I can’t speak for every composition student; but when I took composition at university (40+ years ago), my professor OVER EMPHASIZED the concept and practice of writing parts with contrary motion. Consequently, most of the students (in my class) produced four part harmony that looked exactly like your first example. Provided they had not violated any of the cardinal sins (parallel 5ths or octaves, doubling the third, etc), they would receive high (if not top) marks for their submissions. Because I had been singing in choirs for a dozen years by then, my submissions always had parts with reasonably singable lines. As a result , cardinal sin errors occasionally crept into my submissions. That still happens every once in a while ( but far less frequently than it did in the beginning). Your courses are the reason that I’m doing so much better at it. Thanks so much!
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A pleasure. Much more at www.mmcourses.co.uk including details of our online courses and of our exciting Maestros programme. If you value this channel and would like to help us continue to share and develop the content please consider supporting us as a level 1 Maestro by clicking here ruclips.net/channel/UC8yI8P7Zi3yYTsypera-IQgjoin Alternatively you can express your support for the channel by clicking on the Super Thanks button beneath any of our videos. Thank you.
When I write choral pieces, I often try singing each part to see where my voice wants to go. If the line moves where I instinctively want to sing it, then other singers will probably find it more natural to sing. I've never enjoyed singing pieces that jump all over the place. BTW, a bit off-topic, but when you were talking about moving from note to note, I thought of chess and the dangers of moving too far afield early in the game. It's often smarter to stay closer to home, where you have other pieces to support you.
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I quite liked the sound of the series of 3rds in the alto in the first version, particularly given the the resulting opportunity to fill them in with passing notes 😊 My only quibble with the improved version is that, from beat 3 to 4 in bar 1, the altos and tenors move by leap to a dissonance (tritone), which isn't ideal. Doubling the 5th of the chord (D) on beat 3 would make the alto E on beat 4 slightly less perilous, since they would then move by step. The tenors' D-Bb-A is such a common gesture that they would probably be strong on it regardless.
To my ear, the problem with low close intervals between the tenor and bass lines (with a big gap to alto and soprano) is that it produces dissonant harmonics. Of course there could be reasons to want this as an accentuation, but it usually sounds 'muddy'.
A pleasure. Much more at www.mmcourses.co.uk including details of our online courses and of our exciting Maestros programme. If you value this channel and would like to help us continue to share and develop the content please consider supporting us as a level 1 Maestro by clicking here ruclips.net/channel/UC8yI8P7Zi3yYTsypera-IQgjoin Alternatively you can express your support for the channel by clicking on the Super Thanks button beneath any of our videos. Thank you.
Thanks a lot. Very useful as always. But isn't the parallel movement in the soprano/alto voices considered "to be avoided" or "boring"? I think you mentioned this a few videos ago.
Parallel movement between S/A often happens but we need to try to avoid parallel 5ths and 8ves. Parallel movement between top and bottom parts is something that we need to be more careful with.
When I was taught music harmony in the past , I was instructed to avoid parallel thirds and parallel fifths because they don't fall within the rules of harmony.Is this the exception in the seond example ?
Convincing arguments regarding the usage of common notes. On the other hand, using to much common notes may degrade the inner voices to filler material, loosing their function as an independence voice, I wonder.
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I can’t speak for every composition student; but when I took composition at university (40+ years ago), my professor OVER EMPHASIZED the concept and practice of writing parts with contrary motion. Consequently, most of the students (in my class) produced four part harmony that looked exactly like your first example. Provided they had not violated any of the cardinal sins (parallel 5ths or octaves, doubling the third, etc), they would receive high (if not top) marks for their submissions. Because I had been singing in choirs for a dozen years by then, my submissions always had parts with reasonably singable lines. As a result , cardinal sin errors occasionally crept into my submissions. That still happens every once in a while ( but far less frequently than it did in the beginning). Your courses are the reason that I’m doing so much better at it. Thanks so much!
You’re too kind Carl. It’s interesting looking back at how one was taught and how that can be put in context with the passage of time.
Great refresher! I always try to make sure that my voice parts are as singable and natural as possible.
Excellent
Gareth is a superb teacher.
That’s most kind. Much more at www.mmcourses.co.uk including details of our online courses and of our exciting Maestros programme. If you value this channel and would like to help us continue to share and develop the content please consider supporting us as a level 1 Maestro by clicking here ruclips.net/channel/UC8yI8P7Zi3yYTsypera-IQgjoin Alternatively you can express your support for the channel by clicking on the Super Thanks button beneath any of our videos. Thank you.
Thanks for sharing your thought process! As a chorister, I know which version I'd prefer to sing :)
Indeed!
Thank you for your brilliant (as usual) communication skills.
A pleasure. Much more at www.mmcourses.co.uk including details of our online courses and of our exciting Maestros programme. If you value this channel and would like to help us continue to share and develop the content please consider supporting us as a level 1 Maestro by clicking here ruclips.net/channel/UC8yI8P7Zi3yYTsypera-IQgjoin Alternatively you can express your support for the channel by clicking on the Super Thanks button beneath any of our videos. Thank you.
I really appreciate your videos - so educational and helpful(even though I often don‘t get it🤪). Thank you very much! 🥰
A pleasure
When I write choral pieces, I often try singing each part to see where my voice wants to go. If the line moves where I instinctively want to sing it, then other singers will probably find it more natural to sing. I've never enjoyed singing pieces that jump all over the place. BTW, a bit off-topic, but when you were talking about moving from note to note, I thought of chess and the dangers of moving too far afield early in the game. It's often smarter to stay closer to home, where you have other pieces to support you.
Good analogy
Good thinking.
😀
Ur are great teacher 😉 thank you sir
A pleasure. Much more at www.mmcourses.co.uk including details of our online courses and of our exciting Maestros programme. If you value this channel and would like to help us continue to share and develop the content please consider supporting us as a level 1 Maestro by clicking here ruclips.net/channel/UC8yI8P7Zi3yYTsypera-IQgjoin Alternatively you can express your support for the channel by clicking on the Super Thanks button beneath any of our videos. Thank you.
I quite liked the sound of the series of 3rds in the alto in the first version, particularly given the the resulting opportunity to fill them in with passing notes 😊 My only quibble with the improved version is that, from beat 3 to 4 in bar 1, the altos and tenors move by leap to a dissonance (tritone), which isn't ideal. Doubling the 5th of the chord (D) on beat 3 would make the alto E on beat 4 slightly less perilous, since they would then move by step. The tenors' D-Bb-A is such a common gesture that they would probably be strong on it regardless.
It’s great to explore all the possibilities.
To my ear, the problem with low close intervals between the tenor and bass lines (with a big gap to alto and soprano) is that it produces dissonant harmonics. Of course there could be reasons to want this as an accentuation, but it usually sounds 'muddy'.
It certainly makes for muddy textures.
Young man I love your videos my fellow Zimbabwe brothers support your channel thanks
A pleasure. Much more at www.mmcourses.co.uk including details of our online courses and of our exciting Maestros programme. If you value this channel and would like to help us continue to share and develop the content please consider supporting us as a level 1 Maestro by clicking here ruclips.net/channel/UC8yI8P7Zi3yYTsypera-IQgjoin Alternatively you can express your support for the channel by clicking on the Super Thanks button beneath any of our videos. Thank you.
Amazing! Thank you
That’s most kind
thank you
Thanks for your support
Thanks a lot. Very useful as always. But isn't the parallel movement in the soprano/alto voices considered "to be avoided" or "boring"? I think you mentioned this a few videos ago.
Parallel movement between S/A often happens but we need to try to avoid parallel 5ths and 8ves. Parallel movement between top and bottom parts is something that we need to be more careful with.
I'm looking for ward to seeing a video on Ostinatos.
😀
Hello Gareth!
Hi
Fell into this rabbit hole on the way here;
"The Fully Diminished Seventh as Pivot Chord"
😀
When I was taught music harmony in the past , I was instructed to avoid parallel thirds and parallel fifths because they don't fall within the rules of harmony.Is this the exception in the seond example ?
Parallel 3rds are often good. It’s parallel perfect 5ths and octaves we try to avoid.
@@MusicMattersGB Parallel 5ths sounds like Oriental Eastern harmony used very often in Chinese music.
Yes
Convincing arguments regarding the usage of common notes. On the other hand, using to much common notes may degrade the inner voices to filler material, loosing their function as an independence voice, I wonder.
There’s a balance to be achieved
💥🐻💥🐻👍👍👍... well... i like the first way too, maybe because dodecafonic/serial/jazz/punk music filling my head... 🌋🚀🌋🚀🎸🎷🎸🎷
😀
What is meant by "Ostinatos"?
Repeated patterns
@@MusicMattersGB Have you done a video, explainingOstinatos?
Not yet but we could do
Common note prompted me to think about the use of suspension in harmony.
😀
❤
Thank you
You are looking weak......are you okay???
I’m absolutely fine thanks. The weight loss has been intentional.