I've done nothing but edit video for the past two days, and my brain is fried. Somebody let me know in the comments if I messed up anything bad enough that I need to reupload lol. ERRATA: 1. The Pyro earns 250 *Support* points per giant robot airblast, not regular points. And also 1 Bonus point. According to the wiki, Support Points do not count toward the regular score, so it's the Bonus points that affect The Pyro's regular score. 2. The Wiki also says that resetting the bomb awards both Support and Bonus points, though I have not verified this.
I dont know if its a compiling error or recording error but there seems to be a few times where the frame rate drops (17:09 for example) Note: i am not an FPS detecting robot im only human maybe the fps is fine i can only say what it feels like, also note this might be some mond of client side issue
15:04 Remember to mention that you should target the main pocket target if there is more than 1 medic. Hitting a medic will not hit other medics. Using it in tandem with a crit canteen for consistency is also perfectly well and good as well as just starts your giant killing with crits. On the topic of body upgrades, jump height is also great to apply phlog cancelling without the need to switch to your secondary, although this is really a luxury you should only buy when you have spare cash. On level ground, you only need 1 jump height for normals and 3 for giants. I did not test for minigiants, but i would still run 3. 23:29 Pyro wasn't in the meta because the meta was not figured out. People realised that if the pyro did not die instantly, even without damage upgrades, he had incredible damage along with infinite pierce and crits on demand, making him incredibly strong even if you never switch off your primary.
besides the third degree, i found that the axtinguisher is a pretty decent med picker melee (if only gas counted as a liquid). honestly if gas was only ignite on contact (dealing 40 damage initially instead of the 360 or so damage) and counted as wet, it would synergize extremely well with axtinguisher imo.
Wait, you're telling me the guy who helped me with my taxes makes mvm videos? Cheers to another year's worth of great videos, Mr. Underscore. Merry Smissmas.
Another guide that details what should be common sense to most experienced MvM players, yet most mainstream youtube guides severely lack it. Great as always. The Dragon's Fury is my personal favorite primary - I recognize it's flaws but it's just so satisfying for me to use that I don't care that much. A shotgun actually works decently with it for if you encounter airblast pyros that completely counter you otherwise. 39:43 I got really excited for a second because that Scout has my exact cosmetic loadout. Alas, twas not I. At least someone else believes in the Airdog + Flapjack combo.
To me Gas is only acceptable if one the 2 conditions is true The majority of the Lobby doesn’t care about loadouts as long as they aren’t actively detrimental or using game breaking weapons The player with the Liquid Skill is horrible at MVM In both cases I would accept gas useage. I wouldn’t use gas ever for how overpowered explode on ignite is and how without that Carries it. If someone decides to call me a monke pyro for using pyro I’d ask if it really matters and if not why even ask. It’s just a game don’t build up more salt than the Dead Sea over it
@@cyanideytcuriousseadoggo Dewill already made a video on it, for a low tours gas passer pyro is bad, or pyro in geneal, gas passer doen't make the situation better.
@@PlumEXE that’s good logic. The nuclear lunchbox of the gas passer is really good at clearing waves so it makes more pulls of the Aussie lever per hour so more Aussie gained
I dont know if the introductory explanation gets across to everyone when they have to listen to mumbling for a solid 4 minutes. Could be an easy skip, making the well intended explanation fruitless. Beyond that I have no complaints. Its all explained in an easy to understand fashion and given the time and chance to play Pyro, anyone could learn how to play as Pyro properly. That said, I do think that the main player base of MvM is just loot gambling casuals that wont give a crap whether or not something is bad for the game mode. In an ideal world Valve would have fixed all these broken things years ago but considering they cant even get their paid game mode working properly anymore just shows how little they actually care for MvM. Thank god Potato/Pineapple MvM exists. Even though those have their own downsides, they are still the future of MvM. As for the people saying Pyro is part of the Meta now or the Meta for Pyro wasnt figured out before the Jungle Inferno update...well, most of those people dont even understand what the Meta consists of in reality. Jungle Inferno didnt make Pyro viable, he was viable from the beginning. Its just that the majority of players are abysmal. I'm sure if Spy had an exploding Sapper, that too would become the Meta in their eyes. Anyway, enough of my ramblings. Happy holidays and here's to another "exciting" year of MvM. 🔥
Yeah, I realized that, in an age when many people listen to RUclips videos rather than watch them, I was making a choice by including the extended mumbling gag.
What I like about the tutorial is that you bring up stuff that are instinct to Pyros on Potato and Moonlight. Examples are taking advantage of infinite penetration and hiding behind the tank; and waiting on the Spy to do his thing before attacking. One minor thing you left out is that Pyro hard counters Medbot Shields on custom missions. Speaking of Potato and Moonlight, it's actually common to get carried by Pyros during the events! You don't even need Phlog. I know a content creator who runs Stock, and they frequently do well.
How to play Pyro according to most Pyros in MVM. 1. Use gas passer 2. It explodes 3. Die (a lot) 4. Ignore extinguishing your teammates because gas passer expodes (Unable to use if using Phlog) 5. Ignore all spies swarming your engineer and medic for the gas passer 6. Call for medic if he is dead or not since you ran into a horde of bots that will certain kill you (if your medic doesn't charge into the horde with you complain in chat) 7. Forget to upgrade your flamethrower for the tank since you bought explode and recharge time for gas passer 8. Call for help on the tank 9. Repeat step on ignoring spies and not extinguishing teammates for gas passer 10.Repeat steps in whatever order happens at that time. (Properly sound like a jerk but I seen this too many times in mvm)
@@cewla3348 honestly afterburn is such a non-issue in mvm it's not even relevant since you've pretty much always got a dispenser and you very rarely even come into flamethrower range. the only real source of afterburn is on closer range classes like scout or spy and flare pyros.
Great guide as always mate! Some niche things that I've found with the Detonator is that bullet resistance will protect against self-damage, similar to how blast resistance does for the Soldier-(maybe because the flare is coded as bullet-type damage?)-and also that the blast jump stacks with the jump height upgrade, which I've found to be situationally useful when repositioning. I've gotta say, I'm glad you gave it the spotlight it deserves in the video because honestly I find running gas so boring now in comparison. Anyway, hope you have a happy New Year! Any hints on which class will be next?
Demo or Heavy, and probably Heavy because I have more ambitious ideas for the Demo video, and I probably need to brush up on the class more (I haven't played a lot of Demo lately).
I agree with your take on Gas Passer but I'm still baffled at yoyr hate for refund button, it literally provides more flexibility for the gamemode and allows people to experiment. For example in summer 2024(this summer as I'm writing this) during second mvm event of the summer july, I was playing scout as usual on exp mission I believe, don't remember the name of it but the point is around wave 3 or 4 we encountered insanely big challenge in form of tanks+giants combo, and we couldn't finish it, but then I noticed how fast giants push and... *How little money dropped* and then I go "hmmmmmmmmm I literally never do this but maybe, I can go Spy for giants?" And guess what? I did and we aced it! Well ok we only got A instead of A+ but whatever, we still finished that darn mission! And all thanks to REFUND button, if not for refund, I'd be stuck with low dmg Spy with no knife upgrades for armour penetration and attack speed... We'd have infinitely more infuriating and unfun experience if I was forced to stay scout due to no refunds policy. So I don't get why you hate that feature? You don't seem like toxic "meta" follower and yet, you hate something that keeps toxic meta followers at bay and allows some variety in MvM. Don't you think had Valve removed Refund feature, the meta followers would become MORE toxic? Always demanding you tell them exactly what you upgraded cuz "we can't afford to lose" or demanding that "play soldier, we can't afford to use pyro for all waves, so play soldier optimally for both tank and robot dmg" ? Idk man, refund is the best and I think that's why 99% of potato and moonlight missions never disable it even if they can! It's cuz it keeps toxicity at bay
Superb video, I've played this gamemode for years and only NOW I finally understood WHY looking at corners work (in regards to tank busting). it really helps to know the reason why you do something so that you can adapt if need be (such as having to be on the sides of the tank for whatever reason or on top), I assumed myself it was something relating to damage falloff and lived unsure if the damage varied depending on how inclined I was looking or not. Thanks mate! By the way, played with you once, you might recall(probably not). It was on Australiam christmas, you were a demo and no one in our team bothered to be enginner (me included). We did pretty well regardless, I think I was a soda popper scout.
i like listening to videos while doing my day job of pizza delivery. having the first 4 minutes be borderline incomprehensible was disappointing, especially when i have my own car engine and road noise to deal with
In Vanilla TF2, I’m a Pyro main. In MVM I’m a Sniper and Scout Main. I like doing combos and reflects, which are kind of obsolete in MVM, so it’s interesting that each class plays completely differently in each game mode.
Thanks Underscore, now I might be able to play Pyro on Potato servers competently! Or maybe still not since I can't Det Jump (as a consequence of my general inability to Rocket Jump). Probably my only real contribution might be pointing out that "reverse Pyro combos" (Use Detonator, Scorch Shot or even maybe Volcano Fragment to light enemies on fire, then switch to Dragon's Fury) could make the Dragon's Fury more effective, lighting up a lot of enemies with Detonator could help you keep the consecutive hit bonus going longer. Still probably more effort than it's worth though, but if you're not using Gas then you probably have the Detonator so might as well make use of it! Apparently there is a semi-subclass that Wheezy pointed out of upgrading Flare Guns (mostly the actual Flare Gun and not the others) to higher Reload and Firing speed to have a continuous stream of crit-Flares going. Sounds like it's probably not worth it in most cases but it's cheap enough that you could staple it on top of the usual stuff if the extra option is helpful. Also, Uber Canteens plus Phlog is cool if you can't taunt-cancel and something I've actually tried, but I struggle to make the best use of it.
It is good to had phlog timing, but jumping to giant head to cancel phlog taunt is amazing, so I mostly upgrade my jump height in mid game to help me achieve this
That's understandable. It's the "ghost frequency", which is specifically known to be unsettling. I'm sorry that it bothered you. One of the hardest things about audio mixing is that it's difficult to predict different people's experiences with audio given that they might have dramatically different hardware. The ghost frequency didn't really bother me on speakers or headphones (the real white noise later in the video was worse), and one pair of my headphones didn't even play it properly... it just made clicks.
Are there any guides to how bots aggro on players and who they prioritise? All I know is that Snipers and undisguised Spies get aggro priority and that they ignore disguised spies
I believe it goes medics healing spies > spies > sentry guns > medics > everyone else. There's some quirks like them soft aggroing spies that bump them or sap them which makes them look but not shoot immediately, but otherwise they lock on to the closest, highest priority target and stay locked on until a higher priority target appears or the original target goes behind cover or dies. As far as I know you can basically let the bots lock onto your team as pyro and then come out from behind cover without worrying about them shooting you right away.
What @TheTdw2000 says is pretty close to my understanding (at some point, the details stop mattering for practical purposes), but I will add that Sniper robots seem to target the team MVP, or at least the MVP of the last minute or two. If you seem to be taking a lot of aggro from Sniper bots... check the scoreboard. Also, I'm not sure that Medics technically have high priority. I think that they actually "steal" the priority of the person they're healing. Will have to verity if I ever get around to a Medic tutorial.
Honestly, I'm now wondering if the MvM function of the gas passer was its original intended function for normal play. That would explain why the gas passer is so hard to charge for its weak effect. It probably wasn't an instant kill like in MvM, but just a better aoe damage + ignite than what flare guns can do.
After wracking my brain for like 30 minutes, I have concluded the best way to buff the gas passer would be to let pyro douse and light himself on fire with the gas cloud, granting minicrits and a speed boost at the cost of taking minicrit afterburn at 10hp/s for 96 hp total. Then it would be cool. Kind of like a mini phlog plus the normal effect. @@risa1467
A bloody Smissmas miracle. I agree it's hard to not speak about the Gas Passer when talking about Pyro in MvM. I hope one day the TF2 community will understand the charm of Pyro in MvM. Seeing other MvM channels rise up, I hope yours does to in 2023. Wish you a merry Christmas and a happy new year!
Since you didn't mention it in the video in depth, you can use aggro towards other players that has higher priority to both bodyblock and deal sustain dmg. It is not just spy either, medics that are healing, sentries, or even your heavy could be a good distraction - if abusing corner to ignite your target isn't possible. Where are more in-depth explanations on secondaries tho? So, it is like just no scorch shot in general?
I still fail to understand why Gas gets a bad rap for making the gameplay obsolete when for years Demo has consistently allowed us to skip battles with giants. I do agree that Gas needs retooling in some way, though.
Demo has downtime when placing stickies, needs to know where to place them and hope that one of his teammates don't screw up and blow away/ destroy the stickies due to aggro attraction. Plus demo has always been a powerful class when it comes to stickies. Ever wondered why he's loved by comp?
even tho i find this video interesting as i am a pyro main, i can be a mix of offense and defense and i can still be a pybro to engis and medics plus team, in most maps when they catch fire and their medic is on fire too and im out ranged by fire bow sniper pyros, ill do my job as putting out the flames on them and give them more time to survive, and if ONLY IF the soldier or crit boosted demo or sniper died by small bots or crocket soldiers when trying to kil uber medics, ill use the passer spearingly, but i still do excellent job on tank shredding and boss melting, if im weak, ill run away and heal (if health on kill boss is present) and if close range small bots harrass me while teammates are too distracted or dead during tank waves plus too much support, ill tose the passer to give area denial and keep shredding, giants and small bots can wait, the tanks cannot, hense why tanks are Tier SS along with super scouts as i do watch weezytf2s video about mvm info and i respect him
Amazing guide. I knew for sure it would be. My personal playstyle is buying a lot of move speed and jump height, and 2 hp on kill ofc (I cancel my taunt a lot) which to be very honest for me can work way better than resistances which might be what many ppl buy, I only get resistances wave 4-5 lol (at most 2 points lol), robots can't hit shit lol and tbh I don't even rly die a lot And I hate when ppl say heavy is straight up better than pyro, against single targets sure but if the mission doesn't have a lot of beefy singular bosses I find myself carrying heavies hard as pyro lol (plus rly high tank dmg) and not buying resistances helps with getting high dmg early Oh and phlog is way better than beggar vs crowds lol (just as a sidenote)
Ngl, I really wish we could get the Repressurization Rate upgrade back for the Dragon's Fury, but either tone it down or cap it at 1-2 ticks. I never got to play with it pre-nerf, but it looked like a lot of fun. But alas, it'll only ever be a dream.
Explode on ignite should have a base damage of 50, with three damage upgrade tics that cost 400 each and increase damage by 50 each. Giving a max damage of 150. Still lets you oneshot meds and small bots. But with more dedication.
part of me wants to be "Technically correct, the best kind of correct" you say you cant flare jump with the flare jump, but you can ruclips.net/video/939wmxso1wo/видео.html
Since you did not go into the Termal Thruster in the video (understandably, the detonator is a better option for the phlog in which is your favourite pick), I want to comment more about it. For 300 credits (which is not a lot given that upgrading the pyro's flamethrower is cheap) you get a stun hability that is based on fall damage speed. This stun is similar to the spy's sapper stun, with the exception that the "back" of the robot is wherever it was looking before it got stunned (relevant if you run backburner). This can stun regular robots for a couple of seconds making them easy kills, but it can also fully stun any robots that spy can also stun - that includes giant fist of steel heavies, samurai knights, and most importantly uber medics. If you do not count liquid-skill, the termal thruster is in my opinion the second most reliable way to deal with uber medics (loosing only to the third degree with crit canteens/kritzkrieg), given you can air-strafe and hit the medics in the head with your boots. It can also give a sapper-like slowdown to giants, most relevant to giant scouts, though that is more niche as it requires a lot of skill and planning to even hit a fast moving scout that way, but it's good to mention. It can also slow down sentry busters, but I really don't recommend trying. The thruster also has an annoying all-directional knockback and, if you are unlucky, you might stun and knockback the buster right into the unaware's engineer sentry and explode it. Same for giants, don't use the thruster right behind them as you risk knocking them into your medic's shield or away from the sticky trap. The range of knockback is small, so if you aim to a little further from the giant's back or right into its head it should be fine. I wanted to mention it as the termal thruster is my favourite pick to use the Backburner with. You can stand back away from giant robots initial aggro, jump on their backs when they are distracted by your heavy or other classes, and burn 'em dead before they switch targets to you. It's the most fun I've had with pyro in years, it's a way more dynamic way to play him. Although I recommend not trying if you have a spy on your team, your constant jumping around will kill his will to live, lol.
Thank you for explaining that the Scorch Shot is bugged. When I first used it, it didn’t do any knockback, so it seemed like a decent MVM weapon, and I didn’t understand why it got hate. The next time I used it, I was bouncing giants all over the place. I heard that if you don’t upgrade it, it’s not that bad, but the weapon seems to be very inconsistent in MVM.
The gas passer is the definition of a crutch. The way most people use it you're basically a sniper who can only explosive headshot once every other subwave. Sniper is far better at being a consistent damage dealer, demo is better at burst damage, and beggar's soldier is far better at tank busting. The difference is these playstyles require planning, skill, and game sense to pull off, which will train the player to be overall better at MvM as a whole. A GP pyro will typically only be good at fighting the easiest part of a wave and spend most of the hard parts on the ground waiting for a revive or buying back in. Also I'm pretty sure its damage attribution is bugged. The player who actually ignites the robot gets no credit for his damage, instead all the damage goes to the pyro, including the damage of the shot that sets it off. (At least last time I checked.) Even if it is intentional it further biases the pyro's damage which means the pyro gets no feedback on what his real effect is.
the demoman laying sticky traps doesn't exactly take a ton of skill either, you just need to know where the robots are coming from and press m2 when they appear
@@halt1931 It doesn't take much skill but it takes at least a bit of planning. I don't really like how Demoman plays in MvM but you can't call him a crutch because he requires knowledge of the game to use him properly. Demo can absolutely dominate because a well-laid stickytrap can oneshot giants, but in order to get to that point you have to understand robot behavior AND you need to know which robots spawn when in a wave (so you know where to lay traps and when to use crit canteens). If you don't know what you're doing you won't really be able to take full advantage of Demo's strengths. I don't really like Demo's playstyle but I'd rather have a Demo taking out giants than a gas passer Pyro only focusing on the easiest part of a wave.
@@TheTdw2000 I'd still call him a crutch, the sticky launcher at least - the amount of planning required to be extremely effective amounts to "ask a teammate where the robots drop down this time and get a medic to kritz you", which isn't really any more effort than the pyro has to put in of "find a safe spot with a view of where they spawn and throw a projectile at them"
@@halt1931 To play Demo at a higher level in MvM requires that you basically memorize the waves so you can deploy the exact right amount of stickies in each location in order to oneshot giants. It doesn't take much skill but it's also not something everyone can do and really it's only used by people trying to speedrun MvM. Using Demo for wave clearing is stupid because his main benefit is burst damage, not area damage (which is Sniper's niche).
so pyro's a crutch because pyro can do significant area damage, but sucks at burst damage, so you should pick another class that can do burst damage instead, and demo _isn't_ a crutch because he can do significant burst damage, but sucks at area damage, which makes him not overpowered?
at 25:15 you write "Tip: The Pyro gets 250 points every time it airblasts a giant robot.... for some reason. This has always been the case even back when it was a lot less powerful." 250 points? that cant be right
Ah, good catch. It should be "Support Points" not regular points. I forget offhand how many Support Points you need to earn 1 regular point. I know that Damage is 600 = 1 point. EDIT: WIki says that Support points do not translate to regular points. Instead, airblasting giants or resetting the bomb also awards Bonus points, like throwing a Sandvich.
Thanks for the video and merry christmas ❤️👍 it's always insane to think how much editing, writing and footage collecting takes to make these guides! Also, the manmelter is busted, the firing speed upgrade just doesn't work, so even with crits you'll just have a slow firing flaregun
With 3 jump height upgrades you can jump on top of giant heads and cancel taunt for phlog, it's not really only useful for phlog it helps a lot with dodging projectiles as well
Yeah... I personally loathe Jump Height on any class except Engie or Sniper because of how "floaty" it makes you, but a few people have chimed in that they like it for Pyro, so it'll probably get added to the Errata.
Jump height on pyro is very important lol (that phlog cancel can make huge differences) I get at most 2 jump height tho but 3 can make dodging stuff super easy if there aren't low ceilings
Amazing its like christmas morning! EDIT: after extensive testing the below section about aiming up/sideways doesnt seem to be true against giants One thing imma mention, the "aim up" strat doesnt just apply to tanks if you find yourself at point blank hugging a giants legs and your safe to flame their for a moment dont be afraid to aim your flame thrower such that only the newest flames hit the bot (i did see underscore aim up against a giant but also while crouching which means the flame particles are hitting the giant for longer)
You know, I've been hearing this was the case, but wasn't able to find any information online or replicate it before making the video. I'll have to look into it again. The clips you see are probably me aiming up due to *rumors* that it existed, without knowing how/if it actually worked).
@@UnderscoreGamingChannel actually, i can prove it works against normal bots, because even in pvp pyros damage gets cut almost in half if the enemy is against a wall
That's a well-known bug in the fire particle coding, and it's why "looking down" doesn't work for the Tank Trick. I don't think it has much to do with the size of the hit box.
16:20 I don't think the Axtinguisher is that bad. It's a relatively decent uber med picker when paired with the Flare Gun, since the total damage combines to safely drop them without needing to rely on crits, and you don't incur the sometimes-annoying health-from-healers penalty. That said, the Back Scratcher might still be better due to requiring less setup to drop multiple medics. There's upsides and downsides for both - point is, don't write off the Axtinguisher, I'd say! ~~totally not biased because I own a Spec KS one and I feel obligated to use it almost all the time~~
I personally use the gas passer. Why? It makes the game easier. However, if someone does say they would prefer i didn’t, i would gladly switch. Remember, just because you are enjoying the game doesn’t mean everyone is.
I only use DF with detonator as Pyro in MVM and almost always top in damage, due to how hitting small bots and giants makes numbers go brrr. It can also 2 tap Meds which lets Pyro deal with them on occasion. Its high damage on hit also lets you burst any robot easier, with detonator letting you burst even more. My personal fave. Great video as usual though
i’m new to mvm and ur videos are so useful i don’t think i can thank u enough when i first played Mvm i played engine got bad upgrades and we lost and i got yelled at and everyone quit now thanks 2 ur videos i can a basic idea of almost every class thank u very much i love ur content
how come the upgrade visuals are tiny. shouldn't the thing you're talking about be the focus of the video and only show the applicable gameplay when talking about it in its instance
Yeah... somebody else brought that up, too, but deleted their comment for some reason. Looking at it now, I agree. I'm okay with the fact they're too small to read when they shrink (since you can tell what they are by their position), but they should've been bigger when they first slid onto the screen.
Sure. And in the Sniper video, I acknowledge that it's somewhat OP, even though it's been in the game since basically the beginning. The thing is, though, that The Pyro has the Phlog, which is in itself a borderline-OP weapon. You should NOT be able to equip and fully-upgrade TWO of those at the same time. Two wrongs don't make a right.
@@UnderscoreGamingChannel late reply, but sniper also has excellent tank-busting with the bushwacka, while the phlog doesn't actually have much synergy with the passer due to the passer not charging the phlog and even then, they're still outpaced by a basic demoman laying down 14 crit stickies and simply pressing m2 when someone important walks over them
@@halt1931 Sniper already has decent tankbusting with a stock Sniper Rifle, which has the added benefit of not exposing him to danger like the Bushwacka strat often does. So Bushwacka doesn't have synergy with Sniper Rifle, either. Based on the hypothesis that Explosive Headshots are OP, then a Sniper is almost always better off ignoring the tank unless it's the only thing on the map. I regard the Bushwacka as being closer to the Equalizer than to the Gas Passer. A neat trick with marginal benefits, not a game-changer. The Demo's power is greatly overstated in popular discussion. Yes, when a group of veteran players are making their 100th playthrough of a mission, the class that can heavily exploit the predictability of robot spawns is overpowered. But that's not really a normal way to play a Player vs. Environment video game, is it?
I mean more that the demo seems to be widely praised for laying a crit sticky trap and oneshotting a group of uber medics with his secondary, but when the pyro does it, its suddenly regarded as absurdly OP, ruining the game, and in need of a nerf, as though no other class is capable of low skill high AOE secondary burst damage options this isnt just based on your videos (which I do enjoy), but also other mvm channels - the demo is widely praised for having arguably the best attack (AOE, more damage than a full armour pen backstab, can be detonated from any location safely) in the game by pressing m2, the pyro is hated for having an excellent AOE damage tool by pressing m1 I can respect that sniper at least takes more aim than dem and pyro's AOE oneshots do, but I also can't help but feel like if the explosive headshots upgrade was added in a recent update instead of being a part of the "core" game, people would hate it too - with my limited experience, I don't regard pyro as a particularly effective class in mvm (compared to, say, Heavy) outside of tank busting, and without explosive headshots I imagine sniper would be in a similar "not the worst class to pick but far from the best" boat - good against giants and tanks, terrible against crowds, where the pyro is okay against crowds, poor against a lot of giants, and good against tanks also also, side note, I didn't know the sniper rifle was also a good tank buster, that makes it a worse situation in a way - at least the phlog and passer are two separate weapons the pyro has that specialize in different areas, but with the sniper rifle, it can literally perform every task in the mission without problem @@UnderscoreGamingChannel
It's less that it does bonus damage to buildings and burning targets, and more that it has a damage penalty against non-burning players. ...but yes, it is the best Sentry-busting option in Pyro's primary slot.
3 classes left demoman heavy medic the demoman video going to be a headache as you talk about the 3 different demo playstyles (pipes, stickies, and swords) knowing waves, and what not the heavy should be simple, talking about resistance vs firing speed heavy medic could be a bit of a hassle as well as you talk about the various ways to play medic, shield bash with the quick fix and how it scales well with heavy and pyro, or kritz and ubersaw medics, canteen sharing, mad milk syringes if your scout doesnt have mad milk (or if you dont have a scout) quick revives with spam left click, who to pocket, and the list goes on....
As he said he won't cover any subclasses by now. Also the true way how to play medic can be a lot more broken than the gas so idk if that way will be in video
No swords. Demoknight is a subclass, which I haven't been covering. Stickies and pipes can probably be covered as if they were different weapons in the same slot rather than completely different slots, though. Kind of like how Dragon's Fury and Beggar's Bazooka are very different from other weapons in their slots.
Cause 99% of gas pyros are only good for kill stealing and could be kicked without changing the outcome of the game, also because the gas passer is situational and will only "help" for wave 1 of most missions
They can't. Only a handful of players in the world are able to 2 man some sniper speficic maps(birock for example) in duo with engineer. They still need ammo to stay safe on the rock, and engi to sentry block, destroy tanks. But there are also peoples able to 2 man Manhattan.. With scout+sodlier. Soo now they are overpowered as well? NO! Sniper, scout, soldier, demoman, engineer overpowered only with an extreme amount of knowledge and/or skill behind it. Gas paser needs non of that.
![[TF2] The MvM Sniper Guide: Scoped-in Circuits](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pNUzmkXkHpI/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Art of Phlog Canceling [TF2 Exploit]](/img/1.gif)
I've done nothing but edit video for the past two days, and my brain is fried. Somebody let me know in the comments if I messed up anything bad enough that I need to reupload lol.
ERRATA:
1. The Pyro earns 250 *Support* points per giant robot airblast, not regular points. And also 1 Bonus point. According to the wiki, Support Points do not count toward the regular score, so it's the Bonus points that affect The Pyro's regular score.
2. The Wiki also says that resetting the bomb awards both Support and Bonus points, though I have not verified this.
The priority graphics for the upgrade section are *really* small and nestled in the top left corner!
I dont know if its a compiling error or recording error but there seems to be a few times where the frame rate drops (17:09 for example)
Note: i am not an FPS detecting robot im only human maybe the fps is fine i can only say what it feels like, also note this might be some mond of client side issue
15:04 Remember to mention that you should target the main pocket target if there is more than 1 medic. Hitting a medic will not hit other medics. Using it in tandem with a crit canteen for consistency is also perfectly well and good as well as just starts your giant killing with crits.
On the topic of body upgrades, jump height is also great to apply phlog cancelling without the need to switch to your secondary, although this is really a luxury you should only buy when you have spare cash. On level ground, you only need 1 jump height for normals and 3 for giants. I did not test for minigiants, but i would still run 3.
23:29 Pyro wasn't in the meta because the meta was not figured out. People realised that if the pyro did not die instantly, even without damage upgrades, he had incredible damage along with infinite pierce and crits on demand, making him incredibly strong even if you never switch off your primary.
Upgrade graph is tiny. Can't see a crap.
besides the third degree, i found that the axtinguisher is a pretty decent med picker melee (if only gas counted as a liquid). honestly if gas was only ignite on contact (dealing 40 damage initially instead of the 360 or so damage) and counted as wet, it would synergize extremely well with axtinguisher imo.
It’s so neat that underscore gaming actually preformed the TF2 voice actor technique of reading out a real script but then just covering his mouth.
You're the only person I've ever seen who calls MMMPH _"uhhhh~!"_ instead.
Pyro should definetley have more weapons also Id like them all to have some sort of a warpaint even if its just one
Wait, you're telling me the guy who helped me with my taxes makes mvm videos?
Cheers to another year's worth of great videos, Mr. Underscore. Merry Smissmas.
This guy makes tax videos too?!
Another guide that details what should be common sense to most experienced MvM players, yet most mainstream youtube guides severely lack it. Great as always. The Dragon's Fury is my personal favorite primary - I recognize it's flaws but it's just so satisfying for me to use that I don't care that much. A shotgun actually works decently with it for if you encounter airblast pyros that completely counter you otherwise.
39:43 I got really excited for a second because that Scout has my exact cosmetic loadout. Alas, twas not I. At least someone else believes in the Airdog + Flapjack combo.
Joho jbjojb
Awesome video, I like how you addressed the Gas Passer at start lol, completely agree
To me Gas is only acceptable if one the 2 conditions is true
The majority of the Lobby doesn’t care about loadouts as long as they aren’t actively detrimental or using game breaking weapons
The player with the Liquid Skill is horrible at MVM
In both cases I would accept gas useage.
I wouldn’t use gas ever
for how overpowered explode on ignite is and how without that Carries it.
If someone decides to call me a monke pyro for using pyro I’d ask if it really matters and if not why even ask. It’s just a game don’t build up more salt than the Dead Sea over it
@@cyanideytcuriousseadoggo Dewill already made a video on it, for a low tours gas passer pyro is bad, or pyro in geneal, gas passer doen't make the situation better.
@@cyanideytcuriousseadoggo Why wouldnt you use the most optimal method of winning though if the goal is getting aussies
@@PlumEXE that’s good logic. The nuclear lunchbox of the gas passer is really good at clearing waves so it makes more pulls of the Aussie lever per hour so more Aussie gained
I dont know if the introductory explanation gets across to everyone when they have to listen to mumbling for a solid 4 minutes.
Could be an easy skip, making the well intended explanation fruitless.
Beyond that I have no complaints. Its all explained in an easy to understand fashion and given the time and chance to play Pyro, anyone could learn how to play as Pyro properly.
That said, I do think that the main player base of MvM is just loot gambling casuals that wont give a crap whether or not something is bad for the game mode.
In an ideal world Valve would have fixed all these broken things years ago but considering they cant even get their paid game mode working properly anymore just shows how little they actually care for MvM.
Thank god Potato/Pineapple MvM exists. Even though those have their own downsides, they are still the future of MvM.
As for the people saying Pyro is part of the Meta now or the Meta for Pyro wasnt figured out before the Jungle Inferno update...well, most of those people dont even understand what the Meta consists of in reality.
Jungle Inferno didnt make Pyro viable, he was viable from the beginning. Its just that the majority of players are abysmal.
I'm sure if Spy had an exploding Sapper, that too would become the Meta in their eyes.
Anyway, enough of my ramblings. Happy holidays and here's to another "exciting" year of MvM. 🔥
Yeah, I realized that, in an age when many people listen to RUclips videos rather than watch them, I was making a choice by including the extended mumbling gag.
What I like about the tutorial is that you bring up stuff that are instinct to Pyros on Potato and Moonlight. Examples are taking advantage of infinite penetration and hiding behind the tank; and waiting on the Spy to do his thing before attacking. One minor thing you left out is that Pyro hard counters Medbot Shields on custom missions.
Speaking of Potato and Moonlight, it's actually common to get carried by Pyros during the events! You don't even need Phlog. I know a content creator who runs Stock, and they frequently do well.
I'm pretty sure the fact that fire goes through Projectile Shields is squeezed into a Tip Box somewhere.
How to play Pyro according to most Pyros in MVM.
1. Use gas passer
2. It explodes
3. Die (a lot)
4. Ignore extinguishing your teammates because gas passer expodes (Unable to use if using Phlog)
5. Ignore all spies swarming your engineer and medic for the gas passer
6. Call for medic if he is dead or not since you ran into a horde of bots that will certain kill you (if your medic doesn't charge into the horde with you complain in chat)
7. Forget to upgrade your flamethrower for the tank since you bought explode and recharge time for gas passer
8. Call for help on the tank
9. Repeat step on ignoring spies and not extinguishing teammates for gas passer
10.Repeat steps in whatever order happens at that time.
(Properly sound like a jerk but I seen this too many times in mvm)
That's just what happens when you have a weapon so powerful even a bad player can use it: a lot of bad players will use it.
to be fair i play boot camp and the medic deals with afterburn... i'm the medic
@@cewla3348 honestly afterburn is such a non-issue in mvm it's not even relevant since you've pretty much always got a dispenser and you very rarely even come into flamethrower range. the only real source of afterburn is on closer range classes like scout or spy and flare pyros.
xD im super duper new, but im doing my best not to fall into these cataogories if i can help it
As the real Pyro, this Pyro impression is amazing.
I AM the real pyro, You are a spy
Finally, a new guide from you
Great guide as always mate! Some niche things that I've found with the Detonator is that bullet resistance will protect against self-damage, similar to how blast resistance does for the Soldier-(maybe because the flare is coded as bullet-type damage?)-and also that the blast jump stacks with the jump height upgrade, which I've found to be situationally useful when repositioning.
I've gotta say, I'm glad you gave it the spotlight it deserves in the video because honestly I find running gas so boring now in comparison.
Anyway, hope you have a happy New Year! Any hints on which class will be next?
Demo or Heavy, and probably Heavy because I have more ambitious ideas for the Demo video, and I probably need to brush up on the class more (I haven't played a lot of Demo lately).
As a demo and heavy main in MVM, few things bring me more anger and pain than a Pyro who presses M2.
GPS pyro?
Or SS spamming pyro?
I agree with your take on Gas Passer but I'm still baffled at yoyr hate for refund button, it literally provides more flexibility for the gamemode and allows people to experiment.
For example in summer 2024(this summer as I'm writing this) during second mvm event of the summer july, I was playing scout as usual on exp mission I believe, don't remember the name of it but the point is around wave 3 or 4 we encountered insanely big challenge in form of tanks+giants combo, and we couldn't finish it, but then I noticed how fast giants push and... *How little money dropped* and then I go "hmmmmmmmmm I literally never do this but maybe, I can go Spy for giants?" And guess what? I did and we aced it! Well ok we only got A instead of A+ but whatever, we still finished that darn mission! And all thanks to REFUND button, if not for refund, I'd be stuck with low dmg Spy with no knife upgrades for armour penetration and attack speed...
We'd have infinitely more infuriating and unfun experience if I was forced to stay scout due to no refunds policy.
So I don't get why you hate that feature? You don't seem like toxic "meta" follower and yet, you hate something that keeps toxic meta followers at bay and allows some variety in MvM. Don't you think had Valve removed Refund feature, the meta followers would become MORE toxic? Always demanding you tell them exactly what you upgraded cuz "we can't afford to lose" or demanding that "play soldier, we can't afford to use pyro for all waves, so play soldier optimally for both tank and robot dmg" ?
Idk man, refund is the best and I think that's why 99% of potato and moonlight missions never disable it even if they can! It's cuz it keeps toxicity at bay
Superb video, I've played this gamemode for years and only NOW I finally understood WHY looking at corners work (in regards to tank busting). it really helps to know the reason why you do something so that you can adapt if need be (such as having to be on the sides of the tank for whatever reason or on top), I assumed myself it was something relating to damage falloff and lived unsure if the damage varied depending on how inclined I was looking or not. Thanks mate!
By the way, played with you once, you might recall(probably not). It was on Australiam christmas, you were a demo and no one in our team bothered to be enginner (me included). We did pretty well regardless, I think I was a soda popper scout.
What a nice Christmas gift seeing a new underscore guide.
i like listening to videos while doing my day job of pizza delivery. having the first 4 minutes be borderline incomprehensible was disappointing, especially when i have my own car engine and road noise to deal with
In Vanilla TF2, I’m a Pyro main. In MVM I’m a Sniper and Scout Main. I like doing combos and reflects, which are kind of obsolete in MVM, so it’s interesting that each class plays completely differently in each game mode.
Thanks Underscore, now I might be able to play Pyro on Potato servers competently!
Or maybe still not since I can't Det Jump (as a consequence of my general inability to Rocket Jump).
Probably my only real contribution might be pointing out that "reverse Pyro combos" (Use Detonator, Scorch Shot or even maybe Volcano Fragment to light enemies on fire, then switch to Dragon's Fury) could make the Dragon's Fury more effective, lighting up a lot of enemies with Detonator could help you keep the consecutive hit bonus going longer. Still probably more effort than it's worth though, but if you're not using Gas then you probably have the Detonator so might as well make use of it!
Apparently there is a semi-subclass that Wheezy pointed out of upgrading Flare Guns (mostly the actual Flare Gun and not the others) to higher Reload and Firing speed to have a continuous stream of crit-Flares going. Sounds like it's probably not worth it in most cases but it's cheap enough that you could staple it on top of the usual stuff if the extra option is helpful.
Also, Uber Canteens plus Phlog is cool if you can't taunt-cancel and something I've actually tried, but I struggle to make the best use of it.
It is good to had phlog timing, but jumping to giant head to cancel phlog taunt is amazing, so I mostly upgrade my jump height in mid game to help me achieve this
I kinda don’t like your intro white noise when pyro appears, you could make it a bit quiet and period shorter
That's understandable. It's the "ghost frequency", which is specifically known to be unsettling. I'm sorry that it bothered you.
One of the hardest things about audio mixing is that it's difficult to predict different people's experiences with audio given that they might have dramatically different hardware. The ghost frequency didn't really bother me on speakers or headphones (the real white noise later in the video was worse), and one pair of my headphones didn't even play it properly... it just made clicks.
its crazy you spent 4 mins doing that.
you should include clickbaits so more people watch this underrated channel
Are there any guides to how bots aggro on players and who they prioritise? All I know is that Snipers and undisguised Spies get aggro priority and that they ignore disguised spies
I believe it goes medics healing spies > spies > sentry guns > medics > everyone else. There's some quirks like them soft aggroing spies that bump them or sap them which makes them look but not shoot immediately, but otherwise they lock on to the closest, highest priority target and stay locked on until a higher priority target appears or the original target goes behind cover or dies.
As far as I know you can basically let the bots lock onto your team as pyro and then come out from behind cover without worrying about them shooting you right away.
@@TheTdw2000 thanks
What @TheTdw2000 says is pretty close to my understanding (at some point, the details stop mattering for practical purposes), but I will add that Sniper robots seem to target the team MVP, or at least the MVP of the last minute or two. If you seem to be taking a lot of aggro from Sniper bots... check the scoreboard.
Also, I'm not sure that Medics technically have high priority. I think that they actually "steal" the priority of the person they're healing. Will have to verity if I ever get around to a Medic tutorial.
Honestly, I'm now wondering if the MvM function of the gas passer was its original intended function for normal play. That would explain why the gas passer is so hard to charge for its weak effect. It probably wasn't an instant kill like in MvM, but just a better aoe damage + ignite than what flare guns can do.
After wracking my brain for like 30 minutes, I have concluded the best way to buff the gas passer would be to let pyro douse and light himself on fire with the gas cloud, granting minicrits and a speed boost at the cost of taking minicrit afterburn at 10hp/s for 96 hp total.
Then it would be cool. Kind of like a mini phlog plus the normal effect.
@@risa1467
people get pissy when pyro gets good weapons. (Dragon's Fury, Flare Gun, Detonator, etc)
Finally I can engage in a moderately sadistic session of pyromania the COOL way, poggers video, and Merry Christmas!
A bloody Smissmas miracle. I agree it's hard to not speak about the Gas Passer when talking about Pyro in MvM.
I hope one day the TF2 community will understand the charm of Pyro in MvM. Seeing other MvM channels rise up, I hope yours does to in 2023.
Wish you a merry Christmas and a happy new year!
Since you didn't mention it in the video in depth, you can use aggro towards other players that has higher priority to both bodyblock and deal sustain dmg.
It is not just spy either, medics that are healing, sentries, or even your heavy could be a good distraction - if abusing corner to ignite your target isn't possible.
Where are more in-depth explanations on secondaries tho? So, it is like just no scorch shot in general?
I still fail to understand why Gas gets a bad rap for making the gameplay obsolete when for years Demo has consistently allowed us to skip battles with giants.
I do agree that Gas needs retooling in some way, though.
Demo has downtime when placing stickies, needs to know where to place them and hope that one of his teammates don't screw up and blow away/ destroy the stickies due to aggro attraction.
Plus demo has always been a powerful class when it comes to stickies. Ever wondered why he's loved by comp?
even tho i find this video interesting as i am a pyro main, i can be a mix of offense and defense and i can still be a pybro to engis and medics plus team, in most maps when they catch fire and their medic is on fire too and im out ranged by fire bow sniper pyros, ill do my job as putting out the flames on them and give them more time to survive, and if ONLY IF the soldier or crit boosted demo or sniper died by small bots or crocket soldiers when trying to kil uber medics, ill use the passer spearingly, but i still do excellent job on tank shredding and boss melting, if im weak, ill run away and heal (if health on kill boss is present) and if close range small bots harrass me while teammates are too distracted or dead during tank waves plus too much support, ill tose the passer to give area denial and keep shredding, giants and small bots can wait, the tanks cannot, hense why tanks are Tier SS along with super scouts as i do watch weezytf2s video about mvm info and i respect him
Amazing guide. I knew for sure it would be.
My personal playstyle is buying a lot of move speed and jump height, and 2 hp on kill ofc (I cancel my taunt a lot) which to be very honest for me can work way better than resistances which might be what many ppl buy, I only get resistances wave 4-5 lol (at most 2 points lol), robots can't hit shit lol and tbh I don't even rly die a lot
And I hate when ppl say heavy is straight up better than pyro, against single targets sure but if the mission doesn't have a lot of beefy singular bosses I find myself carrying heavies hard as pyro lol (plus rly high tank dmg) and not buying resistances helps with getting high dmg early
Oh and phlog is way better than beggar vs crowds lol (just as a sidenote)
Ngl, I really wish we could get the Repressurization Rate upgrade back for the Dragon's Fury, but either tone it down or cap it at 1-2 ticks. I never got to play with it pre-nerf, but it looked like a lot of fun.
But alas, it'll only ever be a dream.
Explode on ignite should have a base damage of 50, with three damage upgrade tics that cost 400 each and increase damage by 50 each. Giving a max damage of 150. Still lets you oneshot meds and small bots. But with more dedication.
part of me wants to be "Technically correct, the best kind of correct"
you say you cant flare jump with the flare jump, but you can ruclips.net/video/939wmxso1wo/видео.html
Since you did not go into the Termal Thruster in the video (understandably, the detonator is a better option for the phlog in which is your favourite pick), I want to comment more about it.
For 300 credits (which is not a lot given that upgrading the pyro's flamethrower is cheap) you get a stun hability that is based on fall damage speed. This stun is similar to the spy's sapper stun, with the exception that the "back" of the robot is wherever it was looking before it got stunned (relevant if you run backburner).
This can stun regular robots for a couple of seconds making them easy kills, but it can also fully stun any robots that spy can also stun - that includes giant fist of steel heavies, samurai knights, and most importantly uber medics. If you do not count liquid-skill, the termal thruster is in my opinion the second most reliable way to deal with uber medics (loosing only to the third degree with crit canteens/kritzkrieg), given you can air-strafe and hit the medics in the head with your boots.
It can also give a sapper-like slowdown to giants, most relevant to giant scouts, though that is more niche as it requires a lot of skill and planning to even hit a fast moving scout that way, but it's good to mention.
It can also slow down sentry busters, but I really don't recommend trying. The thruster also has an annoying all-directional knockback and, if you are unlucky, you might stun and knockback the buster right into the unaware's engineer sentry and explode it. Same for giants, don't use the thruster right behind them as you risk knocking them into your medic's shield or away from the sticky trap. The range of knockback is small, so if you aim to a little further from the giant's back or right into its head it should be fine.
I wanted to mention it as the termal thruster is my favourite pick to use the Backburner with. You can stand back away from giant robots initial aggro, jump on their backs when they are distracted by your heavy or other classes, and burn 'em dead before they switch targets to you. It's the most fun I've had with pyro in years, it's a way more dynamic way to play him. Although I recommend not trying if you have a spy on your team, your constant jumping around will kill his will to live, lol.
i love the random jabs against business majors i see random engineer majors throw at them (rightfully so)
You can actually sound like pyro with no effort as seen here all you have to go is talk with your hand in front of your mouth
Gas passer is fine, There is so much op shit in MVM. If the Gas passer should get nerfed there would be a lot on the chopping board
Thank you for explaining that the Scorch Shot is bugged. When I first used it, it didn’t do any knockback, so it seemed like a decent MVM weapon, and I didn’t understand why it got hate. The next time I used it, I was bouncing giants all over the place. I heard that if you don’t upgrade it, it’s not that bad, but the weapon seems to be very inconsistent in MVM.
Finally, I get a real Christmas present xD good stuff here!
The gas passer is the definition of a crutch. The way most people use it you're basically a sniper who can only explosive headshot once every other subwave. Sniper is far better at being a consistent damage dealer, demo is better at burst damage, and beggar's soldier is far better at tank busting. The difference is these playstyles require planning, skill, and game sense to pull off, which will train the player to be overall better at MvM as a whole. A GP pyro will typically only be good at fighting the easiest part of a wave and spend most of the hard parts on the ground waiting for a revive or buying back in.
Also I'm pretty sure its damage attribution is bugged. The player who actually ignites the robot gets no credit for his damage, instead all the damage goes to the pyro, including the damage of the shot that sets it off. (At least last time I checked.) Even if it is intentional it further biases the pyro's damage which means the pyro gets no feedback on what his real effect is.
the demoman laying sticky traps doesn't exactly take a ton of skill either, you just need to know where the robots are coming from and press m2 when they appear
@@halt1931 It doesn't take much skill but it takes at least a bit of planning. I don't really like how Demoman plays in MvM but you can't call him a crutch because he requires knowledge of the game to use him properly. Demo can absolutely dominate because a well-laid stickytrap can oneshot giants, but in order to get to that point you have to understand robot behavior AND you need to know which robots spawn when in a wave (so you know where to lay traps and when to use crit canteens). If you don't know what you're doing you won't really be able to take full advantage of Demo's strengths. I don't really like Demo's playstyle but I'd rather have a Demo taking out giants than a gas passer Pyro only focusing on the easiest part of a wave.
@@TheTdw2000 I'd still call him a crutch, the sticky launcher at least - the amount of planning required to be extremely effective amounts to "ask a teammate where the robots drop down this time and get a medic to kritz you", which isn't really any more effort than the pyro has to put in of "find a safe spot with a view of where they spawn and throw a projectile at them"
@@halt1931 To play Demo at a higher level in MvM requires that you basically memorize the waves so you can deploy the exact right amount of stickies in each location in order to oneshot giants. It doesn't take much skill but it's also not something everyone can do and really it's only used by people trying to speedrun MvM. Using Demo for wave clearing is stupid because his main benefit is burst damage, not area damage (which is Sniper's niche).
so pyro's a crutch because pyro can do significant area damage, but sucks at burst damage, so you should pick another class that can do burst damage instead, and demo _isn't_ a crutch because he can do significant burst damage, but sucks at area damage, which makes him not overpowered?
at 25:15 you write
"Tip:
The Pyro gets 250 points every time it airblasts a giant robot.... for some reason.
This has always been the case even back when it was a lot less powerful."
250 points? that cant be right
Ah, good catch. It should be "Support Points" not regular points. I forget offhand how many Support Points you need to earn 1 regular point. I know that Damage is 600 = 1 point.
EDIT: WIki says that Support points do not translate to regular points. Instead, airblasting giants or resetting the bomb also awards Bonus points, like throwing a Sandvich.
This kinda sounds like Donald duck
04:02 says “128,400 damage in 4 minutes lol” in case anyone gets hung up on that like me
32:51 Tank Damage Comparison
Thanks for the video and merry christmas ❤️👍 it's always insane to think how much editing, writing and footage collecting takes to make these guides!
Also, the manmelter is busted, the firing speed upgrade just doesn't work, so even with crits you'll just have a slow firing flaregun
With 3 jump height upgrades you can jump on top of giant heads and cancel taunt for phlog, it's not really only useful for phlog it helps a lot with dodging projectiles as well
Yeah... I personally loathe Jump Height on any class except Engie or Sniper because of how "floaty" it makes you, but a few people have chimed in that they like it for Pyro, so it'll probably get added to the Errata.
Jump height on pyro is very important lol (that phlog cancel can make huge differences) I get at most 2 jump height tho but 3 can make dodging stuff super easy if there aren't low ceilings
Well, it's been added to the errata.
Finally a new part of the only good MvM guide on RUclips!
Amazing its like christmas morning!
EDIT: after extensive testing the below section about aiming up/sideways doesnt seem to be true against giants
One thing imma mention, the "aim up" strat doesnt just apply to tanks if you find yourself at point blank hugging a giants legs and your safe to flame their for a moment dont be afraid to aim your flame thrower such that only the newest flames hit the bot (i did see underscore aim up against a giant but also while crouching which means the flame particles are hitting the giant for longer)
You know, I've been hearing this was the case, but wasn't able to find any information online or replicate it before making the video. I'll have to look into it again.
The clips you see are probably me aiming up due to *rumors* that it existed, without knowing how/if it actually worked).
@@UnderscoreGamingChannel it applies to everything its just the small bots die really quickly so its not really worth it
@@UnderscoreGamingChannel actually, i can prove it works against normal bots, because even in pvp pyros damage gets cut almost in half if the enemy is against a wall
That's a well-known bug in the fire particle coding, and it's why "looking down" doesn't work for the Tank Trick. I don't think it has much to do with the size of the hit box.
I still can't replicate this. I always just get the highest DPS just aiming straight forward at the giant.
f2ps trying to say that they don't have phlog on a bootcamp mission: MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMPPPPPHHHHHHH
valve treats their f2p playerbase with such kindness & respect!
A Smissmass miracle; great guide as always, Underscore.
This is amazing. Thank you for these tutorials 💞
16:20 I don't think the Axtinguisher is that bad. It's a relatively decent uber med picker when paired with the Flare Gun, since the total damage combines to safely drop them without needing to rely on crits, and you don't incur the sometimes-annoying health-from-healers penalty.
That said, the Back Scratcher might still be better due to requiring less setup to drop multiple medics. There's upsides and downsides for both - point is, don't write off the Axtinguisher, I'd say!
~~totally not biased because I own a Spec KS one and I feel obligated to use it almost all the time~~
I personally use the gas passer. Why? It makes the game easier.
However, if someone does say they would prefer i didn’t, i would gladly switch.
Remember, just because you are enjoying the game doesn’t mean everyone is.
I only use DF with detonator as Pyro in MVM and almost always top in damage, due to how hitting small bots and giants makes numbers go brrr. It can also 2 tap Meds which lets Pyro deal with them on occasion. Its high damage on hit also lets you burst any robot easier, with detonator letting you burst even more. My personal fave.
Great video as usual though
i’m new to mvm and ur videos are so useful i don’t think i can thank u enough when i first played Mvm i played engine got bad upgrades and we lost and i got yelled at and everyone quit now thanks 2 ur videos i can a basic idea of almost every class
thank u very much i love ur content
listening to that hitsound throughout the whole video was an experience LMAO nice vid!
22:25 this man definitely studied physics (if he did engineering he woul have shat on civils)
8:52
LOL.
how come the upgrade visuals are tiny. shouldn't the thing you're talking about be the focus of the video and only show the applicable gameplay when talking about it in its instance
Yeah... somebody else brought that up, too, but deleted their comment for some reason. Looking at it now, I agree. I'm okay with the fact they're too small to read when they shrink (since you can tell what they are by their position), but they should've been bigger when they first slid onto the screen.
tbf tho pretty much everything you listed as wrong with the gas passer also apply to things like explosive headshots, especially on the heatmaker
Sure. And in the Sniper video, I acknowledge that it's somewhat OP, even though it's been in the game since basically the beginning.
The thing is, though, that The Pyro has the Phlog, which is in itself a borderline-OP weapon. You should NOT be able to equip and fully-upgrade TWO of those at the same time. Two wrongs don't make a right.
@@UnderscoreGamingChannel late reply, but sniper also has excellent tank-busting with the bushwacka, while the phlog doesn't actually have much synergy with the passer due to the passer not charging the phlog
and even then, they're still outpaced by a basic demoman laying down 14 crit stickies and simply pressing m2 when someone important walks over them
@@halt1931 Sniper already has decent tankbusting with a stock Sniper Rifle, which has the added benefit of not exposing him to danger like the Bushwacka strat often does. So Bushwacka doesn't have synergy with Sniper Rifle, either. Based on the hypothesis that Explosive Headshots are OP, then a Sniper is almost always better off ignoring the tank unless it's the only thing on the map. I regard the Bushwacka as being closer to the Equalizer than to the Gas Passer. A neat trick with marginal benefits, not a game-changer.
The Demo's power is greatly overstated in popular discussion. Yes, when a group of veteran players are making their 100th playthrough of a mission, the class that can heavily exploit the predictability of robot spawns is overpowered. But that's not really a normal way to play a Player vs. Environment video game, is it?
I mean more that the demo seems to be widely praised for laying a crit sticky trap and oneshotting a group of uber medics with his secondary, but when the pyro does it, its suddenly regarded as absurdly OP, ruining the game, and in need of a nerf, as though no other class is capable of low skill high AOE secondary burst damage options
this isnt just based on your videos (which I do enjoy), but also other mvm channels - the demo is widely praised for having arguably the best attack (AOE, more damage than a full armour pen backstab, can be detonated from any location safely) in the game by pressing m2, the pyro is hated for having an excellent AOE damage tool by pressing m1
I can respect that sniper at least takes more aim than dem and pyro's AOE oneshots do, but I also can't help but feel like if the explosive headshots upgrade was added in a recent update instead of being a part of the "core" game, people would hate it too - with my limited experience, I don't regard pyro as a particularly effective class in mvm (compared to, say, Heavy) outside of tank busting, and without explosive headshots I imagine sniper would be in a similar "not the worst class to pick but far from the best" boat - good against giants and tanks, terrible against crowds, where the pyro is okay against crowds, poor against a lot of giants, and good against tanks
also also, side note, I didn't know the sniper rifle was also a good tank buster, that makes it a worse situation in a way - at least the phlog and passer are two separate weapons the pyro has that specialize in different areas, but with the sniper rifle, it can literally perform every task in the mission without problem @@UnderscoreGamingChannel
@@halt1931 I've played bigrock with expert snipers with EOH.
Pain
but i like reflecting a wall of rockets back at the robots
The dragon’s fury does the full bonus damage to buildings so i guess it’s better at sentry busting than other flamethrowers.
It's less that it does bonus damage to buildings and burning targets, and more that it has a damage penalty against non-burning players.
...but yes, it is the best Sentry-busting option in Pyro's primary slot.
3 classes left
demoman
heavy
medic
the demoman video going to be a headache as you talk about the 3 different demo playstyles (pipes, stickies, and swords) knowing waves, and what not
the heavy should be simple, talking about resistance vs firing speed heavy
medic could be a bit of a hassle as well as you talk about the various ways to play medic, shield bash with the quick fix and how it scales well with heavy and pyro, or kritz and ubersaw medics, canteen sharing, mad milk syringes if your scout doesnt have mad milk (or if you dont have a scout) quick revives with spam left click, who to pocket, and the list goes on....
As he said he won't cover any subclasses by now. Also the true way how to play medic can be a lot more broken than the gas so idk if that way will be in video
No swords. Demoknight is a subclass, which I haven't been covering.
Stickies and pipes can probably be covered as if they were different weapons in the same slot rather than completely different slots, though. Kind of like how Dragon's Fury and Beggar's Bazooka are very different from other weapons in their slots.
what am i doing with my life
Thank you for making it
I am sure this is Warowl
The return of the king
Look mom! I'm famous
why have a detailed helpful guide on playing a class in mvm when you can throw gas
why play mvm when you can gamble at casino
Cause 99% of gas pyros are only good for kill stealing and could be kicked without changing the outcome of the game, also because the gas passer is situational and will only "help" for wave 1 of most missions
only made it 5 minutes in, this video is terrible
Snipers with explosive headshots that can solo win on some maps - i sleep
Pyro doing same with explosive gas - real shit
They can't. Only a handful of players in the world are able to 2 man some sniper speficic maps(birock for example) in duo with engineer. They still need ammo to stay safe on the rock, and engi to sentry block, destroy tanks. But there are also peoples able to 2 man Manhattan.. With scout+sodlier. Soo now they are overpowered as well? NO! Sniper, scout, soldier, demoman, engineer overpowered only with an extreme amount of knowledge and/or skill behind it. Gas paser needs non of that.
Seeing this video in this sub feed was like Christmas morning…
oh right.
skip intro if you don't want to go deaf on headphones