Certainly, there are a lot of hero's at Gettysburg, But, calling for a charge down the hill with only bayonets takes some kind of valor for which the Maine unit should get all the credit they deserve.
Another important detail: After marching 27 miles that day in the July heat, Oates' men were out of water. 22 men took all their canteens to fill them, but they were captured . So Oates' men were no doubt, seriously dehydrated.
I am glad you qualified this with an admonition that nothing should take away from the efforts of the Maine men at Gettysburg. I certainly agree that it was not the pivotal point where the war was won for the Union, that was occurring at the same time at Vicksburg. But as the "high water mark" of the confederacy I think it suits and Joshua Chamberlain with the 20th were at the right place at the right time. They had hurriedly moved into the position in the heat of the afternoon so the only advantage they had was in terrain position as they were as effected as the Alabama troops. I know what that is like as a former authentic campaigner in July at Gettysburg and other battle reenactments. Maybe it might have turned out the same if the 20th was not there or some other unit was there but they were not. And it was the happenstance of many moments, the sweeping wheel of Company G with the sudden re-engagement of Company B that put the nail in the coffin of the Confederate attempt to roll up the left flank. This unit suffered heavily throughout the war. My ancestor's muster sheets show half his service either wounded or sick in hospital. He enlisted at age 15 and by the end of the war at 19 had a rebel minie ball in his right hip that eventually debilitated him. I am the great great grandson of Cpl. Henry Elijah Hall, Company G, 20th Maine. My grandpa told me stories of his grandpa, so this is a bit personal to me. I guess I didn't like the "myth" in the title, I know my history. Thanks.
The Alabamians who attacked the 20th ME did so after marching 25 miles that day. Their canteen detail was captured so they did the attack exhausted and in desperate need of water. As neat as the 20th ME’s story is, the federal line was never in danger at Little Round Top. Even if the isolated and unsupported confederates were able to hold the heights it would only be for a moment before getting swept off again by arriving reinforcements. The Mainers had more than just the advantage of terrain on their side and it wasn’t until Killer Angels and the movie that the public started putting importance on the defense of LRT. It was always agreed upon that Cemetery Hill and Culp’s Hill were the cornerstones of the federal position.
@mackenzieblair8135 I agree that a lack of water was a disadvantage to Alabama but even if the Maine canteens were full when they took the position was a temporary advantage. I have marched in full kit and there is never enough water. How much marching do you think Maine had done to get there? They were all exhausted. I agree Culps Hill was key, I have walked that ground and I was there at dusk on a July evening during the 145th anniversary and the pictures I took near the spring used by both sides has some eiry outlines in the shadows. To me the place is spiritual.
@mackenzieblair8135 Most of my texts are packed due to renovations but I rechecked some facts. July 1 the 20th marched over 20 miles to Hanover and stopped at dusk, started to bivouac and take "sparse" rations when ordered to continue to Gettysburg. They stopped about 5 am and napped until 7 am and started to the south east of Union positions, about 18 miles. Then the reports show they were constantly being moved further to the left all day, stopping to build positions then moving again several times until reaching their final defensive position on Little Round Top by 4pm with little time to invest in the position. Overall if the Maine men had any advantage in less physical effort than the Alabamians, to me it would be slight. Loosing the canteen detail was the fortunes of war. Alabama still had the numbers, Chamberlain was down to just over 300 with the misplaced Co B until they rejoined in the fight at a critical point where Alabama was actually stopping the bayonet charge by defending from a stone wall themselves only to be broken up by Co B fire in their rear. This has been a great discussion. Thanks!
If the flank had been turned.... For want of a nail the horse lost it's shoe. If the flank had been turned an Lee took advantage the fishhook would've been untenable. So the nail holding the shoe held the left and the horse wasn't lost And Lee was forced to attack the center. It may not have won the war but it certainly won the day and probably the battle for the Union. The center attack was just as wrong as Fredericksburg
Nobody has ever claimed the the 20th Maine won the battle of Gettysburg for the Union. The role they played was vital, but other units did the same. For someone who claims to want to correct the record, you sure got a lot of things wrong. If you can't even get names right, anything else you say is suspect.
Had the 20th Maine given way, their entire brigade would have gotten rolled up like cheap carpet. The sight of thousands of Union infantry leaving the field in confusion might have caused the rest of Meade's army to also retreat. It was possible that the Union civilians would have lost heart and decided on peace. Nothing was certain of course, but the 20th Maine's defeat could have not only lost the battle, but also lost the war. People nowadays tend to think that Union victory was inevitable. I don't think they realize that it was a closer run thing.
The entire 6th corps was waiting beyond little round top and they were chomping at the bit to get into the fight. The Confederate forces had no follow-on units available to hold the ground.
All men on both sides suffered greatly. The men of the 20th also marched a considerable distance in the heat to get to the battlefield. As a northerner, re-enactor who has been to Gettysburg in that heat, I can attest to how exhausting that heat is and I can't imagine how they as northern men who don't live that the heat, stood the heat exhaustion. It is easy to be an arm chair quarterback 160 years after the fact and argue the varied facts to make the narrative you want told. But war is hell and trying to re-write or tell a different version today is wrong. Nobody really gave the 20th Maine credit for heroics until the fictional book "Killer Angels" and subsequent movie "Gettysburg" were release to the public. Nobody before then made. the outlandish claim that Chamberland and the 20th Maine saved the Union army through their heroics. They were one part of a much larger battle that had heroes saving the day all along the the fish hook!
Lee's plan on the 2nd was an "attack by en echelon". So with that at in mind Law's brigade was not meant to be the definitive action of the battle, if it was more Confederate brigades would of been in place to re enforce the flanking attacks. Cemetery Ridge was the key to the whole Federal position & again Lee knew this.
Richard Chamberlain? Doctor Kildare defended Little Round Top? Also Col. Adelbert Ames was the first Commander of the 20th Maine. He took over V Corps when Mead took over command of the Army of the Potomac. Many of the soldiers had bayonets fixed once the Rebs broke into their lines. I thought you would spend time with the even more mythical Bayonet Charge. But that's for another day.
@@maddhattalscivilwarhistory2728 mead - a great drink .... yep some snarkiness around but the literary bar is much lower for a random commenter vs the YT owner & creator of the content. btw, its all clickbait but your demur of 'not responsible for the winning of Gettysburg' but still "never discount the heroic actions of Col. Chamberlin [sic] and his men" is really 'damning w/ faint praise' - as is calling it a "myth" -- or maybe a strawman .., However, if the Union Army had been routed at Little Round Top would the union line have been rolled off the hills and forced into a retreat ---- we will never know.... anyway, just a thought... Keep writing -
He said exactly what I was thinking. Even if the Confederates took all the hills; what would they have done with them. The Federals didn’t HAVE to go up. However; the Confederates would have to come down. Remember; they were in Pennsylvania with limited food, water or other resources. The Feds had people on the field with plenty of time to reinforce and resupply.
The premise of this youtube is needlessly bombastic. There is no myth here. The quote is from an author without even a degree in history taken from a site promoting the preservation of battlefields, not the careful discernment of historical facts. The author is a veteran and no doubt has great enthusiasm in underlining the valor of the 20th Maine's actions. It is true there were many other critical actions which would have changed the course of the battle had they occured even slightly differently, beginning with Buford's cavalry being first on the scene with their repeating rifles and his prescient assessment of Gettysburg's topographic features for the battle to come. Had Buford been more hesitant and the confederates pushed Buford off Seminary ridge, or if Ewell had been more aggressive and attacked the Union right taking Culp's hill, or if General Hood had been alllowed to swing around the end of big roundtop as he desired rather than assaulting little roundtop directly, or if Lee had simply heeded Longstreet's advice and instead chosen a different site where the union would have instead had to attack confederates on a ground of their choosing, the outcome of the war might have been dramatically different.
@@maddhattalscivilwarhistory2728 Not at all. What I pointed out was that the setup's use of that particular quote was a straw man. It is true that some historians give undue emphasis to this particular action, but to characterize this undue emphasis as a widespread myth in need of debunking is silly.
@SwarmerBees In my opinion, it is a myth and does a disservice to the other units that also contributed to the days outcome. The premise that they were the last line of defense on the Union left is factually untrue. Therefore, this legend is based off a myth.
@@hattals You are also not reading what I stated. Of course the accolade that the American Battlefield Trust gives the 20th Maine is absurd. But just because some enthusiast who is not a historian talks up some aspect of a battle doesn't mean the misconception is widespread and in need of debunking. The RUclipsr saw a burning dumpster and called in a 5 alarm fire. A bit of a silly spectacle. There are a lot more widespread and pernicious illusions about the civil war to get worked up about.
I agree with you, the American Battlefield trust even said the 20th Maines ego was inflated. Ive talked to liscensed battlefield guides at Gettysburg and they all say the same thing the 20th Maine takes all the credit
Wow....I wonder how many of those "licensed battlefield guides" were there for the battle....And I haven't seen anywhere that the 20th Maine took credit for winning the entire battle. This entire tirade by this clown makes me laugh. Hell....not only could be not get the mans name right he couldn't even pronounce the name of the town right where he was from. Oh and he got that wrong too .Col. Chamberlain was NOT from BangOr Maine.
@@RetiredDuke First of, I have been told in history class that the 20th Maine did save the union, now they were important for holding little round top for the time being. But fresh brigades were coming up the hill. And since you wont believe the guides because they werent at the battle (neither were you or I) I will paraphrase Col. Oates from the 15th Alabama Inf. (the ones who were attacking the 20th Maine), Oates said even if we had taken the hill surley we couldnt had held it. He said that after learning about the fresh brigades coming up to support Vincent. Now who gives a damn (except yourself) if he doesnt pronounce a goddamn name correctly ? That is proabably one of the most clownish point ive seen in these comments.
It’s now known after the repairs of the LRT site, that cellphones were found that had belonged to the confederates, so they may have known the time, or delayed by warranty renewal calls. 😃
Wow, great response. If you can’t be trusted to get the simplest of information correct, how can you be trusted with more nuanced ideas. Either your editing or your understanding of the material is flawed. You both spoke the name wrong and had an incorrect graphic. There are plenty of other channels that would not make so basic an error. This makes you a very weak little fish in a big pond. Your reply comment is telling. Instead of acknowledging the error you came back with a snarky remark. This leads me to believe you don’t care about the information you put out, or the product you produce. That’s sadder than initial issue.
Like all after action speculation this seems to take some factors into consideration while ignoring others. Yes, pronouncing that any one unit saved the day is hyperbolic, but I don't believe it is meant to diminish the contributions of other units. Nearly any unit involved in the fighting could have cost the union the battle that day. While the fighting at little round top was going on there was also a major struggle for Culp's requiring the use of much of the reserve force. The move by Sickles to position his force forward of the main line also drained reserves that would not now be available. The taking of little round top would have provided a high ground for cannon to fire down on the Federal troops since if the Union got cannon up there so could the Confederates. It should also be noted the Union supply wagons would have been imperiled which could certainly have cost them the battle. I agree that it is hyperbolic to give them all of the credit, but I don't believe it was meant to take credit away from any other unit, just to praise his own men for their contribution. One last note, the Southern troupes were not the only ones who were exhausted before the fight even started as both sides had marched there and been rushed into place for a battle they had not had time to prepare for. Meade had actually only been placed in charge of the army three days prior and Chamberlain had come straight from his sick bed suffering from (I believe) Malaria and dysentery.
The biggest missing element...the Confederacy had no, none, zero, forces to support an occupation of little round top. That cannot be overstated. The federal 6th corps was waiting in the wings for the federals, and could have been easily deployed to push the small force the confederates were able to place on little round top.
Did they not hold the left flank. If they hadn't, the Union would have been rolled up by Lee's troops and at least forced to withdraw. That allowed the actions in the center on the next day. Got Chamberlain's name wrong, cant pronounce the Maine geographical feature. I dismiss your assertion that the 20th Maine won Gettysburg. Without their efforts a Little Round Top, Gettysburg would have been a Union defeat.
Who? Who was going to "roll them up"? The Texans and Alamabians were by them shelves, exhausted and out of ammuntion. Read Oate's after action report, even he said they could not hold the position had they been able to take it. Also read Sedgwicks AAR, they were chomping at the bit to get into the actionposted up behind 3rd brigade.
I paused the video at 3:35 for correct pronunciation of Pe-nob-scot River. It ain't hard to figure out! Commander of 15th Alabama name includes an E in Oates, not Oats. Get it right boy.
Wow I can tell that I am going to love this video and I can tell that because chamberlain sort of made me and my family sort of famous and what I mean by the famous part is the place where chamberlain and the 20th Maine made their famous bayonet charge was on my 4th great grandparents property and my grandparents Jacob Weikert and Sarah Ickes Weikert lived on a farm on the eastern slope of little round top and they lived in their house during the battle and if you don’t mind me asking but can you do a video on a certain underrated and not well known about skirmish and this certain skirmish took place on June 26th 1863 and it took place west and north of Gettysburg and the skirmish first erupted on the western side of town where union troops composed of the 26th Pennsylvania Emergency Militia under colonel William w Jennings, captain Robert bells Adams County cavalry company and captain Samuel J Randall’s first troop of Philadelphia City Cavalry and facing them was the 35th Virginia battalion of cavalry under lieutenant colonel Elijah v white and John Brown Gordons brigade of Georgians however to the north the 26th Pennsylvania Emergency Militia faced the 17th Virginia Cavalry under colonel William French and this skirmish is underrated and not well known skirmish is overlooked by the more well known Battle of Gettysburg however the skirmish is well known locally mostly due to the only casualty of this skirmish and the casualty was private George Washington Sandoe and he was the first union soldier to die from enemy action during the Battle of Gettysburg even though the battle would start 4 days after the skirmish took place.
Culp's Hill on the right hand even less men to defend it. Besides Culp's Hill was more significant because it guarded the main Union supply line on the Baltimore Pike and the rear of the Union army on Cemetery Ridge.
@@maddhattalscivilwarhistory2728 i'm confused on you stating that the 20th started with 1300 men. Every Historian knows, that the average Civil War Regiment started with 1,000 men plus band members, medical, and supply personnel. But, so far as musket bearing effectives, regiments had 1,000 men...including officers. Artillery and Cavalry unit sizes varied. Maybe 5-10 men per gun in artillery units, whilst cavalry units were 800 to 2,500 effectives plus supplies and medical personnel. In the movie and the book, the 20th Maine has around 300 effectives; with the addition of the 2nd Maine men, it was between 500-600 men. Both sources say the 20th had less than 150 effectives by the 3rd day. Do your math, dude. Guys that wrote about the battle knew their facts.
No one unit was that critical. Important, but not make or break. The Maine unit was next to a unit on Berdan Sharpshooters using th legendary Sharps breachloaders, and it was them who really broke the Confederate charge.m
I am not American but I have observed that fellows who write this revisionist stuff are doing it to draw attention to themselves. I do not take them seriously! I am an Aussie and I would like to have met Josh Chamberlain to shake him by the hand! I would have been honored!
This is no surprise to students of military history. A unit of 320 infantry are only a small cog in a big wheel, even in th1860s. To the movie makers, and the propagandists, these small actions are much more important. Movies like Gettysburg and Glory inspire at least some people to research deeper into these important events. It draws people's attention through character development, involving the viewer in the narrative. Always with these movies you need to apply a 'suspension of disbelief', then really research what actually did happen. It is always more complex then can be portraited in the popular media.
Look. If you want to want to debunk a story of a state that doesn't even get recon for ANYTHING, do it on a different platform. We do not need this video which will be hated by the population of Maine, next to an awesome song of the event. Side Note: NEVER make a video discrediting anything about Maine again or else.
I am not sure what you mean by discredit, infact I said at least 3 times in the video that I did NOT want to discredit their accomplishment. The video was about them being the major reason the Union survived on day 2. Infact, I would say you are discrediting the 1st Wisconsin, the 151st and 141st PA, and MANY others by saying they were the reason the Union held the line.
How can your comments be taken seriously when you don’t take care to even get the names right. The leader of the 20th Maine was Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain. Richard Chamberlain was a TV actor who played Dr. Kildare.
Could've at least mentioned the charge of the 1st Minnesota the 2nd day, if you REALLY wanted to debunk the 20th Maine's hype. Shame the movie never mentioned them. "I need ten minutes...TAKE THAT FLAG!"
I could spend three hours highlighting the brave units on that day, 151st Pennsylvania, Hall's Battery, Coopers Battery, 15th Maine...the list goes on and on.
The movie was based off a best selling book “The Killer Angels” where the decision to hype the 20th Maine and Buford’s Calvary as examples of Federal units in the right place at the right time was made.
Wounded? Not really, he had a bullet hit his scabbard and recieved a bruise. Not really worthy of wound status. However, in a major action on June 18, during the Second Battle of Petersburg, Chamberlain was shot through the right hip and groin, the bullet exiting his left hip. He was the recorded as the last Civil War veteran to die as a result of wounds from the war and considered by some the last casualty of the war. He was "wounded" a totoal of 6 times during the war. In the words of the famous black knight, "Tis but a flesh wound"
Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. - Charles Spurgeon
" Richard Chamberlin"...spelling incorrect.... was a TV actor who played Doctor Kildare many years ago. Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain is the Colonel who led the 20th Maine. The actor Warren Oates, of TV and movie fame, was a direct descendant of Confederate commander Oates you mentioned. In this vein of thought, it is proper to also mention that Confederate General T.R.R. Cobb from Georgia, who was killed at Fredericksburg, was the grandfather of baseball hero Ty Cobb, of the Detroit Tigers. Finally, famous movie actor Tom Hanks is related to Abe Lincoln, whose mother was Nancy Hanks.
Certainly, there are a lot of hero's at Gettysburg, But, calling for a charge down the hill with only bayonets takes some kind of valor for which the Maine unit should get all the credit they deserve.
The story could at least get the name right. The commander of the 20th.Maine at Gettysburg was Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain, not Richard Chamberlain.
This is what he was doing between Dr. Kildare and Shogun.
@spadoc-md lol good one😂
Another important detail: After marching 27 miles that day in the July heat, Oates' men were out of water. 22 men took all their canteens to fill them, but they were captured . So Oates' men were no doubt, seriously dehydrated.
My great, great, great Grandfather was Sargent Andrew j Tozier under the command of Chamberlin he also received the CMH for his bravery
That's cool! By any chance do you have any letters or other items from him? I'd love to read them.
Richard Chamberlain? Wow; he must have found time to fight here between Shogun and Allan Quartermain...Amazing!
At 2:32... "Colonel Richard Chamberlain...?!?!" The commander was Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain. Richard Chamberlain is an actor from the 60's & 70's.
Uh, Richard Chamberlain? If you’re going to make a video like this at least get the man’s name right.
Sorry
I am glad you qualified this with an admonition that nothing should take away from the efforts of the Maine men at Gettysburg. I certainly agree that it was not the pivotal point where the war was won for the Union, that was occurring at the same time at Vicksburg. But as the "high water mark" of the confederacy I think it suits and Joshua Chamberlain with the 20th were at the right place at the right time. They had hurriedly moved into the position in the heat of the afternoon so the only advantage they had was in terrain position as they were as effected as the Alabama troops. I know what that is like as a former authentic campaigner in July at Gettysburg and other battle reenactments. Maybe it might have turned out the same if the 20th was not there or some other unit was there but they were not. And it was the happenstance of many moments, the sweeping wheel of Company G with the sudden re-engagement of Company B that put the nail in the coffin of the Confederate attempt to roll up the left flank. This unit suffered heavily throughout the war. My ancestor's muster sheets show half his service either wounded or sick in hospital. He enlisted at age 15 and by the end of the war at 19 had a rebel minie ball in his right hip that eventually debilitated him. I am the great great grandson of Cpl. Henry Elijah Hall, Company G, 20th Maine. My grandpa told me stories of his grandpa, so this is a bit personal to me. I guess I didn't like the "myth" in the title, I know my history. Thanks.
The Alabamians who attacked the 20th ME did so after marching 25 miles that day. Their canteen detail was captured so they did the attack exhausted and in desperate need of water.
As neat as the 20th ME’s story is, the federal line was never in danger at Little Round Top. Even if the isolated and unsupported confederates were able to hold the heights it would only be for a moment before getting swept off again by arriving reinforcements.
The Mainers had more than just the advantage of terrain on their side and it wasn’t until Killer Angels and the movie that the public started putting importance on the defense of LRT. It was always agreed upon that Cemetery Hill and Culp’s Hill were the cornerstones of the federal position.
@mackenzieblair8135 I agree that a lack of water was a disadvantage to Alabama but even if the Maine canteens were full when they took the position was a temporary advantage. I have marched in full kit and there is never enough water. How much marching do you think Maine had done to get there? They were all exhausted. I agree Culps Hill was key, I have walked that ground and I was there at dusk on a July evening during the 145th anniversary and the pictures I took near the spring used by both sides has some eiry outlines in the shadows. To me the place is spiritual.
@mackenzieblair8135 Most of my texts are packed due to renovations but I rechecked some facts. July 1 the 20th marched over 20 miles to Hanover and stopped at dusk, started to bivouac and take "sparse" rations when ordered to continue to Gettysburg. They stopped about 5 am and napped until 7 am and started to the south east of Union positions, about 18 miles. Then the reports show they were constantly being moved further to the left all day, stopping to build positions then moving again several times until reaching their final defensive position on Little Round Top by 4pm with little time to invest in the position. Overall if the Maine men had any advantage in less physical effort than the Alabamians, to me it would be slight. Loosing the canteen detail was the fortunes of war. Alabama still had the numbers, Chamberlain was down to just over 300 with the misplaced Co B until they rejoined in the fight at a critical point where Alabama was actually stopping the bayonet charge by defending from a stone wall themselves only to be broken up by Co B fire in their rear. This has been a great discussion. Thanks!
If the flank had been turned.... For want of a nail the horse lost it's shoe. If the flank had been turned an Lee took advantage the fishhook would've been untenable. So the nail holding the shoe held the left and the horse wasn't lost And Lee was forced to attack the center. It may not have won the war but it certainly won the day and probably the battle for the Union. The center attack was just as wrong as Fredericksburg
There were many units in the battle that contributed to the win. I want to give a shout out to the 1st Minnesota.
Chamberlain was a hero...hands down.
Did not say he wasn't.
That war was full of heroes
Nobody has ever claimed the the 20th Maine won the battle of Gettysburg for the Union. The role they played was vital, but other units did the same. For someone who claims to want to correct the record, you sure got a lot of things wrong. If you can't even get names right, anything else you say is suspect.
Had the 20th Maine given way, their entire brigade would have gotten rolled up like cheap carpet. The sight of thousands of Union infantry leaving the field in confusion might have caused the rest of Meade's army to also retreat. It was possible that the Union civilians would have lost heart and decided on peace. Nothing was certain of course, but the 20th Maine's defeat could have not only lost the battle, but also lost the war. People nowadays tend to think that Union victory was inevitable. I don't think they realize that it was a closer run thing.
The entire 6th corps was waiting beyond little round top and they were chomping at the bit to get into the fight. The Confederate forces had no follow-on units available to hold the ground.
All men on both sides suffered greatly. The men of the 20th also marched a considerable distance in the heat to get to the battlefield. As a northerner, re-enactor who has been to Gettysburg in that heat, I can attest to how exhausting that heat is and I can't imagine how they as northern men who don't live that the heat, stood the heat exhaustion. It is easy to be an arm chair quarterback 160 years after the fact and argue the varied facts to make the narrative you want told. But war is hell and trying to re-write or tell a different version today is wrong. Nobody really gave the 20th Maine credit for heroics until the fictional book "Killer Angels" and subsequent movie "Gettysburg" were release to the public. Nobody before then made. the outlandish claim that Chamberland and the 20th Maine saved the Union army through their heroics. They were one part of a much larger battle that had heroes saving the day all along the the fish hook!
Yep, just like I said.
Lee's plan on the 2nd was an "attack by en echelon". So with that at in mind Law's brigade was not meant to be the definitive action of the battle, if it was more Confederate brigades would of been in place to re enforce the flanking attacks. Cemetery Ridge was the key to the whole Federal position & again Lee knew this.
Richard Chamberlain?
Doctor Kildare defended Little Round Top?
Also Col. Adelbert Ames was the first Commander of the 20th Maine.
He took over V Corps when Mead took over command of the Army of the Potomac.
Many of the soldiers had bayonets fixed once the Rebs broke into their lines.
I thought you would spend time with the even more mythical Bayonet Charge.
But that's for another day.
Thanks for the great input, but one question...Who is Mead?
@@maddhattalscivilwarhistory2728 Touché
@@maddhattalscivilwarhistory2728 mead - a great drink .... yep some snarkiness around but the literary bar is much lower for a random commenter vs the YT owner & creator of the content. btw, its all clickbait but your demur of 'not responsible for the winning of Gettysburg' but still "never discount the heroic actions of Col. Chamberlin [sic] and his men" is really 'damning w/ faint praise' - as is calling it a "myth" -- or maybe a strawman .., However, if the Union Army had been routed at Little Round Top would the union line have been rolled off the hills and forced into a retreat ---- we will never know....
anyway, just a thought...
Keep writing -
Andrew Tozier was born in East Millinocket Maine and all of my family are from Maine I was born in Bangor
He said exactly what I was thinking. Even if the Confederates took all the hills; what would they have done with them.
The Federals didn’t HAVE to go up. However; the Confederates would have to come down.
Remember; they were in Pennsylvania with limited food, water or other resources. The Feds had people on the field with plenty of time to reinforce and resupply.
The 15th Alabama was given an impossible task. But they had to try.
I am doing a video about the 15th Alabama later this month.
The premise of this youtube is needlessly bombastic. There is no myth here. The quote is from an author without even a degree in history taken from a site promoting the preservation of battlefields, not the careful discernment of historical facts. The author is a veteran and no doubt has great enthusiasm in underlining the valor of the 20th Maine's actions. It is true there were many other critical actions which would have changed the course of the battle had they occured even slightly differently, beginning with Buford's cavalry being first on the scene with their repeating rifles and his prescient assessment of Gettysburg's topographic features for the battle to come. Had Buford been more hesitant and the confederates pushed Buford off Seminary ridge, or if Ewell had been more aggressive and attacked the Union right taking Culp's hill, or if General Hood had been alllowed to swing around the end of big roundtop as he desired rather than assaulting little roundtop directly, or if Lee had simply heeded Longstreet's advice and instead chosen a different site where the union would have instead had to attack confederates on a ground of their choosing, the outcome of the war might have been dramatically different.
So you are saying the 20th Maine's stand is the main reason the Union held on day 2. Sorry, I disagree,
@@maddhattalscivilwarhistory2728 Not at all. What I pointed out was that the setup's use of that particular quote was a straw man. It is true that some historians give undue emphasis to this particular action, but to characterize this undue emphasis as a widespread myth in need of debunking is silly.
@SwarmerBees In my opinion, it is a myth and does a disservice to the other units that also contributed to the days outcome. The premise that they were the last line of defense on the Union left is factually untrue. Therefore, this legend is based off a myth.
@@hattals You are also not reading what I stated. Of course the accolade that the American Battlefield Trust gives the 20th Maine is absurd. But just because some enthusiast who is not a historian talks up some aspect of a battle doesn't mean the misconception is widespread and in need of debunking. The RUclipsr saw a burning dumpster and called in a 5 alarm fire. A bit of a silly spectacle. There are a lot more widespread and pernicious illusions about the civil war to get worked up about.
I agree with you, the American Battlefield trust even said the 20th Maines ego was inflated. Ive talked to liscensed battlefield guides at Gettysburg and they all say the same thing the 20th Maine takes all the credit
Wow....I wonder how many of those "licensed battlefield guides" were there for the battle....And I haven't seen anywhere that the 20th Maine took credit for winning the entire battle. This entire tirade by this clown makes me laugh. Hell....not only could be not get the mans name right he couldn't even pronounce the name of the town right where he was from. Oh and he got that wrong too .Col. Chamberlain was NOT from BangOr Maine.
@@RetiredDuke First of, I have been told in history class that the 20th Maine did save the union, now they were important for holding little round top for the time being. But fresh brigades were coming up the hill. And since you wont believe the guides because they werent at the battle (neither were you or I) I will paraphrase Col. Oates from the 15th Alabama Inf. (the ones who were attacking the 20th Maine), Oates said even if we had taken the hill surley we couldnt had held it. He said that after learning about the fresh brigades coming up to support Vincent. Now who gives a damn (except yourself) if he doesnt pronounce a goddamn name correctly ? That is proabably one of the most clownish point ive seen in these comments.
It’s now known after the repairs of the LRT site, that cellphones were found that had belonged to the confederates, so they may have known the time, or delayed by warranty renewal calls. 😃
I think they were flip phones.
You referred to the Col as Richard. This is day one stuff. I couldn’t watch the rest of the vid… very disappointed. Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain
Oh my, I am so sorry about the mistake, I hope you were able to sleep last night. I promise I will never refer to Nevile Chamberlin as Richard again.
Wow, great response. If you can’t be trusted to get the simplest of information correct, how can you be trusted with more nuanced ideas. Either your editing or your understanding of the material is flawed. You both spoke the name wrong and had an incorrect graphic. There are plenty of other channels that would not make so basic an error. This makes you a very weak little fish in a big pond.
Your reply comment is telling. Instead of acknowledging the error you came back with a snarky remark. This leads me to believe you don’t care about the information you put out, or the product you produce. That’s sadder than initial issue.
Like all after action speculation this seems to take some factors into consideration while ignoring others. Yes, pronouncing that any one unit saved the day is hyperbolic, but I don't believe it is meant to diminish the contributions of other units. Nearly any unit involved in the fighting could have cost the union the battle that day. While the fighting at little round top was going on there was also a major struggle for Culp's requiring the use of much of the reserve force. The move by Sickles to position his force forward of the main line also drained reserves that would not now be available. The taking of little round top would have provided a high ground for cannon to fire down on the Federal troops since if the Union got cannon up there so could the Confederates. It should also be noted the Union supply wagons would have been imperiled which could certainly have cost them the battle. I agree that it is hyperbolic to give them all of the credit, but I don't believe it was meant to take credit away from any other unit, just to praise his own men for their contribution. One last note, the Southern troupes were not the only ones who were exhausted before the fight even started as both sides had marched there and been rushed into place for a battle they had not had time to prepare for. Meade had actually only been placed in charge of the army three days prior and Chamberlain had come straight from his sick bed suffering from (I believe) Malaria and dysentery.
The biggest missing element...the Confederacy had no, none, zero, forces to support an occupation of little round top. That cannot be overstated. The federal 6th corps was waiting in the wings for the federals, and could have been easily deployed to push the small force the confederates were able to place on little round top.
Did they not hold the left flank. If they hadn't, the Union would have been rolled up by Lee's troops and at least forced to withdraw. That allowed the actions in the center on the next day. Got Chamberlain's name wrong, cant pronounce the Maine geographical feature. I dismiss your assertion that the 20th Maine won Gettysburg. Without their efforts a Little Round Top, Gettysburg would have been a Union defeat.
Who? Who was going to "roll them up"? The Texans and Alamabians were by them shelves, exhausted and out of ammuntion. Read Oate's after action report, even he said they could not hold the position had they been able to take it. Also read Sedgwicks AAR, they were chomping at the bit to get into the actionposted up behind 3rd brigade.
Colonel William Oats ? NO, its OATES.
I paused the video at 3:35 for correct pronunciation of Pe-nob-scot River. It ain't hard to figure out!
Commander of 15th Alabama name includes an E in Oates, not Oats. Get it right boy.
Lawrence Joshua Chamberlain was his birth name, hence his brother calling him Lawrence in the film Gettysburg.
Chamberlain was from Brewer, right near Bangor. Pronounced BANG-gore, NOT Banger. And Penobscot River pronounced pen-OBB-scott.
Awesome video! Chamberlain and Sickles both tried and succeeded in making themselves heroes. We know better now.
Chamberlain was a fine officer and heroic leader. Nothing here discounts that. Thiscquibbkesome revisionist stuff is basically clickbait.
Wow I can tell that I am going to love this video and I can tell that because chamberlain sort of made me and my family sort of famous and what I mean by the famous part is the place where chamberlain and the 20th Maine made their famous bayonet charge was on my 4th great grandparents property and my grandparents Jacob Weikert and Sarah Ickes Weikert lived on a farm on the eastern slope of little round top and they lived in their house during the battle and if you don’t mind me asking but can you do a video on a certain underrated and not well known about skirmish and this certain skirmish took place on June 26th 1863 and it took place west and north of Gettysburg and the skirmish first erupted on the western side of town where union troops composed of the 26th Pennsylvania Emergency Militia under colonel William w Jennings, captain Robert bells Adams County cavalry company and captain Samuel J Randall’s first troop of Philadelphia City Cavalry and facing them was the 35th Virginia battalion of cavalry under lieutenant colonel Elijah v white and John Brown Gordons brigade of Georgians however to the north the 26th Pennsylvania Emergency Militia faced the 17th Virginia Cavalry under colonel William French and this skirmish is underrated and not well known skirmish is overlooked by the more well known Battle of Gettysburg however the skirmish is well known locally mostly due to the only casualty of this skirmish and the casualty was private George Washington Sandoe and he was the first union soldier to die from enemy action during the Battle of Gettysburg even though the battle would start 4 days after the skirmish took place.
That's really cool, I will most definitely look into that. I love
reading about those low key type of engagements
Culp's Hill on the right hand even less men to defend it. Besides Culp's Hill was more significant because it guarded the main Union supply line on the Baltimore Pike and the rear of the Union army on Cemetery Ridge.
At 7:33 your photo captioned Colonel Strong Vincent is ACTUALLY Brigadier General Stephen Hinsdale Weed...
Umm, the Colonel's name was Joshua or Lawrence I believe, and I'm confused over his facts on the 20th Maine's numbers.
What are you confused about?
@@maddhattalscivilwarhistory2728 i'm confused on you stating that the 20th started with 1300 men. Every Historian knows, that the average Civil War Regiment started with 1,000 men plus band members, medical, and supply personnel. But, so far as musket bearing effectives, regiments had 1,000 men...including officers. Artillery and Cavalry unit sizes varied. Maybe 5-10 men per gun in artillery units, whilst cavalry units were 800 to 2,500 effectives plus supplies and medical personnel. In the movie and the book, the 20th Maine has around 300 effectives; with the addition of the 2nd Maine men, it was between 500-600 men. Both sources say the 20th had less than 150 effectives by the 3rd day. Do your math, dude. Guys that wrote about the battle knew their facts.
Richard Chamberlain? The British actor?
No one unit was that critical. Important, but not make or break. The Maine unit was next to a unit on Berdan Sharpshooters using th legendary Sharps breachloaders, and it was them who really broke the Confederate charge.m
An interesting piece but the only time I've heard that the 2oth Maine saved the Union was in Ken Burns' CIVIL WAR series.
You mean Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain ?
I am not American but I have observed that fellows who write this revisionist stuff are doing it to draw attention to themselves. I do not take them seriously! I am an Aussie and I would like to have met Josh Chamberlain to shake him by the hand! I would have been honored!
This is no surprise to students of military history. A unit of 320 infantry are only a small cog in a big wheel, even in th1860s. To the movie makers, and the propagandists, these small actions are much more important. Movies like Gettysburg and Glory inspire at least some people to research deeper into these important events. It draws people's attention through character development, involving the viewer in the narrative. Always with these movies you need to apply a 'suspension of disbelief', then really research what actually did happen. It is always more complex then can be portraited in the popular media.
Look. If you want to want to debunk a story of a state that doesn't even get recon for ANYTHING, do it on a different platform. We do not need this video which will be hated by the population of Maine, next to an awesome song of the event. Side Note: NEVER make a video discrediting anything about Maine again or else.
I am not sure what you mean by discredit, infact I said at least 3 times in the video that I did NOT want to discredit their accomplishment. The video was about them being the major reason the Union survived on day 2. Infact, I would say you are discrediting the 1st Wisconsin, the 151st and 141st PA, and MANY others by saying they were the reason the Union held the line.
The river is pronounced Pen-ob-scott, just FYI. If you're not from New England, you probably wouldn't know.
How can your comments be taken seriously when you don’t take care to even get the names right. The leader of the 20th Maine was Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain. Richard Chamberlain was a TV actor who played Dr. Kildare.
Could've at least mentioned the charge of the 1st Minnesota the 2nd day, if you REALLY wanted to debunk the 20th Maine's hype. Shame the movie never mentioned them. "I need ten minutes...TAKE THAT FLAG!"
I could spend three hours highlighting the brave units on that day, 151st Pennsylvania, Hall's Battery, Coopers Battery, 15th Maine...the list goes on and on.
The movie was based off a best selling book “The Killer Angels” where the decision to hype the 20th Maine and Buford’s Calvary
as examples of Federal units in the right place at the right time
was made.
Dude his name was Joshua Lawrence not "Richard." (2:30).
No one man wins a battle. But,Richard Chamberlain played a doctor and an Australian priest on TV. YOU LOST YOUR CREDIBILITY AT THAT POINT!
I bow at your feet oh wise one, BTW, I saw your post before you edited it, talk about losing crediablity! Mine was a type-o yours was pure idiocy.
20th Maine was not at Maryes Heights. It was farther to the unions left.
...and the 20th Maine was not at Gettysburg either. 🙃
Did he call him "Richard" Chamberlain?
Richard Chamberlain? You can't get his name right what else are you getting wrong?
Richard Chamberlain played Dr. Kildare.
He was awarded the Medal of Honor - must have done something right...narrator sing-songs his way through this...uff
Ummm...Sickles got a MOH also, soooo
You don't mention that Chamberlain was wounded during this battle.
Wounded? Not really, he had a bullet hit his scabbard and recieved a bruise. Not really worthy of wound status. However, in a major action on June 18, during the Second Battle of Petersburg, Chamberlain was shot through the right hip and groin, the bullet exiting his left hip. He was the recorded as the last Civil War veteran to die as a result of wounds from the war and considered by some the last casualty of the war. He was "wounded" a totoal of 6 times during the war. In the words of the famous black knight, "Tis but a flesh wound"
@@maddhattalscivilwarhistory2728 thanks for clarifying
It would be a better presentation if narration was the same volume as the intro......thanks
been there would not want to be in that fight.
Colonel Oates, not Oats.
You could at the least get his name correct!!
I found all your videos to be perfectly done! Great work!
Pen-nob-scott River
Give it a rest.......
"Richard Chamberlain" the C.O.??!!! Try Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain, you fool.
Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. - Charles Spurgeon
Richard Chamberlain? 😂
" Richard Chamberlin"...spelling incorrect.... was a TV actor who played Doctor Kildare many years ago. Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain is the Colonel who led the 20th Maine. The actor Warren Oates, of TV and movie fame, was a direct descendant of Confederate commander Oates you mentioned. In this vein of thought, it is proper to also mention that Confederate General T.R.R. Cobb from Georgia, who was killed at Fredericksburg, was the grandfather of baseball hero Ty Cobb, of the Detroit Tigers. Finally, famous movie actor Tom Hanks is related to Abe Lincoln, whose mother was Nancy Hanks.