Thanks Dimitri. I think the rate of evolution of Chinese cars has been phenomenal. I do tend to agree with you from a quality perspective on your rating of the different Chinese brands at present in the Australian market. However, I think that in 5 years time, the quality aspects will improve dramatically and there will be even more Chinese competitors for us to chose from. The Japanese and Koreans will have to really give us more or reduce their prices to continue to be at the top of the sale charts.
I think they will definitely catch up on quality, but if you've noticed - many of them (e.g. GWM) are also slowly raising their prices, reducing the gap with the "leaders". This is dangerous game they are playing, as while the quality becomes more comparable, the perception of Australian buyer will take a lot longer (10-15 years?) to evolve and reduce the negative effects of ruthless value dumping and depreciation. They need to maintain the price gap while improving quality. Which is a very very hard goal to achieve.
Dmitri, resale value is important. Very important. If a car loses $5,000 AUD per year, this is $100 per week. $10,000 is $200 per week, etc. In terms of "RUNNING COSTS", depreciation is potentially the largest component by quite a margin. Fuel consumption is a small component. Given the novelty of Chinese brands in Australia (and GWM are the only ones with some historical precedent here), some simple analysis of time/cost would be an immense help to potential buyers. Length of warranty (and conditions imposed), servicing costs and intervals, cost/availability of spare parts all factor into running costs. Ease of repair is another issue, both for panel repairs as well as mechanical. BMW owners know all about this aspect! It would be an interesting exercise to build a TCOO database from scratch, particularly where the Chinese vehicles are relatively new here. Anyway, love your work! Здоровья!
Makes sense mate, all makes sense. A side note, aka "parallel logical track" to what you're talking about however is the "price of admission". That is - availability of the vehicle for near-instant acquisition and a (much) lower upfront cost. YES, it all comes down in the wash - perhaps - later, when the owner tries to re-sell the car, where the losses of money even out, one way or another, but let's not conveniently deny the fact that Chinese cars are becoming more and more - a). affordable, compared to their more established rivals, b). higher quality overall, compared to what the Aussie-Aussie-Oi-Oi Toyota drivers used to bash them for 20 years ago. I've acknowledged upfront that no one is arguing that depreciation on Chinese vehicles is a b1tch compared to your Hilux. But the number of people who can buy a very decent Chinese vehicle for half the price of Hilux and then - say - NOT plan to resell it but drive it into the ground instead is still MASSIVE.
Very valid point I had a ssangyong years ago and all the same things were said about Korean cars but it was a great car and I was sad to see go when I finally traded it in with 300000km on the odometer 👍🏻
@@kevinbunter977 Once the car market returns to normality where used vehicles reflect actual value and people retain cars longer, the Chinese vehicle cohort will show their long term value as long as they do hold together. Whilst ssanyongs were incredibly ugly, they were equally incredibly well built. Only time will tell if Chinese cars are the opposite. So far the Chinese cars are mostly lasting pretty well but I don't expect they will last like the old bulletproof Ssangyong.
Good points, as I am a strong believer of driving already depreciated (i.e. used) cars into the ground. The BIG QUESTION is whether the Chinese vehicles are sufficiently advanced to last long enough to drive them into the ground! @@ValueCarsAU
Today I went back and rewatched your review of your (now sold ) ldv d90 suv , came to my mind if u could re test drive another newer ldv d90 see if they improve the car , as I’m tempted in buying one next year
Good idea mate, I didn't think of that... Might go revisit them at some point soon. Would like to take a look at the dreaded T60 actually, to see if it's worth all the bashing lol...
At the end of the day, it's a personal choice. You buy what you want. I watch lots of reviews and your point about models to choose from is valid. And Haval, GWM, doesn't rank high in Malaysia and Philippines whereas Chery, with the Tiggo range does. So presence in the market is very important. Interesting video.
Interesting insights, always love hearing how the brands are doing overseas. Yes, everything is a personal choice. I reflect on what's happening across Australia, obviously subjectively, as much as I'm trying to be objective.
Thanks for sharing, my friend. Interesting that you put Chery way ahead of MG/LDV - any particular reason for that? And also looks like you are quite lucky there with big choice of Chinese brands... We only have the 4 I talked about, as the mainstream anyway.
Thirty seconds into this video I did a quick mental assessment of my own. I ranked them the same but in my mind BYD would be a separate brand at the top of the list. Thanks for the interesting video.
I think judging by BRAND alone would be difficult. You can see that with MG. To me the MG petrol range is a no go - I think even the MG5 does not look attactive to most consumer tastes. But the MG4 is a standout. With GWM its the opposite, The petrol diesel range is very good but the Ora does not seem to be a good match to the MG4. LDV looks good if you need a manual ute or a van, that's it. The Omoda looks like a tennis shoe... buy a H6 instead if you want to drive something normal... and competant-ish.
Fair points and of course the real decision to buy something or not should always be more multi faceted, no one should buy on the brand alone, I agree. But. The brands and vehicles I've listed specifically have a reason of being put in that priority picking order, as I've explained. This is one of the inputs someone should take in as part of their decision making, in my opinion. Eg Cherry in 2023? No, thanks. General robustness of GWM over any other brand in this line up? Yep.
Very nice information. Currently I have Kia Sportage 2.0L. Here in Pakistan Haval h6 2.0L turbo available but more than price of Sportage. Should I go to the Haval h6. ? What you suggest. I never got chines car before that.
Hello mate, I can't believe KIA Sportage costs LESS where you are than Haval H6, it blows my mind! 🤯 I think GWM and Haval specifically are rather solid for a Chinese vehicle (compared to many others), but I'd still (personally!) trust KIA more, if we're comparing apples to apples and both cars are new and have similar warranty.
Haven't ended up test driving one mate, and heard not the greatest ANCAP rating reviews recently... I believe that everything has the right price. So, if it was CHEAP, I'd say why not, see this and that, maybe it's okay... But XUV700 is definitely not cheap and there are other more solid brands to pick from. It's as simple as that.
Hi Dmitri you are mistaken with some of the brands assuming them to be Chinese when they are not. Mahindra is an Indian company , ssangyong is Korean bought and owned by mahindra now, copra and polestar belong to the Volkswagen group.
Lol I'm not mistaken. I've just listed them in a bunch of the other "cheaper" and budget-friendly brands. Not all of them are Chinese, no. Polestar belongs to Volvo. Volvo is Chinese. Cupra - not sure, you might be right, and it doesn't matter.
@@ValueCarsAU the title of the video being 'which Chinese cars to buy' those Indian Korean European names stood out oddly. That's why I assumed you are wrong. I'm mistaken!
That LDV T60 was not parked in the sand or salt water, it was parked in the car park next to the beach where the owner is a lifeguard, brought from a dealership also close to the sea. He also had paid extra for extra rust protection, luckily in court they proved the T60 was a rust bucket!
Yes I've listened to the report replayed by John Cadogan, sounded like a nasty situation. I've not seen enough from LDV to prove or disprove this. Myself I haven't had any serious issues with D90, but then I had it for 5 minutes...
Mate, with all due respect, you were keep saying "I think ... it is better, it is not so...". Could you please clarify - based on what factors you made your opinion? Did you use those cars just as an average "user" who never opens up the bonnet? Or maybe you did take them to a mechanic to do some checks so you could have some ground for your opinions? It would be a super super useful for all of us, like if you have been driving a particular car for one, two, three years and this is what was discovered when you took the car to a mechanic for an inspection. Maybe even take some pics or record videos - is there any rust? Is there any leakage? Anything suspicious? Would be super nice to have some facts and evidences rather that just your personal opinion. Все равно - спасибо за видосы :)
I got a SsangYong Rexton Ultimate, it's ok but you get what you pay for, also dealers are a nightmare, head unit and electrics are rubbish, had some quirks as well but been reliable. Would NOT buy again. Regret not getting the H9
We are the same my wife has one it’s been ok but has the worst cruise control I have ever used can’t hold speed on flat road wish we had of stuck with a Pajero we originally ordered.
Do you trust Chery? This is the second time Chery is released in Australia, this brand used to be sold but failed and pulled out of Australia. Second time lucky or second time unlucky?
I would not buy Omoda 5 as I think the quality is just not there. But then, I watch SA videos and they rate Tiggo 8 Pro higher than Haval H6, and those guys know what they are talking about. So never say never I guess.
@@ValueCarsAUSpeaking of Chery SA, if you read HelloPeter about Chery, there are a few complaints about chery tiggo pro 7 leaking when it rains. The rest is about the tiggo pro 4 and very bad After sales; granted, even Toyota got like 2 stars only. .
In theory, sure, sounds nice. But unfortunately not everyone has the upfront amount of money that would get them the premium product that Chinese certainly don't produce in their affordable price range.
@@ValueCarsAU In some cases you do not have to pay more to get an established brand such as Mitsubishi and Suzuki. These cars have far superior build quality to any Chinese car. Chinese cars may offer “better value” in the way that they have more tech and trinkets for the price but at the end of the day you’re better off with a better quality more reliable vehicle.
Given these companies enough time to evolve and mature will produce sturdier and better cars in the future much like Kia and Hyundai back in the 90s look at them now
@@DrBenz88 actually, i was considering suzuki, when i saw the horrible safety rating of the baleno. it is so thin. not worth my life, or at the very least, a dent if someone comes near it.
Good on you for having a good go at this Dmitry but your failure to properly evaluate the BYD offerings left a gaping hole in your commentary/opinion piece 🤔
Fair point mate, I will take a closer look at BYD when a convenient opportunity presents itself, however I still believe that they have a TINY footprint in Australia - as said in the video - which is why I (personally) would not consider them.
Thanks for replying Dmitry, in May, the BYD Atto 3 was the third highest selling EV in Australia. Their market share has improved substantially since then…..
My mechanic tells me that some Chinese/Indian vehicles can be very difficult to get spare parts for, even basic items. Does anyone have any information or experience with this (either good or bad stories)?
I'd be also interested to hear from people with facts mate, but just be aware that there are plenty of "brand bashers" lurking about, so they'll tell you horror stories that the brands don't deserve. I've never had an issue with my MG or other vehicles, but that being said - nothing really bad happened to them, and I always went to the brand service centre, so they always had everything I needed.
Thanks Dimitri. I think the rate of evolution of Chinese cars has been phenomenal. I do tend to agree with you from a quality perspective on your rating of the different Chinese brands at present in the Australian market. However, I think that in 5 years time, the quality aspects will improve dramatically and there will be even more Chinese competitors for us to chose from. The Japanese and Koreans will have to really give us more or reduce their prices to continue to be at the top of the sale charts.
I think they will definitely catch up on quality, but if you've noticed - many of them (e.g. GWM) are also slowly raising their prices, reducing the gap with the "leaders". This is dangerous game they are playing, as while the quality becomes more comparable, the perception of Australian buyer will take a lot longer (10-15 years?) to evolve and reduce the negative effects of ruthless value dumping and depreciation. They need to maintain the price gap while improving quality. Which is a very very hard goal to achieve.
No problems with our mg3 (3 years old now), LDV T60 2 years old (MG Extender) and Jolion Ultima 3 years old. Driven Tank 300 and very impressed.
Tank 300 is still very front and centre on my radar for the next car upgrade, I just need to sell my H6 Lux first...
Mechanic here. All are absolute shitboxes and are discraceful.
Dmitri, resale value is important. Very important.
If a car loses $5,000 AUD per year, this is $100 per week. $10,000 is $200 per week, etc. In terms of "RUNNING COSTS", depreciation is potentially the largest component by quite a margin. Fuel consumption is a small component.
Given the novelty of Chinese brands in Australia (and GWM are the only ones with some historical precedent here), some simple analysis of time/cost would be an immense help to potential buyers. Length of warranty (and conditions imposed), servicing costs and intervals, cost/availability of spare parts all factor into running costs.
Ease of repair is another issue, both for panel repairs as well as mechanical. BMW owners know all about this aspect!
It would be an interesting exercise to build a TCOO database from scratch, particularly where the Chinese vehicles are relatively new here.
Anyway, love your work! Здоровья!
Makes sense mate, all makes sense. A side note, aka "parallel logical track" to what you're talking about however is the "price of admission". That is - availability of the vehicle for near-instant acquisition and a (much) lower upfront cost. YES, it all comes down in the wash - perhaps - later, when the owner tries to re-sell the car, where the losses of money even out, one way or another, but let's not conveniently deny the fact that Chinese cars are becoming more and more - a). affordable, compared to their more established rivals, b). higher quality overall, compared to what the Aussie-Aussie-Oi-Oi Toyota drivers used to bash them for 20 years ago. I've acknowledged upfront that no one is arguing that depreciation on Chinese vehicles is a b1tch compared to your Hilux. But the number of people who can buy a very decent Chinese vehicle for half the price of Hilux and then - say - NOT plan to resell it but drive it into the ground instead is still MASSIVE.
Very valid point I had a ssangyong years ago and all the same things were said about Korean cars but it was a great car and I was sad to see go when I finally traded it in with 300000km on the odometer 👍🏻
@@kevinbunter977 Once the car market returns to normality where used vehicles reflect actual value and people retain cars longer, the Chinese vehicle cohort will show their long term value as long as they do hold together.
Whilst ssanyongs were incredibly ugly, they were equally incredibly well built. Only time will tell if Chinese cars are the opposite. So far the Chinese cars are mostly lasting pretty well but I don't expect they will last like the old bulletproof Ssangyong.
Good points, as I am a strong believer of driving already depreciated (i.e. used) cars into the ground. The BIG QUESTION is whether the Chinese vehicles are sufficiently advanced to last long enough to drive them into the ground! @@ValueCarsAU
Yes very good discussion, I think you are right on the mark, but the gaps are definitely closing, well presented
Glad to hear you enjoyed it
Today I went back and rewatched your review of your (now sold ) ldv d90 suv , came to my mind if u could re test drive another newer ldv d90 see if they improve the car , as I’m tempted in buying one next year
Good idea mate, I didn't think of that... Might go revisit them at some point soon. Would like to take a look at the dreaded T60 actually, to see if it's worth all the bashing lol...
Subscribed. Thanks for your unbiased report.
Glad to hear you enjoyed it
At the end of the day, it's a personal choice. You buy what you want. I watch lots of reviews and your point about models to choose from is valid. And Haval, GWM, doesn't rank high in Malaysia and Philippines whereas Chery, with the Tiggo range does. So presence in the market is very important. Interesting video.
Interesting insights, always love hearing how the brands are doing overseas. Yes, everything is a personal choice. I reflect on what's happening across Australia, obviously subjectively, as much as I'm trying to be objective.
thanks for the feedback, what are people saying about their experiences with chery tiggo 4 pro ? do you know? appreciate any insight. thank you
Very honest opinion Dimitri. No need to be apologetic about your opinion. You are great. Keep posting honest reviews.
Thanks, always trying to be.
Best to the worst in my opinion in saudia arabia
1-geely
2-all gwm
3-all chery
4-changan
5-saic (mg-maxsus-ldv)
6-all faw
7-dongfeng
Thanks for sharing, my friend. Interesting that you put Chery way ahead of MG/LDV - any particular reason for that? And also looks like you are quite lucky there with big choice of Chinese brands... We only have the 4 I talked about, as the mainstream anyway.
- Hongqi or Red Flag (owned by FAW)
- Avtr 11 (deveIoped by Huawei, CATL (largest battery manufacturer in the world) and Changan automobile)
在中国国内，中国汽车品牌质量排名，奇瑞质量最好，排名第一。
Thirty seconds into this video I did a quick mental assessment of my own. I ranked them the same but in my mind BYD would be a separate brand at the top of the list. Thanks for the interesting video.
We've gotten a few new contenders in Australia in 2024 so I'd call this list out of date by now, to be honest.
I think judging by BRAND alone would be difficult. You can see that with MG. To me the MG petrol range is a no go - I think even the MG5 does not look attactive to most consumer tastes. But the MG4 is a standout. With GWM its the opposite, The petrol diesel range is very good but the Ora does not seem to be a good match to the MG4. LDV looks good if you need a manual ute or a van, that's it. The Omoda looks like a tennis shoe... buy a H6 instead if you want to drive something normal... and competant-ish.
Fair points and of course the real decision to buy something or not should always be more multi faceted, no one should buy on the brand alone, I agree. But. The brands and vehicles I've listed specifically have a reason of being put in that priority picking order, as I've explained. This is one of the inputs someone should take in as part of their decision making, in my opinion. Eg Cherry in 2023? No, thanks. General robustness of GWM over any other brand in this line up? Yep.
Good review mate. I would be interested to see you review the Ssangyong Rexton Ultimate.
Glad to hear you enjoyed it. No priority on Ssangyong for me, but never say never, wish their dealership was closer to where I am.
Very nice information. Currently I have Kia Sportage 2.0L. Here in Pakistan Haval h6 2.0L turbo available but more than price of Sportage. Should I go to the Haval h6. ? What you suggest. I never got chines car before that.
Hello mate, I can't believe KIA Sportage costs LESS where you are than Haval H6, it blows my mind! 🤯 I think GWM and Haval specifically are rather solid for a Chinese vehicle (compared to many others), but I'd still (personally!) trust KIA more, if we're comparing apples to apples and both cars are new and have similar warranty.
Awesome video mate, love it. What is your opinion on Mahindra XUV700 as i m considering to buy one.
Haven't ended up test driving one mate, and heard not the greatest ANCAP rating reviews recently... I believe that everything has the right price. So, if it was CHEAP, I'd say why not, see this and that, maybe it's okay... But XUV700 is definitely not cheap and there are other more solid brands to pick from. It's as simple as that.
Sweet bro I agree with your views.thanks man
Glad you do!
Good Choice, you are the guy who really know chinese car.
Thank you!
Hi Dmitri you are mistaken with some of the brands assuming them to be Chinese when they are not. Mahindra is an Indian company , ssangyong is Korean bought and owned by mahindra now, copra and polestar belong to the Volkswagen group.
Lol I'm not mistaken. I've just listed them in a bunch of the other "cheaper" and budget-friendly brands. Not all of them are Chinese, no. Polestar belongs to Volvo. Volvo is Chinese. Cupra - not sure, you might be right, and it doesn't matter.
@@ValueCarsAU the title of the video being 'which Chinese cars to buy' those Indian Korean European names stood out oddly. That's why I assumed you are wrong. I'm mistaken!
@@ValueCarsAUCupra is Spanish Volkswagen.
That LDV T60 was not parked in the sand or salt water, it was parked in the car park next to the beach where the owner is a lifeguard, brought from a dealership also close to the sea. He also had paid extra for extra rust protection, luckily in court they proved the T60 was a rust bucket!
Yes I've listened to the report replayed by John Cadogan, sounded like a nasty situation. I've not seen enough from LDV to prove or disprove this. Myself I haven't had any serious issues with D90, but then I had it for 5 minutes...
Nice discussion
Glad you enjoyed it
Mate, with all due respect, you were keep saying "I think ... it is better, it is not so...". Could you please clarify - based on what factors you made your opinion?
Did you use those cars just as an average "user" who never opens up the bonnet? Or maybe you did take them to a mechanic to do some checks so you could have some ground for your opinions?
It would be a super super useful for all of us, like if you have been driving a particular car for one, two, three years and this is what was discovered when you took the car to a mechanic for an inspection. Maybe even take some pics or record videos - is there any rust? Is there any leakage? Anything suspicious? Would be super nice to have some facts and evidences rather that just your personal opinion.
Все равно - спасибо за видосы :)
All my videos are based on my own experience and subjective opinion of a private owner. Thanks for commenting.
In Russia, " I think ,equal, I believe" because I'm Russian .
I want to own and drive a car from all manufacturers, except anything Italian ( fiat, alfa etc ) because they have absolute garbage electronic units.
Lol I wouldn't want to own and drive cars from ALL manufacturers, and can imagine Italians are not the only ones producing bad electronic units 🤷♀️
I got a SsangYong Rexton Ultimate, it's ok but you get what you pay for, also dealers are a nightmare, head unit and electrics are rubbish, had some quirks as well but been reliable. Would NOT buy again.
Regret not getting the H9
It's a shame H9 is not for sale in AU anymore, I would have gotten it instead of H6
We are the same my wife has one it’s been ok but has the worst cruise control I have ever used can’t hold speed on flat road wish we had of stuck with a Pajero we originally ordered.
Love the mG4 ev ❤❤❤❤❤🇬🇧
Lol glad you do! 😉 not really my cup of tea
Resale value is gunna be ok on the MG4 as the LFP battery has a 7 yr warrentee
I don't think resale value is all about battery... 🙄
Do you trust Chery? This is the second time Chery is released in Australia, this brand used to be sold but failed and pulled out of Australia. Second time lucky or second time unlucky?
I would not buy Omoda 5 as I think the quality is just not there. But then, I watch SA videos and they rate Tiggo 8 Pro higher than Haval H6, and those guys know what they are talking about. So never say never I guess.
@@ValueCarsAUSpeaking of Chery SA, if you read HelloPeter about Chery, there are a few complaints about chery tiggo pro 7 leaking when it rains. The rest is about the tiggo pro 4 and very bad After sales; granted, even Toyota got like 2 stars only.
.
I can hear my Russian accent. Thanks, brother. I have no idea which Chinese car is good enough.
Спасибо за подсказку, удачи Дима.
Всегда рад своим на канале, заходите еще!
Which Chinese car to buy? The answer would be none. Value is the combination of price and quality.
In theory, sure, sounds nice. But unfortunately not everyone has the upfront amount of money that would get them the premium product that Chinese certainly don't produce in their affordable price range.
You are too biased and brainw4shed which makes any discussion impossible.
@@ValueCarsAU In some cases you do not have to pay more to get an established brand such as Mitsubishi and Suzuki. These cars have far superior build quality to any Chinese car. Chinese cars may offer “better value” in the way that they have more tech and trinkets for the price but at the end of the day you’re better off with a better quality more reliable vehicle.
Given these companies enough time to evolve and mature will produce sturdier and better cars in the future much like Kia and Hyundai back in the 90s look at them now
@@DrBenz88 actually, i was considering suzuki, when i saw the horrible safety rating of the baleno. it is so thin. not worth my life, or at the very least, a dent if someone comes near it.
Good on you for having a good go at this Dmitry but your failure to properly evaluate the BYD offerings left a gaping hole in your commentary/opinion piece 🤔
Fair point mate, I will take a closer look at BYD when a convenient opportunity presents itself, however I still believe that they have a TINY footprint in Australia - as said in the video - which is why I (personally) would not consider them.
Thanks for replying Dmitry, in May, the BYD Atto 3 was the third highest selling EV in Australia. Their market share has improved substantially since then…..
My mechanic tells me that some Chinese/Indian vehicles can be very difficult to get spare parts for, even basic items.
Does anyone have any information or experience with this (either good or bad stories)?
I'd be also interested to hear from people with facts mate, but just be aware that there are plenty of "brand bashers" lurking about, so they'll tell you horror stories that the brands don't deserve. I've never had an issue with my MG or other vehicles, but that being said - nothing really bad happened to them, and I always went to the brand service centre, so they always had everything I needed.
to be honest, as chinese.. none of these are good..... GIAC is ok.... others.... are just budget choice... Go for BYD, and NIO!
We don't have NIO. Re. BYD, yes I'm hearing good things. It's an old video, my opinion of different brands is evolving.
I don't think so. Honestly, byd or NIO is not a good choice for me.