Attempting to Explain More Kirby Lore in a Single Video
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- Опубликовано: 29 май 2022
- The Kirby cinematic universe just got crazier.
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And here we are!
Cool
PTSD activates
You son of a…
“ID-F86!”
Welcome visitors!
I loved it when kirby jumped out of the portal and said "its kirbin time" and kirbed all over the place
Dude i loved jared poyo's role as dr karl kirbius
*Kirbius*
#KirbiusSweep
IT'S KORBIN' TIME
That movie had broken the humor of the internet.
One thing about Morpho Knight that I think is worth mentioning is that the Morpho Knight Sword figure description states:
"Before the final battle, a fluttering fiend arrives to cast its judgment. This dangerous weapon grants that form to any who wield it. For Kirby, handling this power is...a breeze."
So as immensely powerful as Morpho Knight is, Kirby is able to wield it's power as easily as any of his other copy abilities. Maybe this could lend further credence to Kirby being Dark Matter filled with positive energy as that would link both Kirby and Morpho to Chaos.
Kirby is probably more powerful than Morpho Knight, with various cutscenes having the butterfly land on him. Morpho has always been trying to consume Kirby, with the butterfly appearing anywhere around him (i.e. Forgo Dreams) and consuming other powerful beings in order to manifest and finish him off.
I'd say that Kirby isn't necessarily a dark matter filled with positivity, but a manifestation of Void filled with positivity. It's pretty much established that Void is the source of both, just negative energy makes the Void more into Darkmatter than into something like Kirby.
I think Kirby is in the same boat as Dark Matter, A Descendant from one of void's possibly countless reincarnations.
@@COCO-tm3gp It's also possibly not out of trying to consume Kirby, but hanging out near him because he attracts old entities up to shenanigans.
didn't they say void termina was the negative incarnation? if that's the case, what's void? i guess this incarnation thing could be a lot more complicated than positive or negative
One thing I love about Kirby lore is no matter how complicated it is, you can still boil it down to "the power of friendship and positive emotions and defeat any evil and negative emotions"
"A cute creature defeats evil beings of bad vibes with good vibes." Sounds like a children's cartoon, until you realize "begins of bad vibes" includes terraria's wall of flesh
@@juststardust9816Well, Kirby is technically for kids, so that makes sense.
I could be biased (most likely am) but I feel this is one of the only franchises to ever do the “power of friendship” trope right. It just feels perfectly natural, that might be bcuz of the very nature of game (main character is literally an adorable pink ball), or idk what but it just works.
Kirby lore is like H.P. Lovecraft but more whimsical.
and less racist!
@@tatltails3923 well we do have haltman and Susie that calls us primitives.
That's the closest we get to a slur in the Kirby series
H.P. Lovecraft, but Optimistic
Nah Kirby lore Is HP Lovecraft For ADULTS
@@tatltails3923 knee gear
the way elfilis transforms into his soul form is way creepier than we realize. kirby literally sucks the soul out of his body, and then the soul proceeds to break down the body into bloody flesh orbs, just so it can squeeze every ounce of energy left in them to try and annihlate kirby. the soul is tearing apart the broken body just to use it as a makeshift weapon against kirby as a last ditch attempt. that's fucking raw.
Oh jeez.
Also are we just going to not mention that “Eternal Echo of the Thrilling tour-our-our” plays during the first half of the fight? That track already creeped the hell out of me and they just had to reuse it didn’t they?
the whole lore is nuts
@@Wadosan "and here we are."
@@Wadosan where was it originally from
One detail I like is how in the amusement park, its theme is about space travel. The mascots are two cute dogs who are riding in a space rocket. And the “horror house” focuses on aliens, which makes sense because the planet survived an actual alien invasion.
Wow I never noticed that because the figure description of the Wondaria dogs stuck with me a lot so the thought that the author could’ve possibly been inspired by the events of what was happening back then is really touch and tie in!
maybe there was an awoofy that was basically like a Bandana Dee equivalent who helped stop Fecto Elfilis?
Wondaria Remains for me is probably the saddest area/level in the game. I mean, it's an abandoned amusement park, muddy and rusty and faded... but it's still running. Rides are still going, parade robots are still parading, a friking Ferris Wheel is still up. The House of Horrors is still running. And yet.............
also WHY THE LIVID FRIK IS THERE A ROYAL ROAD LEITMOTIF I'M LOSING MY MIND.
@@goddessdeedeebubblesofimag7789 I was gonna say the same thing the other locations feel ngl kind of bare because I’m so focused on the gameplay though that and the power plant at the end of the game feel kind of sad to go through.
@@goddessdeedeebubblesofimag7789 I mean tbh most of the Beast Pack members seem to be pretty intelligent; I kinda just assumed they took over operating everything and made it an amusement park for themselves.
Forgotten Land's story is great, it consists of Fecto Elfilis trying to declare that "It's Fectin' time" only for the Ancients to overpower them and decide that "It's Human time"
This was a pretty fun video! I love listening to Kirby lore discussions, and this was no exception
6:39 also shoutouts to SimpleFlips
@@ChristopherMoom DON'T DO THAT!!!
(ruclips.net/p/PLOmnE72_U4kccl_Zkib6w5I9JHd4bq-N8)
At the end Morb Knight comes and absorbs Fecto Soul just to say that It's Morbin Time
But they not the ancients
Better than the smash hit Morbius for the DS.
So let me get this straight. Morpho Knight happened because Galacta Knight’s wish for peace was finally granted?
So from my understanding, Morpho Knight is kind of like an Angel of death of Kirby. During times when powerful enemies have both lived way too long and are close to their ultimate demise is when they shows up. Of course, we haven’t seen this in later games but they are a recent addition, and also most of the powerful enemies have been variants of dark matter, which I could be wrong but idk if Morpho would be able to absorb
Literally "I just wanna die! WE all wanna die!"
@@gabeh9182 Considering Morpho Knight's complete inability to absorb Kirby (it lands on Kirby in every game), it probably can't absorb most void beings, an therefore, can't absorb darkmatter.
@@insanitycrafter8553Does that mean that Kirby's overdue for a soul reaping but the pink puff just refuses to die?
@@Darth_Insidious there could be a different set of rules for the positive incarnations of void. Kirby, without fully realizing it probably, just so happens to follow these rules or, if it’s not a “follow the rules” type of thing and indeed is only a matter of time thing, then Kirby might just not have filled up most of that prerequisite.
I'm so glad that Kirby is now a "Game where you fight Chaos" game
Chaos, Chaos Incarnate, the embodiment of negative energy... yeah Kirby is a Godkiller now
Does Smash Bros Ultimate count? Dharkon's pretty close to being Chaos himself.
@@weirdguy1495 Tbh even if Dharkon did count, it'd prob only be in the top 5 god-like beings Kirby has killed, if that
@@NovaMaster375 always has been…
We're here to kill chaos
Galacta Knight is like, "Stop calling me! I know you want a fight for the hundredth time, but I don't want to!"
HAL:Hello sweetie is 3AM, time for your weekly summoning!
Galacta Knight:Yes hal...
No wonder he called Morpho Knight to take his place.
MK: "Still salty ?"
Alright, theory on soul bosses. At this point, I'm assuming that when someone in the kirby universe is purely consumed by desperation, they start to break down into a sort of "origin" state, kind of being a weaker version of void for a bit. Because void is basically the origin of everything, this would explain Void's use of "soul" attacks, (actually, it's the other way around). Of course, some have shown to be able to maintain their form better than others (Marx, Sectonia, etc.) but most of the soul bosses assume the form of one or many orbs at some point, with two exceptions. President Haltmann is easy enough to explain, the heart shape is simply the container for whatever soul orb would've been there, showing some soul characteristics but ultimately still being just a computerized capsule for it. As for Magalor Soul, it isn't really a soul boss in the same way, being a recreation of Magalor being held captive by the master crown, and not a blob of rage hell bent on revenge. It's not a concrete theory yet, but I assume something like this is what connects the dots between all menacing orbs in the kirby universe.
Someone actually made a video based on that idea. I will give your the link.
ruclips.net/video/D_UUe95L8NM/видео.html
Here is the video.
@@justiceiria869 That connecting the pause screen description "hatred, obsession, jealousy, greed" DIRECTLY to each soul boss was VERY smart. That's a direct connection from soul bosses to void. This theory's looking plausible. Looking forward to seeing what the next Kirby game has to offer.
I love that theory! Do you think it has any connection to the different “matters” hinted at in the Japanese text of Star Allies (“matters of Dark, Heart, Dream, and Soul”?)
@@FedoraKirb I think that the greatest possible connection to those is those matters possibly being the makeup of "Chaos", hence leading to Chaos Elfilis. Soul and Dream are easy, Forgo Soul exists within a dream dimension, hence "Fluttering Dream Eater" Morpho Knight. As for the other two, dark may just be referring to negative emotions (the basis of DARK matter), which Forgo has plenty of. But heart? I don't know, either Morpho Knight has something to do with it OR since Morpho may still have Galacta Knight within them, and Galacta Knight wields heart spears. Either that or it's a small remnant of Elfilin, the "heart" of Forgo. But regardless, all of these elements form "Chaos", the sole force allowing Elfilis to create a new body. Chaos will definitely be important going foreword.
I've heard a theory that the reason the Morpho Knight fight happens is because he tries to absorb Elfilis' soul, but can't because Elfilin still exists as separate entity, making their soul incomplete. (as opposed to morpho absorbing the soul as usual and then skedaddling)
That makes perfect sense to me.
You forgot an important piece of lore. I want to know more about the adventures of the Wondaria dog mascots across space. According to the trophies, it was a series of children's books written by an author, who used his dogs as inspiration for the main characters, that became successful enough to build a whole theme park around them. What happens in those books? How many clues can we find around the park to reconstruct one episode of their travels? I really want to know more about those dogs. They're adorable
Maybe the dogs are the children of the HAL logo dog
@@emblemblade9245 YES!!!
Yet there are three eggs?
@@emblemblade9245 I love this! It would be such a HAL thing to do, too.
@@sherbertshortkake6649 there third one transformed itself into void, leading to the events of the game
@@sherbertshortkake6649 Fancy seeing you here, Sherbert Shortkake! And with a new pfp, too.
One Important Detail/Crackpot Fridge Realization:
Many of the new characters in Forgotten Land are more than likely _parallel universe counterparts_ to ones in Kirby's universe.
Kirby > Elfilin
Void > Elfilis
Dedede > Leon (Leongar)
Meta Knight > Caroline (Clawroline)
Caroline and Meta Knight are actually the third most obvious counterparts behind Kirby/Elfilin & Void/Elfilis, to the point that's it's kinda mind blowing.
Starts her fight wearing a dark coat with a prominent upturned collar that hides her identity, immediately tosses it to the side upon approaching her with one hand (paw?).
Acts as a protector towards Elfilin, similar to Meta Knight looking out for Kirby.
Has a romantic relationship with Leon, paralleling Meta Knight and Dedede's friendship. This is further strengthened by Dedede and Leon's similarities, namely that Leon ends up getting possessed by the same evil entity who acts as parallel to Void TWICE in the same game, but he also shares the trait of acting tough on the outside while actually being a big softie towards his minions, said minions mainly being Awoofies, who are literally just doggified Waddle Dees.
And then the most funny part, *_HER CLAWS GIVE YOU THE SWORD ABILITY WHEN INHALED._* This is where I think the devs were really trying to push the connection on purpose, since if she really wasn't supposed to be a counterpart to Meta Knight, then her claws would absolutely give you Cutter instead, since, y'know, they're sharp curved blades that get launched as projectiles? That they can also generate an unlimited supply of.
Your observations here make so much freaking sense to me that I find myself agreeing with you more than anything I've ever agreed with in my life. I have to believe that the developers at least agreed on _theming_ the new characters as counterparts, much like theming the game around a forgotten, human-like civilization. I got to say that if this was the case, it was a really good choice.
Oh my god parallel Meta Knight is a sexy furry I need to rethink my life
@@emblemblade9245 It sounds so much more awkward phrased like that.
@@juststardust9816 That why we love this comment
Plus, in triple deluxe, there are big, fluffy and dark brown skinned waddle dees. It made me think of the «waddle dogs» connection. Fluffy dees could be primal awoofies. Doesn’t it connect with your theory?
On speculation about the former inhabitants of the planet: the title of the music track that plays during the credits (not the actual credits, but specifically the credits you can view in the movie theater, and the very very last song on the OST) is “From Those Who Departed For Space”. Since this is literally the signing of their work of all of the HUMANS who worked on the game, and that the only people in Forgotten Land who “departed for space” are the land’s inhabitants, that’s probably confirmation that the people living here were at least human adjacent.
One thing that I never really understood was how humanity managed to contain Elfilis in the first place. Like, they’re ridiculously powerful, and it doesn’t seem like humanity was super advanced before they got to experiment on Elfilis. Just seemed like something that was hand-waved for the plot. But thanks to this video, I finally understand now. No matter who you are or how powerful you might be, NO ONE can escape Gay Baby Jail.
Maybe they just nuked him a lot
Maybe galacta knight also came from the forgotten land and he defeated Fectol elfilis?
THeory: It was Adeleine. Maybe not directly, but I think ther'es this kind of theme going on because you have soul, but then you have.... "art" and art seems to have some insane power too. My understand (guess) is humanity realized they could beat fecto through the power of pure creativity. ACTUALLY pure creativity. I pull that up because Adeleine has some of the most insane abilities out of anyone in kirby. She can literally paint food, and earnestly she can paint almost anything she wants. Being able to create food, just full stop manifest it, would be an INCREDIBLE power during long distances ( you know like say space travel?). You wouldn't run out of food as long as you had paint. I feel like in the past the ancients figured out how to harness creativity, and Elfilis seeming to function solely alone whose powers are psychic, might have not be a match for that kind of ability because while intelligent, itdoesn't seem to "make" much at all.. I believe it's something we've noticed bbefore too. FAiries weren't all that advanced either, but their crystal didn't just hold back the most powerful attack of zero, but even successfully expelled and killed him.
3 little headcannons I have now
I like to think that the forgotten land is the another dimension version of Shiver Star, so after leaving the forgotten land, and realizing they were in a parallel universe, they went and found "Earth" and settled on Shiver Star
since the tech ancients aren't even native to Kirby's universe, the fact that they banished the magic ancients who ARE native is kinda messed up, makes sense why Hyness was so angry, but hey, it's perfectly on brand for humans to banish the natives
If the tech ancients WERE human (I like to think they were), then other human or human-like characters probably descended from them, so while Adeleine, The Fairies of Ripple Star, and The Mage Sisters may not all be the same species, they all probably descended from ancients
In Star Allies, one of Void's descriptions says Void exists in every dimension, one of them helped the ancients create their warp technology. This confirms Elfilis to definitely be Void, with or without Morpho Knight's influence
holy cow- i forgot about that piece of lore- dang, that's huge
I had heard about Void being omnidimensional, but where does Star Allies say anything about warp technology?
@@jasonwalton9553 In the original Japanese descriptions
I love how Kirby lore is extrapolating that an old race looked like humans based on that random cardboard cutout at a theme park level
That's why I love Kirby. You can have any idea about a plot and, even though it's absurdly weird, it will eventually fit on the rest of the lore. They can be like: "Isn't this too much?" And then look back on other games an think: "Nah, he fought worse."
One thing I wanna mention, I don’t think Galacta Knight was annihilated; given the butterfly does the same thing to Fecto, but we still fight them afterwards
Also I think Morpho Knight is just Morpho Knight. It didn’t fuse with Galacta Knight or anything.
Same
Also in the japanese mopho gacha description it states there are multiple butterflies of judgment, so this one could be different from the one in the “what if scenario” in guest star allies
Also morpho knight seem to just be the butterfly true form, not a fusion of galacta and the butterfly, aside from the japanese pause screen,guest star allies takes place in a not canon what if scenario
AND Kirby super clash takes place in another universe and there is still a galacta here, then there is a huge chance a galacta knight still exists in the main canon timeline, but doesn’t in the not canon one morpho first debuted in
Basically, i think galacta and the butterfly are separate entities and the canon timeline galacta is still alive and sealed away
@@ArceTheTroll Bingo! Morpho Knight is the butterfly's true form no matter who it eats; its SA fight is just a "What If" thing like all the bonus modes. Canonically, Galacta Knight is still sealed away.
I think what happened is that, since the Butterfly was weakened, it allowed what remained of Fecto Forgo to “reabsorb” its power from the inside.
@@ArceTheTroll We literally see multiple butterflies of judgement. The entrance to the Morpho Sword trial is located at a bonfire surrounded by orange butterflies.
I think that galacta Knight is gone I dont think he's coming back to another Kirby game it's just going to be Morpho knight from now on. I'm not saying that Galacta knight is gone GONE just not coming back I believe he is fused with the butterfly but who really knows? We haven't gotten an actual answer on what the whole butterfly's deal is so its anyone's guess at this point just gotta wait for the next game.
I appreciate that you did clarify when you were going to go into theory territory. Not something a lot of people do, surprisingly.
That's how awesome he is
“More lore” Is such a simple comment but without the context of the original video it’s very cryptic
Dedede getting possessed by an ungodly force of evil is as much of a plot staple in Kirby games as Peach getting kidnapped in Mario games.
As a Xenoblade fan, I found it kind of funny when people, after playing forgotten land, posted on the sub Reddit that it felt like a xeno game with the ending, with anyone who has played any other Kirby game Telling them that that’s just how it always is, that is the true Kirby
In most game series, fighting something like Void Termina or Chaos Elfilis would be the final enemy of the last game of the saga. For Kirby, it's a Tuesday.
1:28 That actually explains SO MUCH about Void wow. Soul, as in soul boss forms, heart as in Kirby's power of friendship (and possibly wish granting and multiversal travel?) and Dark as in Dark Matter, Nightmare, the Shadow Realm (officially known as Another Dimension) and the inhabitants of the Mirror World. Not really sure how "dream" factors into it though.
The final area in Forgotten Land is "Forgo Dreams" and was created by Fecto Forgo, Leongar talked about how the original inhabitants fled to a "land of dreams" using Fecto Forgo's power, maybe Fecto Elfilis/Forgo is Dream Matter?
Dreams: dreamland, the fountain of dreams
I think I know where Dream fits in. Dark Matter has always shown a weakness for certain weapons like the Rainbow Sword, Firend Hearts, maybe the Triple Star and most importantly the Love-Love Stick, a weapon forged from the Heart Stars that Kirby collected by helping people. But the crucial detail is that Kirby cannot fight Dark Matter at all without it, and there has never been a canon fight with a Dark Matter form where Kirby uses a regular Copy Ability. Obvioisly these weapons have to be made of Heart, but if Kirby was made of heart already then the weapons would be unnessecary so Kirby has to be made from Dream instead.
@@charziz6693 Disagree.
Consider that in dreams, the impossible is possible. Fly through space, defeat the invincible, visit other worlds. And when all of that happens in the Kirbyverse, what shape does it take?
A star. Fly on a star, use star-shaped portals to break reality... and use the Star Rod to defeat darkness. Plus, look at the general theming of DREAMland. The land itself has a star motif, with star blocks and star-shaped planets. The Star Rod is in the Fountain of Dreams.
Star is dreams. That would make Kirby heart, or possibly heart+soul. The other weapons would be at least partially dream, given the star motif; possibly dream+heart.
There might even be an elemental weakness type of thing going on here. Heart (Kirby) beats soul (bosses). Soul crushes dreams. Dreams vanquish the darkness. And the darkness, itself, smothers the heart.
@@shaventalz3092 That last part doesn't make sense because Nightmare, Dark Matter and Dark Mind are darkness, that's their whole thing.
Also the first letter of each world's name spells out NEW WORL
The D presumably being Dreamland
D is forgo *D*reams
D is Discovera LD, Lab Discovera
About Chaos, I think Chaos Elfilis does not take that prefix from Morpho’s energy but from the "convergence of elements" it’s made of according to the figure’s description. Chaos was described as made of many substances after all.
That's a very fair point.
that's what i thought at first, but at the same time, the only real difference between Fecto Elfilis and Chaos Elfilis is that Chaos Elfilis no longer needs Elfilin to become a stable being, and instead uses Morpho Knight's energy to keep itself whole.
i think the "convergence of elements" part of Chaos Elfilis would only come from Morpho Knight.
@@Ralesigh The description details that the convergence of elements comes from the many souls of the wildlife and the essence of the ethereal butterfly (and implicitly Forgo Soul since of course it’s in there)
@@enzoul777 Forgo Soul is literally just Forgo
and Fecto Elfilis also consisted of the animals it absorbed. Literally the only difference between the two is Morpho Knight
@@Ralesigh either way, the wording “convergence of elements” implies that no individual part could cause the transformation on their own, but that all parts need to be there.
Dark Souls Lore: Yeah that's sad, such a hubris.
Warhammer 40k Lore: And then a church of the size of Ohio slammed the last hopes he had? Damn.
Kirby Lore: Why can't I stop sobbing.
It's worth to point out that Chaos Elfilis's soul glitches in the same way as Nightmare's Power Orb form when hit.
This might just be a coincidence, but considering that Nightmare and Fecto Elfilis are both entities with powers related to dreams, and that Nightmare it's implied to not have a corporal form in the conventional scene, similar to let's say… a soul? Then this similarity could've been intentional and may explain a couple of things about the existence of Nightmare.
Wow I didn’t think about time working differently between Popstar and the Forgotten Land. Seeing that now makes the final cutscene make much more sense, as Elfilin appeared literally seconds after Kirby realized he was gone.
Amazing video, I love the lore breakdown as a continuation of the last video!
I love the fact that Kirby, as a hero, is a hero out of obligation. He just gets sucked up into another world and is like: “well, if I want to get back to eating and sleeping, I gotta deal with this.”
Just an interesting theory of mine to try and tie together some plot threads that haven't gotten full explanations, but I theorize that the reason the Ancients were so enraptured by Pop Star and Dreamland might be because Pop Star is the shining form of Void they discovered that caused them to transcribe Voids mysteries. Which would explain why Kirby appeared on Pop Star on the spring breeze (since he would be the Zero to Pop Star's Dark Star), and the word "Mapop" being in one of Hyness's descriptions (as in Pop Star). It's worth noting that the Japanese description about the shining form says that the form was star-like. Which is interesting since planets in Kirby media (like the novels) are refered to as stars. Just food for thought lol.
It's an interesting hypothesis, though I always figured the "shining form" being referenced is something akin to that Astral Birth / Sparkling Star form of Void, itself, that you're fighting.
I think Doomsday is an event that Morpho Knight is actively planning for. He’s taking the strongest of what can find, maybe to Build a Loadout of Sorts? Maybe it keeps leaving Kirby alive because Morpho might need him in the future
I don't think Morpho COULD destroy Kirby even if he wanted to. Anything that tries to absorb Kirby is, inevitably, overwhelmed by him.
An orange butterfly has landed on Kirby multiple times during the beginning and ending cutscenes. If we assume that's Morpho, then it seems that Morpho literally can't absolve Kirby, at least not yet.
I like the idea that Kirby chooses to die when he wants it simply because he is that powerful and has friends.
It is literally implied in the Morpho Knight Sword ability figure that Morpho can't absorb Kirby.
13:53
I made a theory of how that can be that case. I assume that Galacta Knight became a Living Paradox because how his actions of traveling space and time affected himself and his timeline. Which is why I believed is why he was sealed in the first place. Not because no one could beat him, but we would always come back.
For those who don’t know, A Living Paradox is a being without a past or a future. They are no longer apart of the timeline. Which makes them immune from consequences. No matter how many times they die, they would simply comeback because there is always another version of them from a different timeline. Goku Black and Reverse Flash are an example to this.
One thing I've noticed with Fecto Elfilis's design are the markings at the ends of it's wing/ears. The pattern shares similarities to the tail feathers of Sphere Doomers. Both beings are capable of interdimensional travel (using the same portal shape, too!). Could they both be from the same dimension?
I really enjoyed this, and I just wanted to add some of my own theories into the pot for myself!
Firstly: The "land of dreams" line is probably a massive red herring that's fooled practically everybody from my perspective. After you defeat Leongar, it's revealed Forgo is using him as a mouthpiece to speak, and in Leon & Carol's figurine description, it mentions that the common-like talking is not their normal language, as they speak in meows, further implying that his speech before the battle was completely fabricated by Forgo. And if Forgo is referring to a "land of dreams," then from its perspective, the "dreams" are its own psionic realms. It lines back up to them going to Halcandra and becoming the Ancients, but I think the context was a bit mixed up for a lot of people, as they went directly to Halcandra instead of going to Kirby's universe, as they are also in different dimensions as well according to Magolor in RtDL.
But secondly... Forgo is constantly referred to as a species. Implying there are potentially *more* of it out there. And if there are more... who's to say they didn't work together to create an entire psionic universe with the Ancients? If you notice, Halcandra's space is still very much designed like Another Dimension's, which is pretty much the same as Forgo's dream portals now. What if different Another Dimensions are caused by different Fecto beings? And what if the Halcandrans decided to transport their ENTIRE PLANET into this dream dimension???
Thirdly, it's obvious that the Ancients were a multi-racial society, as the Halcandran species (Magolor & Hyness) aren't the only ones. I also personally headcanon that the Three Mage Sisters are the species of being that came from the Forgotten Land, or at least evolved from them, being close enough to human to make the human-like world make sense, but far enough from human to be considered... well, inhuman.
Fourthly, because the implications keep coming, there is one artifact of the Ancients that has been considered to be truly sentient: the Lor Starcutter. If it is sapient, and can open up the same portals as often as it wants... I headcanon that the Lor is actually powered by the soul of a Fecto being.
Fifthly, if Halcandra resides in a dream realm, then it ALSO gives us a potential new culprit for Halcandra's destruction! There's a forgotten entity of dreams out there: NIGHTMARE. What if Nightmare was a corruption of one of the Fecto's minds, a literal nightmare that decided to attack the Ancients that were residing in the psychospace with it, and eventually seeked to use their technology to escape the dreams through a certain Fountain?
There are even more things I could go into with this theory track, like how Hyness managed to summon his own portals without Fecto assistance in Heroes in Another Dimension, but I'll keep those to replies if people wanna hear more! =D
It's the beginning of a new arc in the Kirby story, and I'm so excited to see where it takes us!
can we hear more?
tell us please :0
One small correction is that it is heavily implied that Magalor is not an ancient. The way he speaks about them and the implied idea that he stole the Lor Starcutter support this.
@@pokedash1221 Tbf I also made this comment before the release of Return to Dream Land Deluxe which nailed down that detail a lot harder, but I like to think he's at least a related species
@@Raddaman8000 He probably has some sort of connection for him to even be able to pilot the Lor Starcutter.
I thought the portal to Popstar opened up so they could use the Waddledees as cheap labor. Figured that was why they were on hamster wheels in the lab.
Plus, we don't know how long Kirby was out for, or if the light we saw brighten at Kirby really was the portal or not.
3:16 Besides everything regarding Galacta Knight, Super Kirby Clash also provides details regarding Nightmare, with him shown to process powers in opening portals into Another Dimension. Having the natural ability to open Another Dimension portals places him with similar skills to Fecto Elfilis. Besides the Sphere Doomers, only Ancient technology (which originated from Fecto Elfilis)/magic or copies of it have been seen to be able to open these portals, so being connected to them implies some significance. Plus, since this is Parallel Nightmare, and Star Allies places a lot of connection to parallel bosses and Void/Another Dimension, this would imply a further association between Nightmare and said elements.
Since Nightmare corrupts the Dream Fountain (a creation of the ancients) and takes the form of a humanoid wizard (a user of magic), he might originate from the magic users of the Ancients or was a member before transforming into what we see in Adventure. The Dream Fountain can affect the dreams of everyone in Dreamland, similar to Fecto Elfilis' physic powers affecting the subconscious of everyone in the Forgotten Land, so Nightmare's corrupting influence could also be an extension of the Ancients gaining powers from research on Elfilis.
Also, a strange connection between Nightmare and Chaos Elfilis is that both glitch out when they get hit in their sphere forms, implying some kind of similarity between them (else, I can't explain why Elfilis would have that effect). Perhaps he was able to achieve this form from the research done on Fecto Elfilis, or maybe the sphere form is Nightmare's natural state, and the wizard form is a copy based on the image of the Ancients? It's complete speculation, but it gives some ground to theorize about him instead of being a random force from nowhere.
I dunno though, didn't the Japanese dream friend lore for Susie included a line of "punishing the savages" ? Depending on what she considers savages it might not always mean "evil doers" it can just be vulgar natives.
That might be where the initial translation got the idea that she kept mechanizing planets. They might have seen mechanizing as colonizing.
Yeah, I see it as Susie taking a less drastic but still forceful approach and just colonizing the natives instead of brainwashing them, doing so under the vain but selfish promise of technological advancement
@@emblemblade9245 Ah yes, the good ol' "We didn't destroy their ways of living and belief and force them to adapt to ours. We gave them progress." Kind of thing. Minus making them second class citizen. Implications alone doesn't make her seem less dodgy. But since it's not 100% proven, I guess we can believe she used her company's power to do good. It's much more palatable. Though personally I like the idea of Susie being still a bit bad and aggressively market her company's advantages, just without the unwilling forceful mechanization.
@ 3:10 “Despite not being cannon.”
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
About that…
Local Fetus becomes a God and gets defeated by a Truck.
Omg so Susie was actually good in the end? That's a relief LOL. Although I had come to accept the whole "she continued her dad's legacy" thing with the mental thought of "she didnt know his original plan was to bring her back so she wanted to honor him by following his footsteps" thing. It sucked but it made it feel slightly more understanding regardless of how bad that still was. But definitely even better knowing that it was just a translation error. A weird completely screwed over error, but an error nonetheless.
That also explains Parallel Susie better because Parallel characters tend to be corrupted and have far more negative and “evil” emotions. If Susie turned to good after the events of Planet Robobot, then that would make her ripe for parallelization.
Nightmare does not count; that is more like how the mirror world had its version of Whispy Woods.
Admittedly, the Japanese version of the description DOES say she'll "exterminate the savages" too, which can be read as pretty sus
I think Morpho Knight just looks like that, rather than borrowing an appearance from Galacta Knight. I'm most certain his attack similarities with Galacta Knight is just because he's kind of another Meta Knight-like boss.
That's exactly what it is
Yes But Actually No
I mean Galacta Knight is canon to exist as he IS a soul in smash bros meaning that in that point in the timeline where smash happened he DID exist
morpho's attacks seem to differ depending on the soul he's eaten so yeah the similarities are going to be there
besides, circle is the most primal shape of matter
@@milkman4407 1 Galacta knight is canon but he hasn't made any appearances yet
2 Smash isn't canon to any timeline lmao
Theory: Shiver Star is the Forgotten Land's equivalent in Kirby's universe. When the outsider 'Tech' Ancients defeated the local 'Magic' Ancients to seal them away, part of the conflict involved mechanising their home planet.
Funny thing is, we should've known Morpho Knight was going to show up in Forgo Isles IF you were in Japan. The Japanese bio for Morpho Knight EX mentions they'd travel to a dream world and the land of the dead.
The chaos elfilis fight may not have been as difficult as the star allies fight, but I love how the Canon lore built it up to what it became in the true arena fight.
In my opinion Morpho Knight was always a knight and wasn’t dependent on Galacta Knight. Instead they take vague abilities of whatever gets absorbed by them. Friend taking and psychic disorientation etc
If that's the case then wouldn't that mean Morpho Knight really is the same species as kirby?
I have a personal head Canon for on Morpho's story, or rather motivation.
As of Forgotten Land, it has atomized Galacta and Elphilis. Both beings of immense power, who use polearms with heart shaped decorations and have some form of angel like wings...
I believe both are from the group of warriors who imprisoned Void Termina. Galacta is all but confirmed and these clues would confirm Elphilis.
Now, the why. Maybe it's just the nature of Morpho to act like a reaper or an agent of Karma. Both Elphilis and Galacta lived long and violent lives. Morpho could be enforcing nature on them, or Morpho could be collecting them...
Maybe it if building its strong to the point it os able to challenge Kirby or maybe it will free the four knights to have a climatic battle against the Astral Birth once ot has collected them all!
Kirby has some of the deepest lore and I love it
The General Director behind the Kirby franchise Shinya Kumazaki did say they do plan on bringing back Galacta Knight in his dark form back in a later game.
have anyone noticed how.... the time in your own dreams pass much slower than real life? You sleep for hours but the moments that you have in your dreams seems to last only a few minutes.
And HAL literally is doing this in this game.
I'm surprised no one's mentioned how similar the portals in Forgotten Land are to the ones from Return To Dreamland/Adventure Wii
I was thinking the same thing during my playthrough!
the music in the final level of forgo dreams is also a remix of the song that plays in the another dimension segments from rtdl which i think is interesting because it's one of the only remixes in forgotten land 👀 since elfilis's power was used by the people of the forgotten land and the lor starcutter and its energy spheres open the same star-shaped portals elfilis and elfilin can, maybe the halcandrans are descendants of the people of the forgotten land
I’ve noticed that.
4:09
Shadow Kirby: It's just a prank bro!
I dont think theres "magic ancients" and "scientific ancients" rather, hyness' rant makes it seem more like a "humans friended aliens for different powers and later ditched them" (this can be supported by the wonderia cutout)
Also, the reason elfilis turned into chaos wasnt just because of morpho, many beasts also got absorbed and thats how it became "chaos" because its many varyingly different souls turned into one power
So, theres also the implication that morpho is dead, along with a bunch of other beasts, because chaos elfilis' body died with them (you can even see them cry out just before he explodes into light)
BUT
An important part you forgot to mention, in the japanese gacha text for morpho and chaos elfilis, it states there are multiple butterfly judges
To add to the multiple butterfly judges part, the area with the morpho sword treasure portal has a bunch of the butterflies fluttering around a fire.
Huh, interesting
So I guess that means Galacta Knight, by actual Kirby lore, is not canon (outside of him being a character existing long ago because Heart Spears) because that could have been another Morpho Knight and not the same one that absorbed Elfilis?
@@iantaakalla8180 the judges could all look different but thats definitely a high possibility! Since in planet robobots final cutscene, you see a total of 3(or more?) morpho butterflies when dedede wakes up from the rubble
Awesome comment. Would rate again.
So what I'm getting here is that Kirby needs to kill Chaos.
*forgive*
It really says something when in my first playthrough of forgotten land, I practically screamed "MORPHO KNIGHT IS CANNON!" When he appeared in forgo dreams
Has some holes but one of my headcannons is that the New World, specifically Wondaria is Marx’s place of origin. Though the mascots of the park are the two dog characters, they might not be the only mascots. Much like how Mickey and Minnie aren’t the only Disney mascots. Marx very well could’ve been a sort of character for either the horror house or the completely abandoned Big Top Circus (Though the player fighters Claworline there. Her origin place is stated to be the Originull Wasteland along with the rest of the Beast Pack). It would make sense given how he knew about Nova’s existence. And the original civilization is strongly implied to be the ancients Magolor goes on about in return to dreamland. And the ancients created the Clockwork stars like Nova and Star Dream. Additionally. If Marx’s second form is *Really* his True form, it would explain why he shares so many attacks with Star Dream Soul Os’s Final Phase. It would ALSO explain how Marx somewhat knew about the threat of the Jamba-Cult in Star allies. Hyness states that he was once good friends with people of Science in the Japanese version of the game before the banished him for unknown reasons. It is, again, heavily implied that these people were the ancients, and the civilization of the Forgotten Land.
This is all major headcannon stuff but i get the feeling that he and a lot of characters (Such as Gooey, Adeline, or Daroach) were not originally from Popstar/Dream Land and have something to do with the Forgotten Land
Galata knight being one of the magic ancients makes so much sense from him being imprisoned to hyness summoning him from a portal
Since quite a few people are joking about "Morbin time" in this comment section I'd like to share my silly assumption that Marx would absolutely be a Morbhead.
guess that means it's Marxin' time-
Man galacta knight and morpho knight really make me want to know the lore behind meta knight, not only he have a appearance extreme similar to galacta knight and morpho knight he also have a appearance basically identical to kirby except for the color scheme when he lose his mask, we need lore for that.
Something I see a lot of people gloss over is the lor starcutter being able to also travel through time, this implies that the ancients either already knew how to time travel or fecto elfillis could travel through time which could explain the issues with time in the game (Kirby struggling for a couple seconds in the vortex and arriving seemingly days after the waddle dees arrived and effilin coming back at the end of the game seconds after he “died” despite claiming to have been nurtured back to health)
In the HAL room in the lava world, I noticed that the capsule there looked creepily like Star Dream… thoughts?
I'm so glad I wasn't the only one who thought up the fact that time was passing much faster on Dreamland vs Forgotten Land.
Also, one of the gacha items talked about the fact that the main corporation in forgotten land split into different factions. Now this could just mean that the split between science and magic, but this could also be rhat the science also split into smaller factions again. And this got me to wonder, what if the Haltman company was one of the branches of the science ancients and the civilization that lived on Halcandria was another and the one that lived on Shiver star were the last ones.
Lastly, I wonder if it was forgotten Land where Suzie ended up during Robobot when she was sent to another dimension but only to return looking different shortly after but for her it might've been a few decades.
I’ve shown everyone I know the ending segment of this game, I genuinely think this is the one of the most batshit crazy and amazing endings to a game I’ve played, even over Robobot honestly. This game made my year and I forgot how much I loved best bud
My guess is that several technological ancients evolved differently depending on which planet they settled in. Haltmann and Susie are humanoids and their company appears to be a former competitor of the Lightron Works Company (one of the three major companies in the new world) but they also don't entirely resemble humans. As for Shiver Star, the factory looks normal (at least by Kirby standards), but the furniture in the abandoned shopping mall looks absolutely massive when compared to Kirby and other characters. Meanwhile, Adeleine looks like a perfectly normal human yet can turn drawings to life and in Dream Land 3 doesn't require a canvas to do so.
Something to note for morpho knight being Canon in forgotten land is that it doesn't technically mean galacta knight is dead. We don't know if he is dead, only that morpho is a thing now
Monger does say that in the video
Yeah it could possibly mean that Morpho Knight absorbed Galacta Knight in an alternate reality (Guest Star) where he again and again was unsealed and resealed and then transitioned to the main canon universe where it absorbed Soul Forgo. The Galacta Knight of this universe is probably still sealed away and never once come back. Hopefully that’s the case since Galacta Knight is one of my favorite Kirby characters!
Shoutouts to this game for casually adding “And here we are!” To one of the random irrational fears of kirby fans alongside butterflies and cute, unassuming side characters
I did not expect to see Morpho Knight again so soon, so seeing that damn butterfly appear was a surprise to be sure. Also, can we mention the final boss theme goes hard, and the official name "Two Planets Approach the Roche Limit" is raw af
I love that kirby is growing into a lore game just as much as it is a game of fun copy abilities.
For a while it seems like they had a vague idea until in return to dreamland tbey decided they wanted to go harder in that route birthing the lore in star allies and forgotten land
What if the anger of each final boss taps into the chaos for a little bit and when they die a second time is goes back into the pool of chaos
It would make sense for a force called "chaos" to both be fuel for power and grow with defeat
3:07 And then... Kirby's Return to Dreamland DX happened.
A side note is that this game unknowingly revealed Galacta Knight’s true nature. First let’s cover Morpho Knight’s Forgo attack, summoning it’s soul. That form must be a reflection of it’s soul, so in Star Allies the soul attack is Galacta Knight at its truest. Unmasked and revealed.
I had pondered for so long what those spooky wisp clouds were, if they were relevant or just some generic evil faces, but what you mentioned just now offers a really interesting possibility
@@peridrawland5955 IIRC the Japanese version of the game says the spooky wisp faces are the spirits of the dead, or something along those lines
I’d like to suggest the reason galacta knight didnt escape when they were absorbed by morpho was because they chose to stay. Whereas elfilis refused to die, galacta knight accepted their fate
Galacta Knight literally has a crisis everytime he gets freed, like lmao the last two times he got freed he immediately murdered everything he could murder
We don't need another video like this so soon just for a single game, but man I really want to know the implications of Team Kirby Clash being canonized now
11:06 Well, he was hardly the only one. Familiar faces such as common enemies and even more so a certain trio of mid-bosses fell to their influence too.
10:56 IT'S THAT DAMNED BUTTERFLY
I just love how the background for the boss fight is just the design for the casing around void termina before Kirby opens it
I'm just saying that if we get a Morpho Knight plush before Galacta Knight becomes officially canon I might cry
Perhaps morpho knight (or the butterfly itself) is kirby's guardian? Doesn't make much sense to try to kill kirby but meta knight had a similar mentality.
I just still find it crazy that in star allies hyness hints the two factions of the ancients were science and magic, and then forgotten land shows us a lot of the science the ancients used in their old world. The games could be progressing towards the science side of the ancients since we know a lot of the lore surrounding the magic side and dark matter at this point.
So my theory on morphaknight and more importantly the butterfly; is that it's going around absorbing and growing in power. Each soul it comes across gives it a chance to get revenge and fight back, but at the cost of giving Morpho its power.
And why does it need this power? Well to finally absorb, judge and defeat the most powerful being it has come across. One so great in power that it can't judge or absorb, one that can hold its powers so easily. The only and only Kirby.
After coming to realize that it can't absorb Kirby, Kirby is just too powerful. It needs to gain and collect more power to even stand a chance.
So with this logic and given what the butterfly means (judgement and death). Kirby could literally be facing off against death itself as a final boss.....and you know what? I'm ok with that. It doesn't seem out of place at all.
An amazing vid! However, you forgot to mention the time Fecto spent being a tourist attraction for the majority of it's life, and how it was most likely driven mad by the perpetual tourist intro speech. This is supported by the distorted version of the speech when you fight it in it's dream realm, constantly repeating "AND HERE WE ARE" in a very disturbing manner
Your first video on Kirby lore was what first got me into the franchise, now I’m trying to structure my own theories about what the heck is happening. Also, can HAL please let DeDeDe be strong enough to resist mind control at least once? He deserves that win. Also, awesome video 10/10!
Also, question about names: Where did Elfilin get his name? Sure, the audience knows the name of IDF86 is Fecto Elfilis, but is that the name they (Elfilis) chose, or was that a name given to them. I highly doubt the scientific ancients gave them that name. If it was a name they chose, then why did Elfilin introduce themselves as something else? Was Fecto Elfilis the name chosen by the ambitious part of their soul, and Elfilin wanted something different?
I think that after this game, Dedede will no longer be mind-controlled. I think he will probably just gain a resistance to it by actually becoming a good king (and therefore that part of him is impossible to change under brainwashing).
Of course, this is a theory.
@@iantaakalla8180 A GAME theory! Thanks for watching
Did you know that kracko remembers every battle with kirby. There's pause description for kracko in kirby fighters 2
yes, I read that pause screen description, and it makes sense for him to keep tabs on every fight he had with Kirby. I wish he brought it up in his video because I find that Kracko lore is pretty cool.
11:44 GET OUT OF MY HEAD TOUHOU PROJECT GET OUT OF MY HEAD TOUHOU PROJECT GET OUT OF MY HEAD TOUHOU PROJECT
I knew there were translation errors in the recent games, but I never realized how bad they were! I would personally love to see a video or something with English versus Japanese descriptions!
I would like to see a side-by-side comparison of the two.
it's always best to get the info directly from the original texts, can't really rely on translated version coz things tend to get lost or changed for rating reasons at best and changed on a translators whim at worst
I can’t wait to hear any kind of analysis from you for the Magolor Epilogue 👀
I've had a theory since your last lore vid that Kirby's copy ability is related to Morpho Knight's absorption ability. I think Kirby literally has a butterfly in his stomach; a member of Morpho Knight's species that's working in tandem with Kirby rather than absorbing him. That would also explain why the copy ability doesn't appear in Kirby's dream land, since Kirby might not have swallowed the butterfly yet.
Crack pot theory time: so we know that soul, heart, dream, and void all make chaos. For a while we’ve been thinking Kirby is void with positive energy. I don’t think that’s the whole picture, as all the other void bosses are considered so much weaker then Kirby, and I doubt positive emotions would make that big of a difference. What if Kirby is actually pure chaos. It fits his rather chaotic good mindset, and that would put him far above the void bosses since they only contain a quarter of Kirby’s true nature. There’s also the quote that morpho knight’s sword/abilities are a breeze for Kirby to wield, and morpho knight is a chaos being just like Kirby, so what gives? Perhaps Morpho knight is an avatar of chaos, while kirby is pure chaos. The other theory is that maybe positive emotion at birth does make a huge difference, letting him use the sword easily.
3:10 that aged well lol.
I have two things I have a different view on from what you mentioned
-For the science and magic ancients, I think maybe they were always the same starting out, in this case, when these people arrived at dream land's dimension, they started to discover magic later on
-For Morpho Knight, i'd say the form we see is his normal form, its not so much that he took Galacta's likeness, rather he's just like that, and he needs to absorb a powerful source to gain his knight form
Your old one 3 years ago is one of my favorite videos, glad to see an update
I'm still a little confused about the stretch of time here. The implication time passes faster in popstar is neat, but for the forgo folks to be "Ancients", Wouldnt Forgotten Land need to be taking place a long time ago? (Its not like the Ancients are planethopping yet, since its said they got a bunch of tech just now reworking from KnockOffMewtwo here,)
I mean, if we think relativistically, space is just part of 4-dimensional spacetime. If you can, with a thought, create portals linking one area of space to another, you should probably be able to link them through time as well.
it would also make more sense for the state of the world we see. there's no way things like a shopping mall or a theme park should still be standing/functioning after however long the ancients are supposed to have been gone.
@@Nowolf to make a counterpoint, rhe ancients have been gone for so long that animals have become sentient
13:16 do know they changed morpho knight’s model to make his eyes look more like galacta knight’s and in his ex fight he turns galacta’s power into his own.
Kirby clash has now been made canon by magolors epilogue
When I first played through the story, my mind immediately went to the "this is where Kirby's ancestors (or I suppose more accurately Meta Knight's) came from." The interdimensional travel, mentions of them leaving the place to a land of dreams, it all just fit.