@@user-td3yi1mq7p Playing in India and owning 1 or 2 holdings in a jungle lets you train your elephants into mammoths!!! You can buff their damage up way beyond 1000. Even though they are small in numbers, they will crush anything that comes up against you if you have them in your army composition!
If you have a gold mine, it's a matter of what's the absolute best, not with the confounding of per gold. And maxing out your overpriced nonsense and 4 regiments of siege.
Terrain is the single most interesting factor in CK3 to me, i adore looking at the map for a cluster of terrain, deciding “i’m going to play tall and to my terrain” and stacking it. I love to have a small part of the map nobody can get into, then mid/late game fighting to make new kingdoms, install family for renown, and letting them be independent. Favorites are mountain/hill and forrest/jungle, because you can deny your enemy supplies if you have good defenses and they have interesting men-at-arms uniquely good in those terrain
One thing that I believe you forgot to mention and that I believe benefits units on the more expensive end of the spectrum is that if you are tribal, the amount of prestige that is gained from winning battles while raiding depends on the ratio of total number of troops on either side, making the decision to prioritize total damage per stack above and beyond the most important consideration as reaching the stage where you can fight without raising your levies to maximize that prestige gain creates a gameplay loop where staying constantly raiding allows you to maintain a much larger army that you would otherwise be able to. I think it is this aspect of play that makes Varangian Veterans so strong: that they are able to output the damage of a numerically superior enemy and basically pay their own upkeep.
Yes tribal is a different story. What I said mostly applies to feudal. The snowball is quite strong with tribal lords and perhaps a topic for another vid. :F
This is seriously the most detailed, perceptive, organized, & poignant CKIII video I’ve seen. Not only collecting all that data, but then illustrating each section with a graph was above & beyond. The time & hard work put into this was well worth it. I’d watch any break down you’d make crafted with this amount of quality.
This is excellent, man. This video perfectly explains everything needed for M-a-A warfare, the knowledge of which I have painstakingly (emphasis on "pain") collected in years. If only we all knew about this much sooner...
Superb work on this video! Crunching the numbers provides some awesome insights, like the bowmen that I've been sleeping on. I'm also a big fan of the key takeaways at the end to wrap up this dense but satisfactory video.
I wana thank you for all ur time and effort in making this video. It helped me understand men at arms so much better. I used to just get the best and be out of money.but now i have a better understanding
"You guys are still trying to replace Huscarls. But I told you we can't do it. And we can't do it. Now, what we might be able to do is recreate them. Recreate them in the aggregate."
I just spam horse archers. I stackwipe enemies when I catch them in favorable terrain or outnumbered, let attrition take care of large enemy stacks on mountains, siege the enemy capital to either capture the enemy war leader or lure him into favorable terrain, all while running an abduction scheme on the enemy war leader with my high intrigue character. Not to mention my accolades and buildings also buff my horse archer army stats to a degree where even in unfavorable terrain the malus is offset by all the bonuses, and if even all of that isn't enough, my army speed is also buffed so I can always run faster than the enemy army can pursue. So, all things considered, I don't even need diversification since I'm in complete control of where and when the battles will happen. This is how steppe Chads from Oghuz il roll.
I did my own analysis of this subject a few months back, and I was pleasantly surprised to watch you come to each of these conclusions in the same order I did. Nile Archers for the win lol.
It would be pretty cool if the Dutch, of just Flanders got some unique revolt mechanics. Popular revolts also used a lot of special units, the goedendag militia was literally meant as a cheap way to counter French knights. It's a big club to bludgeon armor, long enough to hit a knight off his horse and has a pointy stick to pierce weak spots of armor. I'm not expert on other border regions but I imagine they revolted quite a lot. Flanders has had nearly all it's neighbours have some kind of dominance over them and every now and then the cities revolted. The "Sint-Jorisgilde" (Saint-George's guild) was a guild responsible for the protection of cities, they were also known as the Crossbowmen guild. Revolts weren't limited to peasants, cities and guilds did it too and a lot of them had a lot of money. I can't speak for many other regions but at least in Flanders, there were very little 'levies', during revolts. The Goedendag militia is the baseline soldier. Revolts are annoying, but way too weak in CK3. If for example, economy of the region or the amount of cities would make a difference I think it would be more interesting. For example, let's take the battle of Courtrai. The French king sent a force of 2500 noble knights (squires included but still a lot), 1000 crossbowmen, 2000 pikemen and 3000 "regular soldiers" (could've been anything from light infantry to levies) The Flemish troops were organised by guilds and recieved training beforehand. Their army consisted mainly of militia were equipped with chainmail, bows, swords and A LOT with the goedendag. The Flemish had about 8500 to 11000 of these guys. 320 of these were fully trained crossbowmen and another 350 were knights (the 2500 knights from the French made this almost certainly a win for the French), there were also some troops from Zeeland and Brabant. The battle basically was one massive cavalry charge which was absolutely decimated, the knights tried to flee back, got stuck in water and mud (supreme Belgian war strategy) and all got killed upon surrender, which was rather unusual for the time. This battle could've never occured in CK3 because levies, suck hard. Some revolts lasted for years, that barely happens in CK3, most of the time you just have to decimate their main army and they're gone.
@@llosgfynydd9043 Yeah, you're probably right. Why didn't they make a starting date in 1200 or something like that anyway? It's not like the map becomes too difficult to make, right? I'd just like it if popular opinion actually meant something.
I loved this so much. If you were looking for an easy content roadmap to make more videos like this, I'd watch the shit out of "best men at arms by Kingdom" where you do something like this but go over the best army/man at arms composition for different Kingdom-level zones (i.e. the best men at arms if you're looking to conquer Ireland) where you take into account terrain,, local men at arms available by culture, etc etc. Would make for a very solid playlist with videos easily under 30 minutes each for watchability.
Something massive that this video overlooks which makes archery type units unstoppable is that the crossbow men and archer accolade stack to all archer type units meaning at max level for both you get pluss 16 max size for archer regiments +120% damage +60% toughness and -50% cost for those units
@@williamheslop5756 so if money is not a problem, should i use heavy cavalry or longbow/crossbow? Edit : adding longbow competition how that mean 18 more regiment.
@@shaka2tuare you in the warrior lodge or hill grazing area? Because if money is no option, then heavy cav because counters archers and the numbers won't matter if you have the additional hill grazing building bonus but that's an eastern thing.
thanks for making this video. I was one of the unfortunate people who read online how "heavy infantry is the best" so I would quickly fill my army with heavy units and get smacked. I eventually learned better management, but I didn't realize how powerful bowmen were before watching this video.
The one thing that's great about varangians is that you can get +4 regiment size very easily. You just need to hybridise and take eastern Roman legacy, giving +2, and then get to the second perk of one of the Norse specific legacies, for another +2. This would apply to any heavy infantry unit if you then hybridise again to get them.
This was one of the inspirations behind the video. I adventured to Sicily. Hybridized with the Greeks. Had 4 9stacks of VV. Went bust raiding to pay for the damn army.
@@llosgfynydd9043 I pretty much only play Norse, so I don't really have much experience with cheaper men at arm's, but I almost never max my guys out until I'm making tons of money. Might try longbowmen on my next run!
Yes but even without taking a single tradition, all archer type units can get +16 to regiment size due to accolades. Tradition wise i think their are 2 traditions to give +2 each to size so a total of 4(might be 3 of them for a total of 6 cant remember off top of head).
This is actually broken as f. That dynasty legacy at level 3 plus 4 gives you infinite money. Level 3 gives you bonuses to capture after battle and bonuses to ransom including prestige. 4 gives you 5 gold per hundred enemies killed. Each kingdom level war made me 2 to 4k in gold.
Really good video. The general archers to crossbowmen is even stronger when you start to consider knight accolades which you mentioned you weren't covering here. The bonuses you get from them are a separate multiplier from the other damage/toughness multipliers like buildings, cultures, etc, so they are very strong. This makes damage even more important than toughness. There is also the +units buff, which for archers can give you a +4 right at the start of the game, and go up to +8, which is insanely powerful, while heavy infantry and cav only get +2 to +6. It also takes quite awhile to raise your accolade level, so switching unit types halfway through a game can slow you down a bit. Unless you go bow to crossbowman, which shares that accolade. There's just so many incentives to focus solely on the archer class its frankly unbalanced. Personally the more I learned about MAA, the more I realized how badly we are in need of a rework. I'd like to see you try to do a MAA army composition video, but I think what you'll find (assuming you don't already know) is that there really isn't any reason to just commit to a single type and invest heavily in that unless your avoiding just having a whole army of a single unit for roleplay/"realism" reasons.
Playing up in the urals around Siberia. The Metsanvarjia or whatever literally chew through anything, especially in woods and taiga which is so prevalent up there. This was a nice watch to confirm my enjoyment of them.
Very informative overall. One thing one missing though. In my games, after by second generation, money is no longer the bottle neck, unless I've been role playing and did not get enough land. My main limiting factor has always been the size and number of man at arms I can have. Eventually I gravitate towards the most expensive, because it allows me to convert more of my financial power into military power, even if less efficiently.
Yes, overtime one will tend towards quality over quantity. That said, if you can afford nothing but full stacks of heavy cav, with all the bonuses, traditions, accolade buffs increasing the stack limit a gen in you are playing on a different level.
@llosgfynydd9043 I guess these days with acolades, it takes longer to hit the max number. But then there is also the dilemma of should I make the acolade that serves me as a kingdom, and focuse on chip stuff, or should I focused on the acolades that will make my final form stronger. I guess one argument might be that the second is just winning harder, while the first could actually hold value.
Very interesting to see these statistics, so thank you for the work you did for this video. My main problem with the list is that you mostly calculated the units killingpower against levies compared to their upkeep. That is important for the early game, but in the mid-, and certainly the lategame, levies and gold are not really a factor anymore.
Great video, a real deep dive into the topic. You covered nearly all factors, but I im really surprised you didn't even mention the differences between the buffs for men at arms. For example there aren't as many buildings for buffing archers as there are for cavalry. Isn't this a important factor to consider? I would probably change the outcome in the late game. Anyways it was fun to watch ❤
Speaking of countering only affecting the damage, that would mean that toughness has a lot of 'universalness' value. And speaking on cav, I will say my way to compare cav to other MAA is to divide their stats by two(since there are 50 of them) and compare it that way.
What I miss is "per level efficiency". Once you have your man at arms numbers maxed out, using stronger stacks can make sense, even if they are less cost efficient.
Jfc dude I'm a professional data analyst at a tech company and I have to say that this analysis is 100% pro level. Do you work in the industry? because if not you're completely qualified for a job
The finest CK3 creator is back! Is this a new microphone I hear? Very crisp fam. I still like the old crappy one better - but hopefully new viewers will like it more.
I usually start the game as Philippe Capet, so quite soon money is no issue, so I go with heavy cavalry. Once I reach for 30-40 companies (1500-2000 soldiers), I just use them. By the way the best men at arms are siege equipment.
Hey, very informative and fun video! One thing I would say is that Konni in actual live game situations are extremely powerful, they fight just ok but the pursuit is crazy and their *very* high screen means even when defeated (unless it was extremely one sided) you'll suffer very small casualties as Konni pretty much counter most of enemy pursuit. Polish armies with Konni, heavy cav and archers are terrifying
Well its interesting and valuable information. - Usually I don't take in account the "gold" factor because if I need some I just go and conquer the places with lots of gold inc ( special buildings county, constantiolpe being the top for exemple) - As a strategic player I like to go 2 steps ahead and think this way : People tend to follow the meta. What is the meta ? archers clearly. So I think : what does counter archers ? and there it is, problem solved. - Taking that in consideration and counting more on countering the meta than playing the meta, ( and I don't have much knowledge of the game, I bearly know half of the special units you listed in this video) with my litle experience I've found that these Hulskars are great units because they counter the best performing units in the game. Then I'll immediatly go for crossbowmen because of their numerous counters to have a full army that can counter everything and ofc add heavy horsemen ( unless there is a better troup that has the same counters because i dont know more about special troups). - I'm not gona mention terrain because a war isnt won in 1 battle and special units like elephants are only good in jungle witch is a very very small part of the entire map. So I'm not too sure either about elephants even tho they have such a big damage number ( but also because in my army combo they are the only ones that would counter light footmen but again ... i dont think footmen has any potential at wining wars vs heavy armies ). Anyways your video was very educative and full of valuable information but I would be interested to know if we do not care at all about gold and only focus on maxing the buffs of our men ( with the AI doesnt or bearly) but what would be the best army mixity considering for exemple if people went full archer mode. Also if you read me I have a big doubt about knights and they werent really covered in this video too much. They have no weakness and they do a lot of damage they higher is their prowess. I made a culture + religion that passively boost most knight to 40 baseline and if they are good at it they ll even reach 100 prowess( in my games i tend to overpopulate hearth with my dynasty and end up with 5k living members and the next generation we are at 15k over 40 or 50k total witch might be an issue in the very very late game because at speed 5 i need 12 seconds to have 1 mounth XD ) BUT THAT NOT THE POINT What happens if you have lets say 50 knights that are buffed 800% and have a medum prowess of 50 or 60 what will it do ? And lastly I would like to mention something, unless I'm stuck into a massive agressive holy war against me, usually I dont need to raise my levies and can count only on my men at arms witch is the main reason why I don't really care about gold, levies are ridiculously expensive for what they do. If you can answer my questions that would be amazing and if you read me thx in advance.
I prefer Huscarls to Varangian Veterans in early game, because they have better early game counters and cheaper upkeep, plus their screen allows your army to survive and keep raiding instead of going home if you happen to lose, whereas pursuit is completely useless on raids because by the time enemy could reorganise from defeat and attack you a second time, you should already be raiding the next target.
@@llosgfynydd9043I think toughness and screen are over looked. 100k ai army hit my 7k huscarls/varagian army and beat it but it looked like I only lost 600 men. 1180 with metallurgy.
I love to hybridize my culture so I have Koni and Horse Archers with maximum light cav boosting buildings. You melt armies and can leisurely siege down on your own time.
Men at arms would be better if they where tied to holding count instead of highest tittle because when I play ck I want make the map one color and look at my troop count go up until it takes 16 gigabytes of ram just to keep track of my cammle rider
So a good mixed composition is something that counters heavy infantry, archers and heavy cavalry. So 1 stack heavy/light cavalry, 1 stack pikemen, a few stacks of light infantry. Then, add some archers to increase the overall dmg.
@@llosgfynydd9043 Well, this is what the video says. I usually just get the earliest hybrid culture I can where I can get horse archers, and then spam them. There is nothing that counters them until crossbows, so until your deep into the high medieval ages you will not see any counters.
@@llosgfynydd9043 Terrain is kinda hard to give general advice for I feel. Maybe the best advice is that culture specific man at arms will usually preform very well in their cultures terrain. (but you did point out correctly in the video some exceptions)
It's Mubarizun, not Maburizan. Goedendag is pronounced very similar to guttentag, and they literally mean the same thing. I personally like buffing my knights to an extreme extent, and then using shomer as my damage sponges. Obviously knights don't have any bonuses or maluses from terrain, but it's the same for shomer. Shomer cost the same as regular light infantry, but have the toughness of pikemen, as well as a really high screen.
very nice video. however if we are running an early game survival (your first scenario) we should never consider things unlocked later in the tech tree. it doesn't matter if say crossbow is best if I can't HAVE crossbow in 867 nor 1066. by the time I unlock even crossbows even in 1066 even if I start as a OPM on Ireland. I should already have all of Ireland and thus no longer be in that early game one win or loss wins or loses the war scenario. the list for that scenario should therefore only consider at the most that which exists to be used in 1066 as even a decade into the game (and it takes more than that to get high medieval from 1066) you should have one way or another gotten out of that high risk start either by taking more land making alliances or building up your capital. looking at your list at say 8:16 tells a viewer nothing. sure Shomer is best but can I even use it? (having looked it up yes I can if I can get my hands on defensive tactics...) I have 1600 hours in this game and had no idea when it unlocks maybe it can be used if I have the right culture maybe not. but I know that crossbow will never be used in the scenario you presented. so I have to doubt the utility of the whole list unless i know specifically that something is avalible in the time period I want to play. until I checked for quite a while (and finally found the shoomer.) I assumed they were like longbow 2 a very late game statblock outperforming in a list they never should have been in at all. in the future it may be more useful to present what is available at both starts and compare them. then show the overall best as a thing to aim for. but again the survival scenario shouldn't be a factor before you unlock new units. unlocking new units takes decades. you want to be out of survival mode in less than 10 years if you can help it at all... and if you can't you need to find a liege or allies that will make the man at arms irrelevant. the rest of the video is really good. and only that first scenario should be so constrained. for the others we can expect these events to occur throughout the game and so knowing the overall best is great and then people need to look at their own situation to figure out what is best for them. but when talking about game start... it really is more useful to actually constrain the scenario to what people can actually get. (for instance I might want to try a rabbinic start now to use those shoomers. but not knowing if they even were available until tech unlock made that quite confusing and it took more time for me to figure out where they were and if they were available than it took to watch the entire video if you left late tech things off the list I would at leas be able to assume that they are Available even if I have to go find them. but in this case I very nearly never looked at all presuming them to be late game tech.)
I wanted to read all of your reply before replying. So yes. Some of these MaAs may be of limited use. But I didn't want to exclude them as I wanted to compare all of them. And any deeper analysis I feared would bloat an already 45 min video. But the early game test can happen later game. Though rare, you can still find yourself as a lowly duke where 1 battle decides it all. Ultimately the more I researched, the more I could include, so I decided to be all encompassing, but that would include some outliers. Otherwise, with the stuff I didn't mention, they will be in the more videos to come.
@llosgfynydd9043 I'm honestly not sure how you get back to that state late game... at that point, wouldn't the run be scuffed? To get back there not only do you need to be reduced to a count (even a duke shouldnhave more than 1000 men and 1 county and just 2 county's means you can retreat andntry again.)but also if you have any dynasty members you can marry then off for alliances to save you and if they are landed you can call them in themselves. So your entire family needs to be wiped out to get back to the that level of vulnerableity... and many starts are not that vulnerable even at gamebstart. To me that scenario seems vanishinglu rare not sure how that is possible, late game as in most games by the second or 3rd generation i have over 10 family members... or I may be misunderstanding the survival scenario Still, fair enough, it's your channel, and you can do what you want with it. I certainly enjoy it enough to watch all the vids. I do have a quick question though. By longbow 2 do you mean longbow in the second Era or longbow at endgame (all era's) cause I wasn't sure...
@@zenkrypt6577 they are. however I was discussing early game. when they don't exist yet. hence why they shouldn't be included. their stats don't matter if they don't exist. and their presence in the chart leads to confusion.
Me: Mmm, yes this is all very useful information and highly interesting. Also me: Let's merge all my random units into one stack and just chase around the enemy and see if I can win.
I’m just starting this video and feel like I just walked into the equivalent of the library of Congress for ck3 MAA. My personal favorites are the Persian Tarkhans and Asawira. I’m curious to see how they stack up.
great video, very thorough and informative. My one critique would be the noticeable exhales at the end of sentences just before the cut such as at 6:59, its somewhat distracting and takes me out of the flow of the video. Otherwise great.
Also another point for basic bowmen, they counter skirmishers, which as I understand it, means that they *counter levies* on top of everything else, just insane.
Thanks for this analysis! Agreed the Xbows are the best. A few things I think that you left out -- - Buildings are not created equal. You can get more bonuses for Archers than for other MaA types. And Forest is plentiful. e.g. my Crossbows are doing 300 damage (and could be higher if I used my duchy building for an Archery Ground instead of a Military Academy). Where as Heavy Infantry wants ... farmland for its best buildings. - Accolades are not created equal. Crossbows (and Archers) benefit from _both_ the Crossbow and Archer accolade, and you can stack both if you have a knight with at least 20 xp in Hastiluder: Bow. This gets you a whopping +16 regiment size for each regiment you have. - Cost reductions make everything way cheaper in mid game, especially Dread based cost reductions, e.g. I had 40,000 crossbows that cost me 1.1 gold / month when raised - You don't need siege if you have workshops. And workshops buff Archers. That means more crossbows. - Combat width means you want high quality troops, since the larger army gets a damage penalty - Knights are insanely valuable since they only take 1 combat width and thus are always present in combat - I'm not sure terrain bonuses matter past the very early game. I don't know that they scale based off buildings, which means they get washed out entirely - Countering only works if someone has more units than you do -- this means if you have more units than they do, _they cannot counter you_ effectively - Crossbows counter Heavy Infantry _and_ Heavy Cavalry _and_ Horse Archers - Thanks to Accolades, Crossbows will _always outnumber_ their opponent. No other MaA type double-dips in Accolades. I haven't tested this in game, but from mathing it out, I'm pretty sure that even an optimal anti-crossbow army of the best light cav (which counters archers) -- Chasseurs -- with the best buildings and equivalent knights -- fighting on plains -- would lose to the best crossbow army because there are more crossbows, so aren't countered effectively, and they have better buildings so do more damage (and have a higher base damage of 42 vs. 40 for Chasseurs). So even in the worst conditions, Crossbows win. And Chasseurs require a specific Empire, and most Light Cav is far worse than Chasseurs.
Yes. I agree with everything here. Just some things to note. Terrain is added before buffs are applied. So it is super valuable. Combat width is great, but people over value it. It has diminishing returns. So double troops make x0.75 damage. You need infinitely more troops to get x0.5. Finally, crossbows have a terrain penalty in flatland. So I think chassuers would win without accolades.
@@llosgfynydd9043 Good to know that terrain is added before % bonuses. Is there a CK3 combat mod to easily test different comps? I am pretty sure, from my napkin math, that max upgraded crossbows would beat max upgraded chassuers, just because xbows have better accolades and buildings
Nice video bro. I got all your analysis of the money per enemy killed stuff. However I think this method of analyzing the power is largely defected since men at arms are limited by the total number of brigands not the overall cost/maintenance. Of course 500 cataphracts are gonna beat 500 crossbows at any terrain. It’s hard to understand why would anyone think bows are better than heavy cavs if money is not the only factor.
Yes. For some peeps money is no issue. That said. If you are going off regiments. You can easily see the best just by multiplying the damage and toughness together for a rough guess of power.
You're right. I was being a tad dramatic. Just found it funny how there is a whole stretch between the tarim basin and the Sahara where there isn't a single oasis tile at all.
Love your approach, very informative and instructive. To return the favour, as a native Dutch speaker: 'Goedendag' means 'Good day', as in, the salutation when you're leaving. No, I don't think anybody knows who decided to call it that, and yes, as kids we all find it endlessly hilarious. (And as an adult I still do :D ) The way to pronounce it is actually a lot closer to English than it seems at first; You know how you say can 'wooden door' instead of 'wood door'? it's literally that, 'gooden day'. The A at the end is a 'soft' A, like in the English word Market The G's are the tricky part. You know how when some people say 'Loch Ness', the CH sounds soft an throaty and kind of like they're clearing their throat or about to cough up some slime? That's the sound you're going for. Yes, we know, our language sounds terrible, we think so too. :D So to sum it all up, in my amateur version of a phonetic description: "Chooden Dach" ruclips.net/video/kCaRX9NtkVY/видео.html About 10 seconds in you hear it correctly pronounced a bunch of times by two different people :)
@@llosgfynydd9043I doubt you've upset that many of them; in my experience we usually think other people speaking our language are adorable and/or hopelessly optimistic. For example; even most natives who haven't heard it before have trouble pronouncing my last name, and it's about as Dutch as it gets. (As far as I know, my family is entirely from here, at least for the last couple of hundred years.)
After the new patch all i have are elephants buffed up by having indian perks(it gives 1000+ for one regiment if done correct ), horse archers from england and seige weapon
I'm sure others have pointed this out but: A severe lacking in this analysis is: how much can you boost each type of men-at-arms with Culture and Buildings? For example, I am now doing a heavy longbow run, but there are many more buildings for other types of units than bowman, and maybe more culture traditions, as I think I've maxed out my bow culture with Longbow, Adaptive Skirmisher, and Strength in Numbers. Also key is, many of these boosts are percentage-wise, so, for example, while I tried to build a strong skirmisher regiment, 300% of 10 is... 30. While 200% of 50 is 150. Huge differences. Another significant factor almost totally ignored is that your # of men-at-arms is limited by technology. So, while in theory dozens of skirmishers might be stronger than heavy horse, you only have so many men-at-arms that your tech can field. So, arguably the most important question of: If money is no object, what's the strongest men-at-arms regiment you should field with limited numbers, is unanswered. I mean, I'm looking at 40K gold and +200/month, money is no object to me. I like this video a lot but I think a follow-up where these types of things are considered is appropriate.
I'm pretty sure I covered it. For most of the graphs. If you add +100% to all the men at arms. They all do better. But the order is the same. For example. If you add +500% to the shomer and gendarme, the shomer are still on top in cheapest to win.
Great analysis, but looking over accolades was an oversight, especially for archers. They can double dip and get +12 size to their regiments, and +120% dmg after all other bonuses like buildings. This does not mention that archers get the highest bonus from terrain excluding wind furnaces at 480%.
As northman take some lands of khazaria and then, crete. You have varangian, huscarl, horse raiders and cataphracts. What else you need? Maybe some welsh longbowmen
the unique light infantry that I think the Yemini area and one or two north african cultures get are insanely OP. I think they are called Abdur or something weird like that. They counter two types of units and are dirt cheap.
best strat i found so far: pick abbasid, take baghdad + cairo with their op floodplains. mubarizun + camel building for op knights and conquer the 4 corners of the earth. you have op development, op knights, no weakness insane MAA unit with the op floodplain building and you can do it all from the start of the game
I got to say, if you playing as a norse and starting in tribal era, varangian vet's are THE BEST troops in a game untill you unlock xbow men. You do not have to worry about gold whatsoever in tribal era. It is extremely OP. Theres absolutely nothing that can stop you if your army consists of couple of stacks of VV's and dozen of knights. You keep raiding, stackwhiping armies, looting gold/prestige and get level 2 warcamps in each of your counties. In fact, you should get level 2 building in every available slot you have before you transition to feudal because these level 2 tribal buildings will turn into level 2 feudal buildings and if you are lucky enough you save tons of gold! Anyway, i usually roll with 2 to 4 stacks of VV's, add siege when available, next unit i will be adding is xbow men in late game because these guys happen to be units you can buff up with buildings way more then any melee unit. Their damage and toughness surpasses VV's and they are more numerous! Final army composition: 2stacks of VV's, 3stacks of xbow's, 2stacks of heavy cav, (or 1 heavy, one light cav) 2 stacks of siege. These troops buffed up to max with proper buildings + buffs from acclaimed knights will wipe stacks of troops that are like 100 times larger than them! I literally wiped a crusader army with over 100k troops with my stack of MAA 16k strong, taking like no casulties at all! It is quite rare for you to catch that big stacks in a game to begin with because most of the time troops are spread out to avoid atrition and your troops will murder smaller stacks of troops so fast that they dont even have time to gather up! Then again, importance of knights cannot be underestimated, having ''only the strong'' tradition and couple of military academies will make these guys kiling machines!
Good information, tho I think value per gold is not relevant in the late game. Your income eventually becomes so big that the limiting factor is getting maximum value per stack regardless of the cost.
Personally I prefer light infantry and light cavalry in the early game, as it opens winning by attrition, on top of countering both archer and heavy infantry.
Childhood is when you face roll with haesteinn
Adulthood is when you watch a bachelors level math class on unit effectiveness.
dude, where did you steal that line from?
@@donkarnage6986 that was stoned me, take it with a grain of salt.
Childhood is when you idolize heavy cavalry, adulthood is when you embrace light footmen
And being a byzantine trust fund baby is spamming cataphracts from day one because what else are you going to do with all that money?
@@user-td3yi1mq7p Playing in India and owning 1 or 2 holdings in a jungle lets you train your elephants into mammoths!!! You can buff their damage up way beyond 1000. Even though they are small in numbers, they will crush anything that comes up against you if you have them in your army composition!
If you have a gold mine, it's a matter of what's the absolute best, not with the confounding of per gold. And maxing out your overpriced nonsense and 4 regiments of siege.
@@user-td3yi1mq7p
Fund proxy wars in the Middle East, North Africa, and Iberia
war dogs spam on fallen eagle tho 👌
Terrain is the single most interesting factor in CK3 to me, i adore looking at the map for a cluster of terrain, deciding “i’m going to play tall and to my terrain” and stacking it. I love to have a small part of the map nobody can get into, then mid/late game fighting to make new kingdoms, install family for renown, and letting them be independent. Favorites are mountain/hill and forrest/jungle, because you can deny your enemy supplies if you have good defenses and they have interesting men-at-arms uniquely good in those terrain
Terrain + MAA stacking is the only way I’ve ever been able to fight off event troops like the Mongols and William The Conquerer.
*laughs in georgian/armenian pikemen on mountain forts*
No seriously, they're cheap as shit to boot
Bellicose Armenian would be. Cheaper. Combined 25 percent off upkeep with Eastern armies.
The effort you go to to ensnare your enemies is commendable.
Ahhhh I love myself some sapmi
this was honestly way more informative than i was expecting. nice video bro
One thing that I believe you forgot to mention and that I believe benefits units on the more expensive end of the spectrum is that if you are tribal, the amount of prestige that is gained from winning battles while raiding depends on the ratio of total number of troops on either side, making the decision to prioritize total damage per stack above and beyond the most important consideration as reaching the stage where you can fight without raising your levies to maximize that prestige gain creates a gameplay loop where staying constantly raiding allows you to maintain a much larger army that you would otherwise be able to. I think it is this aspect of play that makes Varangian Veterans so strong: that they are able to output the damage of a numerically superior enemy and basically pay their own upkeep.
Yes tribal is a different story.
What I said mostly applies to feudal.
The snowball is quite strong with tribal lords and perhaps a topic for another vid. :F
This is seriously the most detailed, perceptive, organized, & poignant CKIII video I’ve seen. Not only collecting all that data, but then illustrating each section with a graph was above & beyond. The time & hard work put into this was well worth it. I’d watch any break down you’d make crafted with this amount of quality.
This is excellent, man. This video perfectly explains everything needed for M-a-A warfare, the knowledge of which I have painstakingly (emphasis on "pain") collected in years. If only we all knew about this much sooner...
The production value is absolutely amazing!
Pure gold. I wish there was more.
I saw this from start to end and enjoyed every minute.
Thank you for the video.
My allegiance lies with the Horse Archers no matter what
depending on terrain, thats probably a good strat
Superb work on this video! Crunching the numbers provides some awesome insights, like the bowmen that I've been sleeping on. I'm also a big fan of the key takeaways at the end to wrap up this dense but satisfactory video.
I wana thank you for all ur time and effort in making this video. It helped me understand men at arms so much better. I used to just get the best and be out of money.but now i have a better understanding
"You guys are still trying to replace Huscarls. But I told you we can't do it. And we can't do it. Now, what we might be able to do is recreate them. Recreate them in the aggregate."
I just run Huscarls. No need to replace them. No negative Terran and they counter bows.
I just spam horse archers. I stackwipe enemies when I catch them in favorable terrain or outnumbered, let attrition take care of large enemy stacks on mountains, siege the enemy capital to either capture the enemy war leader or lure him into favorable terrain, all while running an abduction scheme on the enemy war leader with my high intrigue character. Not to mention my accolades and buildings also buff my horse archer army stats to a degree where even in unfavorable terrain the malus is offset by all the bonuses, and if even all of that isn't enough, my army speed is also buffed so I can always run faster than the enemy army can pursue. So, all things considered, I don't even need diversification since I'm in complete control of where and when the battles will happen. This is how steppe Chads from Oghuz il roll.
Hey, you had me when you did the mathematical equation and all of the work you put into this
you got my like
keep it up
I did my own analysis of this subject a few months back, and I was pleasantly surprised to watch you come to each of these conclusions in the same order I did. Nile Archers for the win lol.
Under the microscope it turns out they are nuts.
Nubian archers completely decimated the Arabs every time they tried to invade, so it’s realistic
It would be pretty cool if the Dutch, of just Flanders got some unique revolt mechanics. Popular revolts also used a lot of special units, the goedendag militia was literally meant as a cheap way to counter French knights. It's a big club to bludgeon armor, long enough to hit a knight off his horse and has a pointy stick to pierce weak spots of armor. I'm not expert on other border regions but I imagine they revolted quite a lot. Flanders has had nearly all it's neighbours have some kind of dominance over them and every now and then the cities revolted. The "Sint-Jorisgilde" (Saint-George's guild) was a guild responsible for the protection of cities, they were also known as the Crossbowmen guild. Revolts weren't limited to peasants, cities and guilds did it too and a lot of them had a lot of money. I can't speak for many other regions but at least in Flanders, there were very little 'levies', during revolts. The Goedendag militia is the baseline soldier. Revolts are annoying, but way too weak in CK3. If for example, economy of the region or the amount of cities would make a difference I think it would be more interesting.
For example, let's take the battle of Courtrai. The French king sent a force of 2500 noble knights (squires included but still a lot), 1000 crossbowmen, 2000 pikemen and 3000 "regular soldiers" (could've been anything from light infantry to levies) The Flemish troops were organised by guilds and recieved training beforehand. Their army consisted mainly of militia were equipped with chainmail, bows, swords and A LOT with the goedendag. The Flemish had about 8500 to 11000 of these guys. 320 of these were fully trained crossbowmen and another 350 were knights (the 2500 knights from the French made this almost certainly a win for the French), there were also some troops from Zeeland and Brabant.
The battle basically was one massive cavalry charge which was absolutely decimated, the knights tried to flee back, got stuck in water and mud (supreme Belgian war strategy) and all got killed upon surrender, which was rather unusual for the time. This battle could've never occured in CK3 because levies, suck hard. Some revolts lasted for years, that barely happens in CK3, most of the time you just have to decimate their main army and they're gone.
This would be some DLC material I could get behind. I fear it comes comes to late from the 1066 start date to get any love...
@@llosgfynydd9043 Yeah, you're probably right. Why didn't they make a starting date in 1200 or something like that anyway? It's not like the map becomes too difficult to make, right? I'd just like it if popular opinion actually meant something.
I loved this so much. If you were looking for an easy content roadmap to make more videos like this, I'd watch the shit out of "best men at arms by Kingdom" where you do something like this but go over the best army/man at arms composition for different Kingdom-level zones (i.e. the best men at arms if you're looking to conquer Ireland) where you take into account terrain,, local men at arms available by culture, etc etc.
Would make for a very solid playlist with videos easily under 30 minutes each for watchability.
Something massive that this video overlooks which makes archery type units unstoppable is that the crossbow men and archer accolade stack to all archer type units meaning at max level for both you get pluss 16 max size for archer regiments +120% damage +60% toughness and -50% cost for those units
Also just a little extra if you only raise men at arms units and not levies you are more likely to stack wipe
Is this true? Did other type stack too or only atcher type?
@@shaka2tuit’s stacks with archer types specifically because there are two accolades which buff them, which is unique to th
@@williamheslop5756 so if money is not a problem, should i use heavy cavalry or longbow/crossbow?
Edit : adding longbow competition how that mean 18 more regiment.
@@shaka2tuare you in the warrior lodge or hill grazing area? Because if money is no option, then heavy cav because counters archers and the numbers won't matter if you have the additional hill grazing building bonus but that's an eastern thing.
This deserves more likes this is so interesting and useful.
I’m only a few minutes in but I’m loving this video and I think you make great content. New sub.
This is a phenomenal video, thanks so much for this brilliant deep dive - loved the data visualisation
This is legit the BEST CK3 video I've seen. Everyone wants to know "Whats the best MAA" and you showed your homework! I hope you keep it up!
thanks for making this video. I was one of the unfortunate people who read online how "heavy infantry is the best" so I would quickly fill my army with heavy units and get smacked. I eventually learned better management, but I didn't realize how powerful bowmen were before watching this video.
Your content is unexpectedly deep and informative. Good work. I like that you put a summary and the 10 rules of thumbs are the cherry on top
Amazing video, thanks for the detailed breakdowns of different situations and accompanying graphs
you are the only ck3 content creator I watch.
I love the way you made this video. Very informative and the music was very comphy.
Your video quality is unreal. As a data analyst myself I am ultra impressed
You choose your men at arms for their stats . I choose my men at arms thinking of what i would like to use in battle . We are not the same
Would we be the same if I thought longbowmen looked badass?
@@llosgfynydd9043 maybe . I just most times have 2 pikemen 1 crossbow 1 one heavy/light cav and siege
The one thing that's great about varangians is that you can get +4 regiment size very easily. You just need to hybridise and take eastern Roman legacy, giving +2, and then get to the second perk of one of the Norse specific legacies, for another +2. This would apply to any heavy infantry unit if you then hybridise again to get them.
This was one of the inspirations behind the video.
I adventured to Sicily.
Hybridized with the Greeks.
Had 4 9stacks of VV.
Went bust raiding to pay for the damn army.
@@llosgfynydd9043 I pretty much only play Norse, so I don't really have much experience with cheaper men at arm's, but I almost never max my guys out until I'm making tons of money. Might try longbowmen on my next run!
Yes but even without taking a single tradition, all archer type units can get +16 to regiment size due to accolades. Tradition wise i think their are 2 traditions to give +2 each to size so a total of 4(might be 3 of them for a total of 6 cant remember off top of head).
This is actually broken as f. That dynasty legacy at level 3 plus 4 gives you infinite money. Level 3 gives you bonuses to capture after battle and bonuses to ransom including prestige. 4 gives you 5 gold per hundred enemies killed. Each kingdom level war made me 2 to 4k in gold.
Great video mate, really well made, very thorough but concise enough that it doesnt drag on.
Really good video. The general archers to crossbowmen is even stronger when you start to consider knight accolades which you mentioned you weren't covering here. The bonuses you get from them are a separate multiplier from the other damage/toughness multipliers like buildings, cultures, etc, so they are very strong. This makes damage even more important than toughness. There is also the +units buff, which for archers can give you a +4 right at the start of the game, and go up to +8, which is insanely powerful, while heavy infantry and cav only get +2 to +6. It also takes quite awhile to raise your accolade level, so switching unit types halfway through a game can slow you down a bit. Unless you go bow to crossbowman, which shares that accolade.
There's just so many incentives to focus solely on the archer class its frankly unbalanced. Personally the more I learned about MAA, the more I realized how badly we are in need of a rework. I'd like to see you try to do a MAA army composition video, but I think what you'll find (assuming you don't already know) is that there really isn't any reason to just commit to a single type and invest heavily in that unless your avoiding just having a whole army of a single unit for roleplay/"realism" reasons.
Just found you through this video, great stuff! Love a deep dive into the intricacies of the game. Subbed!
Thanks man. Glad you enjoyed the details as much as me.
Love this data driven passion mixed with the love of ck3
Playing up in the urals around Siberia. The Metsanvarjia or whatever literally chew through anything, especially in woods and taiga which is so prevalent up there. This was a nice watch to confirm my enjoyment of them.
Very informative overall. One thing one missing though.
In my games, after by second generation, money is no longer the bottle neck, unless I've been role playing and did not get enough land.
My main limiting factor has always been the size and number of man at arms I can have. Eventually I gravitate towards the most expensive, because it allows me to convert more of my financial power into military power, even if less efficiently.
Yes, overtime one will tend towards quality over quantity.
That said, if you can afford nothing but full stacks of heavy cav, with all the bonuses, traditions, accolade buffs increasing the stack limit a gen in you are playing on a different level.
@llosgfynydd9043 I guess these days with acolades, it takes longer to hit the max number. But then there is also the dilemma of should I make the acolade that serves me as a kingdom, and focuse on chip stuff, or should I focused on the acolades that will make my final form stronger. I guess one argument might be that the second is just winning harder, while the first could actually hold value.
Very interesting to see these statistics, so thank you for the work you did for this video.
My main problem with the list is that you mostly calculated the units killingpower against levies compared to their upkeep. That is important for the early game, but in the mid-, and certainly the lategame, levies and gold are not really a factor anymore.
Great video, a real deep dive into the topic. You covered nearly all factors, but I im really surprised you didn't even mention the differences between the buffs for men at arms. For example there aren't as many buildings for buffing archers as there are for cavalry. Isn't this a important factor to consider? I would probably change the outcome in the late game. Anyways it was fun to watch ❤
Literally just dropped a video on that very subject
This is the best CK3 video ever, and it doesn't even include gameplay.
this video is insanely good, keep up the content man :D
Speaking of countering only affecting the damage, that would mean that toughness has a lot of 'universalness' value. And speaking on cav, I will say my way to compare cav to other MAA is to divide their stats by two(since there are 50 of them) and compare it that way.
What I miss is "per level efficiency". Once you have your man at arms numbers maxed out, using stronger stacks can make sense, even if they are less cost efficient.
Yes they can, I like you're best off filling your regiments first then progressing to more quality.
Fantastic content, you have my gratitude as im sure this took a lot of work and time.
Jfc dude I'm a professional data analyst at a tech company and I have to say that this analysis is 100% pro level. Do you work in the industry? because if not you're completely qualified for a job
Aw. Thanks man. That's very kind.
He's back hell yeah
Rumours of my demise were greatly exaggerated.
The finest CK3 creator is back!
Is this a new microphone I hear? Very crisp fam.
I still like the old crappy one better - but hopefully new viewers will like it more.
It is. I took the hint and upgraded
I usually start the game as Philippe Capet, so quite soon money is no issue, so I go with heavy cavalry. Once I reach for 30-40 companies (1500-2000 soldiers), I just use them.
By the way the best men at arms are siege equipment.
Hey, very informative and fun video!
One thing I would say is that Konni in actual live game situations are extremely powerful, they fight just ok but the pursuit is crazy and their *very* high screen means even when defeated (unless it was extremely one sided) you'll suffer very small casualties as Konni pretty much counter most of enemy pursuit. Polish armies with Konni, heavy cav and archers are terrifying
Thats the combo I used when playing as poland: heavy cav, konni, archers, and the rest siege. Pretty much curb stomped everything.
pursuit stackwipes ar actually pretty cool too, that way you can make a toughness based army with high pursuit and still 'stackwipe'
No need if you win fast enough^^
@@flyingdutchman9053why not do both?
@@robertblume2951 because my longbows either kill or die. ^^ as do most units that are not heavy infantry.
@@flyingdutchman9053 heavy cav have both but ya I have been maining heavy inf so I can always live another day. I love toughness.
@@robertblume2951 I really like archers because it is very easy to get rather cheap stacks that insta wipe complete armies. (esp with both accolades)
Well its interesting and valuable information.
- Usually I don't take in account the "gold" factor because if I need some I just go and conquer the places with lots of gold inc ( special buildings county, constantiolpe being the top for exemple)
- As a strategic player I like to go 2 steps ahead and think this way : People tend to follow the meta. What is the meta ? archers clearly. So I think : what does counter archers ? and there it is, problem solved.
- Taking that in consideration and counting more on countering the meta than playing the meta, ( and I don't have much knowledge of the game, I bearly know half of the special units you listed in this video) with my litle experience I've found that these Hulskars are great units because they counter the best performing units in the game. Then I'll immediatly go for crossbowmen because of their numerous counters to have a full army that can counter everything and ofc add heavy horsemen ( unless there is a better troup that has the same counters because i dont know more about special troups).
- I'm not gona mention terrain because a war isnt won in 1 battle and special units like elephants are only good in jungle witch is a very very small part of the entire map. So I'm not too sure either about elephants even tho they have such a big damage number ( but also because in my army combo they are the only ones that would counter light footmen but again ... i dont think footmen has any potential at wining wars vs heavy armies ).
Anyways your video was very educative and full of valuable information but I would be interested to know if we do not care at all about gold and only focus on maxing the buffs of our men ( with the AI doesnt or bearly) but what would be the best army mixity considering for exemple if people went full archer mode.
Also if you read me I have a big doubt about knights and they werent really covered in this video too much. They have no weakness and they do a lot of damage they higher is their prowess. I made a culture + religion that passively boost most knight to 40 baseline and if they are good at it they ll even reach 100 prowess( in my games i tend to overpopulate hearth with my dynasty and end up with 5k living members and the next generation we are at 15k over 40 or 50k total witch might be an issue in the very very late game because at speed 5 i need 12 seconds to have 1 mounth XD ) BUT THAT NOT THE POINT
What happens if you have lets say 50 knights that are buffed 800% and have a medum prowess of 50 or 60 what will it do ?
And lastly I would like to mention something, unless I'm stuck into a massive agressive holy war against me, usually I dont need to raise my levies and can count only on my men at arms witch is the main reason why I don't really care about gold, levies are ridiculously expensive for what they do.
If you can answer my questions that would be amazing and if you read me thx in advance.
Incredible work!
I prefer Huscarls to Varangian Veterans in early game, because they have better early game counters and cheaper upkeep, plus their screen allows your army to survive and keep raiding instead of going home if you happen to lose, whereas pursuit is completely useless on raids because by the time enemy could reorganise from defeat and attack you a second time, you should already be raiding the next target.
Yes! Huscarls have screen. Why didn't I think of that. Reduces the risk in raiding.
@@llosgfynydd9043I think toughness and screen are over looked. 100k ai army hit my 7k huscarls/varagian army and beat it but it looked like I only lost 600 men. 1180 with metallurgy.
Thanks volcano! Interesting video
I love to hybridize my culture so I have Koni and Horse Archers with maximum light cav boosting buildings. You melt armies and can leisurely siege down on your own time.
Men at arms would be better if they where tied to holding count instead of highest tittle because when I play ck I want make the map one color and look at my troop count go up until it takes 16 gigabytes of ram just to keep track of my cammle rider
So a good mixed composition is something that counters heavy infantry, archers and heavy cavalry. So 1 stack heavy/light cavalry, 1 stack pikemen, a few stacks of light infantry. Then, add some archers to increase the overall dmg.
So a bit of everything in your case then. :D
@@llosgfynydd9043 Well, this is what the video says. I usually just get the earliest hybrid culture I can where I can get horse archers, and then spam them.
There is nothing that counters them until crossbows, so until your deep into the high medieval ages you will not see any counters.
I mean. Mixing can have drawbacks. In that you're not really going to take advantage of terrain.
@@llosgfynydd9043 Terrain is kinda hard to give general advice for I feel. Maybe the best advice is that culture specific man at arms will usually preform very well in their cultures terrain. (but you did point out correctly in the video some exceptions)
good video, very informative
Glad it was helpful!
All the points you make are true but.. an army souly made out of cataphracts is more fun than an army of longbowmen
I respect your opinion. And cataphracts are awesome. But my ancestors are right.
England and Wales exist in 1453.
Does Byzantium?
@@llosgfynydd9043 In my opinion the English copied the Welsh and then used there bow to invade my ancestors the Irish
In my opinion that is a valid opinion
@@llosgfynydd9043Does Wales? Or was it rather conquered more than a century before Byzantium ultimately fell?
It's Mubarizun, not Maburizan.
Goedendag is pronounced very similar to guttentag, and they literally mean the same thing.
I personally like buffing my knights to an extreme extent, and then using shomer as my damage sponges. Obviously knights don't have any bonuses or maluses from terrain, but it's the same for shomer. Shomer cost the same as regular light infantry, but have the toughness of pikemen, as well as a really high screen.
My bet before watching: A mixture. Maximizes chance to counter, maximizes scenarios in which you're still relevant.
very nice video.
however if we are running an early game survival (your first scenario) we should never consider things unlocked later in the tech tree. it doesn't matter if say crossbow is best if I can't HAVE crossbow in 867 nor 1066. by the time I unlock even crossbows even in 1066 even if I start as a OPM on Ireland. I should already have all of Ireland and thus no longer be in that early game one win or loss wins or loses the war scenario. the list for that scenario should therefore only consider at the most that which exists to be used in 1066 as even a decade into the game (and it takes more than that to get high medieval from 1066) you should have one way or another gotten out of that high risk start either by taking more land making alliances or building up your capital.
looking at your list at say 8:16 tells a viewer nothing. sure Shomer is best but can I even use it? (having looked it up yes I can if I can get my hands on defensive tactics...) I have 1600 hours in this game and had no idea when it unlocks maybe it can be used if I have the right culture maybe not. but I know that crossbow will never be used in the scenario you presented. so I have to doubt the utility of the whole list unless i know specifically that something is avalible in the time period I want to play. until I checked for quite a while (and finally found the shoomer.) I assumed they were like longbow 2 a very late game statblock outperforming in a list they never should have been in at all.
in the future it may be more useful to present what is available at both starts and compare them. then show the overall best as a thing to aim for. but again the survival scenario shouldn't be a factor before you unlock new units. unlocking new units takes decades. you want to be out of survival mode in less than 10 years if you can help it at all... and if you can't you need to find a liege or allies that will make the man at arms irrelevant.
the rest of the video is really good. and only that first scenario should be so constrained. for the others we can expect these events to occur throughout the game and so knowing the overall best is great and then people need to look at their own situation to figure out what is best for them. but when talking about game start... it really is more useful to actually constrain the scenario to what people can actually get. (for instance I might want to try a rabbinic start now to use those shoomers. but not knowing if they even were available until tech unlock made that quite confusing and it took more time for me to figure out where they were and if they were available than it took to watch the entire video if you left late tech things off the list I would at leas be able to assume that they are Available even if I have to go find them. but in this case I very nearly never looked at all presuming them to be late game tech.)
I wanted to read all of your reply before replying.
So yes. Some of these MaAs may be of limited use.
But I didn't want to exclude them as I wanted to compare all of them.
And any deeper analysis I feared would bloat an already 45 min video.
But the early game test can happen later game.
Though rare, you can still find yourself as a lowly duke where 1 battle decides it all.
Ultimately the more I researched, the more I could include, so I decided to be all encompassing, but that would include some outliers.
Otherwise, with the stuff I didn't mention, they will be in the more videos to come.
@llosgfynydd9043 I'm honestly not sure how you get back to that state late game... at that point, wouldn't the run be scuffed? To get back there not only do you need to be reduced to a count (even a duke shouldnhave more than 1000 men and 1 county and just 2 county's means you can retreat andntry again.)but also if you have any dynasty members you can marry then off for alliances to save you and if they are landed you can call them in themselves. So your entire family needs to be wiped out to get back to the that level of vulnerableity... and many starts are not that vulnerable even at gamebstart. To me that scenario seems vanishinglu rare not sure how that is possible, late game as in most games by the second or 3rd generation i have over 10 family members... or I may be misunderstanding the survival scenario
Still, fair enough, it's your channel, and you can do what you want with it. I certainly enjoy it enough to watch all the vids. I do have a quick question though. By longbow 2 do you mean longbow in the second Era or longbow at endgame (all era's) cause I wasn't sure...
@@scorpioneldar Crossbow is a good troop lategame anyway as the buildings it used buff siege strength, so you get a double whammy.
@@zenkrypt6577 they are. however I was discussing early game. when they don't exist yet. hence why they shouldn't be included. their stats don't matter if they don't exist. and their presence in the chart leads to confusion.
This was amazing. Thanks a lot!
Me: Mmm, yes this is all very useful information and highly interesting.
Also me: Let's merge all my random units into one stack and just chase around the enemy and see if I can win.
I see nothing wrong with playing both ways.
@@llosgfynydd9043honestly my playstyle is embarassing. I succeed on complete accident usually lol.
I mean, why do you think all my videos are analysis and no gameplay?
I’m just over 3 minutes in and still perplexed if I’m listening to Carl Benjamin
7:40 FUCKING YES DUDE!!!!
OMMMGGGG
All this is missing is an integral
Best is varangian guard + roman empire run as you buff heavy infantry...
I love doing a Greek-Norse hybrid culture to get both cultures unique units, and take advantage of the high income of the Byzantines.
Thank you man!
I’m just starting this video and feel like I just walked into the equivalent of the library of Congress for ck3 MAA. My personal favorites are the Persian Tarkhans and Asawira. I’m curious to see how they stack up.
Yes. I think that region deserves it's own deep dive.
Looking forward for more.
great video, very thorough and informative. My one critique would be the noticeable exhales at the end of sentences just before the cut such as at 6:59, its somewhat distracting and takes me out of the flow of the video. Otherwise great.
Also another point for basic bowmen, they counter skirmishers, which as I understand it, means that they *counter levies* on top of everything else, just insane.
Great video.
Quite informative, great job
Thanks for this analysis! Agreed the Xbows are the best.
A few things I think that you left out --
- Buildings are not created equal. You can get more bonuses for Archers than for other MaA types. And Forest is plentiful. e.g. my Crossbows are doing 300 damage (and could be higher if I used my duchy building for an Archery Ground instead of a Military Academy). Where as Heavy Infantry wants ... farmland for its best buildings.
- Accolades are not created equal. Crossbows (and Archers) benefit from _both_ the Crossbow and Archer accolade, and you can stack both if you have a knight with at least 20 xp in Hastiluder: Bow. This gets you a whopping +16 regiment size for each regiment you have.
- Cost reductions make everything way cheaper in mid game, especially Dread based cost reductions, e.g. I had 40,000 crossbows that cost me 1.1 gold / month when raised
- You don't need siege if you have workshops. And workshops buff Archers. That means more crossbows.
- Combat width means you want high quality troops, since the larger army gets a damage penalty
- Knights are insanely valuable since they only take 1 combat width and thus are always present in combat
- I'm not sure terrain bonuses matter past the very early game. I don't know that they scale based off buildings, which means they get washed out entirely
- Countering only works if someone has more units than you do -- this means if you have more units than they do, _they cannot counter you_ effectively
- Crossbows counter Heavy Infantry _and_ Heavy Cavalry _and_ Horse Archers
- Thanks to Accolades, Crossbows will _always outnumber_ their opponent. No other MaA type double-dips in Accolades.
I haven't tested this in game, but from mathing it out, I'm pretty sure that even an optimal anti-crossbow army of the best light cav (which counters archers) -- Chasseurs -- with the best buildings and equivalent knights -- fighting on plains -- would lose to the best crossbow army because there are more crossbows, so aren't countered effectively, and they have better buildings so do more damage (and have a higher base damage of 42 vs. 40 for Chasseurs). So even in the worst conditions, Crossbows win. And Chasseurs require a specific Empire, and most Light Cav is far worse than Chasseurs.
Yes. I agree with everything here.
Just some things to note.
Terrain is added before buffs are applied. So it is super valuable.
Combat width is great, but people over value it. It has diminishing returns.
So double troops make x0.75 damage.
You need infinitely more troops to get x0.5.
Finally, crossbows have a terrain penalty in flatland. So I think chassuers would win without accolades.
@@llosgfynydd9043 Good to know that terrain is added before % bonuses.
Is there a CK3 combat mod to easily test different comps? I am pretty sure, from my napkin math, that max upgraded crossbows would beat max upgraded chassuers, just because xbows have better accolades and buildings
Metsänvartija get only bonuses, no penalties. (Bonuses in winter, taiga and forrest)
And just on their own they have great stats for the cost.
Nice video bro. I got all your analysis of the money per enemy killed stuff. However I think this method of analyzing the power is largely defected since men at arms are limited by the total number of brigands not the overall cost/maintenance. Of course 500 cataphracts are gonna beat 500 crossbows at any terrain. It’s hard to understand why would anyone think bows are better than heavy cavs if money is not the only factor.
Yes. For some peeps money is no issue.
That said. If you are going off regiments. You can easily see the best just by multiplying the damage and toughness together for a rough guess of power.
I do need to mention that while there aren't any Oasis Persia, there ARE plenty in the Tarim Basin, where the Saka & Tocharians can use their Tarkhans
You're right.
I was being a tad dramatic.
Just found it funny how there is a whole stretch between the tarim basin and the Sahara where there isn't a single oasis tile at all.
@@llosgfynydd9043 THAT is very true. Not a single Oasis or Flood plain (Save Mesopotamia) anyware.
Love your approach, very informative and instructive.
To return the favour, as a native Dutch speaker:
'Goedendag' means 'Good day', as in, the salutation when you're leaving.
No, I don't think anybody knows who decided to call it that, and yes, as kids we all find it endlessly hilarious.
(And as an adult I still do :D )
The way to pronounce it is actually a lot closer to English than it seems at first;
You know how you say can 'wooden door' instead of 'wood door'?
it's literally that, 'gooden day'.
The A at the end is a 'soft' A, like in the English word Market
The G's are the tricky part.
You know how when some people say 'Loch Ness', the CH sounds soft an throaty and kind of like they're clearing their throat or about to cough up some slime?
That's the sound you're going for.
Yes, we know, our language sounds terrible, we think so too. :D
So to sum it all up, in my amateur version of a phonetic description:
"Chooden Dach"
ruclips.net/video/kCaRX9NtkVY/видео.html
About 10 seconds in you hear it correctly pronounced a bunch of times by two different people :)
I've googled Geodendag pronunciation since making this vid and upsetting the Dutch. :D
@@llosgfynydd9043I doubt you've upset that many of them; in my experience we usually think other people speaking our language are adorable and/or hopelessly optimistic.
For example; even most natives who haven't heard it before have trouble pronouncing my last name, and it's about as Dutch as it gets. (As far as I know, my family is entirely from here, at least for the last couple of hundred years.)
Did you straight up miss the Georgian heavy cav?I don't fully remember their name but I think they were G something uli
Great video otherwise though
I mentioned them in passing. :)
If I had more will I would have talked about them.
Perhaps a topic for anything vid.
arn't they the Tarrakan Heavy Cav?
@@aussiemilitant4486Georgian heavy cav is called Monaspa
After the new patch all i have are elephants buffed up by having indian perks(it gives 1000+ for one regiment if done correct ), horse archers from england and seige weapon
this was awesome and helpful
Glad you think so!
A lot of info in a good digestible form.
Honestly I don't even like CK3 that much, I just wanted to support you because you have a Welsh name. Dw i eisiau dysgu Cymraeg!
Aw. Diolch
I'm sure others have pointed this out but:
A severe lacking in this analysis is: how much can you boost each type of men-at-arms with Culture and Buildings? For example, I am now doing a heavy longbow run, but there are many more buildings for other types of units than bowman, and maybe more culture traditions, as I think I've maxed out my bow culture with Longbow, Adaptive Skirmisher, and Strength in Numbers. Also key is, many of these boosts are percentage-wise, so, for example, while I tried to build a strong skirmisher regiment, 300% of 10 is... 30. While 200% of 50 is 150. Huge differences.
Another significant factor almost totally ignored is that your # of men-at-arms is limited by technology. So, while in theory dozens of skirmishers might be stronger than heavy horse, you only have so many men-at-arms that your tech can field. So, arguably the most important question of: If money is no object, what's the strongest men-at-arms regiment you should field with limited numbers, is unanswered. I mean, I'm looking at 40K gold and +200/month, money is no object to me.
I like this video a lot but I think a follow-up where these types of things are considered is appropriate.
I'm pretty sure I covered it.
For most of the graphs.
If you add +100% to all the men at arms.
They all do better.
But the order is the same.
For example.
If you add +500% to the shomer and gendarme, the shomer are still on top in cheapest to win.
Great analysis, but looking over accolades was an oversight, especially for archers. They can double dip and get +12 size to their regiments, and +120% dmg after all other bonuses like buildings. This does not mention that archers get the highest bonus from terrain excluding wind furnaces at 480%.
Yes and yes.
Both true.
But I didn't want to pad this video anymore. :D
More deep dive analytics to come.
First time real equations gets their use for me since i finished school
As northman take some lands of khazaria and then, crete. You have varangian, huscarl, horse raiders and cataphracts. What else you need?
Maybe some welsh longbowmen
the unique light infantry that I think the Yemini area and one or two north african cultures get are insanely OP. I think they are called Abdur or something weird like that. They counter two types of units and are dirt cheap.
best strat i found so far:
pick abbasid, take baghdad + cairo with their op floodplains. mubarizun + camel building for op knights and conquer the 4 corners of the earth. you have op development, op knights, no weakness insane MAA unit with the op floodplain building and you can do it all from the start of the game
this makes me wish we had a mod for CK3 that lets us play out our battles in Field of Glory 2 Medieval
I remember there IS a mod that puts your battles in Mount and Blade: Bannerlord.
My biggest takeaway from this video is there are a few more cultures I need to play longer games in to mess around with new troops!
I'm here specifically because I keep getting chewed up by Mubarizun. I've never lost so many troops before.
I'm adamant it's why all the crusaders get pounded
He made one banger of a video and then dipped 👀
Nah. It's just work getting in the way. :(
@@llosgfynydd9043 waiting for more!!
Gimmie a week-ish
goededag translates to good day in dutch, meaning they were called the good day militia
Doesn't sound like a good day when you are on the receiving end
I got to say, if you playing as a norse and starting in tribal era, varangian vet's are THE BEST troops in a game untill you unlock xbow men.
You do not have to worry about gold whatsoever in tribal era. It is extremely OP. Theres absolutely nothing that can stop you if your army consists of couple of stacks of VV's and dozen of knights.
You keep raiding, stackwhiping armies, looting gold/prestige and get level 2 warcamps in each of your counties. In fact, you should get level 2 building in every available slot you have before you transition to feudal because these level 2 tribal buildings will turn into level 2 feudal buildings and if you are lucky enough you save tons of gold!
Anyway, i usually roll with 2 to 4 stacks of VV's, add siege when available, next unit i will be adding is xbow men in late game because these guys happen to be units you can buff up with buildings way more then any melee unit. Their damage and toughness surpasses VV's and they are more numerous!
Final army composition: 2stacks of VV's, 3stacks of xbow's, 2stacks of heavy cav, (or 1 heavy, one light cav) 2 stacks of siege.
These troops buffed up to max with proper buildings + buffs from acclaimed knights will wipe stacks of troops that are like 100 times larger than them! I literally wiped a crusader army with over 100k troops with my stack of MAA 16k strong, taking like no casulties at all! It is quite rare for you to catch that big stacks in a game to begin with because most of the time troops are spread out to avoid atrition and your troops will murder smaller stacks of troops so fast that they dont even have time to gather up!
Then again, importance of knights cannot be underestimated, having ''only the strong'' tradition and couple of military academies will make these guys kiling machines!
goedendag, or goodendagh
Good information, tho I think value per gold is not relevant in the late game. Your income eventually becomes so big that the limiting factor is getting maximum value per stack regardless of the cost.
I can’t imagine it wouldn’t be heavy cav. Especially if you have farmland.
Personally I prefer light infantry and light cavalry in the early game, as it opens winning by attrition, on top of countering both archer and heavy infantry.