Did the Apostles Die as Martyrs? SeanMcDowell.org
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- Опубликовано: 21 фев 2016
- One of the most common arguments for the resurrection is the claim that the apostles of Jesus died as martyrs for the faith. Is this a good argument? What does the historical record show? Sean briefly answers these questions from his extensive study of their fates.
I like your honesty in admitting that not all the stories about martyrs are true. I think that actually helps the argument, honesty always does.
Thank for the honesty
Great video buddy! Just a quick question. Where can I brush up on knowledge explaining why one should chose Christianity over other religions e.g Buddhism, Islam etc..( I feel this is a highly underrated element within apologetics)
Any recommended books/videos?
Hello, I just saw your inquiry and I hope you don't mind me giving you a recommendation. You need to read or watch some videos from Ravi Zacharias. They have really helped me. I would love to help you however I can.
@@carogame appreciate it buddy! I've seen a lot of Ravi, and miss the guy terribly..but he's with the lord now... So it's bittersweet
Check out the updated EVIDENCE THAT DEMANDS A VERDICT and some of my recent RUclips interviews on the resurrection.
Hello Sean, a Biola grad here… how then did Peter, Paul, both James’, Andrew and Peter die then? Thanks
Amazing job, love it.
This isn't a strong argument. Lots of people have been will and have died for beliefs that were not true. Take the Heaven’s Gate cult members. Almost 3 times the number of apostles killed themselves for their belief. So whose belief is stronger?
There is a difference because the apostles were actually around Jesus, they know whether or not He was who He said He was. Suicide can be an act of desperation, take it from someone who has wanted to end his life that way😅, not the same as yielding your body to torture as Peter did when he was crucified upside down
@@Hubtones1 there is no evidence that Peter was crucified, much less upside down.
@@TheEnterthedreaming you missed the point. These men claimed to have seen, touched, and even ate with Jesus. not a belief. Whether or not they died doesn't matter. The fact that they were persecuted, homeless, tortured, etc (this is historical knowledge) does matter. They saw what happened to Jesus, and they knew they'd most likely be killed. But they still did, and with no motive or gain at that. No one risks death and goes through persecution, homelessness, etc. for what they KNOW to be a lie, and with no gain, as well. That adds to their claim.
@@gthompsonbjj "No one risks death and goes through persecution, homelessness, etc. for what they KNOW to be a lie, and with no gain, as well."
You miss the point. Going through all of that doesn't validate the belief nor does it add to the claim. There are as many Muslims that have died for their belief as any other religion. I'm betting you don't think it adds to their claims.
"The fact that they were persecuted, homeless, tortured, etc (this is historical knowledge) does matter."
No, it doesn't. Many, many people have been persecuted, homeless, and tortured for beliefs directly opposite of Christianity. It doesn't validate their beliefs either.
Lots of people are going to jail, lost their jobs and even their law licenses, who believe the 2020 election was stolen. Doesn't mean it was.
A belief in something and being willing to die for it doesn't prove the belief. It's not evidence.
@@TheEnterthedreaming it is actually very good evidence. Those people you mentioned? They weren't the originators of the claim. The originators went through all of the suffering and persecution with no motive and no gain to do so, so it's incredibly illogical, and quite frankly, nonsensical to think they were lying. No one dies for something they know to be a lie, and that's supported by psychology. Not to mention all of the hostile accounts that attest to Jesus and verify (unironically) everything the gospels say.
Hi Sean, I'm a really big fan of you and your videos, hope your channel gets more and more views and subscribers.
I'm from Brazil and really wanted to attend to the M.A. in Christian Apologetics from Biola, but the cost seems to be too high. Is there any way I could get a partial discount at this with some apologetics foundation or other thing?
+Helton Duarte Hi Helton. We would love to have you. Yes, there are some scholarships available. Email me through my site (seanmcdowell.org) and I will get you connected to the right person at our department...
It is a good argument because we know of several Apostles or similarly famous disciples that dief for their faith. (James son of Zebedee, James brother of the Lord, Peter, Paul, Stephen) even if we cannot be 100% certain for all of them.
Andrew was also reportedly in Kiev and Scotland, and Thomas was supposedly in India and China. There are a lot of conflicting stories, and I wouldn't say it is a lock that either were crucified. The evidence seems a little thin.
Sean can you recommend a book arguing this topic- I have found it to be a compelling argument for Christ. If not, you should consider writing one- as I would think there would be demand. Good vid and thanks.
Check out McDowell's thesis (digital.library.sbts.edu/bitstream/handle/10392/4857/McDowell_sbts_0207D_10221.pdf) or book (books.google.com.au/books?id=dIm1CwAAQBAJ).
How it differs from any other cult in our days that their followers believes enough in something that they willing to die or commit a suicide, the important case here is that the Jews of that time that were fully familiar with Hebrew scriptures were not convinced at all as they knew how the messiah was prophesied and it was defently not Jesus
Isaiah 53 proves Jesus is the messiah. Jews rejected Jesus because they were expecting power, brute force not meekness and sacrifice. And they were offended that Jesus came to die for their sins since people like to theres nothing wrong with their immoral behavior. They were like "focus on other people's problems, not our own"
Great! One of the main reasons I'm a christian.
i need this so i can prove the bible to my friend i
Very sharp !!
Amen!!!
Hey, there were tons of martyrs for Muhammad. They were all willing to die for their belief some books say so. Must be true. There were probably martyrs for Zeus and Ra and Vishnu.
You tottaly miss the point. It's not the willingness to die that sets them apart but the Reason. You see, their confession was that they saw the risen Jesus. If that was not true, they could simply say so and go on with clean conscious. But they didn't! They preferred death - this is a super strong argument for the ressurection.
@@OrenTube70 That would be the same argument for Muhammad's followers who went to fight in battles for him while he was alive. "If that was not true, they could simply say so and go on with clean conscious. But they didn't! They preferred death - this is a super strong argument for Islam". There are tons of people who said Allah split the moon and they name themselves in the first person.
@@gabrielteo3636 I’m not even Christian rn but you’re still missing the point. These people died claiming they saw a resurrected Jesus (supernatural event). Someone seeing Muhammad isn’t proof Muhammad was right, they still would be dying for faith. Someone seeing Jesus alive after his crucifixion IS proof Jesus was right and so they would be dying, not on faith, but for something they actually witnessed. No liar would go to their grave for something they knew was a lie.
@@andrewaguas3672 They saw the miracles that Allah did for Muhammad. They saw him cure people, the moon was split, he rode a flying donkey and probably some other miracles. It is the same argument. They died in battles after seeing the miracles.
As a matter of fact, the only person to say in first person they saw the risen Christ was Paul the mass murderer and that was still only a vision. None of the others said they saw the risen Christ in 1 st person narrative.
For Muhammad they name themselves.
Mind you, I think this is all just bullshit legends...
@@gabrielteo3636that are just miracles, someone rising from the dead as he said, is other thing, the apostles saw every kind of miracle and still didnt believe till the reaurrection, still there are more arguments that prove it, and no, legends does not evolve in 2 years and the early creeds of Christianity are just few years after his resurrection, so it isnt a legend, check on the empty tomb
Extra Biblical evidence...quotes the Bible.
From being martyred to being martyred for holding the belief in a risen Jesus there is a huge gasp. What we know about the death of Peter, for instance ,is that he was killed during Nero's persecution, Nero killed Christians for supposedly having burnt Rome down, not for believing in the resurrection..
Furthermore, you mention people like Paul and Steven when they didn't even meet Jesus, not to mention having seen the resurrected Jesus.
What are those plural, early and trustable sources that you are talking about?
Actually, you have no evidence that they were killed for their belief in the resurrection, nor do you have evidence that they were ever given a chance to recant their belief.
you missed the point. These men claimed to have seen, touched, and even ate with Jesus. not a belief. Whether or not they died doesn't matter. The fact that they were persecuted, homeless, tortured, etc (this is historical knowledge) does matter. They saw what happened to Jesus, and they knew they'd most likely be killed. But they still did, and with no motive or gain at that. No one risks death and goes through persecution, homelessness, etc. for what they KNOW to be a lie, and with no gain, as well. That adds to their claim. Plus, with the amount of people who hated the Jesus movement, they would have spread the word that the apostles were lying. It was crumbling their empire. That would've been crucial if they wanted to end it.
@@gthompsonbjj It could all be a ridiculous story. You have no proof its real history.
@@MrJasonworkman really? So, the gospels being written as contemporary accounts don't count? Josephus, Thallus, Tacitus, Phlegon, among many others don't exist? Just saying a whole bunch of nothing, eh?
@@MrJasonworkman plus, the Bible has verified his historical accuracy on countless occasions. It hasn't really ever failed in that sense.
@@gthompsonbjj thats correct, they dont count because they could be lies. And those 4 people you mention could also be liars. All you have is stories that can be lies. And the hidtorical accuracy of the bible means nothing, just like a historical fiction book is still fiction. You believe things too easily, and expect others to believe in the supernatural based on unprovable stories and "historical accuracies". Shame on you for leading people into darkness.
So, at best we have maybe 6 or 7 apostles who died 'as martyrs'?
The Mormon church had dozens of martyrs in their early days. Does this imply that their teachings are true? Of course not. Being willing to die for your faith in no way suggests that this faith is true.
Another strong example of this was the Jonestown cult, which had a clear, indisputable HUNDREDS of martyrs for their faith. And yet, this is not seen by Christians as evidence that Jim Jones was the Son of God. Why not?
It's the argument that anyone might die for what they believe to be true. But no one would die for what they know is false. The disciples would have clearly known if Jesus did not resurrect since they were eyewitnesses. Hope this helped.
Conner Domaleski People will die for their beliefs. However, that doesn't mean their beliefs are true. Muslim's resorting to jihad being one example.
People dying for their beliefs does not prove that that belief is true - correct. BUT, it does show that they really believed what they died for. We have to ask: "Why would they really believe that Jesus rose from the dead?" What happened to merit that unshakeable belief?
Jack That seems reasonable. However we are assuming anything of the sort ever occurred. It was customary for Romans to leave those who had been crucified hanging, even in a post-mortum state. This was done for a couple reasons. It was believed that pain could be felt after death. They left the deceased suspended so birds, bugs and animals would scavenge their rotting corpses. The second reason they left dead bodies hanging was to serve as a warning for the living.
It was not customary for Romans to permit a proper burial. Their records don't seem to provide one instance in which a proper burial took place. So I find the claim that Jesus was placed inside a tomb highly suspect.
I also find it strange that there are no documented eyewitness testimonials. You'd think somebody would've asked all 500 to disclose their names, place of residence and what they had witnessed. Similar to what a homicide investigator would do to solve the crime. However Jesus wasn't just murdered; his physical body supposedly ascended. So due to the supernatural claim I'd expect even more documented testimonies from the 500 eyewitnesses.
These issues should be addressed first before leaping to the resurrection conclusion.
Actually it doesn't. Here's why: seanmcdowell.org/blog/was-joseph-smith-a-martyr
No evidence the apostles existed to die in the first place (just like Jesus).
Well looky here, another person in denial.
Jews seek a sign, Gentiles seek wisdom... I will pray for your unbelief that you repent and come to Christ.