Great discussion brothers! You both work well together. I look forward to hearing more from you soon regarding the verse by verse teaching The Scriptures. 🙌🏼 Shalom and blessings! ☺️🕊️
Excellent dialogue on these verses. For others here, I would add that Yeshua (Jesus) references heaven and earth in Matt. 5:18 as needing to pass before a jot or tittle can pass from the Torah (Law), because Elohim established them as witnesses to the permanence of the Torah in Deut. 30:19-20. While the two witnesses remain, the Torah does as well, until all is accomplished and they pass at the end of the days. The argument that 'heaven and earth' here is an idiomatic phrase referring to the Temple, and the subsequent argument that since the Temple 'passed' the Torah is now open to parts or all of it passing, does not hold merit when accounting for the full breadth of Scripture.
Shabbat shalom PD and David, thank you Brothers for your service and work.. In my training, when you were talking about taking paths, I need your perspective. I teach when he said thou shalt not swear an oath, this is followed up with let your yes be a yes and your no be a no.. I teach that the swearing the oath is that the elevated power of the law of saying yes and no. Are words are so important that are yes and those are as an oath. In The perfect tour it's perfectly allowed to swear an oath.. but yahushua fulfill their elevated the Torah to his standards so that makes a yes or a no become our oath., What are your opinions brothers??
I know you didn't ask my opinion but here it is anyway.....I think that in light of His "yes or no command" we need to put a guard on our mouths for sarcasm. If our yes is yes and our no is no then sarcasm is a perversion.
When I first learned about God's law and how there's so much more to it, it came to me that the law of God is a spectrum of His instructions. Its not Jesus vs Moses, what a crazy concept they've turned it into. Sometimes I describe it as a spectrum, sometimes I liken it to a canopy. A canopy of God's instructions. Instructions like in the way we type commands into a computer and it performs different actions to reach the intended results. When God created the universe, I see it as He was essentially giving commands. The canopy of God's law, His instructions to us, are a guide, going back to that "spectrum". On one end of the spectrum is the Law of Sin and Death. When we follow the law after the flesh, then we are "under the law", the penalty or curse the law brings when we break it, and do not repent. It's also what happens when we try to follow the law in the flesh, without faith. Then it's just empty deeds, rituals devoid of any real connection to Him. Its action without faith, which is why they kept breaking the law. But with faith, on the other end of the spectrum of God's law, we're under grace, because that's where we follow His law after the Spirit, it's when we're lawful and walking as He did. Somewhere on that end of the spectrum of God's Law, are the Laws of Liberty and of Love, and of the Spirit of Life in Messiah. The whole canopy or spectrum represents "God's Law". I truly loved this conversation between the both of you. I always learn something new when I listen to you both and I appreciated this video very much. Thank you, Shalom🙏🏻
@@Cottonpickin-mc2 I love the illustration you give here. In case you thought your little comments never impact anyone, you just did. Thank you for sharing.
On top of only having half the conversation for Shauls letters and thus incomplete context, its important to understand the background for the approach, perspective and foundation of what Shaul says. He's a self proclaimed pharisee of pharisees with what many would consider a very desirable pedigree having been a student of a widely respected and sought after rabbi. Most modern Christians reading Shaul and making claims on his stance about the Torah is roughly akin to a 1st grader taking what they heard from a professor in a 30 minute lecture from a multi-year doctorate level course and giving a thesis based on it. Not only is it absurd to claim that that is possible to do, its absurd to have any expectation for them to be able to. Thus we must not only try to teach and correct these incorrect positions about Shauls teachings, but we must also do so with humility and compassion. Even the most learned scholars would have to admit they don't know precisely what Shaul said and taught because of the incomplete context, passage of time and translations, and that they do not have personal first hand knowledge. Through study though we can rule out many possibilities and come to one that fits the best (again more reasons to handle discussions about it with humility and compassion). Silver linings: 1-its not our job to convince, just to point to truth, ask questions and offer solutions. The rest is up to the Ruach HaKodesh to guide and convict. 2-Yeshua is coming back and will set all things straight for everyone on all the things that we don't know and/or become stumbling blocks or points of contention.
Luk 8:21 And He answering, said to them, “My mother and My brothers are those who are hearing the Word of Elohim and DOING IT.” Mat 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Master, Master,’ shall enter into the reign of the heavens, but he who is DOING the desire of My Father in the heavens. Mat 4:4 But He answering, said, “It has been written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of יהוה.’ ” Mat 19:17 And He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except One - Elohim. But if you wish to enter into life, GUARD THE COMMANDS.”
45:23 Why does God say that those who relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do it the same will be called least in the kingdom of Heaven but then goes on to say unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the Pharisees you will not enter the kingdom of Heaven ? I thought when it said that those who doesn’t follow the commandments is called least in the kingdom of Heaven means they’ll just be lesser with less rewards, etc because it’s not making sense to me in the first half that He says it’s not really a salvation issue with the commandments when he says those will be called least then in the next sentence he says you will not enter the kingdom of Heaven unless your righteousness exceeds the scribes and Pharisees, I hope I’m making sense. Could someone please explain this to me?
To me it seems like a heart issue. In another place Jesus told the pharasees they were so concerned about tithing from the tiniest bit of cumin and spice but they had forgotten the "weightier" matters. In another place Jesus told his disciples to listen to what they preached but don't do what they do......he called them hypocrites. So when I read this part about our righteousness surpassing the pharasees I always stop and examine what righteousness am I wearing? It should be His righteousness and not my own. It all comes back to the faith issue for me. Am I living Torah as a response of and according to my measure of faith? Or am I keeping Torah as the pharasees did, in their own righteousness?
Thank you for this teaching. This is just my thoughts on this; Yahshua Ha Moshiach IS the Law of Yahweh (the 10 commandments). He gave it to us in writing so that if we kept it we would be like HIm. It will never change no matter what happens to the Heaven and Earth, because HE never changes. We couldn't keep it, and we broke it. He came to earth to live the Law, that represented who He was, perfectly, as it was intended. When He died the Law died for three days and nights, as the Law is Him. When He rose from the dead the Law was restored to its unbroken state because He fulfilled it. To say it is done away with is to deny His resurrection, because it was His resurrection that over came the grave or death, which was the penalty we all faced for breaking the Law. That is how HE fulfilled the Law. From that day forward all sin, past present and future is covered by the work HE did on the cross. The jots and tittles (or all the little details of everything) are the details that are attached to everything that proceeded out of YHWH's mouth that must be fulfilled before they, the jots and tittles, can be discarded. The Law remains forever, but He said His prophecies will fulfill all that He sent them out to accomplish, in every little detail (jots and tittles), and they would not come back to HIm void (or unfulfilled). They will accomplish what He sent them out to do. This means that heaven and earth will pass away when that happens. He isn't going to change the rules that HE lives by and that make up HIs essence. Why would HE spend all this time trying to teach us His Law only to change it when we enter His Kingdom?
Jesus fulfilled the law and prophets as the Messiah, he did not replace the Mosaic Law but offered a better covenant, and the old faded away with the destruction of the Temple.
Here Are Examples Of Paul Keeping Torah: * Circumcised Timothy (Acts 16:1-3) * Took the nazarite vow (Acts 18:18; 21:17-26) * Taught and observed Gods holy days such as: * Passover (Acts 20:6; 1Cor. 5:6-8; 11:17-34) * Shavuot (Pentecost) (Acts 20:16; 1Cor. 16:8) * Fasting on Yom Kippur (Acts 27:9) . Paul and others made a Temple sacrifice for their Nazarite vow, . So Paul went to the Temple the next day with the other men. They had already started the purification ritual, so he publicly announced the date when their vows would end and sacrifices would be offered for each of them. Acts 21:26 . . Paul kept the Sabbath Acts 18:4 - And he (Paul) reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.(Gentiles) . . Paul taught that a believer in Yeshua the Messiah is saved by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8-9). . After we are saved by grace through faith, Paul taught that we should follow the Torah (Romans 3:28-31). . . Paul followed the Torah through the help of the Holy Spirit (Romans 7:22). . . Paul did not teach people to observe the law in order to be saved or justified. . . That was not the purpose of the law. . . He taught them to observe the law in order to honor God as they walked out the Christian life in the footsteps of their Lord Jesus. . . By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep HIS commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. .....1 John 5:2-3 KJV .
@BillH-l3c Jesus did not or could not teach anything else that the law he was born in,not that that would be forever has he did not know the time the Temple would be destroyed. So it is irrelevant other than the fact he was the Messiah of prophecy, the law just made the Pharisees into hypocrites, without the law they could not be and they would be let off. There is no comfort for David Wilbur in this passage, because what the Pharisees were told does not affect us, and Jesus taught keeping the Torah by faith as given to Abraham.
@BillH-l3c Yes the Torah remains, it is the gospel, as the gospel is "doers of the law shall be justified", it is just the manner in which.the law is now kept, which is by faith. I am not antinomian, I know David is sensitive to lawlessness, and so am I.
what about peters dream of the unclean animals in acts? also what about the laws where it says to stone people, cast them out, etc.? surely the love your neighbor command would override many of the laws like that. also what about all the laws about sacrifices, isnt He the sacrifice? can you make an explanation for acts chapter 10:9 and 1 timothy 4:1-5
Your questions are addressed in the following videos: Acts 10: ruclips.net/video/qeQTMJVKpaI/видео.html 1 Tim 4: ruclips.net/video/ezt52DSz2Yw/видео.html
@@myheart2375 Hi, friend, in short, this was God communicating with Peter immediately prior to being retrieved to visit and minister to a non-Jewish home. Gentiles were considered unclean. God was telling him to accept the invitation.
"The torah nowhere commands us to hate our enemies" Are you saying it doesnt COMMAND that we must hate our enemies? Would enemines of the Lord not also be the enemies of His followers? Hating the enemies of the Lord is certainly not comdemned by the psalmist. What about this and other imprecatory prayers in the psalms? I think there is a little more nuance here than what your conversation implies. Psalm 139:21-24 KJV. Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? And am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.
righteous anger is not sin, ............. Were to love our neighbors/enemies as ourselves....... Thats a Torah command,,,,,, “If your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat; And if he is thirsty, give him water to drink,” (Proverbs 25:21)............. “If you come upon your enemy’s ox or donkey that has strayed away, take it back to its owner. Exodus 23:4
I really don't think it's as important to Define fulfill as it is important to acknowledge what he isn't doing in other words it's not as important to figure out what he is doing with the law as to find out what he isn't doing and what we know he isn't doing with the law is abolishing it
You would think right. But I think considering how far those in debates are willing to take it, mis defining fulfill, it has to be said. Because when you look at the concordance, like he said, it does provide several meanings, including to 'complete' or "bring to completion". It's important to help people understand why 'complete' doesn't work, although they will insist. But that's why I totally understand where you're coming from. It shouldn't be this complex when you read the context.
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to (fulfil-->(Pleroo g4137) . I have (fully preached)-->(Pleroo g4137) the gospel of Christ. Rom. 15:19 . Many claim fulfill in Matt 5:17 means to Abolish, The Greek word Fulfill is Pleroo g4137, If thats true then these verses must also be Abolished right ? . Matt 3:15 (Pleroo g4137) (Abolished) all righteousness. Rom. 15:19 (Pleroo g4137) (Abolished) the gospel of Christ. PHILI 2:2 (Pleroo g4137) (Abolish) my joy, Colossians 1:25 (Pleroo g4137) (Abolish) the word of God;
The focus of these verses are not on the law of Moses, as you would like it to be. The "law and prophets" means all the scripture that has been revealed, in other words the whole Old Testament. Jesus said that he did not come to abolish the Old Testament and start a new religion, but that he is the fulfillment of the whole Old Testament. He is the one who is fulfilling all the Messianic prophecies, lessons and stories, and the law of Moses is pointing to him, who is fulfilling all of it. Well, if he is fulfilling Messianic prophecies to the letter and we now only look upon him who fulfilled it, we also do not study Messianic prophecies as the real deal is here, so too with the law of Moses which he also fulfilled. Jesus is the real deal, the fulfillment, or the substance of the shadow that you guys are chasing. Focus on him only. If you do not focus on the substance but on the laws and impress God with the shadows, then your righteousness would need to exceed that of the Scribes and Pharisees - and that is not a compliment or suggestion.
Jesus a man could only keep the law which he did by faith, the letter of the law is now a matter of faith, and the temple polity is in heaven, the word of God is the matter of faith.
Here Are Examples Of Paul Keeping Torah: * Circumcised Timothy (Acts 16:1-3) * Took the nazarite vow (Acts 18:18; 21:17-26) * Taught and observed Gods holy days such as: * Passover (Acts 20:6; 1Cor. 5:6-8; 11:17-34) * Shavuot (Pentecost) (Acts 20:16; 1Cor. 16:8) * Fasting on Yom Kippur (Acts 27:9) . Paul and others made a Temple sacrifice for their Nazarite vow, . So Paul went to the Temple the next day with the other men. They had already started the purification ritual, so he publicly announced the date when their vows would end and sacrifices would be offered for each of them. Acts 21:26 . . Paul kept the Sabbath Acts 18:4 - And he (Paul) reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.(Gentiles) . . Paul taught that a believer in Yeshua the Messiah is saved by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8-9). . After we are saved by grace through faith, Paul taught that we should follow the Torah (Romans 3:28-31). . . Paul followed the Torah through the help of the Holy Spirit (Romans 7:22). . . Paul did not teach people to observe the law in order to be saved or justified. . . That was not the purpose of the law. . . He taught them to observe the law in order to honor God as they walked out the Christian life in the footsteps of their Lord Jesus. . . By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep HIS commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. .....1 John 5:2-3 KJV .
@BillH-l3c Acts is proof of my other comment, as both covenants were legitimate from the Cross until the Temple was destroyed in AD70, but the law of sin remains as unrighteousness not the letter. Paul could act according to both covenants as both required keeping the law by faith.
The law is not abolished. In Christ, the law is fulfilled at a higher, spiritual level. That's why things like circumcision is no longer of the flesh, it is of the heart. That's also why we no longer view people as unclean because of what they eat. Because they have been made clean. Did the law change? No it is fulfilled spiritually in Christ. We fulfill the law not by all the things ethnic Jews do, but by following the law of Christ. So the law isn't abolished, but Christians fulfill it differently than Israel did in the old testament because we have Christ. The old testament should be interpreted by the new testament. Understanding that, there is no tension between Jesus and Paul. And none between the new testament and the old. The old is the shadow and Christ is the substance. I have the substance.
Paul still circumcised Timothy because he is a Jew and it was an everlasting covenant given to Abraham for his blood descendants, legally adopted children, or slaves. Paul did not circumcise Titus (full gentile) because it was not applicable to him. Everlasting means everlasting. Like Jesus is our everlasting king. Hell is everlasting. Heaven is everlasting. When you read the whole Bible cover to cover you learn where the USA pastors messed up bc they didn't know it that well and promoted lies.
@EImpact-zt9rg I don't know if you agree with me or not? Or if you just didn't actually read my comment. I am aware of the everlasting. But doesn't that mean until death? To me there is no conflict. We do die and are reborn to new life in Christ. So the old me is dead. So Christ and His law is what we follow. Which is a higher level compared to strictly letter of the mosaic law.
It was a blessing to join you for this conversation, my friend. Thanks again for having me. I hope people are blessed by the discussion!
Great discussion brothers! You both work well together. I look forward to hearing more from you soon regarding the verse by verse teaching The Scriptures. 🙌🏼 Shalom and blessings! ☺️🕊️
Great discussion gives clarity and an answer for those who are questioning or searching for truth! Shalom and blessings!
You two are so refreshing to watch. Nice, clear, accurate teaching with no weird stuff. Super awesome!
Excellent dialogue on these verses. For others here, I would add that Yeshua (Jesus) references heaven and earth in Matt. 5:18 as needing to pass before a jot or tittle can pass from the Torah (Law), because Elohim established them as witnesses to the permanence of the Torah in Deut. 30:19-20. While the two witnesses remain, the Torah does as well, until all is accomplished and they pass at the end of the days. The argument that 'heaven and earth' here is an idiomatic phrase referring to the Temple, and the subsequent argument that since the Temple 'passed' the Torah is now open to parts or all of it passing, does not hold merit when accounting for the full breadth of Scripture.
He filled it up, raised it up, packed it full
Shabbat shalom PD and David, thank you Brothers for your service and work..
In my training, when you were talking about taking paths, I need your perspective. I teach when he said thou shalt not swear an oath, this is followed up with let your yes be a yes and your no be a no..
I teach that the swearing the oath is that the elevated power of the law of saying yes and no.
Are words are so important that are yes and those are as an oath.
In The perfect tour it's perfectly allowed to swear an oath.. but yahushua fulfill their elevated the Torah to his standards so that makes a yes or a no become our oath.,
What are your opinions brothers??
I know you didn't ask my opinion but here it is anyway.....I think that in light of His "yes or no command" we need to put a guard on our mouths for sarcasm. If our yes is yes and our no is no then sarcasm is a perversion.
I’ve always read it as think not that I’ve come to abolish the law but fulfill the prophets 🤷🏻♀️
When I first learned about God's law and how there's so much more to it, it came to me that the law of God is a spectrum of His instructions. Its not Jesus vs Moses, what a crazy concept they've turned it into.
Sometimes I describe it as a spectrum, sometimes I liken it to a canopy. A canopy of God's instructions. Instructions like in the way we type commands into a computer and it performs different actions to reach the intended results. When God created the universe, I see it as He was essentially giving commands.
The canopy of God's law, His instructions to us, are a guide, going back to that "spectrum". On one end of the spectrum is the Law of Sin and Death. When we follow the law after the flesh, then we are "under the law", the penalty or curse the law brings when we break it, and do not repent. It's also what happens when we try to follow the law in the flesh, without faith. Then it's just empty deeds, rituals devoid of any real connection to Him. Its action without faith, which is why they kept breaking the law. But with faith, on the other end of the spectrum of God's law, we're under grace, because that's where we follow His law after the Spirit, it's when we're lawful and walking as He did. Somewhere on that end of the spectrum of God's Law, are the Laws of Liberty and of Love, and of the Spirit of Life in Messiah. The whole canopy or spectrum represents "God's Law".
I truly loved this conversation between the both of you. I always learn something new when I listen to you both and I appreciated this video very much. Thank you, Shalom🙏🏻
@@Cottonpickin-mc2 I love the illustration you give here. In case you thought your little comments never impact anyone, you just did. Thank you for sharing.
I don't believe that's the way the New Testament authors spoke about God's Law though...
On top of only having half the conversation for Shauls letters and thus incomplete context, its important to understand the background for the approach, perspective and foundation of what Shaul says.
He's a self proclaimed pharisee of pharisees with what many would consider a very desirable pedigree having been a student of a widely respected and sought after rabbi.
Most modern Christians reading Shaul and making claims on his stance about the Torah is roughly akin to a 1st grader taking what they heard from a professor in a 30 minute lecture from a multi-year doctorate level course and giving a thesis based on it. Not only is it absurd to claim that that is possible to do, its absurd to have any expectation for them to be able to.
Thus we must not only try to teach and correct these incorrect positions about Shauls teachings, but we must also do so with humility and compassion. Even the most learned scholars would have to admit they don't know precisely what Shaul said and taught because of the incomplete context, passage of time and translations, and that they do not have personal first hand knowledge. Through study though we can rule out many possibilities and come to one that fits the best (again more reasons to handle discussions about it with humility and compassion).
Silver linings: 1-its not our job to convince, just to point to truth, ask questions and offer solutions. The rest is up to the Ruach HaKodesh to guide and convict. 2-Yeshua is coming back and will set all things straight for everyone on all the things that we don't know and/or become stumbling blocks or points of contention.
Luk 8:21 And He answering, said to them, “My mother and My brothers are those who are hearing the Word of Elohim and DOING IT.”
Mat 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Master, Master,’ shall enter into the reign of the heavens, but he who is DOING the desire of My Father in the heavens.
Mat 4:4 But He answering, said, “It has been written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of יהוה.’ ”
Mat 19:17 And He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except One - Elohim. But if you wish to enter into life, GUARD THE COMMANDS.”
45:23
Why does God say that those who relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do it the same will be called least in the kingdom of Heaven but then goes on to say unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the Pharisees you will not enter the kingdom of Heaven ?
I thought when it said that those who doesn’t follow the commandments is called least in the kingdom of Heaven means they’ll just be lesser with less rewards, etc because it’s not making sense to me in the first half that He says it’s not really a salvation issue with the commandments when he says those will be called least then in the next sentence he says you will not enter the kingdom of Heaven unless your righteousness exceeds the scribes and Pharisees, I hope I’m making sense. Could someone please explain this to me?
You’re right, He is referring to a lower hierarchy in heaven. We are saved by faith.
Because the Pharisees, or at least a good number of them, lacked faith. We're justified by faith not works.
To me it seems like a heart issue. In another place Jesus told the pharasees they were so concerned about tithing from the tiniest bit of cumin and spice but they had forgotten the "weightier" matters. In another place Jesus told his disciples to listen to what they preached but don't do what they do......he called them hypocrites. So when I read this part about our righteousness surpassing the pharasees I always stop and examine what righteousness am I wearing? It should be His righteousness and not my own. It all comes back to the faith issue for me. Am I living Torah as a response of and according to my measure of faith? Or am I keeping Torah as the pharasees did, in their own righteousness?
Do you two agree on the atonement? PSA is sort of a weird teaching when you dig into it and ask questions
Thank you for this teaching. This is just my thoughts on this;
Yahshua Ha Moshiach IS the Law of Yahweh (the 10 commandments). He gave it to us in writing so that if we kept it we would be like HIm. It will never change no matter what happens to the Heaven and Earth, because HE never changes. We couldn't keep it, and we broke it. He came to earth to live the Law, that represented who He was, perfectly, as it was intended.
When He died the Law died for three days and nights, as the Law is Him. When He rose from the dead the Law was restored to its unbroken state because He fulfilled it. To say it is done away with is to deny His resurrection, because it was His resurrection that over came the grave or death, which was the penalty we all faced for breaking the Law.
That is how HE fulfilled the Law. From that day forward all sin, past present and future is covered by the work HE did on the cross.
The jots and tittles (or all the little details of everything) are the details that are attached to everything that proceeded out of YHWH's mouth that must be fulfilled before they, the jots and tittles, can be discarded. The Law remains forever, but He said His prophecies will fulfill all that He sent them out to accomplish, in every little detail (jots and tittles), and they would not come back to HIm void (or unfulfilled). They will accomplish what He sent them out to do. This means that heaven and earth will pass away when that happens.
He isn't going to change the rules that HE lives by and that make up HIs essence. Why would HE spend all this time trying to teach us His Law only to change it when we enter His Kingdom?
Jesus fulfilled the law and prophets as the Messiah, he did not replace the Mosaic Law but offered a better covenant, and the old faded away with the destruction of the Temple.
Fulfil means fully teach
Here Are Examples Of Paul Keeping Torah:
* Circumcised Timothy (Acts 16:1-3)
* Took the nazarite vow (Acts 18:18; 21:17-26)
* Taught and observed Gods holy days such as:
* Passover (Acts 20:6; 1Cor. 5:6-8; 11:17-34)
* Shavuot (Pentecost) (Acts 20:16; 1Cor. 16:8)
* Fasting on Yom Kippur (Acts 27:9)
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Paul and others made a Temple sacrifice for their Nazarite vow,
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So Paul went to the Temple the next day with the other men. They had already started the purification ritual, so he publicly announced the date when their vows would end and sacrifices would be offered for each of them. Acts 21:26
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Paul kept the Sabbath
Acts 18:4 - And he (Paul) reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.(Gentiles)
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Paul taught that a believer in Yeshua the Messiah is saved by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8-9).
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After we are saved by grace through faith, Paul taught that we should follow the Torah (Romans 3:28-31).
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Paul followed the Torah through the help of the Holy Spirit (Romans 7:22).
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Paul did not teach people to observe the law in order to be saved or justified.
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That was not the purpose of the law.
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He taught them to observe the law in order to honor God as they walked out the Christian life in the footsteps of their Lord Jesus.
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By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep HIS commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. .....1 John 5:2-3 KJV
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@BillH-l3c Jesus did not or could not teach anything else that the law he was born in,not that that would be forever has he did not know the time the Temple would be destroyed. So it is irrelevant other than the fact he was the Messiah of prophecy, the law just made the Pharisees into hypocrites, without the law they could not be and they would be let off. There is no comfort for David Wilbur in this passage, because what the Pharisees were told does not affect us, and Jesus taught keeping the Torah by faith as given to Abraham.
@BillH-l3c Yes the Torah remains, it is the gospel, as the gospel is "doers of the law shall be justified", it is just the manner in which.the law is now kept, which is by faith.
I am not antinomian, I know David is sensitive to lawlessness, and so am I.
@@BillH-l3c It never means that... It means To fill, to make full, to complete, to fulfill. None of those mean to teach or keep or promote...
what about peters dream of the unclean animals in acts? also what about the laws where it says to stone people, cast them out, etc.? surely the love your neighbor command would override many of the laws like that. also what about all the laws about sacrifices, isnt He the sacrifice? can you make an explanation for acts chapter 10:9 and 1 timothy 4:1-5
Your questions are addressed in the following videos:
Acts 10: ruclips.net/video/qeQTMJVKpaI/видео.html
1 Tim 4: ruclips.net/video/ezt52DSz2Yw/видео.html
@@RiseOnFire thank you
@@myheart2375 Hi, friend, in short, this was God communicating with Peter immediately prior to being retrieved to visit and minister to a non-Jewish home. Gentiles were considered unclean. God was telling him to accept the invitation.
"The torah nowhere commands us to hate our enemies" Are you saying it doesnt COMMAND that we must hate our enemies? Would enemines of the Lord not also be the enemies of His followers? Hating the enemies of the Lord is certainly not comdemned by the psalmist. What about this and other imprecatory prayers in the psalms? I think there is a little more nuance here than what your conversation implies.
Psalm 139:21-24 KJV. Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? And am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.
righteous anger is not sin, ............. Were to love our neighbors/enemies as ourselves....... Thats a Torah command,,,,,, “If your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat; And if he is thirsty, give him water to drink,” (Proverbs 25:21)............. “If you come upon your enemy’s ox or donkey that has strayed away, take it back to its owner. Exodus 23:4
I really don't think it's as important to Define fulfill as it is important to acknowledge what he isn't doing in other words it's not as important to figure out what he is doing with the law as to find out what he isn't doing and what we know he isn't doing with the law is abolishing it
You would think right. But I think considering how far those in debates are willing to take it, mis defining fulfill, it has to be said. Because when you look at the concordance, like he said, it does provide several meanings, including to 'complete' or "bring to completion". It's important to help people understand why 'complete' doesn't work, although they will insist. But that's why I totally understand where you're coming from. It shouldn't be this complex when you read the context.
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to (fulfil-->(Pleroo g4137)
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I have (fully preached)-->(Pleroo g4137) the gospel of Christ. Rom. 15:19
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Many claim fulfill in Matt 5:17 means to Abolish, The Greek word Fulfill is Pleroo g4137, If thats true then these verses must also be Abolished right ?
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Matt 3:15 (Pleroo g4137) (Abolished) all righteousness.
Rom. 15:19 (Pleroo g4137) (Abolished) the gospel of Christ.
PHILI 2:2 (Pleroo g4137) (Abolish) my joy,
Colossians 1:25 (Pleroo g4137) (Abolish) the word of God;
@@BillH-l3c very interesting insight. Thank you.
The focus of these verses are not on the law of Moses, as you would like it to be. The "law and prophets" means all the scripture that has been revealed, in other words the whole Old Testament. Jesus said that he did not come to abolish the Old Testament and start a new religion, but that he is the fulfillment of the whole Old Testament. He is the one who is fulfilling all the Messianic prophecies, lessons and stories, and the law of Moses is pointing to him, who is fulfilling all of it. Well, if he is fulfilling Messianic prophecies to the letter and we now only look upon him who fulfilled it, we also do not study Messianic prophecies as the real deal is here, so too with the law of Moses which he also fulfilled. Jesus is the real deal, the fulfillment, or the substance of the shadow that you guys are chasing. Focus on him only. If you do not focus on the substance but on the laws and impress God with the shadows, then your righteousness would need to exceed that of the Scribes and Pharisees - and that is not a compliment or suggestion.
Jesus a man could only keep the law which he did by faith, the letter of the law is now a matter of faith, and the temple polity is in heaven, the word of God is the matter of faith.
Here Are Examples Of Paul Keeping Torah:
* Circumcised Timothy (Acts 16:1-3)
* Took the nazarite vow (Acts 18:18; 21:17-26)
* Taught and observed Gods holy days such as:
* Passover (Acts 20:6; 1Cor. 5:6-8; 11:17-34)
* Shavuot (Pentecost) (Acts 20:16; 1Cor. 16:8)
* Fasting on Yom Kippur (Acts 27:9)
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Paul and others made a Temple sacrifice for their Nazarite vow,
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So Paul went to the Temple the next day with the other men. They had already started the purification ritual, so he publicly announced the date when their vows would end and sacrifices would be offered for each of them. Acts 21:26
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Paul kept the Sabbath
Acts 18:4 - And he (Paul) reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.(Gentiles)
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Paul taught that a believer in Yeshua the Messiah is saved by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8-9).
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After we are saved by grace through faith, Paul taught that we should follow the Torah (Romans 3:28-31).
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Paul followed the Torah through the help of the Holy Spirit (Romans 7:22).
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Paul did not teach people to observe the law in order to be saved or justified.
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That was not the purpose of the law.
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He taught them to observe the law in order to honor God as they walked out the Christian life in the footsteps of their Lord Jesus.
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By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep HIS commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. .....1 John 5:2-3 KJV
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@BillH-l3c Acts is proof of my other comment, as both covenants were legitimate from the Cross until the Temple was destroyed in AD70, but the law of sin remains as unrighteousness not the letter. Paul could act according to both covenants as both required keeping the law by faith.
The law is not abolished. In Christ, the law is fulfilled at a higher, spiritual level. That's why things like circumcision is no longer of the flesh, it is of the heart. That's also why we no longer view people as unclean because of what they eat. Because they have been made clean. Did the law change? No it is fulfilled spiritually in Christ. We fulfill the law not by all the things ethnic Jews do, but by following the law of Christ. So the law isn't abolished, but Christians fulfill it differently than Israel did in the old testament because we have Christ. The old testament should be interpreted by the new testament. Understanding that, there is no tension between Jesus and Paul. And none between the new testament and the old.
The old is the shadow and Christ is the substance. I have the substance.
Paul still circumcised Timothy because he is a Jew and it was an everlasting covenant given to Abraham for his blood descendants, legally adopted children, or slaves. Paul did not circumcise Titus (full gentile) because it was not applicable to him.
Everlasting means everlasting.
Like Jesus is our everlasting king.
Hell is everlasting.
Heaven is everlasting.
When you read the whole Bible cover to cover you learn where the USA pastors messed up bc they didn't know it that well and promoted lies.
@EImpact-zt9rg I don't know if you agree with me or not? Or if you just didn't actually read my comment.
I am aware of the everlasting. But doesn't that mean until death? To me there is no conflict. We do die and are reborn to new life in Christ. So the old me is dead. So Christ and His law is what we follow. Which is a higher level compared to strictly letter of the mosaic law.