Why are Age of Sigmar models so much more fun than Warhammer 40,000?
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
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The difference between the latest reveals for Killteam, Warhammer 40,000 and Age of Sigmar feel pretty extreme. Some are definitely more fun than the others but the question is... why?
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Every 40k release for me is "how would I kitbash it to suit me better", every AOS release is just : "YES." alternatively : "that could do a good this or that for 40k" 😂
so painfully true lol.
Im converting my army over to blood angels cause... Im just kinda bored of my custom chapter. I've been looking at the stormcast models finding things I can kitbash/proxy for things like Sanguinor instead of just getting the new model
I get it, but on the other hand it feels really good for the sci-fi side to be jealous of the fantasy side for a change
It is cathartic for sure. I do hope that someday, the 40k/AoS/fantasy fans can all have what they want and live in peace. But as an AoS fan who has heard "age of sh**mar" too many times, I'm really enjoy the salt right now.
It probably makes me a shit person, but o well.
@@MySuperPowerIsITouchGrass Nah, your a shit person if you go and tease back, nothing wrong with some "justice". I say this as a almost new 40k player, so i dosent hurt me as much not seeing new models, as i still havent seen all what GW has to provide lol
@@MySuperPowerIsITouchGrassit’s funny, I’m very much an old world fan and I’ve noticed a lot of snarky comments online from AoS fans ripping into old world. I think it’s a shame that we can’t all let each other enjoy what we enjoy.
@@The_Captain40k They're doing it because they feel threatened by TOW's existence, which isn't helped by the fact that this "war" is happening even inside GW itself.
@@Drakenn100 This is what I think as well, which is funny too because AoS gets so much more investment and cool models. But old world has been surprisingly popular and could be even more popular in future with new factions like Kislev of Cathay and more new models and legacy factions.
3:49 - "It would have been easy to let these die and I don't think most people would have noticed".
Believe me Kirioth, people would have noticed.
It’s one reason why I’m feeling more drawn towards Horus heresy instead of 40K, or making heresy themed armies for 40K. The models can be pretty mixed too like that librarian, but as a whole the customization is amazing. The homebrew side isn’t as great, but at least there’s so much to do with characters, veterans, and army lists. Age of sigmar also has amazing kitbash and homebrew potential for almost every army. Necromunda and kill team ooze with customization and personality. I feel like the main people in charge of 40K is too afraid to compromise the cash cow, but the others seem to have an understanding that the best way to make more money is to make better kits.
For the argument about easier painting, the way I see it is that this is the job of the basic infantry. New players and painters can learn the ropes of painting with them because they are supposed to be simple. Sanguinary guard or the stormcast angel units are meant to be a specialist that a novice would work towards until they feel more confident to try something more elaborate. At least that’s how I see it.
The recent space marines have been meh but the new tyranids and kroot are great. 40k kits are amazing when the sculptors are allowed to take the gloves off
Yeah, my answer to this question is always "40K's not boring, the Imperium is". Most Xenos-faction players have been getting some good stuff for the last few years.
Kroot are my definition of a perfect update, literally zero misses with their new refresh.
I disagree with all the new Marines being boring, the Sternguard, Bladeguard, Company Heroes, and Terminators are all great, thematic veteran kits.
Because the 40k team play it far too safe and they clearly have no passion. Age of sigmar has produced both a better game system and models in the last 5 years and I'm all for it
It's not even debatable at this point.
They don't play it safe they just suck when they branch out. they gave space marines silly nerf guns and a a ton of over the topic vehicles they just visually are wrong for the setting and army.
I think it's more they just don't vibe right
2023-2024 has just been insane for AoS in terms of minis and army refreshes, it was coming off the back of 2022 with the Slaves to Darkness army refresh which was amazing, then the Seraphon refresh which showed how they could revamp classic fantasy ideas and push them into modern mini designs, the Cities of Sigmar refresh brought the setting back down into more of a gothic dark fantasy vibe which was a really good choice, which they then followed up with flesh eater courts which was the surprise dark horse that blew everyone's expectations away and gave us the boss monster that followed the dark souls vibe they started to give off in the form of Ushoran. And they didn't even settle for just big army refreshes. They sprinkled really good minis for different armies throughout like the Harbringer of decay, the croneseer, Cryptborn, and Belthanos and wven their mini refreshes with the Ironjaws and the Darkoath were fantastic they really have just not missed and with the recent 4th edition stuff they have just taken it to another level with skaven going from possibly the worst range to one of the best.
Meanwhile, on the 40k side, I wouldn't say anything is bad, but so far, almost everything has been laced with disappointment. Votann had a good start, but nothing that made them unique. They got one of each unit type, and then they called it a day. World eaters got half an army, the same for Kroot. The Tyranids are the standout with great refreshes with the space marines being good, but nothing groundbreaking. The dark angels are what they released. I did like, but there's still a lot of holes in that army, like absolutely nothing for the Ravenwing? And the blood angels are pretty sad, not even having a nice centerpiece like the Lion, which could have been the Sanguinor, but they played it safe. And the imperial agents is an embarrassment of an army. Which is sad because I really like it. It feels like with how much money and popularity they should be leading in terms of they've stagnated hard
I remember on The Painting Phase it was heavily implied that the 40K team is a lot more restricted/monitored by top management because it is the cash cow of GW. All the bosses and accountants are probably watching the space marine designers like a hawk and fulfilling the “too many cooks in the kitchen” curse. Meanwhile the AoS team, and especially the Specialist Design Studio (HH/Necromunda/etc) can do what they want which is why cool stuff like the malstrain genestealers could happen.
So happy about the Vespids, looking forward fitting them into my Kroot army
7:50 - I think this is the main problem. In ye olde days, there were different weapons, bits you could stick on (knives, grenades, etc) and arm swaps you could do to make 'your guys', and you could spend points to show off the individuality. Nowadays, it feels like you get a monopose kit that exactly fits the rules profile, and that's it. If you want to convert kits, I spend more time making the model then sawing bits off it (thus sacrificing the model) for my other model. I sell parts of my Pile of Shame on eBay, and the amount of additional stuff I package with an old kit (per model) is substantially more than any Primaris/new kits I sell.
This is A problem but not the main one cos pretty sure most AOS kits are the same but the designers and sculptors etc are on fire
I think this is largely a rules issue. People think balance is so vital it flattens everything else. Primaris kits come with a lot of greebles too. And trust me. I own Firstborn and am still buying kits for them. They aren't as great as people make them out to be
It's not just AoS. All other GW games have top notch design teams for the models but with 40k it's like they're forced to simplify things and keep everything "safe".
I'll be real with you, it's probably because 40k models just need to be okay to sell out immediately, whereas AoS models have to actually try because the game isn't as popular.
Like, that inquisitor guy is god awful, so my guess is that he's not gonna sell any time soon, but literally every single primaris lieutenant model ever released has sold out immediately, regardless of how bland or uninteresting it looks.
I live in middle of nowhere and recall my local gamestore complaining about getting 'only' 15 of the new primaris lieutenants, saying 'there's no way that's enough for anything' fully knowing they'd sell out in one afternoon.
Kirioth, you're probably old enough to remember, but the original Stingwings came in metal, they only became resin when GW stopped making metal minis.
My brother has a squad of metal Stingwings for his Tau.
Dear God
I'm glad their heads no longer look like a squash or gourd with six eyes.
Space Marines were always meant to be the easy to build and paint army. Primaris was a course correction since the first born was actually starting to become more complex. I did wonder if the divergent chapters would be alternative more detailed chapters as an off ramp into more complex miniatures, but apparently not Blood Angels.
100% agree with this! I started back in 4th ed when things were still simpler. Over the editions I accepted many of the more detailed marines that came along, including dozens of characters. I always believed the characters should be the most detailed, thus providing us more of a challenge to make our HQ's and special units cooler and stand out on the table as they should. Every edition after we got spoiled with incredibly detailed models that honestly didnt leave much to the imagination for creating custom chapters of our own. I sort of fell off of Space Marines because of that fact and was one of few in my gamer group who really accepted the primaris range because it allowed so much freedom with large blank canvas of armor. Now that HH is a thing it has allowed me to whip out my old Death Guard and Salamander Armies and update those so I appreciate GW doing that at least
Ok the new vespids look cool
I'm glad their heads no longer look like a squash or gourd with six eyes.
Being honest I don't even think its a 40k issue as the guard, tyranids, kroot and Necrons look fantastic, I think its a power armour thing(Particulary space Marines), especially when you have over a dozen power armoured factions. the template gets boring.
Then why weren't the SangGuard more unique? If they were really burnt out on making basic power armor guys then why didn't they go hard on the most unique ones?
@@nothinghere2319 sorry I was trying to imply that game workshop see them as their money cow and are more likely to be lazy while xenos and normal humans don't have that safety net. Inconsistent of course because the new dark angels look great but the blood angels look just average
the new necron warriors are garbage, way to thin and frail looking for murder robots.
@@Adamantos-Elean each to their own, I personally like them because I think they reflect that fact they were impoverished civilians given the most basic materials compared to their lord's
They did a good job with the Black Templars and Dark Angels though. There's no excuse for the Blood Angels to get a meh refresh.
there is plenty of room in th3 40k universe to go wild with imagination though: successor chapters like the carcarridons, different guard regiments, ork vehicles, tyranid monsters and so much more. i wish they treated 40k more than just a way to make money
The thing i love about 30k is how everything has its own flair.
The solar auxiliaries and their tanks, the custom chapter specific dreads, the Characters theyre all unique and stand out against each other.
non codex compliant chapters in 40k have always been like that too though
I partly agree. Corteaz looks awful and even though I don't care about the Blood Angel changes much I get why people are upset, but the Dark Angels range refresh isn't long ago at all and those models were amazing, every single one of them. And when I look at Belial, Asmodai or the new Deathwing Knights, I don't get the feeling that they tried to pull back the detail on those models either, it's pretty much the same or more, just on a bigger Primaris canvas.
As for the Skaven comparison, I think it would only be fair to compare Skaven to the range refresh of the Tyranids as they were both the main villain of their edition. And are we now saying the new Tyranid models are bland and boring?
Look again at the old Deathwing knights, they did lose a lot of detail. But your point stands at least they got a half decent update and the inner circle companions are peak dark angel... Us blood angels got our two unique units butchered, one turned to half an upgrade sprue and one (that should have been a chance to really go all out) turned into some of the worst scuplts they have done for years
@@joesheridan9451 I think the dark angels were great, and as someone who has painted 15 of the new deathwing knights even if they are missing some detail there is still a ton there. The new blood angels really got screwed.
Entire Black Templars refresh was great too.
@@joesheridan9451I have the old Deathwing Knights and I believe the leg detail's removal was not a loss. Some old kits had way too much slapped on and the clean silouette of the new ones looks so much better
@@catcadev It wasn't just the legs it was the sheilds, the little cathedral style lights on top, the belt buckles... Also the old robes where soooo much better. Each one was completely unique and had a different cut/style. They had way more character you are just coping.
Also they didn't just steal the iconic Grey Knights helms.
Also your point about the legs doesn't make any sense because they still have leg decoration but now It's just boring generic stuff whereas before it was unique DA stuff.
I think what we are seeing is a shift of moving 40k into a direction as the middle ground game.
If combat patrol is your introduction (for comparison, an MTG precon deck), 40k is roughly the next step in the process (building a deck for Standard format from yoir colllection) for casual/lightly competitive players, and then the various specialty games are your esoteric "i am invested in this game" formats (EDH/Commander, Pauper, Cube, Modern, Legacy).
You get more flavor as you dig deeper in, and your commitment to the product line grows as you expand your collection, and that drive can be sparked by something as simple as "thats a super cool model".
nah i think bringing back Tau old gimmick of having allis to fit the gaps in their combat style good
a lot of people complan they were super one note of gun line
It's GW's hyperfocus on the imperium and SM. The design language for those factions is set and there not much else you can do with them. You could do some crazy fun stuff with xeno/chaos factions but those don't sell like SM do.
John Blanches incredible Black Templar illustration cover for 3rd édition was thé reason i got into 40k. I struggle to find it today, exept to kitbashing.
To be honest, I think some Primaris kits blow their firstborn counterparts out of the water. Intercessors come with so many options and straps and pouches, knife hands, cool heads, epic pauldrons, they're the perfect infantry kit and they also far surpass AOS' monopose infantry kits for Stormcast. The Sternguard (sure, not quite as many options as the old one. But also, there's only so much space on a sprue. My friend built them and gave me a bag of leftover bits from them, so the kit is really good.) The Terminators are beautiful. The Company Heroes are technically monopose, but they are gorgeous and look easy to convert. Heads and arms make all the difference. Not to mention they, also, far surpass the Company Command kit. The new Tyranids were phenomenal updates to old kits, and some stunning redesigns along with that.
People are getting negative on 40k, but I think that's because 40k hasn't been a focus at the moment. 40k is established, sure, but it has just as much direction to go in as AOS. They're renovating the range at the moment-- a range that is utterly massive and monumental compared to any other game. But, 40k still has a lot of room to go crazy. Votann were phenomenal inclusions with a super cool NASA space capitalist look. Sisters are still one of the craziest and coolest ranges, and the Lion and Dark Angels, even every Blood Angel kit which wasn't golden, were amazing. 40k just needs a bit of the weird back. IMO, a Sons of Malice special character and upgrade frame would be very cool. Vashtorr has the chance to bring in some insane, deranged new models. Again, 40k has an issue that people want the old stuff to be made new first. Tyranids needed an update, but Eldar, some Drukhari, Tau, so on still need updates as well.
I agree 100% the AoS stuff feels like a home run and the new 40k stuff as far as inquisition and blood angels feels like a strike and miss.
Simple solution is better upgrade kits.
The BA one should have had some wings, fancy shoulders and death masks.
And we need a generic space marine upgrade sprue.
I think with the Vespids and Tempest Aquilens (the Aquilens make me want to try Kill team and hope they can get rules for 40k or hopefully Elysian to return to the game) have made it incredibly obvious that Space Marines are supposed to be "The starter army"
And then mr gold baby was a mistake done by an intern
Based on interviews from former employees AoS has a lot more creative freedom and probably attracts more senior team members. Space Marines can be a low risk space for apprenticeship, Xenos players sticking with old models sure get excited for new minis but you still got to convince them to buy it same with all the AoS ranges. However the market for space marines is people buy space marines that's it painting, hobby, playing aren't the forefront of that market its the brand recognition. So it's a good space for less confident designers to cut their teeth and you can invest less time and creative effort because people will buy the new marine box for the brand. Until that changes in the market(which is mostly one off box now and then fans) for marines they will stay dull.
My personal theory is that GW shifted their highest performing designers to AOS for the launch of 4th edition to get more people interested in it. Now that the initial launch is over they’re shifting some of the modelers back
I think that once we get Emperor's Children 40k will be back on the menu.
I think that if that’s the case they’ll always bounce the main team back and forth so the “grass is always greener” while simultaneously saving time and money on half of their range development.
@@ThePigMensToesyea makes sense tbh, but at the same time we’ll probably get some pretty great models for both
I remember when people when complained about the excessive amount of bits in the some boxes, as it forced people to buy more boxes to field a full unit
They should have made the sanguinor a literal golden angel because hes literally a warp fella , could of been made as like a shard of the void dragon type model with4 massive wings and fire,electricity and doves coming from him.
I’m glad they brought up Old World! I have a full team of Normal Dwarves and don’t have to buy a thing!
I really love the new vespid. I have been looking forward to them for a long time. Now if only GW can release more auxiliary kits.
It's been a very lacklustre year for 40K (not including kill teams here). We've had 8 codex releases, but 6 of them had just one miniature released with them, each being another HQ choice. The Tau got the biggest realese with the Kroot refresh, Lone spear, hounds, 3 shapers, rider, rampager, and carnivore. The Dark angels similarly, got 3 characters and a squad. The total number of minis released is about the same as the skaven and stormcast getting in one month. On top of this, we've lost all the Forge World units as they've got shunted to legends. Feels very poor
I've noticed I've been more interested in AoS in a lot of ways. I like the lore more because I generally don't like the shift from everything being in-universe bias accounts/propaganda (the Heresy being the biggest). And AoS lore bing, or at least feeling, less centralised on a particular faction *cough*Imperium*cough*. The Stormcast don't have that MC feel the Space Marines have. And the models are just more characterful and interesting.
I think it's partly down to AoS being new-ish so they have more scope to do crazy stuff but also 40K is more-or-less the mainstream brand so it makes sense to have the Space Marines be normie friendly. I don't think that's a bad thing exactly but IMO that should only apply to basic bitch (Ultramarines) Space Marines and let the named chapters like the Blood Angels be different. Otherwise why have them at all? Though tbh the named chapters were always kinda Space Marines but a couple of different unites so whatever.
Am I saying that 40K needs to be End Times-ed? No. But if they did I wouldn't be against it either at this point.
I hope they bring back the dark Eldar auxiliary xenos
I think for basic marines such as intercessors, its better to have less options as they are standard units which you can customise to fit any chapter. I don't agree with making units like the Saunguinary Guard, which are very standout units in a Blood Angels army, more simplistic. It really takes away from having those cool looking centrepiece models in your army.
I agree and I think the Skaven amplify the contrast just because they are chaotic and crazy as opposed to the regimented soldiers that are space marines.
I feel that its as simple as aos does appeal to painters/hardcore painters more so than 40k. I distinctly remember a whole wave of frustration towards "over detailed" miniatures, perhaps this is a late response to that.
I think that they may also be a bit more constrained on choices they can make in the universe of 40K where they just don't want to take risks.
I feel like the leaders of the 40k art direction heard the complain of too much detail on the 40k miniatures and wanted to dial things back, leave now empty spaces for free hand detals etc... but I think the execution is not right, instead of simplified it looks simple in a bad way
I’ve been feeling more draw to AoS lately over 40k. And I think in part is because of the models. With the exception of a couple factions, I love every model in AoS. I know I’m going to enjoy building and painting AoS ranges, over 40k ones. Sure, I’ll finish my Guard and Dark Angels, but I’m going to enjoy my AoS collection so much more. Just my two cents here
Well their plan is working... they are better becasue they want you to spend more money to start (another) new army.
As someone who has over the last year gotten into both; I don't know for me that the more fun of Sigmar isnt in the models and releases necessarily. I personally find the overall flavor and soul of the game better than 40K. It's not that 40K isn't fun but after a while everything in 40K feels homogeneous. Kind of like the Taco Bell of game mechanics. Everything is just kind of a different version of what somebody else does in a different configuration. Whereas A of Sigmar every army feels wholy unique. The things that make the Army what it is are unique abilities and rules to them alone. I started playing 40K and got very into it and then switched over to Sigmar for fourth edition and I was blown away by how rich and engaging the game was not just mechanically but the way the narrative interacts with those mechanics. I haven't really played 40K in almost 8 months since I started collecting my two Sigmar armies
It’s like bad parents having two kids, one they don’t care about and the other they love. One becomes a functioning human while other is a prick
I think it's part of GW removing the grimdark from 40k to make it more mainstream, and they also make models less busy and more monopose to make building and painting easier. This happens every time a franchise tries to chase the "wider audience" rather than focusing on what made the franchise good in the first place.
Honestly, just this first launch box tells me we are about get some niche units that needed updates and possibly some returning discontinued units and units sent to legends . Already hearing the rumors of ratlings. I think KT needs to remain the model sector that experments with the vast setting of 40k. Already we have a newish 40k faction with the Imperial Agents and many of those kits coming from KT. Not to mention Krieg potentially becoming a full range again for the Militarum. Also the have teased a bit more of the Votann range with 2 KT's so Im looking forward to seeing what else comes in this edition and later for 40k.
How dare you Kiri, now i have to buy even more Into the AM T-Shirts. Aw well
That also happened to Infinity. It just started looking very uniform and samey from the miniatures that had a lot of character.
Not doint flyer guard as Elysian Drop troops is a big miss in my opinion, but I'm really happy about the Vespids. Tau need more different alien species...
I'm still into 40K, but since they snubbed my first army from the 9th edition just this month (Death Watch), I'll give 40K a second try and try to play my "Navis Imperialis"/not Rogue Trader and friends army because they look and feel cool.
Warhammer Underworlds is still the best Games Workshop game at the moment IMO (Warcry and other Age of Sigmar games might be also good, but I haven't played it much).
I started miniature gaming with Blood Bowl some 20 odd years ago, played a lot of other skirmish games from all over the world and I came back full circle into GW games.
They have great mini designs, but the game designs are mostly lackluster and didn't change their game-play design philosophy for over 30 years.
I don't see minis going that way still, but you're right about the Blood Angels I must say...
Don't do it - get out now before GW take all your money!
its the best game....but I haven't played the others much LOL
It would be nice if they could be super creative in both, but this is one of many reasons I get annoyed with the people who just hate AoS for not being Warhammer Fantasy (especially given how many of them seem to be basing their entire opinion on what AoS was when it first came out. *Almost ten years ago*
I think it’s mostly a Space Marine problem? Gw seems to believe that because they’re the starter army they need to make the vast majority of their models efficient and easy to paint. Because if look at all of this editions releases honestly most are great, but then we look at some of these Space Marine releases( the Starter army) Coteaz ( a model from an “army” clearly made for people who play kill team and might wanna make the leap into 40K) and yes they look bland, but everything else? Tyranids release was great, Necrons got some great character refreshes. Dark Angels got the Inner circle companions(?) Tau got the Kroot refresh, Chaos got… (Emperors Children is coming it’s fine) Orks got the new big Mek that’s mostly useless in Ork lists, and Custodes… sorry guys. The only miss is Ad mech Stilt Sniper, and some people really like that model.
I think 40K has just had a string of recent Ls and it’ll turn around
What is strange about the Blood Angels blandness is that GW had no trouble going super-gothic with the Black Templars refresh, or with Dark Angels. If they want to make the Codex compliant chapters more streamlined, that’s fine - play Ultramarines or Imperial Fists. But the non-compliant chapters should be tricked out. Let’s see what they do with Space Wolves… if it is also mehhh, then there might be a problem. Otherwise, I’ll view BA as a one-off swing and miss…though I do love my Blood Angels, so a painful miss
How dare you say nobody will miss them, you don't like Tau obviously. Do you even know about the psychic care bears?
I don't get the Vespid Stingwings, in the context of: GW just flat-out cut an entire chunk out of the Drukhari army (the resin Beastmaster et al), and haven't yet replaced the models with a plastic update. But let's update an ancient T'au model instead (???). Where's the Drukhari Beastmaster replacement models, GW? Huh?!
I'm still baffled by the Sanguinary Guard. I'm not a fan of the reduction to three models (both because of the loss of value compared to the previous kit and also on the rules/lore side), but that's been a thing for some veteran squads for a while now.
I actually like the base design of their armor, though I think Dante definitely has the superior legs, but for some reason the special unit of the most artistic Chapter/Legion all look the same with no individual details.
But most of all, they did design a Primaris Jump Pack with Wings for Astorath and the Sanguinor (both model updates I really like, though they could have made the Sanguinor's wings bigger), why in the Emperor's name didn't they reuse that design for the Sanguinary Guard?
Honestly, considering how successfull 40k is, and how much they want to boost up Age of Sigmar into a "coke and pepsi" style high-end with 40k, it makes sense that GW would pull a couple of their better model-producers off 40k and move them to AoS, give it a more 60-40 in terms of coolness, and try to get more folks into AoS rather than spending money on more 40k products that they KNOW will sell anyway even with lower effort...
I think the designers probably aren't allowed to take risks with the best-selling parts of the franchise. When i look at Xenos Miniatures, they still look great, the new lictor is prob one of my favorite Models and the new Big Mek also hits just right for me.
I think we see simular things within every artistic sector that is driven by the profit-motive. Movies, Shows, Videogames. When a franchise becomes extremely profitable it just gets milked for everything it's worth and (most likely due to pressure from investors) they start to become more and more generic and soulless to appeal to a larger audience. And investors don't really care about the long-term health of a franchise, they are completly fine with killing it in order to maximize their short-term profits.
Star Wars is a good example, most of the new stuff released is not great, the franchise just gets milked for all its worth. But then they make a show about a character that most people probably forgot about and Andor becomes arguably the best piece of Star Wars Media we got since the originial trilogy. Same with videogames, 3A games usually are extremly generic, games often get released long before they are actually finished and the devs are getting ruthlessly exploited. But that is ultimatly what creates the best profits. Art cant flourish within a system that is driven by the profit motive and i think thats kinda what happens with some parts of 40k too
Unpopular opinion: space marines.
the unfortunate reality is that a lot of 40k models are garaunteed to sell; space marines are losing their bling but space marines will always sell like crazy - the 40k game has a lot more popularity than AoS so age of sigmar genuinely has to try in order to get people to buy their models - i can't think of a range in AoS that will fly off of the shelves like space marines and among my friends they collected a lot of skaven; models that were old and outdated until this point in time.
i do think the primaris range is capable of being cool - indomnitus had all of those cool bladeguard units in that box as well as the judiciar and ancient which were all dope models and genuine upgrades to the base primaris. unfortunately they just seemed to really drop the ball with the blood angels as well as some of the previous primaris releases (what the hell are those desolation squad guns???). games workshop just decides to be safe and remove a lot of that flair... which makes me worried for the space wolves range. are they going to lose all of their customization? are we going to lose their unique dreadnoughts? are we losing the wolves and thunderwolf cavalry? after all, other chapters can't benefit from them...
it confuses me because they're slowly reaching a point where they simply can't make up more default space marines without bloating the range even further - there's only a handful of units that need updating (centurions, vanguard veterans, assault squad termies). they should really be making the unique chapter marines as good as possible instead of removing those cool things and removing models/units.
Gameswork shop are basically opening the door for 3d printers and 3rd party suppliers to go 'you want to make your marines look special, heres a whole load of doobie chats to glue on them to give them personallity'. Meanwhile GW keep their production costs even lower because they don't spend any time on refining there designs.
I actually always assumed vespids would get an update, and I made a bet with friends it would probably be via killteam. They make a lot of smaller skale 40k projects into kill teams. Kasrkin is an excellent example of a killteam that was an update to an old beloved kit.
What I *WAS* surprised by was that they did not make the opponents Elysians. I also always assumed that the various guard regiments would never make a full return to 40k, but would have a killteam box release similar to deathkorps or Kasrkin.
Im going to side with the simple theory that Warhammer/AoS will always be GWs first love, whether its the fan's favorite or not.
The BA stuff feels so meh because compare it to the last divergent chapter to get a refresh, the new Dark Angels stuff is SPECTACULAR from start to finish, the Blood Angels stuff has been. Just a bit naff in comparison. So i don't think it's ALL new space marine minis, i hope they have some good surprises for us later on.
Can't wait for my swooping hawks to be updated so they can replace the wings with a jump pack 😂
The problem is the space marines they need to make marines more diverse from one another and customization better.
I guess they were somewhat stuck for Inquisitors unless they want to fend off Disney lawyers bringing back Obiwan Sherlock Clousseau
Maybe they were putting all of their effort into the rumored upcoming Space Wolves release. That's a lot of pelts and wolf heads they have to design after all?
I think there are still really good model releases. We've had two bad releases Vespids were great, Night Lords were great, Asmodai goes hard, the Death Knights and Inner Circle companions look amaaazing! Sure, most Blood Angel releases weren't great, Astorath looks amazing!
Let's not lose hope from two bad 40k releases!
I’ve noticed this dumbing down of character in the space marine range for quite a while. As a result, I’m attempting to make the MOST visually homogeneous space marine army possible.
The simple answer is ip is better for the mini design team
Oh. Believe me, I would have noticed the absence of Vespids. I love the idea of the Tau being a race that doesn't obliterate their enemies but obsorbs them into their empire. It's an interesting twist on the other armies which just kill and destroy. But in terms of models this so called Empire consists of Tau themselves, Kroot and Vespids. That is all. Less British Empire with it's quarter of the globe but more the German Empire with it's sausage factory in Tanzanikka (little Blackadder reference for you all lol.) I want more Tau Empire, not less. So I'd have been fuming if they got rid of the Vespids all together. Then again, I'm kind of annoyed that they didn't take the opportunity to make a new species to join the empire. Keep the old Vespids and add a 4th race to the Empire. But oh well. I've been desperate for GW to bring back all the weird and wonderful regiments of the Imperial Guard too but that seems like it's never going to happen.
The generic marines and Dark Angels models were good this edition, as were the Xenos (even if most of them were "here's your one hq, better luck next time"). Maybe 40K's sculptors are finally sick of "guys in power armour" and can only afford to design so many of them per edition before they go full auto. Hopefully this inspiration problem doesn't apply to the Chaos factions, I want damn Juggernaut Berserkerz.
I think its part of a greater change in the demeanour towards the 40k property, an ultimate lack of passion or consideration for the lore is why most new models dont hit the spot. Imo
The biggest problem with 40K is that ultimately, Space Marines are boring. To make a Star Wars: New Hope (or Star Wars as it was known in my day) analogy, Space Marines are the Stormtroopers other factions are the rebels - which was more interesting. It can't be accessibility for new players as a lower price point would be the way to do this, however by basically having the same figure with a different backpack/shoulder pad/helmet development costs are much lower therefore more profit from their biggest selling line. Cynic - moi!
The mantra to follow:
We are not the target audience
We are not the target audience
We are not the target audience
Its like you said but I'll phrase it different.
With warhammer 40k becoming more Mainstream you need the poster boys as easy to get into as possible. Less detail? = easier to paint.
More generic design? Easier to recognize as a person who grew up with halo.
Less customization? = easier to build a squad and buy another unit.
Ect.
Same for Coteaz, less details easier to paint.
The only thing I dont get is why black templar went crazy but Blood Angels dont.
Dark Angels were a weird thing inbetween.
To me the only thing I can think of is that the blood angel refresh actually is older than black templar or dark angels ones, but delayed the release.
And what I forget: for the older customer base: here are some awesome AOS sets you can buy for Kitbashing, what do you think?
I think it's "make easier to paint"...since SMs/the Imperium are largely the entry point for new people into the hobby, especially if there's still a hope that the Amazon show actually sees the light of day
This is why I dread the remaking of the space wolves. Sure we can joke about how much it's wolf wolf wolf wolf but at LEAST they have personality. Considering how customisation is getting shoved away, I fear we will lose the grey hunters, the long fangs and things that makes them themselves. We will get ultramarines with some wolves trinket. The Black Templars gave me some hopes, it's not as over the top as used to BUT it is still pretty unique. So until then I'll stick to Horus Heresy which I feel is where the real customisation is happening.
The dark angels range refresh was pretty great, and besides the Sangy guards, the new BA models are neat. I am confident the bolterdog refresh will be pretty good.
Remember the Hounds of Morkai? That's exactly what you're describing - reivers with some trinkets added.
I think they will pull off the Space Wolf updates. The Wolves sometimes went too far into that, and a reduction and redesign would do a lot. Looking at the range, Blood Claws and Grey Hunters could be one kit. Blood Claws as a base, and an upgrade frame for Grey Hunters. The Terminators getting an upgrade would be great, and if you do the rune and iron priests, the character side will be covered. I would also make an extra sprue for a Redemptor with the Claws, shield, and axe as well as a few greeblies and a fur pelt. That would be a really good refresh to me
Painting crowd: We want more plane space on our models so we can free hand designs.
GW: Oh, okay. Here you go, less detail so your skill can shine.
Modeling crowd: YOU STOLE CHARACTER AWAY FROM OUR MODELS!
GW: *facepalm*
I'll admit I'm a boring and pragmatic person so what they've been doing with 40K doesn't bother me too much but I do feel sorry for everyone else I can see where people are coming from
My most optimistic guess is that because of how 40K is kind of getting into the mainstream and with that new people coming to The Hobbit they don't want painting miniatures to seem so intimidating at least at first and that hopefully they'll release option sets in the future to spice up the aesthetic details to some of these
My middle of the road guess is simply that who's ever in charge of managing the design of 40K minis is just kind of getting lazy
And my most pessimistic guess would be Games Workshop knows 40K is getting more popular and more people are buying into the models so they rather go with quantity instead of quality making the models more simple so they can be simpler to print and ship out and sell the cut down on cost
AoS is superior in every way.. but 40K players have invested so much and the cost of entry is so high.
Warhammer 40k is in maintnance mode, for now their audience is a captive one, many a company have faltered on the assumption that a captive audience is a permanent thing that just need minimal maintnence, so they just play it safe, and about becoming bland, welcome Kirioth to what you like morphing into a "Mainstream" thing this day and age, where to attract the "wider audience" they shave off all the edges untill it is irrecognizable.
There are a few chices the obivious ones are to: Find a new thing to take its place, be it now or latter, for all will come to an end, or fight to preserve it, just beware, that is a massive uphill battle when dealing with publicly traded companies, for by law they are obliged to saciate the neverending greed of shareholders
GW is still in a state of confusion over what makes good models. AOS only got good models when they brought back the gothic styling of warhammer fantasy.
40k still hasn’t quite realized that the only good marine models they’ve made recently, with some exceptions, basically look like upscaled classic marines.
Because all the best sculptures are sent to AoS and small games. And the 'normal' ones are sent to 40k. Haha. I've been saying this for years now.
we've reached full ouroboros status with space marines, those old models have become too iconic or nostalgic to the point where we end up with the new versions of those models that are just updated with somehow less detail, even if those old models are complete ass. anytime gw have to make a model for something with no nostalgic value where they don't have monumental nostalgia standards to live up to they cook pretty hard.
edit: what im saying is, not a single person on earth is nostalgic enough about astorath to justify his new model keeping that goofy ass pose
Space marines don't have a lot of character unless you have read all the books all the lore, but when you look at them you see a chonky blue/yellow/etc stormtrooper , where stormtroopers are the posterchild of generic soldier bc Lucas designed them that way. But when you look at a clanrat, a stealhelm or even at a Sigmarine (Stormcast Eternal) you just see so much character just in the sculpt.
Quick second point, GW wants you to believe that 40k is a serious ip and Fantasy is more goofy, and for some reason that means "more serious minis"
Just make nice updated versions of the squatty marines. That's all we want, not standard primaris with new paint and three holsters. Just make the Sanguinary guard primaris scaled, that was all we needed. Instead they literally copied their wings.
Latest shock/horror new SM chapter are going to be marketed in Beige
I came back to the hobby with 40k in 8th, and every wierd and out there model that came out in that time was met with loud complaints by the player base. Think about how archeopters, pteraxii, and the various serberys riders were received. Or the phobos and desolation marines. Or the paragon warsuits. I don't want to defend any of those, though I do love all the weird admech stuff, but Imperial players, especially space marine players, have done very little but complain. And these models are just a toe in the ocean of Imperial releases, most of which look great.
I forget where I originally heard it, but I remember hearing that the Space Marine releases are paying for the design of everything else that GW puts out. If the 40k suffers because the low-effort designs are being made there so the more intense and crazy stuff can be made elsewhere, while it makes me nervous I can at least accept it.
That said, comparing the poses of the Prosecutors in Skaventide to the Sanguinary Guard is heartbreaking
I think the answer is blindingly obviously, 40k sells, has sold, and will always sell, no matter how good it looks, especially Space Marines.
In stark comparison, the other game systems don't have a captive audience and so they need to draw you in with something else, like incredibly well designed models.
I think this is proved by things like the new Kroot too, those models need to look good to sell, because thats the only way they'll even begin to get close to the level of sales that Space Marines get.
And its a matter of degrees, SM can be bland because they'll sell no matter what, true captive audience. Next degree, Tau, Orks, Tyrannids ect, have to be interesting in order to sell but has some degree of automatic buy in from commited players.
3rd degree, AOS, Kill Team, Necromunda ect, very small or nonexistent captive audience, needs to entice you by looking dope as fuck
It feels like GW has almost given up on 40k? I see and hear almost nothing but disappointment and negativity, compared to the other systems.
Is that just me, or is this a real thing?
Xenos are cool tho. More they are bit afraid meadling with imperium
Just the recent whining tbh. Agents were disappointing (like pretty much everyone expected) and the sanguinary guard lost their wings. The negativity is mostly recency bias, 10th was kinda good so far, besides the abysmal balance for the first few months but that is expected. The leviathan models were great, the DA refresh is awsome, the Tau kroot are nice. The price hike hurt, but people act like 40K did not get good models in the past 12 months.
Its insanely obvious, they want more people to play to make more money. AOS at launch is like 20% revenue, and no one owns a single army "Buy this center piece for this army... but i know you want to start another", they need more money, its GW
Did they ever release that Inquisition kill team boxed set?
They came out months ago.
I think this is a product of many pro painters asking for less detailed sculpts constantly (especially ones with huge platforms like RUclips).
People still on the fritz about trying AoS. GW needed something to bring people in. So they upped the quality of their minis. For 40K, that's their bread & butter in terms of profits. People will buy anything 40K so there's no need in GW's eyes to make their models fancy by comparison.
Simplify now to sell additional complexity down the road. Sell the unit twice. Make more moneys.
Is that a new model of the Dark Emissary, from the fantasy range?
got coteaz yesterday, had hoped for something better then the photos, its worse, a lot worse. large as a primaris and yet less detailed then second edition starter pack space marine, diapers, and elephant feet. Only save, is kitbash with the parts that are ok, and its the hammer, shoulder and cape.
Sometimes 40K reminds me of Spider-Man or Batman in comics. The incredible money makers for the company that can never change or rock the boat. Because Marvel or DC would rather have high selling mediocrity than new things that might not sell as well. That is where 40K is at to me
I think they know with space marines they dont gotta try very hard people will buy em