Fun note I've noticed on my last few playthroughs: If you wander around the castle before giving Marle's father jerky, the castle NPCs talk about the prison guards were ALL hired by the chancellor(the one who is a Yakra) SO WE ARE GUILT FREE ABOUT KILLING THE GUARDS
One thing I know about Cross; "Time's Scar" is possibly the greatest intro track to any video game, and possibly any story, that I have ever heard. I have never felt more "FUCK YES, LET'S FUCKING GO, LET'S HAVE AN ADVENTURE" than after hearing that shit.
That song enamored me as a child Chrono cross has always had a way more special place in my heart than trigger but i also played cross first so my opinion is totally skewed
I played cross first. I absolutely understand why people hate it when they tried trigger first. its a complete betrayal to those fans and those expectations. But i really vibe with it, the aesthetic, the combat the pointless tons of characters. bringing a character to meet their alternate dimension self will never get old and the plot is so wacky but works as a vehicle for colourful boss battles. I will always respect the save kid or leave her choice even if i was totally duped by previous games and their "but thou must" attitude blocking me from the one character i wanted to join my party. I have more nostalgia and love for cross even if trigger is undeniably a better designed game. the funniest part to me though is that Cross has one of the best OST's ever but its normal battle theme is the weakest track by a country mile, to the point where the game keeps playing dungeon music over it for tense moments in the story (most of the endgame lol)
I legitimately want to say thank you for this comment. You summed it up extremely well with the expectations line. I always WANTED to like Cross, I have tried it multiple times but I have never been able to jive with it. I honestly wonder how much of that is that it has "Chrono" attached to it. I mean, I loved Legend of Dragoon, and Cross seemed at least comparable to that flawed gem. And yet, soundtrack to gameplay to characters (exceptions abounding) it just never held me. And that always felt like a bit of a shame so I am glad others enjoy it even if I can't. So, again, thank you and well said.
@@BinaryDood Probably the same way you do with ANY of the games that have multiple endings, you pick the Canon one and go with it. Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain is one example. What might be a bigger "do not" is to is slap the name onto something and have the sequel have precious little to do with the prior game in terms of plot, gameplay, or characters. That seems far more outrageous than, y'know, picking one and rolling with it.
@@fedupN there is no canon one. And games that do that suck. Trigger is about the freedom of choice. Cross made a timecrash to make ALL endings canon, so interesting things could happen by meshing in those you have previosuly seen. Chrono Cross has everything to do with the Trigger. It plays with its broader strokes by denying free-will in a world of pure determinism. it answers the "Entity" question from the previous game. It elaborates on the side.consequences of warping time. It goes into on how humanity only exists because of Lavos, and their evolution being tied with the cosmic parasite. I'm sorry that you would be content with something so simple and cynical as picking the "canon one", as I would not even likely agree with you on which that would be. Not to mention the "Dream Team" would not gather together again, so to build it on the same things Trigger did great at would be fallacious from the get go. Cross is evertyhing that Trigger isn't. Trigger is free will, Cross is determinism. Trigger is to the point, Cross is about everything else around it. Trigger is seemingly simple, Cross is seemingly complex. And in those grounds it carved what Trigger could not. And even if it fails as a game compared to it, its themes bring about the best in Trigger retroactively. Finishing the puzzle of the series. Chrono Cross not being a "real sequel" is a meme that needs to die. A non-opinion of herd-thought and no value.
13:09 "like slapping crash into final fantasy VII" Considering that you control both an orangish lab rat dog AND an anthropomorphic robot cat on a giant plushie toy, crash doesn't really seem that out of place.
"Gotta take back Glenn" Yea. You don't even need 3 party members. Serge w/ mastermune, and Glenn w/ double einlanzer would steamroll through 99% of the game.
Loved that entire story both kind of Coincide with each other.. Dario being in possession of the corrupted masamume and Glenn being his younger brother searching for his fathers swords or and desiring to be worthy to wield them.
I was waiting for K-bash to talk about Cross. I'm glad he didn't start like other people do and immediately start comparing the cross and trigger. I'm genuinely happy he covered Cross, it's one of my favorite rpgs and it's nice to know I'm not the only one who enjoys it for what it is.
@@Grangolus RIGHT? He seems to like this game for the same reasons he dislikes another? I may be miss reading it but hey no one can really help their taste in gaming.
Cross is good as long as you don't try to force it together with Trigger. It's almost like they decided randomly to add Trigger characters in it for LOL's.
I played Chrono Cross first and it was one of the earliest games that got me hooked on jrpgs as a kid. Chrono Trigger is more widely regarded but i personally enjoyed Cross far more. The music was beautiful and i loved being able to recruit nearly every character.
Same. I fucking feel You on that. I can't speak on the alternate reality where I played Trigger first but I live in this one where I fell in love with Lynx, Kid, Glenn and I regret nothing. Maybe there would be expectations if I played trigger first but here I am about to do another play through of this convoluted masterpiece.
@@Foraskennull I played Chrono Trigger first but I still share your sentiment. Honestly I think a lot of people are just butthurt fans of the first ones and aren't mature enough to appreciate cross for what it is
@@sekumusashi7030 It's a confusing mess at least 60% of the time but something about it keeps me coming back. It's a game that I can come back to and just fall in love again. The original I a classic, can't take that away but Cross is something special in its own right you know?
The ending track and leitmotif of Chrono Cross, Radical Dreamers, was the song that inspired me to learn how to play guitar... many decades later in my late 30s. Obviously, that's not an ideal age to learn a complex musical instrument, but damn it, the song was that good And eventually, I pulled it off. I remember absolutely nothing else about the game, though.
It’s funny you say you don’t particularly like Toriyama’s involvement with CT. That’s exactly what drew me into playing it in the first place as a kid, not even knowing who the hell Toriyama even was. I saw similarities to the dragon ball art style and immediately fell in love with the game. I swear, if Toriyama was not the main art designer for the game, I wouldn’t’ve come to appreciate or care as much about CT in the first place. Also, it’s the same reason why I never touched CC, even to this day. It didn’t appeal to me without that sweet, sweet Toriyama touch.
The cringiest part of this is that every example he listed came after this game. Bruh, Z overworked the man so much he had to go back and copy what he did well the first time he drew a guy with a sword. Chrono's design was a genius thing. Don't let the Gen Z experience fool you.
Aaron Lindsey chrono’s design is still one of my favorite designs of all time. I’m telling ya; if SE ever remade this game and they didn’t have Toriyama reprise his role as lead designer, there would be a riot. I hope it happens soon because Toriyama isn’t getting any younger
@@aaronlindsey2219 I did some quick searches and CT came out like 4 years later than Trunks debut. But it's also true than in 95 we hadn't had much exposure to Toriyama. Not that it matters. I don't have a weird expectations of dog protagonists. And Toriyama's designs are fine to good. Even in this video he mentions they were able to cover drama and comedy better than cross'.
If there was ever a game that went in one ear and out the other for me, it was Chrono Cross. Got the game when it came out because I loved CT so much, did everything there was to do and I remember none of it. The characters, the story, the music, the setting...pretty much forgotten as soon as the credits started rolling.
I agree with you about everything except the music, which remains fucking timeless. But my god are you right about the worst characters of virtually any JRPG, one of the worst stories, and a world that despite the colourful art was so so forgetable. I didn't mind the battle system but the lack of any experience or equipment ruined it. And it has a terrible ending that has nothing to do with the game, and shoves a ton of unearned Chrono Trigger connections in at the end (Lucca dies in a fire running an orphanage, wtf?)
Cross was Chronospolitation lmao. If they had just not tried to make it a Chrono game it likely could've started its own series, or just would've been better received in general.
@@freakyfro99 where do you even go from Trigger? It's so perfectly self-contained, they were kinda forced to pull a Kojima on fans. And decided to experiment the sh.. out of it because at that point why the hell not? It is so incoherent an all over the place BECAUSE it is a true sequel.
@@vsolyomi The answer is nowhere. Just let something be a standalone project and stand on its own feet. They weren't forced to do anything, they tried to milk CT nostalgia by sloppily slapping in links to CT and this project failed to live up to expectations and gets shit on by CT fans all the time because of it. Your last sentence is just complete nonsense and is just you trying to slap an excuse together tbh. A true sequel discards literally everything that everyone loved about the first game? lmao ok. FF and Dragon Quest have more linking their random unlinked games together than CT and CC do XD
I just wanna, say, her listen here, just wanna say: I never played Chrono Trigger until last year, so when I say this, my opinion is not being clouded by bias and nostalgia, I played the game for the first time as an adult; Chrono Trigger is a master piece. It is better than Final Fantasy, better than Dragon Quest, it is simply the best JRPG, full stop (that means "period" btw).
@Shin Shaman Woah, dude we get it, you have terrible taste. Its fine don't worry about it. We all get better taste eventually, just takes some time. You'll get there.
I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that Trigger is success from simplicity, then Cross answers back with extreme complexity. There's something there with Cross, but it's buried. Trigger is all killer, no filler and that's why I like it.
I don't even know if he ever killed me but it was so unexpected. It's not like he transformed. And it's after he tells you this long story. And he doesn't look like a warrior. And he is tough.
Seriously fuck that boss battle. Whenever I replay Cross, that is one of the battles I get stuck on for a bit. And let us not forget, when you lose you gotta go through the looooong dialogue again before you fight him, ugh!
I love both and played them near their prime, but Cross does something to me as a gamer that not many have ever done. I feel like engaging in a book. It's the music, the SFX, the art style, the inclusion, the Battle system, the locations, the characters, the story that ties it all together. Chrono Cross is easily in my top five favorite games.
I remember and rate games based on their story and how effective it was at delivering that story. A great story-driven RPG I can almost recite the whole story. Final Fantasy 6/7/8/9, Chrono Trigger, even open world games like Fallout and TES: Morrowind. I tend to spend a lot of time with good RPGs. Even after 10 years since I last played them, I can talk about major events in those games. The characters, etc. That said, the most damning criticism I can levy at Chrono Cross is that I don't remember it. What I remember is that I spent the better part of a year playing through Chrono Cross after it came out - trying out different party combinations, going through and making different choices. I know I did that. But, watching retrospectives like this - there's a ton of stuff that I don't remember. There's scenes that I'm watching that feel like I'm watching for the first time because I don't recall any of it. What I remember is the ending, that the last fight basically is just a Simon game of getting the right color combination. That Guile was supposed to be Magus, but wasn't (and that he didn't have any special connection to the characters). I remember that the game insinuates a bad ending for the cast of Chrono Trigger. I remember this being a beautiful game. But this story? I don't recall anything. I'm watching this retrospective, and it is like I'm seeing the game for the first time. I don't recall this story, and thus, I don't recall this game. If you asked me what Chrono Cross was about, the best I could come up with would be "Fantasy princess from another game gets trapped with a time-bending eldritch abomination and drops a clone of herself into a parallel dimension because she once heard a kid cry." And that's it. I don't think it's good that is all I remember of Chrono Cross.
*PTSD flashbacks of getting clapped by Dario* My 2 favorite games of all time are chrono cross and legend of dragoon. I'd really love to see you cover it some day.
I used to love JRPGs in my teens but I hit a phase where I just couldn't get into them anymore for several years. Until I finally sat down to play the copy of Chrono Trigger I had been putting off for over a year. Totally sucked me in and reawakened my love for the genre. I find it interesting that at least two games have tried to be a modern Chrono Trigger. FF13-2 used a similar time travel system to make up for the linearity of the prior entry. I Am Setsuna copied the gameplay of Trigger while trying to...retell FF10 at least from what I saw of it before I lost interest. Neither game is bad and I whole heartedly love 13-2 but neither even comes close to the excellence of Trigger.
Heavily prefer Trigger sans any insults However I feel like Cross is a whole unique experience, how many games can you get such a vast roaster of mythical creatures, aliens, dogs and characters from prior entries just from making a different choice? I can have three people play it and they could all come out with completely different parties based on their outlooks and choices. Where else will you find endearing interactions with NPCS or goofy ones like the one at the end of the video. I kinda miss that time when RPGS/JRPGS could be both deep in terms of story and still have fun and silly interactions; nowadays games take themselves too seriously so you wont run into that much anymore unless it's a persona or dragon quest game. (couple of really good jrpgs) and since alot of role playing games have started adopting realistic styles it be a bit silly which is why you dont see the same charm the old ff7 had like throwing biggs into the camera because J/RGPS have now turned into Business first; everything must be serious and when it's silly its more based on cringe slap stick than genuine humor. It's a shame we lost that with older games, that all being said still plenty of good ones but I also loved when the creators had fun with characters jumping, or someone running into them and they spin like a top then fall over like a toy and so on.
"Success through simplicity to superfluous complexity", now thats a phrase if i ever heard one, NOOOICE. guess thats what u get for men children complaining the OG was too eaasy.
Plot and mechanics-wise, Chrono Cross is a mess. But it had the most beautiful, hardware-pushing visuals and such memorable music. I would still keep it in my PS1 library just to re-experience the first time I was amazed by its looks.
So much to say and validate but I will just say good job for making the dragon ball analogies so clean and well. Like wow man you really did an incredible job here in so many ways. It actually doesn’t feel like a yt video where you’re making sure you check off boxes like .discuss music, reiterate it’s an J rpg, and the tired old ‘ it sequel Nani?! ‘
Back then when trigger came out the script translation was really a huge upgrade from other RPGs of the time, with the exception of FF3. When it came to Cross the depth of the script was mindblowing at the time. One of my favorite parts is where Miguel describes how one future must die for another to live. It was just really well translated and very deep. For a teenager at the time, Cross was philosophical. No other word describes it; it left you confused but awed.
Man, I loved both games for different reasons. Chrono Trigger gave me the choice to explore the ending that I wanted. Chrono Cross made me experience plot twists one after the other. They're different games that, to be honest, didn't need to be connected in the first place, but they did it anyway. It's like Megaman and Megaman X: shares a name, presents different themes. Or say the Final Fantasy games: shares a name, presents different themes. I don't think it's a bad thing to experience games with shared names in completely different ways. Think about it this way: at least you experienced something.
I played Cross First and its one of my favorite games ever, even w all the space time weirdness. I still haven't given Trigger much time (emulated it a few years back but stopped a few hours in), but I think this is what's going to push me to finally giving it a real shot.
@Shin Shaman i think a lot more people would be able to enjoy it if they just looked at it as an individual game instead of being so fixated on it being a far departure from the game it was considered a sequel to. If someone played Cross first without any of that context in mind I feel like its much easier to do that
I think Chrono Cross is more of a sequel to Radical Dreamers than it ever is to Trigger. I love Chrono Cross as a game, but only sorta like it as a Chrono Trigger sequel.
Some thoguhts/discussions I had about the Chrono Series: The way I see it, Trigger is Free Will and Cross is Determinism. And in the good ending of CC you achieve Compatibilism. Your video is probably the best on Chrono Cross on RUclips for not falling in the same pitfalls everyone does. We agree on most things and I applaud you for bringing to the forefront most of the things you did. But there is a thing omitted in your reading of the story: "Humanity is the offspring of Lavos" About half of the story of Chrono Cross I sort of predicted while playing Chrono Trigger for the first time, having 0 idea of Cross's story. This is because CC is a very thematic game. Its brush strokes are far more important than its plot points. And Lavos' biology was the key to understanding everything about CT's structure and story, and IMO, in my first reading, I considered the ENTITY to be the hypothetical Lavos' final form, had Chrono not stopped it and it went on other further planets with the cycle of creating and destroying civilizations for it's own end of absorbing their useful data and energy until they become useless: as it is in it's nature. A God furnace, for the perfect being. That being would lie beyond time alltogether. However, Schalla, falling into it in an eternal instant, became part of a dilema over the entire fate of the universe and humanity alongside it. Both Kid and the Frozen Flame are the respectful avatars for Schalla and Lavos. They were put into the world to be apart of its collective causality with the purpose of seeing who wins, what the answer is to the argument: "Are humans, not being apart of the planet, fit to be live among the ecossystem when, in their inevitable progress, they can only hurt it?". Schalla (a human): Yes Lavos ("creator" of humans): No "It all began with Nu. It all will end with Nu." It is a Nu that tells you in Zeal a sequence of elements to open sealed doors. Likely the sequence on the chrono cross is a much ancient melody like the Nu's themselves, the same type of elemental sequence they gave you in Trigger but much more ancient and important (it being longer, using more elements, being somewhat of a proof). The song is called "Life", borrowing leitmotif from Schalla's theme, I assume it is the first melody of the universe, once the first being started being able to understand things like rythm, awareness of play in sound. Humanity, if being able to understand this, and not merely paving their way taking everything for granted acording to their will, would be in agreement with Schalla's argument. Understanding the melody is being in tune with the idea that everyone is apart of the "golden chain" Schalla speaks off, that your past is not the sole writer of your destiny (planets are eggs, Lavos is the seed, impregnating them. But you are not merely your DNA). By merely killing the Devourer of Time AKA The Entity, who has orchestrated everything in this game of destiny for finding an answer to the dilema, you are agreeing with Lavos on humanity's destructive nature, us being incompatible with the borad homeostasis of the planet due to having originated from an outer place. Lavos is the "other" to all the things in the world, yet it seeded the fate of those not meant to be (us). Take note on when Lavos decides to rise from the earth being at around the same time AI reached sentience and power. Likely humanity were not the apex leaders of the world and would serve no more use to Lavos, hence passing the torch to Mother Brain and eliminating Humanity, the inbetweners of the Natural and the Artificial. Ending the Entity's life at the Darkness Beyond time would be in agreement to Lavos' will, which would also be a death wish from it's part, as having attained its perfect form and existing outside of time, it has been living for an eternity, and having served its purpose there would be no reason to exist the moment it's point is proved. And since it is outside of time, an eternity is also an instant, so while Schalla and Lavos were wainting infinitely for your answer to their question, they also got their answer immedeatily as they became intemporal.
Hence Chrono is a child of Will, everything you/he does in Trigger is a direct forward action that stems from the natural way you play a game. Chrono would be dead before any of the events he decides to take part in would affect him, but he is in tune with the player who has the will to see things through. Therefore you completely change the world, altering the future y altering the past, you are a sculptor and the planet is the mold. But Serge is a child of Fate, everything he takes part in ends up being a bigger the game than the one he thought he was playing, every single one of his moves a subversion from a highger party trying to shape the world as their own clay (Balthazar, Lynx, Chronopolis, Dinopolis...). You, Serge, are a piece, not the player. Not even an owner of his own life, the game makes it clear, the first meaningful thing he encounters is the notice of his own death, in the past. When you use the song of the elements in the the Darkness beyond Time, you/Serge are crossing from this deterministic point of view to a compatibilist one. Crossing from Lavos' argument to Schalla, from fate to will. Because the game made it clear that actions have consequences. What you did in Trigger was great from your point of view, but imagine all the futures that never happened. By putting one piece in motion, you make others fall, and even you were a piece at some point yourself. You can't disprove determinism, Lavos is correct, Fate is correct, Balthazar is correct, Miguel is correct. But you can choose at every instance to take the "other" turn. Kid developted her own personality, being a child of the world, despite being a vehicle for another being's purpose. The Frozen Flame stayed put. Compatibilism says that though determinism being very real, that is something we cannot consider every aspect of at our every moment, so the very illusion of Free Will ends up being "real". That seems to be the only way for the destructive progress of humanity to coexist with the ancient nature, a fleeting hope. But that is up to the players themselves, should you go through the labor of finding and figuring out the chrono cross. If you do not, you are on Lavos' argument's linear path. I agree on Cross's pacing and storytelling and battlesystem being a mess. If anything, its biggest virtue is making Trigger even better, as all these elements make it so much richer that it is hard to diassociate them from the Lore. I can't think of Trigger wihout Cross after playing the latter. If Chrono Break was ever made I would like it to be acording to the Compatibalist nature of Cross's ending. A game were instead of intereacting with past and future you interact directly with alternate timelines, like in Cross, but with the freedom of Trigger. Perhaps changing many alternate futures of leading to Lavos. Imagine many cults of alternate timelines WANTING to be Lavos, that it was a method of being closer to The Entity, and in a way or another these many timelines would end up merging with it. And your turn is to put a brake to those timelines. Breaking their connection to Lavos, and perhaps later down the line it would be brought up if the Lavos' part of the Entity diserves to win in some timelines. Perhaps Schala becoming the the wider supremacy for unallowing Lavos to win due to your actions depending on how many timelines you would "Break". It is this type of speculation that makes Cross so rich. Even the combination of the painted background and the music gives the vibe of a world that doesn't need "say" but just "be". Look how blue nearly every aspect of Cross's world is, now see how red the Frozen Flame is. Red being the warmest color: forward motion, entropy. Blue being the coolest: stillness, serene, calm. Once it is all over, there are more hours in your life you didn't spend playing Chrono Cross than those you did. Because of that, making the game so strong thematically and artistically brilliant might have been a far better option than attempting cohesiveness of events in a plot that would naturally dissipate in memory over time. Cross works as a deconstruction of Trigger due to that. There are other details that people tend to miss. Schalla's hair being blonde because Zealots tried to differentiate themselves from Earthbound Ones by painting their hair blue. And she being much younger in Cross being possibly due to dividing herself when lending her power to her avatar: Kid. She had infinite years to figure out how but in the end she was only human, Lavos being the furnace of God, progenitor of all humans, would have a much easier time when creating its own avatar. The Frozen Flame would be like other spawns, just with more dedicated power from Lavos. Something that could be replaced on Lavos' end, non-unique. Kid, on the other end, is unique, showcasing Schalla's side of the argument. Chrono Trigger 2 is a physical impossibility. The Dream Team would not assemble again. The expectations would be to high to trully satisfy anyone. And a "sequel" in the Chrono Trigger universe simply can't happen traditionally as it would force the developer to choose a "canon" ending out of the possibility of many, a key aspect that defines the game. The Deus Ex series did this and I hated it. If anything is to be made in the Chrono series, it needs to be special, that is much more important than even being "good". That is why I would never trust anyone in Squeenix to attempt a game in this series. Thank you for you video for spelling out many of the things I thought and felt while playing the game, and dispelling the terrible arguments people tend to have about it online, spreading false information to find an easy answer to a complicated game, like you said. Sorry for any spelling mistakes, not my first language. Overall there is so much to be said about these games that any vastly unuanced reading makes me think what people even saw in these games in the first place. I remember my idea of "Humans are only alive because of a meteor who came from space and extinguished the natural inherithors of the planet thus creating the cycle of progress and hurt from their advancement in the ecossystem" becoming more and more enchanced in vocabulary and thought as I grew older, something that originated in a seemingly simple game such as Chrono Trigger. The negative space between the many parts of Trigger, constantly playing off one another leaves room for some surprisingly insightfullness. Perhaps the polar opposite of teaching Shakespear, by schollars considered exit level literature, to a 10 year old, who lacks the capacity and vocabulary to understand the events and words and themes of such a work. I perhaps owe Trigger a lot for giving me so many present interests of mine, stemed from what was and wasn't said in its superstructure of music, story and gameplay.
I should also mention that many games around this time from Square, in their golden age, share many themes and simmilairaties. You probably knows the gist: Secret of Mana was meant to be Chrono Trigger, Chrono Trigger was meant to be Final Fantasy 7. and FF7 was meant to be Xenogears (or vice-versa idk). Xenogears and Chrono Cross came around about the same time. There is in both games a room with Seave Points being manufactured my a higher civilization/facility. They have the same meaning but different particularities in each game. In Xenogears is because Solaris consider the people of the planet of being sheep to be herded, and everyone in the world has a limiter to their abilities and their data is collected to be managed. In Chrono Cross is the same thing for for Chronopolis, that through Fate supervises every single piece moving in this elaborate game of theirs. I bring this up because in Xenogears every human being is "incomplete", they are originally apart of Deus but were divided from the main body to develop to a "complete" state so they can be whole again with their creator. This to me sounds like Lavos allowing humanity to exist and develop in order to be harvested. In Xenogears this is used as a metaphor: That God created angels to have only one wing so that in their incomplete state they had to help each other to fly by holding hands. This is in tune with Xenogear's fractured experience. One separated from their past and their present, and even their psyche. I wonder if that metaphor can be used in Chrono Cross as well as the other shared themes. Humanity incomplete, lacking full wings to fly on their own, forever the progeny of Lavos and acting destructively as such. This sort of duality is what I like in older Square games. Even Final Fantasy 7 has a better ecological and worldy message than most things its type tend to have. " Eutimio Longoria Há 2 meses (editado) I like how you pointed out humans being the “step children” of Lavos. Humanity originated from Nature but coming into Lavos changed humans fundamentally (like being able to use Magic instead of Elements). Lavos destructive tendencies thus carried over to humans. After playing through Cross it made some aspects of Trigger stand out. Like the Ice Age. I interpret that as the planet trying to cause the extinction of humanity. And that Lavos arose not solely because of the Mammon Machine but because it interfered to keep humanity alive because they had not fulfilled their purpose yet. Notice how the weather becomes milder after Lavos arises. "
Chrono Trigger is about free will, your characters could live life and nothing would affect them, it is your will as a player that molds every outcome of the world by using those characters as proxy. Chrono Cross is about determinism. Fate is everywhere. Game starts with your character dead already. Everything you do, every outcome has been part of a bigger game by bigger entities. Even the savepoints, every npc, the world map, etc are part of that fate that you cant break. Until the final moments of the good ending (should you be able to find the sequence that males the melody of "LIFE") and you break those two notions apart from the eternal dilemma of Schalla/Lavos = The Entity (spoken in Chrono Trigger) and achieve "Compatibilism" as a midterm(edited) after all, by defeating Lavos humanity proves being its offspring by following the destroyer's path layed out for them that is why I defend the theory that the NU's were the universe's first living beings "All came from NU and all ends with NU" relatively simple beings, but in that simplicity they are far more attuned to the universe in Zeal a Nu gives you a sequence to open a secret door. Wind, Fire and Water in a specific sequence Chrono Cross's sequence is very much like that one, much older. The oldest in fact. And that is follow's Schalla's leitmotif, and as she lives beyond time itself, it could have been layed there since the beginning of time just so humanity could one day find it to free her and prove that they can remove their shackles from fate.(edited) it is a very conceptual game Lavos/The Frozen Flame is very red The world, the ocean, is very blue that is a necessary opposition. It communicates Blue as being something inner and Red being something outer. like Serge and Kid Time fixes itself. Schalla didnt forget anything, what you are saying assumes a linearity of time that Chrono Cross does not. Like I said, it was very conceptual. Schalla took everything that happened as she as wished since the beginning of time. Because those experiences were also predetermined you could say only after the game is over do they truly have freedom to chose. Hence that would be the "real" journey, and yours was just the awakening of Schalla.(edited) Considering Trigger was already a "real journey" itself, I'm fine with this deconstruction. Not all stories need to be a consequential triumph of our main characters. It doesn't have to last forever. It is kind of like the End of Evangelion. Humanity is gone, but lives on through Unit 1. Here, the humanity that was gone from the timeline we played lives on through Schalla. Chrono Trigger offers far more freedom of choice than any JRPG at the time, and still more than most nowadays. Your characters come from a place were the threat on the world would not affect them so essentially their will is the same as yours, the player, "To watch events unfold", like Robo/Luca speculated in the campfire scene, labeling it "The Entity". Just because it isn't put directly into question with its anthesis it doesn't mean it is not about it. Even calling it "meta-textual" doesn't cover it because games are so much more than the script and even the presented linearity of the story. Every part of Trigger is about choice, and that determined fate you contrast is the Day of Lavos in 1999. if anything, just on the many different ways you can defeat Lavos and the Black Omen as well showcases the multitude of possiblities on how any particular players can defeat "fate" in any particular way... particularly but the Dragons themselves are something else entirely their basis for "humanity the virus" ends up not being present phisically in the world as you see it but in potentiality, as they know what humanity truly is, and the multiple possible futures awaiting the Dragons are antithesis to Lavos as they were supposed to be the natural evolution of the planet's lifeforms into sentience, and humanity being alive only because of the parasitic "Lavos the Stranger" (to the planet, thus deviating the evolutionary line) AKA its "offspring". Given this humanity's sole existence is the opposite to the normal flow of the planet had it not been present. It is not so much an environmental message but a concern with one of main high parties of the game against the other, when both are competing for the existence of their own timelines. It comes across as environmentalist but really it is weaponized by the Dragons/Reptites to ward off against what they consider a threat. The game at its very end doesn't take a main stance on either side. Only the chrono cross allows to cut ties with Lavos by playing the ancestral melody of life to prove that humanity need not be parasitic, etc etc. Imagine that (example) the Cetra knew that Midgar from FF7 is going to be a thing, even before it exists, just by knowing what and how humans are (since the Dragons are entities from a future that was lost it helps). They would likely do everything in their power to stop it before it had a chance.
I would really like that you get a boom in RUclips, you are one of the few that still upload incredible vídeos and its a shame how undersub you are Love you
I love chrono cross, its a masterpiece and i like it even more than trigger. The combat its way more complex than the one in trigger, amazing OST, great scenarios and atmosphere, hell the story of kid and harle warm my heart. Definitely my favorite jrpg!
The answer is there in the game... If my memory doesn't fail me, he fed the town technological advancements that put that town in a massive military advantage to overwhelm any other. But I could be remembering it wrong, it's been 12 years since I last played it.
@@FarawayBrawlHacks That is correct, he introduced them to the grid system and infiltrated their military. He's also the person who stole the Masamune and seemingly murdered Crono and Marle. And in the extra content for the DS he even warns the player about not taking him seriously.
@@DSan-kl2yc What makes this funny is that in a way it was all Crono and friend's fault. Due to their time-meddling the Porre Mayor bloodline passed along the message of kindness and trustfulness. This made it easy for Dalton to win over the Mayor and get his funding.
@@SerpentineDeity Seems like a load of crap to me. What cause would Porre have to disturb 400 years of peace for some ridiculous continental military campaign?
I played cross first and then played trigger. I always go back to cross because I just love the island theme aesthetic of the game. I also think the battle system is complex at first but very rewarding once you understand it. And of course, the ost is one of the best I've heard in my life. I would love to see a remastered version but that's almost imposible in the near future. This is a game I have to go back to at least once more before I die.
Lol I was one of those 10 yo boys. My mom worked payroll for Squaresoft when they were located in Redmond/Kirkland area. She was able to get my brother and I on board the focus group of testing Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana and Secret of Evermore. Good times, such a long time ago.
One of the GOATs during PS1 days... Hope they make a part II of the Chrono series. My favorite of all time by the way, Saved the game more than 50x, but still i crave for more adventure.
Man, watching this really makes me want to boot up the ol 3DS and Vita to play both games. Cross is...well, it's special. It came out the summer we moved to Hawaii and I kind of felt like Surge. I went from being one of a handful of brownies in lily-white Idaho to just being another random person. I looked like I belonged but I didn't feel like it.
Man in a day and age when RUclips doesn't grab my attention anymore I immediately watch and enjoy your videos when ever I can I love what you do and hope you keep being you!
Personally Cross is one off my favorite and memorable JRPGS. They're so different it's very hard to compare. That weird is what makes it stand apart, especially at the time. It was very different for Square at the time but seemed like a similar budget to a Final Fantasy. The music's very good too, the intro is still amazing. It just has this unusual vibe that made it one of the most memorable all these years later. Trigger is much more traditional and similar to FFVI, but a shorter game. It wasn't as memorable for me but I played it after FF VI and Cross so that probably skewed me judgement.
I actually really appreciate the fresh perspective of someone who has just only now played Chrono Trigger and whose opinion isn't influenced by nostalgia. That really says something about the quality of the game. Having played one and then the other much closer to their respective release dates, I find it interesting how much I agree with you. Great video as always.
The real reason why Chrono Cross' story goes all over the place early on is because of the sheer randomness that was Radical Dreamers on the SNES, the now non-canon sequel to Chrono Trigger. The entire Viper Mansion sneaking mission is a huge reference to Radical Dreamer's plot, where Guile's character, Magil, can either be Magus in disguise, a rocker space cop, or a childhood friend of Riddel that's in love with her (so that's Guile, Magus, Karsh, Nikki, and Starky) depending on the ending. Serge looks like a male Nausicaa in her full outfit sans mask, and Kid looks like Kid.
I totally understand everyone's criticisms of Cross but here's the thing. Chrono Cross was my FIRST jrpg. My dad bought it (along with ff10) and was playing it and I was like "what are THOSE!!" When he stopped playing I grabbed the controller and just never put it down. Was the first game I ever spend all night playing. Over 20 years later if I head anything close to the music of this game nostalgia washes over me. This game will always have a special place in my heart.
Chrono Cross was Square’s experiment project on PS disk system. It has two incredible music score and that’s about it. Chrono Trigger on the other hand is Mona Lisa of JRPG and will never eeeeeeever be recreated a-gain.
Just gonna slide in and say I really liked the subversion of expectations with the FIRST half of cross. Working through all the dialogue and hearing tales about his dad and a strange experience with a panther set me up with a, "something is going on" feeling. So the whole FATE piece was actually super enjoyable, and getting to see all that sci fi crammed into my fantasy game (before is was SUPER over done); was really nice. Then the dragons were actually an angry cthulean dinosaur monster that was just playing us... Wasn't the biggest fan of the second half.
I was lucky and didn't play Trigger until after I had beaten Cross. So I went in blind to what most were upset about, I do think that the story pacing does lack, but that music, colorful maps, and complex battle system had me hooked. I had personally loved the twist halfway through the game, and I when it had happened I was so shocked that it had me take a step back and really think. The sudden shift in element alignment forced me to think up different tactics, made me miss being Serge, but by the time you go back you kinda almost end up missing Lynx. The ending didn't make much sense to me, but I was at just the right age where it kinda fueled theories and I would try to analyze every little nook and alt ending. Trigger is built and bend better paced, but Cross has a special place.
You know, I never heard any one describe the lore of cross in a way that makes any sense. I dont think that is a failing of the commenters. It just is not a story that you can follow.
i played both cross and trigger. I actually played through cross initially like 12 times and really loved that game. the plot is quite convoluted there is no doubt about it, and I think thats where a lot of people get mad at it. Trigger in my opinion like you say was a much more straight forward game, but it wasn't as good as cross in my opinion. one of the elements in cross' story is when the first time serge met kid when she saved him, it wasn't the first time kid had met serge. the scene when in kids future serge had to go into her past and rescue her had to been one of the most touching ever in a jrpg. i could go on but ill spare you. eventually when i played through chrono trigger and then learned about where lavos came from and how the reptites are connected to the dragons and the time devourer and how the kingdom of zeal is pretty much responsible for literally every god damn thing. if i had only ever played through chrono cross I would not have known all that. Side note, the glenn in cross isn't the glenn in trigger. they are something like 400 years apart from each other and on different parts of the world.
Nice vid kid. I remember my mom buying Chrono Trigger for my SNES when I was a kid. Greatest game I ever played, probably have more time in that game then all others combined. As I get older and older and head for the grave, if you asked for my favorite video game, CT would be it.
I was one of the lucky few to start Cross first not even being aware of Trigger at the time. I dropped it initially as I got stuck and returned later after the Trigger. With almost no initial expectations it is still quite messy, but much easier to digest. As just a batshit crazy philosophical piece it is.
I don't meet many retro rpg nerds irl but it's cool to see they're still out there, and making RUclips videos about video games that came out over 20 years ago. It's weird, my fascination for these games is as strong as it was when they were new.
To this day I'm not into anime or 99% of RPGs cause of the artwork, but back then chrono triggers art is the thing that caught my eye, So it's funny you say that it didn't catch yours. Quite the opposite.
One character I always felt bad for was schala. She remained trapped and tainted by the sins of her mother and turned his magic into a catastrophic weapon.
Ha you mentioned miguel. He's unforgettable. Back then I don't think most people would have gave up on CC cause it did have the visuals and music. Plus most of the story is good or interesting until the ending. We want to know why surge is alive in one world. The stuff with Mother brain/Fate, and that boss was visually amazing. And bring back the old tyranos. Plus this is the same era that had xenogears. I did almost quit during the hydra fight as that's the first time j had to really think and learn the battle system. And like this video, when I first lost surge's body. But any criticisms towards this games cast and plot dumps is more than fair, it's accurate.
I love both CT and CC, CC i my all-time favorite i'm just here to see how KBash is gonna clown on it. I'm a big boy, i can take my favorite game of all time being clowned on. I am aware of CC's flaws, there's a lot I would change about the game (cut off 50% of the playable cast to begin with) but nevertheless it's still my all-time favorite and I play it once a year. i've beaten CT over fifty times across the years since I first played it and it amazes me how it absolutely never gets old. The fact that SE just WON'T do anything else with this series is a crime.
THANK YOU for defending the choice to not save Kid, too many people make it seem like "the wrong choice", but stuck in a parallel dimension that is both scary and dangerous would understandably leave anyone in a state of confusion and homesickness. Serge is being caught up in an intricate web that he does not really want to be a part of, and the choice does not signify that Serge is a bad person, but that he feels that he is not the right person for the job and just wants to find a way to return home. Glenn joining you actually makes sense thematically; he wants to go to Fort Draconia to find out why the Dragoons have changed so drastically in both goal and temperament as of late and wants HIS life to return to normal, as well.
Chrono Trigger will always be one of my favourite games. I didn’t like Cross when it launched but picked up the remaster on PS5 and really fell in love with it. Understanding you don’t worry about random battles and just boss rush helped a lot lol. Never understood that as a kid.
Played every FF american release, most ran $40-60 in 1990's money. Replayed Chrono Trigger at least a dozen times, but I just couldn't make it through Cross despite blowing $60 of my parent's money on it. I bailed on FF8 too, FWIW. It's like buying a book and after 120 pages, you're just like "Nope, this isn't going to get any better."
Chrono Cross may not be the absolute greatest rpg ever made, but I've always had a soft spot for it. Never finished Trigger. I've always started it, played for a bit, then had to turn my focus to some other more important thing that was going on in my life.
I'm glad to see you correct yourself on Dualtechs thanks to X-strike. God does it get silly with the side quest weapons you can get for both of those characters.
That magical island setting and moody pondering tone the game had really vibed with me when i was 6. I didn't have a memory card so whatever i beat that day was all i saw. Ive played the first disc to death and got to the IRL tower climb on the psp, but i could never finish it. So the ending explains why people have hang ups about this game, it really gets wacky lol. But seeing your video, makes me want to boot up my ps3 and power through it again :)
Excellent summaries! I'd just add that you can finish CC without ever getting the "Chrono Cross" to beat properly the last boss and see the good ending.
Despite the unfathomable lunacy that is Cross, I still love both of these games a lot. The only retro RPG games I can replay from start to finish without it feeling outplayed.
Disappointed that you were put off by Toriyama's designs at first but at least you came around. Cross always seemed to be interesting and I actually got *more* invested after the mindbender, though I hadn't reached the scifi portion yet. I liked the idea of struggling against fate, reminded me of Escaflowne and having the main character's only sin was existing was so mundane that I thought it was interesting. I may think less of it when I see the full lore dumps myself, but as far as the "how would life be different if you never existed?" thought experiment, Cross hits all the boxes for me.
I have never played Trigger, but Cross is potentially my favorite game of all time. Sure, it's a mess, but to me, the game works past it through it's charm. The music, the art, the character interactions. Hell, the way three game takes you aside and makes you ponder life and how things are and could have been. It really is a game that triggers a nostalgia, for me, and I think it was supposed.
if you dont steal that one black armor you might get screwed by that one boss. THAT is what I remember to be most frustraiting of the game - but the song, THE SONG and the movie at the end, and the start - EPIC.
How are your sprites so detailed? Is there an update to Chrono Cross I missed! Haha! Such a great game! Interacting with the same people from each dimension def has some heartstring pulling moments.
I played both Chrono Cross and Chrono Trigger. Cross was more fun but Trigger impacted me more and taught me how things you do can affect the future...it made me always talk to every character in every jrpg... I would have loved if you could have played Chrono in Cross
Fun note I've noticed on my last few playthroughs: If you wander around the castle before giving Marle's father jerky, the castle NPCs talk about the prison guards were ALL hired by the chancellor(the one who is a Yakra) SO WE ARE GUILT FREE ABOUT KILLING THE GUARDS
I was 14 when I played it, and I thought it was comical how they tried to be secretive about it
ACAB
pshhh screw those guards. they picked their side and it was the losing side.
The dungeon arc was basically the only time in CT where the player gets to kill human enemies.
One thing I know about Cross; "Time's Scar" is possibly the greatest intro track to any video game, and possibly any story, that I have ever heard. I have never felt more "FUCK YES, LET'S FUCKING GO, LET'S HAVE AN ADVENTURE" than after hearing that shit.
That song enamored me as a child Chrono cross has always had a way more special place in my heart than trigger but i also played cross first so my opinion is totally skewed
Mate you need to listen to Edge of Soul
@@MadDragonify had it on my iPod back in the day. Good, but different vibe.
Still the best video game song for me. With ar tonelico at the second place
Trigger’s Robo’s Theme sounds like that famous meme
waited the entire video for you to drop how amazing the cross OST is and nothing was said, you did me dirty kbash
It's obvious no tears we're shed to "the girl who stole the stars" and it breaks my heart.
Yeah, good point, I thumb's downed him and Unsubbed too. Unforgivable, thanks for pointing it out
I played cross first. I absolutely understand why people hate it when they tried trigger first. its a complete betrayal to those fans and those expectations. But i really vibe with it, the aesthetic, the combat the pointless tons of characters. bringing a character to meet their alternate dimension self will never get old and the plot is so wacky but works as a vehicle for colourful boss battles. I will always respect the save kid or leave her choice even if i was totally duped by previous games and their "but thou must" attitude blocking me from the one character i wanted to join my party. I have more nostalgia and love for cross even if trigger is undeniably a better designed game. the funniest part to me though is that Cross has one of the best OST's ever but its normal battle theme is the weakest track by a country mile, to the point where the game keeps playing dungeon music over it for tense moments in the story (most of the endgame lol)
I legitimately want to say thank you for this comment. You summed it up extremely well with the expectations line. I always WANTED to like Cross, I have tried it multiple times but I have never been able to jive with it. I honestly wonder how much of that is that it has "Chrono" attached to it. I mean, I loved Legend of Dragoon, and Cross seemed at least comparable to that flawed gem. And yet, soundtrack to gameplay to characters (exceptions abounding) it just never held me. And that always felt like a bit of a shame so I am glad others enjoy it even if I can't.
So, again, thank you and well said.
Sums my thoughts perfectly. The transition from home arni and another makes me cry every time. The music alone is what sells that. It's very human.
LITERALLY NO! Cross is the only type of sequel that there could be. How do you make a sequel to a game with 13 different endings?
@@BinaryDood Probably the same way you do with ANY of the games that have multiple endings, you pick the Canon one and go with it. Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain is one example.
What might be a bigger "do not" is to is slap the name onto something and have the sequel have precious little to do with the prior game in terms of plot, gameplay, or characters.
That seems far more outrageous than, y'know, picking one and rolling with it.
@@fedupN there is no canon one. And games that do that suck. Trigger is about the freedom of choice. Cross made a timecrash to make ALL endings canon, so interesting things could happen by meshing in those you have previosuly seen. Chrono Cross has everything to do with the Trigger. It plays with its broader strokes by denying free-will in a world of pure determinism. it answers the "Entity" question from the previous game. It elaborates on the side.consequences of warping time. It goes into on how humanity only exists because of Lavos, and their evolution being tied with the cosmic parasite. I'm sorry that you would be content with something so simple and cynical as picking the "canon one", as I would not even likely agree with you on which that would be. Not to mention the "Dream Team" would not gather together again, so to build it on the same things Trigger did great at would be fallacious from the get go. Cross is evertyhing that Trigger isn't. Trigger is free will, Cross is determinism. Trigger is to the point, Cross is about everything else around it. Trigger is seemingly simple, Cross is seemingly complex. And in those grounds it carved what Trigger could not. And even if it fails as a game compared to it, its themes bring about the best in Trigger retroactively. Finishing the puzzle of the series.
Chrono Cross not being a "real sequel" is a meme that needs to die. A non-opinion of herd-thought and no value.
13:09 "like slapping crash into final fantasy VII" Considering that you control both an orangish lab rat dog AND an anthropomorphic robot cat on a giant plushie toy, crash doesn't really seem that out of place.
Bruh
"Gotta take back Glenn"
Yea. You don't even need 3 party members. Serge w/ mastermune, and Glenn w/ double einlanzer would steamroll through 99% of the game.
Loved that entire story both kind of Coincide with each other.. Dario being in possession of the corrupted masamume and Glenn being his younger brother searching for his fathers swords or and desiring to be worthy to wield them.
I was waiting for K-bash to talk about Cross. I'm glad he didn't start like other people do and immediately start comparing the cross and trigger. I'm genuinely happy he covered Cross, it's one of my favorite rpgs and it's nice to know I'm not the only one who enjoys it for what it is.
Cross is literally my favorite game of all time.
I'd have expected K to hate chrono cross
@@Grangolus RIGHT? He seems to like this game for the same reasons he dislikes another? I may be miss reading it but hey no one can really help their taste in gaming.
Cross is good as long as you don't try to force it together with Trigger. It's almost like they decided randomly to add Trigger characters in it for LOL's.
Chrono Cross is in some ways more comparable with Xenogears than with Chrono Trigger.
I played Chrono Cross first and it was one of the earliest games that got me hooked on jrpgs as a kid. Chrono Trigger is more widely regarded but i personally enjoyed Cross far more. The music was beautiful and i loved being able to recruit nearly every character.
Thank you! I thought I was the only one!
Same. I fucking feel You on that. I can't speak on the alternate reality where I played Trigger first but I live in this one where I fell in love with Lynx, Kid, Glenn and I regret nothing. Maybe there would be expectations if I played trigger first but here I am about to do another play through of this convoluted masterpiece.
@@Foraskennull I played Chrono Trigger first but I still share your sentiment. Honestly I think a lot of people are just butthurt fans of the first ones and aren't mature enough to appreciate cross for what it is
I love both games
@@sekumusashi7030 It's a confusing mess at least 60% of the time but something about it keeps me coming back. It's a game that I can come back to and just fall in love again. The original I a classic, can't take that away but Cross is something special in its own right you know?
The ending track and leitmotif of Chrono Cross, Radical Dreamers, was the song that inspired me to learn how to play guitar... many decades later in my late 30s. Obviously, that's not an ideal age to learn a complex musical instrument, but damn it, the song was that good And eventually, I pulled it off.
I remember absolutely nothing else about the game, though.
It’s funny you say you don’t particularly like Toriyama’s involvement with CT. That’s exactly what drew me into playing it in the first place as a kid, not even knowing who the hell Toriyama even was. I saw similarities to the dragon ball art style and immediately fell in love with the game. I swear, if Toriyama was not the main art designer for the game, I wouldn’t’ve come to appreciate or care as much about CT in the first place.
Also, it’s the same reason why I never touched CC, even to this day. It didn’t appeal to me without that sweet, sweet Toriyama touch.
The cringiest part of this is that every example he listed came after this game.
Bruh, Z overworked the man so much he had to go back and copy what he did well the first time he drew a guy with a sword. Chrono's design was a genius thing. Don't let the Gen Z experience fool you.
Aaron Lindsey chrono’s design is still one of my favorite designs of all time. I’m telling ya; if SE ever remade this game and they didn’t have Toriyama reprise his role as lead designer, there would be a riot. I hope it happens soon because Toriyama isn’t getting any younger
@@Enidx10 tru
@@aaronlindsey2219 I did some quick searches and CT came out like 4 years later than Trunks debut.
But it's also true than in 95 we hadn't had much exposure to Toriyama. Not that it matters. I don't have a weird expectations of dog protagonists. And Toriyama's designs are fine to good.
Even in this video he mentions they were able to cover drama and comedy better than cross'.
@@DSan-kl2yc Dang, you're right...
And I guess he had all of that other experience with Dragon Quest now that I'm thinking about it.
If there was ever a game that went in one ear and out the other for me, it was Chrono Cross. Got the game when it came out because I loved CT so much, did everything there was to do and I remember none of it. The characters, the story, the music, the setting...pretty much forgotten as soon as the credits started rolling.
I wish I could forget it. I hate it so much, I think it's an insult to Chrono Trigger and the fans.
I agree with you about everything except the music, which remains fucking timeless. But my god are you right about the worst characters of virtually any JRPG, one of the worst stories, and a world that despite the colourful art was so so forgetable. I didn't mind the battle system but the lack of any experience or equipment ruined it. And it has a terrible ending that has nothing to do with the game, and shoves a ton of unearned Chrono Trigger connections in at the end (Lucca dies in a fire running an orphanage, wtf?)
I'm here to have my favorite game get shit on.
Same lol
Anyone that isn't Square who releases a game with the title "Chrono (something)" knows what they're doing: Chronosploitation!
Cross was Chronospolitation lmao. If they had just not tried to make it a Chrono game it likely could've started its own series, or just would've been better received in general.
@@freakyfro99 AGreed.
@@freakyfro99 where do you even go from Trigger? It's so perfectly self-contained, they were kinda forced to pull a Kojima on fans. And decided to experiment the sh.. out of it because at that point why the hell not? It is so incoherent an all over the place BECAUSE it is a true sequel.
Fuck yeah.
@@vsolyomi The answer is nowhere. Just let something be a standalone project and stand on its own feet. They weren't forced to do anything, they tried to milk CT nostalgia by sloppily slapping in links to CT and this project failed to live up to expectations and gets shit on by CT fans all the time because of it.
Your last sentence is just complete nonsense and is just you trying to slap an excuse together tbh. A true sequel discards literally everything that everyone loved about the first game? lmao ok. FF and Dragon Quest have more linking their random unlinked games together than CT and CC do XD
I have not watched the video yet but I will never get over how strong your thumbnail game is
To this day, the notes from "Wind Scene" take me back to my childhood all over again. Love this game, its a masterpiece.
I just wanna, say, her listen here, just wanna say:
I never played Chrono Trigger until last year, so when I say this, my opinion is not being clouded by bias and nostalgia, I played the game for the first time as an adult; Chrono Trigger is a master piece. It is better than Final Fantasy, better than Dragon Quest, it is simply the best JRPG, full stop (that means "period" btw).
Yes.
Anyone that thinks there is something better is a “I don’t like anything good because I’m different and edgy” kind of person.
@Shin Shaman Woah, dude we get it, you have terrible taste. Its fine don't worry about it. We all get better taste eventually, just takes some time. You'll get there.
@Shin Shaman bland in what ways?
Chrono Trigger will forever be the best
glad my homeboy Miguel "HolyDrgSwrd" gets a shoutout
That damned sword almost made me quit cc
@@bkknight I don't blame you. He really is the hardest boss in the game.
@@JameboHayabusa yeah but iwas underleveled on my 1st playthrough. But my 2nd and 3rd, he was easier tho
isn't he implied to be Chrono?
@@kloa4219 No, he's just a friend of Serge's dad, who got the short end of the stick when they ended up in Chronopolis.
I've seen Chrono Trigger described so succinctly yet so vividly.
Pretty much exactly nailed why it's such a high water mark of a video game.
His coverage of trigger is spot on. I wish he talked about the music more.
Kbash is one of my favorite dudes. His energy when yelling shit is fantastic.
Legit. I subbed because his humor!
I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that Trigger is success from simplicity, then Cross answers back with extreme complexity. There's something there with Cross, but it's buried. Trigger is all killer, no filler and that's why I like it.
i still get nightmares of miguel whooping my as with imbecile + holy dragon sword combo
I don't even know if he ever killed me but it was so unexpected. It's not like he transformed. And it's after he tells you this long story. And he doesn't look like a warrior. And he is tough.
And her daughter wields the mighty frying pan that slaps the bejesus of every enemies along the way.
Seriously fuck that boss battle. Whenever I replay Cross, that is one of the battles I get stuck on for a bit.
And let us not forget, when you lose you gotta go through the looooong dialogue again before you fight him, ugh!
I love both and played them near their prime, but Cross does something to me as a gamer that not many have ever done. I feel like engaging in a book.
It's the music, the SFX, the art style, the inclusion, the Battle system, the locations, the characters, the story that ties it all together. Chrono Cross is easily in my top five favorite games.
As confusing as Chrono Cross was I still have a certain fondness for it, if only because El Nido is beautiful
Nothing has ever drawn me to Chrono Cross so much as a sacred lickaroo from Lickey the cat
I remember and rate games based on their story and how effective it was at delivering that story. A great story-driven RPG I can almost recite the whole story. Final Fantasy 6/7/8/9, Chrono Trigger, even open world games like Fallout and TES: Morrowind. I tend to spend a lot of time with good RPGs. Even after 10 years since I last played them, I can talk about major events in those games. The characters, etc.
That said, the most damning criticism I can levy at Chrono Cross is that I don't remember it. What I remember is that I spent the better part of a year playing through Chrono Cross after it came out - trying out different party combinations, going through and making different choices. I know I did that. But, watching retrospectives like this - there's a ton of stuff that I don't remember. There's scenes that I'm watching that feel like I'm watching for the first time because I don't recall any of it.
What I remember is the ending, that the last fight basically is just a Simon game of getting the right color combination. That Guile was supposed to be Magus, but wasn't (and that he didn't have any special connection to the characters). I remember that the game insinuates a bad ending for the cast of Chrono Trigger. I remember this being a beautiful game. But this story? I don't recall anything. I'm watching this retrospective, and it is like I'm seeing the game for the first time. I don't recall this story, and thus, I don't recall this game.
If you asked me what Chrono Cross was about, the best I could come up with would be "Fantasy princess from another game gets trapped with a time-bending eldritch abomination and drops a clone of herself into a parallel dimension because she once heard a kid cry." And that's it. I don't think it's good that is all I remember of Chrono Cross.
*PTSD flashbacks of getting clapped by Dario*
My 2 favorite games of all time are chrono cross and legend of dragoon. I'd really love to see you cover it some day.
Chrono Trigger is the closest we’ll have to an RPG collaboration of Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest
.........Fuck youre right.
That’s what blue dragon is
Blue Dragon?
@@blindOni Blue Dragon !
Chrono trigger’s got to be one of the best rpgs ever made in my eyes
Up there with Xenogears for me
I used to love JRPGs in my teens but I hit a phase where I just couldn't get into them anymore for several years. Until I finally sat down to play the copy of Chrono Trigger I had been putting off for over a year. Totally sucked me in and reawakened my love for the genre.
I find it interesting that at least two games have tried to be a modern Chrono Trigger.
FF13-2 used a similar time travel system to make up for the linearity of the prior entry.
I Am Setsuna copied the gameplay of Trigger while trying to...retell FF10 at least from what I saw of it before I lost interest.
Neither game is bad and I whole heartedly love 13-2 but neither even comes close to the excellence of Trigger.
KBash and Chrono Trigger. What a lovely day!
Heavily prefer Trigger sans any insults
However I feel like Cross is a whole unique experience, how many games can you get such a vast roaster of mythical creatures, aliens, dogs and characters from prior entries just from making a different choice? I can have three people play it and they could all come out with completely different parties based on their outlooks and choices.
Where else will you find endearing interactions with NPCS or goofy ones like the one at the end of the video.
I kinda miss that time when RPGS/JRPGS could be both deep in terms of story and still have fun and silly interactions; nowadays games take themselves too seriously so you wont run into that much anymore unless it's a persona or dragon quest game. (couple of really good jrpgs) and since alot of role playing games have started adopting realistic styles it be a bit silly which is why you dont see the same charm the old ff7 had like throwing biggs into the camera because J/RGPS have now turned into Business first; everything must be serious and when it's silly its more based on cringe slap stick than genuine humor.
It's a shame we lost that with older games, that all being said still plenty of good ones but I also loved when the creators had fun with characters jumping, or someone running into them and they spin like a top then fall over like a toy and so on.
"Success through simplicity to superfluous complexity", now thats a phrase if i ever heard one, NOOOICE. guess thats what u get for men children complaining the OG was too eaasy.
Plot and mechanics-wise, Chrono Cross is a mess. But it had the most beautiful, hardware-pushing visuals and such memorable music. I would still keep it in my PS1 library just to re-experience the first time I was amazed by its looks.
So much to say and validate but I will just say good job for making the dragon ball analogies so clean and well. Like wow man you really did an incredible job here in so many ways.
It actually doesn’t feel like a yt video where you’re making sure you check off boxes like .discuss music, reiterate it’s an J rpg, and the tired old ‘ it sequel Nani?! ‘
Back then when trigger came out the script translation was really a huge upgrade from other RPGs of the time, with the exception of FF3. When it came to Cross the depth of the script was mindblowing at the time.
One of my favorite parts is where Miguel describes how one future must die for another to live. It was just really well translated and very deep.
For a teenager at the time, Cross was philosophical. No other word describes it; it left you confused but awed.
I've only ever played Chrono Cross, but Yasunori Mitsuda's soundtrack for it is something quite endearing.
Man, I loved both games for different reasons. Chrono Trigger gave me the choice to explore the ending that I wanted. Chrono Cross made me experience plot twists one after the other. They're different games that, to be honest, didn't need to be connected in the first place, but they did it anyway. It's like Megaman and Megaman X: shares a name, presents different themes. Or say the Final Fantasy games: shares a name, presents different themes.
I don't think it's a bad thing to experience games with shared names in completely different ways. Think about it this way: at least you experienced something.
I played Cross First and its one of my favorite games ever, even w all the space time weirdness. I still haven't given Trigger much time (emulated it a few years back but stopped a few hours in), but I think this is what's going to push me to finally giving it a real shot.
Chrono Cross is my favorite RPG of all time to this day and I've played both of these. Both were amazing but Cross did something more for me.
@Shin Shaman i think a lot more people would be able to enjoy it if they just looked at it as an individual game instead of being so fixated on it being a far departure from the game it was considered a sequel to. If someone played Cross first without any of that context in mind I feel like its much easier to do that
Have you thought about covering Legend of Dragoon?
Thisssss ^^^
The most mediocre ass, over hyped/rated JRPG on PS1. Suuuure.
@@TheBig451 somebody got lost on disk 2
@@aaronlindsey2219 Lavitz dying ruin your experience?
I think Chrono Cross is more of a sequel to Radical Dreamers than it ever is to Trigger. I love Chrono Cross as a game, but only sorta like it as a Chrono Trigger sequel.
No, it is a sequel to Radical Dreamers, loll
Its ok to be wrong
Some thoguhts/discussions I had about the Chrono Series:
The way I see it, Trigger is Free Will and Cross is Determinism. And in the good ending of CC you achieve Compatibilism. Your video is probably the best on Chrono Cross on RUclips for not falling in the same pitfalls everyone does. We agree on most things and I applaud you for bringing to the forefront most of the things you did. But there is a thing omitted in your reading of the story:
"Humanity is the offspring of Lavos"
About half of the story of Chrono Cross I sort of predicted while playing Chrono Trigger for the first time, having 0 idea of Cross's story. This is because CC is a very thematic game. Its brush strokes are far more important than its plot points. And Lavos' biology was the key to understanding everything about CT's structure and story, and IMO, in my first reading, I considered the ENTITY to be the hypothetical Lavos' final form, had Chrono not stopped it and it went on other further planets with the cycle of creating and destroying civilizations for it's own end of absorbing their useful data and energy until they become useless: as it is in it's nature. A God furnace, for the perfect being. That being would lie beyond time alltogether. However, Schalla, falling into it in an eternal instant, became part of a dilema over the entire fate of the universe and humanity alongside it.
Both Kid and the Frozen Flame are the respectful avatars for Schalla and Lavos. They were put into the world to be apart of its collective causality with the purpose of seeing who wins, what the answer is to the argument: "Are humans, not being apart of the planet, fit to be live among the ecossystem when, in their inevitable progress, they can only hurt it?".
Schalla (a human): Yes
Lavos ("creator" of humans): No
"It all began with Nu. It all will end with Nu." It is a Nu that tells you in Zeal a sequence of elements to open sealed doors. Likely the sequence on the chrono cross is a much ancient melody like the Nu's themselves, the same type of elemental sequence they gave you in Trigger but much more ancient and important (it being longer, using more elements, being somewhat of a proof). The song is called "Life", borrowing leitmotif from Schalla's theme, I assume it is the first melody of the universe, once the first being started being able to understand things like rythm, awareness of play in sound. Humanity, if being able to understand this, and not merely paving their way taking everything for granted acording to their will, would be in agreement with Schalla's argument. Understanding the melody is being in tune with the idea that everyone is apart of the "golden chain" Schalla speaks off, that your past is not the sole writer of your destiny (planets are eggs, Lavos is the seed, impregnating them. But you are not merely your DNA). By merely killing the Devourer of Time AKA The Entity, who has orchestrated everything in this game of destiny for finding an answer to the dilema, you are agreeing with Lavos on humanity's destructive nature, us being incompatible with the borad homeostasis of the planet due to having originated from an outer place. Lavos is the "other" to all the things in the world, yet it seeded the fate of those not meant to be (us). Take note on when Lavos decides to rise from the earth being at around the same time AI reached sentience and power. Likely humanity were not the apex leaders of the world and would serve no more use to Lavos, hence passing the torch to Mother Brain and eliminating Humanity, the inbetweners of the Natural and the Artificial. Ending the Entity's life at the Darkness Beyond time would be in agreement to Lavos' will, which would also be a death wish from it's part, as having attained its perfect form and existing outside of time, it has been living for an eternity, and having served its purpose there would be no reason to exist the moment it's point is proved. And since it is outside of time, an eternity is also an instant, so while Schalla and Lavos were wainting infinitely for your answer to their question, they also got their answer immedeatily as they became intemporal.
Hence Chrono is a child of Will, everything you/he does in Trigger is a direct forward action that stems from the natural way you play a game. Chrono would be dead before any of the events he decides to take part in would affect him, but he is in tune with the player who has the will to see things through. Therefore you completely change the world, altering the future y altering the past, you are a sculptor and the planet is the mold. But Serge is a child of Fate, everything he takes part in ends up being a bigger the game than the one he thought he was playing, every single one of his moves a subversion from a highger party trying to shape the world as their own clay (Balthazar, Lynx, Chronopolis, Dinopolis...). You, Serge, are a piece, not the player. Not even an owner of his own life, the game makes it clear, the first meaningful thing he encounters is the notice of his own death, in the past. When you use the song of the elements in the the Darkness beyond Time, you/Serge are crossing from this deterministic point of view to a compatibilist one. Crossing from Lavos' argument to Schalla, from fate to will. Because the game made it clear that actions have consequences. What you did in Trigger was great from your point of view, but imagine all the futures that never happened. By putting one piece in motion, you make others fall, and even you were a piece at some point yourself. You can't disprove determinism, Lavos is correct, Fate is correct, Balthazar is correct, Miguel is correct. But you can choose at every instance to take the "other" turn. Kid developted her own personality, being a child of the world, despite being a vehicle for another being's purpose. The Frozen Flame stayed put. Compatibilism says that though determinism being very real, that is something we cannot consider every aspect of at our every moment, so the very illusion of Free Will ends up being "real". That seems to be the only way for the destructive progress of humanity to coexist with the ancient nature, a fleeting hope. But that is up to the players themselves, should you go through the labor of finding and figuring out the chrono cross. If you do not, you are on Lavos' argument's linear path.
I agree on Cross's pacing and storytelling and battlesystem being a mess. If anything, its biggest virtue is making Trigger even better, as all these elements make it so much richer that it is hard to diassociate them from the Lore. I can't think of Trigger wihout Cross after playing the latter. If Chrono Break was ever made I would like it to be acording to the Compatibalist nature of Cross's ending. A game were instead of intereacting with past and future you interact directly with alternate timelines, like in Cross, but with the freedom of Trigger. Perhaps changing many alternate futures of leading to Lavos. Imagine many cults of alternate timelines WANTING to be Lavos, that it was a method of being closer to The Entity, and in a way or another these many timelines would end up merging with it. And your turn is to put a brake to those timelines. Breaking their connection to Lavos, and perhaps later down the line it would be brought up if the Lavos' part of the Entity diserves to win in some timelines. Perhaps Schala becoming the the wider supremacy for unallowing Lavos to win due to your actions depending on how many timelines you would "Break".
It is this type of speculation that makes Cross so rich. Even the combination of the painted background and the music gives the vibe of a world that doesn't need "say" but just "be". Look how blue nearly every aspect of Cross's world is, now see how red the Frozen Flame is. Red being the warmest color: forward motion, entropy. Blue being the coolest: stillness, serene, calm. Once it is all over, there are more hours in your life you didn't spend playing Chrono Cross than those you did. Because of that, making the game so strong thematically and artistically brilliant might have been a far better option than attempting cohesiveness of events in a plot that would naturally dissipate in memory over time. Cross works as a deconstruction of Trigger due to that.
There are other details that people tend to miss. Schalla's hair being blonde because Zealots tried to differentiate themselves from Earthbound Ones by painting their hair blue. And she being much younger in Cross being possibly due to dividing herself when lending her power to her avatar: Kid. She had infinite years to figure out how but in the end she was only human, Lavos being the furnace of God, progenitor of all humans, would have a much easier time when creating its own avatar. The Frozen Flame would be like other spawns, just with more dedicated power from Lavos. Something that could be replaced on Lavos' end, non-unique. Kid, on the other end, is unique, showcasing Schalla's side of the argument.
Chrono Trigger 2 is a physical impossibility. The Dream Team would not assemble again. The expectations would be to high to trully satisfy anyone. And a "sequel" in the Chrono Trigger universe simply can't happen traditionally as it would force the developer to choose a "canon" ending out of the possibility of many, a key aspect that defines the game. The Deus Ex series did this and I hated it. If anything is to be made in the Chrono series, it needs to be special, that is much more important than even being "good". That is why I would never trust anyone in Squeenix to attempt a game in this series.
Thank you for you video for spelling out many of the things I thought and felt while playing the game, and dispelling the terrible arguments people tend to have about it online, spreading false information to find an easy answer to a complicated game, like you said.
Sorry for any spelling mistakes, not my first language. Overall there is so much to be said about these games that any vastly unuanced reading makes me think what people even saw in these games in the first place.
I remember my idea of "Humans are only alive because of a meteor who came from space and extinguished the natural inherithors of the planet thus creating the cycle of progress and hurt from their advancement in the ecossystem" becoming more and more enchanced in vocabulary and thought as I grew older, something that originated in a seemingly simple game such as Chrono Trigger. The negative space between the many parts of Trigger, constantly playing off one another leaves room for some surprisingly insightfullness. Perhaps the polar opposite of teaching Shakespear, by schollars considered exit level literature, to a 10 year old, who lacks the capacity and vocabulary to understand the events and words and themes of such a work. I perhaps owe Trigger a lot for giving me so many present interests of mine, stemed from what was and wasn't said in its superstructure of music, story and gameplay.
I should also mention that many games around this time from Square, in their golden age, share many themes and simmilairaties. You probably knows the gist: Secret of Mana was meant to be Chrono Trigger, Chrono Trigger was meant to be Final Fantasy 7. and FF7 was meant to be Xenogears (or vice-versa idk).
Xenogears and Chrono Cross came around about the same time. There is in both games a room with Seave Points being manufactured my a higher civilization/facility. They have the same meaning but different particularities in each game. In Xenogears is because Solaris consider the people of the planet of being sheep to be herded, and everyone in the world has a limiter to their abilities and their data is collected to be managed. In Chrono Cross is the same thing for for Chronopolis, that through Fate supervises every single piece moving in this elaborate game of theirs.
I bring this up because in Xenogears every human being is "incomplete", they are originally apart of Deus but were divided from the main body to develop to a "complete" state so they can be whole again with their creator. This to me sounds like Lavos allowing humanity to exist and develop in order to be harvested. In Xenogears this is used as a metaphor: That God created angels to have only one wing so that in their incomplete state they had to help each other to fly by holding hands. This is in tune with Xenogear's fractured experience. One separated from their past and their present, and even their psyche. I wonder if that metaphor can be used in Chrono Cross as well as the other shared themes. Humanity incomplete, lacking full wings to fly on their own, forever the progeny of Lavos and acting destructively as such. This sort of duality is what I like in older Square games. Even Final Fantasy 7 has a better ecological and worldy message than most things its type tend to have.
"
Eutimio Longoria
Há 2 meses (editado)
I like how you pointed out humans being the “step children” of Lavos. Humanity originated from Nature but coming into Lavos changed humans fundamentally (like being able to use Magic instead of Elements). Lavos destructive tendencies thus carried over to humans.
After playing through Cross it made some aspects of Trigger stand out. Like the Ice Age. I interpret that as the planet trying to cause the extinction of humanity. And that Lavos arose not solely because of the Mammon Machine but because it interfered to keep humanity alive because they had not fulfilled their purpose yet. Notice how the weather becomes milder after Lavos arises.
"
Chrono Trigger is about free will, your characters could live life and nothing would affect them, it is your will as a player that molds every outcome of the world by using those characters as proxy.
Chrono Cross is about determinism. Fate is everywhere. Game starts with your character dead already. Everything you do, every outcome has been part of a bigger game by bigger entities. Even the savepoints, every npc, the world map, etc are part of that fate that you cant break.
Until the final moments of the good ending (should you be able to find the sequence that males the melody of "LIFE") and you break those two notions apart from the eternal dilemma of Schalla/Lavos = The Entity (spoken in Chrono Trigger) and achieve "Compatibilism" as a midterm(edited)
after all, by defeating Lavos humanity proves being its offspring by following the destroyer's path
layed out for them
that is why I defend the theory that the NU's were the universe's first living beings
"All came from NU and all ends with NU"
relatively simple beings, but in that simplicity they are far more attuned to the universe
in Zeal a Nu gives you a sequence to open a secret door. Wind, Fire and Water in a specific sequence
Chrono Cross's sequence is very much like that one, much older. The oldest in fact. And that is follow's Schalla's leitmotif, and as she lives beyond time itself, it could have been layed there since the beginning of time just so humanity could one day find it to free her and prove that they can remove their shackles from fate.(edited)
it is a very conceptual game
Lavos/The Frozen Flame is very red
The world, the ocean, is very blue
that is a necessary opposition. It communicates Blue as being something inner and Red being something outer.
like Serge and Kid
Time fixes itself. Schalla didnt forget anything, what you are saying assumes a linearity of time that Chrono Cross does not. Like I said, it was very conceptual. Schalla took everything that happened as she as wished since the beginning of time. Because those experiences were also predetermined you could say only after the game is over do they truly have freedom to chose. Hence that would be the "real" journey, and yours was just the awakening of Schalla.(edited)
Considering Trigger was already a "real journey" itself, I'm fine with this deconstruction. Not all stories need to be a consequential triumph of our main characters. It doesn't have to last forever.
It is kind of like the End of Evangelion. Humanity is gone, but lives on through Unit 1.
Here, the humanity that was gone from the timeline we played lives on through Schalla.
Chrono Trigger offers far more freedom of choice than any JRPG at the time, and still more than most nowadays. Your characters come from a place were the threat on the world would not affect them so essentially their will is the same as yours, the player, "To watch events unfold", like Robo/Luca speculated in the campfire scene, labeling it "The Entity". Just because it isn't put directly into question with its anthesis it doesn't mean it is not about it. Even calling it "meta-textual" doesn't cover it because games are so much more than the script and even the presented linearity of the story. Every part of Trigger is about choice, and that determined fate you contrast is the Day of Lavos in 1999. if anything, just on the many different ways you can defeat Lavos and the Black Omen as well showcases the multitude of possiblities on how any particular players can defeat "fate" in any particular way... particularly
but the Dragons themselves are something else entirely
their basis for "humanity the virus" ends up not being present phisically in the world as you see it
but in potentiality, as they know what humanity truly is, and the multiple possible futures awaiting
the Dragons are antithesis to Lavos as they were supposed to be the natural evolution of the planet's lifeforms into sentience, and humanity being alive only because of the parasitic "Lavos the Stranger" (to the planet, thus deviating the evolutionary line) AKA its "offspring". Given this humanity's sole existence is the opposite to the normal flow of the planet had it not been present. It is not so much an environmental message but a concern with one of main high parties of the game against the other, when both are competing for the existence of their own timelines. It comes across as environmentalist but really it is weaponized by the Dragons/Reptites to ward off against what they consider a threat. The game at its very end doesn't take a main stance on either side. Only the chrono cross allows to cut ties with Lavos by playing the ancestral melody of life to prove that humanity need not be parasitic, etc etc. Imagine that (example) the Cetra knew that Midgar from FF7 is going to be a thing, even before it exists, just by knowing what and how humans are (since the Dragons are entities from a future that was lost it helps). They would likely do everything in their power to stop it before it had a chance.
Kbash I just wanted to say your channel is great and I really like how you do your videos.
I would really like that you get a boom in RUclips, you are one of the few that still upload incredible vídeos and its a shame how undersub you are
Love you
I love chrono cross, its a masterpiece and i like it even more than trigger. The combat its way more complex than the one in trigger, amazing OST, great scenarios and atmosphere, hell the story of kid and harle warm my heart. Definitely my favorite jrpg!
Here's the real question: How did Dalton convince a peaceful port town to turn into a continental military superpower in a matter of five years?
The answer is there in the game... If my memory doesn't fail me, he fed the town technological advancements that put that town in a massive military advantage to overwhelm any other. But I could be remembering it wrong, it's been 12 years since I last played it.
@@FarawayBrawlHacks That is correct, he introduced them to the grid system and infiltrated their military. He's also the person who stole the Masamune and seemingly murdered Crono and Marle. And in the extra content for the DS he even warns the player about not taking him seriously.
@@SerpentineDeity damn he proved his point
@@DSan-kl2yc What makes this funny is that in a way it was all Crono and friend's fault. Due to their time-meddling the Porre Mayor bloodline passed along the message of kindness and trustfulness. This made it easy for Dalton to win over the Mayor and get his funding.
@@SerpentineDeity Seems like a load of crap to me. What cause would Porre have to disturb 400 years of peace for some ridiculous continental military campaign?
I played cross first and then played trigger. I always go back to cross because I just love the island theme aesthetic of the game. I also think the battle system is complex at first but very rewarding once you understand it. And of course, the ost is one of the best I've heard in my life. I would love to see a remastered version but that's almost imposible in the near future. This is a game I have to go back to at least once more before I die.
Lol I was one of those 10 yo boys. My mom worked payroll for Squaresoft when they were located in Redmond/Kirkland area. She was able to get my brother and I on board the focus group of testing Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana and Secret of Evermore. Good times, such a long time ago.
One of the GOATs during PS1 days... Hope they make a part II of the Chrono series. My favorite of all time by the way, Saved the game more than 50x, but still i crave for more adventure.
Man, watching this really makes me want to boot up the ol 3DS and Vita to play both games.
Cross is...well, it's special. It came out the summer we moved to Hawaii and I kind of felt like Surge. I went from being one of a handful of brownies in lily-white Idaho to just being another random person. I looked like I belonged but I didn't feel like it.
Damn, that hit pretty hard. Same with moving for me.
2:23 I love how self aware he was at this moment because I was getting angrier not knowing his opinion.
But you're missing the game that glues them both together Radical Dreamers.
Man in a day and age when RUclips doesn't grab my attention anymore I immediately watch and enjoy your videos when ever I can I love what you do and hope you keep being you!
" looking at you disgusting Alien _FREAK-_ " kbash, 2021
Personally Cross is one off my favorite and memorable JRPGS. They're so different it's very hard to compare. That weird is what makes it stand apart, especially at the time. It was very different for Square at the time but seemed like a similar budget to a Final Fantasy. The music's very good too, the intro is still amazing. It just has this unusual vibe that made it one of the most memorable all these years later. Trigger is much more traditional and similar to FFVI, but a shorter game. It wasn't as memorable for me but I played it after FF VI and Cross so that probably skewed me judgement.
I actually really appreciate the fresh perspective of someone who has just only now played Chrono Trigger and whose opinion isn't influenced by nostalgia. That really says something about the quality of the game. Having played one and then the other much closer to their respective release dates, I find it interesting how much I agree with you. Great video as always.
The real reason why Chrono Cross' story goes all over the place early on is because of the sheer randomness that was Radical Dreamers on the SNES, the now non-canon sequel to Chrono Trigger. The entire Viper Mansion sneaking mission is a huge reference to Radical Dreamer's plot, where Guile's character, Magil, can either be Magus in disguise, a rocker space cop, or a childhood friend of Riddel that's in love with her (so that's Guile, Magus, Karsh, Nikki, and Starky) depending on the ending. Serge looks like a male Nausicaa in her full outfit sans mask, and Kid looks like Kid.
That burning orphanage part on Chrono Cross is my favorite gaming moment
I totally understand everyone's criticisms of Cross but here's the thing. Chrono Cross was my FIRST jrpg. My dad bought it (along with ff10) and was playing it and I was like "what are THOSE!!" When he stopped playing I grabbed the controller and just never put it down. Was the first game I ever spend all night playing. Over 20 years later if I head anything close to the music of this game nostalgia washes over me. This game will always have a special place in my heart.
Chrono Cross was Square’s experiment project on PS disk system. It has two incredible music score and that’s about it. Chrono Trigger on the other hand is Mona Lisa of JRPG and will never eeeeeeever be recreated a-gain.
Just gonna slide in and say I really liked the subversion of expectations with the FIRST half of cross. Working through all the dialogue and hearing tales about his dad and a strange experience with a panther set me up with a, "something is going on" feeling. So the whole FATE piece was actually super enjoyable, and getting to see all that sci fi crammed into my fantasy game (before is was SUPER over done); was really nice. Then the dragons were actually an angry cthulean dinosaur monster that was just playing us... Wasn't the biggest fan of the second half.
I was lucky and didn't play Trigger until after I had beaten Cross. So I went in blind to what most were upset about, I do think that the story pacing does lack, but that music, colorful maps, and complex battle system had me hooked. I had personally loved the twist halfway through the game, and I when it had happened I was so shocked that it had me take a step back and really think. The sudden shift in element alignment forced me to think up different tactics, made me miss being Serge, but by the time you go back you kinda almost end up missing Lynx. The ending didn't make much sense to me, but I was at just the right age where it kinda fueled theories and I would try to analyze every little nook and alt ending. Trigger is built and bend better paced, but Cross has a special place.
jesus, the end where that lady jumps into the ocean to swim back had me laughing hard as hell.
You know, I never heard any one describe the lore of cross in a way that makes any sense. I dont think that is a failing of the commenters. It just is not a story that you can follow.
i played both cross and trigger. I actually played through cross initially like 12 times and really loved that game. the plot is quite convoluted there is no doubt about it, and I think thats where a lot of people get mad at it. Trigger in my opinion like you say was a much more straight forward game, but it wasn't as good as cross in my opinion. one of the elements in cross' story is when the first time serge met kid when she saved him, it wasn't the first time kid had met serge. the scene when in kids future serge had to go into her past and rescue her had to been one of the most touching ever in a jrpg. i could go on but ill spare you.
eventually when i played through chrono trigger and then learned about where lavos came from and how the reptites are connected to the dragons and the time devourer and how the kingdom of zeal is pretty much responsible for literally every god damn thing. if i had only ever played through chrono cross I would not have known all that.
Side note, the glenn in cross isn't the glenn in trigger. they are something like 400 years apart from each other and on different parts of the world.
Nice vid kid. I remember my mom buying Chrono Trigger for my SNES when I was a kid. Greatest game I ever played, probably have more time in that game then all others combined. As I get older and older and head for the grave, if you asked for my favorite video game, CT would be it.
9:32 Actully the design is Arale from Dr Slump
😲 Oh my God, one of my favorite games of all time. Can't believe I didn't get a notification for this. Thank you. K-Bash!!!!!
I was one of the lucky few to start Cross first not even being aware of Trigger at the time. I dropped it initially as I got stuck and returned later after the Trigger. With almost no initial expectations it is still quite messy, but much easier to digest. As just a batshit crazy philosophical piece it is.
There's a lot to dissect from it, but that makes it art I think
You should play Radical Dreamers to fill some gaps
I don't meet many retro rpg nerds irl but it's cool to see they're still out there, and making RUclips videos about video games that came out over 20 years ago. It's weird, my fascination for these games is as strong as it was when they were new.
You should check out Marsh, he covers classic SMT and its spinning offs, absolutely amazing games
To this day I'm not into anime or 99% of RPGs cause of the artwork, but back then chrono triggers art is the thing that caught my eye, So it's funny you say that it didn't catch yours. Quite the opposite.
Can kbash talk about the history of zanethepure and zanetheimpure? I don't know, hearing those names back to back gives me a chuckle.
One character I always felt bad for was schala. She remained trapped and tainted by the sins of her mother and turned his magic into a catastrophic weapon.
0:15 he has every anime protag's haircut all at once.
Ha you mentioned miguel. He's unforgettable. Back then I don't think most people would have gave up on CC cause it did have the visuals and music.
Plus most of the story is good or interesting until the ending. We want to know why surge is alive in one world. The stuff with Mother brain/Fate, and that boss was visually amazing. And bring back the old tyranos.
Plus this is the same era that had xenogears.
I did almost quit during the hydra fight as that's the first time j had to really think and learn the battle system. And like this video, when I first lost surge's body.
But any criticisms towards this games cast and plot dumps is more than fair, it's accurate.
The masterpieces are here
I love both CT and CC, CC i my all-time favorite i'm just here to see how KBash is gonna clown on it. I'm a big boy, i can take my favorite game of all time being clowned on. I am aware of CC's flaws, there's a lot I would change about the game (cut off 50% of the playable cast to begin with) but nevertheless it's still my all-time favorite and I play it once a year. i've beaten CT over fifty times across the years since I first played it and it amazes me how it absolutely never gets old. The fact that SE just WON'T do anything else with this series is a crime.
THANK YOU for defending the choice to not save Kid, too many people make it seem like "the wrong choice", but stuck in a parallel dimension that is both scary and dangerous would understandably leave anyone in a state of confusion and homesickness. Serge is being caught up in an intricate web that he does not really want to be a part of, and the choice does not signify that Serge is a bad person, but that he feels that he is not the right person for the job and just wants to find a way to return home. Glenn joining you actually makes sense thematically; he wants to go to Fort Draconia to find out why the Dragoons have changed so drastically in both goal and temperament as of late and wants HIS life to return to normal, as well.
So we're ever closer to the Saga Frontier video.
Chrono Trigger will always be one of my favourite games. I didn’t like Cross when it launched but picked up the remaster on PS5 and really fell in love with it. Understanding you don’t worry about random battles and just boss rush helped a lot lol. Never understood that as a kid.
Played every FF american release, most ran $40-60 in 1990's money. Replayed Chrono Trigger at least a dozen times, but I just couldn't make it through Cross despite blowing $60 of my parent's money on it.
I bailed on FF8 too, FWIW. It's like buying a book and after 120 pages, you're just like "Nope, this isn't going to get any better."
Played Chrono Trigger but never played Cross. Thanks for this, keep making these videos KBash!!!
Hyped to see this, Id love for you to do videos on xenosaga sometime thatd be a blast xD
Chrono Cross may not be the absolute greatest rpg ever made, but I've always had a soft spot for it. Never finished Trigger. I've always started it, played for a bit, then had to turn my focus to some other more important thing that was going on in my life.
I'm glad to see you correct yourself on Dualtechs thanks to X-strike. God does it get silly with the side quest weapons you can get for both of those characters.
20:30 This man out here really used the Mega Man Zero klaxon. Don't think I didn't pick up on that.
That magical island setting and moody pondering tone the game had really vibed with me when i was 6. I didn't have a memory card so whatever i beat that day was all i saw. Ive played the first disc to death and got to the IRL tower climb on the psp, but i could never finish it. So the ending explains why people have hang ups about this game, it really gets wacky lol.
But seeing your video, makes me want to boot up my ps3 and power through it again :)
Excellent summaries! I'd just add that you can finish CC without ever getting the "Chrono Cross" to beat properly the last boss and see the good ending.
chrono trigger is the game version of akira, well thought and beautifully made.
Chrono Cross. One of my favorite games. I actually played it before Trigger and I love both.
Thank you for covering these games.
People need to talk more about these games
I just want you to know that I saw what you did with that Street Fighter Tatsu reference and I appreciate it
Despite the unfathomable lunacy that is Cross, I still love both of these games a lot. The only retro RPG games I can replay from start to finish without it feeling outplayed.
Disappointed that you were put off by Toriyama's designs at first but at least you came around. Cross always seemed to be interesting and I actually got *more* invested after the mindbender, though I hadn't reached the scifi portion yet. I liked the idea of struggling against fate, reminded me of Escaflowne and having the main character's only sin was existing was so mundane that I thought it was interesting. I may think less of it when I see the full lore dumps myself, but as far as the "how would life be different if you never existed?" thought experiment, Cross hits all the boxes for me.
I was 13 when I first played cross and everything you just described about it was what nailed the game to my heart at that time.
Ah yes ! this is why i sub to your channel, to get some info about good old games.
Within 3 mins you got me excited. Now I'll be back at the end of the video.
Thank you K-Bash. I don't think I'll ever play either games and trust your judgement on it. You got me on 214+K
Something tells he will have issues with Xenogears. Also surprised yet not surprised that he did not mention the Radical Dreamers interqual.
I have never played Trigger, but Cross is potentially my favorite game of all time. Sure, it's a mess, but to me, the game works past it through it's charm. The music, the art, the character interactions. Hell, the way three game takes you aside and makes you ponder life and how things are and could have been. It really is a game that triggers a nostalgia, for me, and I think it was supposed.
if you dont steal that one black armor you might get screwed by that one boss. THAT is what I remember to be most frustraiting of the game - but the song, THE SONG and the movie at the end, and the start - EPIC.
How are your sprites so detailed? Is there an update to Chrono Cross I missed! Haha! Such a great game! Interacting with the same people from each dimension def has some heartstring pulling moments.
same i just started playing chrono trigger for the first time this year but i love it already!!
I played both Chrono Cross and Chrono Trigger. Cross was more fun but Trigger impacted me more and taught me how things you do can affect the future...it made me always talk to every character in every jrpg... I would have loved if you could have played Chrono in Cross