During the 1920s, Agatha was a "witch for hire" and was asked to cast a Binding Spell for money. She did not know Jennifer Kale was the person she bound.
OOOOHHHH. I loved the reveal of her being the one to bind Jen and I just thought she cast some weird spell to get money that happened to affect Jen, but his makes SOOOOO much sense! thanks for pointing that out!
The thing is, I am not certain she actually did. I feel like she knew that Jen could break through. Just as she did you could see Agatha's demeanor change. I've looked at it a couple of times now and It's certain that she wanted the binding broken.
@@AJ-kt5zo nope, witch in this instance is the correct, non-gendered term. Warlock in Marvel has connotations of "oath breaker" or "demon worshipper". Billy in the comics, and in the MCU (interviews with Joe, and various writers) prefer "witch"
Navi, Lilia was dressed as Glinda, the Good Witch for "The Wizard of Oz". Suraj, Jennifer was dressed as the Evil Queen from Snow White who disguised herself as the old woman who gave her the poison apple.
Billy was a member of the coven. Lilia drew a black heart because she couldn't write his name because of the sigil. His boyfriend texted him "you're my 🖤." And finally, Jac, the show runner, confirmed that he was meant to be the black heart.
Yeah its funny that a lot of people are surprisingly ignorant in the history of money. You use the word bank note and they have no idea what that is. Heck some people don't even know what the gold standard was.
Witch is gender neutral irl but in marvel what your called is based on what kind of magic you practice. Billy practices witchcraft so he’s a witch. People who do the dr strange style of magic are sorcerers. Different ways of accessing magic.
I always think that witchcraft is like Biology and Chemistry, while sorcery is more akin to theoretical physics and advanced mathematics. Sheldon is a sorcerer and Amy is a witch. 😂
@@knighthawk3749 totally makes sense. All the sorcerers' spell effects are like mathematical and geometric. Whereas the witches' spells are more natural and emotional feeling if that makes sense?
Technically, he's wiccan, because he's . . . Wiccan. Dr. Strange, Wong, et al. use 'analog magic', like How Billy calls it while the others scoff. Witches are born with it.
@@ChipsMc2they are, but witch is like the word “actor”. You can refer to a woman as a good actor, it’s a gender neutral word, but you can also call a woman a good actress if you want to be more specific.
He’s alone, he has no one in the world and he’s scared, having to put his brother in an abused bullied kid is heartbreaking for Tommy and Thomas Shepard
Billy was one of the witches in the coven. He was the black heart, not Rio. Agatha even calls her a tourist. Rio got on the road because Sharon died. She was never supposed to be part of the road
It was a good mislead because Rio's "black heart" line was well before Billy's 'black heart' emoji from boyf. I saw someone else somewhere say that it makes sense that his place was just a black heart though because it's not like she could have written his name, he was still under the sigil so no witch would have been able to know it. Still, expecting the Normies to catch nuance though lmao.
Agatha didn't know and didn't care. Someone gave her some bank notes (aka money. Bank notes is another term for money, specifically paper money) and she gave them a spell to use. They were driving me crazy.
Presumably, the doctor we saw in 1x03 went to Agatha to procur a binding spell for Jen which Agatha was hapoy to provide not knowing who the intended victim was.
@@knighthawk3749add to that the witches live A long time. She said paper note not a common modern thing to always say. Hinting the doctor could be from old times and jealous a woman or diversity yadda yadda you get the idea. Likely they cut that explicit confirmation to not anger the already tilted people calling Disney bad without watching. 😂
@@knighthawk3749 okay. Wasn’t certain of the timeline. Yeah some people likely missed it and thought it was her fault i don’t know. 🤷 subtlety is lost for some and not others. Didn’t watch this ep yet just supporting normies as well 😂not a market substitute
1. No Agatha wasn’t aware she’d bound Jen the entire time, hence her realisation when Jen mentioned Boston. 2. No Billy didn’t facilitate any killing. As Agatha said, 120 people die every minute, they were searching for someone about to die and leave the body to be inhabited. 3. After many, MANY years of watching the majority of reactors on RUclips obsessively, I have come to the conclusion that most people could watch a cat meow for an hour and still think it’s a godamn dog barking.
I must be choosing my reactors well, most of the ones I follow who watched this have anywhere near the same confusion as this bunch. Eventually I'm going to learn. I keep hoping, and they keep proving my hope futile.
Navi and Suraj, I believe Billy aka Wiccan created the Witches Road ( like Wanda created Westview ) after doing all the research on Agatha and learning of the song with inspiration from his room decor, as away to find his brother Tommy Maximoff aka Speed. Loved the whole "Wizard of Oz" you had the power to go home all along vibe in this episode.
Jen was the Evil Queen from Snow White when she disguised herself to give her the poisoned apple (We see her in the end credits). William was the black heart. His boyfriend called him 'My Black Heart' in his text before he broke into Agatha's house. 😊
The road put Jen in the path of the witch who bound her in the first place. It gave her back the opportunity to unbind herself. It gave her her path forward.
I'm thinking about Tommy having to go through all the amnesia after the reincarnation, but unlike Billy, he won't have loving parents with him... he's completely lost, doesn't know who he is and what's happening, surrounded by people who don't care about him. Damn :(
It’s so sad because that’s how his power is going to manifest he’s going to be so scared running for his life, I feel immense grief and empathy for billy and Tommy and the boys who’s body’s they took
Yeah he’s missing the forest for the trees in a lot of online media hatedom. He as leader scopes the Reddit controversy and forgets a lot is grifter hate and bots spewing hate. He realized he was becoming negative though and is a good guy imo just gotta realize the grift sometimes vs legit criticism from good faith that they don’t like the series. Saying you hate the kisses or so on vs just cause they are you know. Not giving them kudos cause your listening to grifters is missing the forest for the trees. The character is like that in comics but they could have played it down entirely. Yes the grifters have a slight point that’s how you grift have some reasoning from a bad place. But at one point it was vile to see mixed couples. Disney fought for a movie to have one. The grifters back then would say stop patting yourself on back and shoving it down my throught make it subtle. Vise verse why include Indian kissing out of race if not important to plot. See the point. Not as important today cause strives in past though most on screen couples are still non mixed. Or if they are one ethnicity mixes most. Overall we’re a world of humans decided over stupid stuff. Attack on titan and the way people can’t even understand that and many who would oppose some humanitarian laws made in past somehow also wanted gen-- sooo we’re just a bunch of confused people and steps need to be made by someone even if for profit to move to a better world
35:40 the LGBT themes were more subtle than I would have expected considering the negative reception the show got at first from that "specific" (homophobic) side of the Marvel fandom (even BEFORE the show was released), but I agree wholeheartedly with what Suraj said. Disney usually brag about having an LGBT character to their story (to score points with younger audiences and with people that would otherwise not be interested in their repetitive (99% straight) projects), but when that movie or show is released, the character couldn't be less important to the story (and they may hold hands or have a little kiss on the background). This time they didn't really go all in promoting it as an LGBT-centric show in the promos (to avoid more pushback), BUT did deliver when it comes to LGBT content. Compared to the rest of the MCU projects, this feels like it's 15 years ahead in terms of TRUE representation and a realistic LGBT character that also happens to be a MAIN character, but again, other than the scene in the car between Billy and Teddy (or Eddy?) and a few scenes between Agatha and Rio, the rest of the show only had subtle hints or references (and a couple of jokes in episode 7).
PS: I'm REALLY happy you guys had that discussion at the end to clear any misunderstandings. And again, I agree with you guys. For once Marvel (and... Disney -.-) didn't half-ass it when it comes to LGBT characters. Now I just need Billy and Agatha to kick ass, and also Rio to make some appearances and cause some damage (but not to Agatha, Wanda, Tommy or Billy).
@@JordiVanderwaalit’s tuff cause if Disney puts it forward people complain stop making gay people just gay as trait. If they make it subtle people say why keep it in there like surj I bearely noticed. Then those who hate always notice and boycott. The fact they even try as a big budget company is admirable to me. Saying ugh they are bad cause they show off about it to me misses the point. It’s like saying actors are bad for showing off that they Neal for the flag to peacefully protest then complaining in the future they did noting after the fact when things get better. At some point media will be diverse and accepting and none of this will matter like seeing blood in a kids show or complex plots without a knowledge is power ending. It will be common place but steps have to be made. Or we’ll just go back to only fraught couples. But yes it is celebrated every time it happens for a reason and surj missed that point. At some points he comes off hard -- and that’s what people mean. He comes off out of touch or losing his way even though he’s still open minded and smart. People I don’t think they don’t think he’s homophobic or racist etc. people tend to put anger out on wrong group. Those on their side that stray a bit less extreme. He just likes seeing both sides but today sides are rigid and a lot are bad faith actors who really just hate for the sake of it. There’s no moral good in stopping people from loving people as long as no one is injured no laws broken. 😞 also he states the show is subtle and that’s how it should be done or not subtle whatever. To get to the point where Disney doesn’t have to make a big deal they take a chance as a big company..
I like to think when Rio exited out of the Road after talking with Agatha, she was supposed to just exit off screen, but she decided to go off script and cut a hole through the matt panting. "Rio? Rio, that's not where you're--you're supposed to go-- Rio, what are you doing with that knife? That painting is expensive--it--okay."
Yeah I am with you on this. Disney likes to pat themselves on the back about LGBT themes but mostly they just p*ssyfoot around it. Here they finally grew a spine and embraced it properly. If your going to go with those themes don't pull punches I say.
@WDFilms25 shut up bigot. There is nothing dangerous about showing LGBTQ ppl exist. And what does being a father have to do with it? Do you know how many fathers AND mothers are supportive if their children come out? If you're one of the fathers who wouldn't be supportive, then you're the dangerous one. Ppl like you are why so many ppl, kids and adults alike, are afraid to come out and be themselves. So again, shut up
Jen unbinding herself is such a cathartic scene! I know people hate “woke” metaphors but a black woman being hurt by a white woman getting ahead and being a healed from that hurt speaks to my SOUL!!!!
@TheNormies, 25:58 Agatha is a ghost because of the deal she made with Death; she delivered Death Billy, as promised. Agatha said she'd do as she asked, but in exchange, Death would never see her again. If Death can't come to collect you when you die, you become a ghost--"I hate ghosts," Rio/Death. Death is bound by the contracts she makes.
I believe the Eternals wasn't even released in China, partially due to China not approving Hollywood movies during that time, and probably also because Chloe Zhao, despite being China Chinese, made some comments about how she came from a place full of lies in some old interview. So gay kiss or no gay kiss it wasn't going to make it. I suspect Disney is more open with having LGBT content on Disney+ because Disney+ isn't available in China anyway.
I thought mentioning Nicky was triggering her guilt. But I think it was triggering her love and humanity. Also I thought him driving off in a car was funny looking but he’s outta juice mostly
33:40 Billy was actually included as part of the coven, he was the "black heart" that Lilia drew. We all thought it was Rio for the first 3-4 episodes, but during the Billy flashback episode, Billy's boyfriend texted him "you're my *blackheart emoji*" (or something like this.
ever since the first few episodes where we realise she lost her son, I've thought back to how much emotion was shown on her face and in her voice in that scene. the one time she was not only off script but also let her guard down. also looking back agatha's relationship with the twins and even agatha throughout wandavision has such deeper meaning since both their stories are kinda similar in a sense. boy moms unite
The existence of the road here is literally the reason Jen got to confront the witch who bound her. So yes, the road did give her what she was seeking.
18:49 Navi is correct just because they haven't shown it it doesn't mean they're upgrades. Just realising his full potential. Its always been his powers
I kinda disagree with Navi here. I think this is a very gay show in many ways, but done right in my opinion.The LGBT moments goes beyond the same sex kisses: the pop culture references, the costumes, the singing etc. But, at least for me, it felt natural and as homage. Awesome work from the creators team 😊
I still remembered when pat react to Wandavision finale, he say he want more action. but here, he say that so good not because Agataha have more action but because the story is really good. even Pat is agree. hahah
From the way I looked at it Agatha was the green witch. From the way she solved the trial to the way she died. The 1st trial they went through everyone assumed it was because it was about death but this before we learned that Rio was death. I fact Rio was the first one to suggest it was her trial. It was basically Rio missing with Agatha.
@@Eternalsfangreen witch doesn’t necessarily mean their powers are actually green it just means nature based magic. Important characters they just usually give a color theme to differentiate their magic. Like blue color could be for water for all we know or something we don’t really get how the color works.
36:57 Mark! Heh! In "Star Trek: First Contact" there was covert homosexuality that was so stealthy no one noticed. The actor who played "Lieutenant Hawk" explained it on either "The View" or "The Talk" that his brother called him to ask him if he knew that his character was a homosexual or not, and that he was supposedly the first "openly gay" character in "Star Trek" history! He didn't know anything about it! His brother explained that it is a part of the character biography on the trading card and on other stuff! Since his character didn't do anything sexual at all, he had no idea! But he said he was okay with it. Compare that to the "Sulu Scandal"! 😮
So we have "The Scarlet Witch", a powerful chaos magic user. and "The Green Witch" Rio, Death. I wonder if there are other capital letter color universal level witches. Rio's green crown is a bit different than wanda/billy's but present none the less.
Maybe Death's twin and older sister Life (well they both are really genderless but prefer to be female in Marvel) has a crown also. Now that Death is officially a character in the MCU, Life now needs to become a Marvel character , she is also a child of Eternity and the Yin to Death's yang. If "In the end all roads lead to me" - Death. then also it should be "In the beginning all roads start from me" - Life.
Billy didn’t kill the kid for Tommy to go in. He was already gonna die. That’s why Agatha mentions right after “ Sometimes boys just die” also referring to her son.
34:08 Mark! Hmm. For the television series and the movie "Bewitched" females are "Witches" and males are "Warlocks" while in "Harry Potter" she chose "Wizard" for the males but kept "Witch" for the females. But in interviews shown on "Inside Edition" if I recall correctly, that's the news magazine series that whenever Wiccans were interviewed for each movie debut, they emphasized that both genders are "Witches" and all are good! "Wicked Witch" is a misnomer because "Warlocks" are bad and can be either gender! 😮 That fiction gets it wrong! 😮
We just need Tommy and Hulkling and we are set. My theory is that to keep it simple for general audiences they might use Hulk's son from She-Hulk as Hulkling.
@@lilbrownbear I was thinking the same thing. She is in Jersey city. Did they ever said where Westview is? Bohner mentioned Paramus. So it might be near there?
@@knighthawk3749 im not american so idk what any of it means 😭 but thinking it over a lil more i reckon they might crossover billy with one of her friends instead of herself and save their first interaction for young avengers. UNLESS they cook something up in regards to kamala recruiting the young avengers like she did with kate in that one post credit scene.
Jen was the witch who gave Snow White the apple. Lilia was Glenda from wizard of oz. Also Wiccan in comics is ultra powerful much more than his mother. Yall should definitely check into the lore if u like this version of his character.
Why do you still seem surprised that Agatha has done terrible things and doesn't feel much remorse for it?? She's a terrible person, a villian, of course she's a dick lol. Just because she's the main character doesn't mean she's a good person or a hero. Yes she has experience terrible things but she's still a villain
Y'all yapping over the line "Sometimes.... Boys die." One of the best, most emotional lines in the series and y'all were so busy talking you didn't even hear it.
THERE WAS NO WITCH IN CINDERELLA! Lillia was the “Good Witch” from Wizard of Oz! ALL THESE YEARS & NOBODY ON THE COUCH HAS WATCHED THE WIZARD OF OZ!?! “SHAME! SHAME! SHAME!”
so the part with Billy asking if he killed someone so his brother could live, Agatha basically answers him once he was gone... she said "No Billy, sometimes boys die".. Billy isn't the cause of that boys death unfortunate circumstances can occur.. It hits even harder knowing what comes up in the next episode on rewatch... as horrible as Agatha was she experience true love in her son and he was "taken from her"... my sympathies for any parent that has to bury their child
Agatha deal with death was if she got Billy to surrender she didn't want to see deaths face when she died, meaning Agatha wouldn't have to crossover if she chooses not to
i view this episode as the finale, and god damn what an episode it was. Top 3 Marvel for me after Loki 2x6 and Wandavision 1x8. Agatha hearing Billy and finally choosing to face death so that she could save a boy this time, unlike when she was helpless in saving Nicky, felt very climatic. She remained a sort of a villain, yet she still had a heart. The kiss and the death were so beautiful and sad ☹️
39:19 Mark! I'm Viewer #29,994! 🎉 2.3K Thumbs Up + Mine! 👍 Normies, you're welcome, and thanks! 😊 Notes: Heh. I remember that at "OU" in Norman, Oklahoma, members of "GALA" ("Gay And Lesbian Alliance") had to constantly explain to people that guys were "gay" and gals were "lesbian"! Ironically enough, Ellen Degeneres said on her talk show that as a happy person, she preferred "gay", whereas "lesbian" made it sound like she was from Libya or some similar sounding country. Until I sent an email to her, she apparently didn't know the history of Queen Sappho of Lesbos Isle! 😅😮 These days the citizens of the island would prefer it if their national identity moniker "Lesbian" wasn't associated with female homosexuals! That males and heterosexuals exist there too! Bye-bye for now! Namaste! 🙏
Normies, I love ya, but sometimes you drive me nuts. There is no witch in Cinderella. (There's a fairy godmother, but no witch.) The witch Jen is dressed as is from Snow White. And Lilia is dressed as Glinda the Good Witch from The Wizard of Oz. Also, "bank notes" is just an old-timey term for cash. Agatha is saying that she used to do spells for money. Someone paid her to do the binding spell, presumably that doctor Jen saw in her vision.
Happy Halloween!!! What is your favorite Halloween Candy?
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Chocolate 🍫
During the 1920s, Agatha was a "witch for hire" and was asked to cast a Binding Spell for money. She did not know Jennifer Kale was the person she bound.
OOOOHHHH. I loved the reveal of her being the one to bind Jen and I just thought she cast some weird spell to get money that happened to affect Jen, but his makes SOOOOO much sense! thanks for pointing that out!
is this in the comic books?
@@MIGHTYM4RS I don't think so. I thought this was clear from the dialogue, but apparently people missed it. We all miss some things, I guess.
@@theonlyonewithgum1452ya she literallt says it was the 1920'S SHE WAS DOING SPELLS for cash 😭😭😭
The thing is, I am not certain she actually did. I feel like she knew that Jen could break through. Just as she did you could see Agatha's demeanor change. I've looked at it a couple of times now and It's certain that she wanted the binding broken.
The poor Westview residents don’t need anymore trauma
Maybe the residents should follow Ralph's example and leave that town.
They are so sick of the Maximoffs 😂😂
same with New Yorkers in the MCU. Pre sure they've had enough too 😂
if you compare population on westview sign ..its droped like 50 percent since wandavision :D
They need to hire Doctor Strange to put some defenses on the town.
Even the credits are a freaking clue. It's all Billy's research. LOVE this show.
Your right billy a warlock technically.
@@AJ-kt5zowarlocks get their powers from a demon pact they aren’t male witches
@@AJ-kt5zo nope, witch in this instance is the correct, non-gendered term. Warlock in Marvel has connotations of "oath breaker" or "demon worshipper". Billy in the comics, and in the MCU (interviews with Joe, and various writers) prefer "witch"
The "Sometimes... boys die" was heartbreaking 😢 looks like they totally missed it, it was such deep emotional scene..
Navi, Lilia was dressed as Glinda, the Good Witch for "The Wizard of Oz".
Suraj, Jennifer was dressed as the Evil Queen from Snow White who disguised herself as the old woman who gave her the poison apple.
every time i watch this channel i lose brain cells
Thank you, I was they still got it wrong. Lol
@@ilymundyliterally
@@ilymundyso not just me, then. Only reason I can think of why I try again is my being optimistic that they learned.
Billy was a member of the coven. Lilia drew a black heart because she couldn't write his name because of the sigil. His boyfriend texted him "you're my 🖤." And finally, Jac, the show runner, confirmed that he was meant to be the black heart.
Ultimate troll to MCU fan theorists always talking about mephisto because Blackheart is his son. lol.
A bank note = money. The doctor paid her to bind someone she didn't know at the time.
yea. not sure why that seemed to be a complicated concept for the panel to grasp. Eh.
@@trembledust6819 Even with a full couch, this group has 1/4 of a brain cell between them. It's actually astounding how much they struggle with.
They were so obtuse that they were killing my brain cells.
@@trembledust6819i also didnt get it, not everyone has the same thinking as you
Yeah its funny that a lot of people are surprisingly ignorant in the history of money. You use the word bank note and they have no idea what that is. Heck some people don't even know what the gold standard was.
Witch is gender neutral irl but in marvel what your called is based on what kind of magic you practice. Billy practices witchcraft so he’s a witch. People who do the dr strange style of magic are sorcerers. Different ways of accessing magic.
I always think that witchcraft is like Biology and Chemistry, while sorcery is more akin to theoretical physics and advanced mathematics. Sheldon is a sorcerer and Amy is a witch. 😂
@@knighthawk3749 totally makes sense. All the sorcerers' spell effects are like mathematical and geometric. Whereas the witches' spells are more natural and emotional feeling if that makes sense?
Technically, he's wiccan, because he's . . . Wiccan. Dr. Strange, Wong, et al. use 'analog magic', like How Billy calls it while the others scoff. Witches are born with it.
I always thought male witches were called warlocks, but nobody seems to use that word anymore.
@@ChipsMc2they are, but witch is like the word “actor”. You can refer to a woman as a good actor, it’s a gender neutral word, but you can also call a woman a good actress if you want to be more specific.
Billy’s search for a body for Tommy broke me!
He’s alone, he has no one in the world and he’s scared, having to put his brother in an abused bullied kid is heartbreaking for Tommy and Thomas Shepard
Rio was about to say "On a road that doesn't.... exist", but Agatha cut her off.😊
Billy was one of the witches in the coven. He was the black heart, not Rio. Agatha even calls her a tourist.
Rio got on the road because Sharon died. She was never supposed to be part of the road
It was a good mislead because Rio's "black heart" line was well before Billy's 'black heart' emoji from boyf. I saw someone else somewhere say that it makes sense that his place was just a black heart though because it's not like she could have written his name, he was still under the sigil so no witch would have been able to know it.
Still, expecting the Normies to catch nuance though lmao.
Agatha literally answered y'all's question about whether or not Billy killed the boy and y'all just talked right through it.
they be acting slow in these reactions it’s like media literacy just goes poof with some of these ppl unfortunately
Agatha was selling spells, “for bank notes”. Ig the doctor guy who bound Jen bought a spell from Agatha and thats how he did it.
I wonder if they know that bank notes is another term for paper money?
It seems like someone paid Agatha to bind but she didn't know exactly who. I'm assuming it was the dude Jen saw in her hallucination.
It was that doctor.
Agatha didn't know and didn't care. Someone gave her some bank notes (aka money. Bank notes is another term for money, specifically paper money) and she gave them a spell to use. They were driving me crazy.
@@knighthawk3749could be for future story beats.
Presumably, the doctor we saw in 1x03 went to Agatha to procur a binding spell for Jen which Agatha was hapoy to provide not knowing who the intended victim was.
Not knowing and not caring.
@@knighthawk3749add to that the witches live A long time. She said paper note not a common modern thing to always say. Hinting the doctor could be from old times and jealous a woman or diversity yadda yadda you get the idea. Likely they cut that explicit confirmation to not anger the already tilted people calling Disney bad without watching. 😂
@@nichescenes It happened in 1920's. There is no need to explain massive misogyny back then.
@@knighthawk3749 okay. Wasn’t certain of the timeline. Yeah some people likely missed it and thought it was her fault i don’t know. 🤷 subtlety is lost for some and not others. Didn’t watch this ep yet just supporting normies as well 😂not a market substitute
@@nichescenes She said in episode 2 that she has been powerless for 100 years. But easy to miss.
1. No Agatha wasn’t aware she’d bound Jen the entire time, hence her realisation when Jen mentioned Boston.
2. No Billy didn’t facilitate any killing. As Agatha said, 120 people die every minute, they were searching for someone about to die and leave the body to be inhabited.
3. After many, MANY years of watching the majority of reactors on RUclips obsessively, I have come to the conclusion that most people could watch a cat meow for an hour and still think it’s a godamn dog barking.
Did we just become best friends???? Cause agree with you fully, I do! 👍🏼😂😂
I must be choosing my reactors well, most of the ones I follow who watched this have anywhere near the same confusion as this bunch.
Eventually I'm going to learn. I keep hoping, and they keep proving my hope futile.
@21:33 So many reactors want Billy to abandon the family car in Westview.
IKR? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Navi and Suraj, I believe Billy aka Wiccan created the Witches Road ( like Wanda created Westview ) after doing all the research on Agatha and learning of the song with inspiration from his room decor, as away to find his brother Tommy Maximoff aka Speed.
Loved the whole "Wizard of Oz" you had the power to go home all along vibe in this episode.
I didn't imagine that Wiccan would do something so big so soon even though he is super powerful in the comics.💙👑
Jen was the Evil Queen from Snow White when she disguised herself to give her the poisoned apple (We see her in the end credits). William was the black heart. His boyfriend called him 'My Black Heart' in his text before he broke into Agatha's house. 😊
The road put Jen in the path of the witch who bound her in the first place. It gave her back the opportunity to unbind herself. It gave her her path forward.
Let’s goooo, had no idea the show would get this good
Next episode rips my heart into a million pieces.
I'm thinking about Tommy having to go through all the amnesia after the reincarnation, but unlike Billy, he won't have loving parents with him... he's completely lost, doesn't know who he is and what's happening, surrounded by people who don't care about him. Damn :(
Being in that kind of environment, a kid would want to run away from all of that...real quick.
@@k9commanderur funny
It’s so sad because that’s how his power is going to manifest he’s going to be so scared running for his life, I feel immense grief and empathy for billy and Tommy and the boys who’s body’s they took
I'm betting that he won't have the social pressure to forget his life in West View and might be much less attached to the history of his body.
Didn't Billy have amnesia because of the sigil? Nobody put a sigil on Tommy. So maybe he'll remember.
Billy Kaplan is a gay man in the comics. It is part of who he is.
Yeah he’s missing the forest for the trees in a lot of online media hatedom. He as leader scopes the Reddit controversy and forgets a lot is grifter hate and bots spewing hate. He realized he was becoming negative though and is a good guy imo just gotta realize the grift sometimes vs legit criticism from good faith that they don’t like the series. Saying you hate the kisses or so on vs just cause they are you know. Not giving them kudos cause your listening to grifters is missing the forest for the trees. The character is like that in comics but they could have played it down entirely. Yes the grifters have a slight point that’s how you grift have some reasoning from a bad place. But at one point it was vile to see mixed couples. Disney fought for a movie to have one. The grifters back then would say stop patting yourself on back and shoving it down my throught make it subtle. Vise verse why include Indian kissing out of race if not important to plot. See the point. Not as important today cause strives in past though most on screen couples are still non mixed. Or if they are one ethnicity mixes most. Overall we’re a world of humans decided over stupid stuff. Attack on titan and the way people can’t even understand that and many who would oppose some humanitarian laws made in past somehow also wanted gen-- sooo we’re just a bunch of confused people and steps need to be made by someone even if for profit to move to a better world
35:40 the LGBT themes were more subtle than I would have expected considering the negative reception the show got at first from that "specific" (homophobic) side of the Marvel fandom (even BEFORE the show was released), but I agree wholeheartedly with what Suraj said. Disney usually brag about having an LGBT character to their story (to score points with younger audiences and with people that would otherwise not be interested in their repetitive (99% straight) projects), but when that movie or show is released, the character couldn't be less important to the story (and they may hold hands or have a little kiss on the background). This time they didn't really go all in promoting it as an LGBT-centric show in the promos (to avoid more pushback), BUT did deliver when it comes to LGBT content. Compared to the rest of the MCU projects, this feels like it's 15 years ahead in terms of TRUE representation and a realistic LGBT character that also happens to be a MAIN character, but again, other than the scene in the car between Billy and Teddy (or Eddy?) and a few scenes between Agatha and Rio, the rest of the show only had subtle hints or references (and a couple of jokes in episode 7).
PS: I'm REALLY happy you guys had that discussion at the end to clear any misunderstandings. And again, I agree with you guys. For once Marvel (and... Disney -.-) didn't half-ass it when it comes to LGBT characters. Now I just need Billy and Agatha to kick ass, and also Rio to make some appearances and cause some damage (but not to Agatha, Wanda, Tommy or Billy).
@@JordiVanderwaalit’s tuff cause if Disney puts it forward people complain stop making gay people just gay as trait. If they make it subtle people say why keep it in there like surj I bearely noticed. Then those who hate always notice and boycott. The fact they even try as a big budget company is admirable to me. Saying ugh they are bad cause they show off about it to me misses the point. It’s like saying actors are bad for showing off that they Neal for the flag to peacefully protest then complaining in the future they did noting after the fact when things get better. At some point media will be diverse and accepting and none of this will matter like seeing blood in a kids show or complex plots without a knowledge is power ending. It will be common place but steps have to be made. Or we’ll just go back to only fraught couples. But yes it is celebrated every time it happens for a reason and surj missed that point. At some points he comes off hard -- and that’s what people mean. He comes off out of touch or losing his way even though he’s still open minded and smart. People I don’t think they don’t think he’s homophobic or racist etc. people tend to put anger out on wrong group. Those on their side that stray a bit less extreme. He just likes seeing both sides but today sides are rigid and a lot are bad faith actors who really just hate for the sake of it. There’s no moral good in stopping people from loving people as long as no one is injured no laws broken. 😞 also he states the show is subtle and that’s how it should be done or not subtle whatever. To get to the point where Disney doesn’t have to make a big deal they take a chance as a big company..
I love the Once More with Feeling poster in Billy's room.
Too bad Anya didn’t make to that poster. That would’ve been so breaking a wall of some sort. She appears in other posters of the episode.
I like to think when Rio exited out of the Road after talking with Agatha, she was supposed to just exit off screen, but she decided to go off script and cut a hole through the matt panting. "Rio? Rio, that's not where you're--you're supposed to go-- Rio, what are you doing with that knife? That painting is expensive--it--okay."
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Happy Halloween 🎃 Agatha is a great show. The build up to these last two episodes were amazing. Very deep and emotional story 🔥🔥
This is my favorite series of this year and it's in MY Top 3 best Marvel series, it will be missed. 😭💜🔮
That moment when you discover who Kaser Soze is... and it's YOU!
Yeah I am with you on this. Disney likes to pat themselves on the back about LGBT themes but mostly they just p*ssyfoot around it. Here they finally grew a spine and embraced it properly. If your going to go with those themes don't pull punches I say.
All that was so unnecessary here. Nothing warranted Agatha having any sexual relationship like that
"If your going to go with those themes don't pull punches I say."
Got to love people who don't know the difference between your and you're .
@@WDFilms25 Go cry about it.
@ no tears on the outside but on the inside. Cause if you knew the father’s heart you’d know how dangerous those themes were
@WDFilms25 shut up bigot. There is nothing dangerous about showing LGBTQ ppl exist. And what does being a father have to do with it? Do you know how many fathers AND mothers are supportive if their children come out? If you're one of the fathers who wouldn't be supportive, then you're the dangerous one. Ppl like you are why so many ppl, kids and adults alike, are afraid to come out and be themselves. So again, shut up
“You know whats not shrinking” is wild
5:22 They did not use green screen for this show. Those are all practical. That's why it has the lowest budget (
I'm still waiting for the Normies to realize that the titles of all the episodes are lyrics from The Witches Road song!
Jen unbinding herself is such a cathartic scene! I know people hate “woke” metaphors but a black woman being hurt by a white woman getting ahead and being a healed from that hurt speaks to my SOUL!!!!
I like that thought, hadn't considered that, I was wondering how that may have tied into the motif of power loss as women's common traumas.
its not woke at all. the subtext was very subtle but so impactful and moving.
@@lilbrownbear Wokeness isn't a matter of subtlety.
@@jp3813 never said it was
Its not woke if its written well. And this show is written well. Haters just need to stfu about "woke this" and "woke that"
I like how they talked over the very emotionally impactful line "Sometimes.... boys die." 😂
@TheNormies,
25:58 Agatha is a ghost because of the deal she made with Death; she delivered Death Billy, as promised. Agatha said she'd do as she asked, but in exchange, Death would never see her again. If Death can't come to collect you when you die, you become a ghost--"I hate ghosts," Rio/Death.
Death is bound by the contracts she makes.
I believe the Eternals wasn't even released in China, partially due to China not approving Hollywood movies during that time, and probably also because Chloe Zhao, despite being China Chinese, made some comments about how she came from a place full of lies in some old interview. So gay kiss or no gay kiss it wasn't going to make it. I suspect Disney is more open with having LGBT content on Disney+ because Disney+ isn't available in China anyway.
I thought mentioning Nicky was triggering her guilt. But I think it was triggering her love and humanity.
Also I thought him driving off in a car was funny looking but he’s outta juice mostly
Also why would he abandon the car? He is not Tony Stark.
the car thing was lowkey a wanda nod imo
Jen was from Snow White... not Cinderalla. Lillia was Glinda the good witch from wizard of oz... not GILDA.... lol
ik cinderella didnt even have a witch and hes so sure about it too thats whats funny
33:40 Billy was actually included as part of the coven, he was the "black heart" that Lilia drew. We all thought it was Rio for the first 3-4 episodes, but during the Billy flashback episode, Billy's boyfriend texted him "you're my *blackheart emoji*" (or something like this.
"You can do that?" Agatha asked Wanda after young Billy thought Wanda could raise the dead dog.
ever since the first few episodes where we realise she lost her son, I've thought back to how much emotion was shown on her face and in her voice in that scene. the one time she was not only off script but also let her guard down. also looking back agatha's relationship with the twins and even agatha throughout wandavision has such deeper meaning since both their stories are kinda similar in a sense. boy moms unite
@@lilbrownbearyeah she wanted her power to do that. She should just take time stone or multiverse hop.
The existence of the road here is literally the reason Jen got to confront the witch who bound her. So yes, the road did give her what she was seeking.
12:25 you guys spoke over Agatha confirming that he didn’t kill the boy.
Navi’s top is so cute omg
18:49 Navi is correct just because they haven't shown it it doesn't mean they're upgrades. Just realising his full potential. Its always been his powers
it was an upgrade in the sense he was never able to latch onto agatha's mind
I kinda disagree with Navi here. I think this is a very gay show in many ways, but done right in my opinion.The LGBT moments goes beyond the same sex kisses: the pop culture references, the costumes, the singing etc. But, at least for me, it felt natural and as homage. Awesome work from the creators team 😊
I still remembered when pat react to Wandavision finale, he say he want more action. but here, he say that so good not because Agataha have more action but because the story is really good. even Pat is agree. hahah
“you know what’s NOT shrinking?” HAHAH SURAJ WAS CRAZY FOR THAT LMAOOOO 😂😂😂
Even Death was shaking her head at Agatha's treachery, like in disbelief during the end of the battle.
William Kaplan is Wiccan and is also The Demiurge.
If he had more experience, he is one of the few people on Earth who could have actually beat Death.
23:10 It was the poster from Buffy's Musical Episode
Once more with feeling.
Kathrine’s anger acting in this episode is absolutely incredible I can _feel_ her rage
Yooo PAT. You were on your shittt this episode 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Billy is the green witch. His trial was the morgue, the one in which they woke up inside bags.
From the way I looked at it Agatha was the green witch. From the way she solved the trial to the way she died. The 1st trial they went through everyone assumed it was because it was about death but this before we learned that Rio was death. I fact Rio was the first one to suggest it was her trial. It was basically Rio missing with Agatha.
His power is blue though. 🤔
@@Eternalsfangreen witch doesn’t necessarily mean their powers are actually green it just means nature based magic. Important characters they just usually give a color theme to differentiate their magic. Like blue color could be for water for all we know or something we don’t really get how the color works.
@@thevoidbender Rios power was green. His is blue. Wandas is scarlet. Each one symbolizes a different type of power. It’s not interchangeable.
No he isn’t… lmao
Agatha allowed the terrible stories about Nicky to exist, so they would make her out as evil and powerful to others/enemies.
Watching Agatha with y'all has really made me realize just how much style that Navi has. Serving all the looks on the witches road lol
36:57 Mark! Heh! In "Star Trek: First Contact" there was covert homosexuality that was so stealthy no one noticed. The actor who played "Lieutenant Hawk" explained it on either "The View" or "The Talk" that his brother called him to ask him if he knew that his character was a homosexual or not, and that he was supposedly the first "openly gay" character in "Star Trek" history! He didn't know anything about it! His brother explained that it is a part of the character biography on the trading card and on other stuff! Since his character didn't do anything sexual at all, he had no idea! But he said he was okay with it.
Compare that to the "Sulu Scandal"! 😮
You guys have to watch 8 & 9 back to back for the authenticity
That’s what I’m saying
They did, live on twitch too. 9 edited cut is cooking.
So we have "The Scarlet Witch", a powerful chaos magic user. and "The Green Witch" Rio, Death. I wonder if there are other capital letter color universal level witches. Rio's green crown is a bit different than wanda/billy's but present none the less.
Maybe Death's twin and older sister Life (well they both are really genderless but prefer to be female in Marvel) has a crown also. Now that Death is officially a character in the MCU, Life now needs to become a Marvel character , she is also a child of Eternity and the Yin to Death's yang. If "In the end all roads lead to me" - Death. then also it should be "In the beginning all roads start from me" - Life.
Jen couldn't kill Agatha. She would just steal her power.
No gonna lie
This show cooked hard
Billy didn’t kill the kid for Tommy to go in. He was already gonna die. That’s why Agatha mentions right after “ Sometimes boys just die” also referring to her son.
I just caught that Agatha literally says “there’s no place like home “ this episode. Ha. Comedy.
It's insane that after the big battle we still got more twists and reveals. And there's still more to come in episode 9.
34:08 Mark! Hmm. For the television series and the movie "Bewitched" females are "Witches" and males are "Warlocks" while in "Harry Potter" she chose "Wizard" for the males but kept "Witch" for the females. But in interviews shown on "Inside Edition" if I recall correctly, that's the news magazine series that whenever Wiccans were interviewed for each movie debut, they emphasized that both genders are "Witches" and all are good! "Wicked Witch" is a misnomer because "Warlocks" are bad and can be either gender! 😮 That fiction gets it wrong! 😮
Love this show
Did they talk over the heaviest line of the show or just not show it?
This a fantastic episode. I've been a fan of Wiccan since 2005.
Yaay for the Buffy poster.
All im saying is, Young Avengers is coming. Shoutout to Ms. Marvel for making it a reality!
We just need Tommy and Hulkling and we are set. My theory is that to keep it simple for general audiences they might use Hulk's son from She-Hulk as Hulkling.
it's so exciting to think about how both billy and kamala live in jersey. can't wait for a crossover before an actual teamup in young avengers
@@lilbrownbear I was thinking the same thing. She is in Jersey city. Did they ever said where Westview is? Bohner mentioned Paramus. So it might be near there?
@@knighthawk3749 im not american so idk what any of it means 😭 but thinking it over a lil more i reckon they might crossover billy with one of her friends instead of herself and save their first interaction for young avengers. UNLESS they cook something up in regards to kamala recruiting the young avengers like she did with kate in that one post credit scene.
@@lilbrownbear That scene felt like Kamala is going to try to recruit Young Avengers and started with Kate because she was the closest.
So Spidey would have immediately died because he forgot that attacking Agatha with a witch’s power lets her drain you and kill you.
Anyone that thinks Billy is killing the new vessel for Tommy literally does not understand the story.
Jen was the witch who gave Snow White the apple. Lilia was Glenda from wizard of oz. Also Wiccan in comics is ultra powerful much more than his mother. Yall should definitely check into the lore if u like this version of his character.
Suraj: She(Agatha) is angry, desperate.
Me: And being a b****.
29:10 "It was just like, things he knows..."
Just like his mother & the sitcoms~
Why do you still seem surprised that Agatha has done terrible things and doesn't feel much remorse for it?? She's a terrible person, a villian, of course she's a dick lol. Just because she's the main character doesn't mean she's a good person or a hero. Yes she has experience terrible things but she's still a villain
I really loved the eerie music in this episode and Aubrey Plaza killed it as the "Death" character..she was my favorite character in the entire show.
Billy is the Black heart, the whole road was his trial
Happy Halloween, everybody.
Y'all yapping over the line "Sometimes.... Boys die." One of the best, most emotional lines in the series and y'all were so busy talking you didn't even hear it.
THERE WAS NO WITCH IN CINDERELLA!
Lillia was the “Good Witch” from Wizard of Oz!
ALL THESE YEARS & NOBODY ON THE COUCH HAS WATCHED THE WIZARD OF OZ!?!
“SHAME! SHAME! SHAME!”
so the part with Billy asking if he killed someone so his brother could live, Agatha basically answers him once he was gone... she said "No Billy, sometimes boys die".. Billy isn't the cause of that boys death unfortunate circumstances can occur..
It hits even harder knowing what comes up in the next episode on rewatch... as horrible as Agatha was she experience true love in her son and he was "taken from her"... my sympathies for any parent that has to bury their child
Agatha deal with death was if she got Billy to surrender she didn't want to see deaths face when she died, meaning Agatha wouldn't have to crossover if she chooses not to
Ralph was the smartest person to leave Westview
I actually felt bad for him. He was severely traumatized.
YES THE BUFFY POSTER AAAH
Hello guys👋. I’m pretty sure the Buffy poster is from the musical episode Anya was in that one. And now she was in this show, that’s so meta.
i view this episode as the finale, and god damn what an episode it was. Top 3 Marvel for me after Loki 2x6 and Wandavision 1x8. Agatha hearing Billy and finally choosing to face death so that she could save a boy this time, unlike when she was helpless in saving Nicky, felt very climatic. She remained a sort of a villain, yet she still had a heart. The kiss and the death were so beautiful and sad ☹️
I would’ve loved to see Agatha All along cosplay during Halloween. Also Dandadan and Turbo Granny.
I really enjoyed the comic-accurate costumes of Wiccan and Death.
Jen was the wicked witch from Snow White.
Love the reaction 💕
TGIF!!
Imagine if they ended the season here. Internet would have died
Agatha told us in ep 1, the Witches Rods isn’t real.
Jen is the witch from Snow White, the wicked stepmother who gives her the apple. Cinderella only had a wicked stepmother.
I'm not spoiling anything, because I'm sure you guys have already watched the next episode, but yes, the ones that died on the road, really died.
"No Billy, sometimes boys die" should have been shown.
39:19 Mark! I'm Viewer #29,994! 🎉 2.3K Thumbs Up + Mine! 👍 Normies, you're welcome, and thanks! 😊
Notes: Heh. I remember that at "OU" in Norman, Oklahoma, members of "GALA" ("Gay And Lesbian Alliance") had to constantly explain to people that guys were "gay" and gals were "lesbian"! Ironically enough, Ellen Degeneres said on her talk show that as a happy person, she preferred "gay", whereas "lesbian" made it sound like she was from Libya or some similar sounding country. Until I sent an email to her, she apparently didn't know the history of Queen Sappho of Lesbos Isle! 😅😮
These days the citizens of the island would prefer it if their national identity moniker "Lesbian" wasn't associated with female homosexuals! That males and heterosexuals exist there too!
Bye-bye for now! Namaste! 🙏
Normies, I love ya, but sometimes you drive me nuts. There is no witch in Cinderella. (There's a fairy godmother, but no witch.) The witch Jen is dressed as is from Snow White. And Lilia is dressed as Glinda the Good Witch from The Wizard of Oz.
Also, "bank notes" is just an old-timey term for cash. Agatha is saying that she used to do spells for money. Someone paid her to do the binding spell, presumably that doctor Jen saw in her vision.