On a similar 5 k race trajectory! Won't bore you with the details but doing 5ks for the first time in a couple of years, I'm in the 45-49 cat, and close to but not under 20 mins this summer post injury. Going to give sub 20 a crack at SSAFA this week and if not, then the slightly quicker course in Cardiff in August. Sometimes we overcook the earlier reps, so think you took a sensible option on a hot day. I was urging you to say I'm lacking 'speed endurance' but you never did. There's nothing wrong with your endurance. My advice would be to forget the 5 x 1km sessions now, do a few sessions of maybe 800m reps or 600ms with short recoveries and then maybe some pyramid sessions, 200, 400, 600, 800, maybe even a 1km or mile then back down. Or I saw a post from James Thie's group where they did either 3 x 1km then shorter reps or 3 sets of 1km and a shorter rep. Can't remember exactly. Distance runners enjoy the speed stuff, but to run your best 5 km you need to practice running the quicker stuff well beyond where its enjoyable 😂 and you're feeling serious lactate. By that I mean running a quick 200m rep is fun, running a quick 600m rep is a very different experience!
Good luck at SSAFA this week and I’ll see you at podium 👊 thanks for that, they sound some good session options! As my time now is limited as I transition to marathon training, I won’t have room for too many more, but I do have something like what your describing pencilled in, as I’ve been doing similar in previous weeks, so it’s a progression of those 👊
I think you've got a good chance of sub 16 Andy. Let's hope you get a slightly cooler day for it. Your 4 x 1k was always going to be tough in the heat only 3 days after a race. You've got this 👍
Speed work and extending TTE is all great and all, but we both know what you need to do to have that truly breakthrough marathon race you deserve. You nail that fueling/hydration and it will open up a whole new range of possible PBs for the marathon.
@@TheFODRunnerhave you tried ucan? Best fuel for marathon, I always struggled with marathon nutrition until I found ucan and now they have a gel it’s even easier to use than the drink
@@TheFODRunner Would it be worth trying a race vest with 2 80g carb bottles, and 2 40g Maurten gels (insurance)? 1L of fluids should get you close to 32k, where you can grab a few cups on course if needed. I found trickle carbs/fluids (every KM) much easier on the body, and more than worth the weight carrying it.
Just off the back of Ben feltons vo2 max video and going from what the experts were saying you would have got more from that doing 6 reps but slightly slower than goal pace and trying to get closer as you get on in the session. It's something I am going to try in my training bud. Just a thought. 👌 cracking vid as usual Andy!
Hope you dont mind me picking your running brain. I have completed 6 x 1k at goal 5k Pace with 90s rest, I have the race this weekend however it is only worth the journey if it’s a possibility of achieving said goal. Is this workout a direct indicator I could achieve the goal? Great summer series btw really enjoyed it!
Hi Andy loving the training series mate …. Question ? You mentioned speed endurance and the lack of it …. Why do you say that when you’ve been nailing the Double Threshold work ? Isnt Double Ts exactly for speed endurance ?
Yes! But… arguably it’s very controlled threshold and although it does build strength and long term endurance…. Im specifically talking more about workouts that focus around extending out my 10k paces… So this block, my “fast” workouts have been targeting 15:50/16:00 5k pace, then some faster reps for quicker turnover and top end speed. I now need to move to some 10k paced reps…. Like 6/8 x 1k @ 10k pace and then something like 4 x 200m at the end to spin the legs…. So basically my “fast” workout of the week extends out to 10k pace reps rather than 5k pace reps. That combined with some “faster than” 10k effort reps thrown in will really help!
Should have done that extra 1k rep… I’ve always been told once you quit, easier to quit again when going gets tough 🫢 Hope I’m wrong…. Good luck for Battersea 🙌
I did contemplate it… but when I feel form start to go, that’s a recipe for disaster! I’d rather bank 4 quality ones than 5 and struggle badly on the last 2… not worth it! You’re right about the mentality… once you quit, you give yourself permission to quit again… but I’ve never DNF a race, I just sometimes play it safe in training 👊
On the other hand, doing that extra rep that you feel is out of your range can also mess with your recovery later on or worse, cause injury... In my opinion it's all about learning to listen to the signals your body send you
As soon as toy said Bob & Brad .. their daft into tune started to play in my head 😆
Haha 😝
Nothing says grit like doing intervals around an industrial estate, love it!
I’m so sick of the industrial estate 😂
On a similar 5 k race trajectory! Won't bore you with the details but doing 5ks for the first time in a couple of years, I'm in the 45-49 cat, and close to but not under 20 mins this summer post injury. Going to give sub 20 a crack at SSAFA this week and if not, then the slightly quicker course in Cardiff in August.
Sometimes we overcook the earlier reps, so think you took a sensible option on a hot day.
I was urging you to say I'm lacking 'speed endurance' but you never did. There's nothing wrong with your endurance. My advice would be to forget the 5 x 1km sessions now, do a few sessions of maybe 800m reps or 600ms with short recoveries and then maybe some pyramid sessions, 200, 400, 600, 800, maybe even a 1km or mile then back down. Or I saw a post from James Thie's group where they did either 3 x 1km then shorter reps or 3 sets of 1km and a shorter rep. Can't remember exactly.
Distance runners enjoy the speed stuff, but to run your best 5 km you need to practice running the quicker stuff well beyond where its enjoyable 😂 and you're feeling serious lactate. By that I mean running a quick 200m rep is fun, running a quick 600m rep is a very different experience!
Good luck at SSAFA this week and I’ll see you at podium 👊 thanks for that, they sound some good session options! As my time now is limited as I transition to marathon training, I won’t have room for too many more, but I do have something like what your describing pencilled in, as I’ve been doing similar in previous weeks, so it’s a progression of those 👊
Make a video bro, how to use massage gun in muscles
Rooting for you Andy! Being able to run those times in hot conditions looks promising for next week's race! Good luck!
Thanks 🙏 I’ll give it a good go
I think you've got a good chance of sub 16 Andy. Let's hope you get a slightly cooler day for it. Your 4 x 1k was always going to be tough in the heat only 3 days after a race.
You've got this 👍
Thanks Mike, I’ll give it a crack 👊
Tough wind and hot weather on those 5 x 1Ks. You'll crush it!
Thanks, yes! We need more of this heat to get used to ot!
Absolutley bekieve you can do it! It will come down to the heat and acclimation. A great foundation for cooler fall races, even if not this race.
Thanks for the support Debra 👊
Speed work and extending TTE is all great and all, but we both know what you need to do to have that truly breakthrough marathon race you deserve. You nail that fueling/hydration and it will open up a whole new range of possible PBs for the marathon.
Yeah, this is my big Achilles heel for sure!! I do agree 👊
@@TheFODRunnerhave you tried ucan? Best fuel for marathon, I always struggled with marathon nutrition until I found ucan and now they have a gel it’s even easier to use than the drink
@@TheFODRunner Would it be worth trying a race vest with 2 80g carb bottles, and 2 40g Maurten gels (insurance)? 1L of fluids should get you close to 32k, where you can grab a few cups on course if needed. I found trickle carbs/fluids (every KM) much easier on the body, and more than worth the weight carrying it.
Just off the back of Ben feltons vo2 max video and going from what the experts were saying you would have got more from that doing 6 reps but slightly slower than goal pace and trying to get closer as you get on in the session. It's something I am going to try in my training bud. Just a thought. 👌 cracking vid as usual Andy!
Yeah just watched his video last night, it was fantastic!
Warm day in Uk is 5AM temperature in my country 😂
I know haha! Our temperatures are poor compared to the rest of the world 😂
Hope you dont mind me picking your running brain. I have completed 6 x 1k at goal 5k Pace with 90s rest, I have the race this weekend however it is only worth the journey if it’s a possibility of achieving said goal. Is this workout a direct indicator I could achieve the goal? Great summer series btw really enjoyed it!
Thanks! If you’re completing 6k worth of work at 5k goal pace, that’s pretty darn good, I’d be confident if I was you!!
Easy work for you Andy
I’m not sure about easy 🤔 but I’ll definitely give it my best shot 👊
Are you talking about Sri Chimnoy mate? I’m there Tuesday 🙌
Sadly not, the runthrough topflight race Wednesday
@@TheFODRunner ah got you!
Hi Andy loving the training series mate …. Question ? You mentioned speed endurance and the lack of it …. Why do you say that when you’ve been nailing the Double Threshold work ? Isnt Double Ts exactly for speed endurance ?
Yes! But… arguably it’s very controlled threshold and although it does build strength and long term endurance…. Im specifically talking more about workouts that focus around extending out my 10k paces…
So this block, my “fast” workouts have been targeting 15:50/16:00 5k pace, then some faster reps for quicker turnover and top end speed. I now need to move to some 10k paced reps…. Like 6/8 x 1k @ 10k pace and then something like 4 x 200m at the end to spin the legs…. So basically my “fast” workout of the week extends out to 10k pace reps rather than 5k pace reps. That combined with some “faster than” 10k effort reps thrown in will really help!
Should have done that extra 1k rep… I’ve always been told once you quit, easier to quit again when going gets tough 🫢 Hope I’m wrong…. Good luck for Battersea 🙌
3 days post hard race and he said 4 or 5 before hand. Not the same as planning 5 and quitting early.
@@debrascott8775 Watch from 00:50 and tell me what he said….
@@debrascott8775 Please goto 00:50 and 1:06 and tell me what Andy says….. and again at 1:18, before talking himself out of it.
I did contemplate it… but when I feel form start to go, that’s a recipe for disaster! I’d rather bank 4 quality ones than 5 and struggle badly on the last 2… not worth it!
You’re right about the mentality… once you quit, you give yourself permission to quit again… but I’ve never DNF a race, I just sometimes play it safe in training 👊
On the other hand, doing that extra rep that you feel is out of your range can also mess with your recovery later on or worse, cause injury...
In my opinion it's all about learning to listen to the signals your body send you