What did you think of the spiral markings on German Aircraft? Did you realise that was the reason? Welcome back! If you are new here make sure to hit subscribe to expand your knowledge on Military History and join the growing Premier History Community!
@@CL-we8tn Because they thought of the evil-looking spirals as potentially mind-altering magic-spell helical vortices, perhaps that if stared into during air-to-air combat, would drive the fighter pilots insane!
As an aircrew on a dual prop aircraft in the USN, we practiced touching the tire when going into the side door regardless of whether or not the prop was spinning. It was drilled into us to never walk through the prop arc, and to always walk around it. When you're doing a hot swap out of aircrews at NIGHT, with props turning, and feathered, there's no air being pushed aft. The props are both invisible and there's no wind to tell they are spinning. Add the noise of dozens of jet engines turning, and you have very little sense of where the danger is from a turning prop. Make it a habit to stay out of the prop arc and it might save your life.
Good idea 💯 I think that you have to be aware of the propellers all of the time and I didn't think about the flat no pitch propeller to not make noise or wake... great advice
Every time I watch film of WWII flight deck ops, with tightly-packed aircraft warming up engines, I am amazed that the decks weren't charnel houses of prop strikes.
I’ve got years turd shirting/ squadron trouble shooting on the roof and most of it working night flight ops. I’ve come within an arms reach of stepping into turning prop arch. Once and it was my first ever 10 seconds on deck. Talk about ice in the veins and poop running down both legs. I don’t know if I buy the ground crew safety thing. Maybe personnel at a distance for quick ID what’s turning on the flight line. The lads in close proximity pretty much work with a “put it to muscle memory” stay away from the spiny thingys static or turning. Personally the hub paint is far more eye catching than painted tips. Mostly lighting conditions day or night I couldn’t spy the painted tips very well
I was aircrew on the P-3. G*d help ya if you walked thru the prop arc cause if you did there’d magically appear a flight engineer or Chief to rip you a new one. I still work in Naval Aviation so I still take the long way around the engines rather than shortcut it along the fuselage.
The allies didn't tend to copy the spirals on the spinners but they did paint the prop tips yellow, and this was for much the same reason. Probably more effective as a warning to ground crews too, as it covered a larger area.
It's about recognizing the movement. Yellow tips will just blend into a yello circle when the prop rotates, but the spiral produces a slow axial movement much slower than the rotation of the propeller that can be seen even at high revolutions.
A darn good idea. I always thought the spirals provided an easy way to tell if an engine was running. Worked equally well for the Germans and domestic airlines.
Couldn't see the front of the engine if you approached the aircraft from the rear. If you always approach an aircraft from the front or side, as you should, you should already be giving the propellers a wide berth and assume they are spinning. It makes little sense that the sprials are for aircrews.
I think the same thing explains why some other German aircraft had a one-third section of the spinner painted white. It creates almost a twinkling effect on the spinner, and you can clearly see the prop is spinning. It probably also had a useful friend/foe recognition effect, as no Allied fighters featured this marking.
@@evelynwalker1998 You would think that, but you would be wrong. For one thing, the human eye perceives movement, and the pattern painted on the spinner will be moving, and therefore _highly_ noticeable. This makes it very useful for recognition. For the second thing, it's surprising what minute details one will fixate on under the stress of combat. For example: the U.S.A.A.F. roundel featured a white star in a blue circle, with a red dot in the center of the star. That red dot was removed because in the Pacific theater, that flash of red was being mistaken for the red _hinomaru_ marking on Japanese aircraft, resulting in friendly fire incidents. And what's more, the white bars that were added to either side of the roundel, were put there because experiments, and combat experiments had shown that shapes were more important that colors. The U.S. roundel was the same shape as the Japanse _hinomaru,_ and even that superficial similarity was judged too close, so the bars were added. And on top of that, between June and August of 1943, a red outline was added to the U.S. insignia. The reason it was only in service that three months, was because that red color, once again, was causing friendly fire incidents. Even though shapes are more important, and even though the outline's shape was nothing like the Japanese red sun marking, it was close enough to be a seen as a problem. So the red outline was changed to blue (blending it into the blue of the roundel). The moving pattern on the spinner might _seem_ insignificant to someone considering the matter academically decades later. It wasn't to the men who experienced the stress of combat back then.
The Half and Half, I'm surprised he did not mention it, best thing about this if it has any negative visual effects on the observer is the pilot can not see it. I wonder what a rear gunner would see, if it would be distracting or disorienting..
I'd always heard it was meant to dazzle or disorient allied tail gunners, but ground crew safety seems a much more plausible reason for their relatively long-term use.
@@frustriert No I'd actually heard it, possibly from one of the less-than-scholarly documentaries I would watch growing up. It's possible some allied soldier saw the spiral paint and not knowing its purpose made that assumption?
I had read a long time ago that the spirals were for safety, but also for quick recognition in flight, especially when the aircraft is viewed from head on.
Yes, it was widely reported at the time that enemy pilots often grew very sleepy during dogfights with German fighter pilots and while attacking German bombers, and were open to hypnotic messages over their radio like attacking their own squadron.
My father was one of many Dutch people who were forced to work at gunpoint in Germany during the war. He worked at the factory where the ME109 was build and he once asked someone over there why the spirals. The answer he gat was "Das macht die Englander verruckt"... translated; "This is done to drive the British crazy" Whether my dad was told a joke I do not know, but this he was told WHILE he was there in the war.
An Uncle of mine who had been in the Luftwaffe had said the same thing, only he had said "Allied Flyers" and had made his eyes go round and round which always made us kids laugh.
I have been a military aviation buff since birth (my dad was a fighter pilot). I never knew the reason for the spirals and sometimes propeller hubs being painted black and white sectioned in four quadrants. Thank you for sharing this!
First Well, the german aircraft spinners had an second interesting paint scheme. Not painted in four quadrants, but in three thirds. 1/3 white and 2/3 black. If the prop spins, our eyes see a totally black spinner for a longer time and a white one for a split time. That makes an even more disturbing effect on our brains. Try it, you will be surprised - I painted a Cessna 206 that way to warn my skydiver friends on the ground while approaching the aircraft. Second The spirals differ from Geschwader to Geschwader! So, if aircraft with the same aircraft signs were placed in the near proximity, they could be identified by their production number, but faster with the help of the different, wing assigned, spiral. Hope the information helps as well!! Prop clear?!
I remember reading years ago that when the original “Flying Tigers” became active in the Indo-China theatre that they would paint the cone or possibly part of the nose of the aircraft different colors each day so that the enemy would maybe notice the different colors of the aircraft and that was to make them think the FT’s had more P-40’s then they actually did have.
@@R.J._Lewis General Robert L Scott the Author of God is my Co-Pilot the only active Duty USAAC officer to fly with the Tigers pretty much admitted he did that to basically fuck with the Japs minds.
my father was on a large airbase in India during WW2, they went on 24 hour alert. These planes of that era didn't start right up like a car, they had such thick oil that had to be heated up, etc. so they ran the planes 24/7 so they could take off in mere minutes. There would be so much noise that the crews wouldn't notice the noise after a while, there would be guys walking in to props regularly
It was useful, of course, to protec the ground crew. But they are quite cool for us! And a nightmare for the people into plastic models, by other hand.
There are good after-market mask sets available - you paint the whole spinner white or yellow, apply the spiral mask then repaint in the dark green or black and then remove the mask - et Voila! Some kits even include them with the masks they provide. But not many.
That’s very interesting. - I seem to also recall some commentary that there was a belief that the spiral or uneven flash effect contributed to a perception error from an adversary, giving the impression the aircraft was flying in an altered attitude thereby throwing off their aim. Thank you for the excellent video.
@@txgunguy2766 "Dazel camouflage" was used by shipping to make ranging and depth perception much more difficult for u boats 🚤 and in nature the zebra 🦓 and the leopard 🐆 have been using this tactic for thousands of years...
In the late 70's while doing a long commercial cross-country flight for my rating I landed at an airport in New Jersey (US) for a short stop. As I was walking back out to my aircraft on the tarmac a woman walked into the spinning prop of her own Piper 140 which her husband had started prior to her arrival. It was a very noisy environment as tarmacs at large airports usually are and I guess she just wasn't paying attention but I really have no idea. It's something I've never been able to forget, try as I might.
At 2:35, you stated "on a windy day the propeller blades could spin in the wrong direction." Are you suggesting that a direct-driven propeller will be turned by the force of wind while an aircraft is on the ground? Do you really think that happens? Please can you explain the mechanics of that and post a link or reference. Thank you.
I think you have it all wrong. The spiral swirls were meant to signify that the pilot was also a licensed barber. Between flights, these skillful men sometimes gave airmen haircuts, using the propeller blades to perform the cutting.
One small note - While a number of Aircraft with Spinner spirals did have black spinners, the most common colour was in cact a Very Dark Green - (Called Schwartgrun or Black-Green) which was, officially RLM 70 Schwartzgrun. It does appear almost black in a Black and White photo, it is that dark. But is is green. Sometimes if the Cowling was in an ID colour like yellow or white, this would be extended to the spinner and a thin Black or Black-green spiral painted on the spinner .... (like a photo negative of the usual...)
It indicates that the engine is turning the right way. If the spiral wasn't there, the pilot may not have noticed this until he was several hundred feet in the air, and flying backwards
On propellers with more than 2 blades even at idle its very hard to tell its turning and many got killed as a result. The threshold for persistence if vision is about 20hz. The spiral requires many rotations to see it move from middle to outside and falls well below 20hz so its easy to see. These are used today on jet engines for the same reason. They are dangerous even when the engine is not running because they windmil.
Right. From the footage I've seen of these planes being started, the ground crew guy is putting quite a bit of muscle into pulling the blade around to start it.
@@ThommyofThenn Exactly. The ground crewman would pull the propeller through however many blades( to get the oil circulated , I believe) and then he would hand crank the inertial starter. As you said, just by judging the amount of effort that's needed to pull the blades through a number of revolutions against the pistons, you can see, that even on a very windy day, air alone isn't going to turn the propeller in the manner described by the narrator.
@@localbod Also, what ground crewman isn't going to know the prop is turning when the engine is making enough noise that he can't hear himself think? This video is pure bunk.
These videos are thoroughly interesting - thank you for making them. One consistent thing I noticed though (and haven't seen any feedback yet, so I'll venture to say it) is the pronunciation of Messerschmitt (cf. Messher-smitt vs Messer-shmitt). Keep these coming!
Also used to tune the speed governor with a stroboscope set at the right speed Since german WW2 planes didnt have a speed governor, it was 100% reliant on the tune of the rpm gauge inside It was already widely used in automobile industry of that time
I was told in the air force that they always had a reverse spiral, as standing in front of the aircraft waiting to marshall it away the forward spiral could draw you into it. Made sense to me..
I read somewhere that a reason for spirls on the propeller spinners was that it would tend to throw off the aim of gunners shooting at the plane when attacking a bomber head on.
@@CL-we8tn I think they did a study where they had people with rifles shooting at spinning spiral targets compared to people shooting at regular static bullseyes, and found that the folks shooting at spinning spirals missed the mark more often.
@@ice9snowflake187 ok, I'll buy that, but up in the air that prop is spinning so fast it looks like a solid color. Typically it's actually very difficult to see other aircraft when you're in the air as well. That is why we have radar and comms. Even taking radar out to only ground based for ww2 you'd still have comms and over enemy territory you'd have comms with each other. I think spotting an enemy aircraft on your exact height would be crazy luck because the bodies were painted Grey, so above you, almost impossible to see, below you, the yellow wing would be visible, but that's only the Raf, what about all the other allies? No, i think this is a carry over from hand starting props, the spiral indicates direction and I think this was like the last ditch effort. If you land, if you can get up again, if your electrics are working but you must hand start, then apply hand here, spin in this direction and pray. IMO
@@CL-we8tn I don't disagree with any of that. Obviously, the idea that things would line up so that some gunner seeing the spiral might be a small percentage of chance less likely to hit the target, isn't that big a factor to be considered in the pilot's chance of survival, or luck, or whatever. Still, if the spiral helps at all, it's better than not having it. Giving the ground crew something to determine rotation, and the direction of the propeller's rotation, makes more practical sense. I don't see how useful it would be to a guy standing behind the propeller, though.
I always understood that the spirals on the hub produced a hypnotic effect on the gunners trying to shoot down German airplanes especially the small front the Me 109G and the Fw 190-8 or the Fw 190-D9 offered to the allies. Personally I don't think it to scare off the birds because of high speed and altitudes...
I'd always thought that the Germans had only one purpose in mind with these spirals: to make future modellers' life miserable, particularlly mine. I suck at painting these things!
As mentioned elsewhere some spinners were not painted in a spiral but in segments. Another reason I read they painted the spinners like that was it was thought it would throw off bomber's gunners aim, making them harder to focus on, when the fighters were attacking them.
Unlikely. The gunners would be opening up on an attacking fighter at a range of several hundred yards.The spinner's spiral would be invisible. Not to mention closing speeds of up to 600 mph.
Great video! But I’m finding it hard to imagine a prop attached to a BMW radial or any other type could be spun reverse wise by ground wind speeds. And yes, I’ve hand-thrown props. The only possible way I could see this happening is if pitch settings had been changed. But what does this have to do with fuelling, unless it’s an isolation? Could be priming but then there would be resistance from the engine.
I'd like more information on this too because that wind would have to be blowing like a hurricane to overcome the resistance in a bmw 801 or a Db 605 (especially if oil is in the cylinders) . the comments in the video about fueling threw me off too.
@@bryantbridgewaters3977 I know that some constant-speed hubs can freewheel. But a big prop spinning is going to be a hazard, powered or not. What it has to do with fuel escapes me?
I wonder if these were the same reasons why on American fighter planes, each half of the nose cone was a different color from the other (in this case, on half black and the other half white)
Same reason we used to paint tail rotor blades red and yellow, on our helicopters ...to make people aware when they were spinning. I've never seen it but heard enough credible stories to imagine it's not very pleasant
Makes sense to me, especially about modern jets...the fan blades inside the turbine shell hides the motion of the blades quite well, something to indicate motion is a good thing.
Prop hubs and turbine hubs are painted with spirals for the safety of the ground crew and in addition in modern passenger or transport planes for the pilots to look out of the window of the cockpit to check the engine status (in case of an loss of feedback in the board systems). Spiral was chosen since this geometry can be identified as moving over the whole RPM range. Lines or other shapes placed at the same angular rotation to the axis can appear stationary despite turning very fast. Especially in low light conditions, its much easier to look at the hub and see a spinning spiral than to try to see the moving prop blades or discern if the blades of the turbine are stationary or are a uniformly mass due to high RPM. (in regards to moving or not moving, if you are a passenger on your next drive on the highway, check the rims of some cars, you will see some turning forward, some backward and some looking like they are standing still, all depending on the rim geometry and the speed of the vehicle => rotation speed.)
It’s surprising how many people have fatally walked into a spinning propeller. At full power, the prop becomes almost invisible. It would make perfect sense that it was intended as an “attention getter”.
A famous case was Australian professional golfer Jack Newton, who was a top contender for the majors over ten years, when he was nearly killed by walking into the spinning propeller of a Cessna, in 1983. He survived, but with crippling injuries.
I remember reading somewhere years ago that the spiral put off allied gunners in bombers from accurately gauging speed and distance as the fighters closed in on the bombers. Something to do with tricking the eyes , or something, so they couldn't get a proper aim on the fighter in the sights.
Myth. That was US gunners trying to explain why they shot down (relatively) so few German fighters.... "Aww... those spirals put me off my aim... (Not that no-one taught him deflection shooting - unless he was a duck hunter!) They fact they did get a number was largely due to the volume of fire in the "Bomber Box" formations. One German fighter going down usually generated about 7 claims from gunners in 7 aircraft! And all 7 were all shooting at him so which one scored the hit is always debatable
With a closing speed around 500mph and attacker and attack both moving getting a hit from a bomber gunner is difficult in the extreme. Question as to lack of kills from the gunners are usually asked by people that have never tried it.
@@brettpeacock9116 Rule of thumb is fighters approx 1 out of every 3 "confirmed" claims is accurate; bomber gunners 1 out of every 10. Massive, massive overclaiming (not necessarily in bad faith) was absolutely endemic in every nation and branch.
I always believed it was a crude substitute for a tachometer that the ground crew could use to tell if the 2nd ,3rd or fourth engine had started started as you wouldn't hear it over the sound of the first engine.
As a former Navy Aircrewman on P-3's , one thing drummed into you from day 1: NEVER WALK THROUGH THE ARC OF THE PROP!! Whether on the ground and static or any other way. The prop always wins!
@@AuratusCricetus yes, radar, not what but where, but I think it was only ground to air and I know for a fact underwater. Dan Carlin loves telling the story, it was the highlight of ww2 where he grew up, think Los Angeles.
@@CL-we8tn For a fact, radar doesn't work underwater. Air to air, ground to air, ground to ground and air to ground radars were well established in WW2. You mean sonar. Second fact: you weren't born back then, so you're not part of "we". Or did you serve your country in WW2 ? Third fact: Brits had radar before "you" did. They also invented counter-measures. And who the F is Dan Carlin ?
A Porsche mechanic I once knew in Montreal told me that his father had flown Bf109s, and he claimed that the spiral was to confuse gunners as the optical illusion was distracting.
My dad witnessed an accident on an Airforce base in the 1960's. A civilian airliner (propeller driven) was preparing to transport a load of solders to Vietnam. The crew realized they were missing some paperwork and the young (early 20's) volunteered to go get it. She stepped off the plane then walked into the propeller of the running engine. There wasn't much left of her body, and he said the scene in Raider's of the lost Ark, wasn't nearly bloody enough. It was quite messy.
@@thomashesselgrave6898 It would be an extremely stupid way to punish someone. Any prop strike can badly damage the engine. In case of any sort of prop strike the engine needs to be disassembled and checked. Sometimes you hear something like that and while it might sound plausible if you don't know any better, if you do you can say right away that it's bullshit. I know a guy who hit a deer with his airplane a Cessna 172. He wasn't going very fast, maybe 15 MPH, and only the propeller hit the deer. It was not good for the deer but it was also very bad for the airplane. The propeller was bent and the engine suffered quite a bit of damage. It also nearly tore the engine off it's mounds. Executing a POW in that way would be very messy and it would also likely render the plane unflyable.
I did 21 years of US naval aviation, 12 years in turbo props. So I have been around lots of whirling death. Besides being an indication of a turning prop, I wonder if it also had anything to do with driving birds away as well to reduce bird strikes?
A friend serving as an airplane mechanic in Vietnam was hit by a propeller, was seriously injured but lived. Sadly, his pain level was through the roof for the rest of his life.
What did you think of the spiral markings on German Aircraft? Did you realise that was the reason?
Welcome back! If you are new here make sure to hit subscribe to expand your knowledge on Military History and join the growing Premier History Community!
Ok but why didn't other nations do the same?
@@CL-we8tn Because they thought of the evil-looking spirals as potentially mind-altering magic-spell helical vortices, perhaps that if stared into during air-to-air combat, would drive the fighter pilots insane!
@@SharkHustler 😂😂😂😂
Was meant to be used with special "boring paint." That way German pilots could start a hole in enemy aircraft without wasting ammo.. 0:57
@@cleemccarthy1022 a hole, they were going to bore a hole with something that had thread painted on? 🤦♀️
As an aircrew on a dual prop aircraft in the USN, we practiced touching the tire when going into the side door regardless of whether or not the prop was spinning. It was drilled into us to never walk through the prop arc, and to always walk around it. When you're doing a hot swap out of aircrews at NIGHT, with props turning, and feathered, there's no air being pushed aft. The props are both invisible and there's no wind to tell they are spinning. Add the noise of dozens of jet engines turning, and you have very little sense of where the danger is from a turning prop. Make it a habit to stay out of the prop arc and it might save your life.
Good idea 💯 I think that you have to be aware of the propellers all of the time and I didn't think about the flat no pitch propeller to not make noise or wake... great advice
Every time I watch film of WWII flight deck ops, with tightly-packed aircraft warming up engines, I am amazed that the decks weren't charnel houses of prop strikes.
Coming from a veteran ag pilot I’d say this is the best answer.
I’ve got years turd shirting/ squadron trouble shooting on the roof and most of it working night flight ops. I’ve come within an arms reach of stepping into turning prop arch. Once and it was my first ever 10 seconds on deck. Talk about ice in the veins and poop running down both legs. I don’t know if I buy the ground crew safety thing. Maybe personnel at a distance for quick ID what’s turning on the flight line.
The lads in close proximity pretty much work with a “put it to muscle memory” stay away from the spiny thingys static or turning. Personally the hub paint is far more eye catching than painted tips. Mostly lighting conditions day or night I couldn’t spy the painted tips very well
I was aircrew on the P-3. G*d help ya if you walked thru the prop arc cause if you did there’d magically appear a flight engineer or Chief to rip you a new one. I still work in Naval Aviation so I still take the long way around the engines rather than shortcut it along the fuselage.
The allies didn't tend to copy the spirals on the spinners but they did paint the prop tips yellow, and this was for much the same reason. Probably more effective as a warning to ground crews too, as it covered a larger area.
They also had the logo of the company making the propellers in the middle of each propeller blade and that also helped.
It saved my life.
Good point
It's about recognizing the movement. Yellow tips will just blend into a yello circle when the prop rotates, but the spiral produces a slow axial movement much slower than the rotation of the propeller that can be seen even at high revolutions.
That would have been my first guess, honestly.
1.25x speed. You're welcome.
This actually really works, thank you. It doesn't make the dialogue sound rushed but let's you get through the material more efficiently.
It's interesting how some channels talk this fast at normal playback rate.
Oh shit thank u
thank God I read the comments first
Jesus, thank you
Dude Sweeney stressed, lay back, a 5 minute video isn’t too much :)
A darn good idea. I always thought the spirals provided an easy way to tell if an engine was running. Worked equally well for the Germans and domestic airlines.
I've noticed that jet airliner engines have a spiral on the front of the compressor blades shaft and it does the same thing to
If you can see the propellor blades, the engine is off. If you can’t, it’s on. Simple.
@@CorePathway I heard that propeller blade tips move at the speed of sound when the engine is at maximum RPM...?
Couldn't see the front of the engine if you approached the aircraft from the rear. If you always approach an aircraft from the front or side, as you should, you should already be giving the propellers a wide berth and assume they are spinning. It makes little sense that the sprials are for aircrews.
It was actually to hypnotize the enemy
I think the same thing explains why some other German aircraft had a one-third section of the spinner painted white. It creates almost a twinkling effect on the spinner, and you can clearly see the prop is spinning. It probably also had a useful friend/foe recognition effect, as no Allied fighters featured this marking.
The racing paint scheme on Super Corsair Race 57 includes a white prop blade. Interesting to watch
You are right on both counts.
if you got to get that close to notice a painted spinner, you probably need to study the aircraft type.
@@evelynwalker1998 You would think that, but you would be wrong. For one thing, the human eye perceives movement, and the pattern painted on the spinner will be moving, and therefore _highly_ noticeable. This makes it very useful for recognition. For the second thing, it's surprising what minute details one will fixate on under the stress of combat. For example: the U.S.A.A.F. roundel featured a white star in a blue circle, with a red dot in the center of the star. That red dot was removed because in the Pacific theater, that flash of red was being mistaken for the red _hinomaru_ marking on Japanese aircraft, resulting in friendly fire incidents.
And what's more, the white bars that were added to either side of the roundel, were put there because experiments, and combat experiments had shown that shapes were more important that colors. The U.S. roundel was the same shape as the Japanse _hinomaru,_ and even that superficial similarity was judged too close, so the bars were added.
And on top of that, between June and August of 1943, a red outline was added to the U.S. insignia. The reason it was only in service that three months, was because that red color, once again, was causing friendly fire incidents. Even though shapes are more important, and even though the outline's shape was nothing like the Japanese red sun marking, it was close enough to be a seen as a problem. So the red outline was changed to blue (blending it into the blue of the roundel).
The moving pattern on the spinner might _seem_ insignificant to someone considering the matter academically decades later. It wasn't to the men who experienced the stress of combat back then.
The Half and Half, I'm surprised he did not mention it, best thing about this if it has any negative visual effects on the observer is the pilot can not see it. I wonder what a rear gunner would see, if it would be distracting or disorienting..
I'd always heard it was meant to dazzle or disorient allied tail gunners, but ground crew safety seems a much more plausible reason for their relatively long-term use.
oh lord jesus, you really made me laugh. you made that up or did you really hear that somewhere?
Is his defense I remember reading that somewhere too but for the life of me I can't recall@@frustriert
@@frustriert No I'd actually heard it, possibly from one of the less-than-scholarly documentaries I would watch growing up. It's possible some allied soldier saw the spiral paint and not knowing its purpose made that assumption?
@@frustrierti did hear it from somewhere but i cant remember
@@frustriertWhy are you being a dick to him?
I had read a long time ago that the spirals were for safety, but also for quick recognition in flight, especially when the aircraft is viewed from head on.
Reason for spiral was simple.They were trying to hypnotize enemy pilots.
You have obviously hit upon the correct answer!! Congratulations!
lol
People that know how weird the nazis actualy were woyld onow this to be 75% of the truth i mean they believed in tons of wierd shit
You bet me to it 👍
Yes, it was widely reported at the time that enemy pilots often grew very sleepy during dogfights with German fighter pilots and while attacking German bombers, and were open to hypnotic messages over their radio like attacking their own squadron.
My father was one of many Dutch people who were forced to work at gunpoint in Germany during the war. He worked at the factory where the ME109 was build and he once asked someone over there why the spirals. The answer he gat was "Das macht die Englander verruckt"... translated; "This is done to drive the British crazy"
Whether my dad was told a joke I do not know, but this he was told WHILE he was there in the war.
The one holding the gun can tell any story he wants !
@@peterruiz6117Maybe a little private didn’t want to appear as if he didn’t know and just told what he heard somewhere.
An Uncle of mine who had been in the Luftwaffe had said the same thing, only he had said "Allied Flyers" and had made his eyes go round and round which always made us kids laugh.
@@GilbertdeClare0704 ah okay. Two witnesses. That’s quite solid. Thank you.
@@dgerdi Gern geschehen😊..ps, your name reminded me of a Leutnant Dieter Gerhardt who flew Me109s for JG1 and died in 1943 intercepting Allied Bombers
BF 109 is my favorite WW2 airplane, and Its nose spiral has always been one the most iconic and charming visual features of this incredible aircraft
I agree. Such an elegant looking piece of German engineering.
@@OthnielKenobi Hello There !
You should read the novel Grey Eagles. It's a great fiction and the Bf109 is the star of the story !
@@obiwankenoby6897 General Kenobi!
@@obiwankenoby6897
dont you have something better to do, than impersonating a fictional character?
I have been a military aviation buff since birth (my dad was a fighter pilot). I never knew the reason for the spirals and sometimes propeller hubs being painted black and white sectioned in four quadrants. Thank you for sharing this!
First
Well, the german aircraft spinners had an second interesting paint scheme. Not painted in four quadrants, but in three thirds. 1/3 white and 2/3 black. If the prop spins, our eyes see a totally black spinner for a longer time and a white one for a split time. That makes an even more disturbing effect on our brains. Try it, you will be surprised - I painted a Cessna 206 that way to warn my skydiver friends on the ground while approaching the aircraft.
Second
The spirals differ from Geschwader to Geschwader! So, if aircraft with the same aircraft signs were placed in the near proximity, they could be identified by their production number, but faster with the help of the different, wing assigned, spiral.
Hope the information helps as well!!
Prop clear?!
I remember reading years ago that when the original “Flying Tigers” became active in the Indo-China theatre that they would paint the cone or possibly part of the nose of the aircraft different colors each day so that the enemy would maybe notice the different colors of the aircraft and that was to make them think the FT’s had more P-40’s then they actually did have.
That's a major plot point in "God is My Co-Pilot," a book by one of the AVG pilots of the era.
@@R.J._Lewis General Robert L Scott the Author of God is my Co-Pilot the only active Duty USAAC officer to fly with the Tigers pretty much admitted he did that to basically fuck with the Japs minds.
@@R.J._Lewis read that in 6th Grade..Thank You😁😁😁
They used them because they look cool and make Bf-109G/K even more badass looking
Let me ask you something Do you know what came out of that hole in the middle of the Spinner!?
@@ericsahagun5344 usually 20mm cannon projectile, in some variants it was 30mm
my father was on a large airbase in India during WW2, they went on 24 hour alert. These planes of that era didn't start right up like a car, they had such thick oil that had to be heated up, etc. so they ran the planes 24/7 so they could take off in mere minutes. There would be so much noise that the crews wouldn't notice the noise after a while, there would be guys walking in to props regularly
Was this at RNAS Garuda (Coimbatore) with the: Royal Navy Fleet Air Arm?
My grandfather served there from 1943.
It was useful, of course, to protec the ground crew. But they are quite cool for us! And a nightmare for the people into plastic models, by other hand.
spot on, mate, these swirls are indeed a nightmare to paint!!
Try good spiral decals with decal softener. Gunze Mr. Mark Softer works fine.
There are good after-market mask sets available - you paint the whole spinner white or yellow, apply the spiral mask then repaint in the dark green or black and then remove the mask - et Voila! Some kits even include them with the masks they provide. But not many.
@@Juno58 solaset works good also.
That’s very interesting.
- I seem to also recall some commentary that there was a belief that the spiral or uneven flash effect contributed to a perception error from an adversary, giving the impression the aircraft was flying in an altered attitude thereby throwing off their aim.
Thank you for the excellent video.
That's a good assumption of what it was
Look up "Dazzle" camouflage.
@@txgunguy2766 "Dazel camouflage" was used by shipping to make ranging and depth perception much more difficult for u boats 🚤 and in nature the zebra 🦓 and the leopard 🐆 have been using this tactic for thousands of years...
In the late 70's while doing a long commercial cross-country flight for my rating I landed at an airport in New Jersey (US) for a short stop. As I was walking back out to my aircraft on the tarmac a woman walked into the spinning prop of her own Piper 140 which her husband had started prior to her arrival. It was a very noisy environment as tarmacs at large airports usually are and I guess she just wasn't paying attention but I really have no idea. It's something I've never been able to forget, try as I might.
She died ?
@@Mangoshake2021LOL!! Most likely. Your head just turned into apple sauce or your arm is chopped off.
@@Mangoshake2021 She did; this is gruesome but, it pulled her in and everything above her waist was pretty much shredded.
@@Gamble661 ehhh just terrible
Pffft. Women 🙄
At 2:35, you stated "on a windy day the propeller blades could spin in the wrong direction."
Are you suggesting that a direct-driven propeller will be turned by the force of wind while an aircraft is on the ground?
Do you really think that happens?
Please can you explain the mechanics of that and post a link or reference.
Thank you.
Well, if the wind is strong enough, it can rotate the whole plane! 🤣
I really appreciate how to the point this video was. It just told us the information, without excessive padding and fluff.
I think you have it all wrong. The spiral swirls were meant to signify that the pilot was also a licensed barber. Between flights, these skillful men sometimes gave airmen haircuts, using the propeller blades to perform the cutting.
And illegal barbers always left a bloody mess.
Truely, one of the best answers ive ever seen!
Makes sense
That's a myth, they were meant to fool the enemy into thinking they were harmless barbers, but they weren't barbers at all.
ANSWER: To prevent injuries/death from idiots who didn’t realize the propeller was on while the plane was parked
One small note - While a number of Aircraft with Spinner spirals did have black spinners, the most common colour was in cact a Very Dark Green - (Called Schwartgrun or Black-Green) which was, officially RLM 70 Schwartzgrun. It does appear almost black in a Black and White photo, it is that dark. But is is green. Sometimes if the Cowling was in an ID colour like yellow or white, this would be extended to the spinner and a thin Black or Black-green spiral painted on the spinner .... (like a photo negative of the usual...)
It's SCHWARZGRÜN
Not Schwartgrun but *Schwarzgrün*
I heard somewhere that Herman Goering thought that spirals on the nose would look cool, so…that’s what I heard.
It indicates that the engine is turning the right way. If the spiral wasn't there, the pilot may not have noticed this until he was several hundred feet in the air, and flying backwards
This is very important, because landing backwards is really, really hard.
@@beeble2003 Not only that, but the supercharger is sucking instead of blowing and that's very bad for the carburetor or fuel injectors.
On propellers with more than 2 blades even at idle its very hard to tell its turning and many got killed as a result. The threshold for persistence if vision is about 20hz. The spiral requires many rotations to see it move from middle to outside and falls well below 20hz so its easy to see. These are used today on jet engines for the same reason. They are dangerous even when the engine is not running because they windmil.
They look fantastic, and I really enjoy adding them to my model kits.
Just found your channel. Good job; straight to the point.
The notion of wind turning over one of these engines is ludicrous-
Agreed. A hurricane would be lucky to overcome the compression in 12 cylinders or more.
Agreed. That struck me as an erroneous statement too.
Right. From the footage I've seen of these planes being started, the ground crew guy is putting quite a bit of muscle into pulling the blade around to start it.
@@ThommyofThenn Exactly. The ground crewman would pull the propeller through however many blades( to get the oil circulated , I believe) and then he would hand crank the inertial starter. As you said, just by judging the amount of effort that's needed to pull the blades through a number of revolutions against the pistons, you can see, that even on a very windy day, air alone isn't going to turn the propeller in the manner described by the narrator.
@@localbod Also, what ground crewman isn't going to know the prop is turning when the engine is making enough noise that he can't hear himself think? This video is pure bunk.
These videos are thoroughly interesting - thank you for making them. One consistent thing I noticed though (and haven't seen any feedback yet, so I'll venture to say it) is the pronunciation of Messerschmitt (cf. Messher-smitt vs Messer-shmitt). Keep these coming!
I took it for granted that the spiral markings were for safety, but I had no idea that hardly anyone but the Germans had them. Interesting!
I thought it was just to look cool. You learn something new every day!
Also used to tune the speed governor with a stroboscope set at the right speed
Since german WW2 planes didnt have a speed governor, it was 100% reliant on the tune of the rpm gauge inside
It was already widely used in automobile industry of that time
I almost don't believe the spirals would have been uniformly painted enough for that to happen.
german precision?
I learned something new, I'd always thought the swirl was a way to highlight a situation when the props were out of balance.
I was told in the air force that they always had a reverse spiral, as standing in front of the aircraft waiting to marshall it away the forward spiral could draw you into it. Made sense to me..
Thanks, you taught me something new.
I read somewhere that a reason for spirls on the propeller spinners was that it would tend to throw off the aim of gunners shooting at the plane when attacking a bomber head on.
Why would you shoot at that tiny spot when you could shoot at the body of the plane?
@@CL-we8tn I think they did a study where they had people with rifles shooting at spinning spiral targets compared to people shooting at regular static bullseyes, and found that the folks shooting at spinning spirals missed the mark more often.
@@ice9snowflake187 ok, I'll buy that, but up in the air that prop is spinning so fast it looks like a solid color. Typically it's actually very difficult to see other aircraft when you're in the air as well. That is why we have radar and comms. Even taking radar out to only ground based for ww2 you'd still have comms and over enemy territory you'd have comms with each other.
I think spotting an enemy aircraft on your exact height would be crazy luck because the bodies were painted Grey, so above you, almost impossible to see, below you, the yellow wing would be visible, but that's only the Raf, what about all the other allies? No, i think this is a carry over from hand starting props, the spiral indicates direction and I think this was like the last ditch effort. If you land, if you can get up again, if your electrics are working but you must hand start, then apply hand here, spin in this direction and pray. IMO
@@CL-we8tn I don't disagree with any of that. Obviously, the idea that things would line up so that some gunner seeing the spiral might be a small percentage of chance less likely to hit the target, isn't that big a factor to be considered in the pilot's chance of survival, or luck, or whatever. Still, if the spiral helps at all, it's better than not having it. Giving the ground crew something to determine rotation, and the direction of the propeller's rotation, makes more practical sense. I don't see how useful it would be to a guy standing behind the propeller, though.
I always understood that the spirals on the hub produced a hypnotic effect on the gunners trying to shoot down German airplanes especially the small front the Me 109G and the Fw 190-8 or the Fw 190-D9 offered to the allies. Personally I don't think it to scare off the birds because of high speed and altitudes...
Good idea! 😎👍
I'd always thought that the Germans had only one purpose in mind with these spirals: to make future modellers' life miserable, particularlly mine.
I suck at painting these things!
Take very thin masking tape, and carefully wrap it around the spinner. Then spray paint.
You are not the only one. Thank God for Tamiya tape.
Great vid .. learning WWII history for decades and learned something new and interesting. Thx
As mentioned elsewhere some spinners were not painted in a spiral but in segments.
Another reason I read they painted the spinners like that was it was thought it would throw off bomber's gunners aim, making them harder to focus on, when the fighters were attacking them.
Unlikely. The gunners would be opening up on an attacking fighter at a range of several hundred yards.The spinner's spiral would be invisible. Not to mention closing speeds of up to 600 mph.
At last an explanation for that attractive oddity! Thank you.
Great video! But I’m finding it hard to imagine a prop attached to a BMW radial or any other type could be spun reverse wise by ground wind speeds. And yes, I’ve hand-thrown props. The only possible way I could see this happening is if pitch settings had been changed. But what does this have to do with fuelling, unless it’s an isolation? Could be priming but then there would be resistance from the engine.
I'd like more information on this too because that wind would have to be blowing like a hurricane to overcome the resistance in a bmw 801 or a Db 605 (especially if oil is in the cylinders) . the comments in the video about fueling threw me off too.
@@bryantbridgewaters3977 I know that some constant-speed hubs can freewheel. But a big prop spinning is going to be a hazard, powered or not. What it has to do with fuel escapes me?
@@ThreenaddiesRexMegistusWhen the propeller is free-wheel is that being airborne and flying?
@@bryantbridgewaters3977My When the narrator stated that, it sounded like BS to me.
@@localbod I felt the same way too. Probably a prime example of: "Not everything you hear on the internet is true."
Never knew why they did it. You learn something new every day.
I had no idea that this is what these were for, but always wondered. Thanks for explaining it.
I wonder if these were the same reasons why on American fighter planes, each half of the nose cone was a different color from the other (in this case, on half black and the other half white)
Same reason we used to paint tail rotor blades red and yellow, on our helicopters ...to make people aware when they were spinning. I've never seen it but heard enough credible stories to imagine it's not very pleasant
Solid!
Top KEK!
Peace be with you.
The cap on the top of a rocket is a nose cone. The aerodynamic fairing covering the propellor hub on an airplane is not a nose cone, it is a spinner.
1:32 respect to the dog scrambling to intercept enemy fighters (:
Makes sense to me, especially about modern jets...the fan blades inside the turbine shell hides the motion of the blades quite well, something to indicate motion is a good thing.
You can feel a Jet...They vibrate the air hard.
@@brokeandtiredat the back. But not in the front. Especially not when they are running idle to just power the plane on a platform.
Allways wonder why...now I know the answer...great vid!!!!
Prop hubs and turbine hubs are painted with spirals for the safety of the ground crew and in addition in modern passenger or transport planes for the pilots to look out of the window of the cockpit to check the engine status (in case of an loss of feedback in the board systems). Spiral was chosen since this geometry can be identified as moving over the whole RPM range. Lines or other shapes placed at the same angular rotation to the axis can appear stationary despite turning very fast. Especially in low light conditions, its much easier to look at the hub and see a spinning spiral than to try to see the moving prop blades or discern if the blades of the turbine are stationary or are a uniformly mass due to high RPM. (in regards to moving or not moving, if you are a passenger on your next drive on the highway, check the rims of some cars, you will see some turning forward, some backward and some looking like they are standing still, all depending on the rim geometry and the speed of the vehicle => rotation speed.)
My favourite aircraft, the Me 109, second is the Fw190d9 and a very close third, the Fw 190 A8 series.
The FW190 was far superior to anything th eBrits had.
German rocketry, - NO CONTEST.
@@John-nc4bl and yet the Germans lost the war.
The term for the 'nose cone' is 'spinner'. The markings are referred to as spirals.
Thankyou. Looks like I'm not the only one annoyed by this.
I recently subscribed and appreciate your educational videos. Thanks for clearing this up for me.
It’s surprising how many people have fatally walked into a spinning propeller. At full power, the prop becomes almost invisible. It would make perfect sense that it was intended as an “attention getter”.
A famous case was Australian professional golfer Jack Newton, who was a top contender for the majors over ten years, when he was nearly killed by walking into the spinning propeller of a Cessna, in 1983. He survived, but with crippling injuries.
by the same logic, if you can't SEE the prop (i.e. it is NOT standing still) that should be an obvious sign not to get close to it.
Well done!
The wind would spin the propeller in the wrong direction???????? Not a real good grasp of a piston engines.
Thanks for the great video. I always suspected the reason.
I remember reading somewhere years ago that the spiral put off allied gunners in bombers from accurately gauging speed and distance as the fighters closed in on the bombers. Something to do with tricking the eyes , or something, so they couldn't get a proper aim on the fighter in the sights.
Myth. That was US gunners trying to explain why they shot down (relatively) so few German fighters.... "Aww... those spirals put me off my aim... (Not that no-one taught him deflection shooting - unless he was a duck hunter!) They fact they did get a number was largely due to the volume of fire in the "Bomber Box" formations. One German fighter going down usually generated about 7 claims from gunners in 7 aircraft! And all 7 were all shooting at him so which one scored the hit is always debatable
With a closing speed around 500mph and attacker and attack both moving getting a hit from a bomber gunner is difficult in the extreme. Question as to lack of kills from the gunners are usually asked by people that have never tried it.
@@brettpeacock9116 Rule of thumb is fighters approx 1 out of every 3 "confirmed" claims is accurate; bomber gunners 1 out of every 10. Massive, massive overclaiming (not necessarily in bad faith) was absolutely endemic in every nation and branch.
wow thanks man i love your videos they are perfect
Messer Schmitt. Mess-erschmitt.
Not Meschersmitt.
As a WWII aviation buff, I don't know how I didn't know this. Very interesting!
I always believed it was a crude substitute for a tachometer that the ground crew could use to tell if the 2nd ,3rd or fourth engine had started started as you wouldn't hear it over the sound of the first engine.
As a former Navy Aircrewman on P-3's , one thing drummed into you from day 1: NEVER WALK THROUGH THE ARC OF THE PROP!! Whether on the ground and static or any other way. The prop always wins!
Didn't we have radar by then to identify friendly aircraft?
Radar back then was crude and did not have ACS
@@tedhubertcrusio372 really because according to Dan Carlin they had Japanese submarines on radar off the coast of California. Ww2
@CL-we8tn You're thinking of IFF; RADAR can only tell you that an object is there, not what that object is.
@@AuratusCricetus yes, radar, not what but where, but I think it was only ground to air and I know for a fact underwater. Dan Carlin loves telling the story, it was the highlight of ww2 where he grew up, think Los Angeles.
@@CL-we8tn For a fact, radar doesn't work underwater. Air to air, ground to air, ground to ground and air to ground radars were well established in WW2. You mean sonar.
Second fact: you weren't born back then, so you're not part of "we". Or did you serve your country in WW2 ?
Third fact: Brits had radar before "you" did. They also invented counter-measures.
And who the F is Dan Carlin ?
Good Video. Thanks
i guess it was for ground crew to stay clear and enemies to space out and let their guard down.
Nah, it was to hypnotize allied pilots
Now that was an interesting very informative, I didn't know any of that
The same reason jet engines have them on the turbine boss
Interesting. Subscribed and belled.
Awesome thanks 👍
I always thought it was used for distance between friendly planes
Makes sense, great video
Holy shit, the charisma of this narrator is enough to carry this 10 second video through to the elongated 4:35 wow thank you
After a few minutes watching this I realized it was so the ground crew could see that the props were spinning. Excellent idea.
Subbed & Liked…just enjoying
Thanks interesting video.
Never think about..allways learn something New. Thanks 🙂
the spiral was to throw off the center of the plane. making it harder to aim at
Thanks for the x2 speed feature youtube 👍🏼
Great video thanks!
Learn something new. Thanks.
Some great film clips. Love those spirals!
A Porsche mechanic I once knew in Montreal told me that his father had flown Bf109s, and he claimed that the spiral was to confuse gunners as the optical illusion was distracting.
Spiral marking to show movement was my first thought. It makes sense for safety reasons.
Honestly, if I "knew" this before I've forgotten it: VERY informative!!!
I always assumed it had something to do with Hypnotoad ™.
Colored tips on propellers were also a great idea.
Never thought of it that way.... the ground crew is totally important.
My dad witnessed an accident on an Airforce base in the 1960's.
A civilian airliner (propeller driven) was preparing to transport a load of solders to Vietnam. The crew realized they were missing some paperwork and the young (early 20's) volunteered to go get it.
She stepped off the plane then walked into the propeller of the running engine.
There wasn't much left of her body, and he said the scene in Raider's of the lost Ark, wasn't nearly bloody enough.
It was quite messy.
I heard that some Vietnamese pows were walked into the prop as punishment.
@@thomashesselgrave6898 It would be an extremely stupid way to punish someone.
Any prop strike can badly damage the engine.
In case of any sort of prop strike the engine needs to be disassembled and checked.
Sometimes you hear something like that and while it might sound plausible if you don't know any better, if you do you can say right away that it's bullshit.
I know a guy who hit a deer with his airplane a Cessna 172. He wasn't going very fast, maybe 15 MPH, and only the propeller hit the deer. It was not good for the deer but it was also very bad for the airplane. The propeller was bent and the engine suffered quite a bit of damage.
It also nearly tore the engine off it's mounds.
Executing a POW in that way would be very messy and it would also likely render the plane unflyable.
Fascinating - thanks.
And that's why propellers have paint on the ends.
I did 21 years of US naval aviation, 12 years in turbo props. So I have been around lots of whirling death. Besides being an indication of a turning prop, I wonder if it also had anything to do with driving birds away as well to reduce bird strikes?
A friend serving as an airplane mechanic in Vietnam was hit by a propeller, was seriously injured but lived. Sadly, his pain level was through the roof for the rest of his life.
I always assumed it was for intimidation factor. Very interesting video!
I thought it was just whimsy as a design, or maybe to tell the spin direction. Good video.
Man: *gets hypnotized
Man: *walks into propellers
Great video