Excellent video (as always). I distinctly remember (eons ago) my harmony professor announcing (early in the semester) that doubling major thirds was verboten; but neither he (nor anyone else) took the time to explain the reasoning nor provide instructive examples as to why it was such a sin. Having sung many pieces prior to that time that included (nay, featured) double major thirds, I was more than a tad puzzled by this edict. Thank you for taking the few minutes necessary to explain and illustrate the concept.
I found two doubled thirds in Bachs Do Major Prélude, but it doesn't sound bad at all. Reading the comments helps understand further. An excellent video.
Avoiding doubling the "root" of a VII chord, given that that is the leading note = 3rd of the dominant, is probably a good idea too. Doubling of the (diminished) fifth of the same chord, as an equally active note (see bar 5 of your example), is probably also worth avoiding. I once sang a piece which contained a dominant chord with both of those notes doubled, and I have never heard anything quite so blatant in all my life!
Wonderful video, thank you for making it. My theory teacher, a trombone player, taught us that a doubled majot 3rd was intrinsically out of tune. Due to the harmonic series, having a doubled 3rd reenforces harmonics that rub because they are half steps away from chord tones. This is especially true when the 3rd is in the bass. C major voiced E C E G will have a significant amount of G# and B overtones that rub against G and C. An interesting take, but I can't find fault with it.
See I have played many hymn tunes from playing in a brass band so know many hymn tunes and this has definitely got that influence. Can definitely hear your experience of playing Organ in a church. I actually quite like that melody and harmony.
Don't forget that these rules came from writing holy choir music. Making a choir double the maj third can sound awful....most choirs are made up of Joe public, not professional singers. Obviously a tuned instrument has no problem doubling the 3rd. 4 part harmony for choir must be written with the layman performer in mind. Another great lesson!
Another main reason for avoiding major thirds is that the chance of doubeling a leading tone increases. Especially when there are many secondary dominants.
That’s kind. Keep working at it. We have many resources in our courses at www.mmcourses.co.uk that will help you. You could start with the keyword harmony course.
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Excellent video (as always). I distinctly remember (eons ago) my harmony professor announcing (early in the semester) that doubling major thirds was verboten; but neither he (nor anyone else) took the time to explain the reasoning nor provide instructive examples as to why it was such a sin. Having sung many pieces prior to that time that included (nay, featured) double major thirds, I was more than a tad puzzled by this edict. Thank you for taking the few minutes necessary to explain and illustrate the concept.
A pleasure. I agree that the double major issue can be a moot point
I found two doubled thirds in Bachs Do Major Prélude, but it doesn't sound bad at all. Reading the comments helps understand further. An excellent video.
Bach frequently does it often to preserve scale runs
Avoiding doubling the "root" of a VII chord, given that that is the leading note = 3rd of the dominant, is probably a good idea too. Doubling of the (diminished) fifth of the same chord, as an equally active note (see bar 5 of your example), is probably also worth avoiding. I once sang a piece which contained a dominant chord with both of those notes doubled, and I have never heard anything quite so blatant in all my life!
Absolutely
Wonderful video, thank you for making it.
My theory teacher, a trombone player, taught us that a doubled majot 3rd was intrinsically out of tune. Due to the harmonic series, having a doubled 3rd reenforces harmonics that rub because they are half steps away from chord tones. This is especially true when the 3rd is in the bass. C major voiced E C E G will have a significant amount of G# and B overtones that rub against G and C.
An interesting take, but I can't find fault with it.
There’s certainly truth in that.
See I have played many hymn tunes from playing in a brass band so know many hymn tunes and this has definitely got that influence. Can definitely hear your experience of playing Organ in a church. I actually quite like that melody and harmony.
😀
Brilliant communication, as always.
You’re most kind
I did not know that rule!!! I'll try to spot double major thirds in my compositions and avoid them in the future! Thanks!
A pleasure.
Great explanation. I'll come back to this one later.
Excellent. Enjoy!
I was taught specific rules as to when one can double the third (major or minor 3rd) or the fifth, in four part harmony.
It’s interesting how theorists put more or less emphasis on those rules. It’s a more flexible issue than consecutives, for example.
Once you pointed it out, it surprised me how "clunky" a double major third sounds. I previously hadn't paid that much attention.
😀
Don't forget that these rules came from writing holy choir music.
Making a choir double the maj third can sound awful....most choirs are made up of Joe public, not professional singers.
Obviously a tuned instrument has no problem doubling the 3rd.
4 part harmony for choir must be written with the layman performer in mind.
Another great lesson!
😀
are the double major 3rds “worse” if they are in the outer voices or does it not matter?
Generally that’s true because they’re more exposed.
Another main reason for avoiding major thirds is that the chance of doubeling a leading tone increases. Especially when there are many secondary dominants.
Absolutely
❤
😀
Great to see you Gareth,how can I be skilled composer ,and organist
That’s kind. Keep working at it. We have many resources in our courses at www.mmcourses.co.uk that will help you. You could start with the keyword harmony course.