Sir I'm planning on starting a school in my state named Nalanda University where I'll focus on teaching vedic science, mathematics and related subjects..for free..my life long dream..
I am listening now to the conversation . I feel blessed to have an opportunity to listen. I want to thank Dixit ji to make it possible to bring Mr Kak's extensive thoughts on India to an average Indian .
I had privilege of interacting with Prof. Kak many times in Oklahoma. He is a brilliant professor and fantastic human being, and really understands Hindu religion. I suggested him to write books and spread his great ideas.
Born and raised generationally outside of India - I had absolutely no innate affinity for India even though family culture was all Indian. But in my late 30s - I read Autobiography of A Yogi which was such an awakening of what India intrinsically is! I am lucky to have found the great value my Indian legacy imparts which I had discarded. I have a great love for Indian values - is this Hindutva ?
Hindutva is Hindus fighting politically. Without power, Hindus can't bring respect to their civilisation, esp when we have Communists, evil Congress which ruled us for 60 years ???
Every Indian should know pramana shastra and the six Indic schools of thought there is no excuse, knowing these schools of thought is the essence of india
So called secularists twisted the Indian history namely Romila Tapar, Irfan Habeeb and Ram Guha who are staunch left followers..NCERT was dominated by the leftist who have rewritten the Indian history without any cross check. These fellows were awarded by the Congress party since they are stooges for Congress party.. They are mindless followers of Jyoti Basu, Ex-Chief minister of Bengal. All the blame should go to Nehru Dynasty who spoiled India. These leftists should answer why their counterparts kicked out by Pakistan.when Zia Ul Haq became of Pakistan. The same will be repeated in India soon. We can await for the moment. Jai hind.
Thanks Sir, I was looking forward to a session on caste system. This cleared many of my questions. A few other related questions I would request you to address in your next session: 1. Was varna system oppresive to Shudras ? When and how did that oppression start ? Left leaning people in my circle refer to it amd Dr Ambedkar's criticism of Brahmanvaad all the time. 2. Please share more historical evidence to prove that oppression of shudras and lower castes was not prevalent in ancient times until British took over. Please share the findings of 1870 census in a bit more detail. 3. Also, please give examples from ancient India, Hindu rulers, Brahmins who worked for the upliftment of Shudras. Please give more examples of Jaatis which mapped to more than one varna. 4. Can you also explain a bit more in detail how the retrofitting of Jaatis into varnas was done by Britishers in 1901 ?
Thank you Neha for asking this question. As a scheduled caste individual myself , I am grappling with the questions you have asked. What truly bothers me is that I am not sure I believe in the merit of putting the spotlight just on the British and their role in deepining the divide on the basis of caste. I do not disagree the idea that they had a role to play in it. What I don't believe is that the British were the only people responsible for this divisiveness. I don't see a candid and transparent acceptance by those who have, in my view, a bigger hand in creating this divide. It is obvious that the divide existed at the time of the British and before they came to this part of the world. Another question for me is that it is clear that the Varna system mutated into the caste system by the people in power and so why will this not continue? People in power will always use this divide to their advantage and so how can we truly come together?
Read writings of Mahatma Jyoti Rao Phule and his wife Savitri who were inspiration to Ambedkar. You will get some idea on how jati/caste restricted opportunities to Shudras.
"Every jati had it's own history" is a thick gloss over Manu Smriti. Whether people followed Manu Smriti strictly or not they did use it at their convenience. Pratiloma-Anuloma formula for deciding jati of offspring of mixed jati conjugation, clearly stated in Manu Smriti, is also subscribed by Savarkar in his manifesto on Hindutva even though Savarkar himself seems to have been agnostic/atheist and Hindutva mostly political.
Sanjay ji I would like to hear you in conversation with Shri Guru Prakash listening to whom I have learnt a lot about the caste and casteism which is so big of an issue today
I belong to one of Other Backyard Communities. Reservation is a plot to keep things like Caste-Certificate or Non Creamy Layer Certificate still relevant. Why should ever a government certify that this particular person belongs to this particular community, which is against human dignity.
I completely agree. But more and more communities are asking to be classified as backwards etc in order to get the benefits of some reservationor the other. So it seems to be a never ending vicious circle
What is caste system - it is what govt of india runs. First attempt at systematizing castes was made by brits in 19th century and quite terribly. Even today there are castes who are scheduled in one state and not in other. And they are clubbed together in 4 groups one being that of janjatis. So basically in three. And till a few decades back only in 2. Left harms them even more, by feeding them bad morality, that they shall succeed by snatching rather than replicating reasons of success of others. And we don't live in a snatching world.
True . Each Jati was autonomous, like a guild but that's Not entirely true that some Jatis are Not oppressed. But these oppressed ones could become powerful too.
India, rather Aryavarta that constituted mostly north India from Afghanistan to Assam inclusive of Nepal, was divided into 16 Janapadas though people were free to move as they wished and settle where they can pursue their Happiness aka Artha, Dharma and Moksha.
To introduce history of Indian contribution in STEM areas and other so many knowledge areas, without having the ignorant opposition labelling the effort as "saffronization," the government has to have at least 30 dedicated scholars trained both in the Indian and the Western categories of knowledge. These scholars then have to be the face of the gov with a firm intention of reforming the education system. You cannot have half-baked ministers with pompous mouths blurting out incredible things about the past that puts people off right at the start of the process. First thing is to recognize that the the modern versions of STEM evolved in the West and keeping their brutal colonial history aside, they are recognized as culturally more "rational" and hence are best equipped to grant us all this knowledge. That may be total bunkum. But they have all the progress and economic benefits to prove that point. So, like Dr. Kak says, don't ruffle feathers or start this this process in bombastic ways, but get the best minds to represent this process of change. Let these best 30 minds articulate the change India needs to go through to recognize & promote its own great history in STEM areas. Mostly, when these scholars are able to debate and convincingly articulate their points, the main opposition (the representatives of "English speaking" Commie/Islamist/missionary nexus) to this change can be silenced. A multi-pronged, intense campaigning needs to be done using different communication channels and reach as many Indians as possible. Once a fertile ground of critical mass support for this change is prepared then foundations of this change can be built at a rapid pace. For all that to happen, the gov must have a strong intent. They have to invite scholars like Kak, Dixit, CKL Raju, and countless others who have been coming out of their anonymity since the explosion of SM and reaching many Indian minds. There is no dearth of great scholarly minds who have good research background as well as the language to articulate Indic position.
Dilip Sadh : We do not have much documented incidents to replace existing History. There will be overlapping of regional history of India. Now region wise there is conflict and variance in history. It will be a difficult task for historians. But one should attempt to rewrite our history.
@@pavitraranjanswain4010 1) There is no proof of Aryan invasion theory and should be discarded from books 2) Middle ages History is not reflecting correct picture of Violence / murder/ rape and how poor people suffered during that period for centuries and many more.
Every day passes, I worry of Modi's age. I am afraid of tallest leader of BJP after BJP. Person whom junta would see and vote. Used to happen during Indira Gandhi too
south or southern...doesnt make too much of a difference... just a slightly varied usage of the english word...not very different than "Dakshin" bharat... it is incorrect to be so stuck with words and their usage...
@@rbhatnagar4477 sorry in my not-so-humble-opinion :-) there is nothing either subtle or nuanced between south and southern - not even to the english speaking anglosaxon...or for that matter shakespeare... they would agree that while one is a noun the other is perhaps a modifier of that noun... why should we desis be trying so hard...how would this make a difference to me - am I a south indian or an indian from the southern part of india... no difference!!! i feel silly chasing such identities. Trying to force a difference is called splitting hair... which we can avoid like the corona virus for now... enough said...
Some clarifications. 1- 8:13 - 8:38 The Sikhs mobilised themselves in the latter half of the nineteenth century to check Christian and Arya Samajist attempts at conversion. There appeared an interesting book by the name of 'Hum Hindu Nahin' by Kahn Singh Nabha. And I don't think the late Master Tara Singh would've agreed with you. He abandoned Hinduism and became Sikh by choice. Furthermore, the Natives across the vast Indian subcontinent very consciously allied themselves with the Raj to further the interests of their own principalities. Who helped the British in its war against the Sikh Khalsa Kingdom? Who fought with the British to crush the 1857 revolt? Who fired at unarmed men and women at Jalianwala? Brig. General Dyer only gave the order. It was carried out by loyalist Sikhs, Dogras and Gurkhas. Did they ever apologize for slaughtering their own? And even after that barbaric act a section of the citizenry thanked the authorities for restoring order. 2- 11:22 - 12:10 That medieval feudal thing was called 'Droit du seigneur'. It is fiercely disputed among serious historians. The speaker here shouldn't have presented it cavalierly without any evidence for the audience to explore. 3- 40:20 - 40:40 This talk of a civil war is simply laughable because it would mean upending the whole constitutional order, which, frankly, is beyond the capacities of the Indian 'Right'. It is schizophrenic. Its political vanguard accepts the Nehruvian framework yet would like to be a Savarkarite within it which is bizarre.
Which Jaati or Varna took advantage of the British rule in India? Most of the upper jaati or Varna got education in British Institutions first and settled abroad. If you take statistics about 90% of people working or settled in West are educated in British or Christian Missionary Schools. In those schools there was no Jaati or Varna differentiations.
First of all , Varna and Jaati are two different concept, don't mixed them . And secondly if u observed Britishers never took uper caste or jaati, they took our creamy layers.
Sir, How Varna (Quality) was decided? How Varna translated practically / physically? Isn't quality a function of quantity? (Isn't quality a look at the result of quantum?). Or is there no relationship between quantity and quality? Gina cannot exist without Gana, right?
Varna depends of psychology One's who use brains known as Pandit, like today's students, professor , researcher, scientist etc all are Pandit. 2nd one who use money like business man , entrepreneur, all are Baniya. One who take care of land like soldier, farmer all are Kshritiya And one who have tendency of service like government workers all are shudra. And group of same tendency people know as Jati. Like Students, no one give damn about their background ...children doing study know as Student but children doing child labour don't known as student same Student is Jati and study is varna
Sir I'm planning on starting a school in my state named Nalanda University where I'll focus on teaching vedic science, mathematics and related subjects..for free..my life long dream..
Wow! That would be a great initiative.
I will help u , if u need any help . I am always here 🙂
Please give me ur email id or e-mail ur details on mumbaikan@gmail.com
That's great
Hey a hxh fan !! Are u gen z or a millenial bro ?
I am listening now to the conversation . I feel blessed to have an opportunity to listen. I want to thank Dixit ji to make it possible to bring Mr Kak's extensive thoughts on India to an average Indian .
Makhan Warikoo there is another episode of Dr Kak with sree iyer under the Pgurus series , you can watch that too, it’s very interesting
I had privilege of interacting with Prof. Kak many times in Oklahoma. He is a brilliant professor and fantastic human being, and really understands Hindu religion. I suggested him to write books and spread his great ideas.
salutations to you for encouraging proff.to write books.
It is great to listen to two well read, erudite, knowledgeable and mature humans converse.
salutations to both of you.Very good discussions. Jai bharath.
I am happy you are trying to relate to our roots
Born and raised generationally outside of India - I had absolutely no innate affinity for India even though family culture was all Indian. But in my late 30s - I read Autobiography of A Yogi which was such an awakening of what India intrinsically is! I am lucky to have found the great value my Indian legacy imparts which I had discarded. I have a great love for Indian values - is this Hindutva ?
Hindutva is Hindus fighting politically.
Without power, Hindus can't bring respect to their civilisation, esp when we have Communists, evil Congress which ruled us for 60 years ???
Prof kak lot of thx nd gratitude to take ancient Indian views that are ve close to modern science.An eye opener for all of us
Every Indian should know pramana shastra and the six Indic schools of thought there is no excuse, knowing these schools of thought is the essence of india
Worthy topic for all to know.
Great to hear from you subhashji and Sanjay ji as always!!
So much to know, so much hidden , ,🙏🙏☹️🌷🌺🌷
So called secularists twisted the Indian history namely Romila Tapar, Irfan Habeeb and Ram Guha who are staunch left followers..NCERT was dominated by the leftist who have rewritten the Indian history without any cross check. These fellows were awarded by the Congress party since they are stooges for Congress party.. They are mindless followers of Jyoti Basu, Ex-Chief minister of Bengal. All the blame should go to Nehru Dynasty who spoiled India. These leftists should answer why their counterparts kicked out by Pakistan.when Zia Ul Haq became of Pakistan. The same will be repeated in India soon. We can await for the moment.
Jai hind.
Excellent
Eye opening conversation sir
One may continue to approach Left with LOVE, but for any positive effect, our Desi-Left has to be approached with LATH.
Thanks Sir, I was looking forward to a session on caste system. This cleared many of my questions. A few other related questions I would request you to address in your next session:
1. Was varna system oppresive to Shudras ? When and how did that oppression start ? Left leaning people in my circle refer to it amd Dr Ambedkar's criticism of Brahmanvaad all the time.
2. Please share more historical evidence to prove that oppression of shudras and lower castes was not prevalent in ancient times until British took over. Please share the findings of 1870 census in a bit more detail.
3. Also, please give examples from ancient India, Hindu rulers, Brahmins who worked for the upliftment of Shudras. Please give more examples of Jaatis which mapped to more than one varna.
4. Can you also explain a bit more in detail how the retrofitting of Jaatis into varnas was done by Britishers in 1901 ?
5. What is your take on latest genetic evidence that suggests practise of strict endogamy(especially in upper castes) since last 2000 years?
Thank you Neha for asking this question. As a scheduled caste individual myself , I am grappling with the questions you have asked. What truly bothers me is that I am not sure I believe in the merit of putting the spotlight just on the British and their role in deepining the divide on the basis of caste. I do not disagree the idea that they had a role to play in it. What I don't believe is that the British were the only people responsible for this divisiveness. I don't see a candid and transparent acceptance by those who have, in my view, a bigger hand in creating this divide. It is obvious that the divide existed at the time of the British and before they came to this part of the world. Another question for me is that it is clear that the Varna system mutated into the caste system by the people in power and so why will this not continue? People in power will always use this divide to their advantage and so how can we truly come together?
Read writings of Mahatma Jyoti Rao Phule and his wife Savitri who were inspiration to Ambedkar. You will get some idea on how jati/caste restricted opportunities to Shudras.
Thanks
"Every jati had it's own history" is a thick gloss over Manu Smriti. Whether people followed Manu Smriti strictly or not they did use it at their convenience. Pratiloma-Anuloma formula for deciding jati of offspring of mixed jati conjugation, clearly stated in Manu Smriti, is also subscribed by Savarkar in his manifesto on Hindutva even though Savarkar himself seems to have been agnostic/atheist and Hindutva mostly political.
Can you elaborate on pratiloma-anuloma.
Great discourse sir... 🙏🙏
Sanjay ji I would like to hear you in conversation with Shri Guru Prakash listening to whom I have learnt a lot about the caste and casteism which is so big of an issue today
I belong to one of Other Backyard Communities. Reservation is a plot to keep things like Caste-Certificate or Non Creamy Layer Certificate still relevant. Why should ever a government certify that this particular person belongs to this particular community, which is against human dignity.
I completely agree. But more and more communities are asking to be classified as backwards etc in order to get the benefits of some reservationor the other. So it seems to be a never ending vicious circle
What is caste system - it is what govt of india runs. First attempt at systematizing castes was made by brits in 19th century and quite terribly. Even today there are castes who are scheduled in one state and not in other. And they are clubbed together in 4 groups one being that of janjatis. So basically in three. And till a few decades back only in 2. Left harms them even more, by feeding them bad morality, that they shall succeed by snatching rather than replicating reasons of success of others. And we don't live in a snatching world.
what do you think about caste dynamics in haryana?
Oh yeah Britishers created caste and Indians happily accepted it. Very good.
Great going sanjay ji
Your. Programme need to be sub titled in different indian languages for wider viewership
True.
जी हां
जी हां बिल्कुल हिंदी में जानना चाहता हूं
जड़ें मजबूत हैं हिन्दुस्तान की
Subashkak is a genius .
True . Each Jati was autonomous, like a guild but that's Not entirely true that some Jatis are Not oppressed.
But these oppressed ones could become powerful too.
waiting sir
India, rather Aryavarta that constituted mostly north India from Afghanistan to Assam inclusive of Nepal, was divided into 16 Janapadas though people were free to move as they wished and settle where they can pursue their Happiness aka Artha, Dharma and Moksha.
To introduce history of Indian contribution in STEM areas and other so many knowledge areas, without having the ignorant opposition labelling the effort as "saffronization," the government has to have at least 30 dedicated scholars trained both in the Indian and the Western categories of knowledge. These scholars then have to be the face of the gov with a firm intention of reforming the education system. You cannot have half-baked ministers with pompous mouths blurting out incredible things about the past that puts people off right at the start of the process. First thing is to recognize that the the modern versions of STEM evolved in the West and keeping their brutal colonial history aside, they are recognized as culturally more "rational" and hence are best equipped to grant us all this knowledge. That may be total bunkum. But they have all the progress and economic benefits to prove that point. So, like Dr. Kak says, don't ruffle feathers or start this this process in bombastic ways, but get the best minds to represent this process of change. Let these best 30 minds articulate the change India needs to go through to recognize & promote its own great history in STEM areas. Mostly, when these scholars are able to debate and convincingly articulate their points, the main opposition (the representatives of "English speaking" Commie/Islamist/missionary nexus) to this change can be silenced. A multi-pronged, intense campaigning needs to be done using different communication channels and reach as many Indians as possible. Once a fertile ground of critical mass support for this change is prepared then foundations of this change can be built at a rapid pace.
For all that to happen, the gov must have a strong intent. They have to invite scholars like Kak, Dixit, CKL Raju, and countless others who have been coming out of their anonymity since the explosion of SM and reaching many Indian minds. There is no dearth of great scholarly minds who have good research background as well as the language to articulate Indic position.
Well articulated 👍
@@dixitsanjay2005 Thanks, Sanjay ji.
Anti Hindu, fake Hindu
shekhar gupta, ravish kumar, rajeep sirdesai, K.M. Shrimali (Marxist historian), Romila Thapar (Marxist historian), pallav baglaa, sagrika ghosh, punya prasoon vajpaee, abhishar sharma, vinod dua, rahul kanwal, nidhi, barkha datta, pratik sinha, saurabh divedi, dhruva rathee, prashant kanojiak,avita krishnan, arundhati roy, prashant bhusan, divya spandana, akaash benarjee, anjana om kashyap, prany roy, avi dandiya, karan thapar, preetish naandi, nikhil wagle, ramchandra guha, vinod kapri, medha patkar (activist), ashok swine,
digvijay singh,rajeeb dhavan, Ambika soni (converted christian),sharad pawar, navjoyot sing siddhu, sitaram yechuri, arvind kejariwal, sonia gandhi (gandhi family), randeep surjewal mamta benerjee,pavan khera, mani sankar aiyar, jignesh mewani, kanhaiya kumar, hardik patel, alpesh thakor, pramod krishnan, swami (mulla)agnivesh, mulayam, akhilesh yadav, lallu rabri tejasvi yadav, sam pitroda,jayram naresh, chandrababu naidu, tej bahadur yadav, yogendra yadav, sashi tharur, kapil sibbal, priyanka chaturvedi, p chidambaram, sharad yadav, renuka chowdhari, sunil chopra, mahua moitra,nishant varma, harsh mandar(social activist)
shilpa shindhe, mahesh bhatt, kamal hassan,sonam kapoor,deepa mehata, tanushri datta ,meera nair, sona mahapatra, shobha dayy, kareena kapoor, swara bhaskara, priyanka chopra, kunal kamra, prakash raj,shatrughan sinha, mallika dua, hard kaur, richa chaddha,sanjay datta, deepa mehata, sonam kapoor, anurag kashyap, anubhav sinha, ekta kapoor,
.............................to be continued
Sanjay ji : Thank you for good discussion. How shall we fix mistakes in current history books?
Dilip Sadh : We do not have much documented incidents to replace existing History. There will be overlapping of regional history of India. Now region wise there is conflict and variance in history. It will be a difficult task for historians. But one should attempt to rewrite our history.
@@pavitraranjanswain4010 1) There is no proof of Aryan invasion theory and should be discarded from books 2) Middle ages History is not reflecting correct picture of Violence / murder/ rape and how poor people suffered during that period for centuries and many more.
I like both the Jaipur Dialogues and the Arth Fest. They are very informative.
What is the impact of Dronacharya- Eklavya phenomena on the development in India ?
I am convinced, leftist confused bhatiya juggling jati with cast as the intellectuals equate Dharma with religion.
Every day passes, I worry of Modi's age.
I am afraid of tallest leader of BJP after BJP.
Person whom junta would see and vote.
Used to happen during Indira Gandhi too
Why do people say south india instead of southern india... Its deliberate plot of English speakers to talk in very subtle but highly divisive terms .
south or southern...doesnt make too much of a difference... just a slightly varied usage of the english word...not very different than "Dakshin" bharat... it is incorrect to be so stuck with words and their usage...
Thank you N. Mani, great to hear this from. You are right.
Jaya, every subtle nuance matters.
Well said, many of #BreakingIndia terms have been internalised even by patriots, others are Adivasi and Dalit.
@@rbhatnagar4477 sorry in my not-so-humble-opinion :-) there is nothing either subtle or nuanced between south and southern - not even to the english speaking anglosaxon...or for that matter shakespeare... they would agree that while one is a noun the other is perhaps a modifier of that noun... why should we desis be trying so hard...how would this make a difference to me - am I a south indian or an indian from the southern part of india... no difference!!! i feel silly chasing such identities.
Trying to force a difference is called splitting hair... which we can avoid like the corona virus for now...
enough said...
@@jayap3557 agree with you
Try to make this videos in Hindi. because it's too lmporte to know about this,Indian common people's....
Congress also invaded India just like Britishers and Mughals did
please invite barrister hamid bashani and amjad ayub mirza and aarif ajakia
Doesn't matter how many Jatis their relationships, we always had Brahmins , Kshatriyas and Shudras classes.
Are these vernas too ???
Fake inflated baloon can not last long
Some clarifications.
1- 8:13 - 8:38
The Sikhs mobilised themselves in the latter half of the nineteenth century to check Christian and Arya Samajist attempts at conversion. There appeared an interesting book by the name of 'Hum Hindu Nahin' by Kahn Singh Nabha. And I don't think the late Master Tara Singh would've agreed with you. He abandoned Hinduism and became Sikh by choice.
Furthermore, the Natives across the vast Indian subcontinent very consciously allied themselves with the Raj to further the interests of their own principalities. Who helped the British in its war against the Sikh Khalsa Kingdom? Who fought with the British to crush the 1857 revolt? Who fired at unarmed men and women at Jalianwala? Brig. General Dyer only gave the order. It was carried out by loyalist Sikhs, Dogras and Gurkhas. Did they ever apologize for slaughtering their own? And even after that barbaric act a section of the citizenry thanked the authorities for restoring order.
2- 11:22 - 12:10
That medieval feudal thing was called 'Droit du seigneur'. It is fiercely disputed among serious historians. The speaker here shouldn't have presented it cavalierly without any evidence for the audience to explore.
3- 40:20 - 40:40
This talk of a civil war is simply laughable because it would mean upending the whole constitutional order, which, frankly, is beyond the capacities of the Indian 'Right'. It is schizophrenic. Its political vanguard accepts the Nehruvian framework yet would like to be a Savarkarite within it which is bizarre.
Arya samaj is didn't intend to convert Sikhs .
It's wrong
Which Jaati or Varna took advantage of the British rule in India? Most of the upper jaati or Varna got education in British Institutions first and settled abroad. If you take statistics about 90% of people working or settled in West are educated in British or Christian Missionary Schools. In those schools there was no Jaati or Varna differentiations.
First of all , Varna and Jaati are two different concept, don't mixed them . And secondly if u observed Britishers never took uper caste or jaati, they took our creamy layers.
Britishers are the one who mixed jaati with varna.
Yogiji future Prime minister
Aj kal anek lok youtube per bolte hai.mein kayse samjhu kon kon communist hai or kon nahi
needs a smarter host
Subhash Kak is genius but his aaaaaa aaeeE pause too much during talk is ridiculous
Sir, How Varna (Quality) was decided? How Varna translated practically / physically? Isn't quality a function of quantity? (Isn't quality a look at the result of quantum?). Or is there no relationship between quantity and quality? Gina cannot exist without Gana, right?
Varna depends of psychology
One's who use brains known as Pandit, like today's students, professor , researcher, scientist etc all are Pandit.
2nd one who use money like business man , entrepreneur, all are Baniya.
One who take care of land like soldier, farmer all are Kshritiya
And one who have tendency of service like government workers all are shudra.
And group of same tendency people know as Jati. Like Students, no one give damn about their background ...children doing study know as Student but children doing child labour don't known as student same Student is Jati and study is varna
We know him (Professor ) well. He is genius. But you seem to be rude in introducing him.
please invite barrister hamid bashani and amjad ayub mirza and aarif ajakia