A More Complex Go Game on 9×9 with Commentary
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- Опубликовано: 25 июн 2024
- In most cases the board doesn't get split 50/50 in Go. There is fighting, capturing, attachments, sacrifices and all of that makes the game more unpredictable! Let's review another game and explain what happens there.
#GoGame #Baduk #Weiqi #Igo #GoMagic #GoLessons #Learning #BoardGame #MindGame #MindSport #TraditionalGame #AncientGame #StrategyGame #ChineseGame #JapaneseGame #GameSample #GoBasics #GoBeginner
Go Magic - A modern platform for learning Go
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00:00:00 Intro
00:00:31 Feel the flow
00:04:50 The rule of ko
00:07:22 Scoring
00:08:47 Final words
Perfect explanation of what a ko threat actually is. Nice!
pheeew, that was hard! =)
Just randomly got recommended a Go tutorial video and nothing could have been better today.
Just finished this playlist and you've got really great videos. So simply and cleanly explained and on top of that the production quality is top tier. Looking forward to learning more GO MAGIC.
There is much more for you to check out! Have fun exploring =)
I love this channel, thank you. You probably are single-handedly bringing in so many new players. 10/10!
We do it multihandedly! =)
Thanks!
@@GoMagic best go channel on RUclips..Keep it up!
Very nice animations and great explanations!
Thank you!
Thank you for great 9x9 content!
😇
Los videos de este canal son muy buenos, hacen que lo complejo se entienda de forma muy simple
Gracias.
personal policy: Once I watch 3 videos from a channel, I sub. Now I sub
Sounds reasonable =)
Welcome!
Loving these videos! The editing and graphics are amazing.
🤩
Love the edits!
Thanks =)
Thank you for helping me to finally wrap my head around this game! Great channel.
Really happy to help! Stay tuned for more good stuff =)
very nice video!! Thanks a lot
Great explanation. Super work, congrats.
Thank you!
Your Channel is absolutely amazing. Just very well made, educational and relaxing at the same time.
Thank you for your kind words. Such comments keep us motivated.
Great videos 👍🏼 I only recently tried learning this game and am currently playing around with a mobile Go app. I can say as early as now, this game is deceptively simple looking yet is actually deeply complex.
Oh yes!
Great video!
Thanks a lot!
Bro, I think I'll try to memorize this game, this is such a useful teaching tool.
Thank you!
brilliant ❤
Thanks!
thanks sir
You're welcome!
Nice video bro ;)
Yo thanks!
beautiful game
😁
Just started Go last night! Do you think this game could become more popular in the USA? Loving your videos!
Thanks! Of course, as the US is an incredibly diverse country! However to become more popular a lot of factors need to come together: enthusiasts, clubs and teachers, sponsorship and many more...
These videos are great. I've been wanting to get into Go but havent really found beginner friendly materials before this channel. However, I can't figure out why a side with prisoners shouldn't try to defend their stones in order to get the opponent to put more stones into their own territory.
Every time you add another prisoner, you give them one extra point, right? Then they respond and the score becomes even again.
@@GoMagic It's so obvious when you put it like that haha, thanks for the reply.
Happy to help 😇
Love your content. Is there an app for the phone?
You mean an app to use our website? - No, but there's a mobile version.
Or do you mean an app to play Go? - Yes, there are many. Goquest is one of them.
Very interesting! @7:36 you explain the difference between opponent stones being prisoners during the game, but as soon as the game ends they become captured.. This knowledge can become confusing very fast, most beginners would try to spend stones during the game to capture them.. But leaving them prisoner makes sense to prevent unnecessary turns.. However my comment to another video in this series was about counting methods, that also determines if captured/prisoner stones are counted or not.. So this is still a bit tough to comprehend, how to combine that knowledge from captured into prisoners, without placing all the surrounding stones, especially when different counting methods get involved.. Can you explain a bit more please? The difficult part would be for (beginner) players to know and agree if all the regarding empty spaces surrounding the area of interest can become living or just prisoner, could be very hard to read..
Indeed this is not easy to read, and my advice would be - don't try to!
Just leave it be, doing your best not to spend extra moves. It will gradually become easier. It might take several months to fully process this.
Hi, I've been watching lots of your videos and really enjoyed it. Can I please request one topic for you to cover? I would like to understand more about wedge move. As a beginner, wedge seems scary because it might disconnect my group that tries to do one space jump (especially in 19x19 game where I try to move one space jump to the center)
Thanks for the suggestion. We'll see if we can cover it sometime. =)
3:45 So, you actually can suicide a stone if the move takes opponent stones. When I was learning with the previous videos, I thought you could only do that in the middle of an opponent group, ocuppying the single eye. Thanks for the videos, anyway, they are so good.
If some stones have only one liberty left, they can be captured, regardless of whether it looks like a sacrifice or not =)
Loving your clear explanations! But there's one thing I didn't get - at 7:15, why does black make that connecting move if it doesn't add to black's territory or take away from white's territory?
Thank you!
Because that corner stone is in ATARI, so if Black doesn't connect there, White would capture it next.
@@GoMagic Ah, thx!
@@GoMagic So after a pass the Ko rule is not applicable anymore?
struggling with this one too. White already passed. If black passes, the game ends. No opportunity for white to make another move. It also looks pretty clearly in blacks territory to me (but thats something i struggle with as a beginner), so the connection after white passed looked like black was just giving up a point
Can I ask why black played the very last connection in the bottom right? I'm not understanding why that was necessary.
Another strange question, do people ever remove the equally matched prisoners to make counting easier? Say you have eight prisoners and I have five, wouldn't it be easier for you to just place down three since that's the difference?
1. If Black doesn't connect there, White will capture that stone again. Black doesn't want to lose it, so we connect and save it.
2. Yes, that's possible. However often one player only counts one color. For example if you and I play a game, I might count your territory at the end and you will count mine. This way it might be easier to just count prisoners as they are.
@@GoMagic Thank you for the reply! With white passing, black has the power to end the game with another pass, and score one more point of territory in that corner, or am I mistaken?
4:22 Why does white play at that A2 spot instead of one higher at A3? Wouldn't it reduce black by 1?
You're right, it would. But these aren't super strong players so sometimes they make mistakes.
A3 create corner weakness which end in black initiative. Black would be able to play the bottom right corner before white, eliminating ko and immediately win the corner. but it doesn't matter because black would have won that ko fight anyway. So it is indeed, a mistake from white.
Two questions.
1. What do you think about International rules? Is another ruleset better for beginners?
2. Can you suggest a good Go app for android, that is free?
1. Still no better ruleset than Japanese or Chinese
2. Depends on what kind of app you're looking for.
3:47 I thought immediate recapturing is not allowed. Why can white still capture the black stone?
- After watching for one more minute you actually explained Ko :D So with the recapture at 3:47 it is not the exact same board as before so it is allowed then right?
It's not the exact same board as before. Black captured 2, and white can't restore the pervious state with just one move.
Right!
At 3:43, why is Black allowed to move into the dot-indicated space? It's fully surrounded, and in a previous video suicide was noted to be an illegal move.
It is an exception. You can move into an eye, if that move is a capture.
I'm quite new to the game... what was the purpose of black's final move?
You mean connecting? To save the save and not let White capture it again.
Question about black's last move after the first white pass
Why didn't black just pass here ? Playing on that square simingly blocked one of their territory. Wouldn't they have just had 1 more territory point had they not played that move ?
This question has been asked several times =) You can see the answer in the comments =))
Why did black connect to the corner stone at 7:16 , when white didn't have any more ko threats?
A stone in atari can't build a territory. Black wouldn't get a point anyway.
May I ask why the black filled in the last bottom right square if white was passing and couldn't play there anymore? 7:12
Because the stone is in atari and therefore this point wouldn't give Black any points anyway.
@@GoMagic thanks!
6:00 is there a double life in upperright corner? black at 2x2
Yep, exactly, there is a seki, we didn't notice while making this position.
This, however, is a video for complete beginners, so it's fine :D
what happens if there isn't enough space to return all the prisoners back ? (assuming that's mathematically possible ?)
It's possible. Then we can exchange some prisoners.
Superb explanation bro.... I'll definitely buy a 9x9 board to practice it
good place to start!
If there are extra whites stones but all white spaces are filled, does white points go into negative?
No, you'd usually subtract from the opponent's points to bring it to zero
at 7:09, why would black fill the spot that is in my understanding inside his area and could end the game?
The corner stone can still be captured. If that's the case, how can that point ever belong to Black? That point is neutral and needs to be filled then.
At 7:17 why does black connect? White doesn't want to play there, and in fact cannot without first making a (bad) move somewhere else, so why no collect the point by leaving it vacant?
You can only collect a point if there are no stones in atari, after which you'd have to fill that point. As long as there is a stone one step away from being captured there, White can capture it with the next move, so sadly no points there.
If black did not get the Ko at the end then white would have won? So if the players were counting points in their head, how would this be resolved? Is there a method to who gives up the Ko before passing and ending the game? Thanks
Unfortunately there is no shortcut there. When a game is this close, one needs to count points before it's over to try and estimate what needs to be done. Strong players will often count the number of ko threats both players have before starting any ko.
What would happen if at the end, Black would pass after White passed the first time instead of connecting? Would the game end because of two passes? If they don't agree on the status of dead stones, would White be allowed to take the stone? Is there any difference between Chinese and Japanese rules in this situation?
Then a more experienced player would need to come along and help them resolve that =)
@@GoMagic Thanks, but I thought that the rules of Go are simple that you don't need be an experience player to just play. And If I want to be an experience player myself how should I resolve this?
We are trying to make Go appear simple...but you know...it's not! It's actually one of the hardest games in the world (no kidding), so sometimes a bit of help or advice is necessary =)
As I understand it, it is a difference between Chinese and Japanese rulesets. I'm in the same boat as you though trying to get a straightforward ruleset. I've been learning for a couple of weeks, and I'm pretty tired of some of the "you just have to feel it" answers when there really are concrete rules that people just don't seem to know how to explain. The Chinese ruleset would have black take that point whether or not they fill it, since you get points for all your pieces, and the only ruling for points on blank spaces is whether the space connects to only pieces of your color.
It's the Japanese ruleset that is weird and complicated. Seems to be similar to seki situations. For seki, all pieces and groups that would be taken as either result of the seki (even groups/pieces that would necessarily be taken on subsequent turns), don't count as surrounding actual territory.
For ko, it seems that any pieces or groups that would be taken if not being prevented by the ko also don't count as territory. It seems then to me that the only reason that you fight for ko locations is to be the last one to capture an enemy piece, not to take territory or prevent the enemy from taking territory (since it doesn't count anyway, but the captured piece does count as a point against the opponent). In the Chinese rules, you're fighting to be the last one in control of the spot since it does give you points, while captured pieces don't give points. So in either ruleset, it doesn't make a difference whether he passed or filled it in. But in both rulesets, it's better to fill in a ko spot like that than to do nothing given the opportunity so that the ko doesn't continue. In this case though, passing to end the game before filling it would probably make more sense so you don't give the opponent another turn (just in case they see something that they missed when they passed the first time).
Another difference is that in the Chinese ruleset, "dead" pieces are really more like a formality when you've considered certain pieces to be unsavable in enemy territory, and you don't want to have to go through the motions of capturing them. Dead pieces are an actual written rule in the Japanese version though, where if some pieces are agreed or demonstrated to be impossible to save, they are automatically dead and will be captured at the end of the game. I guess it's because there are some situations where playing the whole area out would end with the territory holder getting more or fewer points than if it wasn't played out, and they didn't want to make the game take forever with people fighting over every last point within their territories.
Why did black connect their group at the end? didn't that shrink their territory?
That connection was not a point for anybody. If a stone is in ATARI and can be captured it's not a point of territory.
Day 3 of being confused at Go. Why do you put the prisoners back on the board? I thought you get to add them to your score?
Good question. You don't put them back on the board just anywhere.
Technically you want to add them to your territory, but how? If you put them there, your territory will get smaller, not bigger. So it was decided to put them into YOUR OPPONENT'S territory. It becomes smaller, which is equivalent to making your territory bigger. Instead of adding to yourself, subtract from your opponent.
@@GoMagic ohhhhhhh 😯 wait I get it now
great commentary! 7:15 Why did black have to fill the corner in the bottom right? wouldn't it have been blacks territory?
EDIT: saw the answer by you that it's atari, so white coul capture it, but wouldn't it be ko as the position would repeat?
Indeed it would be ko, but why fight the ko? The whole point of ko is that you aim to close it before your opponent does. And you here you have a chance to do that without even starting to fight over it. Just because there are no more moves left to be played.
@@GoMagic Thx for the anser! I'm still confused 😅
1. 7:15 White passesd
2. What would happen if Black would pass aswell?
- Is it a neutral territory? But then why did Black need to fill it in?
- Is it Blacks territory? But then why did Black fill it?
- Can white capture blacks stone in the corner, therefor Black needs to fill it? But it would be ko, so why would the rule be like this?
I thought, black should pass and get that territory, as it is surrounded by black stones. Is this not the case and why?
I think, this is the last rule, I don't really understand: How to know, to *really* know, whose territory the empty spaces in the end belong to. And this is a pretty simple example that would probably answer quite a lot for me.
Probably black had to fill it, because it was neutral territory and filling it was just more clear for scoring. But it's surrounded by black stones and even though one of blacks stones surrounding it is in atari, white can not capture it, because it's ko. So isn't it blacks territory, as white cannot "prove" that it's neutral?
It's easier than what you describe =)) Go is not just played for territory, capturing stones is also involved in this. So after the first pass, your opponent wouldn't pass, that would be counterproductive. Capturing a stone gives you ONE point that counts toward the final score, remember? So your opponent would capture that stone and gain that one extra point. So why give them the opportunity? Be the last to capture and then fill it to prevent the opponent from getting more captured stones/points here.
@@GoMagic Oh no, I still don't understand.
I thought, the "opponent" (or white in this case) is in ko, so he can't capture the stone as that would repeat the position?
Or is it classified as a different position, if it was passed in between?
So in this case: White passes, then if black passes, white can take the stone even though previously being in ko?
If white can't take, because it's still ko, who does the open territory belong to?
Thx again so much!
@@Feds_the_Freds
I think it's similar to seki, in that any pieces or groups that would be taken as either result of the seki don't count as surrounding territory. In the same way, seems that any pieces that could be taken if not prevented by the ko rule don't count as pieces surrounding your territory. I think what he was getting at was that the main reason to compete in a ko area is to capture enemy pieces rather than gain territory, since it likely won't count as territory anyway, and it's good to fill in the space to prevent the opponent from continuing the ko situation.
But in this case, it seems to me that it doesn't make a difference whether he passes to end the game or fills the space and then passes. I'd probably just pass when ending the game though so that you don't give the opponent a chance to notice something that they didn't see when they passed the first time.
Under Chinese rules, black gets the point there whether he fills or passes. Under Japanese rules, black gets no points there whether he fills or passes.
Why exactly does black play the last stone? Could black not just pass and have 8 points in total?
You can only get a point if there are no stones in atari. As long as there is a stone one step away from being captured there, White can capture it with the next move. So, sadly no points there.
At 3.40 I thought you cant place the black there coz it's suicide?
That _would_ be a suicide, but there's an exception for this rule: if you capture your opponent's stones, you can do suicidal moves, because after capturing you'll have at least 1 liberty.
4:22 Did white make a mistake? Playing at 1-3 might be better than 1-2.
Yep, it would be a better move, but in some cases this can lead to losing of an initiative.
What if a player's prisoners outnumber his territory? Are the extra stones just disregarded in scoring?
They will be added to the score of the player who has captured them.
@@GoMagic makes sense, thank you.
in 4:42 black takes 3 stones by placing one black in the middle of 3 whites so: that wouldn't mean black is also captured? could anyone explain this, ty
Black would capture those 3 stones first, which also puts that one black stone in atari. So yes, White would be able to capure it back immediately. But still - Black captures 3 and White only 1 - this is not a good exchange for White, right?
@@GoMagic i thought that black was getting captured at the same time. Now i get it, thanks!
What kind of stones are these?
They seem to be a high quality set of glass stones.
These are Korean glass stones
Hi. Where to buy 9×9 go.
Well, unless you live in Asia, finding Go shops can be a challenge. Our best advice is to try to buy a Go set online, on a marketplace.
Why black put that last piece in after whites first pass? It takes one spot out of territory?
You can only get a point if there are no stones in atari, after which you'd have to fill that point. As long as there is a stone one step away from being captured there, White can capture it with the next move. So, sadly no points there.
At 2:14, how can white go into the space with no liberties?
Is White going into the space with no liberties? Are you sure?
connected stones of the same color share liberties, so it's a legal move
@@sebastianbal1008 ah thanks for that explanation! bless you 🙏
7:15 why does black takes the spot at the ko? Let ist Open ans get a point? 🙈 new player
Because White can still capture that stone otherwise. As long as the stone can be captured, that point will never belong to anybody, right?
W top shape was seki, and Black missed it. Black would have played 2-2 vital point
You know, those players are not 8 dan =)
Why was blacks last move to connect? Doesn't that remove a point from black for no reason? Thanks in advance!
This wasn't a point. If Black doesn't connect, White captures that stone again and where is the point then? This could only be a point for Black (or White) if a stone wasn't in atari.
how so you can play black f2 (ruclips.net/video/etQLHVVASME/видео.html) when all surrounding stones are white and would capture it?
This move is legal because Black captures 2 stones.
is it really fair even on a tiny board like this that white still gets the 6.5 hahaa shouldnt it just be like idk 3.5 or something
I agree. White got completely destroyed yet almost won still? Should be maybe 2.5 points on a 9x9
I totally get your concern but unfortunately it was calculated that a smaller komi will result in Black winning all the time...
At 07:16, after white passes, why doesn't black passes too to end the game? Why black connects, losing that intersection territory? Didn't you lose a point by connecting that intersection? If black had passed, that liberty would be your territory when counting points.
There is a stone in ATARI there. As long as one of your stones is in atari and therefore can be captured any time, how can that intersection be considered a point of territory for anybody. Only when a point on the board becomes inaccessible for your opponent, you can count that as territory. I hope this makes it clear. =)
@@GoMagic thank you for replying. But is it a rule to no end the game while one stone is in atari? Or just good manners? Because to me looks like you just lost a point there. Once the white passed, couldn't you just end the game with that stone in atari AND won that extra point?
@@dantealighieri4009 If you pass to finish the game, your opponent can easily capture that stone. So it doesn't give you extra point.
@@GoMagic but he had already passed first. In this context, if you passed, the game would end, wouldn't?
@@GoMagicI'm also bit confused here. White allready passed. So if black just pass white can't just come back and retake. Cause the game is over. Or can he?
Great! Only music interferes during the game.
We felt that something was needed to fill the gaps, not to let the viewers watch the game in silence.
@@GoMagic Don't worry about it. Silence from the speaker is perfectly filled with the viewer's thoughts about the game. After all, pauses between notes are also part of the music ;-)
Your platform doesn't work! Link is broken :(
I couldn't reproduce the problem. The link works. Please check it again.
@@GoMagic Hey seems to be working now, thanks for checking! Might have been a VPN issue...