That’s true. But there are other things to consider both pro Mac and pro pc here. The higher power consumption and noise, the fact that you can upgrade the PC in the future, the fact that the Mac is much smaller, the fact that it runs a proprietary OS, the fact that Mac on ARM still has a lot of optimization ahead for intensive tasks. There’s just a lot here that makes an apples to apples comparison (no pun) a little hard to make
@@philamavikane9423 It actually is. 3090s are below 2000 now, not at 2650 as they state. And you can get a 3080 or 3080ti which has 90-95% the performance of the 3090, especially in many cases where the GPU isnt used heavily anyways
2 points to make here, 1- you can make a very silent mini pc with size comparable to the Mac and also water cooled with a mini ITX build and 2- all parts readily available at microcenter. You could've totally asked Asus for that kind of build if it was a contention point for the comparison.
I don’t think an itx build would be worth it cramming in the graphics card along with other parts. It would probably run hotter and have lower performance than the full size pc.
There are multiple reasons for this: 1. The 12900k has 8P+8E cores, so 8 performance and 8 efficiency cores. The M1 Ultra has 16P+4E cores. That means Apple can afford to keep clocks low and keeping performance still quite high. 2. The 12900k is a furnace of a CPU by default. Even lowering power draw to 175W barely reduces performance. 2.1. The M1 Ultra has access to a lot of memory bandwidth due having lots of memory channels. That helps it a lot when scaling in GB5 for example where floating point loads love memory bandwidth. 3. The M1 series of chips is being currently built on one of the best nodes available, TSMC N5. No similar class processors are currently using it, and logic wise, it is very dense and very efficient, allowing you to make great designs. 4. ZoneofTech didn't exactly pick a small case. There are much smaller cases that perform similarly or better. 5. HW acceleration: by utilizing dedicated ASICs/media engines, when you don't need the highest efficiency possible, they can be used for maximum speed and whatnot. 6. For a decent amount of workloads, programs are just better optimized for macOS specifically, whereas some other apps on Windows aren't really(either by a lack of GPU acceleration or utilization of dedicated HW). Overall, a decent video, but I'd have preferred a much more "optimized" build on the DIY side. Could have made it cheaper, quieter, perform better, be smaller, and quieter :)
@@neutronpcxt372 "ZoneofTech didn't exactly pick a small case." this MF went eATX, he could have gone Micro ATX, it looks ridiculous next to the studio, I kind of think those cases look ridiculous in general unless you have an insane build that calls for the space.
@@neutronpcxt372 at first the comparison of x86 and arm isn't legit at all. X86 is wholly way more powerful instruction wise. To complete a task, x86 does 9 cycles per instruction. Where arm has 1 to 1 ratio. That's why lighter applications and optimized programs will be seen faster in arm. But x86 can handle way more difficult and complicated programs with an ease what arm can't run properly without efficient transcoding. Secondly, 12900k actually has lower sustainable power draw than 175w. In gaming it somewhat draws way less sustainable power. Thirdly, it's actually called process node. And n5 is the binning process. In electrical engineering, nodes mainly refer the interconnections or junctions between two or more elements of an electrical circuit. Otherwise you were pretty much on point. You seem to be primarily a pc user, otherwise Apple users don't have much knowledge about these. Not even these apple based so called tech youtubers except snazzy lab and few others.
I would be interested in replacing the 3090 with a proper VRAM GPU like an A6000 and a Xeon/Epyc. That's a more apples to apples comparison. Editing and gaming take VASTLY different priorities, and yes, the $$$ would heavily favor the Mac, but I can guarantee an Epyc/a6000 combo would outright destroy the Mac in editing, without even breaking a sweat.
You're right, but unfortunately, they will keep doing the wrong benchmark over and over again, for sure they will test the A6000 with another videogame and a Xeon with a quick rendering test (automatic and not editable at all) and exporting photos.
@@mitchjames9350 the thing is, apples own suite actually shreds m, performance wise, the render times on like, final cut, are LUDICROUS on these new machines. It’s just, it’s a fundamentally new platform that has hidden a lot of its teething issues with a very effective emulator and a lot of purpose built encoders, but honestly, judging from how some apps are still changing lots performance wise with updates + the fact that as a rule, Rosetta apps run 30-40 percent slower, we still have a ways to go. That’s not to praise Apple too much, just an observation from working with some of these machines. There’s some extreme performance disparities from update to update and app to app even in like-like comparisons
Not a big fan of apple but i know non of these pcs match apple performance....plus size and all that stupid cooling apple doesn't need to match that performance....
You could build that PC in an ITX case. The main differences are: - mac supports mac native software (developers & artists) which can be a deal breaker - windows runs things like CAD software and gaming way better Those two things are literally the main deciders IMO. For just work the m1 mac mini is great for most
I would liked to see a comparison test for more engineering tasks like development (app, OS) and ML/AI. From past experience, custom PC is typically the way to go. And what makes custom PC so attractive is you can upgrade components far easily compared to the MAC.
In this case, the memory is in the SoC, so no upgrade there at all. And the "SDD" is not a full SDD as the controller is on the SoC and you cannot buy some bigger one (maybe Apple will sell them at some point).
For compiling C++ the M1 (and M2) blows x86_64 based machines out of the water. I haven't seen ML training benchmarks yet. I doubt Tensorflow has been property optimized for M* yet so until that happens my guess is the custom PC is going to blow M* out of the water.
The bonus of a pc is that you can upgrade it anytime, and with a proper MB you can literally get multiple gpus and cpus installed, so if you're wanting to run 4 shadow of the tomb raiders on max graphics on like 4 monitors you can do that
Even when the Mac Studio receives optimisation in some apps later in 2022, one can sell the RTX3090 for a decent price and upgrade to the 4080/90. Probably save a few thousand too and can enjoy a wider range of apps and games. The Studio is a beautiful and efficient tool for a niche group of creative professionals. That’s about it!
"The Studio is a beautiful and efficient tool for a niche group of creative professionals" well said, it's rad asf but not something most people can properly utilize
I would go for the 3080 with a cheaper motherboard. However, it is incredible that the M1 chip is built on ARM, earlier mostly used in smartphones! The small mobile processor technology has evolved so fast since the first smartphones and I am pretty sure ARM will surpass the x64 processors pretty soon which will lead to much smaller and less power-hungry devices
If you're looking for portable PCs you should delve into the exotic realm of the sub-10L pc builders. They got these portable PCs down with very little performance compromise.
Great video, I appreciate all that you put out. I want to make two points. First: Lack of components and prices are easing up. GPU prices are nearly at MSRP. Secondly the Mac Studio cannot natively run windows, as you put it (unless find an ARM copy of windows) - you need to run it in a VM. This is true for the PC, it can run macOS, while questionably legal, its technically possible.
DDR5, Case and CPU cooler are there to artificially increase the price of the pc! Not to mention the PSU which can also be a cheaper yet equivalent performance one so yes you can get a better than mac studio performance wise pc with a much lower price than 5000 USD
@@kieran9882 You are right but the video was made when the GPU market inflation was beyond the sky but even then it was still more logical to invest on a PC beast than a 0 futureproof apple box
I would stick to a PC, after seeing those results it looks like the PC build was underclocked and slowed down. I also don't see how its so loud unless you put the fan speed way past whats needed
Trying putting the M1 Ultra in their cheese-grater case with sufficient cooling which might enable a higher clock speed. This might allow them to draw more power and ultimately more performance due to greatly enhanced heat dissipation. Results will be a lot different.
Just a reminder, This is not the highest end apple silicon, it's just the one available at the moment. both are impressive, kudos to Mac studio for pushing that high being that small
im gonna be honest. the mac studio is a product i genuinely respect from apple. its priced fair for the performance it puts out. ofcourse macs arent for gaming, but there's so many other factors to consider. The size of the destop is huge, the noise, i know some people like bright lights and rgb but I personally like the matte toned down finish of the studio. Would personally go for a mac but obviously windows offers a much bigger advantage due to some programs only on windows and who doesn't like a bit of gaming on the side.
5:51 You can make a PC passively cooled if you want, cutting sound levels to near zero. There's also plenty of computer parts that provides active cooling with far less noise then this. As for pricing, get AMD parts, their availability is higher so their prices aren't as inflated.
@@geckygeck8999 Of course not a 3090, not in air anyway, but seriously, you don't *need* a 3090 for video editing and studio work. And if you are willing to buy a third party passive cooler you don't *have* to go *that* much down the stack to get something that'll work passively. You can passively cool a 200 W GPU with air. 300+ There's a limit to what you can do with convection of air. At a certain point you have to submerge your system in order to get passive cooling that's sufficient for your parts.
Why this channel has only 1.26 million subscribers is beyond me...... Daniel and the team deserve way more than this. Excellent content with informative comments, neat and to-the-point presentations, as well as the channel's honest and objective review of almost all Apple products, simply make this channel the number one place to get first hand information on the Apple eco-system. Keep up the momentum, Daniel!
I wonder how the Apple pre made machine would stand up against a Dell pre made machine, or an HP, or another named PC that came pre made. The ability to cherry pick your pieces should mean you can get the best performance from the kit.
if you are spending that kind of money, you should be able to cherry pick. Atleast with a custom built PC you can change whatever you want after the fact.
Once a mac fails you have to probably replace the whole thing. For PC all you do is replace a component easily. Macs are still amazing and efficient machines. Its a shame PCs cant be as efficient. Its an easy choice, PC. Most of the components can be reused over a long period of time.
We all knew that Apple was dicking around with their comparison as they usually do by not being specific at all and that the 3090 was going to be faster. However, I am impressed just how close it got to the PC, considering price, size, power draw and noise. I am very impressed.
Their Apple silicon is truly revolutionary. They just really shouldn't be saying things that aren't true. How did they measure it "being faster than the fastest discrete gpu"? it's clearly not true, and people will notice, and they will focus on it. The M1 CPU got 85 % of the 12900K's multithreaded score using 23 % of the wattage, and that's absolutely something to be applauded.
Surely for a lot of us it’s the os. I have a pc running w11 as well as a venerable Mac Pro 5,1. I can’t wait to get an m1 max to save load up times. Has anyone said how long the Mac studio takes from button to ready? Oh, and did you forget to include longevity in your comparison?
So a 300 hundred dollar case, a 400 dollar cpu cooler, a 200 dollar ssd, the 3090 sells for 1500 now, you meant a 3000 dollar pc at most if you don't use overpriced components that change nothing to performance.
This review is flawed by the prices sadly , those pc components don’t actually costs that much Edit : also if you buy exclusive asus rog componentes of course the price is going to be through the roof
@@TheStopwatchGod You can build this system with way better cooling for less than the Mini Ultra. He just has a partnership with Asus which most of the time are very expensive parts. With reasonably priced ones, its easy. U can have a 9 fan case with A 420 AIO around 120$ and 6 more fans for around 30 bucks and make this system very quiet. Fans pretty much use no power, especially since they wont run at over 50% because its not needed. I would say with lowering power limits and undervolting, you can get the PC at little above the power consumption as the Mac with much more performance.
Hey there. Thank you so much for the comparison. I finally end up buying pc with Threadripper and dual RTX 3080s for blender and game development. And it also can game smoothly. Again Thanks a lot. Keep making videos like these.
@@johnfr2389 general GPU compute as well as machine learning. I haven't seen any games that really leverage machine learning on the client beyond DLSS but it is an option that could be used if he wants, and even if not he still has the ability to tinker with it as a hobby.
@@johnfr2389 dual gpus for faster rendering, for studios and blender artist its kinda in need for them to get a higher gpu memory such as the 3090 in their system. Ive seen other blender artists made a 10 second video of a magical pot pouring a magic water animation and it made them "ONE MINUTE AND 45 SECONDS PER FRAME TO LOAD THE WHOLE 10 SECOND VIDEO ANIMATION" idk what their gpu used. acquiring 2 gpu in your mobo needs the SLI bridge but for most games doesnt support sli bridge which is too bad and result shows its like only 1 gpu is working for the non sli supported games
Benchmarks are interesting, because you can optimize for them as a developer. I just watched a video where this guy shows how his PC is built up with better specs than his M1 Pro 14" MacBook Pro and the PC can export a Premiere timeline faster, but in actual editing, the M1 Pro MBP could scrub the timeline smoothly without a hiccup. The PC was struggling to render the timeline as he scrubbed. Even though the PC was technically faster when you compare stats, actual usability was better on the Mac.
I enjoy your content and this was no different. I think a fairer test would have been equal cost and equal size as you can manage. Though best to wait until optimisations are done.
PC for sure. there are some places you can save money and still outperform that MAC for less money. Hardware aside, I'm also not exclusively shackled to the Apple ecosystem.
If you count the Windows on Arm beta for the Mac (which is neither supported by Apple nor Microsoft), then you should also count an unofficial install of Mac Os on a PC. As a developer, guess what, i just need all three operating systems. And at the moment the x86/x64 version of Windows is way more important to me. That might change some day, but it also might not. The days were i loved my Mac for running Windows, Linux and Mac Os natively, are almost over when my Intel 2020 Mac is dead or no longer supported…
I agree with you, and I think we have been effectively forced to have both a Mac and a PC if you are developing for both platforms. Though the closest to a single machine solution would be buying an M based Mac, as Parallels seems to be doing a good job with its virtual environment for running i86 Windows on Apple silicon. (As long as Apple supports i86, you could do it the other way round, sort of anyway, using VMWare to run MacOS on windows, but the lack of any sort of graphics acceleration support makes MacOS VMs almost unusably slow. And while running a Hackintosh is an option while Apple supports i86, doing that is so often so complex and flakey, it's would not the way to go for professional work, from my perspective anyway. With computers losing so much of their value as they age, it's a no brainer to simply buy an older machine of the variety that you don't prefer to have as a primary machine.)
You can still outperform the mac studio in most things “creatives” will be doing with a 3060 and an 8 core amd processor for like 2000$. Not to mention the freedom of being able to do whatever you want with it.
@@Teluric2 That is nonsons. Many are self employed and do care about the powerbill. I do. And i know others too that are playing with power saving / performance.
I guess that PC should be benchmarked against the Mac Pro when it comes out, and the Mac Studio should be benchmarked against something like the HP Z2 Mini or the Lenovo ThinkStation P350 Tiny.
with Intel chip Yes but with M1 chip u can't run nothing but MacOS unless you're using Parallel which kinda limited when it comes to some linux versions such as Ubuntu
@@TheRealGigaCat Yeah because it's new and it lacks a ton of features like access to proper GPU drivers. Needs a ton of work before it can be recommended to anyone but people who seriously want it or are further helping development
I would honestly never think about getting any mac or apple pc, for me it just makes no sense for me. not to even mention, if I wish to upgrade a lot I simply can. Change video card? You can without an issue, Get Ryzen en most you can simply switch as well and so on. Without needing a completely new system
@@philamavikane9423 for in the future.... like in 2 years I want a better cpu, then guess what... I can... simply swap it. that is why... because I need power for what I do with 3d animations.... so the question, is why would I not?
It’s basically like this: those that enjoy working on cars and those that don’t; personally I am not an apple fan given their stance against right to repair and all their bs tactics they use to discourage people to upgrade n customize. Worse are the ponytail wearing condescending BEztA males they employ whom get off on lecturing you on how battery changes are “dangerous,” all while ignoring perfectly legitimate counter arguments such as: I’m fine changing my car battery without a Chernobyl style meltdown occuring. Macs are fine for school and some business use situations but not for people that want full control, and actually enjoy building
Max's audience is also far more Apple biased than this one. I've had far more run ins with apple fan boys there. Here you at least get a good mix of both apple and windows people who are reasonable
the pc is the better choice since it has expantability and better performance unless you are taking your computer to the cafe that is what you should always go for
Good review, thanks! Windows at work in the Office, MacOS after that. It's all about the Magic track pad and being able to move to different pages. Haaa! If I gamed I'd probably have a reason to go back to Windows. When we went from Win7 to 10, I lost my mind and bailed. Might do the Studio Max but my 2018 Mac mini i7 is about all I need for now.
I have 3090 pc and have always used pcs but bought a studio and very happy with. The lack of heat and noise is so much nicer and photoshop/ resolve open faster and seem to run a bit better. The PC hasn’t been turned on in over a week now
Intel is coming back. Raptor Lake is launching later this year, and then Meteor Lake next year. I'm excited to see how M2 stacks up against Raptor Lake/Meteor Lake and Zen4. x86 ain't dead yet. Intel also has some wild designs coming with Lunar Lake, Nova Lake and beyond. Competition is great for us consumers...
The mac Pro is directed towards studio use so portability shouldn't be in mind if you want portability get a laptop They have their own ups and downs but building your own PC will provide better results than a prebuilt The mac for its size is pretty incredible but for studio use where it'll just sit in place the size doesn't really matter (to a certain point ofc)
m1 ultra is very impressive chip, not falling really far away from pc while keeping itself cool, silent and at lower power consumption but there is more on market than intel, i would love to see m1 ultra comparison to a 5950X which has lower temps and power consumption and higher multicore score compared to 12900k, not to mention ryzen 7000 is about to release this year, but we're here and now, so let's ignore that also while 3090 does make a difference, i don't think it is a $2500 difference, not to mention that this mac can actually game, like for real i'm far from being a apple fanboy, much further to the other side actually, but mac studio is very impressive for what it is, and especially for how much it is
@@drabberfrog hahahhahahahah so you need a funny box to get your job done? Ok if you re a teen " hey boss we couldnt finish the jobs because my pc looks boring"
Don't have money to buy any of these but, danm! That was a honest review. Very balanced and well put together. Even though Asus provided the componets u still called a spade a spade. U jst got a sub👍🏽
Did you buy the biggest possible PC case to make it look bigger next to the Mac studio? eATX is insanely huge, regular ATX would have been much more representative of a normal PC people would get, you could also go micro ATX and make it MUCH more comparable to the Studio if you care about portability
It’s obviously no surprise that the ASUS PC did better than the Mac Studio in gaming and raw. But I still prefer the Mac Studio just because of the premium look, portability and access to MacOS.
Pointless in many parts. You could easily build the PC smaller, cooler, cheaper, silent, so you cant rate it. Expandability in my opinion is total on the (ram, ssd, graphic). The real Point for the Apple is: Power consumption ( we really must give them high credits here) and Marketing.
You forgot to add the cost of the addition you would need to build on your house to store the PC as a way to handle the heat and noise it generates. Considering the climate crisis our planet finds itself in, I think the ratio of performance/energy consumption needs a higher place in your comparison.
You don't need to build your house around the PC. You not only can change out the case you can also make it significantly quieter too. Plus not everyone gets their power from fossil fuels. Yes power consumption is important but it's not the biggest deal in a desktop. Plus over the past 10 years there have been significant changes in our power grid to not only be far more efficient but also significantly cleaner, things are only improving from here on out
Custom PC is like building a racing car with lots of HP and TQ. you change all your parts etc…Max is like a Ferrari just comes built!! PC has way more options etc…
Max doesnt have the quality of a ferrari stop dreaming. Ferrari is made of the best components money can buy while max is not by far. My wife has 2 macbooks and I can say its not top quality the lid is too soft people think that because mac looks expensive they re made og high quality materials but not. I hate the keyboard is too shallow when I press the key Why apple works so hard in making a pretty mac? Because most mac users like looks and being cool I know because I m married to a uberfan girl
It only costs that much because of inflated prices, The parts cost way less at MSRP he is just paying more but in actual sense the parts are way less under normal circumstances. Because for the GPU alone he paid $1000 above what he is supposed to under normal circumstances.
when you can pick cheaper parts, smaller case, better processors and quiter fans/stealthier build but went with what u did i knew right away u don't have any hidden agenda so bravoooo..
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
If not for inflated prices on pc parts and components, that PC would probably be $500 to $1000 cheaper.
That’s true. But there are other things to consider both pro Mac and pro pc here. The higher power consumption and noise, the fact that you can upgrade the PC in the future, the fact that the Mac is much smaller, the fact that it runs a proprietary OS, the fact that Mac on ARM still has a lot of optimization ahead for intensive tasks. There’s just a lot here that makes an apples to apples comparison (no pun) a little hard to make
But it’s not🤣🤣
@@philamavikane9423 But it will be troll. Prices are going down and will continue to go down.
@@dez4647 nothing trolling about saying currently building your own pc is very expensive.
@@philamavikane9423 It actually is. 3090s are below 2000 now, not at 2650 as they state. And you can get a 3080 or 3080ti which has 90-95% the performance of the 3090, especially in many cases where the GPU isnt used heavily anyways
2 points to make here, 1- you can make a very silent mini pc with size comparable to the Mac and also water cooled with a mini ITX build and 2- all parts readily available at microcenter. You could've totally asked Asus for that kind of build if it was a contention point for the comparison.
I have 8 artic fans running at 55% and I can't hear them at all.
I agree with your first point, but problem with your second point is that micro centers aren't easily accessible to people outside the USA
"...all parts readily available at microcenter". Yeah, undoubtedly. 'cause all the people in this world live in the USA, don't they?...
I don’t think an itx build would be worth it cramming in the graphics card along with other parts. It would probably run hotter and have lower performance than the full size pc.
👏
The 3090 is actually 1500USD MSRP... The scalped prices are absolutely insane
I just spent $1,500 on an RTX 3080 Ti
GPU prices make we want to declare war on scalpers
And 2650 which they say is just crazy, atm its around 2000, they just invented prices or took them 3 months ago.
@@froznfire9531 ikr seems like they recorded this a long time ago. Market is currently doing a massive flip
@@Jwellsuhhuh APR 7
I just don’t understand how apple to manage to get decently close to a high end pc in such a small frame. Truely crazy
There are multiple reasons for this:
1. The 12900k has 8P+8E cores, so 8 performance and 8 efficiency cores. The M1 Ultra has 16P+4E cores. That means Apple can afford to keep clocks low and keeping performance still quite high.
2. The 12900k is a furnace of a CPU by default. Even lowering power draw to 175W barely reduces performance.
2.1. The M1 Ultra has access to a lot of memory bandwidth due having lots of memory channels. That helps it a lot when scaling in GB5 for example where floating point loads love memory bandwidth.
3. The M1 series of chips is being currently built on one of the best nodes available, TSMC N5. No similar class processors are currently using it, and logic wise, it is very dense and very efficient, allowing you to make great designs.
4. ZoneofTech didn't exactly pick a small case. There are much smaller cases that perform similarly or better.
5. HW acceleration: by utilizing dedicated ASICs/media engines, when you don't need the highest efficiency possible, they can be used for maximum speed and whatnot.
6. For a decent amount of workloads, programs are just better optimized for macOS specifically, whereas some other apps on Windows aren't really(either by a lack of GPU acceleration or utilization of dedicated HW).
Overall, a decent video, but I'd have preferred a much more "optimized" build on the DIY side. Could have made it cheaper, quieter, perform better, be smaller, and quieter :)
@@neutronpcxt372 "ZoneofTech didn't exactly pick a small case." this MF went eATX, he could have gone Micro ATX, it looks ridiculous next to the studio, I kind of think those cases look ridiculous in general unless you have an insane build that calls for the space.
@@orion10x10 Yeah, it's massive.
I actually compared it to my case and it's sooo big.
Lmao. Only in apple based workloads, other way pc is crashing Apple everytime
@@neutronpcxt372 at first the comparison of x86 and arm isn't legit at all. X86 is wholly way more powerful instruction wise. To complete a task, x86 does 9 cycles per instruction. Where arm has 1 to 1 ratio. That's why lighter applications and optimized programs will be seen faster in arm. But x86 can handle way more difficult and complicated programs with an ease what arm can't run properly without efficient transcoding.
Secondly, 12900k actually has lower sustainable power draw than 175w. In gaming it somewhat draws way less sustainable power.
Thirdly, it's actually called process node. And n5 is the binning process. In electrical engineering, nodes mainly refer the interconnections or junctions between two or more elements of an electrical circuit.
Otherwise you were pretty much on point. You seem to be primarily a pc user, otherwise Apple users don't have much knowledge about these. Not even these apple based so called tech youtubers except snazzy lab and few others.
People buy macs for software/productivity. PC hardware is more customizable and does everything.
People buy Mac for simple ui Or show off Or ios/macos development
yeah not for gaming and stuff, id prefer the pc over the mac to generally do things, but we all have our choices and picks
@@tomatolinguinie990 The only exception is maybe my work laptop that could be the m1 air
because of the battery and portability
People buy Macs for certain professional tasks
@@delta606 example
i would like to know more about it then
I would be interested in replacing the 3090 with a proper VRAM GPU like an A6000 and a Xeon/Epyc. That's a more apples to apples comparison. Editing and gaming take VASTLY different priorities, and yes, the $$$ would heavily favor the Mac, but I can guarantee an Epyc/a6000 combo would outright destroy the Mac in editing, without even breaking a sweat.
Just use treadripper, no need epyc
It won't break their sweat (Epyc or Xeon or even Threadripper) but will break your wallets. 🤣
i9-12900K is already faster than the M1 Ultra…
You're right, but unfortunately, they will keep doing the wrong benchmark over and over again, for sure they will test the A6000 with another videogame and a Xeon with a quick rendering test (automatic and not editable at all) and exporting photos.
@OceanBeach 12900K doesn't get anywhere near 400W, but sure my 7950X limited to 105W is still faster than M1 Ultra.
0:11 They actually show the 3090 using 330W when it can use much more than that. It was pointed out in MKBHD"s video.
Apple's chips are actually really powerful, however most of the performance is limited by software
It’s Apple software there running, the OS is Apple. How limiting is the software?
@@mitchjames9350 the thing is, apples own suite actually shreds m, performance wise, the render times on like, final cut, are LUDICROUS on these new machines. It’s just, it’s a fundamentally new platform that has hidden a lot of its teething issues with a very effective emulator and a lot of purpose built encoders, but honestly, judging from how some apps are still changing lots performance wise with updates + the fact that as a rule, Rosetta apps run 30-40 percent slower, we still have a ways to go. That’s not to praise Apple too much, just an observation from working with some of these machines. There’s some extreme performance disparities from update to update and app to app even in like-like comparisons
Its not limited for the PC! LOL
@@mitchjames9350 have you seen linux os running apple laptop? It absolutely shreds apple OS even without optimized driver lmao.
Not a big fan of apple but i know non of these pcs match apple performance....plus size and all that stupid cooling apple doesn't need to match that performance....
Meanwhile, 8 months later the Mac Studio is the same price, but the PC with a RTX 4090 is cheaper.
Apple is Apple bro
@@designer.346 scam is a scam
The parts are cheaper as well
You can upgrade the pc parts to the latest tech, just buying the upgrades.
You could build that PC in an ITX case.
The main differences are:
- mac supports mac native software (developers & artists) which can be a deal breaker
- windows runs things like CAD software and gaming way better
Those two things are literally the main deciders IMO. For just work the m1 mac mini is great for most
I would liked to see a comparison test for more engineering tasks like development (app, OS) and ML/AI. From past experience, custom PC is typically the way to go. And what makes custom PC so attractive is you can upgrade components far easily compared to the MAC.
In this case, the memory is in the SoC, so no upgrade there at all. And the "SDD" is not a full SDD as the controller is on the SoC and you cannot buy some bigger one (maybe Apple will sell them at some point).
For compiling C++ the M1 (and M2) blows x86_64 based machines out of the water. I haven't seen ML training benchmarks yet. I doubt Tensorflow has been property optimized for M* yet so until that happens my guess is the custom PC is going to blow M* out of the water.
Custom wins here ... there is a night and day difference .. and im telling you as a ml engineer.
Engineering apps are a joke on macs.
it's crazy the performance to power ratio, that alone deserves a dedicated video
For portability you should really consider ITX builds you can carry it anywhere you want with extreme amounts of performance
The bonus of a pc is that you can upgrade it anytime, and with a proper MB you can literally get multiple gpus and cpus installed, so if you're wanting to run 4 shadow of the tomb raiders on max graphics on like 4 monitors you can do that
I was looking on Amazon, and it looks like you can now get the 3090 for around $1200 now. Pretty crazy how the pricing has changed.
Sincerely I thought the M1 ultra would just blow away the pc when it comes to performance. PC is still king considering its versatility
The Mac studio wins in terms of performance per watts
Even when the Mac Studio receives optimisation in some apps later in 2022, one can sell the RTX3090 for a decent price and upgrade to the 4080/90. Probably save a few thousand too and can enjoy a wider range of apps and games. The Studio is a beautiful and efficient tool for a niche group of creative professionals. That’s about it!
"The Studio is a beautiful and efficient tool for a niche group of creative professionals" well said, it's rad asf but not something most people can properly utilize
Traditionally, Macs have held good resale value for a long time.
RTX 3090 and decent price don't really go together
MacBooks and the Apple Studio can be used for more than just creating videos. Apple computers are also used by engineers.
“The PC is more expensive.” Suuuuure…. My local micro center is selling that 3090 GPU almost $1000 less than the price you list…
Micro centers exist in France???
did you notice the gpu in his case is the old model that's like 2000's not even the 3000's card design in the video?
When will the video of the M1 Max against the M1 Ultra come? Thank you very much
I would go for the 3080 with a cheaper motherboard. However, it is incredible that the M1 chip is built on ARM, earlier mostly used in smartphones! The small mobile processor technology has evolved so fast since the first smartphones and I am pretty sure ARM will surpass the x64 processors pretty soon which will lead to much smaller and less power-hungry devices
You re wrong. Arm needs more transistors to match x86
If you're looking for portable PCs you should delve into the exotic realm of the sub-10L pc builders. They got these portable PCs down with very little performance compromise.
A video of this quality and effort only getting 20k views is disappointing. RUclips algorithm gotta step it’s game up
Great video, I appreciate all that you put out. I want to make two points. First: Lack of components and prices are easing up. GPU prices are nearly at MSRP. Secondly the Mac Studio cannot natively run windows, as you put it (unless find an ARM copy of windows) - you need to run it in a VM. This is true for the PC, it can run macOS, while questionably legal, its technically possible.
Only certain motherboards and not Nvidia cards so I don't think your point is valid.
Not legally but YES
You clear my doubt thank you so much
Excellent job Daniel… Thank you for all explanation! Great
Glad it was helpful!
DDR5, Case and CPU cooler are there to artificially increase the price of the pc! Not to mention the PSU which can also be a cheaper yet equivalent performance one so yes you can get a better than mac studio performance wise pc with a much lower price than 5000 USD
It’s around 1k less for a 3090 now as well
@@kieran9882 You are right but the video was made when the GPU market inflation was beyond the sky but even then it was still more logical to invest on a PC beast than a 0 futureproof apple box
Use i9 12900KS (special edition), it is the best
That wouldn’t have made any significant difference
Waste of money
Its just 4 % better than stock 12900k so just waste
I would stick to a PC, after seeing those results it looks like the PC build was underclocked and slowed down. I also don't see how its so loud unless you put the fan speed way past whats needed
Trying putting the M1 Ultra in their cheese-grater case with sufficient cooling which might enable a higher clock speed. This might allow them to draw more power and ultimately more performance due to greatly enhanced heat dissipation. Results will be a lot different.
yes for a product that doesn't exist and you can't build.
You didn't need a giant monster PC enclosure like this one
Seriously it easily could have been half or a third of the size.
Just a reminder, This is not the highest end apple silicon, it's just the one available at the moment. both are impressive, kudos to Mac studio for pushing that high being that small
What is the highest end one? He got the 20 core one.
@@benjaminmartin3212 My guess is they were referring to the upcoming Mac Pro
Yeh the mac from year2089 is faster.
im gonna be honest. the mac studio is a product i genuinely respect from apple. its priced fair for the performance it puts out. ofcourse macs arent for gaming, but there's so many other factors to consider. The size of the destop is huge, the noise, i know some people like bright lights and rgb but I personally like the matte toned down finish of the studio. Would personally go for a mac but obviously windows offers a much bigger advantage due to some programs only on windows and who doesn't like a bit of gaming on the side.
Honest? Haha silent pc are common stuff now
5:51
You can make a PC passively cooled if you want, cutting sound levels to near zero.
There's also plenty of computer parts that provides active cooling with far less noise then this.
As for pricing, get AMD parts, their availability is higher so their prices aren't as inflated.
you can't passsively cool a 3090 dude
@@geckygeck8999 you sure?
you think you can passively cool a 3090? lmaoo
@@geckygeck8999 Of course not a 3090, not in air anyway, but seriously, you don't *need* a 3090 for video editing and studio work.
And if you are willing to buy a third party passive cooler you don't *have* to go *that* much down the stack to get something that'll work passively.
You can passively cool a 200 W GPU with air.
300+
There's a limit to what you can do with convection of air.
At a certain point you have to submerge your system in order to get passive cooling that's sufficient for your parts.
Or you get a case that does have airflow and doesn't choke its components like crazy...
what about the repairability ?
You picked looks over performance and it still crushed it😂
Silence is worth a lot to me. Make each equally quite and see which performs better.
Why this channel has only 1.26 million subscribers is beyond me...... Daniel and the team deserve way more than this. Excellent content with informative comments, neat and to-the-point presentations, as well as the channel's honest and objective review of almost all Apple products, simply make this channel the number one place to get first hand information on the Apple eco-system. Keep up the momentum, Daniel!
Wow, thank you!
1.26 million is a lot of people lol
Yes, Daniel and the team work very hard to produce Excellent Results. Thank you from me too 👌👌🙌🙌
Because he’s obsessed with Apple even through they hate him he’s to much
1.26 million. “Only”, jesus
Any thoughts of using threadripper 3990x
I wonder how the Apple pre made machine would stand up against a Dell pre made machine, or an HP, or another named PC that came pre made.
The ability to cherry pick your pieces should mean you can get the best performance from the kit.
Don't forget that cherry picking your components will inflate your costs too.
it's not like it was full cherry picking either, he was provided stuff by asus, and if you made that pc today it would be much cheaper.
if you are spending that kind of money, you should be able to cherry pick. Atleast with a custom built PC you can change whatever you want after the fact.
Once a mac fails you have to probably replace the whole thing. For PC all you do is replace a component easily. Macs are still amazing and efficient machines. Its a shame PCs cant be as efficient. Its an easy choice, PC. Most of the components can be reused over a long period of time.
We all knew that Apple was dicking around with their comparison as they usually do by not being specific at all and that the 3090 was going to be faster. However, I am impressed just how close it got to the PC, considering price, size, power draw and noise. I am very impressed.
Their Apple silicon is truly revolutionary. They just really shouldn't be saying things that aren't true. How did they measure it "being faster than the fastest discrete gpu"? it's clearly not true, and people will notice, and they will focus on it. The M1 CPU got 85 % of the 12900K's multithreaded score using 23 % of the wattage, and that's absolutely something to be applauded.
Do you know if there was any throttling on the pc due to insufficient cooling? I know that can easily be a problem with such a powerful build.
could have been - it was hitting some scary high temperatures, while the more efficient mac was way cooler.
Surely for a lot of us it’s the os. I have a pc running w11 as well as a venerable Mac Pro 5,1. I can’t wait to get an m1 max to save load up times. Has anyone said how long the Mac studio takes from button to ready? Oh, and did you forget to include longevity in your comparison?
very Helpful video Thank you For Making This Video Big Thumbs up 👍
So a 300 hundred dollar case, a 400 dollar cpu cooler, a 200 dollar ssd, the 3090 sells for 1500 now, you meant a 3000 dollar pc at most if you don't use overpriced components that change nothing to performance.
Everybody Gangsta until apple make a gaming PC
This review is flawed by the prices sadly , those pc components don’t actually costs that much
Edit : also if you buy exclusive asus rog componentes of course the price is going to be through the roof
The real question is: do you really want a giant electric heater in your home or office in the summer time?
It'll be useful in winter
@@Zachariahtoms Yeah but unless you live in the far north, you don't need an electric heater
U can actually buy cooling... Its not something much noticeable if cooled right.
@@froznfire9531 Yeah but it's an extra expense, both to buy the cooling unit, and to run it
@@TheStopwatchGod You can build this system with way better cooling for less than the Mini Ultra. He just has a partnership with Asus which most of the time are very expensive parts. With reasonably priced ones, its easy. U can have a 9 fan case with A 420 AIO around 120$ and 6 more fans for around 30 bucks and make this system very quiet.
Fans pretty much use no power, especially since they wont run at over 50% because its not needed.
I would say with lowering power limits and undervolting, you can get the PC at little above the power consumption as the Mac with much more performance.
Apple did a great job competing with NVIDEA, Intel and AMD performance wise when running lower wattages. TBH tho, I'm not quite sure if that matters.
it’ll matter when you’re doing tons of rendering like I do and you get your electric bill.
@@xlcrgames3740 Exactly revievers miss this point so badly
Hey there. Thank you so much for the comparison. I finally end up buying pc with Threadripper and dual RTX 3080s for blender and game development. And it also can game smoothly. Again Thanks a lot. Keep making videos like these.
In what applications besides Blender Cycles do you benefit from dual GPU for game development?
@@johnfr2389 general GPU compute as well as machine learning. I haven't seen any games that really leverage machine learning on the client beyond DLSS but it is an option that could be used if he wants, and even if not he still has the ability to tinker with it as a hobby.
@@johnfr2389 dual gpus for faster rendering, for studios and blender artist its kinda in need for them to get a higher gpu memory such as the 3090 in their system. Ive seen other blender artists made a 10 second video of a magical pot pouring a magic water animation and it made them "ONE MINUTE AND 45 SECONDS PER FRAME TO LOAD THE WHOLE 10 SECOND VIDEO ANIMATION" idk what their gpu used. acquiring 2 gpu in your mobo needs the SLI bridge but for most games doesnt support sli bridge which is too bad and result shows its like only 1 gpu is working for the non sli supported games
@@rcortez5979 sli games already dead
Now multi gpu mostly used for more compute unit and vram
Or more like all sli dead 😂
The temps depend upon what type of cooler you use. So you have to choose the right one for the better comparison
Exactly. LoL when I was a desktop PC noob I didn't know that. Back when I used to be a Mac user
Benchmarks are interesting, because you can optimize for them as a developer. I just watched a video where this guy shows how his PC is built up with better specs than his M1 Pro 14" MacBook Pro and the PC can export a Premiere timeline faster, but in actual editing, the M1 Pro MBP could scrub the timeline smoothly without a hiccup. The PC was struggling to render the timeline as he scrubbed. Even though the PC was technically faster when you compare stats, actual usability was better on the Mac.
I enjoy your content and this was no different. I think a fairer test would have been equal cost and equal size as you can manage. Though best to wait until optimisations are done.
Wow it's crazy how far that silicon has come and I can't wait for the future when we can play 4k next gen games on mobile
PC for sure. there are some places you can save money and still outperform that MAC for less money. Hardware aside, I'm also not exclusively shackled to the Apple ecosystem.
Interesting to see that historic video. And today?
If you count the Windows on Arm beta for the Mac (which is neither supported by Apple nor Microsoft), then you should also count an unofficial install of Mac Os on a PC. As a developer, guess what, i just need all three operating systems. And at the moment the x86/x64 version of Windows is way more important to me. That might change some day, but it also might not. The days were i loved my Mac for running Windows, Linux and Mac Os natively, are almost over when my Intel 2020 Mac is dead or no longer supported…
I agree with you, and I think we have been effectively forced to have both a Mac and a PC if you are developing for both platforms.
Though the closest to a single machine solution would be buying an M based Mac, as Parallels seems to be doing a good job with its virtual environment for running i86 Windows on Apple silicon.
(As long as Apple supports i86, you could do it the other way round, sort of anyway, using VMWare to run MacOS on windows, but the lack of any sort of graphics acceleration support makes MacOS VMs almost unusably slow.
And while running a Hackintosh is an option while Apple supports i86, doing that is so often so complex and flakey, it's would not the way to go for professional work, from my perspective anyway.
With computers losing so much of their value as they age, it's a no brainer to simply buy an older machine of the variety that you don't prefer to have as a primary machine.)
Is the Mac Studio a good purchase fo CG Compositing and 3D rendering?
Windows on 3D is the norm
You can still outperform the mac studio in most things “creatives” will be doing with a 3060 and an 8 core amd processor for like 2000$. Not to mention the freedom of being able to do whatever you want with it.
An expensive can compete to that, is Mac studio expandable??? No
@@gn1l262 defeat M1 by far . Yes
@@Teluric2 3090 exisf
Lets keep in mind that the mac studio sips power from the wall. Its kinda impressive
Who cares? People running heavy workloads dont care about the powerbill .
@@Teluric2 That is nonsons. Many are self employed and do care about the powerbill. I do. And i know others too that are playing with power saving / performance.
I guess that PC should be benchmarked against the Mac Pro when it comes out, and the Mac Studio should be benchmarked against something like the HP Z2 Mini or the Lenovo ThinkStation P350 Tiny.
I think mac studio should be compared to new hx laptops
Great video Daniel !!!!
with Intel chip Yes but with M1 chip u can't run nothing but MacOS unless you're using Parallel which kinda limited when it comes to some linux versions such as Ubuntu
Actually there is a version of linux working on M1 macs that runs natively. You can dual boot between the two
@@crestofhonor2349 and it sucks.
@@TheRealGigaCat Yeah because it's new and it lacks a ton of features like access to proper GPU drivers. Needs a ton of work before it can be recommended to anyone but people who seriously want it or are further helping development
@@crestofhonor2349 You can say that for anything.
What about the M2 Ultra or the upcoming M4 Ulltra?
I would honestly never think about getting any mac or apple pc, for me it just makes no sense for me. not to even mention, if I wish to upgrade a lot I simply can. Change video card? You can without an issue, Get Ryzen en most you can simply switch as well and so on. Without needing a completely new system
Why did you have to change anything at all?🤷🏽♂️
@@philamavikane9423 for in the future.... like in 2 years I want a better cpu, then guess what... I can... simply swap it. that is why... because I need power for what I do with 3d animations.... so the question, is why would I not?
It’s basically like this: those that enjoy working on cars and those that don’t; personally I am not an apple fan given their stance against right to repair and all their bs tactics they use to discourage people to upgrade n customize. Worse are the ponytail wearing condescending BEztA males they employ whom get off on lecturing you on how battery changes are “dangerous,” all while ignoring perfectly legitimate counter arguments such as: I’m fine changing my car battery without a Chernobyl style meltdown occuring.
Macs are fine for school and some business use situations but not for people that want full control, and actually enjoy building
This was a far better and unbiased comparison video, unlike Max Techs video.
Max's audience is also far more Apple biased than this one. I've had far more run ins with apple fan boys there. Here you at least get a good mix of both apple and windows people who are reasonable
the pc is the better choice since it has expantability and better performance unless you are taking your computer to the cafe that is what you should always go for
get a windows laptop if you are going to a cafe
@@akiramiller9025 i mean yeah you are right but still macs are a steal and you should never buy one and waste your money
The only question I have. Is the mac studio any good in games?
Good review, thanks! Windows at work in the Office, MacOS after that. It's all about the Magic track pad and being able to move to different pages. Haaa! If I gamed I'd probably have a reason to go back to Windows. When we went from Win7 to 10, I lost my mind and bailed. Might do the Studio Max but my 2018 Mac mini i7 is about all I need for now.
I LOVED your comparison and it answered a serious question for me. Thanks so much
I have 3090 pc and have always used pcs but bought a studio and very happy with. The lack of heat and noise is so much nicer and photoshop/ resolve open faster and seem to run a bit better. The PC hasn’t been turned on in over a week now
u rich
@@oscar_bio he rich
Fits 12 times into the pc case?
Intel is coming back. Raptor Lake is launching later this year, and then Meteor Lake next year. I'm excited to see how M2 stacks up against Raptor Lake/Meteor Lake and Zen4. x86 ain't dead yet. Intel also has some wild designs coming with Lunar Lake, Nova Lake and beyond. Competition is great for us consumers...
These names though 👌💯
All those lakes
@@noahplants LOL Intel and its Lakes
@@j340_official For a while they were about bridges
@@crestofhonor2349 true perhaps they ran out of room with the suspension bridges and decided to take the plunge and submerge into lakes. 🤣
The mac Pro is directed towards studio use so portability shouldn't be in mind if you want portability get a laptop
They have their own ups and downs but building your own PC will provide better results than a prebuilt
The mac for its size is pretty incredible but for studio use where it'll just sit in place the size doesn't really matter (to a certain point ofc)
m1 ultra is very impressive chip, not falling really far away from pc while keeping itself cool, silent and at lower power consumption
but there is more on market than intel, i would love to see m1 ultra comparison to a 5950X which has lower temps and power consumption and higher multicore score compared to 12900k, not to mention ryzen 7000 is about to release this year, but we're here and now, so let's ignore that
also while 3090 does make a difference, i don't think it is a $2500 difference, not to mention that this mac can actually game, like for real
i'm far from being a apple fanboy, much further to the other side actually, but mac studio is very impressive for what it is, and especially for how much it is
The the 12900k beats the 5950
You re an apple fanboy but you are .in denial
Monitor in the beginning of your video is it 27" or 32"?
Great video thanks. I disagree with the design score. I will likely never buy an Apple product but can appreciate how appealing they look.
what? you prefer that boring grey box?
Shaking my head
@@drabberfrog hahahhahahahah so you need a funny box to get your job done? Ok if you re a teen
" hey boss we couldnt finish the jobs because my pc looks boring"
Don't have money to buy any of these but, danm! That was a honest review. Very balanced and well put together. Even though Asus provided the componets u still called a spade a spade. U jst got a sub👍🏽
Did you buy the biggest possible PC case to make it look bigger next to the Mac studio? eATX is insanely huge, regular ATX would have been much more representative of a normal PC people would get, you could also go micro ATX and make it MUCH more comparable to the Studio if you care about portability
The MAC Studio is created to work with Adone Suite, with other software is much slower than the Pc
The comparison of two pieces of hardware where one is 1/18th the size of the other, is insane in itself.
RTX 3090 Ti:test me
It’s obviously no surprise that the ASUS PC did better than the Mac Studio in gaming and raw. But I still prefer the Mac Studio just because of the premium look, portability and access to MacOS.
Nice To Meet You !!!
Wtf
Pointless in many parts. You could easily build the PC smaller, cooler, cheaper, silent, so you cant rate it. Expandability in my opinion is total on the (ram, ssd, graphic).
The real Point for the Apple is: Power consumption ( we really must give them high credits here) and Marketing.
Great video, I’m surprised that the mac studio lost against the pc but it’s cheaper so it’s normal, but good to know, thanks for this video
You forgot to add the cost of the addition you would need to build on your house to store the PC as a way to handle the heat and noise it generates. Considering the climate crisis our planet finds itself in, I think the ratio of performance/energy consumption needs a higher place in your comparison.
correct. Environmental friendly. Apple use 1/5 wattage and use one single SoC and rivals PC big tower. It is magical indeed.
🙄 yeah no
You don't need to build your house around the PC. You not only can change out the case you can also make it significantly quieter too. Plus not everyone gets their power from fossil fuels. Yes power consumption is important but it's not the biggest deal in a desktop. Plus over the past 10 years there have been significant changes in our power grid to not only be far more efficient but also significantly cleaner, things are only improving from here on out
Custom PC is like building a racing car with lots of HP and TQ. you change all your parts etc…Max is like a Ferrari just comes built!! PC has way more options etc…
Max doesnt have the quality of a ferrari stop dreaming. Ferrari is made of the best components money can buy while max is not by far. My wife has 2 macbooks and I can say its not top quality the lid is too soft people think that because mac looks expensive they re made og high quality materials but not. I hate the keyboard is too shallow when I press the key
Why apple works so hard in making a pretty mac? Because most mac users like looks and being cool I know because I m married to a uberfan girl
Looks goes to the PC. Lol. Stopped at that point. 😂
🤣🤣.. and I used to binge watch this channel.😬
Not gonna lie, I lol’d when you showed the first power draw graph.
The $6000 PC outperformed the $5000 mac.... How was that unexpected for you?
It's explained in earlier I guess
It only costs that much because of inflated prices, The parts cost way less at MSRP he is just paying more but in actual sense the parts are way less under normal circumstances. Because for the GPU alone he paid $1000 above what he is supposed to under normal circumstances.
Considering Apple’s marketing hinted at this, yeah, it may be unexpected to some
20% cheaper mac that runs 30% slower
when you can pick cheaper parts, smaller case, better processors and quiter fans/stealthier build but went with what u did i knew right away u don't have any hidden agenda so bravoooo..
The work you put into this video shows; the video is amazing!
Can we do Boot Camp on the Studio yet?
No
Nah, they don’t wanna reveal the truth
Apple is limiting the mac studio in a laptop its understandable but in this case i don't understand
Why not use a Threadripper CPU?
If the prices weren't that inflated, the PC would cost around 3000. Also, the 3090 is almost 2 years old GPU.
Wats the point of having the best chips with a very limited software ???
You can absolutely make a MiniITX around the size of a Mac, with great cooling just going to a micro center, and stil outperform it.
I really enjoyed the video. Btw thx now i know which computer i should buy. ☺️❤️