The Church of the East is astounding. You were the first church to truly appreciate the geographic aspect of the word catholic, spreading even into every province and county of China! May Our Lord continue to bless your church amid the terrible persecution you are continually suffering.
Story short: Nestorius wasn’t articulate, Cyril bullied him and misrepresented his views at a council he wasn’t even present at, he was condemned and his supporters fled to the Persian Empire, Church of the East refused to anathematize Nestorius and have traditionally maintained he wasn’t Nestorian, Western theologians further misrepresented the views of the Church of the East via language barriers, and now because Europeans decide it, the legacy of this marvelous church has to be attached to a heresy. All of you commenting hatred in this thread should be ashamed at yourselves for attacking such a persecuted Christians group.
Finally, someone who understands! Thumbs up to you! I admire and is proud of the Church of the East or the Nestorians or whatever people call this great and persecuted Christians - yes, they are Christians! God Bless Them!
You summed up pretty much how I think . I go to this church and I have talked to the people who tell me about the persecution their families faced and I am amazed how much they endured and when I read comments about “ heresy “ and “ heretical “ I’m almost given to anger . The Iraqi Christians never recanted or renounced their faith in Christ and suffer at the hands of Muslims and to hear other “ Christians “ tear them down over ( in my opinion ) over ridiculous and pointless arguments infuriates me. When their critics have endured the violence and persecution and hatred and still holds fast to their faith in Jesus perhaps I’ll listen to them . Until then I think I’ll cast my lot with these Christians , they are faithful . You can continue in your pointless theological hair splitting if you wish , I find it amusing .
Those saying that Nestorius and the Church of the East were heretical are probably just jealous because for a long time the European church were confined to a small, backward place, while the Church of the East spread far among some of the most advanced civilization on earth. That or they dislike that not all of Christianity was as corrupt or cruel as the Medieval church. European Christianity had often been linked with politics and this was proved when the Portuguese tried to bring tbe St. Thomas Christians under the control of the Pope.
We all believe, Jesus, is our savior. One day we will become reunited in one church. Pray for unity among the Assyrian Church of the East, Eastern Orthodox Church, and Oriental Orthodox Church. We were all united at the council of Nicaea, our differences are only due to misinterpretations. ܫܠܡܐ
@@seylanmadhusanka2198 nobody’s going to hell over saying Mary is the mother of Christ vs saying Mary is the mother of God. These arguments are made by people who geek out on theology.
Well nestorius would be more consistent with the scriptures on the union of two persons how I go over it in my video on my problem with Orthodoxy. If anyone cares???
3:26 "If Nestorius was wrong in his life why they destroy his book? Why they never actually keep his book to show to everyone: look what Nestorias actually wrote in his book or look what Nestorius actually said in his book." Well, if that is your evidence for Nestrorius then one would can apply all that you just said and apply that to Arius. Why did they bann him to exil, why did they burn all his scriptures and writing. Why did they make it illegal to just own own of his books. Why if you have one of his book was it orded to be burned/destoryed? Was it because Arius was true? Constantine's edict ordered: "It is now my decision that Arius and such as have opinions similar to this should be called Porphyrians in order that they may have the name of those whose way of life they imitate. In addition to this, if any treatise composed by Arius is found, let it be put into the fire, in order not only that this defective doctrinal works [Arius treatise] may be destroyed, but also that no reminder at all should remain of him. I order that if anyone is detected in concealing anything composed by Arius and not giving it up instantly for feeding it to the fire, his penalty shall be death." Edict of Thessalonica was issued by Roman Emperors: Theodosius I, Gratian, and Valentinian II. The decree made Nicene Christianity the state religion of the Roman Empire. "The doctrine of the Trinity should be embraced by those who would be called catholics; that all others should bear the infamous name of heretics" And these are far from all the books and/or doctrines that was burned or outlawed by the churched. With most of the times in a very violent way. So what can we get from this? In other word: POLITICS
It is clear that Cyril of Alexandria bullied and bend the rules. That is why every or most apostolic churches do not believe Nestorius was a heretic anymore.
Halo! Salam kenal saya juga dari Indonesia. Saya Katolik tpi saya penasaraan dgn status dan kondisi Gereja Ortodox di Indonesia. Apa Ortodox bakal disetujui pemerintah Indonesia? Apakah Ortodox di Indonesia disahkan Gereja Ortodox? Berapa perkiraan jumlah penduduk ortodox di Indonesia (atau paling tidak Jakarta)? Terima kasih saudara dan maaf saya telat balasnya selama 2 tahun 😅
So because of nestorias not only was he condemned but all of the Assyrians too? Imagine if they didn’t allow the assyrians to be persecuted, the middle east would be way better in that whole region not only more stability but the connection between the west and that region.
I've read that the reason that Theodoret of Cyrrus is not saint of the Palamist and Papist churches is because he was a personal friend of Nestorius, and defended him without giving in to Cyril. How do you feel about Theodoret?
@@arielvicentius4577 Well such an " Uninformed person" was Nestorios who refused to follow the friendly advise of Theodoritos and his patriarch John of Antioch to abolish his heresy and accept the teachings of the Church. Also 'Uniformed persons " are the Assyrians who refuse to accept the Holly 3rd Ecumenical Council of Ephesus, although it's final text was written by Theodoritos. For the Orthodox Church Theodoritos is not a saint but not a heretic either, he is an important ecclesiastical personality.. John and Theodoritos were close friends of Nestorios and tried to defend him without approving his theories, neither the teachings of their common spiritual father, Theodore of Mopsouestia.
@@Mygoalwogel No, but I am an adherent of the Antiochene School. I admire Theodore of Mopsuestia, Theodoret, Nestorius, the Syrian Christians because I believe they have the best soteriological insight, especially Theodore's concept of the Image of God in humans.
@@evangelosdiamantopoulos8608 You better read history, my friend. Why do you Greeks hate the Syrians so much? I read Father Romanides', whom I admire, diatribe. I cannot believe such hatred. I am dumbfounded.
When I first read about the Nestorian controversy, it struck me that Nestorius' 'crime' was to stand in the way of Mariolatry, which is no crime at all in my view. It is alleged that he went on to devise a far more dangerous doctrine, to protect his original position. I don't know how much truth there is in the allegation. However it is well known that Nestorius accepted the verdict against him and retreated from public involvement.
@@l21n18 So what did happen? What is a 'fundie'? Can you provide a coherent definition, or is the term simply a SMEAR for you? What of 'unity in the Spirit'? Or shall we separate into our little 'holy huddles', against the advice of 1st Corinthians 1:10-17? 'Jesus is Lord and Savior' is simply a statement of fact, not a declaration of 'tendency' or denominational allegiance. The word 'fundamentalism' may be understood in the older or the newer sense. In the older sense, it signifies defense of the authority of Scripture against attackers from the school of 'historical criticism'. In the more recent sense, it denotes a certain subculture within American Protestantism. I have very little acquaintance with that subculture and do not reside in the USA.
@@jesusislordsavior6343 so what church do you identify with because it sure sounds like fundamentalism to me as in the subculture within American Protestantism or a very low-grade evangelicalism
@@l21n18 What is 'low-grade evangelicalism'? Please define 'high-grade' vs. 'low-grade' evangelicalism, since you have appointed yourself as Judge. Until you do so convincingly, I will continue assuming that you are both prejudiced and ill-informed. I don't belong to any denomination, if you must know, but I have been a long-time fellow-traveler with two of the LEAST controversial among Protestants. I studiously avoid the politically committed kind-------------which may include the 'subculture' we were talking about. I had an invitation once to join that subculture, and refused in part because I did not want to get involved in their politics. I am not terribly fond of contemporary styles in worship music, being classically trained. Also it would be hard to 'fit in' with many of these groups, if one does not speak in tongues. Paul asks in Romans 10:13, 'HAS CHRIST BEEN DIVIDED?' Humans see denominational differences as a 'big deal', but I seriously doubt that God does. But correct doctrine on essential things IS essential.
@@juicyshawarma thank. I just got the book. I am a catholic who loves the church of the east / oriental orthodoxy / eastern orthodoxy - all alike. Because only these 4 sister churches are apostolic , despite their theological differences.
Why ACoE don't recognize Marriage as Sacrament? Also is there any plan for you guys there to bring back the use of Holy Icons? What is the official stance of ACoE concerning Holy Icons?
Marriage was not recognized as a Sacrament of the Church in the early church. That does not mean a church wedding is improper, just that the idea God communicates salvific grace to you through marriage is a development.
There were many sacrament lists made over the centuries. Some of our writers wrote about the sacraments they included marriage as one of the sacraments. So there is nothing wrong about holding marriage as a sacrament, it’s just not in our current list, but it can still be a sacraments and it’s still holy and instituted by God
And some of our churches have started using icons again because we live in the west now and we only stopped using them in the first place because of muslims. Actually we still used them in little books because they could be easily hidden from muslims but you can’t hide a giant painted icon on a wall
The Greek title "Theotokos/the one gave birth to God" is not found there in the Holy Bible. But Catholics and Orthodox brethren ask us: is not the one born of Mary God? We answer YES He is God, but He is God incarnate, namely God became man, and as man according to His humanity did the Virgin give birth to Him. And therefore we call the all holy "Christotokos/the one gave birth to Christ" becuse the title Christ is indicative of one Person in two natures (divinity and humanity), but the title God is indicative of Godhead and does not express the incarnation. This is the teaching of St. Nestorius and the rest of the holy fathers of the Assyrian Church of the East. This is the Apostolic teaching kept in the Church of the East. But those wo condamned St. Nestorius accused him of many heresies of which he was inccoent such as: dividing the natures of the Son of God, or teaching not real but moral union, and also accused him of teaching two persons in Christ and two sons. All these accusations are refuted by St. Nestorius in his book called The Bazaar of Heracleides." Thank you dears in Christ
Most modern protestants, such as the respectable groups of evangelicalism, and expert theologians believe Mary being the mother of God is absurd and rooted in nothing but irrationalism. It cannot be true, it defies logic. She was the mother of christ as a man. Its impossible to defy this. Completely irrational
I do really invite all Catholics and Orthodox beloved brethren to study the writings of St. Nestorius independently without prejudices, and I am sure they shall find the same Orthodox faith is being expressed but in different ways. The Church of the East has always taught that Incranation of the Son of God is a divine mystery, and thus no one can express it adequately. Therefore, as long as we all have the same essence of faith, we should be open-minded towards the different expressions of our churches, because we only differ in philosophical terms not in doctrine. St. Nestorius expressed the doctrine in a different way than that of Cyril of Alexandria, unfortunately the latter's language was made the norm of orthodoxy at Ephesus 431 AD, and thus the former was consequently regarded as an heretic till this very moment. May God forgive them!
@@samirjacob6106 May God forgive YOU for still rejecting stubbornly the Catholic faith after almost 16 Centuries that the Council Of Ephesus, when you were fairly condemned and anathematized by the Church, did finished. Your false "church" is not the Church of Our Lord, but an ethnocultural schismatic group for assyrians. A group like you in no way can be the Catholic Church nor can you be called Christians.
I am an East Syrian Catholic and even though we celebrate the Anaphora of Nestorius, what Nestorius taught is wrong. We celebrate it without the distinction between the dual characteristics of Jesus. This explanation given above does not take away the heresy of Nestorius. In any way, it actually strengthens the heresy. Jesus is fully God, fully Man. And whether we say, Mother of God or Mother of Jesus, we refer to the Mother of the fully man and fully God. Thus these titles do not nullify each other but have the same meaning, just because of the duality of Jesus.
@@eduds6 Postmodern protestants are heretics, not staying true to the teachings of the Apostles and the Early Fathers. They are divided within themselves because they have different interpretations of the Bible. I, once went to a Pentecostal church to find out what they actually believed in. I was surprised by the varying perspectives and beliefs of the people within that single church. Some say they need Baptism for Salvation, some say they don't need it.
for me... Ancient Church of the East is closest to the true than the oder church.. Two Nature is more logic than only one nature.. can a God die? it's funny.. The soul is eternal.. God also Eternal.. this very logic and closer to Judaism ( Nazarene ), other was helenism or has influenced paganisme taught. from Indonesia. thank's
Ok? we have a soul (eternal) but our body is not eternal and dies, but the word of God BECAME flesh, so of course, just the flesh died, as when we dead (just the flesh). I agree currently the term mother of God is not so accurate, but against dualism it was very good to explain the true doctrine, the problem now is that because of that "title" people started idolatrous Mary, but it was the same with apostles, and others fathers of the church, sadly people love to go into others but God
Basically an argument from silence... Also keep in mind, this arises because Nestorius didn't like the term Theotokos, which isn't in the Bible but neither the word Trinity is. Very weak argument.
Nestorius himself used the term Theotokos! He just wanted people to be careful using it, because the ignorant people might think that Saint Mary gave birth to the Godhead himself which is false. And he was right, because muslims today have their false argument “how could god be born” this is what Nestorius wanted to avoid
I would like more clarification on his response to the Mother of God. I agree with him that we can call St. Mary the mother of Jesus but would the Church of the East accept us calling Mary the Mother of God?
Goksel Tumen here is Facebook link that you may be able to contact someone through :m.facebook.com/Assyrian-Church-of-the-East-Diocese-of-the-Eastern-USA-1538000919831318/ I apologize for not responding sooner , I just saw your question .
@@allpoints-tv I listened carefully to what this presbyter has said on this brief presentation. But what is the Christological view of the person of Christ?
@@jesuschristismygodtotheglo7533 two natures of Christ. All man All God Jesus’ human nature died on the cross. Of course God did not die. That’s not possible.
There is book but currently it’s being revised so it’s out of print . The book is entitled Mysteries of the Kingdom : Sacraments of the Assyrian Church of the East by Bishop Mar Awa Royel it’s published by Edessa Publications . I had the pleasure of meeting Bishop Mar Awa Royel about 3 years ago . You can also search RUclips for videos by him . Hope this helps
Magno BraI I will ask the priest about what he would recommend . Also check this video out if you haven’t already : ruclips.net/video/qhdLKBKNf0I/видео.html
You are hundred % correct, Virgin Mary is Mother of GOD, because in the Bible Apostle John wrote the word is GOD who become human on his first chapter Gosple of Jhon. It is no use of arguing with Nestorians' or other hearsay groups they are chosen to spread hearsay and cannot do other wise. Our Lord Jesus Christ is God and Virgn Mery is the Mother of GOD, any body who confess other wise is from the underworld.
How did His blood save you if He is not God? See Acts 20:28 where it states GOD purchased with HIS OWN blood. She is certainly not the source of God but she very well is the Mother of God the Incarnate Logos. Otherwise, only a man died on that cross and his blood would do nothing for the world in that simple state.
No..part of them split and became the caldean catholic church, basically same church in communion with the holy father in Rome.. but the ACOE is apostolic but independent of Catholicism, eastern orthodoxy, Oriental Orthodoxy, and protestantism...all these Church, except for protestantism, were all in communion with each other before 424..in 424, but officially 431, ACOE went in schism..then in 451, it was Oriental Orthodoxy, then in 1054 Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy separated..hope this helps, even if a little belated..God bless Mary protect
So do you believe the Nicene Creed? If yes, do you also believe that Jesus Christ is *homoousios with the Father* (as the Creed says) *or* do you believe that he is *homoiousios* (of like substance) as Theodosius 2 did?
The Nicene Creed is a cornerstone of Christian faith, expressing the belief in the Trinity and the nature of Christ. As for the specific terms "homoousios" and "homoiousios," these have been subjects of significant theological debate historically. Homoousios (of the same substance) emphasizes that Jesus Christ is of the same essence as the Father, affirming his divinity fully and equally with God the Father. This was the stance taken by the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD to combat Arianism, which denied the full divinity of Jesus. Homoiousios (of like substance) suggests that Jesus Christ is of a similar, but not identical, essence to the Father. This term was associated with Semi-Arianism, which aimed to create a middle ground between Arianism and the Nicene definition. In contemporary Christian orthodoxy, the belief in Jesus Christ being "homoousios" with the Father is the accepted doctrine, aligning with the Nicene Creed. The Nicene Creed explicitly states that Jesus Christ is "begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father." This emphasizes the unity and co-equality of the Son with the Father, which is a fundamental aspect of Trinitarian theology. Ultimately, the choice between these terms reflects one's theological stance on the nature of Christ's divinity. Belief in "homoousios" aligns with orthodox Christianity, affirming that Jesus Christ is fully divine and equal with the Father, whereas "homoiousios" reflects a different interpretation of Christ's nature.
Romans 10:9 declares 'that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.' Very anti-sectarian in its implications, this verse. Let us be firmly established in the essentials, which desperately need to be communicated to an unbelieving world.
@@HandsomeMonkey-King Curiously, I've seen non-Protestants do the very same thing. Observe the Romanist obsession with Matthew 16:18 as a 'proof-text' supporting their peculiar system of religious AUTOCRACY. What 'group' is prone to over-generalization about other 'groups'? Could you tell me that, please? If you answer, 'Protestants', I will know that you have a bee in your bonnet. Buzz, buzz.
God Gave us this knowledge to use. But you don’t understand it and then you think we believe something else than Jesus is our lord an savior. Yes he is, but if you want to learn theology and philosophy great! It’s just that ur contradicting yourself my brother.
In the Old Testament it says Moses spoke to God face-to-face even though more specifically He spoke to God the Logos. When Mary gave birth to Jesus Christ the Logos she gave birth to God. The question isn't that Nestorius at some point said "two natures one person" it is also what he meant. If he meant the same thing as the Eastern Orthodox he would have no reservation in calling Mary Theotokos. In the Old Testament the king's mother was given the title of queen which is why we also refer her as the Queen of Heavan. Eastern Orthodox also believe that Ecumenical Councils are infallible and there is only one Church the bride of Christ. Ecumenical Councils are infallible because the Church is the body of Christ and has the Holy Spirit which will lead His Church into all Truth. Furthermore, Christ promised that the gates of Hell will not prevail against the Church. The other issue I see is calling Nestorius a saint when he is condemned by an Ecumenical council. The Eastern Orthodox Church has saints who receive Direct revelation from God, receive Spiritual gifts, and perform miracles. I am not aware of the miracles or Nestorius even though he was a bishop. Orthodoxy holds bishops are not infallible and can be wrong but the whole voice of the Church can not be. Traditional Orthodox ecclesiology also holds to a visible Church which is why we not only guard against heresy but the schism of schismatics. The Eastern Orthodox Church has a continuous procession of saints from Christ until today. Some modern saints include Saint Gabriel, Saint Porphyrious, and Saint Paisios. The Roman Catholic Church also has modern saints but their saints is not in line with the ascetical theology from the Desert Fathers including Isaac the Syrian to Gregory Palamas as represented in the Philokalia as Roman Catholic do not have concepts of Prelest or a concept of Theosis which requires the underpinning of energy/essence distinction.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the subject. It's clear that there's a deep and nuanced theological debate here. Regarding the Old Testament reference, it's fascinating how different traditions interpret encounters with the divine, and your point about the Logos and the nature of Christ highlights a critical theological distinction. The question of Nestorius and his views is indeed complex. The term "Theotokos" and its implications for Christology have been central to many discussions and disputes within the Christian tradition. The Eastern Orthodox perspective on Ecumenical Councils and the infallibility of the Church is rooted in a profound understanding of the Church as the Body of Christ, guided by the Holy Spirit. This belief underscores the importance of unity and continuity within the Church, as well as the significance of saints who have been recognized for their spiritual gifts and miracles. Your mention of modern saints in the Eastern Orthodox tradition, such as Saint Gabriel, Saint Porphyrious, and Saint Paisios, highlights the ongoing spiritual legacy that is central to the faith. The differences between Orthodox and Roman Catholic saints, particularly regarding ascetical theology and concepts like Theosis and Prelest, reflect the unique theological and spiritual traditions that have developed within each branch of Christianity. It's always enlightening to engage in these discussions and explore the rich tapestry of beliefs and traditions within Christianity. Thank you for contributing to this conversation.
although nestorias was correct but he is still wrong when he refused the title mother of god.If jesus is god ,then she is mother of god.she gave flesh to jesus.
How can you say that the whole church was wrong or that the Church misunderstood what nestorius taught when he spoke greek The letter of pope Coelestine to the Synod of Ephesus A Synod of priests gives witness to the presence of the Holy Spirit. For true is that which we read, since the Truth cannot lie, to wit, the promise of the Gospel; Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. And since this is so, if the Holy Spirit is not absent from so small a number how much more may we believe he is present when so great a multitude of holy ones are assembled together!
How can Mary give birth to God? Lol. That’s ridiculous and impossible. Did God not exist prior to Mary? Of course the answer is yes. Mary is mother of Christ.
@@mole215 that’s way too complicated. Stop trying to force it. God created the earth and humanity right? Jesus is God which means he existed before Mary was born. Mary gave birth to God? That’s impossible. If anything, God actually gave birth to Mary. Approach it with an open mind and without your ego trying to run the argument. Nestorious was excommunicated for this during the 3rd ecumenical council. Cyril of Egypt and Nestorious had a personal beef. Prior to the council Nestorious was on his way but had some difficulty while traveling. He was prepared to defend his position at the council that Mary is the mother of Christ. They waited And waited… days went by and Nestorious still didn’t show up. Cyril of Egypt pushed to start the council without Nestorious. Cyril spoke his position and pretty much threw Nestorious under the bus. Since nobody from Nestorious side to defend the position, the council, after being urged by Cyril, excommunicated Nestorious labeling him a heretic. The viewpoint that Mary is the mother of Christ was officially outlawed by the Orthodox Church. Nestorious finally arrived a week or two later but it was too late. He was anathama’d and labeled a heretic. The Assyrian church of the east, knowing the truth decided not to turn their back on Nestorious, like the rest of the council. Because of this, the Assyrian church is known by many as the “Nestorian Church” To this day The Assyrian church still refers to Mary as the mother of Christ. The church also does not recognize the book of revelation. In 1994, the Assyrian church of the east under the great patriarch Mar Dinkha mey with the Roman Catholic Church under Pope john paul II. The Roman Catholic Church capitulated and rescinded their order of excommunication of the Assyrian church. (You can look up the agreement) This meeting was done quietly but it was a HUGE statement. It took almost 2000 years for the Roman Catholic Church to finally say.. you were right. Mary is the mother of Christ.
The ACoE isn't in communion with RC, EO, or OO. Does it claim to be the One True Church, while the others aren't in the same sense? Also, does the following statement contain Christological heresy? “He [God the Word] granted to him [Jesus] that he [Jesus] should be worshipped with himself [God the Word] indistinguishably, with a single act of worship for the Man who became Lord and for the Divinity equally...For we believe that all that applies to the Man is raised up to the Word who accepts it for himself, having willed to make him [Jesus] share with this honor.”
It is in communion with RC. The Church of the East is open to all baptized Christians. I’m not sure on their stance on them being the True Church. The most I have heard from them is that they are the oldest church (which is technically true).
@@jamesr.g.2320 No they aren't. Chaldeans left ACOE and became Chaldean Catholics. ACOE doesn't accept the Holy Council of Ephesus, nor other RC councils after Chalcedon.
@@jamesr.g.2320 no it's not in communiion by simply accepting people from all denomination doesn't make it in "communion" in "communion" means who share the same faith. Who are in accordance to the same "Creed" which is in accordance with the 3 major councils namely nicea Constantinople and Ephesus.
@thomas : Yes they don't have any communion with the Oriental orthdox also. These heretics were once a minor part In our church long before our church re-established the apostolic succession with the help of the syriac orthrodox church( Antioch). Our church is the Indian orthodox church founded by the apsotle St Thomas around AD52 . After long periods of time it almost vanished the true faith but apostolic succession was regained from the orthodox catholicate of the east ( maphriyaite) and later in 1912 this was shifted from the selucia cestiphone to Kerala by thrice blessed H.H ignatios abdel missiha II the patriarch of the universal syirac orthodox church(Antioch) we are in communion with them till date. But there is still a faction in north kerala (kunnamkulam) who is a sort of archdiocese of the asyrian church of the east.. actually they follow the nestorian faith and are in communion with this church of the east .
I would suggest that you find if there are Assyrian Church of the East in your country. If there are churches there contact the priest ( Qasha) at the church to see what steps you would have to go through to become a member. And please let us know how your search went and what you find out .
@@user-si8vd4ek9v No, the Assyrian Church is not in union with Rome. I will ask Qasha Ameer Brikha for clarification though so I won’t be giving out incorrect information and I will try to post it as soon as I can. Thank you for your question
I respectfully disagree. It's not that Nestorius used the term Mother of Christ. It's that he dissuaded believers from using the term Mother of God (i.e. told them not to say it). If there's no difference then why did Nestorius say anything about it at all? I would also like to note that Nestorius was the Archbishop of Constantinople at the time. St Cyril was the Archbishop of Alexandria. St Cyril went to Rome for guidance. Another early example in Church history of the preeminence given to the Catholic Church.
From what I have read though , the Assyrian Church really had not embraced the teachings of Nestor . According to what I read the Assyrian church was in existence before Nestor was born so he wasn’t a creator of the their theological viewpoints . As to the Church of Rome being preeminent or not is a debate that will never end in my opinion .
@@allpoints-tv The priest sounded like he was making excuses for Nestorius and minimizing the statement he made. He should've just said what you did and explained why the churches that supported Nestorius did so. Seems like those churches went through a lot of trouble by leaving the council with Nestorius if they didn't actually agree with what he said. Hard to believe you would do that over a non-issue in violation of Christ's prayer for unity in the Gospel of John.
I think the leaders of the Assyrian church were reluctant to condemn Nestor so that reluctance was seen as support . I’m not a theologian by any means but from what I read that is what conclusions I came to . The Church of Rome , from what I have read , doesn’t call the Virgin Mary “ Theotokos” either , all though they do maintain she was a Virgin . The term “ Theotokos “ is hard to wrap my mind around , “ the bearer of God “ . Jesus was God , the Son of God and also born of a Virgin human woman . It’s very easy to slip into what some would see as a “ heresy “ . But I was told long ago , theology is essentially hair splitting .
@@allpoints-tv I'm not a theologian either and understand what you're saying. It's just very disappointing to see. They're very smart and had to know the implication would be they supported Nestorius. They still seem reluctant to condemn him to this day. This theological topic wasn't considered hairsplitting at the time or a council would not have been called, but again I understand your point (filioque may be another example). All of these splittings of the Church reflect negatively on Christ and result in the loss of souls, which is what frustrates me the most. No one seems to care enough (on all sides) about His prayer in the Gospel of John to re-unite and yet they all claim to follow Him. If they don't believe this is a big deal then they need to get back to the table and attempt to unify the Church for the sake of the world. The problem is pride and temporal power (again on all sides). I also think this conversation drove Monophysites in the opposite direction in their response. Just sad.
The Christians ( all the bodies and rites and denominations and the constant splintering and faction creation) certainly have given the world (and the critics within ) plenty of targets to aim at when it comes to showing how we aren’t “ Christian “ like in our conduct .
4:30 this guy who is dressed as some priest is just an absolute heteric! St Mary is the mother of God. When Elizabeth saw at Mary we see in the visitation story she addressed St Mary as the mother of God... I am amazed that there are some who are entirely in doubt as to whether the holy Virgin should be called Theotokos or not. For if our Lord Jesus Christ is God, how is the holy Virgin who gave Him birth, not Theotokos ? - Saint Cyril of Alexandria.
You do right in using the word *If*. I think what happens is that some people realize the fear of believing something wrong, because they start to see how much wrong is being done in their religion or group. It is an awakening. So in an attempt to avoid mistakes they start to take the bible more literally and listen less to other people. In regard to your comment then it would be this: In multiple situations Jesus said he was *son of Man*, and when referring to God he said *my Father in heaven*. And God said, *this is my Son*. Perhaps the only verse that people use to say that Jesus is God is John 14:9, "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father". However, in the context Jesus is speaking that everything he says and everything he does is in agreement with God. If you believe Jesus is God, the only God who became flesh, then you are facing many difficult verses that you need to explain, which will result in that you must make more assumptions. If you believe Jesus is the Son of the living God, then Jesus might say this to you, Matthew 16:17 "And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. "
@@hammurabi8246 Please go and understand the complete context of those verse. Lord Jesus told it didn't come from "flesh or blood" means Jesus meant it Didint come from any "humans" but that knowledge that you know that I am God is from God the father. Again Our Lord said to bar Kepha ( St Peter ) on you I shall bulid my church is what Jesus said after St Peter told to Jesus that he is God and in reply Jesus said it is truly my father that has revealed it to you. Why u want to stress that simply when Jesus said that flesh and blood don't reveal this so u conclude that Jesus is implying that he has two forms seperated my dear Jesus is God and he took flesh and blood in the womb of St Mary the mother of God. The God who was unseen to his creation is now revealed and he is visible to his creation.. I'm not just citing some verses it is the truth and of course for us jacobites as u call us we don't consider the Bible as the foundation of the Christian faith it is the Faith in the God that revealed himself to us it is he who gave us his body and his blood as the food of the soul so we don't perish and it is the holy traditions and the faith that was handed over to the holy apostles by Lord Jesus whom inturn passed it over to the church fathers and through them to the present church. Orthodoxy is what Christ taught it is what the apostles preached and it is definately what the holy fathers kept.
@@lijukunchandynellimootilho5037 I am quoting you now " St Peter told to Jesus that he is God". This is false. In my first reply to you I quoted the Bible verse, so I guess you did not read my first reply to you.
@@hammurabi8246 you clearly deny Lord Jesus is God. But Jesus Christ is to us One and the same Son, the Self-same Perfect in Godhead, the Self-same Perfect in Manhood; truly God and truly Man; the Self-same of a rational soul and body; co-essential with the Father according to the Godhead, the Self-same co-essential with us according to the Manhood; like us in all things, sin apart; before the ages begotten of the Father as to the Godhead, but in the last days, the Self-same, for us and for our salvation (born) of the ever virgin St Mary the theotokos as to the Manhood; One and the Same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten; acknowledged in Two Natures unconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably; the difference of the Natures being in no way removed because of the Union, but rather the properties of each Nature being preserved, and (both) concurring into One Person and One Hypostasis; not as though He was parted or divided into Two Persons, but One and the Self-same Son and Only-begotten God, Word, Lord, Jesus Christ; even as from the beginning the prophets have taught concerning Him, and as the Lord Jesus Christ Himself hath taught us, and as the Symbol of the Fathers hath handed down to us.
Not True, the Assyrians are not Arabs neither other Christian communities in Iraq. Assyrians don’t even look like Arabs. Go educate yourself Indian boy. And Aramaic has been spoken by the Assyrians since the establishment of the neo Assyrian Empire.
@@Marsel-ov6yg3im5c Not true. Iraqi Christians are Nestorians who speak the language of Aramaic. They're Arameans who used to live in the desert of Arabia and moved to Mesopotamia. After the fall of the Neo Assyrian empire, the Arameans created their own state and the official language of Iraq was Aramean prior to the Islamic rule of Iraq during Khalid ibn Al Waleed. Then the official language was switched to Arabic and most of the Nestorians mingled with the Muslims and adapted a new way of life. Whereas the Nestorians who lived in mountainous areas maintained their Christian beliefs and Aramean language. 😄 We're not Assyrians or Babylonians or Sumerians or Akkadians. We are Arameans/Nestorians. If you think you're Assyrian then go read an ancient Assyrian tablet in museums for me or speak ancient Assyrian. 😂 This Assyrian thing was created by the Church because of the conflict that was going on in Europe at the time between the eastern Orthodox church, Protestantism, catholicism, etc, etc. It's sad that you have no knowledge of our history.
@@johnlemma401 You don’t even look Assyrian, you look Indian. Second, when a group of people identify themselves as an ethnic group then they’re and historically the Neo-Assyrian Empire adopted Aramaic as the language. And third you can’t be Assyrian you can be Arab but you can’t force your disgusting opinion on other Assyrians. Third, the existing of modern Assyrians is proved in the Holy Bible and various sources. Does that make sense Mr.Lamma
Don't all humans have two nature's, the flesh and the spirit? We have our own spirit. Jesus had the Word for His Spirit. The Bible straight up says God is Spirit and God is not a man, and a Spirit does not have flesh and bone.
@Anthony James - Jesus' body never went to hell. His spirit did. Jesus said a spirit does not have flesh and bone. I agree that you can not be a human without a spirit, but you can be a spirit without a body.
@Phil Andrew This is the problem with applying esoteric Greek philosophical terms as dogmatic to metaphysics. Quite simply, WE DON'T KNOW what a soul/spirit/human nature really are. Why are we burdening people with these extra beliefs using words and concepts foreign to the New Testament and its writers?
Where does it lead If you are not informed enough Jesu promised to Apostles that Holy Spirit will lead them in all truth Church gatherd at councils and they decided things You can see the example in Acts 15 the first council And the fact is that Jesus is God that is not an idea but fact The Divine Person Logos became flesh took human nature fully Divine fully man one person two natures one eternal one created If you are muslim we can talk about how quran doesnt teach perfect unitarianism but quran teaches nonsense because al lah is obviously not god and quran was written by man not by God Quran alone says that al lah abrogates verses and replace them with the same verse or with better which means that al lah in eternity made mistakes or his words were not perfect but he had to correct what he already wrote And why would he reveal the verse which are wrong why cant he reveal only the verses which are right Why he reveales the verses which he already in eternity has corrected
Still it is a heretic church, not just the theotokos dogma, its much more than that, the church of the east just like Nestor teaches that Jesus is 2 persons 1 human and 1 Divine which is a heresy, Jesus is 1 person in 2 natures , also the church of the east believes that the Divine nature was with jesus just 3 years the day he got baptized up until he died on the Cross the Divine nature left him cuz God Can't die.
What are you talking about 🤣 1. The book bazaar of Heracleides shows Nestorius proclaiming Christ is 1 person, with 2 natures. 2. We the Assyrian church believe in the orthodox belief of Christ being eternally divine. 3. We do not believe the divine nature left him before death. Seriously how do you think we even define death? We believe death is defined as the destruction of flesh and soul. Dying as a human doesn’t equal our definition of death. So that part doesn’t even make sense because why would we make such a belief you’re accusing us of, if we believe death doesn’t mean “cease to exist”. Seriously, just pick up the bazaar of Heracleides, and you’ll see. Where did you even get the second part? From your orthodox friends?
@@allpoints-tv first of all, the priest mentions how Theotokos isn’t in the scriptures. That doesn’t matter because that is like saying trinity isn’t in the Bible so we must reject the trinity. We actually fathers like St athanasius use theotokos. Second he mentions how we don’t have nestorius’ writings, we actually have his 12 counter-anathemas against Cyril. They’re all nestorian and rejecting the hypostatic union. Finally, he talks about how the churches were envious of nestorius, actually he preached heresy and was condemned for it. That’s why after St Cyril and John of Antioch has their formula of reunion after they heard each other and Antioch stop supporting nestorius
@Anthony James oh then yes thank you for the response to this. Even if it isn’t, who cares? The term trinity isn’t in the Bible, so might as well say trinity isn’t biblical, which is retarded
@@darklord7069 You say that the term 'Trinity' is not in the Bible. It comes awfully close to making it, though. See 2nd Corinthians 13:14. Also Jesus spends a lot of time talking about the relationships within the triune Godhead (John chapters 14-17). On the other hand, the term 'Theotokos' is a first step along the road to Mariolatry, which the New Testament does not support: 1. Mary herself is not mentioned in the historical record after Acts 1:14. In that instance she is called 'Mary mother of Jesus.' 2. (1st Timothy 2:5) 'For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.' So much for Mary being a 'mediatrix' (female mediator). Prayers to Mary are not appropriate.
@@ninetiesmoda You are Syriac. You cannot speak for us Nestorians. We Nestorians, Christian Kurds. You cannot deceive us by doing empty Assyrian nationalism. You are also very ignorant. There are Kurds of all religions. Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Yezidi, Kakei (Yarsan, Ahli haqq), Alevi, Zoroastrian ... and also Deist, Atheist, Agnostic ... Kurds have it. The Muslim Kurdish population is at most 55%. Also, Islam was spread by Arabs. Your and the Arabs are Semitic. So Islam is not the property of the Kurds 😃😃😃
@@deepspacefighter2706 what nonsense are you talking about, your whole statement does not make sense, first of all Syriac is the modern Aramic language that Assyrians speak. Second of all kurds are Muslims and not Christians and Assyrians are definitely not Kurds and all Assyrians are Christian btw, and if you knew anything about the lands that the Kurds have stolen, you would also know that they are Assyian lands and everytime you dig you will find their antiquity, if you want to educate yourself about Assyrians check them out in every history book, or better yet google Mesopotamia and Assyria for that matter and thirdly the word "semitic" stands for a dialogic of languages and those include Aramic (ie modern Assyrian-Syriac), Hebrew, Arabic and some others. While the Assyrians have been around since 3500 BC (which stands for Before Christ btw), and became Christians 2020-years ago. Islam has only been around since the the mid 7th century CE ( thats is around 650 Common Era) and it was the Christians of the middle east that educated the Arab world about science, philosophy, mathematics, languages, and etc because they did not know how to translate those theoretical writings of Greek and other languages to Arabic. So there were Assyrians-Christians-Aramic(Syriac) speaking people in the middle east, specifically in Mesopotamia, way before any Kurds-Muslim-Arabic speaking people. And the Kurds are gypsies that came from the north, specifically Iran (gypsies because they have never had a land of their own and just want to take pieces from the surrounding coutires, for example from Iraq (modern day Assyrian lands), Turkey and Syrian. Its sad really, either you don't know your own Islamic history or you want to remain ignorant.
@@deepspacefighter2706 what Assyrian would consider themselves Kurds, its actually a discrace to all those Assyrians that were slaughter by the government of Iraq and the Kurds in Simele. Its actually hard to comprehend how you can disregard generations of beautiful history for a people that have no basis to their claim and who are never going to be accepted as a nation because the international community knows that those lands are not theirs. Sad really if you are an uneducated individual who doesn't know left from right and are ignorant of what Assyrian identity and pride is.
@@allpoints-tv He won't dare, because he doesn't know anything about it but only follows (without any true understanding) what his "church" says/teaches to him.
@@allpoints-tv I am not angry... I just want to tell that many people think they know the "truth" only because they were taught so without any searching for the Truth Himself.
The Church of the East is astounding. You were the first church to truly appreciate the geographic aspect of the word catholic, spreading even into every province and county of China! May Our Lord continue to bless your church amid the terrible persecution you are continually suffering.
I agree wholeheartedly - they are full of martyrs. I admire them.
Thank you for your kind words my friend
@@jamesr.g.2320 hello, is there any book about your church that I could read? Or your religious book? I'm very interested.
Read the prophetic perspective on covid19 by Dr Ben Vatican on Amazon
@@rod.lunx0 did you ever find good book?
Story short: Nestorius wasn’t articulate, Cyril bullied him and misrepresented his views at a council he wasn’t even present at, he was condemned and his supporters fled to the Persian Empire, Church of the East refused to anathematize Nestorius and have traditionally maintained he wasn’t Nestorian, Western theologians further misrepresented the views of the Church of the East via language barriers, and now because Europeans decide it, the legacy of this marvelous church has to be attached to a heresy. All of you commenting hatred in this thread should be ashamed at yourselves for attacking such a persecuted Christians group.
Finally, someone who understands! Thumbs up to you! I admire and is proud of the Church of the East or the Nestorians or whatever people call this great and persecuted Christians - yes, they are Christians! God Bless Them!
You summed up pretty much how I think . I go to this church and I have talked to the people who tell me about the persecution their families faced and I am amazed how much they endured and when I read comments about “ heresy “ and “ heretical “ I’m almost given to anger . The Iraqi Christians never recanted or renounced their faith in Christ and suffer at the hands of Muslims and to hear other “ Christians “ tear them down over ( in my opinion ) over ridiculous and pointless arguments infuriates me. When their critics have endured the violence and persecution and hatred and still holds fast to their faith in Jesus perhaps I’ll listen to them . Until then I think I’ll cast my lot with these Christians , they are faithful . You can continue in your pointless theological hair splitting if you wish , I find it amusing .
Those saying that Nestorius and the Church of the East were heretical are probably just jealous because for a long time the European church were confined to a small, backward place, while the Church of the East spread far among some of the most advanced civilization on earth.
That or they dislike that not all of Christianity was as corrupt or cruel as the Medieval church.
European Christianity had often been linked with politics and this was proved when the Portuguese tried to bring tbe St. Thomas Christians under the control of the Pope.
You want to say that the council of ephesus 431 was pure circus
I am a catholic and i love nestorian (assyrian ) church too.
I'm proud of the Church of the East
We all believe, Jesus, is our savior. One day we will become reunited in one church. Pray for unity among the Assyrian Church of the East, Eastern Orthodox Church, and Oriental Orthodox Church. We were all united at the council of Nicaea, our differences are only due to misinterpretations. ܫܠܡܐ
What about Catholic church.
Are not we your brothers ???
@@seylanmadhusanka2198 Yes you are and we pray for you too
@@seylanmadhusanka2198 nobody’s going to hell over saying Mary is the mother of Christ vs saying Mary is the mother of God.
These arguments are made by people who geek out on theology.
agreed the true christians need to unite
Well nestorius would be more consistent with the scriptures on the union of two persons how I go over it in my video on my problem with Orthodoxy. If anyone cares???
We are all Christian brothers and sisters in Christ.
3:26 "If Nestorius was wrong in his life why they destroy his book? Why they never actually keep his book to show to everyone: look what Nestorias actually wrote in his book or look what Nestorius actually said in his book."
Well, if that is your evidence for Nestrorius then one would can apply all that you just said and apply that to Arius. Why did they bann him to exil, why did they burn all his scriptures and writing. Why did they make it illegal to just own own of his books. Why if you have one of his book was it orded to be burned/destoryed? Was it because Arius was true?
Constantine's edict ordered:
"It is now my decision that Arius and such as have opinions similar to this should be called Porphyrians in order that they may have the name of those whose way of life they imitate.
In addition to this, if any treatise composed by Arius is found, let it be put into the fire, in order not only that this defective doctrinal works [Arius treatise] may be destroyed, but also that no reminder at all should remain of him.
I order that if anyone is detected in concealing anything composed by Arius and not giving it up instantly for feeding it to the fire, his penalty shall be death."
Edict of Thessalonica was issued by Roman Emperors: Theodosius I, Gratian, and Valentinian II. The decree made Nicene Christianity the state religion of the Roman Empire.
"The doctrine of the Trinity should be embraced by those who would be called catholics; that all others should bear the infamous name of heretics"
And these are far from all the books and/or doctrines that was burned or outlawed by the churched. With most of the times in a very violent way.
So what can we get from this? In other word: POLITICS
It is clear that Cyril of Alexandria bullied and bend the rules. That is why every or most apostolic churches do not believe Nestorius was a heretic anymore.
Love from Indonesian Orthodox ❤️
Halo! Salam kenal saya juga dari Indonesia. Saya Katolik tpi saya penasaraan dgn status dan kondisi Gereja Ortodox di Indonesia. Apa Ortodox bakal disetujui pemerintah Indonesia? Apakah Ortodox di Indonesia disahkan Gereja Ortodox? Berapa perkiraan jumlah penduduk ortodox di Indonesia (atau paling tidak Jakarta)? Terima kasih saudara dan maaf saya telat balasnya selama 2 tahun 😅
Thank you for this .
So because of nestorias not only was he condemned but all of the Assyrians too? Imagine if they didn’t allow the assyrians to be persecuted, the middle east would be way better in that whole region not only more stability but the connection between the west and that region.
I love the Assyrian church of the east
Rabi Qasha Amir Aziza gabbara. Much love from Chicago
South side Chicago?
I've read that the reason that Theodoret of Cyrrus is not saint of the Palamist and Papist churches is because he was a personal friend of Nestorius, and defended him without giving in to Cyril. How do you feel about Theodoret?
Only an uninformed person can condemn or reject the Great Theodoret of Cyrus. Sheer prejudism really.
@@arielvicentius4577 Are you Church of the East?
@@arielvicentius4577
Well such an " Uninformed person" was Nestorios who refused to follow the friendly advise of Theodoritos and his patriarch John of Antioch to abolish his heresy and accept the teachings of the Church.
Also 'Uniformed persons " are the Assyrians who refuse to accept the Holly 3rd Ecumenical Council of Ephesus, although it's final text was written by Theodoritos.
For the Orthodox Church Theodoritos is not a saint but not a heretic either, he is an important ecclesiastical personality..
John and Theodoritos were close friends of Nestorios and tried to defend him without approving his theories, neither the teachings of their common spiritual father, Theodore of Mopsouestia.
@@Mygoalwogel No, but I am an adherent of the Antiochene School. I admire Theodore of Mopsuestia, Theodoret, Nestorius, the Syrian Christians because I believe they have the best soteriological insight, especially Theodore's concept of the Image of God in humans.
@@evangelosdiamantopoulos8608 You better read history, my friend. Why do you Greeks hate the Syrians so much? I read Father Romanides', whom I admire, diatribe. I cannot believe such hatred. I am dumbfounded.
When I first read about the Nestorian controversy, it struck me that Nestorius' 'crime' was to stand in the way of Mariolatry, which is no crime at all in my view. It is alleged that he went on to devise a far more dangerous doctrine, to protect his original position. I don't know how much truth there is in the allegation. However it is well known that Nestorius accepted the verdict against him and retreated from public involvement.
Uh no that’s not what happened and I’m guessing you’re a fundie based on your username
@@l21n18
So what did happen? What is a 'fundie'? Can you provide a coherent definition, or is the term simply a SMEAR for you? What of 'unity in the Spirit'? Or shall we separate into our little 'holy huddles', against the advice of 1st Corinthians 1:10-17?
'Jesus is Lord and Savior' is simply a statement of fact, not a declaration of 'tendency' or denominational allegiance.
The word 'fundamentalism' may be understood in the older or the newer sense.
In the older sense, it signifies defense of the authority of Scripture against attackers from the school of 'historical criticism'.
In the more recent sense, it denotes a certain subculture within American Protestantism. I have very little acquaintance with that subculture and do not reside in the USA.
@@jesusislordsavior6343 so what church do you identify with because it sure sounds like fundamentalism to me as in the subculture within American Protestantism or a very low-grade evangelicalism
@@l21n18
What is 'low-grade evangelicalism'? Please define 'high-grade' vs. 'low-grade' evangelicalism, since you have appointed yourself as Judge. Until you do so convincingly, I will continue assuming that you are both prejudiced and ill-informed.
I don't belong to any denomination, if you must know, but I have been a long-time fellow-traveler with two of the LEAST controversial among Protestants. I studiously avoid the politically committed kind-------------which may include the 'subculture' we were talking about. I had an invitation once to join that subculture, and refused in part because I did not want to get involved in their politics. I am not terribly fond of contemporary styles in worship music, being classically trained. Also it would be hard to 'fit in' with many of these groups, if one does not speak in tongues.
Paul asks in Romans 10:13, 'HAS CHRIST BEEN DIVIDED?'
Humans see denominational differences as a 'big deal', but I seriously doubt that God does. But correct doctrine on essential things IS essential.
@@jesusislordsavior6343 agree. Well written. I like your style.
Is there an English translation of the Book that is attributed to Nestorius? I would love to read it, and learn more.
The book is called 'The Bazaar of Heracleides'
@@juicyshawarma thank. I just got the book.
I am a catholic who loves the church of the east / oriental orthodoxy / eastern orthodoxy - all alike.
Because only these 4 sister churches are apostolic , despite their theological differences.
Why ACoE don't recognize Marriage as Sacrament? Also is there any plan for you guys there to bring back the use of Holy Icons? What is the official stance of ACoE concerning Holy Icons?
Marriage was not recognized as a Sacrament of the Church in the early church. That does not mean a church wedding is improper, just that the idea God communicates salvific grace to you through marriage is a development.
There were many sacrament lists made over the centuries. Some of our writers wrote about the sacraments they included marriage as one of the sacraments. So there is nothing wrong about holding marriage as a sacrament, it’s just not in our current list, but it can still be a sacraments and it’s still holy and instituted by God
And some of our churches have started using icons again because we live in the west now and we only stopped using them in the first place because of muslims. Actually we still used them in little books because they could be easily hidden from muslims but you can’t hide a giant painted icon on a wall
Because there is only one mediator between God and man THE MAN JESUS CHRIST.
The Greek title "Theotokos/the one gave birth to God" is not found there in the Holy Bible. But Catholics and Orthodox brethren ask us: is not the one born of Mary God? We answer YES He is God, but He is God incarnate, namely God became man, and as man according to His humanity did the Virgin give birth to Him. And therefore we call the all holy "Christotokos/the one gave birth to Christ" becuse the title Christ is indicative of one Person in two natures (divinity and humanity), but the title God is indicative of Godhead and does not express the incarnation. This is the teaching of St. Nestorius and the rest of the holy fathers of the Assyrian Church of the East. This is the Apostolic teaching kept in the Church of the East. But those wo condamned St. Nestorius accused him of many heresies of which he was inccoent such as: dividing the natures of the Son of God, or teaching not real but moral union, and also accused him of teaching two persons in Christ and two sons. All these accusations are refuted by St. Nestorius in his book called The Bazaar of Heracleides." Thank you dears in Christ
Most modern protestants, such as the respectable groups of evangelicalism, and expert theologians believe Mary being the mother of God is absurd and rooted in nothing but irrationalism. It cannot be true, it defies logic. She was the mother of christ as a man. Its impossible to defy this. Completely irrational
I do really invite all Catholics and Orthodox beloved brethren to study the writings of St. Nestorius independently without prejudices, and I am sure they shall find the same Orthodox faith is being expressed but in different ways. The Church of the East has always taught that Incranation of the Son of God is a divine mystery, and thus no one can express it adequately. Therefore, as long as we all have the same essence of faith, we should be open-minded towards the different expressions of our churches, because we only differ in philosophical terms not in doctrine. St. Nestorius expressed the doctrine in a different way than that of Cyril of Alexandria, unfortunately the latter's language was made the norm of orthodoxy at Ephesus 431 AD, and thus the former was consequently regarded as an heretic till this very moment. May God forgive them!
@@samirjacob6106 May God forgive YOU for still rejecting stubbornly the Catholic faith after almost 16 Centuries that the Council Of Ephesus, when you were fairly condemned and anathematized by the Church, did finished. Your false "church" is not the Church of Our Lord, but an ethnocultural schismatic group for assyrians. A group like you in no way can be the Catholic Church nor can you be called Christians.
I am an East Syrian Catholic and even though we celebrate the Anaphora of Nestorius, what Nestorius taught is wrong. We celebrate it without the distinction between the dual characteristics of Jesus. This explanation given above does not take away the heresy of Nestorius. In any way, it actually strengthens the heresy. Jesus is fully God, fully Man. And whether we say, Mother of God or Mother of Jesus, we refer to the Mother of the fully man and fully God. Thus these titles do not nullify each other but have the same meaning, just because of the duality of Jesus.
@@eduds6 Postmodern protestants are heretics, not staying true to the teachings of the Apostles and the Early Fathers. They are divided within themselves because they have different interpretations of the Bible. I, once went to a Pentecostal church to find out what they actually believed in. I was surprised by the varying perspectives and beliefs of the people within that single church. Some say they need Baptism for Salvation, some say they don't need it.
for me... Ancient Church of the East is closest to the true than the oder church.. Two Nature is more logic than only one nature.. can a God die? it's funny.. The soul is eternal.. God also Eternal.. this very logic and closer to Judaism ( Nazarene ), other was helenism or has influenced paganisme taught. from Indonesia. thank's
Ok? we have a soul (eternal) but our body is not eternal and dies, but the word of God BECAME flesh, so of course, just the flesh died, as when we dead (just the flesh). I agree currently the term mother of God is not so accurate, but against dualism it was very good to explain the true doctrine, the problem now is that because of that "title" people started idolatrous Mary, but it was the same with apostles, and others fathers of the church, sadly people love to go into others but God
Basically an argument from silence... Also keep in mind, this arises because Nestorius didn't like the term Theotokos, which isn't in the Bible but neither the word Trinity is. Very weak argument.
Nestorius himself used the term Theotokos! He just wanted people to be careful using it, because the ignorant people might think that Saint Mary gave birth to the Godhead himself which is false. And he was right, because muslims today have their false argument “how could god be born” this is what Nestorius wanted to avoid
I am a catholic and hello my brothers
I would like more clarification on his response to the Mother of God. I agree with him that we can call St. Mary the mother of Jesus but would the Church of the East accept us calling Mary the Mother of God?
Good job Raby Qasha Ameer GOD bless you
Khayt Rabi Basma Kanoukh
is there any website or email address, I can get in contact and get further information about your church? Thank You.
Goksel Tumen here is Facebook link that you may be able to contact someone through :m.facebook.com/Assyrian-Church-of-the-East-Diocese-of-the-Eastern-USA-1538000919831318/ I apologize for not responding sooner , I just saw your question .
Goksel Tumen or you could try this website :news.assyrianchurch.org/
@@allpoints-tv I listened carefully to what this presbyter has said on this brief presentation. But what is the Christological view of the person of Christ?
@@jesuschristismygodtotheglo7533 two natures of Christ. All man All God
Jesus’ human nature died on the cross. Of course God did not die. That’s not possible.
Is there for sale the book he talões about? I would like to learm more about assyrian church doctrine and lithurgy.
There is book but currently it’s being revised so it’s out of print . The book is entitled Mysteries of the Kingdom : Sacraments of the Assyrian Church of the East by Bishop Mar Awa Royel it’s published by Edessa Publications . I had the pleasure of meeting Bishop Mar Awa Royel about 3 years ago . You can also search RUclips for videos by him . Hope this helps
@@allpoints-tv Any website woth articles in English?
@@allpoints-tv Thanks!
Magno BraI I will ask the priest about what he would recommend . Also check this video out if you haven’t already : ruclips.net/video/qhdLKBKNf0I/видео.html
Which type of the baptism in your church
If Christ is God and God the Son of the Holy Trinity is Christ, would not both Christotokos and Theotokos be correct titles of the Virgin Mary?
Accepting both sides is the mark of the true Catholic church.
You are hundred % correct, Virgin Mary is Mother of GOD, because in the Bible Apostle John wrote the word is GOD who become human on his first chapter Gosple of Jhon. It is no use of arguing with Nestorians' or other hearsay groups they are chosen to spread hearsay and cannot do other wise. Our Lord Jesus Christ is God and Virgn Mery is the Mother of GOD, any body who confess other wise is from the underworld.
@@meketealemesged1259 so true
It was meant for worship of God in spirit and not to be confused with worship of christ in the flesh . This may lead to pantheonism
I don't believe Mary is the God's mother but Christ human mother.
How did His blood save you if He is not God? See Acts 20:28 where it states GOD purchased with HIS OWN blood. She is certainly not the source of God but she very well is the Mother of God the Incarnate Logos. Otherwise, only a man died on that cross and his blood would do nothing for the world in that simple state.
Mothers don't give birth to Natures, they give birth to persons.
Jesus, the Person, is fully God and fully man
Is the Assyrian Catholic Church of the east Catholic? Is it United with the pope?
No catholic means universal and it's added in 1970 our church has Orthodox believe as we believe
No..part of them split and became the caldean catholic church, basically same church in communion with the holy father in Rome.. but the ACOE is apostolic but independent of Catholicism, eastern orthodoxy, Oriental Orthodoxy, and protestantism...all these Church, except for protestantism, were all in communion with each other before 424..in 424, but officially 431, ACOE went in schism..then in 451, it was Oriental Orthodoxy, then in 1054 Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy separated..hope this helps, even if a little belated..God bless Mary protect
GOD bless You Rabi
So do you believe the Nicene Creed? If yes, do you also believe that Jesus Christ is *homoousios with the Father* (as the Creed says) *or* do you believe that he is *homoiousios* (of like substance) as Theodosius 2 did?
The Nicene Creed is a cornerstone of Christian faith, expressing the belief in the Trinity and the nature of Christ. As for the specific terms "homoousios" and "homoiousios," these have been subjects of significant theological debate historically.
Homoousios (of the same substance) emphasizes that Jesus Christ is of the same essence as the Father, affirming his divinity fully and equally with God the Father. This was the stance taken by the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD to combat Arianism, which denied the full divinity of Jesus.
Homoiousios (of like substance) suggests that Jesus Christ is of a similar, but not identical, essence to the Father. This term was associated with Semi-Arianism, which aimed to create a middle ground between Arianism and the Nicene definition.
In contemporary Christian orthodoxy, the belief in Jesus Christ being "homoousios" with the Father is the accepted doctrine, aligning with the Nicene Creed. The Nicene Creed explicitly states that Jesus Christ is "begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father." This emphasizes the unity and co-equality of the Son with the Father, which is a fundamental aspect of Trinitarian theology.
Ultimately, the choice between these terms reflects one's theological stance on the nature of Christ's divinity. Belief in "homoousios" aligns with orthodox Christianity, affirming that Jesus Christ is fully divine and equal with the Father, whereas "homoiousios" reflects a different interpretation of Christ's nature.
Romans 10:9 declares 'that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.'
Very anti-sectarian in its implications, this verse. Let us be firmly established in the essentials, which desperately need to be communicated to an unbelieving world.
It's a protestant tendency to pick one verse to base a theology on.
@@HandsomeMonkey-King
Curiously, I've seen non-Protestants do the very same thing. Observe the Romanist obsession with Matthew 16:18 as a 'proof-text' supporting their peculiar system of religious AUTOCRACY.
What 'group' is prone to over-generalization about other 'groups'? Could you tell me that, please? If you answer, 'Protestants', I will know that you have a bee in your bonnet. Buzz, buzz.
@@jesusislordsavior6343 yeah Catholics are heretics.
@@HandsomeMonkey-King Better that than 50 million canons and decrees.
God Gave us this knowledge to use. But you don’t understand it and then you think we believe something else than Jesus is our lord an savior. Yes he is, but if you want to learn theology and philosophy great! It’s just that ur contradicting yourself my brother.
You did NOT answer the actual question 🤔
In the Old Testament it says Moses spoke to God face-to-face even though more specifically He spoke to God the Logos. When Mary gave birth to Jesus Christ the Logos she gave birth to God. The question isn't that Nestorius at some point said "two natures one person" it is also what he meant. If he meant the same thing as the Eastern Orthodox he would have no reservation in calling Mary Theotokos. In the Old Testament the king's mother was given the title of queen which is why we also refer her as the Queen of Heavan. Eastern Orthodox also believe that Ecumenical Councils are infallible and there is only one Church the bride of Christ. Ecumenical Councils are infallible because the Church is the body of Christ and has the Holy Spirit which will lead His Church into all Truth. Furthermore, Christ promised that the gates of Hell will not prevail against the Church.
The other issue I see is calling Nestorius a saint when he is condemned by an Ecumenical council. The Eastern Orthodox Church has saints who receive Direct revelation from God, receive Spiritual gifts, and perform miracles. I am not aware of the miracles or Nestorius even though he was a bishop. Orthodoxy holds bishops are not infallible and can be wrong but the whole voice of the Church can not be. Traditional Orthodox ecclesiology also holds to a visible Church which is why we not only guard against heresy but the schism of schismatics.
The Eastern Orthodox Church has a continuous procession of saints from Christ until today. Some modern saints include Saint Gabriel, Saint Porphyrious, and Saint Paisios. The Roman Catholic Church also has modern saints but their saints is not in line with the ascetical theology from the Desert Fathers including Isaac the Syrian to Gregory Palamas as represented in the Philokalia as Roman Catholic do not have concepts of Prelest or a concept of Theosis which requires the underpinning of energy/essence distinction.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the subject. It's clear that there's a deep and nuanced theological debate here.
Regarding the Old Testament reference, it's fascinating how different traditions interpret encounters with the divine, and your point about the Logos and the nature of Christ highlights a critical theological distinction. The question of Nestorius and his views is indeed complex. The term "Theotokos" and its implications for Christology have been central to many discussions and disputes within the Christian tradition.
The Eastern Orthodox perspective on Ecumenical Councils and the infallibility of the Church is rooted in a profound understanding of the Church as the Body of Christ, guided by the Holy Spirit. This belief underscores the importance of unity and continuity within the Church, as well as the significance of saints who have been recognized for their spiritual gifts and miracles.
Your mention of modern saints in the Eastern Orthodox tradition, such as Saint Gabriel, Saint Porphyrious, and Saint Paisios, highlights the ongoing spiritual legacy that is central to the faith. The differences between Orthodox and Roman Catholic saints, particularly regarding ascetical theology and concepts like Theosis and Prelest, reflect the unique theological and spiritual traditions that have developed within each branch of Christianity.
It's always enlightening to engage in these discussions and explore the rich tapestry of beliefs and traditions within Christianity. Thank you for contributing to this conversation.
In short, then, yes.
JESUS was fully man and fully God. He called Mary his mother for 33 years. The rest is logical.
Yes they are Nestorian without a doubt. My parents marriage certificate says so.
although nestorias was correct but he is still wrong when he refused the title mother of god.If jesus is god ,then she is mother of god.she gave flesh to jesus.
He didn’t refuse the title, he used it himself. He just wanted people to be careful when they use it
How can you say that the whole church was wrong or that the Church misunderstood what nestorius taught when he spoke greek
The letter of pope Coelestine to the Synod of Ephesus
A Synod of priests gives witness to the presence of the Holy Spirit. For true is that which we read, since the Truth cannot lie, to wit, the promise of the Gospel; Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. And since this is so, if the Holy Spirit is not absent from so small a number how much more may we believe he is present when so great a multitude of holy ones are assembled together!
Slazem se brate
How can Mary give birth to God? Lol. That’s ridiculous and impossible.
Did God not exist prior to Mary? Of course the answer is yes.
Mary is mother of Christ.
@@mole215 sorry but you can’t give birth to something thats already alive
@@sagesarabia5053 Mary gave birth to Jesus’s body
@@Mariszom yes
@@mole215 that’s way too complicated.
Stop trying to force it.
God created the earth and humanity right?
Jesus is God which means he existed before Mary was born.
Mary gave birth to God? That’s impossible. If anything, God actually gave birth to Mary.
Approach it with an open mind and without your ego trying to run the argument.
Nestorious was excommunicated for this during the 3rd ecumenical council. Cyril of Egypt and Nestorious had a personal beef.
Prior to the council Nestorious was on his way but had some difficulty while traveling. He was prepared to defend his position at the council that Mary is the mother of Christ. They waited And waited… days went by and Nestorious still didn’t show up.
Cyril of Egypt pushed to start the council without Nestorious. Cyril spoke his position and pretty much threw Nestorious under the bus. Since nobody from Nestorious side to defend the position, the council, after being urged by Cyril, excommunicated Nestorious labeling him a heretic. The viewpoint that Mary is the mother of Christ was officially outlawed by the Orthodox Church.
Nestorious finally arrived a week or two later but it was too late. He was anathama’d and labeled a heretic.
The Assyrian church of the east, knowing the truth decided not to turn their back on Nestorious, like the rest of the council. Because of this, the Assyrian church is known by many as the “Nestorian Church”
To this day The Assyrian church still refers to Mary as the mother of Christ. The church also does not recognize the book of revelation.
In 1994, the Assyrian church of the east under the great patriarch Mar Dinkha mey with the Roman Catholic Church under Pope john paul II. The Roman Catholic Church capitulated and rescinded their order of excommunication of the Assyrian church. (You can look up the agreement)
This meeting was done quietly but it was a HUGE statement. It took almost 2000 years for the Roman Catholic Church to finally say.. you were right. Mary is the mother of Christ.
@@sagesarabia5053 Mary gave birth to his body and yes Jesus is God I do-not think of her as Gods mom
The ACoE isn't in communion with RC, EO, or OO. Does it claim to be the One True Church, while the others aren't in the same sense? Also, does the following statement contain Christological heresy?
“He [God the Word] granted to him [Jesus] that he [Jesus] should be worshipped with himself [God the Word] indistinguishably, with a single act of worship for the Man who became Lord and for the Divinity equally...For we believe that all that applies to the Man is raised up to the Word who accepts it for himself, having willed to make him [Jesus] share with this honor.”
It is in communion with RC. The Church of the East is open to all baptized Christians. I’m not sure on their stance on them being the True Church. The most I have heard from them is that they are the oldest church (which is technically true).
@@jamesr.g.2320 No they aren't. Chaldeans left ACOE and became Chaldean Catholics. ACOE doesn't accept the Holy Council of Ephesus, nor other RC councils after Chalcedon.
@@jamesr.g.2320 "Update your info before spewing BS" - before your edit. No, you don't know what you're talking about.
@@jamesr.g.2320 no it's not in communiion by simply accepting people from all denomination doesn't make it in "communion" in "communion" means who share the same faith. Who are in accordance to the same "Creed" which is in accordance with the 3 major councils namely nicea Constantinople and Ephesus.
@thomas : Yes they don't have any communion with the Oriental orthdox also. These heretics were once a minor part In our church long before our church re-established the apostolic succession with the help of the syriac orthrodox church( Antioch). Our church is the Indian orthodox church founded by the apsotle St Thomas around AD52 . After long periods of time it almost vanished the true faith but apostolic succession was regained from the orthodox catholicate of the east ( maphriyaite) and later in 1912 this was shifted from the selucia cestiphone to Kerala by thrice blessed H.H ignatios abdel missiha II the patriarch of the universal syirac orthodox church(Antioch) we are in communion with them till date. But there is still a faction in north kerala (kunnamkulam) who is a sort of archdiocese of the asyrian church of the east.. actually they follow the nestorian faith and are in communion with this church of the east .
Bless be the Nestorius true christian that Approved by God
He was a heretic
@@Cryptinox in their eyes everyone else is heretic. Pray for unity among the Assyrian Church, Orthodox, and oriental orthodox.
@@MatthewZmusician209
You dont pray for catholics ???
I'm a Filipino Roman Catholic, how could I become part of the Assyrian Church of the East?
I would suggest that you find if there are Assyrian Church of the East in your country. If there are churches there contact the priest ( Qasha) at the church to see what steps you would have to go through to become a member. And please let us know how your search went and what you find out .
Find any local assyrian church near you and ask the priest.
I think we are already United because both churches are Catholic.
@@allpoints-tv so is the church of the east United to the pope in Rome?
@@user-si8vd4ek9v No, the Assyrian Church is not in union with Rome. I will ask Qasha Ameer Brikha for clarification though so I won’t be giving out incorrect information and I will try to post it as soon as I can. Thank you for your question
I respectfully disagree. It's not that Nestorius used the term Mother of Christ. It's that he dissuaded believers from using the term Mother of God (i.e. told them not to say it). If there's no difference then why did Nestorius say anything about it at all? I would also like to note that Nestorius was the Archbishop of Constantinople at the time. St Cyril was the Archbishop of Alexandria. St Cyril went to Rome for guidance. Another early example in Church history of the preeminence given to the Catholic Church.
From what I have read though , the Assyrian Church really had not embraced the teachings of Nestor . According to what I read the Assyrian church was in existence before Nestor was born so he wasn’t a creator of the their theological viewpoints . As to the Church of Rome being preeminent or not is a debate that will never end in my opinion .
@@allpoints-tv The priest sounded like he was making excuses for Nestorius and minimizing the statement he made. He should've just said what you did and explained why the churches that supported Nestorius did so. Seems like those churches went through a lot of trouble by leaving the council with Nestorius if they didn't actually agree with what he said. Hard to believe you would do that over a non-issue in violation of Christ's prayer for unity in the Gospel of John.
I think the leaders of the Assyrian church were reluctant to condemn Nestor so that reluctance was seen as support . I’m not a theologian by any means but from what I read that is what conclusions I came to . The Church of Rome , from what I have read , doesn’t call the Virgin Mary “ Theotokos” either , all though they do maintain she was a Virgin . The term “
Theotokos “ is hard to wrap my mind around , “ the bearer of God “ . Jesus was God , the Son of God and also born of a Virgin human woman . It’s very easy to slip into what some would see as a “ heresy “ . But I was told long ago , theology is essentially hair splitting .
@@allpoints-tv I'm not a theologian either and understand what you're saying. It's just very disappointing to see. They're very smart and had to know the implication would be they supported Nestorius. They still seem reluctant to condemn him to this day. This theological topic wasn't considered hairsplitting at the time or a council would not have been called, but again I understand your point (filioque may be another example). All of these splittings of the Church reflect negatively on Christ and result in the loss of souls, which is what frustrates me the most. No one seems to care enough (on all sides) about His prayer in the Gospel of John to re-unite and yet they all claim to follow Him. If they don't believe this is a big deal then they need to get back to the table and attempt to unify the Church for the sake of the world. The problem is pride and temporal power (again on all sides). I also think this conversation drove Monophysites in the opposite direction in their response. Just sad.
The Christians ( all the bodies and rites and denominations and the constant splintering and faction creation) certainly have given the world (and the critics within ) plenty of targets to aim at when it comes to showing how we aren’t “ Christian “ like in our conduct .
4:30 this guy who is dressed as some priest is just an absolute heteric! St Mary is the mother of God. When Elizabeth saw at Mary we see in the visitation story she addressed St Mary as the mother of God...
I am amazed that there are some who are entirely in doubt as to whether the holy Virgin should be called Theotokos or not. For if our Lord Jesus Christ is God, how is the holy Virgin who gave Him birth, not Theotokos ?
- Saint Cyril of Alexandria.
You do right in using the word *If*.
I think what happens is that some people realize the fear of believing something wrong, because they start to see how much wrong is being done in their religion or group. It is an awakening. So in an attempt to avoid mistakes they start to take the bible more literally and listen less to other people.
In regard to your comment then it would be this: In multiple situations Jesus said he was *son of Man*, and when referring to God he said *my Father in heaven*. And God said, *this is my Son*. Perhaps the only verse that people use to say that Jesus is God is John 14:9, "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father". However, in the context Jesus is speaking that everything he says and everything he does is in agreement with God.
If you believe Jesus is God, the only God who became flesh, then you are facing many difficult verses that you need to explain, which will result in that you must make more assumptions. If you believe Jesus is the Son of the living God, then Jesus might say this to you, Matthew 16:17 "And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. "
Spot the Jacobite^
@@hammurabi8246 Please go and understand the complete context of those verse. Lord Jesus told it didn't come from "flesh or blood" means Jesus meant it Didint come from any "humans" but that knowledge that you know that I am God is from God the father. Again Our Lord said to bar Kepha ( St Peter ) on you I shall bulid my church is what Jesus said after St Peter told to Jesus that he is God and in reply Jesus said it is truly my father that has revealed it to you. Why u want to stress that simply when Jesus said that flesh and blood don't reveal this so u conclude that Jesus is implying that he has two forms seperated my dear Jesus is God and he took flesh and blood in the womb of St Mary the mother of God. The God who was unseen to his creation is now revealed and he is visible to his creation.. I'm not just citing some verses it is the truth and of course for us jacobites as u call us we don't consider the Bible as the foundation of the Christian faith it is the Faith in the God that revealed himself to us it is he who gave us his body and his blood as the food of the soul so we don't perish and it is the holy traditions and the faith that was handed over to the holy apostles by Lord Jesus whom inturn passed it over to the church fathers and through them to the present church. Orthodoxy is what Christ taught it is what the apostles preached and it is definately what the holy fathers kept.
@@lijukunchandynellimootilho5037 I am quoting you now " St Peter told to Jesus that he is God". This is false. In my first reply to you I quoted the Bible verse, so I guess you did not read my first reply to you.
@@hammurabi8246 you clearly deny Lord Jesus is God. But Jesus Christ is to us One and the same Son, the Self-same Perfect in Godhead, the Self-same Perfect in Manhood; truly God and truly Man; the Self-same of a rational soul and body; co-essential with the Father according to the Godhead, the Self-same co-essential with us according to the Manhood; like us in all things, sin apart; before the ages begotten of the Father as to the Godhead, but in the last days, the Self-same, for us and for our salvation (born) of the ever virgin St Mary the theotokos as to the Manhood; One and the Same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten; acknowledged in Two Natures unconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably; the difference of the Natures being in no way removed because of the Union, but rather the properties of each Nature being preserved, and (both) concurring into One Person and One Hypostasis; not as though He was parted or divided into Two Persons, but One and the Self-same Son and Only-begotten God, Word, Lord, Jesus Christ; even as from the beginning the prophets have taught concerning Him, and as the Lord Jesus Christ Himself hath taught us, and as the Symbol of the Fathers hath handed down to us.
Yes all Iraqi Christians are Arab nestorians who spoke Aramaic.
Not True, the Assyrians are not Arabs neither other Christian communities in Iraq. Assyrians don’t even look like Arabs. Go educate yourself Indian boy. And Aramaic has been spoken by the Assyrians since the establishment of the neo Assyrian Empire.
@@Marsel-ov6yg3im5c Not true. Iraqi Christians are Nestorians who speak the language of Aramaic. They're Arameans who used to live in the desert of Arabia and moved to Mesopotamia. After the fall of the Neo Assyrian empire, the Arameans created their own state and the official language of Iraq was Aramean prior to the Islamic rule of Iraq during Khalid ibn Al Waleed. Then the official language was switched to Arabic and most of the Nestorians mingled with the Muslims and adapted a new way of life. Whereas the Nestorians who lived in mountainous areas maintained their Christian beliefs and Aramean language. 😄 We're not Assyrians or Babylonians or Sumerians or Akkadians. We are Arameans/Nestorians. If you think you're Assyrian then go read an ancient Assyrian tablet in museums for me or speak ancient Assyrian. 😂 This Assyrian thing was created by the Church because of the conflict that was going on in Europe at the time between the eastern Orthodox church, Protestantism, catholicism, etc, etc. It's sad that you have no knowledge of our history.
@@johnlemma401 You don’t even look Assyrian, you look Indian. Second, when a group of people identify themselves as an ethnic group then they’re and historically the Neo-Assyrian Empire adopted Aramaic as the language. And third you can’t be Assyrian you can be Arab but you can’t force your disgusting opinion on other Assyrians. Third, the existing of modern Assyrians is proved in the Holy Bible and various sources. Does that make sense Mr.Lamma
@@Marsel-ov6yg3im5c There's no "Assyrian" look 😂 I'm Aramean and you're Aramean as well. You're not Assyrian. learn history.
Don't all humans have two nature's, the flesh and the spirit? We have our own spirit. Jesus had the Word for His Spirit. The Bible straight up says God is Spirit and God is not a man, and a Spirit does not have flesh and bone.
@Anthony James - Jesus' body never went to hell. His spirit did. Jesus said a spirit does not have flesh and bone. I agree that you can not be a human without a spirit, but you can be a spirit without a body.
@Phil Andrew This is the problem with applying esoteric Greek philosophical terms as dogmatic to metaphysics. Quite simply, WE DON'T KNOW what a soul/spirit/human nature really are. Why are we burdening people with these extra beliefs using words and concepts foreign to the New Testament and its writers?
This is where the idea of a trinity and Jesus being GOD leads
Such nonsense
Where does it lead
If you are not informed enough
Jesu promised to Apostles that Holy Spirit will lead them in all truth
Church gatherd at councils and they decided things
You can see the example in Acts 15 the first council
And the fact is that Jesus is God that is not an idea but fact
The Divine Person Logos became flesh took human nature fully Divine fully man one person two natures one eternal one created
If you are muslim we can talk about how quran doesnt teach perfect unitarianism but quran teaches nonsense because al lah is obviously not god and quran was written by man not by God
Quran alone says that al lah abrogates verses and replace them with the same verse or with better which means that al lah in eternity made mistakes or his words were not perfect but he had to correct what he already wrote
And why would he reveal the verse which are wrong why cant he reveal only the verses which are right
Why he reveales the verses which he already in eternity has corrected
@@masto2898 lots of chaotic babbling
Rejected
Take care
@@nomadicrecovery1586 why
Still it is a heretic church, not just the theotokos dogma, its much more than that, the church of the east just like Nestor teaches that Jesus is 2 persons 1 human and 1 Divine which is a heresy, Jesus is 1 person in 2 natures , also the church of the east believes that the Divine nature was with jesus just 3 years the day he got baptized up until he died on the Cross the Divine nature left him cuz God Can't die.
What are you talking about 🤣
1. The book bazaar of Heracleides shows Nestorius proclaiming Christ is 1 person, with 2 natures.
2. We the Assyrian church believe in the orthodox belief of Christ being eternally divine.
3. We do not believe the divine nature left him before death. Seriously how do you think we even define death? We believe death is defined as the destruction of flesh and soul. Dying as a human doesn’t equal our definition of death. So that part doesn’t even make sense because why would we make such a belief you’re accusing us of, if we believe death doesn’t mean “cease to exist”. Seriously, just pick up the bazaar of Heracleides, and you’ll see.
Where did you even get the second part? From your orthodox friends?
There are so many errors to this video. No one can make these arguments with a straight face and be intellectually honest
List a few of those errors .
@@allpoints-tv first of all, the priest mentions how Theotokos isn’t in the scriptures. That doesn’t matter because that is like saying trinity isn’t in the Bible so we must reject the trinity. We actually fathers like St athanasius use theotokos. Second he mentions how we don’t have nestorius’ writings, we actually have his 12 counter-anathemas against Cyril. They’re all nestorian and rejecting the hypostatic union. Finally, he talks about how the churches were envious of nestorius, actually he preached heresy and was condemned for it. That’s why after St Cyril and John of Antioch has their formula of reunion after they heard each other and Antioch stop supporting nestorius
@Anthony James when did I reject that? I actually criticised this video
@Anthony James oh then yes thank you for the response to this. Even if it isn’t, who cares? The term trinity isn’t in the Bible, so might as well say trinity isn’t biblical, which is retarded
@@darklord7069
You say that the term 'Trinity' is not in the Bible. It comes awfully close to making it, though. See 2nd Corinthians 13:14. Also Jesus spends a lot of time talking about the relationships within the triune Godhead (John chapters 14-17).
On the other hand, the term 'Theotokos' is a first step along the road to Mariolatry, which the New Testament does not support:
1. Mary herself is not mentioned in the historical record after Acts 1:14.
In that instance she is called 'Mary mother of Jesus.'
2. (1st Timothy 2:5) 'For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.'
So much for Mary being a 'mediatrix' (female mediator). Prayers to Mary are not appropriate.
Because nestorias was condemned so was the Assyrians LOl
We are not Assyrian . We are Christian Kurd 👍
We're not Kurdish. Kurdish people are Muslim. We are Assyrian Christians, descendants of the Ancient Assyrian empire. Be quiet.
@@ninetiesmoda You are Syriac. You cannot speak for us Nestorians. We Nestorians, Christian Kurds. You cannot deceive us by doing empty Assyrian nationalism. You are also very ignorant. There are Kurds of all religions. Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Yezidi, Kakei (Yarsan, Ahli haqq), Alevi, Zoroastrian ... and also Deist, Atheist, Agnostic ... Kurds have it. The Muslim Kurdish population is at most 55%. Also, Islam was spread by Arabs. Your and the Arabs are Semitic. So Islam is not the property of the Kurds 😃😃😃
@@deepspacefighter2706 Go away loser. You're a Kurdish nationalist that likes making false claims. We're Assyrians, whether you like it or not!!
@@deepspacefighter2706 what nonsense are you talking about, your whole statement does not make sense, first of all Syriac is the modern Aramic language that Assyrians speak. Second of all kurds are Muslims and not Christians and Assyrians are definitely not Kurds and all Assyrians are Christian btw, and if you knew anything about the lands that the Kurds have stolen, you would also know that they are Assyian lands and everytime you dig you will find their antiquity, if you want to educate yourself about Assyrians check them out in every history book, or better yet google Mesopotamia and Assyria for that matter and thirdly the word "semitic" stands for a dialogic of languages and those include Aramic (ie modern Assyrian-Syriac), Hebrew, Arabic and some others. While the Assyrians have been around since 3500 BC (which stands for Before Christ btw), and became Christians 2020-years ago. Islam has only been around since the the mid 7th century CE ( thats is around 650 Common Era) and it was the Christians of the middle east that educated the Arab world about science, philosophy, mathematics, languages, and etc because they did not know how to translate those theoretical writings of Greek and other languages to Arabic. So there were Assyrians-Christians-Aramic(Syriac) speaking people in the middle east, specifically in Mesopotamia, way before any Kurds-Muslim-Arabic speaking people. And the Kurds are gypsies that came from the north, specifically Iran (gypsies because they have never had a land of their own and just want to take pieces from the surrounding coutires, for example from Iraq (modern day Assyrian lands), Turkey and Syrian. Its sad really, either you don't know your own Islamic history or you want to remain ignorant.
@@deepspacefighter2706 what Assyrian would consider themselves Kurds, its actually a discrace to all those Assyrians that were slaughter by the government of Iraq and the Kurds in Simele. Its actually hard to comprehend how you can disregard generations of beautiful history for a people that have no basis to their claim and who are never going to be accepted as a nation because the international community knows that those lands are not theirs. Sad really if you are an uneducated individual who doesn't know left from right and are ignorant of what Assyrian identity and pride is.
(cough) *heresy* (cough)
Clever but hardly stating a eloquent case as to why it’s a heresy . Care to elaborate ?
@@allpoints-tv
He won't dare, because he doesn't know anything about it but only follows (without any true understanding) what his "church" says/teaches to him.
Benny Hutabarat you seem very angry , why are you so angry ? Are you a former member of the church that feels that you were misled by it’s theology ?
@@allpoints-tv
I am not angry... I just want to tell that many people think they know the "truth" only because they were taught so without any searching for the Truth Himself.
Mother of God (heresy) God is eternal.