Good information, I’m actually doing a service call for no hot water so I did a restart in it and it’s working for now. Did you ever have a 101 code pop up and did you ever have to clean the burners? Labor wise I recommended to change the unit.
Never had an error code pop up in normal operation on mine. Some information on troubleshooting 101 code in the service manual. If you don't have a copy, here's one I found: drive.google.com/file/d/1uR9UmjtuiRDCBxaDnpbN2v-JTVw37r-e/view?usp=share_link You might also check the intake air, see if something is clogging the inlet.
@@The4Crawler Yes I did do the manual suggestion’s but nothing was blocking the vents so it came down to the burner or the blower issue or possibly sensors. So instead of wasting the customers money in parts and labor which would come out to the cost of a new unit I recommended to just change the unit and a couple hours labor.
@@Manicmonday25 Yes, I imagine with labor rates and parts cost these days, a new unit might cost less, especially for a simple swap. Do you salvage parts out of the old heater or just toss it?
Typically yes, but if the area the air is being pulled from has sufficient volume and venting for the appliance, then it can come from inside: hinarratives.com/reference/heating/calculating-adequate-combustion-air/ In this case, heater was in an unconditioned garage of sufficient volume.
@@ranchitosantos5165 Intake tube, assuming your heater has two openings, is for the intake air that is pulled in by the fan or blower. The installation manual for the heater I have shows options for pulling air from inside or outside. In my unit, the intake tube is just open to the inside of the heater. I guess the blower pulls air from inside the case for combustion then blows it out the exhaust, which is the other tube. That needs to vent outside.
See below: www.fixya.com/support/t1420366-takagi_tk_jr_vibrating_noise Or search for "Takagi Tankless Water Heater Vibration" and there are a few more possible causes and solutions.
You would need to check the installation manual and see what's listed by Takagi. In mine (H3M), it does list ABS meeting ASTM D2661 as approved intake and venting material. You would also need to check your local plumbing code and see if that material is allowed or not.
@@azevedoplumbing Either material is listed in the installation manual, along with ABS and Polypropylene. This install was with PVC: ruclips.net/video/fkuscb7Bo-g/видео.html
Yes, it's doing just fine. The other day had the utility sink running full hot plus the dishwasher. That totaled about 2.6 GPM at 140F temperature output which adds up to 80,000BTU/hr. heat output. No issues at all with that. Normally, though, I usually only use one fixture or appliance at a time, since I prefer to set the exact water temperature for the task at hand.
Used one of these to run in floor heating for my house. Works great, if temps don't get too far below zero F, then intake frosts up, and that frost comes inside, ices up the PVC, ices up whole corner of unit, and the display starts to get foggy.. So keep intake and exhaust far apart, I thought exhaust high and intake low and 2 feet to side would work, it did not, had to hang 3 feet of pipe and remove vermin guard off so not out there every 8 hours clearing out.. Still worried about unit getting all iced up inside, but we had -30F night temps lately and not normal, was tempted to run it without front cover on to warm it up and drill hole in intake and put a pad heater inside and seal up hole and use when needed.. So if mount on outside wall, put intake high and exhaust low or have longer runs.. maybe the concentric work, would be warm and melt it, rather it wasn't drawn in at all.. if I didn't just have place all sided with new soffits before winter I would just move them around..
Yes, might be issues running one of these in that cold weather. It rarely gets below freezing where I live. The concentric vent might help somewhat as you have the intake air getting some pre-warming from the exhaust going up the center tube, especially if the unit is running for a longer period. I noticed on mine it takes about 10 minutes to get the exhaust temperature at the roof vent up to the maximum of about 130F.
Yes, the condensing models allow that. I still need to hook up the condensate drain as condensed water in the exhaust actually drips out of that fitting. The non-condensing heaters require expensive stainless steel venting. That's another reason I opted for this model, 1 length of 3" PVC pipe and a couple of elbows and it's good to go.
Nice work! I have one to install, and don't know how to connect the 3" PVC to the 4" steel vent stack on the top of the unit. The manual says that they simply connect together, but they have exactly the same OD and do not fit together. Any help would be appreciated.
Yes, suppose they should mention that. My guess is they may have changed suppliers for the couplings and the new supplier's parts are a bit larger than what they designed for. Seeing as they are relying on the OD of a part that is specified by it's ID, they are vulnerable to these sorts of issues. You could also use something like a belt sander to take off a bit of material fairly quickly.
Permitted in my location: 5. TPR discharge pipe shall discharge to the floor, to the pan serving the water heater or storage tank, to a waste receptor or to the outdoors. The existing water heater had a similar TPR drain to the garage floor and was in place over 60 years without issue. In the local area, the majority of water heaters in older homes I've seen are set up this way. Maybe in new construction, exterior drains may be more common. That heater also had flexible water lines due to local seismic conditions. Yes, could have been hard piped as well since the tankless is fixed to the wall and not subject to movement. But the local AHJ is used to seeing flexible lines.
Love the video, looks nice and clean. Question I just got a Takagi 6.6 GPM and am trying to understand what is needed for venting. I was hoping maybe you could answer a few basic questions. I am hanging the tank on my utility wall that is shared with the garage. I want to intake directly from the garage so just a run a short and a 90 through the wall then I was going to run a condenser trap then a 90 through same wall and and a 90 making a left going to to exterior wall of the garage to the out side for the exhaust. then finally can I use PVC or Staniless steel? Manual is NOT clear at all. Thanks much in advance Greg
Probably depends on the exact heater. I think the general rule of thumb is a condensing heater will work with PVC (exhaust temps are below the boiling point of water). The non-condensing heaters typically need stainless steel since the exhaust is hotter (over the boiling point). and that hot exhaust can condense and is mildly acidic. Might check with Takagi directly on a specific model venting requirements. I contacted them once and they responded fairly fast.
I had 1/2" piping under the house and inside the wall, perhaps 12 feet worth. That was pushing the limits of how much gas flow the heater needed at full output. So in order to limit the pressure losses in the remainder of the piping, I went to 3/4". The heater has a 3/4" gas connection, so I would need to transition from 1/2" to 3/4" at some point, so why not as soon as possible. Not a lot of cost difference in 3/4" vs. 1/2" fittings. Since things like tees and elbows introduce a lot more restriction than a straight section of pipe, making those fittings larger helps to minimize the losses.
Thank for your valuable information. Just one more question: from their manual, look like they require Schedule 40 PVC which meet ASTM D1785 standard. I could not find any of these from Home Depot nor Lowes. What kind of PVC pipe are you using? so far so good?.
I found some ASTM D1785 PVC at my local Lowes. If you can't find that, CPVC or ABS pipe is also listed for the intake and exhaust venting. I found a lot more local selection on the 3" ABS components than I did with the 3" PVC.
I think this is what I used: www.lowes.com/pd/Charlotte-Pipe-3-in-x-10-ft-260-PSI-PVC-Pipe/3135451 "Conforms to Standards: ASTM D 1784, ASTM D 1785 and NSF Standards 14 and 61"
Since your exhaust run was within the 6' for a pvc run, Why not use a 3x2 reducer( I noticed you could use 2" in the manual on the video) and run 2" pvc thru the old piping . Might save some time and effort.
I suppose that was another option. It might have been a bit tricky to fit the PVC pipe elbow inside that old concrete stack pipe. Also since it possibly had asbestos in it, I wanted to have as little as possible to do with it. It was removed and disposed of with the old tank heater. With the 2" PVC, the length of the exhaust vent would be right at the maximum listed in the manual, depending on how the 2 - 22.5 degree elbows are accounted for. Some newer heaters have increased vent length ratings for 2" PVC as they have blowers with more pressure/speed settings.
Yes, I'm totally happy with the heater. It's cut my natural gas bill over 80% and show pay for itself in less than 10 years. Having the ability to set the water temperature with the remote control is awesome. Crank it to 100F and hop in the shower, no fiddling with the hot and cold water taps to get the right temperature. Set it to 140F for a load of dishes, etc. And it freed up enough floor space to install a killer utility sink.
Since the unit is firmly fastened to the wall, no need for any flex line like you would have with a free standing tank type heater. Also, was concerned about gas flow through a flex pipe as I was pushing the limits of the existing gas piping. As noted in this video: ruclips.net/video/zW109bgIRg4/видео.html Flex lines can limit gas flow. HEre's another example: ruclips.net/video/GvuDKc3R2j8/видео.html
GREAT JOB THANK YOU. WHAT ABOUT THE CONDENSENCE FITTINGS, ROUTING AND HOOKUP???
That's covered in a later video in this playlist:
ruclips.net/video/ZGxH4CkNS5M/видео.html
Good information, I’m actually doing a service call for no hot water so I did a restart in it and it’s working for now. Did you ever have a 101 code pop up and did you ever have to clean the burners? Labor wise I recommended to change the unit.
Never had an error code pop up in normal operation on mine. Some information on troubleshooting 101 code in the service manual. If you don't have a copy, here's one I found:
drive.google.com/file/d/1uR9UmjtuiRDCBxaDnpbN2v-JTVw37r-e/view?usp=share_link
You might also check the intake air, see if something is clogging the inlet.
@@The4Crawler Yes I did do the manual suggestion’s but nothing was blocking the vents so it came down to the burner or the blower issue or possibly sensors. So instead of wasting the customers money in parts and labor which would come out to the cost of a new unit I recommended to just change the unit and a couple hours labor.
@@Manicmonday25 Yes, I imagine with labor rates and parts cost these days, a new unit might cost less, especially for a simple swap. Do you salvage parts out of the old heater or just toss it?
I have a question, the “intake” pipe on top of the heater , does that one have to run out of the house? I noticed you did run a line for that
Typically yes, but if the area the air is being pulled from has sufficient volume and venting for the appliance, then it can come from inside:
hinarratives.com/reference/heating/calculating-adequate-combustion-air/
In this case, heater was in an unconditioned garage of sufficient volume.
@@The4Crawler thank you for the quick response. But that intake pipe wont release any carbon monoxide right? Im in the process of installing mine.
@@ranchitosantos5165 Intake tube, assuming your heater has two openings, is for the intake air that is pulled in by the fan or blower. The installation manual for the heater I have shows options for pulling air from inside or outside. In my unit, the intake tube is just open to the inside of the heater. I guess the blower pulls air from inside the case for combustion then blows it out the exhaust, which is the other tube. That needs to vent outside.
how do you do that?
Mine has vibration problem when it ignites and about 10-30 seconds after. When I increase water use it helps a bit
See below:
www.fixya.com/support/t1420366-takagi_tk_jr_vibrating_noise
Or search for "Takagi Tankless Water Heater Vibration" and there are a few more possible causes and solutions.
@@The4Crawler thank you. Hope my model has tha same design as theirs so problems could be similar
Can i use black PVC pipe ( sewer) for ventilation ? I just bought takagi series 200 (2 to 3 shower).
You would need to check the installation manual and see what's listed by Takagi. In mine (H3M), it does list ABS meeting ASTM D2661 as approved intake and venting material. You would also need to check your local plumbing code and see if that material is allowed or not.
PVC OR CPVC and ABS DWV . Manual shows these specs. Black pipe okay 👌
@@azevedoplumbing Either material is listed in the installation manual, along with ABS and Polypropylene. This install was with PVC:
ruclips.net/video/fkuscb7Bo-g/видео.html
Just wanted to check in and see if the unit is still able to keep up with domestic hot water demand, washing machine, shower, and faucet on at once?
Yes, it's doing just fine. The other day had the utility sink running full hot plus the dishwasher. That totaled about 2.6 GPM at 140F temperature output which adds up to 80,000BTU/hr. heat output. No issues at all with that. Normally, though, I usually only use one fixture or appliance at a time, since I prefer to set the exact water temperature for the task at hand.
Used one of these to run in floor heating for my house. Works great, if temps don't get too far below zero F, then intake frosts up, and that frost comes inside, ices up the PVC, ices up whole corner of unit, and the display starts to get foggy.. So keep intake and exhaust far apart, I thought exhaust high and intake low and 2 feet to side would work, it did not, had to hang 3 feet of pipe and remove vermin guard off so not out there every 8 hours clearing out.. Still worried about unit getting all iced up inside, but we had -30F night temps lately and not normal, was tempted to run it without front cover on to warm it up and drill hole in intake and put a pad heater inside and seal up hole and use when needed.. So if mount on outside wall, put intake high and exhaust low or have longer runs.. maybe the concentric work, would be warm and melt it, rather it wasn't drawn in at all.. if I didn't just have place all sided with new soffits before winter I would just move them around..
Yes, might be issues running one of these in that cold weather. It rarely gets below freezing where I live. The concentric vent might help somewhat as you have the intake air getting some pre-warming from the exhaust going up the center tube, especially if the unit is running for a longer period. I noticed on mine it takes about 10 minutes to get the exhaust temperature at the roof vent up to the maximum of about 130F.
amazing gas heater with pvc exhaust. Glad you got it up and going.
Yes, the condensing models allow that. I still need to hook up the condensate drain as condensed water in the exhaust actually drips out of that fitting. The non-condensing heaters require expensive stainless steel venting. That's another reason I opted for this model, 1 length of 3" PVC pipe and a couple of elbows and it's good to go.
@@The4Crawler thank you
Nice work! I have one to install, and don't know how to connect the 3" PVC to the 4" steel vent stack on the top of the unit. The manual says that they simply connect together, but they have exactly the same OD and do not fit together. Any help would be appreciated.
See what I did in a previous video:
ruclips.net/video/R4yZVi4FeBM/видео.html
I found I needed to file/sand/machine down the OD of that coupler to fit.
Nice solution. I'll head to my Dad's to turn these on the lathe. Some mention of this issue in the manual would have been nice.
Yes, suppose they should mention that. My guess is they may have changed suppliers for the couplings and the new supplier's parts are a bit larger than what they designed for. Seeing as they are relying on the OD of a part that is specified by it's ID, they are vulnerable to these sorts of issues. You could also use something like a belt sander to take off a bit of material fairly quickly.
I didn’t see pressure relief line going out side also tankless did not like give pipes not recommended
Permitted in my location:
5. TPR discharge pipe shall discharge to the floor, to the pan serving the water heater or storage tank, to a waste receptor or to the outdoors.
The existing water heater had a similar TPR drain to the garage floor and was in place over 60 years without issue. In the local area, the majority of water heaters in older homes I've seen are set up this way. Maybe in new construction, exterior drains may be more common.
That heater also had flexible water lines due to local seismic conditions. Yes, could have been hard piped as well since the tankless is fixed to the wall and not subject to movement. But the local AHJ is used to seeing flexible lines.
Also Specially in the w/m room can Collect dusty and can giveing Error code recommends intake vent Take outside
Think you'll ever build sled decks or sled beds?
Love the video, looks nice and clean. Question I just got a Takagi 6.6 GPM and am trying to understand what is needed for venting. I was hoping maybe you could answer a few basic questions. I am hanging the tank on my utility wall that is shared with the garage. I want to intake directly from the garage so just a run a short and a 90 through the wall then I was going to run a condenser trap then a 90 through same wall and and a 90 making a left going to to exterior wall of the garage to the out side for the exhaust. then finally can I use PVC or Staniless steel? Manual is NOT clear at all. Thanks much in advance Greg
Probably depends on the exact heater. I think the general rule of thumb is a condensing heater will work with PVC (exhaust temps are below the boiling point of water). The non-condensing heaters typically need stainless steel since the exhaust is hotter (over the boiling point). and that hot exhaust can condense and is mildly acidic. Might check with Takagi directly on a specific model venting requirements. I contacted them once and they responded fairly fast.
This water heater use existing 1/2" gas pipe, why in your video, you are using 3/4" from the wall to the tank?
I had 1/2" piping under the house and inside the wall, perhaps 12 feet worth. That was pushing the limits of how much gas flow the heater needed at full output. So in order to limit the pressure losses in the remainder of the piping, I went to 3/4". The heater has a 3/4" gas connection, so I would need to transition from 1/2" to 3/4" at some point, so why not as soon as possible. Not a lot of cost difference in 3/4" vs. 1/2" fittings. Since things like tees and elbows introduce a lot more restriction than a straight section of pipe, making those fittings larger helps to minimize the losses.
Thank for your valuable information.
Just one more question: from their manual, look like they require Schedule 40 PVC which meet ASTM D1785 standard. I could not find any of these from Home Depot nor Lowes. What kind of PVC pipe are you using? so far so good?.
I found some ASTM D1785 PVC at my local Lowes. If you can't find that, CPVC or ABS pipe is also listed for the intake and exhaust venting. I found a lot more local selection on the 3" ABS components than I did with the 3" PVC.
Thanks, can you provide some part number? I think I can order online so that they can ship to me or I can find it round here
I think this is what I used:
www.lowes.com/pd/Charlotte-Pipe-3-in-x-10-ft-260-PSI-PVC-Pipe/3135451
"Conforms to Standards: ASTM D 1784, ASTM D 1785 and NSF Standards 14 and 61"
Since your exhaust run was within the 6' for a pvc run, Why not use a 3x2 reducer( I noticed you could use 2" in the manual on the video) and run 2" pvc thru the old piping . Might save some time and effort.
I suppose that was another option. It might have been a bit tricky to fit the PVC pipe elbow inside that old concrete stack pipe. Also since it possibly had asbestos in it, I wanted to have as little as possible to do with it. It was removed and disposed of with the old tank heater.
With the 2" PVC, the length of the exhaust vent would be right at the maximum listed in the manual, depending on how the 2 - 22.5 degree elbows are accounted for. Some newer heaters have increased vent length ratings for 2" PVC as they have blowers with more pressure/speed settings.
Is it worth a fuck..?
Yes, I'm totally happy with the heater. It's cut my natural gas bill over 80% and show pay for itself in less than 10 years. Having the ability to set the water temperature with the remote control is awesome. Crank it to 100F and hop in the shower, no fiddling with the hot and cold water taps to get the right temperature. Set it to 140F for a load of dishes, etc. And it freed up enough floor space to install a killer utility sink.
It does not look professional at all but it will get you hot water
I’m no plumber but seems like you should have a flex line between unit and gas line
Since the unit is firmly fastened to the wall, no need for any flex line like you would have with a free standing tank type heater. Also, was concerned about gas flow through a flex pipe as I was pushing the limits of the existing gas piping. As noted in this video:
ruclips.net/video/zW109bgIRg4/видео.html
Flex lines can limit gas flow. HEre's another example:
ruclips.net/video/GvuDKc3R2j8/видео.html
The whole thing is hooked up wrong
THIS GUY IS HAVING A STROKE.....I GUARENTEE THIS SYSTEM WILL NOT RUN CORRECTLY....HE DOESN'T EVEN KNOW HIS FITTINGS
Well this guy made this job way more difficult that it had to be