Audio engineering is a complex science that involves a lot of mathematics and logical problem solving. In real-world situations, it calls for compromise and best-case scenarios. This video presentation does a good job of introducing some of the challenges that audio engineers are faced with in sound system design. Great job!
I struggled for decades with these types of problems and compounded them with some of the quad shows we did . Taking the immersive sound live years ago was a challenge . Some of these shows worked out great , others not so much . Now retired I sit in my barn listening to Atmos 5.1.4 and again all mixes are not created equal . Thank you for all your work and information .
Great to have some live sound engineering discussion on your channel. Live is such a complicated environment and too often the learning opportunities are during high-stakes -- live shows. Much appreciated.
I love Lacoustics, always the best system to mix on, but it certainly is convenient that a speaker manufacturers answer to improving coverage over a typical L/R system is..... wait for it: Too buy a lot more speakers, 18 Kara configured L/R to cover a venue becomes 45 over 5 hangs. Also what is less clear is how you would maintain the L -isa coverage with a front fill.
Really interesting! Quite incredible how clear if becomes with the comb filtering problem when using the pink noise (seems like the room was also quite good, and not introducing disturbing reflections) - there are even some minor changes in sound as you walk around (reflections against your bodies - even though, that was still very small compare to the speaker issue it self). But, that typical behaviour as you walked past the middle with the microphones is really caracteristic on music as well and I have heard it so many times on different live performances, trying to find the best sound in the middle. This is also an issue when making good live recordings in stereo (which I have done) The optimum line in the middle is so narrow, that just the smallest movements with the microphones will cause the sound to get skewed (even movements so small they are barely noticable on the video - if filming along with the sound recording). The worst case is when accidently moving back and forth over the optimum line, so the sound "wobble" from side to side. With an audience around that moves and a some music that makes you want to move along with it, it's hard to keep the microphones steady in the middle, haha. That software seem really smart.
I just barely commented on an AVIXA video how I would love to see a Dolby surround schematic unique to each venue showing where each speaker is attacking and whether correlated or not. And with that I would love to see brakes put on AI with some kind of mandatory human input for the result.
Ok, so you can compound tricks and mostly solve the high-end. But what about the bottom end? e.g. for 30Hz one cycle is 33ms, to decorrelate it you have to move one signal by significant amount, and since the frequency is so low the comb also each affects more neighboring frequencies as well. For smaller setups e.g. a home, one sub speaker is an amazing solution, but I've no idea how you'd fix it in a multi-speaker setup Nice demo btw!
Human hearing (the way we perceive sound) is such that low frequencies lose their directional component. Conversely, the higher the frequency, the more we are able to discern the direction that the sound originated from. It's the same reason that we feel boomy bass frequencies in our chests (it sounds like it's everywhere), and high frequency cymbal crashes come from the right or left. It's no mistake that modern stereo systems have one sub-woofer (with both channels) and a right and left speaker. That type of arrangement (theoretically) maximizes the stereo effect that we hear. Audio engineering is a complex science that involves a lot of mathematics and in real-world situations, calls for compromise and best-case scenarios. This video presentation does a good job of introducing some of the challenges that audio engineers are faced with in sound system design.
The basic problem here is the premise, yes there will be comb filtering as you move through the venue, but that’s not what the audience is doing. The audience is sitting in a seat. A fixed position. What really matters is that every seat has direct audio. Iv done shows with thousands of speakers 🔊 under every seat in the venue. If you walk around you would hear comb filtering but sitting in your seat, the direct audio delivers clarity without energizing every molecule in the room. 😉
could you please share which venue has this system (or maybe the name of the system itself)? I would really like to know more about it. I doubt that here in south america we have something like that
Thousands of speakers? Wow! Ive thought about adding a dozen delay speakers to our church to help with speech intelligibly in a highly reverberant room. But thousands?!? What kind of amps and wiring would that require?
Since we can determine the angle of coverage of each array of speakers, why can't we just hang them at the center of the stage and hang other arrays next to each other in a curve configuration depending on the speaker's effective coverage to create a balance sound field, eliminating the phase issues. Would that make sense?😆😂. I am no expert, I don't even know what I'm talking about😂. Very informative video anyways.
@@jean-lucbattista2492 I guess most sound systems are using mono sound regardless if they have a left and right set up, coz we all know the problem of sending stereo to a wide area. I think you can only use stereo output if you can ensure that your audience is in the same position in both the left are right of your speaker array. So my point here is even those setups with left and right arrays are outputing mono sound
@@LostSoulsMed. perfect you've positioned your first sound object. now create a second one in a different position. And what if you want 64 sound objects? Do you create 64 mono stacks with perfect coverage? Or do you want the help of L-ISA to calculate a sound field from fewer sound sources , that will well represent that sound object position? Thats the goal !
6:10 (opposite of power alley) “we’ve got the power valley.”
This is such a good explanation!
Audio engineering is a complex science that involves a lot of mathematics and logical problem solving. In real-world situations, it calls for compromise and best-case scenarios. This video presentation does a good job of introducing some of the challenges that audio engineers are faced with in sound system design. Great job!
I struggled for decades with these types of problems and compounded them with some of the quad shows we did . Taking the immersive sound live years ago was a challenge . Some of these shows worked out great , others not so much . Now retired I sit in my barn listening to Atmos 5.1.4 and again all mixes are not created equal . Thank you for all your work and information .
Man I want quad and wanna record Hard Rock original rock music in quad..we have surround sound in every living room what's the holdup,????
Great to have some live sound engineering discussion on your channel. Live is such a complicated environment and too often the learning opportunities are during high-stakes -- live shows. Much appreciated.
This is crazy, I used to be a developer for this software! Didn't expect to see it here
How on earth does this work software wise?
Ran house of worship sound for many years (not real big houses!) and always new of this problem but never heard of these solutions!! Thanks so much!
L-ISA looks/sounds pretty cool, I'll be interesting in seeing more.
I love Lacoustics, always the best system to mix on, but it certainly is convenient that a speaker manufacturers answer to improving coverage over a typical L/R system is..... wait for it: Too buy a lot more speakers, 18 Kara configured L/R to cover a venue becomes 45 over 5 hangs.
Also what is less clear is how you would maintain the L -isa coverage with a front fill.
Very informative presentation.
Lovely! I love to watch engineering-level videos. Great one with decent information!
Was like what's your favourite band ? Well pink noise😅❤
TY got me thinking about double mics and stereo panning. Can’t wait to experiment.
Really interesting!
Quite incredible how clear if becomes with the comb filtering problem when using the pink noise (seems like the room was also quite good, and not introducing disturbing reflections)
- there are even some minor changes in sound as you walk around (reflections against your bodies - even though, that was still very small compare to the speaker issue it self).
But, that typical behaviour as you walked past the middle with the microphones is really caracteristic on music as well and I have heard it so many times on different live performances, trying to find the best sound in the middle. This is also an issue when making good live recordings in stereo (which I have done)
The optimum line in the middle is so narrow, that just the smallest movements with the microphones will cause the sound to get skewed (even movements so small they are barely noticable on the video - if filming along with the sound recording). The worst case is when accidently moving back and forth over the optimum line, so the sound "wobble" from side to side. With an audience around that moves and a some music that makes you want to move along with it, it's hard to keep the microphones steady in the middle, haha. That software seem really smart.
Thank you for piece and seeing you and Dave Rat together made my day
I just barely commented on an AVIXA video how I would love to see a Dolby surround schematic unique to each venue showing where each speaker is attacking and whether correlated or not. And with that I would love to see brakes put on AI with some kind of mandatory human input for the result.
I saw the title and i thought unless you're gonna get Dave rat you're never gonna be able to
And then the video started 😂
Spectacular explanation
Ok, so you can compound tricks and mostly solve the high-end. But what about the bottom end?
e.g. for 30Hz one cycle is 33ms, to decorrelate it you have to move one signal by significant amount, and since the frequency is so low the comb also each affects more neighboring frequencies as well.
For smaller setups e.g. a home, one sub speaker is an amazing solution, but I've no idea how you'd fix it in a multi-speaker setup
Nice demo btw!
Human hearing (the way we perceive sound) is such that low frequencies lose their directional component. Conversely, the higher the frequency, the more we are able to discern the direction that the sound originated from.
It's the same reason that we feel boomy bass frequencies in our chests (it sounds like it's everywhere), and high frequency cymbal crashes come from the right or left.
It's no mistake that modern stereo systems have one sub-woofer (with both channels) and a right and left speaker. That type of arrangement (theoretically) maximizes the stereo effect that we hear.
Audio engineering is a complex science that involves a lot of mathematics and in real-world situations, calls for compromise and best-case scenarios. This video presentation does a good job of introducing some of the challenges that audio engineers are faced with in sound system design.
Nooo, it's a reupload! I thought I was gonna get two videos in a single day from you! >:D
Amazing video! Thanks a lot, guys.
The basic problem here is the premise, yes there will be comb filtering as you move through the venue, but that’s not what the audience is doing.
The audience is sitting in a seat.
A fixed position.
What really matters is that every seat has direct audio. Iv done shows with thousands of speakers 🔊 under every seat in the venue. If you walk around you would hear comb filtering but sitting in your seat, the direct audio delivers clarity without energizing every molecule in the room. 😉
could you please share which venue has this system (or maybe the name of the system itself)? I would really like to know more about it. I doubt that here in south america we have something like that
Imagine going to a club and you have to sit
@@jensnln to be honest, that sounds more like a theater
Thousands of speakers? Wow! Ive thought about adding a dozen delay speakers to our church to help with speech intelligibly in a highly reverberant room. But thousands?!? What kind of amps and wiring would that require?
Whats the song playing in the outro? Its pretty awesome and I was wondering about a full version?
Wow
Jarring
Well we often called nodes and anti nodes ! 😅 In fact is not quite about frecventy is about how those energy fight each other in air!
All of its digitally focused
I wish I could afford LAcoustics gear!
Since we can determine the angle of coverage of each array of speakers, why can't we just hang them at the center of the stage and hang other arrays next to each other in a curve configuration depending on the speaker's effective coverage to create a balance sound field, eliminating the phase issues. Would that make sense?😆😂. I am no expert, I don't even know what I'm talking about😂. Very informative video anyways.
that's a mono setup, perfect for speech and maximum intelligibility.
@@jean-lucbattista2492 I guess most sound systems are using mono sound regardless if they have a left and right set up, coz we all know the problem of sending stereo to a wide area. I think you can only use stereo output if you can ensure that your audience is in the same position in both the left are right of your speaker array. So my point here is even those setups with left and right arrays are outputing mono sound
@@LostSoulsMed. perfect you've positioned your first sound object. now create a second one in a different position. And what if you want 64 sound objects? Do you create 64 mono stacks with perfect coverage? Or do you want the help of L-ISA to calculate a sound field from fewer sound sources , that will well represent that sound object position?
Thats the goal !
someone help with the song in the outro 13 min ?
Do you know the song in the end of the video?
Turn This Night by Z3U5
@@Andreas-ov2fv the song is beautiful, but it is not the same in the 13 min
Last try people, can someone help mi with the song in the end of the video? min 13