I just discovered these videos and I'm hooked. There's more good advanced mixing technique per capita than you can find just about anywhere else. Bravo!
It's not only about the sound mixing, but also that there is some surprisingly good music out there, way better than the crap that pop music gives. I often find myself listening to the music being demonstrated instead of watching the video.
immediately thought the same! How often one hears that the eningineer couldn't control too loud hihats or cymbals. The solution an instance of Pro MB or any other Multiband compressor and build yourself a hihat gate.
0:30 Ok so signals below the threshold are being effected....but what is triggering their attack and release if the expansion is already being affected by a threshold below the signal peaks? Am I making sense or am I lost because Im comparing this to a gate(like so many other teachers do and thus confuse the heck out of me)? Should I not think in terms of a signal "starting" the expansion but rather think of the expansion as already being turned on the moment I set the threshold anywhere below the peaks? I ask because even when trying to think in this frame of mind, I still have issues getting expanders to make sense when so many vsts seem to do the exact opposite of what others do and explain.
From what I can glean, this functions identically to Pro-G and similar gates. When the input signal falls below the threshold, it is attenuated according to the ratio and release.
@Ben Thanks. I saw my old comment and laughed. I get it now. I just seriously didnt realize what expanders did because I confused them all with my confused relationship with upward expansion(which to this day I dont understand but downward expansion makes perfect sense...its just like a gate but with lighter more controllable settings). I have a pretty good clue what upward expansion is but i really dont care to look into it ever lol....will never use it ever especially if it does what i think it does(ruin mixes bringing up the room between peaks lol....what an awkward sound....I take that back...might go good for horror music).
Sir I have a question. After using expander on the kick and bass, do we need to sidechain with the downward compression for a solid low end. Thank you.
@2:24 can someone help me understand this part? "Pressing 'Audition' just gives us the original signal again, but downmixed to mono, because the channels are stereo linked." I've replayed this a few times, and I can't make sense of why we'd hear the audition downmixed to mono if it's a "stereo" linked signal we're processing? I've seen Dan's mid-side/stereo/LCR videos, and every time I think I have my head wrapped around the concept, something like this comes along and makes me doubt my understanding (as well as mixing choices) in stereo/mono processing.
I understand the EQ can make some loss of energy, so the expander can work better in trimming the low-end. But still don't understand when to use the expander or compressor in trimming the low-end. In my opinion, If the sustains of the kick and bass(boominess) are problematic; use the expander. If the notes(hits) of the kick and bass are fighting each other; use the compressor... am I right?
I agree that in general this whole series about Pro-MB tells us when some of those techniques might be useful but does not go enough into when a technique is preferred over another useful technique. I would appreciate more videos on the topic. However to answer your specific question, my understanding is that expansion lets you control both the kick and the bass in a consistent manner, as opposed to carving out a large space for a boomy kick in the bass when using sidechain compression. There is no right or wrong solution - it's ultimately an artistic decision that is probably dependent on the genre you're mixing.
There's downward and upward compression and downward and upward expansion. Compression decreases the dynamic range of a signal, expansion increases the range. Downward Compression When people refer to compression, they almost are always referring downward compression in the sense that once a signal increases above a set threshold its rate of increase is constrained at the rate of the set ratio. A second process known as makeup gain is usually applied to raise the entire sound while keeping the constraint in place. Upward Compression. Once a signal decreases below a set threshold its rate of decrease is constrained to keep the sound from dropping as much as it would if left alone. One use is to keep sustains for a longer period in not letting them die out as quickly as they would if left alone. Downward Expansion Once a signal decreases below a set threshold its rate is increased - e.g. a sound decreasing will disappear sooner than if left alone, often referred to as gating. Upward Expansion Once a signal increases above a set threshold its rate is increased - e.g. a sound increasing in volume becomes louder at a faster rate than if left alone.
My brain just farted again watching this 7 years later......isnt multiband downward expansion the same as dynamic EQ if the band youre affecting is 100% below the threshold? If so, then when its not 100% below the threshold, wouldnt it be better to market such a technique within multiband downward expansion as an advanced form of dynamic EQ(so much that you'd add this ability to all dynamic EQs & treat them as twins aka the same pepsi vs coke aka the same affect but different names not unlike different plugins do the same things but slightly differently)?
Great info. However, I feel that the threshhold setting, the visual display, the scale value on the right does not appear to be in synch and creating confusion. A video with exact corelation between numbers, the scales & what the visual display shows would help to really understand this plugin, much better. At this point it is not fully clear and is extremely confusing from what is displayed, the meter reading , the spectrum display and the knob readings.. I am looking for buying these, but want to make sire, it is clear..
+overbe Nope, i for sure am the one who disliked this video and I did it on purpose. This was a terrible explanation of the universal "expander" explanation. This guy is good at showing people how cool he is a playing with the knobs of fab gear with a hard to understand explanation of what hes doing. I cant name how many times I had to go "....???wha???....oh so hes just ABCD-ing the mix...well why didnt he just say that instead of explaining it as ZYXW-ing the mix? Go figure...this guy is confusing....cool software though!"
overbe Youre right....Im just frustrated. lol. BTW I just found out the difference between all the terms from Mixing With Mike (Michael White) on RUclips. To copy and paste his answer: "Compression decreases dynamic range Expansion Increases Dynamic range Upward adds Gain Downward decreases gain. Downward Compression and Upward expansion work with signals above threshold Upward compression and Downward expansion work with signals below threshold." I realized that all this time Ive been misinformed into thinking I was using an expander when actually using upward compression(a very tricky and near useless tool). Everytime then when having expander properly explained, I couldnt consolidate that information with my personal experience with the my expander(which doubles as an upward compressor).
Hey Dan! Where’s the Upward Expansion video you promised us 7 Years Ago??? We’ve been patiently waiting, through a global pandemic And an attempted fascist takeover for you to complete our dynamic education, and well we’re not getting any younger.
Every time I watch one of these videos, I realise just how much I still have to learn.
That's what I felt also!
Everytime i realise that i'm dumb
been doing this for practically 2 decades. trust me, you never ever stop learning.
Hey Dan, you still owe us an Upward Expansion video. Please. I'd love to see your take on it.
true
please!!
fookin. scammed.
This kind of tutorials is by far the best on the tube :D
this tutorial has proven invaluable for helping out with acoustic drum bleed with this plugin, nothing compares to it!
I just discovered these videos and I'm hooked. There's more good advanced mixing technique per capita than you can find just about anywhere else. Bravo!
Dan Worrall, Exceptional work. No one makes plugin videos like you. Thanks FabFilter!
Fabfilter always reveals creative paths for some "new" techniques of sound design!
These videos couldn't be any better. Thank you for the effort!
fabfilter So much great info in these vids! I'm gonna need 3 days of constant replays to get it all down ;) Thanks!
This is perfect marketing. Thanks for making these videos!
Been waiting 7 years for the upward expansion video... ;P
same here
Holy shit! For someone new to mixing techniques this is really complicated.
for someone who's been mixing for many many years, this is really complicated.
@@variancewithin That was 6 years ago, I kind of get it now. :)
En este video Dan está mas Zen que de costumbre, increíble como siempre!
It's not only about the sound mixing, but also that there is some surprisingly good music out there, way better than the crap that pop music gives.
I often find myself listening to the music being demonstrated instead of watching the video.
where is the upward expansion video?
OP will surely deliver. Let's just wait 💀
Upward expansion is already covered in the Pro G video
Another great tutorial Dan.
"That's all I've got time for in this video" - every time I hear Dan Worrall say that, something inside of me screams "NO!!"
this series of tutorials kills me every time
We've been waiting 5 years for the Upward Expansion video....
well 7 years here
Life saver, been looking for an example of this technique.
Thank you so much! What about upward expansion? :)
where is the video for upward expansion?
I'm looking for the Upward Expansion video -- and it seems to be gone? Any ideas?
Great tutorial thank you, @7mins what would be the difference between this and the Pro Q EQ set to sidechain?
cymbals bleed on shells' close mics? what's that?
this is a really amazing way to kill them cymbal bleed with appropriate settings.
immediately thought the same! How often one hears that the eningineer couldn't control too loud hihats or cymbals. The solution an instance of Pro MB or any other Multiband compressor and build yourself a hihat gate.
0:30 Ok so signals below the threshold are being effected....but what is triggering their attack and release if the expansion is already being affected by a threshold below the signal peaks? Am I making sense or am I lost because Im comparing this to a gate(like so many other teachers do and thus confuse the heck out of me)?
Should I not think in terms of a signal "starting" the expansion but rather think of the expansion as already being turned on the moment I set the threshold anywhere below the peaks? I ask because even when trying to think in this frame of mind, I still have issues getting expanders to make sense when so many vsts seem to do the exact opposite of what others do and explain.
From what I can glean, this functions identically to Pro-G and similar gates. When the input signal falls below the threshold, it is attenuated according to the ratio and release.
@Ben
Thanks. I saw my old comment and laughed. I get it now. I just seriously didnt realize what expanders did because I confused them all with my confused relationship with upward expansion(which to this day I dont understand but downward expansion makes perfect sense...its just like a gate but with lighter more controllable settings).
I have a pretty good clue what upward expansion is but i really dont care to look into it ever lol....will never use it ever especially if it does what i think it does(ruin mixes bringing up the room between peaks lol....what an awkward sound....I take that back...might go good for horror music).
So so good once again!
Sir I have a question. After using expander on the kick and bass, do we need to sidechain with the downward compression for a solid low end. Thank you.
@2:24 can someone help me understand this part?
"Pressing 'Audition' just gives us the original signal again, but downmixed to mono, because the channels are stereo linked."
I've replayed this a few times, and I can't make sense of why we'd hear the audition downmixed to mono if it's a "stereo" linked signal we're processing?
I've seen Dan's mid-side/stereo/LCR videos, and every time I think I have my head wrapped around the concept, something like this comes along and makes me doubt my understanding (as well as mixing choices) in stereo/mono processing.
Upward expansion still coming?
thate what i thought
I understand the EQ can make some loss of energy, so the expander can work better in trimming the low-end. But still don't understand when to use the expander or compressor in trimming the low-end. In my opinion, If the sustains of the kick and bass(boominess) are problematic; use the expander. If the notes(hits) of the kick and bass are fighting each other; use the compressor... am I right?
I agree that in general this whole series about Pro-MB tells us when some of those techniques might be useful but does not go enough into when a technique is preferred over another useful technique. I would appreciate more videos on the topic. However to answer your specific question, my understanding is that expansion lets you control both the kick and the bass in a consistent manner, as opposed to carving out a large space for a boomy kick in the bass when using sidechain compression. There is no right or wrong solution - it's ultimately an artistic decision that is probably dependent on the genre you're mixing.
Great Video!
fabfilter is literally a free Mix/Master course on yt, and still they have so few views
I can't seem to find the Upward Expansion video by fabfilter. Is it out yet? Any help is much appreciated!
Pro-MB has upward expansion. Employ the Expand button while raising the range above 0.
Masterpiece!
such great tutorials :)
Amazing voice
Brilliant.
my gf claimed dan worral's voice was hectic. HOW IS THIS EVEN POSSIBLE??
10:06 what is upward expansion?
There's downward and upward compression and downward and upward expansion. Compression decreases the dynamic range of a signal, expansion increases the range.
Downward Compression
When people refer to compression, they almost are always referring downward compression in the sense that once a signal increases above a set threshold its rate of increase is constrained at the rate of the set ratio. A second process known as makeup gain is usually applied to raise the entire sound while keeping the constraint in place.
Upward Compression.
Once a signal decreases below a set threshold its rate of decrease is constrained to keep the sound from dropping as much as it would if left alone. One use is to keep sustains for a longer period in not letting them die out as quickly as they would if left alone.
Downward Expansion
Once a signal decreases below a set threshold its rate is increased - e.g. a sound decreasing will disappear sooner than if left alone, often referred to as gating.
Upward Expansion
Once a signal increases above a set threshold its rate is increased - e.g. a sound increasing in volume becomes louder at a faster rate than if left alone.
Fabulous
How to not use sidechain
Can you explain?
My brain just farted again watching this 7 years later......isnt multiband downward expansion the same as dynamic EQ if the band youre affecting is 100% below the threshold? If so, then when its not 100% below the threshold, wouldnt it be better to market such a technique within multiband downward expansion as an advanced form of dynamic EQ(so much that you'd add this ability to all dynamic EQs & treat them as twins aka the same pepsi vs coke aka the same affect but different names not unlike different plugins do the same things but slightly differently)?
oh my god...oh my god.....
🤯
Great info. However, I feel that the threshhold setting, the visual display, the scale value on the right does not appear to be in synch and creating confusion. A video with exact corelation between numbers, the scales & what the visual display shows would help to really understand this plugin, much better.
At this point it is not fully clear and is extremely confusing from what is displayed, the meter reading , the spectrum display and the knob readings..
I am looking for buying these, but want to make sire, it is clear..
somebody missed the 'like' button on their tablet
+overbe Nope, i for sure am the one who disliked this video and I did it on purpose. This was a terrible explanation of the universal "expander" explanation. This guy is good at showing people how cool he is a playing with the knobs of fab gear with a hard to understand explanation of what hes doing. I cant name how many times I had to go "....???wha???....oh so hes just ABCD-ing the mix...well why didnt he just say that instead of explaining it as ZYXW-ing the mix? Go figure...this guy is confusing....cool software though!"
QuabmasM
Thanks for explanation. Although i wouldn't put dislike myself just for that. His all videos are very good.
overbe
Youre right....Im just frustrated. lol. BTW I just found out the difference between all the terms from Mixing With Mike (Michael White) on RUclips. To copy and paste his answer:
"Compression decreases dynamic range
Expansion Increases Dynamic range
Upward adds Gain
Downward decreases gain.
Downward Compression and Upward expansion work with signals above threshold
Upward compression and Downward expansion work with signals below threshold."
I realized that all this time Ive been misinformed into thinking I was using an expander when actually using upward compression(a very tricky and near useless tool). Everytime then when having expander properly explained, I couldnt consolidate that information with my personal experience with the my expander(which doubles as an upward compressor).
happens :) the Internet is full of sht.
i thought i knew about compression...
Hey Dan! Where’s the Upward Expansion video you promised us 7 Years Ago???
We’ve been patiently waiting, through a global pandemic And an attempted fascist takeover for you to complete our dynamic education, and well we’re not getting any younger.
where is the upwards expansion video?