lot of endogamy (i.e. Acadians, Ashkenazi Jew, Polynesian)
@Family History Fanatics & Genealogists Thanks for getting back to me! I have very little Ashkenazi Jewish ancestry (.8%) and none of the other ancestries that you mentioned. I am 60% Italian (Dad born in Napoli, Italy and came to US in 80's) with trace amounts of Greek, Balkin, Iberian, and Basque. What's interesting is that my maiden name (De Stefano) is spelled the Spanish way instead of the more common Italian spelling (Di Stefano). Its been extremely hard to navigate Italian records since most are held at the churches in towns of each region of Italy. Very hard to figure out how I'm related to almost all of them.
Additionally, I have relatives from 2 different sides of my maternal lineage who are also related to each other. Albeit distantly but there are a lot 😱
I am on 23plus and they have me capped at 6000. If I understood what they told me correctly, they said as new ones come in, they bump the lower ones off the list. So my goal is to get as many to connect as possible so I can (later on) find all the surname connections for my tree. In my list, I have noticed that more on my mother's side tested. I feel that is because many lines got separated trying to survive in the 1890's and again in the 1930's. Some branches moved out of state, so many don't know their tree and were using this to find out.
I have a small amount of DNA from India. Is there some way to match with others on 23andme that have DNA from the same area?
I have a double whammy of having a recent pedigree collapse (Dad was born in 1915 and his parents were first cousins) and my paternal grandmother was one of 12 children. All but one of my matches in the 400-90cM range ( 8 matches total) are descendants of my paternal grandmother's siblings. Is there a work around for this?
You can always go lower than 90 cM, just realize that you are likely dealing with 3rd or 4th cousins at that point so you will probably have more than 4 colors.
But what if my highest match is 148 cMs? Can I go lower than 90 cMs? How far should I go? 44 cMs? :(
You're struggling with my wife's problem. ruclips.net/video/pJDjHg13QgI/видео.html
Do not go below 40 cMs and recognize there are many problems that crop up when you're working with the 90-40 cM range.
@@FamilyHistoryFanatics Thank you!
Can you do a Leeds chart for great grandparents? There are no living parents or grandparents to test.
You don't need to have tested parents or grandparents to do a Leeds chart.
Does it matter if the match is a X Chromosome only match? My mum has some large X only matches.
Leeds Charts work with autosomal DNA, not necessarily x chromosomes
@@FamilyHistoryFanatics Ok, should I remove the x chromosome-only matches from the list for the purpose of the Leeds charts.
I have a overlap question. How can we know if we're seeing endogamy/pedigree collapse vs matching through each of 4 unrelated parents? I hope that question makes sense. I know what I'm trying to say, but words are not my friend right now.
I'm fighting my way through the wonky 23andMe match list (why can't the folks be in consistent order?!) and I am finding some overlap. The two points of overlap are with 2 of my matches involving adoptions. With the one, he and his mother (the adoptee) are in my maternal grandpa's column. I know where they go in my tree on Grandpa's side. The mother is my 2C. He is also in an unknown column, but his mother is not in it. I don't have any idea how that unknown column lead fits into my tree.
The next adoptee is in my paternal grandma's column as well as in that unknown column with the first guy. He is just outside the 400cM to 90cM range at 89cM. I know which side he goes on, but I do not know where he goes in my tree.
I know that most cases could possibly be worked out by viewing the chromosome browser, if that is available for that particular match, and if all 4 parents have been tested. In this case, the mother and son and the 2nd adoptee have all connected with me. I do not see any segments that the son has that his mother doesn't have. They won't upload to GEDMatch. So, no answer there. My parents have tested, but not on 23andMe. Both are on GEDMatch.
But, what about when it isn't available, like when they won't connect, or they are on Ancestry, or elsewhere, but won't upload to GEDMatch? How do you figure it out then?
Your question makes sense. If you find this, do the Leeds chart without the overlapping person. Then see if the colors still have overlap. If there is little overlap, then that person is likely related through "unrelated" people.
@@FamilyHistoryFanatics Ok, thank you. I will try that. I think this is a first for me. I only have 4 columns this time. I know which grandparent 3 of them point to, but have no idea yet on that mystery column. Thanks again.
Q-Why does your shared relatives pages look different than on mine? Nevermind I think it is because you are on a computer not a mobile phone or other device!
That's quite possible.
Hi, from Jordan! 👋 What program will I need to construct a Leeds chart?
I use Google Sheets to create them. It is a free program with a Google account and much more cooperative for me than Excel has ever been.
Google Sheets
Does the 23andme relative in common really shows that these people are related?
It depends.
For close relationships, yes.
For more distant relatives (4th-6th cousins) there is the possibility of false matches.
The other thing to be aware of is that sometimes a DNA match is listed as a 1st cousin 1 removed when in reality they're 2Cs (and so on). That's the nature of statistical predictions of relationships. That's why we have to use DNA + genealogical records to find the accurate relationship.
Finally, for those with endogamy, this get more complicated. But that's a topic for another day.
You've killed my brain.
Sorry. Where did you get lost? Send me an email via our contact form. www.familyhistoryfanatics.com/contact
How do second cousins share a grand parent? I thought they shared great-grandparents.
The common ancestor for 2nd cousins is 3 generations back. So GG Parents. Count parents 1, g parents 2, gg parents 3. First cousins share grandparents.
Correct, they share great grandparents which means they are related to you through 1 of your grandparents.
Matches 400-90cM ignoring 1st cousins
You are making this too complicated; since 400cM approximately equals 4% just use percentages.
Geez, is there a quicker way that this spreadsheet hell?
Sadly, not really. The Leeds Method is the next step of genetic genealogy from beginners to more experienced researchers.
How about an adopted brother on my mom side
What would you like to know? If you're using them as a lead person, that won't work because they are too closely related.
if it's something else, I'll need more information.