$100,000 Church Sound Upgrade: Meyer LINA PA and Primacoustic Panels
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 16 июн 2024
- Apply to Join Worship Ministry School:
churchfront.me/apply
Free Worship and Production Toolkit:
churchfront.me/toolkit
Shop Our Online Courses:
churchfront.me/courses
Join us at the Churchfront Live Conference:
churchfront.me/conference
Beginner Church Sound Course:
churchfront.me/church-sound
Follow Churchfront on Instagram or TikTok: @churchfront
Follow on Twitter: @realchurchfront
Gear we use to make videos at Churchfront:
kit.co/churchfront/youtube-setup
• • • • •
Disclaimer: This video and description contain affiliate links.
Aaron here from South Fellowship Church. I wanted to mention a few things as a follow-up to this video. I agree with everything Jake said, but there are a few hidden variables that we have been learning since the system has been in there for a few weeks. First, the limitation for quality is no longer the room or the PA; it is the band and the audio engineer. Muddy bad sound reflection covers a lot of mistakes. Now, if the band messes up, everyone can hear it. If the mix is not balanced well, it is even more pronounced. This is NOT bad; it just means the team needs to raise the bar again on our precision. Second, we have had to do some extra training on how to use reverb from the console. The old setup had lots of room reflection. We must be more accurate with our reverb effects and the sustain time of it. If we mix it too wet or the sustain is too long for the song's tempo, people can perceive that the reverb is not natural but has an added effect (it is distracting). Finally, the system is very directional now. Without the room reflections, the sound only comes from the PA rather than the PA and the walls. That is a good thing, but I have had a few (maybe 2) people mention that they only hear something in one ear. When I ask them how they are standing, I notice they are facing only the side of their head toward the PA. They didn't seem upset about it, but it was a different feeling than before. Most people are used to rooms with reflective noise.
After a few weeks, I'm thrilled with the system, and we are mixing fuller sounds at a lower decibel than before. We can hear the band and the congregation singing better because of that. I wouldn't recommend you make a change like this with a promise of that outcome, but it is a bonus to quality. Quality sounds full at lower volumes.
So, now you need an audio team trip to MxU HQ for next level mixing! :)
@@henryvanweeren7233 or ChurchFronts courses ;)
This is INCREDIBLE insight. I think panels are great but they shouldn't be setup like a studio. And yeah the band is always to blame even when there's no panels or old speakers haha. I think we underestimate the human ear and peoples respect towards us. They don't want to say anything because they fear God but some people will tell you what's what any day of the year. Band members need to know their songs or don't play that song because it's not a blessing to distract anyone
I know each install will be different, but if you could say, what is the "Ball Park" figure for this type of install (retail)?
Lets pray for a good engineer
I'm a Meyer Sound integrator. The beauty is you have a system that has been tuned and your room has been treated so now you do not have to defensively mix but you can mix to tone instead. That's what we have preached for years and years and years. If you get your PA right and your room right then your job as a mix engineer becomes so much easier
Congrats on the new system, "sounds" like it will serve the church well for many years.
❤
Thanks dad
@@Churchfront Dad ????
We had octane install subs, sound panels and a Galaxy 816 back in 2022, and I can confirm they are both incredible people and highly professional. Greg was a pleasure to work with, and Chris was kind enough to let me watch his process as he dialed in our PA. Our room has never sounded better.
being able to trust and use the main mix for broadcst is golden!
Congrats on the new sound rig. I just became a tech at a church with the Meyer Lina system, and it is amazing.
So cool that your physical sound system can impact your broadcast audio too! It's all connected!
Wow - Meyer is NICE - I love it, and I would love to hear it play. Thank you for the walk through.
We have RCF 5 or 6 speaker arrays hanging from the ceiling, along with 10 stage speakers. There are also two subs under the stage. This set up handles some serious output. Such an improvement in quality over our older system.
Can’t ever beat Meyer…the absolute best
I'm not even a sound guy. But this is incredible, more life and god bless for a quality sound system.
Super pumped for you guys! Excited to hear it next time I'm in town
I loved your Explanation about room treatment & stage treatment to achieve great sound for the listener.
The band to me sounded Good I like the clarity of the sound
WOW! That's an amazing system.
This video may provide your most accurate example that explains the difference between good/ok sound versus really good sound. (1) When possible hire a credible company to help you. (2) Acoustic treatment is a must (3) PA that fits the space. I have installed MEYER in countries around the world. As a designer and integrator, MEYER is always my first recommendation. PA plus good acoustics = best possible worship experience
Cool to see! Im excited about our church finally making the jump from the “normal average sound bouncing everywhere but it’s a full sound” experience to something pristine. Our room is a bit different, wider than longer, so rather than line array we are using D&B audiotechnik’s V/Y series point source. It has a super wide dispersion range without the super super long throw distance. Im more than excited to see how it transforms everything. We’ll definitely cover the back wall with sound pannels, but I’m thinking about keeping the side walls a bit more open for SOME reflections. We’ll see, could always add more in the future 👌🏼
Awesome stuff!
Loved the video intro. So epic
Great looking videography. Great job Dylan
You told it. One of the keys of a good PA system is the intelligibility and clarity of the sound. I've worked with PA Meyer Sound systems, it's the best for me. Unfortunately, not all churches can't afford it.
Appreciate your videos
thank you
Blessings
Meyer's support is top notch and I wish more churches would think of them for both line array and point source options.
That last church I worked at had a Meyer system. It was great and I could actually use the house mix for the online mix because the system was accurate.
And I wish more congregations would remember the eternal soul, instead of the weekly concert. So sad. I believe The Devil LOVES the direction contemporary churches are going. Total social bubble. Party on, disciples!
@@clayandannasteinwinter8747 I'm with you about weekly concerts. That's not healthy, but spending money does not mean it's a weekly concert. We're still not close to the amount of money David and Solomon spent.
18:55 couldn’t agree more! When I moved to a real PA (Kara / PM10) my chain got way simpler. I ditched waves
Hey Guys,
I learned a lot from your video and I fully appreciate your skill and commitment to the task. This stuff is changing so fast; it's crazy! Here's my question: what do you do when an
a capella choir comes in for a concert, or you need to set up for children's bell choir where the reverb and nuance of the sound is critical to the beauty of the concert? My college choir sang on tour, an a capella group, and I remember one where the sanctuary was absolutely 'dead'; it was horrible! It was difficult for one section of the choir to hear another, so achieving a balance among the choir, not the room, was difficult; we hated it.
I just wonder how you build a bridge to both worlds; thanks!
That's amazing. Wish my church could grow to the point where there's money to spend on extravagant systems.
Great video!
That must of been a good sized gift if you've invested $100,000 into speakers and panels! Personally I wouldn't spend that sort of money on a 500 seat hall, but each to their own. My only question, why have a $100,000 speaker system running from a $4000 console? Surely your budget could have squeezed in something a little bit higher teir, like an Avantis?
Came here to say exactly this about the console, need some better preamps feeding those arrays
i want one of transformation church
I would argue that the Wing is just as, if not more, capable of keeping up with the Avantis. With the Wing having flexi channels and busses, you have about a third more I/O available to you, expanding your options when it comes to processing. Along with being able to use Midas Pres (which I’m assuming that they are), the sound quality is, imho, in the same ballpark.
A&H certainly has done a great job with the feature set of the Avantis, but at almost TRIPLE the price of the Wing, it’s really a no brained.
Now the Digico S31 on the other hand…😉
Atleast an SQ7 but an Avantis would be excellent
The speakers (great system) are hanging, and that's one big tick off the list of sound needs... the console can easily be picked up and replaced. (Ye, If I was mixing there, I wld soon)
Nice to have a great sound engineer, but if you have a nice engineer and nice sound system, that's definitely a huge blessing for the church.
Well done...
Meyer sound is awesome
Very nice!!!
Meyer sound With acoustic treatment yep! The best investment you can make.
Really awesome 😎
Thanks for the case study. It's really great to see what others are doing. My church has a Yamaha TF3. I noted you guys pulled out a TF5 a in this case. What is the advantage of replacing one digital console with another?
I prefer a M7 or PM5D. My church have a M7 and it's very, very good!
Did you have to delay the crowd mics any to match the FOH feed?
Jake what did you do with the K12s please? I need 4
I have to mix in a concrete box. Powers at be wont treat the room. Im at the point where I cant do anything else. Is there anyway I can see the part of your proposal about the treatment. We are running a reflection test this week to see how long they are.
It's Linear System, what comes in,is what goes out.
I'm actually impressed it's only $100,000 upgrade.....
Interesting stuff! If you have issues with digital drums you are either sub mixing them wrong or listening with your eyes. I'd hate to go back to all the random problems (tuning, mic repositioning, using lightning rods, stage noise bleeding through in-ears, and limited sounds of acoustic drums. Mount the pads in acoustic shells like a lot of churches do with a gutted acoustic piano and stuffing a nord in it to fix the listening with eyes issue.
We’re currently considering to buy a Roland VAD507 kit for our church. Which edrums module are you using?
@@germanboza Yamaha at church and also my own set at home.
Any newer Roland or Yamaha should be fantastic. My personal preference is Yamaha since they use actual sampled drum sounds but I don't think the Rolands sound bad - just different and I'd be happy to play those too.
Some other digital drums sound great but don't have the durability of the Roland/Yamaha equipment.
Curious that they did all primeacoustic panels. Great margin on those guys, but at 2” deep you’re not doing much for low frequency control.
meyer vs L-acoustics
who yall pickin?
No D&B??
Ha de ser bonito tener un buen sonido 😍
Which lav mic were you using?
Heck yeah!! Octane AVL is the best!! 🖤
Greely on the screen! 🤣👌🏼
Serious question (Not a criticism I really want to know): Why go with Meyer over L-Acoustics? Is it a price thing? Or is there not that much difference and L-Acoustics is overhyped? I'm curious.
One of the questions I have is this: I hear integrators say things like “we have no more than 3db drop off”… don’t people want it to be quieter down the back to give people options if they don’t like it loud? Genuine question.
No
There are valid situations where people would not want it as loud. The challenge is not with music, but with speaking. It may be good to have a spot that's 10dB quieter for those that don't want the music as loud, but when someone is speaking from stage the spots that are 10dB quieter will not be able to understand what's being said. However, 3dB is probably too tight. The spec for point source speaker coverage is a 6dB drop off, so I've always gone by that for defining coverage for a speaker system.
Hey bro!! So i work over at Calvary South OC! And I was wondering if you’d like to come down and check out our church an system and see if you’d want to do a video on it?
Phenomenal!!!
What Db level are you running at??
PA has to go where PA has to go. BOOM!!
So, did the pa and the acoustic treatment cost $100k
Great speakers, subpar mixing console.
So, in looking at where the PA is hung, how does it sound when you're up front and in the middle? It seems to me, especially for speaking, you see the source in front of you but you hear it from the sides. I tend to call that headphone audio. Was there a reason they didn't put a box or two in the middle, aimed towards the first couple of rows to anchor the sound towards the stage for those prime seats? I've done that with a number of systems with great results. And congrats on the new PA. Nice to remove one more distraction so people can more easily have encounter with God.
We've got a 600 seat sanctuary that is about two times as wide as deep. Probably a more extreme ratio than at South Fellowship. So there's almost a 160 degree horizontal dispersion required (the stage isn't all that wide as the seating area)
Our speaker system design choice is the following:
- A separation of band (worship, any stereo source) and dialogue microphones from the console into the system processor where in the matrix various point source arrays are fed
- two powerful main point source arrays on the left/right side of the stage including the low frequency elements
- one full range center cluster that covers the whole venue (not just a front/down fill)
- The stereo content is obviously fed to the l/r mains but also to the center cluster to help overcome the (too) wide stereo width in that the left speaker of the cluster receives right stereo information and vice versa
- the (mono) dialogue is sent to the center cluster to the advantage of not having destructive interactions of multiple spatially displaced speakers reproducing the same signal. And of course the coherent aural and visual localisation of the pastor
A couple years ago we added a pair of near field monitors to FOH which proved to be a very good solution. I regret not to have had this idea way before. This enables to have relaxed mixing sessions (with multitrax) for high broadcast requirements. Since the PA and near fields operate at the same highest characteristics (all Meyer) and are well tuned, translation from near fields to the PA and finally to broadcast works well. This makes the need for a separate costly mixing suite and an additional capable volunteer mix engineer obsolete.
Speaking of headphone audio, at FOH we have a SPL Phonitor One headphone amplifier which emulates speaker cross feed for realistic monitoring with phones.
The install is from way back in the mid '90s long before streaming, digital consoles and waves plugins. The experience shows that doing the basic stuff right (acoustics, capable/well designed speaker system, professionalism) is crucial for satisfying results, saves on problem solving, longterm reliable operation and accommodates even for future requirements, Thus it's also ECONOMIC !
From the beginning the goal and mindset was to learn from the top productions such as the large churches or the renowned Montreux Jazz Festival and adapt it to the possibilities of a mid sized church.
Meyer Line Array with an Behringer Console?🤔
Cool 😎
Why a line array for such a low ceiling?
Hi folks, how do you guys finance something like this? I'm genuinely curious on how it happens from the business perspective?
You tell people if they don't tithe they go to hell. and then you beg, plead and use the prosperity gospel to tell them to plant a 1,000 seed so Jesus can give you 1000% return. Basically you use Jesus as your fundraising tool. and they don't give the homeless guy outside a dime because as you know he'll never come to their church and tithe. Seen it 100 times over in my life so far.
He said it was a gift remember
@@Michael-le5phhey buddy, sounds like you’re in need. Anything we can do to help?
My home church could benefit from something like this so much, (on a smaller scale) but the pastor just doesn’t want to see the value.
You guys should listen to TW Audio Ella cardioid line array element with S32 Caridioid subs...and give your feedback
Yeah, I'm also interested in the Ella :) Looks so cool, made in Germany, and I'm sure it sounds great, too!
The more money a church spends on audio/visual gear and not people in need, the clearer and better God’s message is, apparently…
Megachurchy for sure
@@8CountAudio you rather the megachurch pastors spend it all on themselves?
@@__Nata_ I’m being sarcastic mate
@@nathanielbrice8725 some people take it seriously and get upset when big churches have expensive gear
@@__Nata_those churches need to learn how to come together with innovative ideas to build there finances so they can afford to buy expensive equipment instead of being jealous of another church who work hard to buy what they can afford.
Meyer + Wing? come on!!
Matthew 19:21
Luke 18:22
Mark 10:21
Great speakers baffled as to why ya’ll still mixing on a behringer wing
Do you fell that using the Behringer WING is one of the tech things that is limiting you now ?
Wing is more capable then the avantise in my experience and those cost near 4x's as much plus they are already in the behringer eco system using p16 mixers for in ears and stage boxes. For them to upgrade the console they would have to upgrade those as well and I could see that costing $30k easy to have a system set up that is equally capable
Parish drum set.
Jesus sure likes to sound good...
Well he did. Why do you think they chose the location for his sermon on the mount. Because it was a natural amphitheater.
So basically 90% of your Quality Issue was "Acoustics".
Sounds like the church business is boomin'!
They have been for centuries, but especially after colonization began
Not to be a downer but it looks like you dumped 100k and the room is barely half full
100k in speakers and yall still use a behringer desk
Imagine if Jesus Christ comes today and visit that church and hear the upgraded sound…He would think that today human also are performing miracles!
Spend that money to help the poor people…. Please!
Homes for houseless people ❌
$100,000 for a speaker system ✅
"But we give a small fraction of our wealth to hand out mostly processed food to poor people so it's justified"
Yikes. 100k for a strip mall church. Seems like a temporary location. Whatever works.
What is with all the haters and whiners?
Why not spend $50,000 on “speakers” and buy $50,000 in food for the insecure?
Better yet, stop copying Hillsong, which is in big trouble, bethel and elevation. It is now only a good church if it's awesomely cool. cool lights, cool sound, cool skinny jeans and spiked hair and big pad sounds. It's all cool. I wonder if the community knows this church exists outside their members.?
Solomon covered the inside of the temple with pure gold, and he extended gold chains across the front of the inner sanctuary, which was overlaid with gold. 1 Kings 6:21
@@unfinishedworship3173Solomon also had 700 wives, princesses and 300 concubines…
Most expensive in the world speakers.
The cuts in the video are just driving me mad... it'slikeyoujustremoveallthespacesbetweenthewords. It doesn't flow. It just sounds "hyper" like you're worried that a listener will lose interest between 2 words? IDK It's not necessary in a 23min video.
One more thing, you should throw away that Behringer piece of shit wing in the trash an get a nice professional quality mixer.
Lol😂
Great sound isn't going to lead more to Christ. I'm a Christian and a worship leader at a mid-size church. We read from a physical Bible too!
Yeah, but you're not cool enough for the kingdom doing that. bet you get all old people in church. LOL-i'm joking. that is what this church would say though. you have to be excellent or God want nothing to do with you.
Seems they are bringing forward an Abel offering rather than a Cain offering. If someone is deeply committed to a ministry they will put their best foot forward and should be applauded.
Quite right, all this preaching to an invisible made-up god via an ultra-expensive audio system is complete and utter bollocks. More fool the weak-headed for parting with their hard-earned dosh in the frankly quite hopeless desire for salvation.
Somebody's gonna say, you should've spend those money by giving to homeless, poor and all , Ahhhhhh myan c'mon no more that stupid comment
Almost like they never read about all the gold in the Temple.
"It's a stupid comment to say that churches should actually help people in need. Poor people don't deserve rights." That is what you are saying. Disgusting.
Sickening. This shit has to stop. People "donate" money to help others. You play with it like there's nothing better you could do with than buy the MOST expensive shit you can find. Bloody shameful
why do you have to make such idiotic facial expressions in the preview pic.
It is apparently a RUclips requirement these days.
Love of money, God is not pleased with corporate church fleecing the public in His name. Repent sinners and separate yourselves from the world and it’s ways. Complete with ads.
Solomon covered the inside of the temple with pure gold, and he extended gold chains across the front of the inner sanctuary, which was overlaid with gold. 1 Kings 6:21
@@unfinishedworship3173 Vanity was Solomon’s undoing. David impregnated his friends wife and then tried to cover it up with a murder plot when his friend wouldn’t lay down with his own wife in preparation for battle. The house of Israel was divided after Solomon as well. It’s good to read in context.
What a waste of money, so many other good things to help people, am I going to church or a night club?
Solomon covered the inside of the temple with pure gold, and he extended gold chains across the front of the inner sanctuary, which was overlaid with gold. 1 Kings 6:21
Waste of money... sorry
Great video!