A Public Appeal to Melee TO's: Please Consider Unbanning Hax$ Again
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
- Please support Hax$:
/ @ssbmhax
/ ssbmhax
Stream: / simpleflips
Twitter: / simpleflips
Sources:
1. Evidence.zip 2 playlist: • Evidence.zip Videos
2. Indefinite Ban issued (June 2021): x.com/nycmelee...
3. Apology #1 (Sep 2021): • My apology to the Mele...
4. Apology #2 (Sep 2021): / 1441537392226316304
5. Apology #3 (Jul 2022): • Apology to Leffen
6. NYCMelee Unban (Sep 2022): x.com/nycmelee...
7. Apology #4 (Oct 2023): imgur.com/a/MX...
8. Apology #5 (Oct 2023): • Melee Community Ban Ap...
9. "Unban Appeal 2024" (Jan 2024): • January 2024 Ban Appeal
#freehax
![State of Play | September 24, 2024 [ENGLISH]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/fVs0suPHAX8/mqdefault.jpg)
Wording at the beginning of the video suggests hax made the video when he was a teenager.
I meant to convey that the beef him and leffen had mostly spanned their teenage years and that I wasn't going to hold him accountable for that (or try to talk about what leffen did as a teenager either)
I apologize for the accidental misleading of that. Hax made evidence.zip when he was an adult, covering teenage and young adulthood events.
I'm not a part of the melee community at all but I think Simples in the right. This man has been banned from his talent for 3 years, he's had enough and doesn't deserve this.
@@mikaelmarikarbawa4884 LMFAO I love how basically every single person who agrees with SimpleFlips isn't a part of the Melee community.
Evidence.zip was made when he was an adult. Everything was fine until he made evidence.zip2. Then a fake apology. Then evidence.zip3. Then another fake apology. Then finally a temp ban with conditions that he WILLINGLY broke.
Every single person who actually fucking plays the game, goes to their locals, actually enjoys this game past watching shit on RUclips agrees with the Hax ban. There's a reason for that. He continually broke trust over and over and over again all to villify Leffen, over and over and over again.
@@alexanderbateman5581Sometimes an outside perspective makes all the difference. That and the community pushes people away who disagree with the majority opinion
@@grunkleg.29691 Nobody is pushing away Hax defenders - I'm calling you fucking stupid, because you are stupid, and it's my right to call you stupid. You're welcome to come to any Melee local you wish. I would love to see you there, the growth of the Melee community is great. There are plenty of stupid people in the Melee community.
I agree that he doesnt deserve a lifetime ban. A punishment yes, which has happened. A lifetime ban, no.
I feel that hax$ should have been put on probation (not specifically in the limited circumstances he was given). If there was a coherent code of conduct then this would be more transparent.
But that would be something the community would need to accept as well, which is difficult.
that’s the key. he got his punishment. it’s time to bring him back.
100%
alright jason
Based
Hey SimpleFlips. Gotta give respect to you for deviating from your normal content to spread awareness about an injustice!
Aw dude much love thank you
Based pannen
The abc challenge man himself. Yes, thank you flips
Pannenkoek is such a bro we love you man
injustice is an understatement
Leffen led a campaign against Hungrybox years ago with multiple videos and tweets, to the point that he turned the audience against Hungrybox and he suffered a lot, yet not a single thing was done against him. Leffen had anti-HBox videos on his channel and yet not a single ban nor punishment was given to him.
That Hax got a permanent ban for doing something far more tamed is insane.
Whole smash scene sucks
Hax's video almost single handledly pushed Jisu out of the melee community. It is something he never apologized for and even doubled down on. I agree that Leffen's campaign against hungrybox was ridiculous but to say that Hax didn't harm anyone is simply not true.
@@willlong5703 Dude, if you watched technical's video, you'd know that Jisu made false allegations during the 2020 me too wave.
@willlong5703 so u didn't know jisu lied about everything she went through?
@@willlong5703almost like jisu is a massive liar and should be called out.
ok, punishment is fine when deserved, but telling someone they can't talk about their ban? no, not fair. grow up, people.
He can talk about it. He just has to deal with the repercussions if he does. Pretty simple.
@@BR-ty3hx You HAVE to be trolling. This is some "there are no consequences; you will be banned" shit
@@BR-ty3hx And pretty stupid.
@@BR-ty3hx damn, guess they should ban you for talking about it.
@@sptflcrw8583
the point
your head
So… he has an indefinite ban with no timeline for a potential update… and he’s not allowed to talk about it at all? That’s insane.
Welcome to competitive Smash, where you're either in with the guys at the top or you're out forever...
the problem is that because of his last video it's just a permanent ban.
The crazier thing is that hax basically got banned for having a negative opinion of leffen, he never made any threats in the videos, just kinda went off the deep end a bit which sounds more like a threat to himself than anyone else. (if at all) I can’t speak to anything else he said on twitter so maybe he did make threats of hurting leffen or something (he can be a very volatile person) but like leffen has also made death threats before and no one has banned him so it doesn’t make sense.
Power tripping TOs have ruined this community
No he had an indefinite ban from multiple venues and one place said they'd unban soon as long as he didn't talk about it
I misread the title and thought simple was advocating for hacking in the game.
Most tempted I've ever been to CHEAT in melee
i too was under the impression that simple was advocating for hacking in the game
@@ChimpsR4Most tempted I’ve ever been to EAT in Melee.
@@zassafrasspeedruns 🍔
Most tempted I've ever been to C AT in Melee.
This video was posted on the SSBM subreddit and subsequently removed by a moderator for the following reason:
"Removed for violating Rule 8:
Fan content must be high-effort, original, and related to competitive play
On a personal note, can we just...not do this again? Who is this person?"
Just let the people talk, it's really immature and people should be allowed to have an opinion on it.
That's reddit for you. 90% of subreddits just get censored because of retarded mods.
It's been talked to death, over and over and over and over again.
SSBM community is complete cancer
@@alexanderbateman5581 you keep spamming people in the comments "how did you do at your last local". Do you feel that strongly about Hax that you assume everyone in the comments is not part of the smash community so you have to belittle them? You are part of the reason why people don't like our community.
Hahaha it's so funny how consistent reddit mods talk and act.
Hax and Leffen definitely took their beef a bit far, but the fact that Leffen has been run out of every other game’s community while he’s given special protection in Smash is ridiculous. Then they’re going to gag Hax from talking about the situation while Leffen gets to run his mouth all he wants is absurd.
Keeping people from talking about their experience while holding a guillotine over their head is what abusive partners do. I know Hax loves Melee, but at some point he probably needs to cut his losses and find an actually supportive community that won’t give his abusers special privileges.
That's what I told him. Guy has contributed in almost every facet
-Ranked 6th in 2013
-Developed software to help with training like 20XX
-Carried Falcon the farthest since Isai until Wizzrobe in 2019
-Developed his own controller to return to play after a hand injury and to give others having the same issue an alternative
-Tournament organizer
If the Smash Community really want to hedge their bets on a miserable toxic person like Leffen and his equally toxic fanbase over a guy who had a mental episode once and contributed far more positively to the community, then he should go to another community that will appreciate his contributions
Respectfully, I hate Leffen, that guy is a prick, but he hasn’t been run out of any communities (that I’m aware of) outside of smash. He’s a pariah and a controversial figure, sure, but he’s still a big part of the guilty gear strive scene after he already a long and successful dragonball fighterz career, two of the largest fighting game scenes during their respective reigns. He got made fun of a lot during his short time learning tekken 7 because he was saying a lot of incomprehensible shit and insulting a lot his opponents, but it’s hard to say he was run out of the community when he was only playing the game for a short while and never entered tournaments. The point is, he’s not receiving special protection in smash, his type of inflammatory assholish persona is tolerated across all communities and it’s a real shame that it is.
@@dybchamp1777 I want to live in a world where being an asshole actually gets seen as worse than having a fit from having to deal with assholes 24/7, every large online community is like a school with bullies and the same "getting punished by the teacher for reacting" crap. Bullies are taught that what they do works as kids so they keep doing it as adults while the victims are only taught not to do anything until they have a complete meltdown or take it out by bullying someone else etc etc.
@dybchamp1777 smash is the only community that defends and protects him. He was literally boo'd last year during Guilty Gear.
@@sptflcrw8583 that’s true, I forgot about that! Two things: I think part of the reason he was booed was because he was playing happy chaos who at the time was a pretty controversial character, and he won against slash who was kind of a people’s champ.
The second thing is that, while I do think booing is hard to experience as a player, he is still very much integrated into the strive scene, still friends with top players, still streams the game all the time with no consequences, and still attends lots of major tournaments.
I personally wouldn’t define getting booed one time (not even unanimously booed either) at Evo (the biggest fighting game tournament That He WON remember) which contains an audience full of people who aren’t necessarily even guilty gear players as being “run out of a community”.
I’m so proud of you for stepping up with this, Simple. Putting your reputation on the line to stand up for someone who’s been punished unfairly takes immense character.
How did you do at your last Melee local?
@@alexanderbateman5581 When did you last bathe?
@@alexanderbateman5581 @alexanderbateman5581 Last local was when I was 16 and I got 7th. That was eight years ago now ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ kinda want to get back into it
@@alexanderbateman5581 @alexanderbateman5581 Last local was when I was 16 and I got 7th. That was eight years ago now ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ kinda want to get back into it
@@alexanderbateman5581🤔 Does playing melee make you an expert on morality? Didn't know that fighting game communities were known for their good character.
Hax has been apologizing for the last 3 years just to play Melee
He can play melee he cant compete 2 different things
@@wingedfish1175 You know exactly what OP meant by this. Stop being pedantic for the sake of being pedantic.
@@wingedfish1175 You are not funny bro.
@@wingedfish1175no they executed his GameCube he’s not allowed to
He was still factually correct in most of his video
It was always wild imo that the ban lasted longer than a year. Especially on the scale of what the issues were even about.
It was all done to protect Leffen from public opinion. His image as a heel is very carefully maintained to cover up the fact that he's really just a bully that's terrorized people in this community for years. Hax's ban is such an absurd and blatant example of favoritism that it's not even funny. People act like the only reasons Nintendo doesn't want to associate with this community are the fact that the game is old and people use a modded version, but let's be real: No company worth their salt would touch a rotten structure like this with a fifty foot pole.
@@hoodieninja_7203yeah it’s no big surprise that someone who stood up to leffen was mocked and ridiculed for years by his fans, that dude was always toxic and his fan base was just as bad if not worse
@@hoodieninja_7203 while i agree with a lot of what you said, whomever is making the decisions at Nintendo probably knows next to nothing about the structure of the Melee tournament organizations, they're just both crazy repressive about their games and honestly I would strip them of their salt if i could
How did you do at your last Melee local?
@@alexanderbateman5581 i dont wanna talk about it.
I always HATED how everyone jumped on Hax and just the way they said things. People saying he needs mental help or needs to be locked away was just so gross.
There's also a huge difference between saying "this guy needs mental help" and "Hax I hope you get help"
It was this weird way of talking ABOUT Hax but no one ever talked with him. I hated it so much because it feels so de-humanizing.
You're a brave man for standing up for someone Simple. Hope people listen to your words since they won't listen to Hax's.
I do agree, people treat mentally unwell people awfully. Things like schizophrenia and breakdowns are often used as jokes or punchlines. It truly bothers me how people discussing the fact he needed help as a sort of strike against him rather than a fellow person struggling and in need of help.
He needed help, and I’m happy it seems that he’s gotten it.
"you need help dude" is vile because it lets the sayer pretend that they're being thoughtful of the other person when it's actually just a way of calling someone mentally unwell to insult.
lmao the people who banned him from their local scene were his friends trying to get him to stop, people talked with him all the time.
@@stradiusthey were never his friends, lol
Maybe they're the ones that need the mental help more.
Smash people have some weird reasons as to ban some people and not others
It's not smash people, its the in crowd that runs a majority of the scene. These kinds of groups are exactly why other companies make a point to take a grip on their competitive scenes now, to prevent this exact kind of toxic bullshit.
@RolandTheJabberwocky yeah that's very true. I've noticed that a lot of the people that want to be in the in crowd so badly they just parrot what others are saying
Money and virtue signaling mostly.
@queuedjar4578 This is the exact opposite of virtue signaling. My god, I swear anyone who unironically uses that term is just mimicking shit they've read.
leffen its scared of competition and has a lot of money and connections on the community. universally hated all around but people defend him anyways because its easy. he literally tried to ban hbox puff comparing it to ice climbers. leffen is irrelevant in every community outside of melee, nobody cares about him and he may be consistent playing, but every single community he touches there are 10 people better than him, and instead of trying to be better than them, he talks shit and DC.
dude complains everytime but has the manners of a toddler, people cant complain about the harassment without him pushing for bans
Calling him a prisoner could not be more accurate, unbanning him only from NYC and forbidding him from arguing his case any further just puts his career in indefinite purgatory, because nothing was ever truly resolved. I can't even imagine how frustrating that is. Thank you for using your platform to share this
How did you do at your last Melee local?
@@alexanderbateman5581 copy-pasting this reply across the comment section is the exact opposite of what this video's intent is. Opening a dialogue to reconsider how someone should be treated as a human being moving forward has nothing to do with *my* placement in a tourney, rewatch the video
@@DonutSteel Dialogue has been open, shut, closed, reopened AGAIN and AGAIN and every single time Hax comes out worse for a reason.
I still have not got a single reply saying anything. Nobody who defends Hax actually plays this game.
@@alexanderbateman5581I don't feel you need to play the game to understand and see why this situation isn't okay. It doesn't even really have to do with the game, nor how well I can do at it as an individual. It's about the real world, a mans career (which is not something invaluable), an event/tournament, the circumstances, and nothing less.
Spam is unacceptable and childish, and the reply you're copying and pasting shows you have 0 intent to have any attempt at an open-minded discussion about this matter, or put any true thought into it. Stop it, or actually contribute to the conversation meaningfully. Have empathy. Think. Something at all. I invite you to.
@alexanderbateman5581 What’s your reddit karma?
Only redditors have the autistic tenacity to go over every comment on a topic and post the same groupthink.
I dont want to deviate from the topic at hand but i find it quite astounding that leffen pretty much (imo) went unpunished for all the things he did and that hax$ has been vilified and systematically ostracized for almost 3 years now.
Ironically the response proved Hax right, Leffen has the community wrapped around his finger.
Leffen literally got banned. What the fuck are you talking about
still can't believe nothing happened for corroborating with jisu to create a false SA case against Zero. Dude did not deserve any of that.
That's how life works, unfortunately. I hate it, but it's everywhere, and only by being caring and diligent can we prevent things like this from happening. It happens everywhere, all the time.
@@knic__8799 true
I don't have a horse in this race, but forgiveness is important if you want people to actually learn from their mistakes. If you NEVER forgive somebody, they have no reason to attempt making amends.
Please tell me about your opinion on forgiveness, if you forgive a person 3, 4 times in a row and every time they make the same mistake?
@@fujster they never have
@@fujster they didn't let him compete out of state, he was banned from competing in full capacity for almost 3 years before the last nail, what kind of forgiveness is that? the 2 videos he did against leffen at the start were back in 2021, he tried to reason out his decision recently after 2 years without any kind of over-stepping other than tweeting he is sorry begging to get unbanned on a scale that matters.
Why a exclusive to NYC unban is worthless you may ask? Hax has been always capable to reach top 8 at most majors, he is not competing if he isn't competing nation-wide, it's like allowing olimpian to only compete in their own state and nothing more.
@@math8755 It's the kind of "forgiveness" abusers feign at best. I've been there and it ruins you mentally. I agree, people deserve real chances to learn and be better, not some half assed nonsense.
@@fujster I mean, I'd take the stance that the people deciding this are total losers who finally got some power after being losers their entire life and now are using it to arbitrarily ban people they don't like and protect people they do. The leaders in the Smash community have always been total and complete losers and this is no exception. There is no reason to ask for forgiveness, there wasn't even a mistake made. No other gaming scene has absolute garbage like this, it's only the holier-than-thou Smash community that is ran by children.
Your point at 13:15 shouldn’t even need to be stated. The vilification of having genuine discussions on this topic is egregious and will only lead to more players being treated like Hax$.
How did you do at your last Melee local?
@@alexanderbateman5581 When did you last bathe?
@@alexanderbateman5581 when did you last touch grass?
@@alexanderbateman5581 relevant how?
And the irony of it all? The reason Hax made the video and found himself in this shit? Leffen was being heralded for discrediting his 2013 ban, one that required he not discredit the stories/victims to have the ban lifted
I didn't expect Simple to use his platform this way. I like it, I think it's very unique. And the presentation is very well done and explained
Yessir
How did you do at your last Melee local?
@@alexanderbateman5581 When did you last bathe?
@@alexanderbateman5581 hell nah the redditor with 100k+ comment karma is in yt comments too LMAO
@@alexanderbateman5581 why haven't you asked mew2king this? He commented on this video in defense of Hax.
I was very scared this video would just be an entertainer pulling the rug from his audience to talk about things he doesn't understand and ruin the good vibes of the channel as one often sees, but I was very pleasantly surprised by how well you handled a potentially touchy subject here. I hope Hax$ gets unbanned, you've made a solid case and you've done so without creating more issues than you've solved.
i wonder what you mean by this
Muh safespace
What do you mean by pulling the rug from the audience? I don't understand what you mean by any of this.
@@huhneat8908 Their comment is incredibly clear. Not sure how you can misunderstand it. It basically boils down to "I was worried you would ruin the vibes of your channel by talking about something you know nothing about . . . You handled it well, you quelled my worries." What part of their comment is hard to understand?
@@jamesmccomb9525 if you have been following everything regarding hax$ for a while now it should be pretty clear how someone who isn't (at least immediately regarded as) part of the community stepping in to advocate for his unban could be handled really poorly. Original commenter was probably just commenting on how this is a touchy subject and there is always a feeling of caution surrounding videos like this
Now Hax$ has been doxxed by Greg and has recently been hospitalized, pray for his safety
#FreeHax
The dude is so passionate about the game, and even on the technical aspect of creating a more ergonomical controller that he has tried to balance and purposefully nerf to open up Melee's availability for different controller types speaks for how deeply he cares about the scene. Not only that, the amount of other players who have done worse and have never faced a penalty for one reason or another is a bit eye opening...
He made mistakes, but he acknowledged them and has sought help and advice after making such problems. Such a heavy handed ban for something so small in many peoples opinion. #freehax
Seriously, he got a lot of hate for some of his comments over the years, but he has moved past those, and he contributed way more to the community than most top players
@@lnemf Exactly! The man really feels genuinely sorry, and to place an indefinite ban is just so extreme. Like it's been 3 years, if they don't lift it now when will they? When he's 40? 50?
Most pros absolutely hate the boxx controller lol. Mang0, Zain, and Rishi have all openly said they were against it. Joey used it for 5 minutes one time on Mang0's stream and was in shock at how simple it made ledge dashing. It is objectively too strong and is overall unhealthy for competitive integrity (but did improve accessibility).
@@shadoninja that's valid. I also the BoXX is too strong, but that's not really his fault.
smash ppl literally only ban you for pedophilia and even then only sometimes tbh
So, I just checked out a few reddit threads and twitter posts about others wanting to unban Hax.
Jesus have I never been so glad to not be part of a community. Every single one I found had people attacking the character of those defending Hax. Calling them Alt-right, incels, or digging up their twitter/reddit history for anything to attacking them for. It was disgusting to read though.
I don't think hax or all of his supporters are in the category, but it is undeniable a chunk of his support comes from the "anti-woke" crowd. It doesn't look good that his largest supporter is technicals...
@@loganhonors4154 His largest supporter now might technically be SimpleFlips, and honestly anti-woke is no worse than the alternative. Both extremes are caustic
@@chrismdb5686 and there it is
@@loganhonors4154 Eww. Bigots are fucked.
@chrismdb5686 Both sides is a good way to avoid critical thinking
Hax$ got done dirty while Leffen and Jisu are allowed to run free and do whatever they want consequence free, this community surely got their priorities straight alright
The ract crazy people who believe in massive conspiracies like you are around more then anything is why hax will never be unbanned. I hope sending those deaththreats was worse it.
I will first admit that I haven't kept too up to date with this situation. However I think you unfairly glazed over the reason he was re-banned in NYC. In my opinion, the NYC TO's have been very fair with Hax, and even let him apologize and talk about it without any repercussion, despite it could technically break the guidelines they set. It was only when, after numerous apologies, he instead doubled down a bit on Leffen that they decided to take action. Again, I think it's a bit unfair to those TO's to not express this, as they have stuck their necks out for hax before, when not many other people would.
In my opinion, competing is a privilege. TO's put a lot of time and their own resources on the line to even put on tournaments for the good of the community. It's not a big corporation doing it, it's just local people who want to grow their scenes. These events just can not happen if there is concern with safety. I don't personally feel like hax is a safety concern, but his fans definitely could be, as you have pointed out with his influence. If we were to allow someone to compete that made others feel unsafe, then those people wouldn't be able to compete instead. It actually limits more people from being able to compete if we just ignore this. And Leffen, who has had more results than hax, was one of those people who had felt unsafe to compete after the original videos came out. I personally don't think it matters how good you are at the game though, because I still believe competing in a privilege and not a right. Hax can still play melee, he just can't enter tournaments that have rules and stipulations.
I personally do not think hax should be banned forever, and it would be good for them to reevaluate his ban. I do think he's been treated a bit unfairly nationally and like I said, I do not think he himself is a real threat to anyone, and I do think he's done a lot for the community. It's just hard for me to say that he should just outright be unbanned given when he double downed.
The issue I have with this argument is the fact that Leffen has done the same thing and it was way worse. He was a major part of the melee crowd trying to stoke flames against Hbox. He had a friend come on and talk about a fake bad story about Hbox. Something that friend would later admit he made up because of leffen. This story would become a peice of ammo for a bunch of anti-hbox people. Leffen did not face any repercussions when doing this, nor did he face any when Hbox was Assaulted via crab. Leffen also has not apologized in any way to Hbox. So why when Leffen does the exact same shit and leads to a player being assaulted. But when someone points out that Leffen is highly problematic, and has a rich history of being a problematic figure in the community, that person is instead getting banned because the problematic player is feeling unsafe as a result of being called out because of his behavior that supposedly was fixed back when he got unbanned after the shit that he did presented in Evidence.ZIP.
@@59hawks yeah, my problem isn't necessarily that Hax got banned, it's the blatant double standard.
@@59hawksLeffen definitely was a major contributor in the hbox hate era, but to say he was more than just one of many is pretty disingenuous. Pretty much every top player was trash talking hbox and stirring up the flames, it was an incredibly embarrassing era for the community in general, but to just now go back and decide leffen will be the sacrificial scapegoat is pretty wild IMO.
The things hax brings up in evidence.zip that are actually relevant to modern times are almost all completely meaningless/not strong enough points to warrant a ban. Arguably the strongest modern point for me was leffen's attempt at "censoring" metagame. I do find it pretty silly for him to get so heated over it, but I completely understand Leffen's POV since many people left that documentary thinking leffen is the same as he is today. It could've been presented way better than it was. The next topic people tend to always bring up is... leffen conspiring with jisu to get zero falsely accused? Aside from the fact this is an obvious conspiracy theory with no real grounds or confirmation, zero DID end up being a pedophile so... who cares?
I still think leffen is a pretentious prick, but to say his current behavior is ban worthy is a bit much.
@@MrNapkino well to go down on the list. It doesn't matter if every top player is trash talking Hbox. If Leffen, a person previously banned for harassment of a player, is once again harassing a player. Yeah, he should be a sacrificial lamb to stop the harassment of a top player. He should know better and not be contributing to the problem. And at the smae time it would tell the rest of the community to cool off.
Which brings me to .zip no he clearly hasn't learned his lesson and changed as a person. If he did he wouldn't have tried to censor it. He would acknowledge that what he did was deplorable and would prove that he had genuinely changed. But instead He just learned that unless its socially acceptable to harass someone like Hbox he has to make himself in the defensive so it looks like the other person is the hardasser. He is still seen as a problematic person in the scene. He will drag people into fights and then play the "reasonable good guy" he did it when ultimate came out, and He tried to do this shit in the Tekken community and got his ass laughed out the door. Because the player he tried to do it against refused to be dragged into it and it made him look stupid and his attempts were gonna be considered harassment by the majority of the community so he got his ego bruised and dropped it. If he had truly had changed then he wouldn't be doing this shit still.
And lastly I didn't even bring up Zero but sure lets talk about it. Yeah Zero is guilty that's true. However lying and trying to profit off of the clout is frankly still disrespectful to the victim's, so yeah I care that he tried to force himself into a situation he had nothing to do with just because he can't stand not being part of it, and it does also matter that Jisu with these false allegations because she got a innocent person (Vanessa) to be constantly Harassed off social media because Jisu falsely claimed that she was groomed. I don't give a shit about Zero but Vanessa is the victim in this false allegation case not Zero.
@@59hawks Not sure who leffen is currently harassing that you're addressing here, if you say it's hax, then I can't really agree with that as he's made a consistent effort to not be involved with the drama for years afaik.
The "censoring" of metagame is dubious at best, as leffen doesn't ever actually force any change as much as he just voices his disapproval of how they portray his character, the documentary making it seem like he is still the type of guy to yell in a mentally disabled person's ear.
Starting debates over things he knows nothing about isn't really grounds for a ban even though it's infuriating. And yes the general community dislikes leffen, but that also isn't reasonable grounds for a ban. Also saying that doing this is at all alike how he used to act (with the "he hasn't changed" bit) is insane, his past actions in the original evidence.zip were beyond horrible and arguably warranted a way longer ban than what he got, this is just twitter fgc drama.
Not really sure I agree with leffen "not having anything to do with" the 2020 accusations, every smash player was affected by that event wether they liked it or not. I still see people despise the general smash community due to that event to this day, so for leffen to come out and save community face isn't exactly the worst idea, would you prefer all community heads to have just stayed silent during that event? I can't imagine that would have been a better outlook for the community.
It's conspiratorial to suggest leffen played any major part in what jisu was doing, and to suggest leffen's goal was to do anything more than save community face/give victims a voice is pure speculation. which, once again, isn't ban-worthy.
yeah i agree, at first i was like this dude is unhinged and agreed with the ban but honestly i never felt like a lifetime ban was ever necessary. he's done plenty of time banned and im sure he's grown from all of this.
How did you do at your last Melee local?
@@alexanderbateman5581 When did you last bathe?
@@alexanderbateman5581I didnt play, I bathed and didnt engage with minors
@@alexanderbateman5581your mom
@@alexanderbateman5581 relevant how?
Did NOT expect this kind of post, you have balls and I respect that. Thank you for adding more Melee content to the world, as these things rly need to be discussed more than they usually are. GOAT.
The comparisons Hax$ drew were, at their core, logically sound. Instead it was the starting point of the comparison: Hitler, Stalin, etc. which ensured that whatever points he made with these comparisons, no matter how logical or understandable, could just never be agreeable. And so no one supported him, because how could they?
The support for Leffen in light of Hax$'s video however, now that was baffling. All culminating in a now 3 year long, indefinite ban. Absolutely disgusting. Between the treatment of Hax$ and Hungrybox, there aren't many things I hold with more contempt than the Melee community. They deserve Nintendo's treatment.
Justice for Hax$
Forgive me for being out of the loop, but what happened with HBox?
Last word I heard on him was the crab incident.
@_nRool Essentially, the crab incident was the culmination of the years of hate, bitterness and vitriol that Hbox endured while competing and reaching the status of the #1 player. Enough hate and vitriol for crowds to chant "Fuck Hbox", pray for his downfall and cheer on his losses.
How and why it started isn't very clear or definitive, but a lot of it can be boiled down to the character he played (Jigglypuff) and that he was too overtly emotional after his wins, popping off and screaming. And no one hated Jigglypuff more than Leffen. It was only natural then that all the hate towards this character in a fighting game be directed at the only player that was noticeably successful with said character, Hbox. Beyond that, it evolved into a phenomenon where seemingly everyone had a personal reason to hate Hbox, "everybody has a Hbox story" about an altercation, exchange, drama, misunderstanding, etc.
Why the hate got as bad as it did however, is (in my opinion) because Hbox fought back, alot. Alot more than he should have, in hindsight. He was always outspoken about the hate and the haters. He played into the role of a "villain" and it resulted in the haters feeling vindicated for their hate, justifying it because of Hbox's attitude and behaviour.
Given the amount of hate he faced, that the assault he was a victim of 'only' amounted to a crab being thrown at him could be seen as a silver lining. But that in no way excused the behaviour the general vocal playerbase had towards one of their best players, and the years of hate he endured to get to the top.
The support for Leffen at all has always confused me. He is such a well documented liar and manipulator regardless of and prior to the Hax$/Leffen stuff
Regardless of Hax$ video warranted banning his actual harm to people in the community was a one time event and it pales in comparison to Leffens repeated offenses.
The conversation is sp frequently about if what Hax$ did was OK or not or if he is actually sorry but never realy seems to be about if both his transgressions and his treatment is consistent with the rest of the community
hax was patially unbanned for about a year, then about a year ago hax recanted some of his apologies and restated his claims that got him banned in the first place, while he agreed to not do so. Hax has aa perma ban now. not indefinite.
@@_nRool emplemon made a video that went viral that praised Hbox and Hbox started streaming whiling being much more chill so now its mostly cringe to hate Hbox now.
Similar thing happened to a friend of mine. He became a TO for his local area just after moving there, and was generally well-liked, and after a few months of working his locals, he did some work at one of the state level tournaments. In a conversation with some of the other TOs from his area, he made an inside joke that had always been fine, but another TO had been eavesdropping and was offended due to lack of context. After getting yelled at, he was handed an indefinite ban from events state-wide, and all of his "friends" abandoned him, since they didn't want to risk defending him and also getting banned. Idk if the ban was ever lifted, but it was still in place when he moved out of state 4 years later.
That's ungodly levels of cringe!
well it may depend on the content of the joke since you didnt reveal it in your message it could have been pretty bad
@@vanillafella4893 does it matter? If the joke isn't for them, who cares?
Really doubt one joke's bad enough to deserve _a lifetime ban with no review date._ The whole "you're banned until I feel like dealing with you (never)" shtick is wrong. No wishy washy shit, just ban him a year and retry until he's reformed.
name the person. this community is not that large.
As much as I don't like Leffen because of his attitude towards other people and still think he needs to grow up. But what hax did was irresponsible, but an indefinite ban? When Leffen has attacked other people on Twitter over making tweets as minor as liking melee characters such as peach? It's just nuts to me how Leffen was banned and unbanned back in the day, but Hax isn't treated the same way.
Social popularity and demonizing over social media.
It's not an indefinite ban but a permanent ban because a year ago hax repeated many his claims that got him banned in the first place.
Bro got banned for making a video😭 that’s just crazy to me especially for so long
that was so unhinged it looked like hax was about to sh@@t up and school and doubled down for months wth more vids until he was banned while also being in several other unrelated controversies.
What he did was super silly and immature, but that’s it. The fact that there are literal predators in the scene and this man is still banned is crazy. Didn’t even know about this prior.
Hax has regularly defended one of those very predators, accusing Zero's victim of lying. Motherfucker should not be let back in.
Haxs has defended grooming.
@captaincrash9002 no he has not, you liar. He said the evidence was inconclusive at best and that he believes in due process. Stop.
@@sptflcrw8583 I have never interacted with the smash community and even I have heard of ZeRo for him being a groomer.
Haxs only says it's inconclusive because Leffen was against ZeRo. (I know that part, because I watched Haxs last harassment video from 3 month ago just now)
@captaincrash9002 he never once defends zero in his video. In fact, he explicitly says he thinks he doesn't have a place in the community. His issue was with Leffen spreading false accusations, it doesn't matter who they were against.
I'm honestly not surprised by this, since the Smash community has a tendency of attacking players with no valid reasons behind the attacks. People would make stuff up about Hungrybox all the time just because did they not like Puff. Now they suck up to him because he holds a lot of power in the community.
People are way too comfortable trying to dunk on others whenever they get the chance, it's pathetic. Especially when those kids are no better themselves, the bullying being the first proof.
The guy was not in a good headspace, was younger and harassed and that makes him a villain for life. Even after the ban is lifted, some idiots will still try to push their dumb narrative.
Hax$ deserves so much better.
I cannot believe that a figure who has been through as much controversy as Leffen hasn't gotten even a slap on the wrist. While someone who spoke out, albeit in a way which was far too passionate and not constructive, is banned forever for speaking out against it. These TO's may not have an in crowd. I cannot prove that they do. But I can say that their actions do nothing to disprove it. What absolutely abhorrent behavior. Low Tier God, a man who made fun of a disabled competitor in melee and has a clear and horrendous reputation to the point of meme status hasn't even received a permanent ban on the level of Hax$ from what I could tell based on my research. Obviously LTG isn't as entrenched in melee but I think that makes the situation even worse. You have a non repeat offender who clearly wants to be a part of a group which he helped foster but the current people in charge just don't like him so they get say in what goes.
To that end, I think this video is a great start. I also think that if you really wanted to make a statement, SimpleFlips. You should put some of the resources you have put to rom hacking competitions into an online melee tournament called like the Free Hax$ tourney or something. Show Hax$ some love and show that the community is not complacent to the whims of the current TO's who have continued to put their name on this embarrassment of moderation.
also them supporting pedos
Leffen hasn't been given a slap on the wrist? He was literally banned from the community?
"Leffen hasn't gotten even a slap on the wrist." Yes he did? He was banned for like, a year. Leffen hasn't really done much since then, and was forgiven by the community. Just because Hax$ doesn't deserve a punishment of this scale doesn't mean that he was right about Leffen. That's not fair either!
@@NZsaltz leffen buried all evidence of why he was banned for the first place and has only gotten worse since then.
leffen was actually banned from his scene and served his time without making a dozen videos comparing anyone to Hitler, so to say he "hasn't gotten even a slap on the wrist" is just a flat out lie.
I think there's two important conversations to have here. This comment will be very long, but I greatly appreciate anyone who takes the time to read it.
First, as you pointed out... What is he supposed to /do/, exactly? As a society, we're very quick to cast judgement and punishment on others, but we have very little forms of action/thought (both realistically, and emotionally) to judge what happens after. What is the point of punishing someone again? Is it purely to remove them from the equation permanently, or should punishment entail rehabilitation as well? And if the latter is true... then again, what is that person supposed to /do/? Shouldn't you at least give them some sort of instruction eventually? If you lay out a ban, give them the terms of what /not/ to do, but never what /to/ do, that ban may as well be permanent. You have no control over it other than wait for the vague idea that /maybe/ someone will... Well, you don't even know what, if anything.
I totally understand why he broke his silence on the matter. In his eyes, there was nothing he could do, things didn't seem to be moving forward, nothing he tried was working, so it's not as if he had anything to lose at that point. You can make the argument that the terms for (what then turned into) the permanent ban were written right there in the agreement, so he knew it would, or at least might, happen. But what was the alternative, exactly? Just stay silent forever, and... nothing? Maybe there was more happening behind the scenes that I, and even he, was not aware of. Maybe if he'd kept quiet for X number of months/years more he would've been fully unbanned. But without that knowledge, without that communication, that's kind of moot. You don't know they have your side, or will ever think of you again. You may as well hope for literally anything too, at that point. Maybe if he stayed silent they'd give him a million bucks too idk. Joking there of course, but the point is, you have no reason to trust they want to help at all.
Second, we absolutely need to have better conversations about mental health, and how it affects people, both in their behavior/reactions and their experience in life. I can't claim to know Hax's state of mind back then, or even now. But by his own admission, he was dealing with some severe problems that were affecting him in a very real way. I don't know if the schizophrenia comments were purely meant as a jab at his character (which is horrible by the way, don't ever do that! I have friends with schizoaffective disorder and it is not remotely okay to use that as an insult in any capacity, like why would you do that ???? I thought we moved past that with things like Autism already, geez...). But he mentioned trauma, and that realm of things is really no joke. It can really, really hurt you, in ways most people can't even imagine. It can turn your normal everyday into a waking nightmare you can never escape. Please have compassion, folks.
Of course, this doesn't mean you should excuse every action from someone dealing with mental illness. People's actions can and do have real consequences, and if you are hurting others then I absolutely agree some action needs to be taken to make sure that behavior ceases and people aren't being hurt or attacked anymore, full stop. But, what happens after that, once things have settled and returned back to normal? To purely judge someone by their (past) actions, and not take into account the extra difficulties they are facing related to that can be very cruel. To ostracize, and exclude someone because of mental illness is even more cruel. So yes, hold people responsible for their actions, but also give them room to breathe, apologize, and grow afterwards. Otherwise, what's the point? That just turns everything into this exclusive club where you point fingers to remove people, and no one can get back in. And trust me; *Everyone* has made some bad mistake in their life. I think there's a lot of folks out there that project their fear of being exposed onto others, and turn them into scapegoats... but perhaps that's a different conversation for a different day.
Anyways, thank you for making this video, Simple. I could hear the emotion in your voice, especially near the end there. I hear that you recognize something has gone wrong here, in a community that you are a part of and care deeply about. Not just the people on top, but *everyone*. I sincerely hope that this video leads to a better, healthier exploration of what happened before, what happens after, and the other surrounding topics (including the ones I touched on). We all have a lot to improve on here.
Yes, communication is the most important. You can’t just punish people without communicating with them, tf?
I think what he was supposed to do (from the people dictating the ban) was to leave the community or quietly sit in the corner forever and allow them total control of the narrative with no indication that this would actually lead to being unbanned at some point (it wouldn't).
It's pretty clear to me that the goal was ostracization without responsibility for it. There's just no other good reason for such a loosey goosey approach to such a heavy and long term punishment that was obviously a boiler.
@@conor9966 that's ridiculous. he shouldn't leave a community for being bullied for a decade. go fuck yourself.
@@riahlexington except they did communicate with Hax. One of the major TO's is a person friend for his and spent of lot of time working with him, being the reason hax was partially unbanned. Then that same guy said he regretted unbanned hax because of hs behavior.
@@conor9966 Hax was literally partially unbanned for almost a year attending many majors and regionals. He was going to get unbanned if he didn't make another attack video.
I've been following the hax$ situation for a while. And it's crazy to see someone finally bring the injustice to light. I've always felt like the smash community plays favorites and is unfair in the way they uphold rules. Hope more people talk about this moving forward.
Smash community aka Mang0 nation playing favorites? No way!
Only commenting because you genuinely asked the audience their opinion. Correct me if I'm wrong cause I'm going purely by memory; it's hard to double check everything when there's hours of deleted footage and posts.
IMO the NYC Melee ban terms were fair. Whenever Hax would mention Leffen in any sense, I'd see straight up detailed death threats in Leffen's replies on Twitter. While Hax doesn't control his audience, his followers were very aggressive since the beginning, and he should be cautious of what he puts out. That's why I feel the terms to not bring up Leffen were valid.
It is unfair, however, that the NYC Melee terms had no end timeline, which seemed to bait Hax into the new approach that got him permabanned.
You didn't mention this in the video, but in his latest apology video after the permaban, he even mentioned that some earlier apologies were lies in order to appease the TOs. That makes me severely lose trust in Hax, and is a big part in my feelings now of whether he deserves an unban.
bringing up internet mobs has never been and never will be a valid reason for censorship
[EDIT]
never mind hax never meant a word of anything he said lmao he can stay gone sorry for having ever believed a word he said
Leffen has literally called for his audience to harrass others before. It's a blatant double standard. And what else is he supposed to do? He's forced to accept any abusive, unfair agreement they give him as otherwise he'll just be "indefinitely" banned.
@@Fish-cj4ub if you can only view this situation in terms of "censorship" u have a really narrow perspective. i don't hate aziz. i think very few people genuinely do. i'm not a Leffen Fanboy or anything but i want people who really hate him to acknowledge that keeping this thing going and painting him as the villain in return only serves to stoke the embers on a fire most everyone involved wants to put out at this point. but that's what this mob is after and for the longest time aziz basically did nothing to distance himself from them, did nothing but feed into the narrative they pushed, and only ever encouraged their actions by doubling down with his videos. --hes only in recent times made full acknowledgement of this aspect of things and i respect him for that.-- i dont want the name Hax$ used as the crux of some ridiculous culture war --and i think he's done with that too-- [edit] nope he went back on that too
@@armorparade youre calling my perspective narrow because youre selfabsorbed in your own parasocial relationships on the internet. people have no control over the actions of other people on the internet, youre just playing a blame game.
Hax$ is a legend that really pushed his tech game to insane levels. The severity of the ban is ridiculous. What else does he have to do to prove himself? Doing nothing controversial in his whole ban period, and he’s rewarded with a permanent ban? Insane. Appreciate you using your platform to speak on this.
I've been involved in the Melee scene for over a decade now, having watched Leffen's rise and his attitudes toward some people in the scene. The most infamous one was with Chillin and was resolved at Apex 2015, but this one with Hax really pressed on for a long time. I certainly remember when Hax released the videos about Leffen, the whole community thought he was losing it and he was in my social media trendings for a few days during the aftermath. It was a big thing, and yeah, Hax's ban was warranted at the time. His videos let on that something was not right with him at the time, and there were people that weren't involved with either him or Leffen that didn't feel safe around him.
As the years have gone on, I've seen Hax try to rectify his public image and atone for what he's caused from the intense rivalry with Leffen. It's fallen on a lot of deaf ears, and people respond to his apologies in the same way they responded to the outburst from a few years back. Hax and Leffen might have grown physically, mentally, and emotionally from this, but the Melee community still hasn't. It's been long enough to where he needs either the unban to happen properly, or some kind of agreed-upon end date that involves discussion between him, folks and TOs from his scene, and TOs that run regionals. For someone that's been so important to Melee's history, he's been thrown out and left to rot with no consideration for how he's grown the past few years. At least do him the service of a proper end date.
you are missing some key if on this. hax was partially unbanned for about a year, then about a year ago hax recanted some of his apologies and restated his claims that got him banned in the first place, while he agreed to not do so. Hax has aa perma ban now. not indefinite.
Every time I read about Hax$ the story makes me so sad, like he's just a guy who made the mistake of trying to speak out when he was in a bad place and by doing so said things in a way he shouldn't have, it's obvious he's genuinely sorry for what he said, yet the TOs still won't do shit for him. It feels so unjust, I hope this video reaches the ears of the TOs.
hax was partially unbanned about a year ago hax recanted some of his apologies and restated his claims that got him banned in the first place, while he agreed to not do so.
You have done an astonishing job portraying the injustice done upon hax with this video. I truly feel your pain and his pain when you speak. This would be akin to you being banned from playing Mario Maker or Mario 64 because of XYZ. It is so unfair and it is so unjust and I cannot fathom why anyone would think that this is okay.
Huge respect for speaking up about this. Unfortunately I don't think Leffen's TO's will listen to any reasoning. The scene will have to implode before it starts getting better. That's why the Big House being cancelled is good news!
One thing you didn't cover was his second 2024 Video, "The Truth", which is essentially Evidence.zip4. It does remove a lot of the most agredious claims from the original videos, but it is still definitely a hit piece on Leffen to some extent.
I think that's the main reason behind his ban being made permanent. I would understand if they extended his indefinite ban over it, but going full permanent is too much imo.
Is it a hit piece if everything in the video is true?
@@sptflcrw8583 That leffen runs the smash deep state?
Well said lawyerflips
I just feel like I have been gaslit by the smash community. You're supposed to make me believe Hax poses an actual physical threat just because he made some outlandish comparisons to Hitler and the dark triad when discussing Leffen's REAL and DAMAGING behaviour towards others. It doesn't take a genius to realise that Hax made these wild comparisons due to the distress caused to him by leffen.
To twist that and make people believe Hax is a threat to other people's safety is disgusting. The borderline worship of leffen by TO's and other prominent members of the community is very telling too.
Unban Hax now.
It's not about being a threat, you can read in detail all of the bans if you search them, as I recall things the main point was reiterated harassment, wich all 3 videos have done (the last one more on a technical sense, since it mostly tries to defend the spirit of the first ones which I can see it as harassing), that coupled with the fans that deny any wrongdoing from hax (other than his apologies, since some think that by apologizing he is helping out Leffen). he really needed to be banned for the 1st year atleast, 2 year was way too much IMO and having him in limbo for more than 2.5 would make any passionate person go crazy (or just leave, but hax wasn't about that, sadly).
@@math8755 nope.
Criticism isn't harassment. He criticized Leff. He didn't harass him, at all. Period.
Any attempt to try and paint critique or derision as "harassment" in an attempt to moralize and pearl-clutch is just crybully nonsense.
@@Eye_Of_Odin978 comparing someone unironically to Hitler and stallin on the same piece of criticism is considered by many a step too far from criticism, and the multiple (and in many cases such as the "red Adidas pants" completely not needed and unverifiable) attacks to leffen persona. I think Hax correctly calls out that leffen was an absolute asshole as a teenager, and on his late teen continued to be mean and careless, but he shouldn't have assumed and conjured theories to say that he was still all that in 2021. he really should have let go, which I know from his POV it might been sucky but Hax pushed it too far and tripled down on it. I say it Just so that he really moves on from leffen, and any of his fans that still clíng on to evidence.zip2 (for Hax sake).
@@math8755 funnily enough leffen proved that he was still a terrible person in 2021 when he committed perjury in the court case between ZeRo and Jisu. He signed his name supporting the false allegations against ZeRo, the ones about looking at hentai with Japanese players, and abusing Vanessa, ZeRo's gf now wife.
@@BMAjoeA I'm not defending Leffen, I think he has gotten way lees problems for his wrongdoings than he deserves, especially when compared to how harsh Hax got it, I'm Just saying that Hax ain't a Saint and I'm glad he acknowlegdes that in this video. could you explain with some detail, maybe some sources on the perjury he did? he couldn't have been a witness I'm sure so not really sure what kind of judicial procedure he participated in.
I think this video is a little reckless. Hax's apologies don't really get to the heart of the issue (let's not pretend his 4 hour hit piece on Leffen isn't insane) and don't make me feel like he understands what made those videos so awful.
Even if you were brush aside those videos, there are other behaviors (like defending ZeRo for instance) that should not be forgotten.
I understand this video is made as an appeal to Melee TOs, but you are also using your platform in front of an audience not familiar with Smash and are going to not understand the full picture of what is happening, and this video already has errors communicating what exactly went down.
Also, lastly, I don't think someone's contributions to a scene makes them justified to be in that scene. In no way is anyone entitled to any particular scene, regardless of their contribution.
100% agreed with your final two paragraphs. The first two I can't comment on as I'm one of the people who is too far distanced from any of this to have a fully informed opinion, but I appreciation you sharing this information.
Oh he defended ZeRo? Didn't know about that, that sours my opinion on him a LOT.
The more I read the more I lean towards the "maybe we don't want him back actually" camp.
Won't lie, I did not watch any of the videos he made for more than 12 seconds because I am terminally online but not THAT terminally online.
I knew a lot more about this when it went down but that was years ago so my memory's totally gone lmao
This video does have a lot of things that at first glance seem okay but when you think about them don't really pass the sniff test though.
@@TrainerPlatinumSinnoh You are being told misinformation. Hax does not think ZeRo has a place within the community, and only defended him against allegations that are verifiably false. The only reason why he did that was because Leffen was the one who originated those lies, and it was in service of strengthening his overall point that Leffen is a manipulator. ZeRo obviously had other allegations that were credible, but just because someone is guilty of something, doesn't mean they're guilty of everything.
You're a liar. Hax has never once made a hit piece on Leffen, and he has never defended Zero.
@@sptflcrw8583 You don't even have to necessarily agree with me, but denying the hit piece which is acknowledged in the video and the first part of it is in the description is baffling to me. You can find evidence zip 2 and 3 on RUclips extremely easily. Also, he blamed Zero's accusations on the Me Too movement on his video named The Truth which is also easy to find.
Even if they made everything up, even if they would do this a second time and even if banning someone from tournaments for something they did outside of those tournaments was justifiable, the fact that they are denied any second chance while being coerced into shutting up about it and punishing them for trying to clear things up is just straight up disgusting bullying. Unless there is some crazy shit going on behind the scenes, a quick glance at their twitter shows that they are at the very least trying to seek dialogue and mediation on the issue and if the TOs really just straight up ignore all of that, they are absolutely mishandling this matter.
He literaly was given a Second chance by NYC melee he had to do 4 things which surmounted to don't post about it and he couldn't even last to the deadline
@@wingedfish1175 Major TOs were not giving him answers and Hax was kept in limbo. He wouldnt have made that video if he wasnt in further distress regarding his future. He was trying to explain why he did what he did because he was trying to show why he should be unbanned. If he wasnt able to talk about it, TOs needed to be more upfront with him. They were basically keeping him in limbo for an indefinite amount of time. They werent making any steps moving forward and hax was put in a position where he needed to address the topic to discuss getting unbanned.
@@wingedfish1175which was a blatant abuse of power. Why shouldn't he be allowed to defend himself? No other player has to follow such stipulations. Its bullying and an abuse of power.
@@wingedfish1175 Is there a reason you are throwing around nonsense in everyone's comments? Go away if this is all you are going to do.
@@wingedfish1175 What deadline? It's an indefinite ban. By definition there is no definite end to the ban.
For my two cents that I hope you'll consider Simple: I believe that if people do something harmful, but then genuinely do change for the better, then they should be given a second chance. I haven't kept up with the full situation over the years, but if Hax sincerely apologized and has acted better, his bans should not be permanent; if he has continued to repeat past mistakes and be harmful to others, he should not. Regardless of if he has improved or not, the terms of staying unbanned being never appealing the ban or even appealing the ban on any social media is ridiculous. Not being able to defend yourself like that is not a fair punishment in my opinion.
However, a lot of this video really rubbed me the wrong way. A lot of this video emphasized again and again his talent, contributions to the game, and dedication. I don't know if it was your intention, but at some points it seemed to imply that those were reasons to consider unbanning him. Respectfully, level of talent should not affect how the rules are applied to a player at all. It doesn't matter if he's the best player to ever live or the worst, the rules should be the same regardless of talent. Again, not sure if you were directly saying that but it seemed to be implied at times. If anything, implying that talent can lessen someone's punishment really weakens the case. You mentioned wanting to start a discussion and for people to form their own opinions, so that's just something worth considering.
I think he was mentioning that in addition to deserving a second chance. Like he not only was being banned unreasonably but he ALSO was a major important person to the community which makes it even worse.
@@polocatfanHax being amazingly skilled at Melee will make a ban more regrettable if it's found to be unjustified, but that skill cannot be allowed to affect the required levels of justification for enacting/maintaining bans, or it at least cannot be allowed to increase those required levels of justification. otherwise, we get top player immunity. whether expectations for conduct should increase as players rise to the top is a debate unto itself.
@@bb010g "Hax being amazingly skilled at Melee will make a ban more regrettable if it's found to be unjustified" yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying dude. he's saying it's not ONLY unjustified, but it's also being done against a player who has done a lot for the community. It's not an excuse for misbehavior, but the guy misbehaved and has very much paid for his crime and yet he's still banned and they're still using stuff he helped make/find despite calling him a horrible person.
This whole thing has just been a prime-example of how the melee scene runs off of elitism and people forming cliques around top personalities. Completely killed any interest in ever associating myself with such a scene
that's the main issue with apologizing after you have done something major. people just don't want to forgive you, you can ask them what they would want to actually hear from the apologies and have no response. it's impossible to make up for the actions you have taken when you aren't given a chance. how is he meant to prove he's left it behind him if everyone's refusing to allow him too
I think you are leaving out some important things and are portraying this situation inacurrately as a result.
1. He made the initial video, deleted it after receiving backlash, and then basically made the same video again just without the Hitler comparisons. When people told him that he is causing harm and that the majority of people just do not agree with his conclusion to the premises, he then chose to basically make the same video a third time, believing that only HOW he said things was the issue, not WHAT he was saying.
2. He then made his August 2021 ban appeal, once again restating that he should be unbanned because he is right, not because he understands what he did wrong. Once again bringing up the same accusations and demanding a ban.
3. His actual apologies that started coming in starting in September 2021 all ended up being DELETED, and he ended up doubling down on the topic multiple times throughout the years. An apology is good, but then deleting the apology and doing the same thing again makes the apology absolutely meaningless.
4. His January 2024 Unban Appeal brought up Leffen and what Hax thought Leffen did wrong -again-. From talking to NYC Melee community members, they all said "if he had just asked "what's my ban status looking like", things would have been cool". Instead he brings up Leffen and his perceived wrongdoings again, and one week later he makes his video called "The Truth" in which he AGAIN explains exactly what Leffen did from his point of view and why Hax's actions were justified as a result. No signs of improvement or remorse at all.
I feel like leaving out the harmful part of his videos and the fact that he repeated these things over and over again while also deleting the apologies each time before making another video paints a very different picture from what actually happened. Though I am sure you are doing this out of compassion and not out of malice. I agree that Hax is not a dangerous person to be around at IRL events, and that he deserves to be unbanned at some point. But calling for an immediate unban less than 5 months after he repeated the same mistake again is, in my opinion, not the way to go about it.
I also think that bringing up his contributions to the scene and his skill as a player is irrelevant. If anything it just makes what he did worse since he did it with a larger platform, and being good at the game or having created mods for the game is not something that should influence whether you are banned or not.
His most recent apology is great, and I and many others applauded him for it. I hope he keeps it up, and I think that supporting him in his journey rather than calling for an immediate unban is the way to go from here.
How is what he did different from the daily posts Leffen puts on Twitter? What about the diss-tracks that used to be made when top players had beef?
Hax was being harassed in person for years, and it drove him to reach out to the community for support to remove the problem. YOU all decided to ostracized and punish Hax for doing so, rather than actually solving the problem
Love simple but idk why he didnt bring up the truth video if he agrees the first set of videos are bad wouldn't he also agree that The Truth is equally as malicious I don't like assuming things about a person and I thought hax ban is a bit much but there is an obsession here beyond simply wanting to play melee
I think all that would have more weight if there wasn't already a history of people in the Smash scene playing favorites. If this had been about Hbox or whoever instead of Leffen, would Hax have gotten banned in the first place? I know Hbox was nearly bullied out of playing entirely, I believe due to Leffen actually. An evidence. zip about Hbox would've been applauded by you guys. Meanwhile Leffen to my knowledge has never once received discipline for any of the shit he's done over the years. I think Hax is justified in having a bone to pick with Leffen
@@grunkleg.29691Correction, Leffen was only disciplined once with a temp ban and that was only after Armada spent like a year getting dirt on him. It's amazing how shielded he is by this community.
@@e102omegas "The Truth" was 100% accurate and objective
I am not here to argue for or against the current state of the ban, but I do have some comments I would like to add to various points in this video:
1:00 - "Hax was a teenager and Leffen was a teenager" - This has nothing to do with their beef as teenagers and completely mischaracterizes what actually happend. The ban was for something Hax did at the age of 26 years old: he created an organized hate compaign that was designed to convince the Melee community that Leffen was a terrible human being.
9:09 - Hax "developing the boxx controller" involved him stealing the idea from Hitbox after they graciously brought him in to privately test and refine their own buttons-only fighting game controller so it could be the best version of itself. The CEO said working with Hax was terrible, that Hax was incredibly rude and arrogant, that he regretted ever bringing him into the project, and that Hax stole their controller design to create and release the boxx. I can't find the video, but it is on RUclips somewhere (or archived if the video was taken down)
10:13 - "we have seen many other competitors do the same thing" - Have we really seen other competitors make a 2-hour hit piece on someone else's character in an attempt to ostracize them from the community? It was character assassination to the highest degree.
10:41 - "Completely attacking his character" - Are you referring to Smashboards posts? Genuinely curious what was said here and if it was anything remotely comparable.
12:56 - "Leffen and Hax were teenagers" - Again, the ban has nothing to do with what happened while they were teenagers. This is about what Hax did when he was 26 years old.
You also should have added that Hax had an experimental surgery done to remove a massive amount of a tendon from his wrist to let him continue playing Melee. The guy his as hardcore as it gets.
Thanks for your comment. In particular, the 9:09 point is fascinating. I've read other comments about this, but this is the first I've heard about The Hitbox CEO's comments on working with Hax$.
More and more it seems like Simple left out absolutely crucial details, and it gets harder to believe that they were not deliberate omissions to make the objective of this video more sympathetic.
@@Andrew.A. It was pretty insane to watch. It was a series of RUclips videos going back and forth. Hax would post a video explaining his side, then the CEO would make a video back, then Hax again. The quote that I never forgot was the CEO saying something along the lines of "Hax sees himself as a pot of gold that fell from the sky into the Hitbox team's lap" and he said this with tons of body language and emotion lol. You could tell he was in genuine shock at how much working with Hax had destroyed his Smash Bros controller project.
From Hax's responses, it was obvious he had no concerns with the ethics (or even legal consequences) of his actions. His goal was to make his version of the perfect button-controller and that was simply how it was going to be. My only guess as to why a lawsuit never happened was because Hitbox didn't think it was worth the financial investment.
Beyond the scope of this video, Hax has also done just generally awful things to even his own fans. There used to be a huge pros-only tournament for Smash Bros called The Big House where fans of pro players would spend real money to vote in their player to compete with the top of the top in a multi-day tournament/event. Every year, all the Twitch streams would turn into pseudo political campaigns for a couple weeks leading up to the event and was super fun to watch. Hax's strategy to get votes one year was to tell everyone "If I get voted in, I will play my old main, Captain Falcon, at The Big House!" He did not add any conditions to this statement. He knew people expected him to use Captain Falcon to try to beat the best players in the tournament. This got the community excited (including me) since Hax was one of the OG Captain Falcon players. His fans spent literally tens of thousands of dollars and voted him in. Once he secured the spot, he informed everyone he would be playing Fox in the tournament instead. He didn't apologize. He didn't express remorse. The plan from the beginning was to abuse his fans' nostalgia to get votes so he could rug pull them and play the best character in the game to try to win the tournament.
@@shadoninja holy shit, do you have a source on that last bit? Not doubting you or anything, but that's just beyond evil if true.
@@MrNapkino I've literally never heard about that and haven't seen anybody else talking about it, but you can trust me bro
@@sleepdeep305 nah I looked into it and it's real, that's why he has the video "picking up captain falcon" on his youtube channel (he baited everyone with the "technically I didn't lie" type joke lol). Saw some old reddit threads with no shortage of people talking about it/being mad about it as well, it's legit.
it really bothers me that hax is still suffering from essentially calling out his lifelong bully for trying to take-down his livelihood/product that helps those play with hand injuries. is clout really that powerful? can an injustice this grand really be enforced by people who think themselves morally sound?
Well said Mr. Flip Man sir, I agree with all of your points and I'm glad someone with a larger following finally had the balls to come out and say all these things.
Some of this video is a little slanted imo. A few of the apology videos weren't just apology videos, there was backslash to them because the form the apology took was a focus around being sorry that he couldn't explain himself better, not that he did something wrong regarding Leffen. Apologizing and acknowledging your actions are two different things. Being able to acknowledge your harmful actions is crucial because it displays that you have the basic capability to not engage in those actions again.
This video treats apologies as like a stat that you build up and once you hit a high enough threshold of remorse you should be forgiven. The more significant way of looking at an apology is that it shows understanding of which actions and behaviors need to change.
The issue with Hax showing understanding is that apologizing and then sliding back into old behaviors was a common pattern. In fact I think at the start of this year the feeling in the Melee scene was that he likely would be unbanned soon, but then he came out with this video in which he engaged with all the same behaviors he had already apologized for and promised that he would change. ruclips.net/video/WSXS0YOHfzY/видео.html
The framing of Hax being silenced is dubious to me since in this specific instance the issue at hand is that someone is spreading a hate campaign online agaisnt another player, and often he does this by using his own "unfair" ban and corruption within the community as a launching pad to pursue that goal. So of course the stipulations around his ban would be based around not further spreading those ideas.
Also the repeated emphasis of his talent is suspect to me. If anything I think the opposite tone to the one in this video should be taken. We should ignore an individual's talent when it comes to right and wrong. This video emphasizes his "once in a generation skill" to such a degree that it comes across like we owe Hax special privileges because he happens to be good at the game.
guy was bullied for a decade.
Hax has never encouraged hate or harassment against leffen
@@sptflcrw8583 Hax himself has admitted that the multiple videos he made constitute harassment
@@dominod5640 hax has been gaslit by morons and bad faith actors. Nothing he said was wrong.
@@dominod5640 yea Hax was wrong about that part
Tbh I agree with you on the fact that the punishment is too severe.
However, I feel like talking about his past achievements/influence on the community/metagame is a really weak angle. It shouldn’t matter if he’s a god at the game, or if he was permanently stuck in the lowest tournament seedlings. Like, the fact that he’s good at melee shouldn’t have an effect either way. It feels like that can lead to more injustices down the road. And where do you draw the line? If he was a nobody then it’d be fine to have him perma banned?
Again, I think your plea is just, from what you’ve said about the situation (I’m not up to date outside of this video). But yeah.
Edit if anyone cares: so apparently he released a newer video (the truth) and according to others in the comments, he doubles down on a lot of negativity, and also brushes off Zero’s awful crap and stuff? If so, that’s not really on.
I’d have expected better from Simple. That’s unfortunate.
That's not at all what the video was about. The point of the video wasn't to exonerate Zero, it was to point out the fact that Leffen intentionally spread false allegations despite knowing they were false, which is extremely shitty no matter who they're directed towards. Leffen absolutely deserved to be called out.
@@sptflcrw8583it’s been a while since the whole incident blew up, but what exactly did he falsify about Zero? I don’t remember all the details but there’s a reason Zero was pushed from the community. The Jisu stuff too, she wasn’t the most reliable narrator but afaik she was still wronged and had the right to talk about things. That’s not even getting into the sky williams and d1 shit which was repulsive.
@hellopuppykillz123 zero deserved to be pushed from the community, but that doesn't mean it's OK to intentionally spread false allegations. They claimed he showed hentai to minors despite knowing full well such a thing never happened. Jisu was never wronged, she's a total scumbag who should have no place in any community.
@@hellopuppykillz123 he claimed he showed hentai to minors, despite knowing that wasn't true. Zero and Jisu never even interacted, she's a scumbag who has no place in any community
@@hellopuppykillz123 he was making accusations of zero showing minors porn material and other shit. they were confirmed false when the players that lef mentioned that this happened to came out and said that that shit never happened. really just made leff look like a attention whore and i lost what little respect i had for the dude since then. now this is not defending the shit that zero actually did cause fuck that he is a freak. but lying is lying and that shit is childish mentally stunted behavior
Instead of being a proffessional organization, this ban was made indefinite so that they could just leave it as is and keep the ban in effect for as long as they really want which seems forever. The terms of the NYC ban was made in a way that the contract could be easily broken to quickly reinstate the ban and be pointed to as why to say the 'indefinite' ban is good as a permanent ban.
Honestly, everyone who signed off on the ban should be embarrassed that they strung Hax along like this. It is disrespectful to not even put down that the indefinite ban would be reviewed after a certain amount of time or allow for appeal
How did you do at your last melee local?
@@FranzoOnLine how did you do at your last shower?
@@FranzoOnLine Posting this comment dozens of times just makes you look nuts.
@@FranzoOnLine you're using your alt, buddy.
@@FranzoOnLine why haven't you asked mew2king this? He commented on this video in defense of Hax.
Thank you so much for making this video and speaking out about his abuse. He should NOT be banned for life
And the ssbm reddit has deleted the post of this video. Nice to see a great open dialogue!
As someone not in the Melee community and who has become aware of the unban Hax$ movement about a year ago I have huge respect that you would stick your head out for your fellow man like this. I hope this video won't fall on deaf ears, because a lifetime ban for a disagreement with Leffen of all people seems like way too harsh of a punishment.
I don't like Leffen. He's a toxic figure in every community he touches. He's a slightly milder LTG with enough game skill to justify his rude behavior to a sizable enough audience that he consistently avoids punitive action.
I don't like Hax$. Drama has a tendency to condensate around him. He allows his opinions to polarize unchecked, assumes his opinions are truths, and inevitably winds up insisting upon his perspective as an absolute truth at the wrong time.
I've been in toxic communities before. I've seen the way group dynamics and personal immaturity absolutely ruin people's mental states. I've seen otherwise great people driven to do things they personally believe immoral in an attempt to hurt someone else who they believe deserves it. A lot of the time, they justify it to themselves by pointing out that their target is a toxic figure and the community would be best off without them.
I've also seen people change. Two, three years away fron a community allows a victim of a toxic community an opportunity to process the trauma and come back with a clear head and changed mindset.
In my opinion, it may be more healing for Hax$ to move on. If he wishes to return, though, I believe TOs should lift his ban. Three years and the immense social consequences is already reasonable punishment for his choices, as well as plenty of time for him to have personally grown.
This is a very fair assumption and non-biased comment, perfectly worded
We need more of you out there in the world
I feel I need to extend an olive branch to people who are couching their arguments in the proposition that Hax$'s treatment is unfair relative to the lack of action against the alleged abusive behavior of Leffen.
I respect and agree with the notion that such consequences as described in this video should be applied equally.
However, even if the rules are not being applied equally, there still seems to be cause for concern. The more I read the comments here, the more stories I hear about Hax$ that suggest Simple's video omits crucial details of his more recent behavior.
If what you say about Hax$ is true then it is a bit worrying that Simple may have been pulled into the orbit of somebody who generates drama. That's not good for Simple's mental health, and I hope he can do whatever is best for himself in this situation. Even if I fail to foresee what that might be.
Honestly I think hax should get unbanned and then move on. It's the principle of the thing.
Simplefilps. I never thought I could respect you more than I already did. You proved me wrong.
Disclaimer, not involved in smash at all. Have never watched smash tournaments or SimpleFlips content. This video just randomly came up in my feed
While Hax$ does seem to be a sympathetic figure, he really shot himself in the foot by first accepting and then breaking his conditional agreement to be unbanned in NY. Seems like all he had to do was to keep his head down and he would have been slowly allowed back to smash tournaments, but he tried to rush it and paid the price.
Meanwhile Nairo still have fans and get constant praises. Because somehow people love ignoring the fact that he slept with an underage individual.
Bias is strong in the Smash Community
it took Tecnichals literally protesting at their fucking tournaments before they even officially banned Nairo lmfao. Smash community isn't beating the allegations 😭
@@DarkAuraLord they never beating the allegations 😂😂
Hax$ has actually defended ZeRo as recently as 3 months ago.
@@captaincrash9002Where's your source? And what does that have to do with the comment?
Nairo has not been part of this community for years yet you pretend he is actively competing.
I don't know anything about this guy im just here to watch mario vids.
i gotta say that your argument here is one i am sympathetic to. i generally don't like it when people aren't allowed reconciliation and rehabilitation. idk who this hax dude is or what he really did and I ain't gonna watch no four hours of video to find out, but it sounds like he's gotten a raw deal off a mistake he made when he was young and stupid.
on the other hand, though, i am always skeptical of this sort of thing where i am suddenly introduced to a controversy from one side only. i would be very curious to hear what these TOs say about why they think he still deserves to be banned. they may have more reason behind their decision than you portray here. unsurprisingly most of the comments i've skimmed through here have been positive; if there is anyone reading this who disagrees with simpleflips and can give me a 1-2 paragraph summary of why, i'd hella appreciate it.
I left a comment but I think RUclips shadow sniped it because of a no-no word
I'm not involved in the Melee community but I've followed the situation a bit and have a few pointers, specifically things Simple left out of his video:
1. Hax$ made two additional long-form videos on top of the two Simple brings up: evidence 3 and The Truth (both of which are more recent than evidence 2 and contain further grounds to justify his ban.
2. In the appeal Simple mentions where Hax$ "justifies" the videos he made, he attacks yet another member of the Smash community for calling out the behavior of a known s** pest and p***phile formerly in the community (Zer0).
3. Somewhat recently, Hax$ had deleted his apology videos and uploaded The Truth, in which he doubles down on the claims he made years ago and states that he still holds malice towards Leffen and his apologies were not genuine, just attempts to reenter the Melee scene.
The TOs that handle admittance to Smash tourneys are often unpaid volunteers who work with other unpaid volunteers and have to determine whether it's worth the potential drama to allow Hax$ into their spaces on the off-chance that *this* time, Hax$ really does mean his apology. I feel it was disingenuous for Simple to leave out this context, even if he and Hax$ are friends.
I'm not disagreeing with simpleflips, but I will say there are some omissions in this video that help paint hax in a better light. The videos that Hax posted (now deleted) which resulted in his indefinite ban becoming a permaban were kind of doubling down on his original videos. I think hax likely didn't intend for them to come off that way, he essentially wanted to try and explain the events that pushed him to make the original evidence.zip. For many people it came off as him doubling down and defending evidence.zip, and it seemed like a regression for him and evidence of why his ban should be upheld. Basically there's a fine line between defending your past actions and simply explaining them, and I think for much of the community those videos came off as him defending when he was intending to explain. Note that these videos were very recent as well.
On top of this, Hax has posted apologies to Leffen in the past and subsequently deleted them. He has also stated that some of his past apologies were insincere and just an attempt to get unbanned, which of course makes people wary of his intentions and his more recent apologies.
That being said his most recent apologies are some of the most self aware and coherent videos he's ever posted on the subject. I do think he's sincere about making progress and putting this behind him, but he has also shot himself in the foot more than a few times along the way and much of the community seems to be tired of it and unwilling to give him any more chances.
@@chickenswallow Interesting; thanks for the info.
I do appreciate you speaking up on this. One point I don't share agreement with you on though is the whole 'moderating what people say' part as a TO. While you can't control what people do with their own personal accounts and social media presences, if people are up to questionable things and the trail of that known knowledge comes from their tweets, videos, or streams... sometimes things must be done to ensure the venue and event have a welcoming atmosphere. While Hax$ has a different situation of severity compared to known discriminatory figures, abusers, and other types of severe social or even lawful infractions. The same kind of thinking still applies. However...
I DO think the heavy-handed approach they took to Hax's unbanning was fucked up. And the way it completely has shaped public perception of the guy from folks who have no real idea about these specifics has completely ruined everything for him. And the January incident was just as excessive. I don't think he should've been permabanned obviously. Just extending the ban for some amount of months - an extra year would've been fine enough. The last thing I'll say is that the "right punishment" should depend on the content of said video. Hax$ didn't receive a completely fair shake. And over time, it has just become worse.
I think you misunderstand the point. Obviously spreading hate and encouraging harassment isn't ok. But merely acknowledging the fact that something exists and defending yourself from accusations isn't that.
If what you say is true, why is Leffen a free man in the eyes of Melee? I can list dozens more names and the point stays the same, either this molehill is actually a mountain, of they need to start handing permabans out like candy.
Power tripping TOs have destroyed melee’s scene and made it much less “welcoming”
Considering that Leffen has basically soft retired at this point, I see absolutely no reason to not let him back in
Especially considering Leffen himself is guilty of significantly worse on several occations, and yet isnt permanently banned.
This is such flawed reasoning. Either Hax's actions are or aren't excusable.
That's not how that works? It's not about leffen? He could've done a video about anybody it's not the target that was the issues
@@Xarenth so if anybody does anything bad ever there is no path to redemption? So we should execute criminals for any minor infraction? i dont understand
@@Xarenth I see what you're saying, but I mean he made a pretty tasteless video essay 2 years ago that he has apologized for multiple times now. It didn't really damage Leffens reputation in any way. I figured the main thing holding him back from being unbanned was tensions between him and Leffen being at the same tournament. I mean unless I have missed something, Again I still see no reason why he should still be banned.
Its absolute bullshit that a few people can decide that Hax's life work, social life, and main source of income should disappear over night just because he has beef and was provoked by a known shit stirring individual.
I want you to imagine for a second that someone you dislike snapped their fingers and instantly took away your job, your life passion, and all of your main social activities. Then you were told after 2 years you were allowed to come to some events, sometimes, depending on how a group of random self righteous assholes felt that morning. Oh and youre also not even going to be allowed that little privilege if you ever dare speak up about you were bullied. It would make anyone go crazy. I stand with Hax
He needs to stay banned. What else would someone have to do to earn a lifetime ban?
Simple sticking up for Hax$ was not what I was expecting to happen. Crazy.
Too bad the Smash community (read: the powertripping TOs) still won't care, unfortunately.
How did you do at your last Melee local?
@@alexanderbateman5581 Placed third, vod is still up on GBA Smash X Tekken League (YT channel). You don't have to play Melee to know the community is beyond f*cked btw
@@alexanderbateman5581 Someone made the point earlier that all the hax$ haters do is try to find other things to make fun of them about eg; stalk their twitter, make fun of them for following alt-right pages etc. Thanks for proving that point Bateman.
@@alexanderbateman5581 lol
@@fujster do you think making fun of someone for being alt-right is bad?
Simple, I like you and I also believe Hax$ should have been unbanned, but I think you missed quite a bit of what actually happened. I'll begin by saying that Hax wasn't banned from NYC due to another apology video". The video released was him going back into his old ways. Citing the head TO from NYC: "The latest video was a definite backslide from his previous one. A vast majority of it was focused on Leffen, and also unsealed private documents, plus revealing full legal names of the people who wrote the transcripts. He released these testimonies without permission, and also unlisted or deleted previous videos where he had apologized to Leffen."
Then he released ANOTHER video called "The Truth" where he went back to trying to expose Leffen. He deleted it shortly after but it is archived here: ruclips.net/video/WSXS0YOHfzY/видео.html
He went and showed he was going to keep this up and do exactly what he previously apologized for. It's important to note that this video which you failed to mention essentially rendered all of his previous apologies void. It also should be mentioned that his original apology videos were not about apologizing for what he did, but apologizing for not getting his point across better.
Also you keep harping on Hax's skills in the game and contributions to the community which I agree, he is undeniably good at the game and has contributed a lot, but isn't that a constant argument against Leffen as well? (Leffen only gets away with everything because he is good at the game.) I think that's a pretty weak way to make an argument.
There are parts I agreed with and before the whole NYC banning I was in favour of Hax's unbanning, and I think it's undeniable that Leffen has shown poor behaviour for many years. I do think Leffen should have been banned for his behaviour towards Hbox a number of years ago. Not to say Hbox didn't provoke a lot of it or to imply he wasn't a pretty awful person back then, but leading a hate campaign like that should be disciplined. I think that was before the CoC was actually made/enforced though.
Obviously the NYC shitheads are going to claim Haz$'s video was bad, do you not understand the idea that people can be unreasonable for no reason? Humans lie yk, don't be so naive.
I'm only starting to scratch at this story. I've watched the "The Truth" video that you've linked. Thank you for that.
So far as I can tell, with only reading an article of SA allegations on the ssbwiki and watching that video, "The Truth" is a big nothing burger with (in my opinion) bizarre and paranoid conspiratorial accusations. I'm still digesting it, but there's so little of substance that I find it difficult to even comment.
I will mention however that the (deleted) "The Truth" video contains a quote from one "Viktor Johansson" (?) describing that Leffen "has on several occasions edited or *removed* his own posts in order to embellish himself, which clearly shows that he is a dishonest person." (emphasis mine)
Seems funny to me that a video Hax$ would delete soon after publishing contains the logic that the removal of posts is an indication of dishonesty. More than an indication, something that "clearly shows" dishonesty.
@@ace76productions Did you even watch the video that got him banned again in NYC? It was another classic Hax apology video with a non-apology and more talk about leffen.
@@Rhylum you mean the truth?
The man was bullied, created a great controller for those with bad hands, is one of the top Fox mains in the world, AND apologized multiple times ad nauseam, and somehow he's been slapped with a permaban?
This whole situation is awful. At this point the punishment does not fit the crime.
First and foremost; absolutely no hate towards Simp, only love. You're my favorite RUclipsr and I would never argue with you. That being said, I've followed the Smash and FGC scenes for a while, and I'm a drama leech, so I followed the Hax stuff closely. (I fell out of the Smash scene a while back though, but I tried to still stay up to date on the community. If any of my information is outdated, I'm sorry.)
For the sake of fairness, I do want to add a few things missed in this video that pertains to why he was banned;
-Hax also denied that other popular Smash player iBDW aka Cody was sexually assaulted, and said his claims were fake or they he enjoyed it. This is after Cody came to Hax first about it, and confided in him because he trusted Hax.
-There is another video missing called 'The Truth' that he published, where he makes a LOT of egregious claims such as; ZeRo was only removed because of the #MeToo movement even though there was considerable evidence of sexual assault. That Leffen manipulated the owners of The Metagame Documentary to make Leffen sound good and HaX look bad (Even though the only thing removed was 20 seconds of footage). He cites a lot of questionable sources as well, such as MrWizard. I highly recommend watching the video to anyone reading this.
Being a TO is hard. Like, REALLY hard. They have to make a call because if they don't, then it 'sets the bar' for what you can get away with just for being good at a game. Where does the line stop? Can we be misogynistic? Can we be racist? What are the circumstances to be unbanned for those kinds of things? It creates a huge problem where everyone can then point at the Hax case and say "WHAT ABOUT." It's unfortunate that Hax had such a following, because the hate that his community started spewing towards Leffen was just vile. As a TO, you'd have to make a decision because if you don't, and Hax continued his witch hunt, eventually Leffen was going to get hurt.
The Smash community is unfortunately not an organization with elected members to make calls on things. The people making these decisions are individuals who ran a tournament super well and cultivated their community, they're just smash players, Smash is not a recognized sport with an official board to make these decisions, nor do they have a set in stone violation or code of conduct that spans the entirety of Smash. One TO can make a decision, but no other TO is obligated to agree with or enforce that decision at his tournament.
While I personally fell out of the scene a long time ago, I try to keep up with it. I'm very interested in how this decision goes because right now there are multiple calls for multiple FGC members to be unbanned from their respective games. The unbanning of one will quickly cascade into calls for others to be unbanned, and I'd like to see how far this goes.
Thank you for the additional context. I don't know whether or not Simple was aware of these points, but they do add a lot of extra context to why TO's may be hesitant to unban Hax. Defending sexual assault and pedophilia (especially claiming that the victims liked it), in particular, is troublesome - if they allow someone who openly defends sexual predators, it'll contribute to making the scene an unsafe place. Has he acknowledged doing these and apologised for them, or has he ignored these aspects?
Another comment on this video mentions that, apparently in one of HaX's videos, he said the previous apologies were lies. I haven't seen the videos myself, so it's just heresay that I can't verify - but if it's true, that's an additional point to consider.
i think that while slander and bad dialogue is destructive, keeping the public forum open to all people and ideas is the most fair to people
the smash community was built on trash talking. Fucking matt deezie purposely trash talked online to get people to show up and prove him wrong at his tournament go series. If they just banned him from online boards for saying things that could be construed as mean, there would be no smash scene today.
Simple has got to be the single most human person with a platform. he uses it to talk about injustices he sees in the world, when things happen to him he talks about it, he keeps his fans from attaching a parasocial relationship to him, he's humble, he's kind, he's caring about the world he lives in and the people around him. no one can ever know him as well as he knows himself but he let's himself be a beacon and honestly this kind of behavior is the kind that all influencers should strive for imo.
it's not always about "I'm objectively correct" and he acknowledges that. if there are people he legitimately believe hax should continue to be banned he's not saying they're wrong, he's asking them to talk about it. he's calling for an active discussion in the community not just for everyone to believe him outright. commendable behavior
A real human bean
"he keeps his fans from attaching a parasocial relationship to him" meanwhile you glazing him
@@fujster yeah I'm giving him props, that doesn't mean I think he's my personal friend, what do you think parasocial relationships are?
Thanks dude, I loved hax man. He was one of my favorites back in 2012ish. I hope he can come back
Big respect to simple for making this video. The smash community has been one of the most overreactive immature communities with ridiculous drama and completely arbitrary rules for a long time, which is partially why I quit following it a few years ago (used to be a huge fan.) it’s nice to see somebody act like an adult for once about this, hopefully people listen. ❤ you simple
Damn, I just watched the last 2 videos in the playlist and that's actually wild. I was convinced on the merit that he's been banned long enough for the initial offense but then I learned the shit he's been through as well.
I think this video is really irresponsible man. You make some good points and I agree that Hax has been treated unfairly but you leave out a lot of important context. He didn't just keep apologizing over and over, he would apologize, not get immediately forgiven, and then go off again multiple times. It wasnt just one 2-hour mental break video and then a bunch of defense - if it was, you'd be totally right. But Hax over and over *showed* that he didnt feel bad, even if thats at odds with what he was saying. Whenever people talk about this they leave out that context which has always caused a ton of brigading against TOs and community members who just want to host and attend events free of harassment. I think wanting to have this dialogue is fine, but you need to be more neutral with how you present this. Hax doesnt deserve to be unbanned just because hes a "generational talent" and because he loves the game. He needs to show that he can move on and stop directing harassment at someone else who has already moved on before an unban should be discussed and that just hasn't happened yet.
I have a sense based on some of Simple's comments here in this video that he may be too close to this issue (specifically, to Hax$) to behave as a neutral observer.
It's interesting to hear what more level-headed people like you have to offer to the conversation and discover that this entire thing is potentially far messier than Simple presents it as.
Someone explain to me how making a video speaking up about being bullied warrants a ban in the first place?
Because the bullies are the ones who decide whether people are banned or not, lol
@@shuikai272 OH MY GOSH! Wtf smh
It's pretty self explanatory when he compares him to Hitler and other rather fucked up figures.
@@Razelithe Silence Hitler.
Hax didn't make a video speaking up about being bullied. Hax made a series of rant videos that he continues to produce to this day about how other players are dangers to society and are literally the next fascist dictators, about how sexually assaulting children is actually funny (plus the idea that we should make fun of the victims and defend the abusers), and about how other players he doesn't like should be banned from everywhere because they're "obviously" part of some massive global conspiracy to take over the world. SimpleFlips literally lies about all of this in the video. Even Hax's recent appeals and apologies are more rant than apology or appeal. This video is legit awful enough to make me unsubscribe.
I personally think that a perma ban with no option to redeem yourself is really stupid. We are all humans and we change. It just discourage people instead of making them change their behaviour.
How did you do at your last Melee local?
@@alexanderbateman5581 How long ago was your last date?
@@alexanderbateman5581 When did you last shower?
@@alexanderbateman5581Why are you spamming this in reply to every comment?
@@alexanderbateman5581 how is that relevant at all?
"the point of this isn't to point fingers at leffen" well i'm gonna point fingers at leffen. he's just as big of a blight on the strive community as he was in melee, fuck 'im.
Well, this isn’t *about* Leffen or Strive. Making this about him won’t change Hax$’s situation.
@@EnbyVess Leffen’s reaction to hax$s video is the reason this happened.
@@EnbyVess Leffen is COMPLETELY at fault for this situation.
Hax was a victim, and because he lashed out after A DECADE of bullying, he is the one who is punished. Disgusting and legitimately played a large part in why I stopped following melee.
Mad respect for posting this Simple. I don’t personally know hax$, and thought the videos were in bad taste, however after seeing the NYC unban conditions that’s nuts. Thanks for bringing this up - really. It’s been too long.
its amazing to me that leffen wasnt banned but hax was, theres something more going on here
Ignoring whether or not you personally believe that what Hax$ did should be forgiven, I'm pretty disappointed to hear you cite Hax$'s dedication to the game as a valid reason to unban him. This is a very, VERY dangerous line of logic. No amount of love for a game will ever excuse harmful behavior. This is the same logic used to defend sexual predators. "You wouldn't want to ruin a man with a promising career." Obviously this particular situation isn't one of that nature, I just want to highlight how disgusting it is to use as a form of moral defense.
Using that as a defense isn't disappointing or disgusting, the situation is, such as the sexual predator example you gave. There are plenty of contexts or examples where it would be entirely inoffensive as a defense. I think this is a situation where it is inoffensive. If you're offended, I think that's more of a *you* problem.
Unclutch your pearls
He used the argument because they took one of their most dedicated and constructive members in their community and ostracized him for calling out his bully/harasser of a decade.
They should have helped Hax, but instead they sided with his abuser.
Yeah you would have a point. IF THIS WAS SEXUAL ASSAULT OR MURDER. Dedication to something is on the other hand a reason why someone might act out. Heck theres a soccer player who bit off a guys ear twice and wasnt banned from the soccer league. Compared to that what is going on here? Childrens games. Not melee but the controversy. Its literally someone getting banned for highschool drama. Get over it who the fuck cares. Nobody was physically injured. Leffen was "scared to go out for a few days" thats on him. How many melee players has he fucked over? I think he deserves his little bit of hate.
I just feel that over the years, actions and statements from Leffen and Hugs have severely negatively affected other people in the community but, to my knowledge neither of them have ever been punished for anything.
During the smash bros witch hunt that did in fact expose and remove bad people
Leffen and Hugs had also dogpiled accusations that had no evidence, or were made up, to people that were innocent in the end.
If the punishment for misrepresenting someone else is to be completely deleted from the community, it's hard to take the community seriously when some people are exempt from this
Hey Simple,
Firstly I'm embarrassed about how long this got. I tried to put down my genuine thoughts about this
I'm someone who doesn't really play melee anymore, but did go to locals for a few years and TOd back in college. I watched all of Hax's initial drop, Evidence.zip 2 and followed some of the initial discussion around the ban, but bowed out after the public appeal. After listening to the January ban appeal and "The Truth" I really don't agree that Hax should be unbanned and I didn't like your arguments in this video. It felt to me like you spent a lot of time talking about how much Hax has contributed to the scene and how great a player he is and wrote Hax's content off as just making youtube videos. I don't agree that being a great player should grant special privilege and I don't agree that competitors should be able to post anything and still go to tournaments.
From Hax's statements back in Evidence.zip2 and through his most recent video I do not get the impression that Hax is sorry. At all. The argument that he's made so many apology videos doesn't mean anything when, to my ear, he is absolutely not sincere. The hypocrisy of bringing up the evidence.zip allegations over and over while also pleading for the community to forget about the videos he made WHILE describing the issues with them as "bad optics" is just too much for me to handle.
The newer videos doubling down on Leffen making Hax take action are gross. He stated that by him holding evidence.zip he's privy to a lens that is forcing him to see Leffen in a different light and he's obligated to make videos calling him out and that just does not track with his apologies or the narrative of personal growth. I would like to see Hax genuinely let go of his narrative around Leffen. I want him to stop trying to convince people that Leffen is a Machiavellian actor and that his actions were or are justified because he is. As for what a good apology looks like I'd want to hear about how he was feeling during the lead up to these videos, what he thought he was doing, what impact that's actually had and how he's processed the past in order to avoid doing anything like that again. His apologies are eerily similar to the original videos down to the thumbnail used. I want to see a genuinely different approach. I'm not sure what the "topic of their ban" means in the google doc but I'm not even sure that would have violated Ny's rules:docs.google.com/document/d/1_qBOMKYLdtPKXrnqoQZ2w8wiaHPNbv2O9J2fK-vvkEs/edit
I think NY was correct to reban him based on the terms they agreed to. Hax could have easily sent that video to the TO's that signed his ban privately, or asked that someone from the NY scene advocate on his behalf. By posting more Leffen content he is directly violating the ban and advocating for himself in maybe the worst possible way. I do not believe that the community wants to see him banned, but TOs do need him to stop pedaling conspiracies and stop referencing evidence.zip. As someone who purportedly wants to move past old mistakes and be accepted back into the community after serving a ban you'd think he could understand that. Having a positive impact on his local scene and letting other TOs advocate for him would have been a much more effective way to go about his national ban.
From what I've seen I think Hax feels like if he can convince the community that Leffen was worse and was only banned for 1 year then he should be allowed back in. I think he still believes the smash community needs to kick out Leffen or it will die. I can't imagine both players being at any event together and it sounds like a nightmare to try to adjudicate.
All that being said I think you can make better arguments for Hax being unbanned. 4 years ago there was genuine fear that Hax's community would take some kind of violent action against Leffen. That has not happened. Hax isn't a violent guy and nothing bad is going to happen from having him at a tournament. You can argue that players should be able to hate each other and still be made to compete. In less extreme instances it makes for great content. I really hope Hax can find a way to appeal without needing to justify his actions or come across as apologizing just so he can play again.
I've heard a lot of non-apologies in my day. There's a lot of people in the comments singing a similar tune, but fewer in number than people who seemingly only watched Simple's video and support his take. I myself am new to this topic and have tried to resist jumping to conclusions.
There is a rising concern in me that Simple has done a poor job of presenting the facts and is muddying the waters by gathering support from people who are consequently poorly informed.
Leffen should be perma banned tho
@@Andrew.A. Hey I'm not new to this topic at all and just want to let you know Simple is both genuine and correct here. I can see how someone who is new and doesn't know anything about the situation might mistakenly read the situation incorrectly though so don't worry, you are forgiven!
I don't know much about Hax$ and haven't seen the videos yet so I don't know how nasty things got, but one thing that is apparent to me is that the terms of the conditional unban, allowing him to attend a small number of local tournaments in exchange for all ability to defend himself or appeal for a full unban, is absolutely ludicrous.
I think if everyone watched his most recent apology, they wouldnt want him unbanned.
Never really heard much about this. I knew he was banned but never why or how long. I am a long time casual melee enjoyer but i really just watch and don't follow anything beyind that. This is actually extremely unjust.
Good thing you made this video, i hope it'll lead to an unban.
I'm typically a big fan, but you're either misunderstanding this situation or intentionally misrepresenting it.
1:00 you saying this at this point implies that hax and leffen were teenagers in 2021, this is false. Hax was 26 when he released Evidence.zip 2 The "bullying" in question took place in 2014-2015, which leffen was already banned for once and has since apologized for
2:13 Leffen had little to no interest in engaging with hax in online arguments, it was purely one sided and the fanbase that hax had would threaten leffens life and family consistently for months due to the video.
3:00 Its worth noting that this in fact was not the first time hax made a long video with baseless accusations in order to use his audience to push someone out of the community, he had done it prior in 2016/17 to a player named Gravy who disagreed with him about how a box style controller layout should function. This was taken into account when he was banned in 2021 and its a large reason as to why he was told he needs to stop making videos that are clearly attacks on other players.
5:20 You're really glossing over these "apologies" Not once in either does he apologize for weaponizing his community
5:49 COC rules 2.2.1 and 2.3.3 pertain to harassment and hate speech, either you are simply ignorant of that or you genuinely believe that someone should be able to post hate speech or harass a community member on a personal channel, I'm hoping its simply ignorance
6:00 The vast majority of events are community run by volunteers, TO's can not permit someone at their event for any reason they want to, behaving in a way that cause others discomfort or discourage them from showing up is a very reasonable expectation
6:30 while its fair to say that not being able to talk about his ban publicly is a bit harsh, every single time Hax made a tweet or video about his ban, TO's, volunteers and Leffen would receive threats and hateful dm's. This EXACT REASON was explained to him by New York TO's
7:00 This apology from hax was intentional, he released it in the week leading up to big house partially because he wanted to attend and partially because he was angry leffen would be attending and knew his fanbase would attack leffen. He did not reach out to the big house organizers privately he just immediately went to twitter knowing it would cause problems for Leffen and the Organizers.
8:00 Hax's 5th apology is the first time he directly apologizes to leffen and actually takes accountability for his actions. this apology is better but it comes directly after he caused a massive amount of issues.
8:30 Describing this final video as anything but another attempt at a hit piece is ingenuine. Hax parrots false information, misleading information and even leaks the names of individuals related to the #metoo movement of 2020 that were intending to remain anonymous all in an attempt to bring leffen down alongside him.
Dont get me wrong, i think FINALLY hax is understanding the effects of his actions and his last few apologies have been very good, and i do see a world where he could get unbanned in the future, but it hasn't even been 6 months since a mental breakdown caused huge problems which cost thousands of dollars to Tournament Organizers and competitors (They had to hire additional security due to threats).
I'm really hoping that you are genuinely just underinformed or misinformed about most of this topic, as i've been a fan for a while but seeing you publicly misrepresent this case has been really hard.
My only gripes with the idea of "I don't think a TO should be allowed to moderate what someone says on their youtube channel" is in the case of bigotry and being *excessively* toxic. I don't really know much of anything about the Hax$ situation, however, this comment is just about how there should always be extents to protect players from bad actors within the community, no matter how cracked they are.
You're hopefully not wanting to mean it that specific way, especially with the topic being about Hax$ himself under these specific circumstances, but I just wanted to mention that.
I believe for some silly drama (at least all I've heard of it which is from you) like this a ban of this scale is... stupid, to say the least.
Leffen is the cracked bigot that gets protected. Hax was the guy that got bullied and went off the deep end, but instead of doing it in person and getting violent he tried to bring the abuses to light and show the community the problem.
The bully was rewarded and the victim has become the community punching bag.
@@chrismdb5686 This person isn’t saying this about Leffen. They’re saying a problem they have with what Simple said about a way to handle a community (never take any action regarding what someone says out of tournament).
Please stop misinterpreting people like this. Leffen isn’t the focus in this video or discussion whatsoever.
@@EnbyVess Firstly I gotta say I'm not even sure what you're replying to because my op has been either deleted or hidden and I can't see it.
Regardless, you can't talk about this without talking about him. He's the sole reason any of this happened in the first place, and any argument that Hax went too far calls the community into question for excusing Leffen's conduct that acted as the catalyst in the first place.
I wonder if it was because he put comparisons to evil dictators that melee TOs are more cautious of allowing him.
hella cool thing to do simple! HAX doesnt deserve this severe of a punishment
Hax dug his own hole on this one. When you repeatedly say that Hax is just a teenager you do realize that he was 27 when evidence.zip2 dropped 3 years ago, that's a grown ass man that made the comparisons to Stalin and then doubled downed after people called him out for that. Also a few reasons you listed for hax to be unbanned are that he is good at hitting buttons, plays a lot of melee matches online, and made tech for the game which is never a good reason for people to get unbanned. I don't believe Hax is a bad person or someone that doesn't actually regret saying all that stuff and whole heartedly apologized. I just don't believe that when a decision is made that multiple TOs signed off on should be nullified because community figures and top players advocate for them to be unbanned because they press buttons really good. If this was some random that did all this and got banned then asked for an unban after apologizing multiple times, not a single person would speak up for them and they would stay banned.
The guy has not shown any signs of improvement as he constantly takes one step forward and two steps back with each post he makes. It is far more important that other players feel safe and comfortable at their locals and at major tournaments than it is for one guy who can't stop making videos of targeted harassment to be able to play. Given your tweets on this, and the response from actual melee players on those tweets, I'm kinda surprised you would continue to advocate so heavily for a guy who can not stop doing the one thing he was told not to do.
as an aside, hax isn't even banned from ALL tournaments, he was literally at Tipped Off and Dreamhack Atlanta last year (and even showed up to the GA melee christmas tournament post-dh lol). Hax loves to make himself into a victim and he gets carried to that status by chronic onliners who have never been to a local and don't understand the situation. it is every TO's right to choose who can and can't be at their tournaments. most would just rather not make others uncomfortable for the sake of having a mildly top player in bracket
Mental health advocates will look at a guy who had a mental breakdown years ago and pretend he's a terrorist.
Oh and he wants to be unbanned from doing the thing he enjoys??? 😮 How blasphemous.
@heckssoda588 buddy if you got offended by being called a "chronic onliner" while engaging in discourse about a player who is exclusively banned from in person tournaments in some states, what are we even doin here. you're outing yourself as having no information or experience in the community.
the shower things pretty good you got my ass aha, except once again, it's a joke targetted at melee players, which, is what this ENTIRE thing is about lmfao. do you even know where you are man?
@@R.P.Genocraft he has as recently as 6 months ago made videos about other players, which is the ONE thing he was told not to do. just baffling levels of clueless here lmfao
This is an interesting situation, I think that simple has made a good effort in being fair, he doesn’t deny that hax misbehaved but it is true that the indefinite status of his ban may have been too harsh of a punishment and stripped away his chance to demonstrate how he has changed for the better.
only issue I have with the video is he didn't seem to give some further context of the consequences of Hax's videos
That unban from NYC was extremely unprofessional. Silencing someone entirely was just a way to say he’s permanently banned without putting it into text