I've been watching a lot of your videos, obviously this is from a while ago so i don't know where things are now compared to when you made this video. That being said I'll be purchasing your current products for two reasons, one you have a great product and two, you have integrity which is extremely valuable. I'm a 61 year old mason, I'm proud to see things I've built still standing the test of time for over 4 decades. You did the right thing in my opinion. Hopefully you're reaping the rewards from that and then some.
I appreciate that, and I have the Evolution Two cooling system and the Evolution Two cooling fans for Doghouse fan shrouds, and early fan shrouds, with alternator and 12 volt generator ('67 and later) support. Coming soon with be early VW with the 6 volt 90 mm generator, along with Porsche 356/912 support. Things are looking up, and after this video, I had to shut down the business for a while. About 8 or 9 months, but we are back in business.
@andrigsaircooledtechnology yes I've been to your website, I mentioned this the other day through another video of yours that my plan is to use your full setup on my 2110 and put the doghouse shroud with your fan from that engine on a stock 1500. The 1500 is in a 68 Baja I'm getting ready for my grand daughter. It will be the car she learns to drive in and to drive to school.
I appreciate the honesty, and I commend you for not selling something you can't guarantee always works. That setback is awful. There is hope. Your work is really important. I do hope you re-consider abandoning the fan that fits in stock type shrouds though. The number of potential customers for that is massive. There are a folks who will not be able to change their shroud in their current build (and those who need to use the stock heater boxes). I think there might be other solutions to the 3-d printing problem and the 3-d printing space is always improving. This will take more work and time of course and bootstrapping that is really hard. Please consider a gofundme type campaign to keep your business going, both for the Evolution 2 and the Evolution 1 and the suspension setups. You might be surprised at the number of people that want to see advances in the VW community. Right now the amount of innovation in the VW space is really thin (and rare), and I think your work is really beneficial both to your customers and the community as a whole. Praying for better days.
Thanks for the encouragement. I have been thinking about a GoFundMe campaign as an option. We will see. I really have loved doing this work, so hopefully I can keep this going. Sometimes as an startup you take some measured risks, and they just don't pay off. There are some options with different materials within 3D printing, but they are way more expensive, but I may do the Evolution Two fan shroud, and experiment on the side with a more expensive material and test again, as I do have some of the next material I would try sitting on the shelf that I purchased for another product idea.
It's unfortunate what happened, but this is why I do the torture testing that I do. I want to make sure what I'm selling will stand up to long term abuse without issue.
Sorry to hear about the bad news, but good to see that you've kept your integrity and done the right thing. Looking even more forward to seeing the Evolution shrouds when they're ready.
Yes, that was my inspiration. That engine is the Type 547, and Porsche developed it for Formula 1 racing, but they told the designer that it also needed to fit in the 356. It's quite the engine. It took me quite a while to figure out how to do the same thing using a standard VW alternator or generator. Like a lot of times in my life, as I was struggling to visualize how I might do it, I had a dream about it, and that morning I had my first prototype design in a couple of hours, and I was test fitting the first prototype in a couple of days.
I remember Audi had an alternator that operated like a thermal fan clutch? Or something like a bicycle freespeed assembly. I only remember because they went bad with a horrible sound. But when working reduced parasitic drag and re-engaged when rpms permitted.
Just some input, maybe have the fans with two RPM ratings. I am building a street bug that won't see high rpms. At least you got honesty the best policy. Test them at a lower rpm and then rate them for street stockers. Then sell em, just a suggestion
Yeah, that is certainly one option. I am going to just go with the stronger geometry at this point. I can forssee a situation where someone is using on an engine then tend to keep at low RPM, but all it takes is a missed shift, or some other accident that revs the engine way higher than is intended and boom you have no fan anymore. I appreciate the suggestion though, and it is something I considered, but I would personally feel more comfortable with just knowing that it blow up on people even under circumstances that are out of the ordinary, like an accidental revving of the engine.
Seems you are not interested at all in selling fans to people that will NEVER run their engines above 5k revs, but only to a small group of "would be racers". Odd, because who revs above 6k dont gives a shit for whatever parts needs regular replacement. Smart guy in techs, not so much in real life. My advice to your "catastrophe": sell the project to a businessman: you will pay your debts, keeps your hobby and make someone rich in VW aftermarket...
Great product you have. Question, moving the extra air and higher pressure is there an increase in sound or noise that is noticeable at idle or at increased RPM? I remember the mods back in the old day where rodders would remove the fan clutch on V8's for a solid fan. It sounded like a freight liner truck.
Actually, the sound is basically the same at lower RPM. At high RPM, the airflow is so high, that it does create a high pitched sound that is very noticeable. When I tested the Evolution Two fan on my test engine, I actually had a couple of guys run over because they thought I was running a blown engine, and they wanted to see it, but it was just the sound of the fan. This was when I was doing 8,000 RPM tests. Generally, for just normal driving, even at higher RPM levels (like 5,000 to 6,000 RPM), the sound is not very noticeable.
I have 2 of the fans. I put one on my formula vee race car and have at least 8 race weekends on it. I race at between 5 to 6k rpm with no issues. The motor went in PA last summer when oil temp hit 300 degrees and it stood up to the heat. I have the new sleeve but I bolted it on the original way. I am going to still use it. Not sure why these broke on other cars but mie is just fine.
I wouldn't leave it bolted on with the original mount. The updated mounting system will prevent failures. Not that many of the fans failed with the original mount, but it's likely that it will fail eventually unless you use the new mount I sent everyone. I recently had someone like you, who never put on the new mount after a couple of years of running the fan with no issues contact me, and he was doing some maintenance on his engine, and he inspected his fan, and it had a small crack in the area of the mount. He was fortunate not to have it fail while driving, and fortunate that I still had one I could send him, which was a fan I used for testing.
Have you done any test with agressive down shifting, with some imperfect throttle matching followed by agressive throttle and revs? Most fans fail with rapid changes in speed. These are hard to reproduce on a test stand. I have seen porsche fans fail under those conditions.
I did that on all the fans. I would Rev to 8,000 RPM and immediately close the throttle and kill the engine. No problems with that. The reason it can easily survive that kind of test is because the weight is so much less. A lot less inertial energy. The Evolution Two fan is 81% lighter so there is 81% less energy involved in slowing it down and speeding it up.
Yes, I understand that. Of course, if it flies apart at times, it doesn't really matter about the heat cycles. Having said that, the material that I printed these from can handle the heat cycles without an issue.
Yeah, other people have suggested that too. I did consider it, but it bothers me to sell something that might break if you accidentally over rev your engine. The Evolution Two will just work for everyone. Plus, I'm positive that someone would purchase the Evolution One without understanding the disclaimer and then be really upset when their breaks. I don't think it's worth the potential customer problems and potentially tarnishing the business.
Yes good afternoon I am extremely interested in your Evolution two fan system I tried building my own fan with blades about 40% larger than stock unfortunately the total weight of it is 1420 G as compared to 1164 G if you are selling your Evolution to fan system I would like to find out what the cost is and the availability is I have tried contacting you multiple times but not sure if I was successful your response would be greatly appreciated thank you
Sorry for my lack of responsiveness. I have things shut down right now, but the good news is I am under contract (again) to sell our house, and to purchase our new home, where I will also be moving the business. Once I'm moved I'll get the manufacturing of the new Evolution Two cooling system and fans going again. Right now, it look like we will move in the middle of July now, so probably have things going in August.
@@andrigsaircooledtechnology thank you for your quick response I greatly appreciate it I completely understand your predicament and the difficulties that you had with the fans this car is been a 20-year long restoration it's a 1968 Karmann Ghia convertible the motor is a 2165 with 44 IDF Weber's an aluminum Center Mount shroud that I put veins in the transaxle has been waiting 15 years without oil in it and the front beam is completed I am now finishing the replacement of the pan halves and hope to soon finish the Bodywork I think your fan would make a great Finishing Touch to my engine both in style and Cooling I wish you good fortune in the future and hope to hear from you soon thank you
You can't injection mold a squirrel cage centrifugal fan, unless you do it in two pieces, and then sonic weld the pieces. The weld would never survive, as it will be very weak. My Evolution Two fan does survive the high RPM testing.
The weight of the two metal parts would create a lot of stress on the blades. The blades are only 1.6 mm thick, and bonding steel or another metal with a composite plastic is difficult with such thin materials, and the bonding material itself would not only have to be able to deal with the stresses but have a very high heat deflection temperature without the bond becoming weak. I really haven't found anything that can do that.
It's a shame about your setback and I think building the EVO 2 cooling system to order could be the best option in the long term because, you won't have the risk of ordering more materials and making more than you end up selling. Also the group "Ruined VW’s - purist not allowed" could be a good place to advertise you Karman Ghia for sale because it's modified (Ruined from a purist prospective) and you mite even gain a few customers and order s for your EVO 2 cooling system and the other products you make and sale.
I've been watching a lot of your videos, obviously this is from a while ago so i don't know where things are now compared to when you made this video.
That being said I'll be purchasing your current products for two reasons, one you have a great product and two, you have integrity which is extremely valuable.
I'm a 61 year old mason, I'm proud to see things I've built still standing the test of time for over 4 decades.
You did the right thing in my opinion. Hopefully you're reaping the rewards from that and then some.
I appreciate that, and I have the Evolution Two cooling system and the Evolution Two cooling fans for Doghouse fan shrouds, and early fan shrouds, with alternator and 12 volt generator ('67 and later) support. Coming soon with be early VW with the 6 volt 90 mm generator, along with Porsche 356/912 support. Things are looking up, and after this video, I had to shut down the business for a while. About 8 or 9 months, but we are back in business.
@andrigsaircooledtechnology yes I've been to your website, I mentioned this the other day through another video of yours that my plan is to use your full setup on my 2110 and put the doghouse shroud with your fan from that engine on a stock 1500.
The 1500 is in a 68 Baja I'm getting ready for my grand daughter. It will be the car she learns to drive in and to drive to school.
@@goldentrunnell7450 Yes, I remember now. Thanks again, I really appreciate the support.
I appreciate the honesty, and I commend you for not selling something you can't guarantee always works. That setback is awful. There is hope. Your work is really important. I do hope you re-consider abandoning the fan that fits in stock type shrouds though. The number of potential customers for that is massive. There are a folks who will not be able to change their shroud in their current build (and those who need to use the stock heater boxes). I think there might be other solutions to the 3-d printing problem and the 3-d printing space is always improving. This will take more work and time of course and bootstrapping that is really hard. Please consider a gofundme type campaign to keep your business going, both for the Evolution 2 and the Evolution 1 and the suspension setups. You might be surprised at the number of people that want to see advances in the VW community. Right now the amount of innovation in the VW space is really thin (and rare), and I think your work is really beneficial both to your customers and the community as a whole. Praying for better days.
Thanks for the encouragement. I have been thinking about a GoFundMe campaign as an option. We will see. I really have loved doing this work, so hopefully I can keep this going. Sometimes as an startup you take some measured risks, and they just don't pay off. There are some options with different materials within 3D printing, but they are way more expensive, but I may do the Evolution Two fan shroud, and experiment on the side with a more expensive material and test again, as I do have some of the next material I would try sitting on the shelf that I purchased for another product idea.
Sorry to hear the bad news for you and the VW Aircooled community. Hang in there, two steps forward and one step back.
It's unfortunate what happened, but this is why I do the torture testing that I do. I want to make sure what I'm selling will stand up to long term abuse without issue.
Sorry to hear about the bad news, but good to see that you've kept your integrity and done the right thing. Looking even more forward to seeing the Evolution shrouds when they're ready.
Thanks. If I can raise enough capital they will be available.
You are a smart man you'll fix the problem. Please don't give up
I won't give up just yet ;-)
You’ve got something worth way more than $25k…Integrity and Determination! You’ll work through this…that’s what engineers do!
Thanks. I managed to survive and we are back in business, and I have released the new Evolution Two cooling system.
The newest style reminds me of the Porsche 356 Carrera 4 cam fan arrangement that draws air from both the front and the back.
Yes, that was my inspiration. That engine is the Type 547, and Porsche developed it for Formula 1 racing, but they told the designer that it also needed to fit in the 356. It's quite the engine. It took me quite a while to figure out how to do the same thing using a standard VW alternator or generator. Like a lot of times in my life, as I was struggling to visualize how I might do it, I had a dream about it, and that morning I had my first prototype design in a couple of hours, and I was test fitting the first prototype in a couple of days.
build to order sounds good for me, now I know it wont sell out b4 I buy one
Great, thanks for the answer to my question.
I remember Audi had an alternator that operated like a thermal fan clutch? Or something like a bicycle freespeed assembly. I only remember because they went bad with a horrible sound. But when working reduced parasitic drag and re-engaged when rpms permitted.
Just some input, maybe have the fans with two RPM ratings. I am building a street bug that won't see high rpms. At least you got honesty the best policy. Test them at a lower rpm and then rate them for street stockers. Then sell em, just a suggestion
Yeah, that is certainly one option. I am going to just go with the stronger geometry at this point. I can forssee a situation where someone is using on an engine then tend to keep at low RPM, but all it takes is a missed shift, or some other accident that revs the engine way higher than is intended and boom you have no fan anymore. I appreciate the suggestion though, and it is something I considered, but I would personally feel more comfortable with just knowing that it blow up on people even under circumstances that are out of the ordinary, like an accidental revving of the engine.
Seems you are not interested at all in selling fans to people that will NEVER run their engines above 5k revs, but only to a small group of "would be racers". Odd, because who revs above 6k dont gives a shit for whatever parts needs regular replacement. Smart guy in techs, not so much in real life. My advice to your "catastrophe": sell the project to a businessman: you will pay your debts, keeps your hobby and make someone rich in VW aftermarket...
Good Luck moving forward
Thanks, I appreciate it.
Nice work if I find time I’ll draw up a smaller right an left fan system one drive belt
Great product you have. Question, moving the extra air and higher pressure is there an increase in sound or noise that is noticeable at idle or at increased RPM? I remember the mods back in the old day where rodders would remove the fan clutch on V8's for a solid fan. It sounded like a freight liner truck.
Actually, the sound is basically the same at lower RPM. At high RPM, the airflow is so high, that it does create a high pitched sound that is very noticeable. When I tested the Evolution Two fan on my test engine, I actually had a couple of guys run over because they thought I was running a blown engine, and they wanted to see it, but it was just the sound of the fan. This was when I was doing 8,000 RPM tests. Generally, for just normal driving, even at higher RPM levels (like 5,000 to 6,000 RPM), the sound is not very noticeable.
I have 2 of the fans. I put one on my formula vee race car and have at least 8 race weekends on it. I race at between 5 to 6k rpm with no issues. The motor went in PA last summer when oil temp hit 300 degrees and it stood up to the heat. I have the new sleeve but I bolted it on the original way. I am going to still use it. Not sure why these broke on other cars but mie is just fine.
I wouldn't leave it bolted on with the original mount. The updated mounting system will prevent failures. Not that many of the fans failed with the original mount, but it's likely that it will fail eventually unless you use the new mount I sent everyone. I recently had someone like you, who never put on the new mount after a couple of years of running the fan with no issues contact me, and he was doing some maintenance on his engine, and he inspected his fan, and it had a small crack in the area of the mount. He was fortunate not to have it fail while driving, and fortunate that I still had one I could send him, which was a fan I used for testing.
Have you done any test with agressive down shifting, with some imperfect throttle matching followed by agressive throttle and revs? Most fans fail with rapid changes in speed. These are hard to reproduce on a test stand. I have seen porsche fans fail under those conditions.
I did that on all the fans. I would Rev to 8,000 RPM and immediately close the throttle and kill the engine. No problems with that. The reason it can easily survive that kind of test is because the weight is so much less. A lot less inertial energy. The Evolution Two fan is 81% lighter so there is 81% less energy involved in slowing it down and speeding it up.
Will the evolution 2 fan set up work on a stock doghouse fan shroud?
No, it is a complete cooling system including my own fan shroud design.
you got to consider all the heat cycles it goes through . look at nylon timing chain tensioner after a few years they turn into crispy critters ?
Yes, I understand that. Of course, if it flies apart at times, it doesn't really matter about the heat cycles. Having said that, the material that I printed these from can handle the heat cycles without an issue.
Do you have or have you considered a Patrion account?
What about taking the first style and making it a cage style?
No, that won't really work. I went through dozens of prototypes to get to this point. Thanks for the suggestion though.
That’s sux I was really looking forward to it why not just sell the evo 1 but only for stock engine and put a disclaimer not to go over 6k
Yeah, other people have suggested that too. I did consider it, but it bothers me to sell something that might break if you accidentally over rev your engine. The Evolution Two will just work for everyone. Plus, I'm positive that someone would purchase the Evolution One without understanding the disclaimer and then be really upset when their breaks. I don't think it's worth the potential customer problems and potentially tarnishing the business.
Yes good afternoon I am extremely interested in your Evolution two fan system I tried building my own fan with blades about 40% larger than stock unfortunately the total weight of it is 1420 G as compared to 1164 G if you are selling your Evolution to fan system I would like to find out what the cost is and the availability is I have tried contacting you multiple times but not sure if I was successful your response would be greatly appreciated thank you
Sorry for my lack of responsiveness. I have things shut down right now, but the good news is I am under contract (again) to sell our house, and to purchase our new home, where I will also be moving the business. Once I'm moved I'll get the manufacturing of the new Evolution Two cooling system and fans going again. Right now, it look like we will move in the middle of July now, so probably have things going in August.
@@andrigsaircooledtechnology thank you for your quick response I greatly appreciate it I completely understand your predicament and the difficulties that you had with the fans this car is been a 20-year long restoration it's a 1968 Karmann Ghia convertible the motor is a 2165 with 44 IDF Weber's an aluminum Center Mount shroud that I put veins in the transaxle has been waiting 15 years without oil in it and the front beam is completed I am now finishing the replacement of the pan halves and hope to soon finish the Bodywork I think your fan would make a great Finishing Touch to my engine both in style and Cooling I wish you good fortune in the future and hope to hear from you soon thank you
What if it was injection molded?
You can't injection mold a squirrel cage centrifugal fan, unless you do it in two pieces, and then sonic weld the pieces. The weld would never survive, as it will be very weak. My Evolution Two fan does survive the high RPM testing.
I'm no engineer here but what if you were to use factory, metal, call it "base plates" and rivet your 3D printed fan blades to it?
The weight of the two metal parts would create a lot of stress on the blades. The blades are only 1.6 mm thick, and bonding steel or another metal with a composite plastic is difficult with such thin materials, and the bonding material itself would not only have to be able to deal with the stresses but have a very high heat deflection temperature without the bond becoming weak. I really haven't found anything that can do that.
It's a shame about your setback and I think building the EVO 2 cooling system to order could be the best option in the long term because, you won't have the risk of ordering more materials and making more than you end up selling. Also the group "Ruined VW’s - purist not allowed" could be a good place to advertise you Karman Ghia for sale because it's modified (Ruined from a purist prospective) and you mite even gain a few customers and order s for your EVO 2 cooling system and the other products you make and sale.
Okay, great. Thanks for answer the question on the build to order, and for the VW group too. That may be quite helpful.
@@andrigsaircooledtechnology your welcome