I just bought both of your books. Thank you so much for sharing such amazing knowledge with us. You're definitely the person I want to learn about knife steel from.
Excellent. Thank you. Do you plan to update your edge retention chart with some of the newer steels since you last composed it?…..It’s the best chart on planet and I use it almost daily….thank you young man!
I've been working with metal >50 years, but am relatively new to this topic. I really appreciate your attention to detail. S'pose that makes me a nerd too! 😉
Fantastic information, I've not ever pulled the trigger on some Damasteel as like you pointed out, its kind of expensive for an experiment. At least they should throw you some for proving out that its worth the money :)
Need them to test sm100 honestly I don’t know why it’s not used much I have one made and it’s great but have really abused it much but from normal use it seems to hold up better than almost well any steel I have had like no chips or denting at all even my 3v knives have some chips very slight but there there
With regards to the discussion on hold times, that is teh perfect illustration between "science" and "engineering". The science (how things work) may suggest a procedure for the ideal, but engineering has to factor in real world factors, like less than accurate furnace temperature controls. lol
you should really do those tests making ladder patterning with a single steel, but a lower carbide one like AEB-L or even 12c27 that relies more on hardness than carbide content for edge retention. as you noted it doesn't look like you can boost toughness much by layering with a tougher but lower edge retention steel. but if the wavy layering effect can actually increase edge retention as it appeared to in your previous testing, it might be possible to simply increase that attribute alone without affecting toughness. my guess is that steels that rely more on their carbides for edge retention(and I'd put 154cm in that category), won't benefit from it as much as the carbides themselves are already filling that role. on the other hand, I don't see how a single steel would have a difference in hardness between layers.
I've used a couple of different patterns from Damasteel and they both showed those straight layers on either side of the billet like the Hugin pattern. I wonder if it's to do with how they're laying down the powder, or some other constraint with this method of production?
@@KnifeSteelNerds I don't think they are overcharging for the product. I just think its expensive. But for me if I was dropping that kind of $$$ on a billet i would probably go for a nice fancy tool steel that I can't normally find or something
Things just need to be a bit closer Closer recipe steels or Closer layering I enjoy the esthetics of the damasteel but prefer it to be an outer cladding with a solid core of consistency
I know this isn't related to this video directly but I wanted to ask for your advice. I'm looking for the best possible steel for a fillet knife. I'm getting a bit confused looking at all the options and what not. I was thinking magna cut or maybe s30v, but I'd love to know your opinion. I'm looking for corrosion resistance, edge retention and the ability to flex (I know that has more to do with grind then steel from what I've seen)
Hi friend. Just as a metallurgy enthusiast I wanted to say that a filled knife does well with a good carbon steel so I was thinking maybe c13x17 molybdenum if you just want a single steel. That's pretty popular for kitchen knives because of its razor edge and edge retention but offers very reasonable stain resistance otherwise if you read this and want to talk about it, hit me up. 😊
Hey Larrin! Great video and great research for a lot of people to have access to! Question for you, good sir. Do you have any comments/thoughts/tests on the quality of the newest "cheap damascus" by brands like Civivi/Oknife? I personally just got a few of them because I couldn't believe how cheap they were even with "damascus" blades to test myself. I'm so used to warning new knife people away from ebay trash damascus that it is suprising the prices they are offering in general. After a month of use, all i can say is I have been thoroughly impressed with the edge/durability of their steel. I got the baby banter in carbon fiber/damascus. Then wanted it sexier and a bit heavier so i got some black flytanium scales. (Has become my new fidget toy lol) But now I've been finding myself using it just as much if not more than my HQ knives i will rotate through. I'm sure their recipe is very proprietary, so please don't get in trouble with any information you may want to give lol i Think you could do a cool video talking about maybe what has made modern damascus so decent/accessible. From my experience, I'm discovering civivi's has about the same maintenance needed for the edge as like d2 or 20cv. Ive resharpened fully only once, but i hone/strop it every day after use. We could go on for hours about this stuff so hope you can give some insight Keep it up!!
Obviously Civivi isn’t making the Damascus themselves. I don’t know anything about it so first would be for someone to say what Damascus it is and that would help in forming an opinion.
@KnifeSteelNerds That's what i assumed as well, but It's not a bad thing. Whomever is making it seems to have broken the barrier on getting " decent quality" damascus available reasonably to the general knife public instead of being a mythical/money term to high end blade snobs who are fully aware of how tedious it is to produce. I remember seeing on a forum that someone made a statement of cicivi being "9Cr18MoV core along with the claim that it performs like 440C." Not sure how accurate that is but all in all, it's a really cool thing that we're finally at the point to have the words damascus/ high quality/affordable all in the same sentence, but be in a positive connotation lol appreciate you boss. Keep on keepin on! Loved the book.
Its been claimed that these steels are not powdered Metallurgy but electro slag or spray form. But no factory in China is currently making powdered Metallurgy Damascus. Even cjrb has a steel they say is powdered Metallurgy but it is not. I'm not saying that is bad, but thats likely how its cheaper.
If your 20cv is about the same as all that other stuff, it must be like 58rc give or take. Not uncommon or perhaps its grain growth from excessive hold times or perhaps using too low a pressure in the quench? Or maybe they didn't use deep freeze. Or maybe a burnt edge.
Hi Larrin. Your last video about damascus where you found out that damascus does provide a serration effect got me curious with something, specially the 1095 and nickel. As a fan of The Witcher games, silver swords got me curious. They are used against monsters born of magic because they don't take cut damage from common steels. I am sure that many of your Patreons are also fans of the series and they would like to see the performance of a damascus blade of pure silver, specially for a Halloween episode, maybe. The silver blades in the lore of The Witcher are steel core with a thick silver plate of silver by fandom wiki info, but it doesn't specify how it is plated or the specific thickness. Maybe a damascus of common steel and silver would be an actual option? I don't know, but I hpe you find these propositions interesting enough. Thanks for your great work so far!!
Silver is very soft so it doesn’t provide performance advantages when plating. Unless you count silver plated butter knives. But with the high cost I don’t see anyone using it for Damascus.
@@KnifeSteelNerds oh, I don't imagine someone would. It is more of a fantasy-meets-real kind of thing. For the fantasy nerds usage in the "actuaaaallyyyyy" arguments 😅
they're steels of at least 5% alloy content. the X is to easier discern them from other steel types like plain carbon, HSS (S-series) and low-alloy carburizing steels.
@@KnifeSteelNerds 1.2379 - D2/X 153 CrMoV 12; 1.2344 ~H13/X 40 CrMoV 5-1; 1.2363 - A2/ X 100 CrMoV 5. for the other types 1.0601 C60 (like 1060), 1.0503 & 1.1730 both C45 (you can get the same steel with another number if it has higher purity, comes in hot-rolled or pickled state etc.), 1.3343 S 6-5-2 (HSS, other S-series is mild steel like S235J, former St37), 1.7131 16 MnCr 5 - carburizing steel. I was wrong about the stainless steels, seems they carry X designation too.
I just bought both of your books. Thank you so much for sharing such amazing knowledge with us. You're definitely the person I want to learn about knife steel from.
Excellent. Thank you. Do you plan to update your edge retention chart with some of the newer steels since you last composed it?…..It’s the best chart on planet and I use it almost daily….thank you young man!
I've been working with metal >50 years, but am relatively new to this topic. I really appreciate your attention to detail. S'pose that makes me a nerd too! 😉
Fantastic information, I've not ever pulled the trigger on some Damasteel as like you pointed out, its kind of expensive for an experiment. At least they should throw you some for proving out that its worth the money :)
As always, very cool stuff. Thanks for everything you contribute to the knife community.
Thanks!
Highly informative and truly fascinating. Thank you so much for your contributions to the sciences.
Wery informative! Weiting review for Damacore!
Thank you for perfect video. 👍🇨🇿👏
Very informative! Thank you!🤙🏼
Thanks for sharing.
Love me some Damasteel.
Please do a video on Woots Damascus!!!
Can you talk about the damacore next?
Need them to test sm100 honestly I don’t know why it’s not used much I have one made and it’s great but have really abused it much but from normal use it seems to hold up better than almost well any steel I have had like no chips or denting at all even my 3v knives have some chips very slight but there there
Thank you for the tutorial
With regards to the discussion on hold times, that is teh perfect illustration between "science" and "engineering". The science (how things work) may suggest a procedure for the ideal, but engineering has to factor in real world factors, like less than accurate furnace temperature controls. lol
you should really do those tests making ladder patterning with a single steel, but a lower carbide one like AEB-L or even 12c27 that relies more on hardness than carbide content for edge retention. as you noted it doesn't look like you can boost toughness much by layering with a tougher but lower edge retention steel. but if the wavy layering effect can actually increase edge retention as it appeared to in your previous testing, it might be possible to simply increase that attribute alone without affecting toughness.
my guess is that steels that rely more on their carbides for edge retention(and I'd put 154cm in that category), won't benefit from it as much as the carbides themselves are already filling that role. on the other hand, I don't see how a single steel would have a difference in hardness between layers.
I've used a couple of different patterns from Damasteel and they both showed those straight layers on either side of the billet like the Hugin pattern. I wonder if it's to do with how they're laying down the powder, or some other constraint with this method of production?
Yes it is how they construct the billets with powder that controls that. I don’t know if Damasteel considers that proprietary so I didn’t explain it.
Great Video! With the Knowledge of steel that you have, I would be curious about your go-to way of sharpening your knives.
Yeah. Its crazy how expensive damasteel is. 💀💀💀
As always, thanks for all the work you put into this!
I think the price is reasonable, really. It just costs a lot to make.
@@KnifeSteelNerds I don't think they are overcharging for the product. I just think its expensive.
But for me if I was dropping that kind of $$$ on a billet i would probably go for a nice fancy tool steel that I can't normally find or something
Dr Thomas ---Can you provide the numbers for Magnacut in regard to toughness, edge retention, and corrosion resistance. Thanks
Is Damascus steel more for aesthetic what does a better edge
Things just need to be a bit closer
Closer recipe steels or
Closer layering
I enjoy the esthetics of the damasteel but prefer it to be an outer cladding with a solid core of consistency
I know this isn't related to this video directly but I wanted to ask for your advice. I'm looking for the best possible steel for a fillet knife. I'm getting a bit confused looking at all the options and what not. I was thinking magna cut or maybe s30v, but I'd love to know your opinion. I'm looking for corrosion resistance, edge retention and the ability to flex (I know that has more to do with grind then steel from what I've seen)
Hi friend. Just as a metallurgy enthusiast I wanted to say that a filled knife does well with a good carbon steel so I was thinking maybe c13x17 molybdenum if you just want a single steel. That's pretty popular for kitchen knives because of its razor edge and edge retention but offers very reasonable stain resistance otherwise if you read this and want to talk about it, hit me up. 😊
MagnaCut in conjuction with fine tungsten-rhenium-cobalt carbide?
Is thor damasteel just a different pattern?
damasteel is one of my favorite steels, and it's good to know that it's a pretty good blade steel despite being a primarily aesthetic choice.
Hey Larrin! Great video and great research for a lot of people to have access to! Question for you, good sir. Do you have any comments/thoughts/tests on the quality of the newest "cheap damascus" by brands like Civivi/Oknife? I personally just got a few of them because I couldn't believe how cheap they were even with "damascus" blades to test myself. I'm so used to warning new knife people away from ebay trash damascus that it is suprising the prices they are offering in general. After a month of use, all i can say is I have been thoroughly impressed with the edge/durability of their steel. I got the baby banter in carbon fiber/damascus. Then wanted it sexier and a bit heavier so i got some black flytanium scales. (Has become my new fidget toy lol) But now I've been finding myself using it just as much if not more than my HQ knives i will rotate through. I'm sure their recipe is very proprietary, so please don't get in trouble with any information you may want to give lol i Think you could do a cool video talking about maybe what has made modern damascus so decent/accessible. From my experience, I'm discovering civivi's has about the same maintenance needed for the edge as like d2 or 20cv. Ive resharpened fully only once, but i hone/strop it every day after use. We could go on for hours about this stuff so hope you can give some insight Keep it up!!
Obviously Civivi isn’t making the Damascus themselves. I don’t know anything about it so first would be for someone to say what Damascus it is and that would help in forming an opinion.
@KnifeSteelNerds That's what i assumed as well, but It's not a bad thing. Whomever is making it seems to have broken the barrier on getting " decent quality" damascus available reasonably to the general knife public instead of being a mythical/money term to high end blade snobs who are fully aware of how tedious it is to produce. I remember seeing on a forum that someone made a statement of cicivi being "9Cr18MoV core along with the claim that it performs like 440C." Not sure how accurate that is but all in all, it's a really cool thing that we're finally at the point to have the words damascus/ high quality/affordable all in the same sentence, but be in a positive connotation lol appreciate you boss. Keep on keepin on! Loved the book.
Its been claimed that these steels are not powdered Metallurgy but electro slag or spray form. But no factory in China is currently making powdered Metallurgy Damascus.
Even cjrb has a steel they say is powdered Metallurgy but it is not.
I'm not saying that is bad, but thats likely how its cheaper.
If your 20cv is about the same as all that other stuff, it must be like 58rc give or take. Not uncommon or perhaps its grain growth from excessive hold times or perhaps using too low a pressure in the quench? Or maybe they didn't use deep freeze. Or maybe a burnt edge.
It would be difficult to get grain growth with 20CV. So much carbide.
How does MagnaCut damascus smell? Laaaarrin??
Hi Larrin. Your last video about damascus where you found out that damascus does provide a serration effect got me curious with something, specially the 1095 and nickel. As a fan of The Witcher games, silver swords got me curious. They are used against monsters born of magic because they don't take cut damage from common steels. I am sure that many of your Patreons are also fans of the series and they would like to see the performance of a damascus blade of pure silver, specially for a Halloween episode, maybe. The silver blades in the lore of The Witcher are steel core with a thick silver plate of silver by fandom wiki info, but it doesn't specify how it is plated or the specific thickness. Maybe a damascus of common steel and silver would be an actual option? I don't know, but I hpe you find these propositions interesting enough. Thanks for your great work so far!!
Silver is very soft so it doesn’t provide performance advantages when plating. Unless you count silver plated butter knives. But with the high cost I don’t see anyone using it for Damascus.
@@KnifeSteelNerds oh, I don't imagine someone would. It is more of a fantasy-meets-real kind of thing. For the fantasy nerds usage in the "actuaaaallyyyyy" arguments 😅
Whats with european steels having X in the name
X is the coolest letter. Even Elon Musk thinks so.
they're steels of at least 5% alloy content. the X is to easier discern them from other steel types like plain carbon, HSS (S-series) and low-alloy carburizing steels.
@@verdigrissirgidrev4152 thankyou
Interesting. What are some examples?
@@KnifeSteelNerds 1.2379 - D2/X 153 CrMoV 12; 1.2344 ~H13/X 40 CrMoV 5-1; 1.2363 - A2/ X 100 CrMoV 5. for the other types 1.0601 C60 (like 1060), 1.0503 & 1.1730 both C45 (you can get the same steel with another number if it has higher purity, comes in hot-rolled or pickled state etc.), 1.3343 S 6-5-2 (HSS, other S-series is mild steel like S235J, former St37), 1.7131 16 MnCr 5 - carburizing steel. I was wrong about the stainless steels, seems they carry X designation too.
Rwl34 is not the same as ats 34,or 154cm, rwl34 is the equivalent of 154cpm!
is rwl34 not closer to cpm154 than ats34/154cm? due to the powder metallurgy?
RWL34 is closer to CPM-154
Is Damacore has better toughness than Vanax SC ?
Dude I like you! You’re cool keep up the good work!!!
Thanks!
Magnacore soon?! :D
Thanks so much Larrin!
🤜🔪🤛