Yeah, it is quite the predicament trying to test for gameness while staying in accordance with the law of the land, but I believe it is possible. I for one believe hog hunting is a pretty good test of ability and some level of gameness even for the American pit bull. Some dogmen do not believe this, but there are people that do. Hunting and catch work against wild critters is one of the closest things to a fight you can get without using dogs for fight purposes. From what I have heard from folks like Richard F. Stratton and Diane Jessup, pit bulls were historically used in catch work and sports that mirrored it like bull baiting. That could be one reason why some dogmen in the pit sport call their dogs bulldogs. Nothing really compares to two bulldogs facing each other in the ring when testing gameness since no other animal matches that same level of grit and determination, but a dog facing and being able to tussle with a critter with so much power and attitude while holding that beast no matter what would probably be the next best thing.
I think "gameness" is a spectrum, not a binary quality where a dog either has it or it doesn't. If you're looking for a protection dog, hunting dog or dual purpose dog you really only need to test their ability to stay in the fight in those situations. A dog's gameness against another dog is irrelevant to me if I just need it to be able to fight an intruder or catch hog, but like you said that is going to be the best game test.
There are levels to gameness, they can be game hunters but different from being game in the box, to determine a true gamebred dog it has to be APBT tested against another.
Ive always felt there are different levels of gameness. Ive seen half apbt with some amount of gameness. The apbt can improve quite a few breeds. I like lees dogs and think they are great at what they do.
This is an interesting video. You are taking a dog that was culled for being aggressive towards man and using him to add gameness to protection dogs. From what I understand, gameness is a recessive trait and has to be tightly linebreed or inbred and still hard to hold onto. Is there a liability having too much gameness in a protection dog?
Does it matter for work purposes/is it common for a bandog to lose an upper canine tooth? As the bite power actually comes from the back of the jaw? Surely this is quite common?
There is only one test which tests a dogs gameness. To use the word any other way imo is just a bit of a sales pitch. With protection dogs, I think it does well to see the dogs under stress. Good decoys and trainers can do that. Look up avd trials, was great to see so many dogs who done great biting a sleeve which they are no doubt used to. Yet bottled it when put in different positions. All I’ve seen with lees dogs are them biting a sleeve n the sound of a whip cracking. Think it’s insulting to try pass that off as a game dog.
Fully agree. Unless he is testing his dogs in a variety of equipment and scenarios there is no way biting sleeves is proof. I am very familiar with working shepherds from military, LE, and sport club. I have a bandog and she is a sport dog and nothing more despite being a supposed "protection dog."
@@SuperColeman88 I just got a pup off of Vlad x Onyx and had my second tour of his yard. I've been following Mr. Robinson's program for over a decade now, I just have to laugh at folks on here that talk about his breeding program and put it down yet they have never met him and don't know his dogs at all. Mr. Lee Robinson is probably in the top 5% of breeders that has kept the true game APBT blood alive and I believe he has probably the #1 bandog program in existence today, maybe the best there ever has been. He is a true dogman and probably one of the most educated breeders out there and a super nice guy to boot.
@@jfkst1 his dogs have been tested and I mean tested. Don’t ask me when I’m talking about either. Use your fucking imagination. No intelligent person is going to promote or put anything illegal online for you. There’s plenty of people, hundreds in the United States that have his dog and outside of find one of them take your dog to him and see how far they get.
Every camp has their testimony of 'Game'! Honey Badger/Fox/Wolf. Three and four engagements with trail work is what I believe. Boudreaux/RedBoy/MachoBuck!!!
Could you do a video on Staffy Bull used on hogs in the Czech Republic (officially recognized by the Czech Canine Federation as hunting dog breed) ? You can contact Ruda Slaba, czech hunter using StaffBull : m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002927581866 Thanks 👍
Hey, I been watching your vids for a couple months now. I love getting all this new info. I was wondering if you would do a video on your opinion of people believing that Amstaffs, Staffies, ABPT are all the same dog and have no significant differences because they share the same ancestors. FYI I do not agree with this opinion, I just want to know what you think.
@Battle Bred K9s please keep making videos because I realized their people that are stuck in the old ways and don't know anything about genes and traits. the new generation like myself who are willing to make changes not for show or colors but for working dogs I follow you and calicatcher and we always learning and evolving 🔥
I've had pure bred APBT's for many years. "Game" means a dog is willing to fight to the death -- no quit. Maybe 1 in 10 APBT's is really "game." If you're a first time dog owner, or not a very strong dog handler, I strongly recommend not buying a game dog. These dogs are only one of two animals that have been bred against Mother Nature to fight to the death. The other is the fighting rooster. If you get a game dogs, it is imperative to heavy socialize the puppy at dog parks to teach them you don't want them attacking other dogs unprovoked. If you're not experienced you may find yourself in a lawsuit and you dog getting euthanized.
1 in 10 is way too high of a number for gameness... I'd say 1 in a 100 in the APBT and all but unheard of in a Bandogge or any other wanna be fight dog.... I will admit there are exceptions but few and far in-between.
@@zakkback1825 I was writing for game bred pits specifically. So you're saying 1 in 100 game bred pits are really "game?" I never fight my pits so I don't have first hand knowledge. But I know 3 people who breed their pits for fighting a all agree that around 1 in 10 of the pits are really game. The other 9 will quit in a fight rather than fight to the death. They call them "cerds."
That's called a dead game dog... Can come to near death in a contest and once their pulled off for a scratch their willing to continue to fight even though they we're nearly killed by the other... Those kind of dogs are 1 in 10, I do agree
@@moseshiers5199 You know a lot about the APBT. I'm impressed. I've owned 5 pure bred, one with blood lines traceable to 1952. They are amazing dogs given the proper training with a strong handers. I just bought another pup. He's 11 weeks old but catching on fast.
Is that the apbt that P. Patrick was refering to in the call recording thats been circulating when he said, " he verified and confirmed that Frankie never was a working dog and never worked." ?
IRELAND 🇮🇪🇮🇪 Checking in with yall, Dixer, Love your knowledge and experience a new way of learning from the best in the world 🌎, keep up the great grind 💪👏👍
I,m liking everything I,m hearing here great information great video
Yeah, it is quite the predicament trying to test for gameness while staying in accordance with the law of the land, but I believe it is possible. I for one believe hog hunting is a pretty good test of ability and some level of gameness even for the American pit bull. Some dogmen do not believe this, but there are people that do. Hunting and catch work against wild critters is one of the closest things to a fight you can get without using dogs for fight purposes. From what I have heard from folks like Richard F. Stratton and Diane Jessup, pit bulls were historically used in catch work and sports that mirrored it like bull baiting. That could be one reason why some dogmen in the pit sport call their dogs bulldogs. Nothing really compares to two bulldogs facing each other in the ring when testing gameness since no other animal matches that same level of grit and determination, but a dog facing and being able to tussle with a critter with so much power and attitude while holding that beast no matter what would probably be the next best thing.
I think "gameness" is a spectrum, not a binary quality where a dog either has it or it doesn't. If you're looking for a protection dog, hunting dog or dual purpose dog you really only need to test their ability to stay in the fight in those situations. A dog's gameness against another dog is irrelevant to me if I just need it to be able to fight an intruder or catch hog, but like you said that is going to be the best game test.
There are levels to gameness, they can be game hunters but different from being game in the box, to determine a true gamebred dog it has to be APBT tested against another.
Ive always felt there are different levels of gameness. Ive seen half apbt with some amount of gameness.
The apbt can improve quite a few breeds. I like lees dogs and think they are great at what they do.
Great
This is an interesting video. You are taking a dog that was culled for being aggressive towards man and using him to add gameness to protection dogs. From what I understand, gameness is a recessive trait and has to be tightly linebreed or inbred and still hard to hold onto. Is there a liability having too much gameness in a protection dog?
Fuck yeah bro
Does it matter for work purposes/is it common for a bandog to lose an upper canine tooth? As the bite power actually comes from the back of the jaw? Surely this is quite common?
I have never heard of that happening. Could please elaborate a bit more on the how and why would this happen or be common.
@@Imme-o7c it was bruised then the tooth has snapped at the end
Game dog or nun 💯💨
You should try coyote hunting and test the gameness that way aswell
They're good at coyote hunting.
A skinny coyote would be checking gameness for a collie or German shepherd that's all
There is only one test which tests a dogs gameness. To use the word any other way imo is just a bit of a sales pitch. With protection dogs, I think it does well to see the dogs under stress. Good decoys and trainers can do that. Look up avd trials, was great to see so many dogs who done great biting a sleeve which they are no doubt used to. Yet bottled it when put in different positions. All I’ve seen with lees dogs are them biting a sleeve n the sound of a whip cracking. Think it’s insulting to try pass that off as a game dog.
Fully agree. Unless he is testing his dogs in a variety of equipment and scenarios there is no way biting sleeves is proof. I am very familiar with working shepherds from military, LE, and sport club. I have a bandog and she is a sport dog and nothing more despite being a supposed "protection dog."
You clear we’re not listening and clearly have not followed his program.
@@SuperColeman88 I just got a pup off of Vlad x Onyx and had my second tour of his yard. I've been following Mr. Robinson's program for over a decade now, I just have to laugh at folks on here that talk about his breeding program and put it down yet they have never met him and don't know his dogs at all. Mr. Lee Robinson is probably in the top 5% of breeders that has kept the true game APBT blood alive and I believe he has probably the #1 bandog program in existence today, maybe the best there ever has been. He is a true dogman and probably one of the most educated breeders out there and a super nice guy to boot.
@@BluePossum44 I agree 💯.
@@jfkst1 his dogs have been tested and I mean tested. Don’t ask me when I’m talking about either. Use your fucking imagination. No intelligent person is going to promote or put anything illegal online for you. There’s plenty of people, hundreds in the United States that have his dog and outside of find one of them take your dog to him and see how far they get.
Every camp has their testimony of 'Game'! Honey Badger/Fox/Wolf. Three and four engagements with trail work is what I believe. Boudreaux/RedBoy/MachoBuck!!!
Could you do a video on Staffy Bull used on hogs in the Czech Republic (officially recognized by the Czech Canine Federation as hunting dog breed) ? You can contact Ruda Slaba, czech hunter using StaffBull :
m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002927581866
Thanks 👍
awesome working bulldogs, not game, real PIT BULLS run the line
THERE ARE DIFFERENT LEVELS WITH DIFFERENT WORKING DOGS WHEN IT COMES TO GAMENESS!!!!
Great stuff, appreciate it bro!
Hey, I been watching your vids for a couple months now. I love getting all this new info. I was wondering if you would do a video on your opinion of people believing that Amstaffs, Staffies, ABPT are all the same dog and have no significant differences because they share the same ancestors. FYI I do not agree with this opinion, I just want to know what you think.
I am working on a docu-series to lay all that out for people actually. Stay tuned.
Some salty people in these comments lol
Right! 🤣🤣
@Battle Bred K9s please keep making videos because I realized their people that are stuck in the old ways and don't know anything about genes and traits. the new generation like myself who are willing to make changes not for show or colors but for working dogs I follow you and calicatcher and we always learning and evolving 🔥
@@angeldiaz7276 I really appreciate the love and support. I'm just getting warmed up.
I've had pure bred APBT's for many years. "Game" means a dog is willing to fight to the death -- no quit. Maybe 1 in 10 APBT's is really "game." If you're a first time dog owner, or not a very strong dog handler, I strongly recommend not buying a game dog. These dogs are only one of two animals that have been bred against Mother Nature to fight to the death. The other is the fighting rooster. If you get a game dogs, it is imperative to heavy socialize the puppy at dog parks to teach them you don't want them attacking other dogs unprovoked. If you're not experienced you may find yourself in a lawsuit and you dog getting euthanized.
1 in 10 is way too high of a number for gameness... I'd say 1 in a 100 in the APBT and all but unheard of in a Bandogge or any other wanna be fight dog.... I will admit there are exceptions but few and far in-between.
@@zakkback1825 I was writing for game bred pits specifically. So you're saying 1 in 100 game bred pits are really "game?"
I never fight my pits so I don't have first hand knowledge. But I know 3 people who breed their pits for fighting a all agree that around 1 in 10 of the pits are really game. The other 9 will quit in a fight rather than fight to the death. They call them "cerds."
That's called a dead game dog... Can come to near death in a contest and once their pulled off for a scratch their willing to continue to fight even though they we're nearly killed by the other... Those kind of dogs are 1 in 10, I do agree
@@moseshiers5199 You know a lot about the APBT. I'm impressed. I've owned 5 pure bred, one with blood lines traceable to 1952. They are amazing dogs given the proper training with a strong handers. I just bought another pup. He's 11 weeks old but catching on fast.
@@harrymiles2906 no I was saying maybe 1 in a 100 pitbulls are deep game
It all comes down to apbt game 🩸
Is that the apbt that P. Patrick was refering to in the call recording thats been circulating when he said, " he verified and confirmed that Frankie never was a working dog and never worked." ?
Where is that link? I Seriously doubt he is talking about Frankie bomp
What is the purpose of creating these dogs?
Traditionally either used as protection dogs (either personal or homestead) and also as catch dogs for big game (most commonly hogs nowadays).
IRELAND 🇮🇪🇮🇪
Checking in with yall, Dixer,
Love your knowledge and experience a new way of learning from the best in the world 🌎, keep up the great grind 💪👏👍
Where's that Stormer and psycho blood
Receiving an Education
People keep saying game dog there is only one true game dog thats the ones on the circuit simple tested proven 🤦♂️
💯💯💯
He doesn't want to loose his empire he knows the right verbiage to use gotta be careful of these humaniacs
My dogs were from Zebo blood. You don’t see that anymore
He left out the tombstone look at mayday ped
Love y'all content mr lee & mad dogg best teachers on these subjects until recent