Close call on the road...What can we learn?
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- Опубликовано: 19 мар 2020
- Being seen at intersections is huge but sometimes in spite of our best efforts, a driver pulls out in front of us. Let's analyze this MCrider member's ride.
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Do you think it would have been beneficial after a situation like this to just pull over and take a break to maybe calm yourself down and reflect on what just happened. I tend to pull over after something like this so that I can get my mind right rather than continuing down the road still thinking about this. It's almost borderline day dreaming in my opinion. Not everybody thinks like I do some people can just let it go but I think this would have me rattled for a minute.
Also, no good coming to a complete stop once that truck stopped.
I think that may have to do with being in the wrong gear. At some point it is easier and safer to come to a complete stop rather than risk stalling the engine. I agree though it is not good.
On the subject of what’s behind you, you can ingrain the habit of checking the mirrors every time you roll off the throttle or your hand reaches for the brake lever. I incorporate it into my regular braking practice.
I take a different approach. I like to know what is in my 6 o´clock and regularly scan my mirrors. It has an effect on my strategy and tactics. When avoiding to get rear ended is an issue, the proper action in this situation might have been to try and go around behind the truck. Of course honking the horn and make him stop would be detrimental for such plan.
Alan Miller yes sir! I look behind me every time I slow down.
I concentrate on the high risk, drivers crossing your path or turning left in front and you hitting them, is the death trap... getting rear ended isn't usually what will kill you...
Don't sacrifice your ride looking behind when what is going to kill you is coming front the front and sides...
I do that EVERY TIME I am in the "cage", why would I NOT do it when on 2 wheels?
On careful review, I see there were actually two points at which John was completely hidden to the truck driver. As John crossed the pedestrian crossing (stop Kevin's video at 11:38), two dark coloured cars are turning right into a side street. At that point the truck driver could well have been having his/her first look right to check for oncoming traffic, but at that point John would have been hidden behind the two cars and so would have been invisible to the driver. That's the first hole in 'the block of cheese'.
Then, much closer to the incident (11:44) , again as you correctly point out the white Volvo completely hides John (the second hole in the block of cheese is now lined up).
Also, from John's perspective, at 11:39) the dark coloured truck had a background of dark shaded light from the large tree behind it, making it difficult to see at a glance (the third hole in the cheese now aligned with holes one and two). Note how the white truck on John's right is much easier to see at a glance than the dark one on his left.
In the aviation industry, they will use the analogy of holes in a block of Swiss cheese. They say any incident is ultimately an unfortunate cascade of seemingly unrelated small events (and that's what happened to John), each one on it's own is not that significant, dangerous or even comes into our consciousness, but when followed by others, or where checks and balances fail or are not performed, then an incident is the result. They use the analogy of the holes in that large block of Swiss cheese magically 'lining up' to allow each of the contributing events of the resulting incident to pass right through it to the 'Incident' on the other side of the block of cheese.
I totally agree with going for the brakes first. Using the horn wastes precious braking distance that could mean the difference between 'Phew, that was close' and six months in hospital.
And to give the truck driver their due, they did come to a complete stop - a sign of a considerate driver. How often have you had drivers take advantage of the fact you are coming to a stop, and simply accelerate across your bows through the intersection and away, flipping you the middle finger salute, and leaving you at the potential risk of a rear-ender.
Kudos to John for both coming out unscathed and for sharing this for us to analyse. Thankyou.
Highly commend the rider on his driving skills. Not speeding, not distracted, not lane weaving, and great situational awareness.
I want to follow up here and say how good of a job I think John really did in this situation.
We can debate horn VS brakes all day but the thing that stands out to me is the reaction time it took TO DO SOMETHING.
It was a split second.
This is not because John has cat-like reflexes...it was because he was riding in the moment. He was prepared. He had already spotted the danger and was ready for it.
It didn't happen by accident at this intersection, he had already demonstrated his awareness on the intersections before this one.
So, my hats off to John!!! Good job brother!
We have a great conversation going on the forums about this video. John is a member there, you can find him by his forum name @Johnny_Z so if you haven't joined...do so. Say hi to Johnny_Z and tell him in virtual person how well you think he did.
Learn more about membership at www.MCrider.com/support
See you on the forums!
Kevin
One of the skills in my riding course here in Ontario, Canada was the emergency stop and immediately go! We had to get up to speed, 30MPH, and wait for the instructor to give a signal to emergency brake, gear down to first, then pull off quickly as if we were avoiding a rear secondary collision. That proved to be a very valuable lesson for me as I had to use that skill riding my first bike home 50 ft from my house. The car driver had a clear view, but chose to go anyway. No time for a horn.
Thanks for the weekly tips.
An option would have been to abort the stop once it became apparent that the SUV was stopping and carry on through. Avoids the rear-end risk, and means he wouldn't have had to go all the way down to first. Still, he avoided the primary hazard, which is the main thing.
Grimbeard I would have to disagree. I always practice down shifting when emergency breaking. Also I always look behind me every time I slow down. Also the truck could have seen him stopping and decide to go ahead and go to move out of the way. After stopping and making sure no one is behind me I also would have let the truck go first not trusting that they will wait for me to go. Also the truck was blocking a lane and was in danger of being hit by cars rounding the corner.
I agree completely. Once the SUV was stopping, I would have aborted the stop and kept going. There was no reason to come to a complete stop and then sit there for 10 seconds! He did a great job actually stopping but I (like you) think it was unnecessary.
@@robertmann6890 Are you sure that after all that "processing" with the downshifting etc that you are actually stopping as soon as possible? Maybe try it both ways and see which one yields the shortest stopping distance.
@@jeep2liberty downshifting does enough braking to handle your back wheels braking allotment.... so you can concentrate on emergency braking with the front... It works quite well and has saved my bacon a few times... and never stall out my bike trying to start in 3rd to boot.
I agree
Also want to thank you for bringing me up to the next level of observing blind spots from THEIR point of view. THAT is the take away for me from this, your video instruction.
Glad you enjoyed it!
If you get rattled, pull over and get refocused.
I've done this after a close call. Allows me to find my focused spot again so that I'm not reliving that close call while another may be getting ready to happen. Roads like the one in this video are minefields of potential disasters. Thanks for the video and thorough dissection of the incident.
Instead of getting on the horn, let's get on the brakes! The horn "MAY" keep the truck from pulling out but stopping will "guarantee" you don't hit the truck! I prefer "guarantees" to "maybes"!
The driver of that truck MAY have been cranking on the stereo and at that distance the bike horn (unless the bike had an air horn) would have been inaudible, so the brakes would be the ONLY option!
Depend on the traffic behind him, and when we gona stop for drivers like this, we learn them, that they get away with it.
I definitely tend to believe that most people will not hear the horn due to talking on the phone, listening to music etc. That doesn't mean I won't use the horn I just don't trust the horn as much as I trust my brakes.
Brakes first for sure, I also like to do a little swerve to get out of a blind spot and/or to have a little motion to get past inattentional blindness to get other motorists attention. Thanks for sharing the video, even a great rider can do something wrong in the heat of the moment.
Pickups on both sides. That's really running the gauntlet !
I was coming up on a v-shaped intersection and this police car was at the stop on my left. Policeman or not , i swung off to the right side of my lane and sure enough he pulled out in front of me. We both braked and avoided an accident , and i continued on. He caught up with me at the next stop light and apologized . He said I was in the blind spot of the window post between the front and rear door of his car . I thanked him for the explanation. Just goes to show , that people that drive more than most of any of us , can't always avoid a blind spot. Always drive defensibly . Love and respect your channel. thank you. bill
Looks like he was using good traffic lane position to keep himself visible to other drivers to me. I am convinced that Hi-Vis gear helped in this situation as the truck driver stopped as soon as they saw the motor cycle. All black gear would have made the motorcyclist blend in to their soundings. I wear it and am quite sure that other drivers see me sooner sense I changed to Hi-Vis gear.
Hi vis gear all the way. My wife bought me a HiVis jacket several years ago and I saw an immediate difference. She even met me on the road one day and said she saw me a lot sooner than normal. She is a rider as well.
Doug Cultra
Same here mate I wear a hi vis, vest over my jacket, I can think of a number of times where, I’m not sure if drivers would have seen me if I was wearing my black jacket and no hivis.
I'm right there with James H. My wife was driving home from work (27 miles), so I donned my Hi-Vis and left home driving towards her office. Just to surprise her along the way, make a u-turn and follow her home as an excuse to go for a ride on the bike. At home she said as soon as she saw a bike headlite and the jacket approaching she knew it was me. Darn it!
When I see a "cool" guy wearing black gear from helmut to boots and riding an all flat black bike, I just wonder why. (All that black coolness can easily get him killed.) Then he's pissed when a driver doesn't see him. I hope this "all black" fad wears off when riders see fatalities increasing because of it. How arrogant to expect others to see them when they have made themselves as invisible as possible. Then bypass the "ignition/headlite on" feature (illegal in my state) and replace tailite with a tiny one. For more coolness remove the front brake stoplite switch so no one behind knows your slowing if just using the front brake.
I am a new rider and I am just hearing how not to get squashed !!! Many Thanks !!!!!!🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
I would probably have gone to the brakes first, but I might have hit the horn as well
John, thanks for sharing. I agree with Kevin on braking first. You did a great job getting the motorcycle stopped without dropping it. My philosopy is to ride like you are invisible to all drivers, and I encourage my wife to take the same approach. As far as lane position, I would have been in the same lane you were, in that environment. Had you been in the far right lane and the white truck not spotted you, there would have been no buffer once the driver began pulling out. Of course, on the highway, stay right unless passing is the law in most, if not all states. As far as anger management goes, I can honestly say that in the fifty years that I have been riding, I have "not been seen" by drivers dozens of times, regardless of the gear, and I wear high visibility gear. Everyone makes mistakes, and losing your cool is the absolute last thing one needs to do at that point. I have never had a driver pull out in front of me deliberately. When one does, I focus on handling the situation first, then wave at the driver with all five digits extended in order to alleviate any tension that might make the situation worse. If you don't expect drivers to pull out in front of you, and in response, blow up like a powder keg, or retaliate, you don't need to be on a motorcycle. Once again, John, great job!
Gary Broyles absolutely agree!...I avoid the right lane in this situation exactly why you stated. Even if I’m in a car, I use it as a merging lane from a turn or before a turn.
I've vacationed in that area. Very beautiful part of Florida. If I knew that the right hand lane was empty I believe I would have gotten over. Exit strategy is very important to keep in mind. Great teaching tool!
In a situation like this I'd probably never used the horn at all. When the situation occurs, there's no time for using a horn, you need to break and/or evade. And after the situation is resolved, there's usually no point in beeping other than letting your frustration out. Might be a good idea to train emergency breaking AND using horn at the same time.
Also good practice when stopping like this is to shift in-between the lanes to reduce the chance of being rear ended. And make sure to cover your brakes when you approach intersections or other potentially dangerous situation. It saves a lot of reaction time.
Other than that this rider shows good road strategy and awareness and it paid him off in the end.
Stay safe.
First day of spring, still a month away from riding season here (CDN) but yesterday I signed up for a Motorcycle Experienced Rider Program, bought a new bike in January, have not done any serious riding in more than five years so I know I'm due for a refresher, I plan to practice until then using MCRider Field Guide, but I believe it is important to have someone watch me and help me identify any bad habits I may have adopted over the years, thanks Kevin, you have help me to realize that to be safe on the road, riding is continuous learning program to better oneself.
ABS brakes? They have been a life-saver for me, almost literally. One more unsolicited piece of advice - never be in a hurry to get anywhere. Good luck and welcome back to the road!
Although the horn seemed to help alert the truck driver, I would have gone straight to the brakes. Purely by habit or instinct. Down shifting is second and if I could find the horn then I’d let the driver know I was there. Turned out well and I’m sure the truck driver felt pretty badly and will most likely be more aware in the future. (Hopefully)
this is usually my approach after similar things happen, I try to look like a... martyr in that driver's eyes so he will remember that he almost killed someone and hopefully will never put himself in a situation where a person that he almost killed is looking him in the eyes.
I believe it works better than yelling.
I agree that one should avoid relying too much on the horn. It does not guarantee the errant motorist will stop.
William Stephens Agreed 👍🏻 For me it’s automatic to down shift when emergency breaking. Also looking behind me briefly.
Good video and learning session. Thanks 🇨🇦👍
This is excellent and some very good points being made. I love how thorough you are with thinking of every important factor that needs to be considered for optimal safety!
A lot of tombstones should say "Yeah but I honked my horn first"
I think this rider did an excellent job!
He was aware of surroundings, and stopped in time.
Something I failed to do once, learned my lesson.
We can post situation analyze, but he did very will indeed!
I agree Mike
Thanks Kevin...and thank you John...I appreciate any chance to learn just a little more on how to be safer!
Great job dissecting of all the subtle details of this video that could easily go unnoticed in a quick "view & move on to the next video" approach we typically use when watching RUclips. Well done Kevin & good on John for being a conscientious motorcycle rider!
Kevin this is possibly the best incident video I have seen. This incident incorporates many riding strategies from a rider perspective and a motorist awareness perspective. Thanks for the expert analysis demonstrating the many factors which allowed this incident to occur. We as riders must be able to see these factors and plan ahead in case the situation arises.
Watching your weekly safe riding reviews have made me much more aware of my surroundings. Good to learn something new each and every week!!
Great analysis especially about blind spots.. I was thinking about the white car from the start.. I would probably break and honk together.. so that I make the car behind me alert .. something needs his attention
Excellent analysis of the video, especially how the white SUV likely blinded the driver to the bike. John is cautious and cool-headed rider. A helpful video. Thank you.
Thanks for having the courage to share John. It's easy for others to offer up their opinions and credit to you for being focused on what matters - helping others to improve.
Overall great job John 👍🏻 I do agree that I would have went to the breaks first and then the horn. More important for me to be able to stop than the truck. One habit I have developed is to look behind me every time I slow down or hit my breaks. I do believe the white car was blocking the view of the truck. There was also room to let off the breaks and swerve into the other lane if necessary. I have had to use this technique before, because of a car coming up behind me too quickly to stop. I had to release my breaks hit the throttle and swerve around the car in front of me. When I took the basic rider course I remember thinking. I hope I never have to use this skill on the road. Practice your skills Ladies and Gentlemen. It might save your life one day like it did for me.
This is SO helpful! For me, getting to the brakes would be the first move, and for one main reason: I practice braking but do not practice finding the horn! It would take me so long to blast the horn that it would foreclose on other options. Having said that, the horn on my 2018 Goldwing sounds like a semi, which I love!
Bruce B. Harrison Definitely become more familiar with your controls. It will help you tremendously. McRider actually had a video a couple weeks ago about people with new bikes being more likely to crash due to distracted driving. Meaning the person riding the motorcycle was looking for his controls and crashed as a result.
The fact that John was riding at a responsible speed and aware of his surroundings is the main factor in avoiding this crash. Glad to see him ride away from this incident.
I guess you missed the SPEED LIMIT 35 sign that he passed, and his speedo mostly hovering around 45MPH, including going thru intersections.
When you are in a residential neighborhood people do not expect cars to be coming fast. When they look before pulling out (like the truck) they do not look further down the street, and if they do see you 100 yards away they are not going to sit there to estimate your speed - if they have 100 yards, they are going.
When you see multiple cars and trucks and bicycles on cross streets waiting to pull you
then you need to assume you are invisible and slow down.. not just look at them and maintain 10mph over the posted speed limit....
Thank you - great analysis
I've had this situation quite a few times. Before I wore hi-vis items the drivers would almost always keep going. I would hit my brakes, sometimes cracking my throttle to make my pipes roar to display my mood. I now wear the hi-vis helmet, vest, and jacket combo which has an interesting result. Fewer drivers pull out in front of me which is nice. I also move around my lane positions as I'm scanning for vehicles looking to pull out and trying to find a spot that I am in their possible line of sight. The new issue is when people do pull out in front of me, they see me last minute and slam on their brakes. I of course have slowed down myself as I don't rely on their choices and reactions to keep me safe. The drivers seem to get confused over what to do next in their anxiety and sometimes do this stop/go thing because I have also slowed down. They can't seem to know what is best; to keep going or to wait for me to slowly go past. This means that I always slowly go past as this unpredictable and anxiety driven behaviour that I now see from what appears to be already impulsive and aggressive drivers is more problematic than when they never saw me at all lol. I used to be an aggressive driver about a decade ago and I was always just so terribly anxious. I found myself easily frustrated by traffic situations and yet I was always in them. (Go figure lol.) I guess that gives me some patience with it all now as I realize that it's a mad cycle to get caught up in - if I respond in an anxious manner, then I am now that "aggressive" driver. We all have that fight or flight response somewhere. Anywho, I'm just rambling now lol. Overall, the hi-vis is very awesome and especially so on the freeway, that is the only area that I have noticed a con which is/was unexpected.
Hi Vis is great but at a distance I don't think it compares to having your headlight on.. I have some reflective tape on my riding gear.. I noticed when I use a flash light when my power is out it really reflects brightly from where it is hanging..
The part I like the most is how composed this rider was. A cool head responds better than an agresive one!😎
If I already came to a stop, I usally wave unsure drivers through. That clears my path and I do not have to worry whether they decide to go while I am in front of them or not.
@@maxlutz3674 I do the same thing most of the time. I have made a few exceptions when traffic is coming up quickly behind me and drivers would notice the stopped vehicle before a stopped motorcycle. At that point I try to find my safest option to avoid all issues. One time I even turned into a parking lot that I had no reason to other than to get off the road.
Hi Sam Dye. One thing you can do in the situation you're describing is to also swerve to the lane position furthest from the driver. This action can clearly communicate to them that you intend to continue down the road and that they should wait until you're beyond them. Also if you acknowledge that they have slowed or stopped as if thanking them and then accelerate gently rather than just proceeding slowly, this can also communicate your intent to continue down the road. Finally one or maybe two quick taps on the horn can also let you communicate your intent. It's when both operators slow or nearly stop waiting to see what the other one is doing that the situation you're describing transpires. It's like I've often thought to myself overly cautious drivers/riders can be as big a problem as those who are overly aggressive. Confidence is the key, clearly communicate your own intent, while remaining cautious about the intents and actions of others on the road. If a situation presents itself that where you feel the need to slow, only slow enough to be safe, not so much that it can be mistaken for an intent on your part to allow them to continue on their way. And really that's a judgement call every time. I hope that helps out.
You mentioned the importance of using your mirrors. My mirror saved my life. I'm a new rider just since last summer. Bought my bike in August last year. I was on a 2-lane road, needing to turn left. I turned on my signal and used my hand signal. The car behind me backed off. There may have been two cars, I'm not sure. I was ready to turn left when I looked in my left mirror and saw a truck come barreling up in the oncoming lane, passing the car(s) behind me and myself. He was going at least 55-60 MPH. Had I not looked in that mirror, I would have made my left turn right in front of him. That mirror saved my bacon!! Thank you for your videos!
Thanks John for sharing. Looks like you are a thoughtful rider and like all of us there is room for improving our craft and I trust you take all contructive comments as such. A great video with a good outcome.
Here in Phoenix, I see lots of car drivers using the horn rather than their brakes and it looks like that may have been the case here. Most newer cars and trucks are practically sound proof and have premium stereo systems, so the horn is less effective than it once was. Brakes and your own awareness are within your control.
Good point, showing the blind spots that both truck drivers had to deal with. The more we keep that in mind the more we will be prepared when someone pulls out in front of us,and they will.
Great video to learn from - thank you.
Always had the habit of trying to keep track of who is behind and beside me at all times. In a situation like this one, I would always be on the brake.
Thank you for another good lesson.
Also, I always find down shifting into 1st gear simultaneously while applying emergency braking is very effective and a great skill to practice. And the bike will click into 1st gear much easier while it's still rolling and not already stopped.
thanks Kevin, another good one. I would have swerved right at 3:31 on his video and at the same time slowed down. Truck was visible and moving forward from 3:30 to 3:33 on his video. Most often just swerving causes vehicles to stop immediately, for me. It catches their awareness from their peripheral vision, whether looking at me or not they see me coming and looking like I'm greatly increasing my speed, when actually I'm slowing down. I would also be concerned about the White truck on the right, so I'd definitely be braking, since swerving toward the white truck would not have the same effect on that driver as it would on the left one. As I've mentioned before, swerving away gives the illusion I'm going faster since we judge speed of approaching vehicles on how quickly they are moving to the side as they approach, since they're not coming straight at us.
Very good
As you can tell in the comments
You bring awareness that we the riders can actually use everyday GOOD JOB !
Makes my tummy flip - whenever anyone even looks like they are not stopping, or just wasn't paying attention - or they "appear" to be rolling out from a side street (or driveway) before I have passed by them. Don't recall ever using the horn. Just get stopped ASAP (keeping in mind what's going on behind me) - I never get angry. Always glad a bigger problem was avoided.
Wonderful analysis and explanation - Looked like a "California Stop" to me.... (I mean the brown truck of course)….
It seems to me that the rider expected the truck to stop when he/she heard the horn, an assumption I don't recommend; that rider needs to start practicing emergency stops asap, maybe there are other pov's, but that front tire should have ended pointing straight forward, and ready to roll on quickly, also as you mentioned, downshifting to 1st gear is a must. And last, it seems to me that when the rider was going at about 18 mph, he knew the truck had stopped, he knew there was no one else on the intersection and he knew there was no one behind, so I would have opted to roll on and not make a full stop and stop a bit farther ahead to catch my breath if needed. What do you think ?
I was taught to “cover the controls “ in traffic. My hand covers the brake, foot ready to hit the rear brake. Seconds count when quick response is needed.
Winter here in Canada, lol. Just wanted to reiterate that the amount of people in vehicles on their phones is phenomenal. Accentuated probably because I sit higher and see it more. Best advice, ride as if no one sees you and ride defensively. Great breakdown of the video. Thanks you.
Shift down one gear gives you a lot of breaking. It also give you the possibility to speed up fast and swerve around the danger.
Make sure you have an escape route by knowing whats around you.
I like to make it a sport to not brake at all before entering a corner, just anticipation.
Seems like he's not having any lights on. Always drive with lights on even in daytime.
Keep up the good videos.
I agree with correct braking being the priority. And the horn did serve a great benefit here in 3 ways. It alerted the driver that was pulling out, #2 it alerted the driver of the white truck and #3 it may well have alerted traffic behind John (don't know for sure if anyone was behind him). Good job on the brakes btw and kudos for riding aware. Downshifting in an emergency stop is something I need to address myself. Thank you for this lesson today.
I think the observation that the approaching white vehicle could create a blind spot for a driver at an intersection ahead (in this case the truck!) suggests the type of tactical awareness needed! Thanks again for the scenario and analysis!
If someone's crossing in front of me, my first reaction is to get on both brakes and the shifter. The horn might be a useful idea, but I'm likely too busy thinking about escape routes and maintaining traction to use it. About the only time my horn gets used is people drifting into my lane when I'm passing (while also getting on the brake) or asleep at the light, and pre-ride check.
Thanks for the Video. I’m a new Rider but situational awareness is in my DNA as I’ve driven 60’ Articulated Transit Buses in British Columbia for years. Other drivers and pedestrians don’t see Buses either. Besides inattention the Brain does fill in the visual space with what it thinks you need if scanning too fast. I can sense that a vehicle is going to do something potentially hazardous before hand,( usually ), not because of ESP but that so many incidents have occurred in front of me that I see the building blocks of disaster that might occur. As for MC breaking I practise emergency stopping every time I leave the driveway because I’m very new to this lifestyle. Also, in our MSA test we emergency stop and gear down leaving our feet on the pegs and take off again in first gear. It’s ingrained very well thankfully.
When I am around traffic like in this video, I have actually trained myself to ride with my thumb covering the horn.
Just like covering your brakes, this reduces the time to get the horn going.
Because my thumb is already there, I often hit the horn AND start the braking almost simultaneously.
I was riding in the middle lane next to a left lane full of stopped cars.
A SUV suddenly decided to jump out of the left lane just as I was about at her rear bumper. The horn immediately sounded (she could not have seen me except in the mirror), and because I sounded the horn so fast, she stopped. Her front bumper bumped by saddle bag and pushed the back of my bike over about a foot.
It was very busy rush hour traffic, and right there, there is no place to stop.
IF I had not blasted the horn SO fast, she would have knocked me over and thrown me in the middle of traffic, and I shutter to think what would have happened after that..
$150 later replacing the saddle bag etc, but I was alive.
There was no place to stop and get her info, but I got caught at the light just 150 feet later, she pulled out and as the light turned green, she yelled that she was sorry!
So I got out for $150 instead of a bunch of hospital Bill's (or worse) and a destroyed bike..
Great advices
in my opinion brakes should be an instinct reaction, that driver could have had music up real loud or been impaired some other way, so self preservation is paramount, just sayin
Braking doesn't necessarily mean 'brakes', often better to downshift one or two gears and use the engine to brake.
Apply brakes, check mirrors for traffic behind you as well, downshift, divert for either the driver pulling out or an unaware driver behind you. Glad to see I was on track as I typed my response before hearing your breakdown. Practice practice practice.The horn on a m/c is not very useful for getting the attention of a driver imho. If you get rattled, pull over and get refocused.
Kevin, I am glad you are able to do both emergency stop and downshift. My priority is getting stopped, but I do agree it would be better to be in 1st gear after stopping. I would suggest to you that down shifting while emergency braking decreases the margin of safety. The human brain can only process so much at one time. If anyone can truly do this without compromising the margin for safety, my hat is off to you and you are a better rider than I.
Another thing that isn't prevalent in this video is the sun restricting / affecting other drivers ability to see you on a bike. Something to also consider when out for a ride.
Many have commented how these videos help with good road technique while driving a car / truck etc. Indeed they do, and when I am in a car, it helps me think about and be more aware of bikes on the road!! GOOD STUFF BROTHER!!
Brakes first, then possibly swerve, depending if the truck had continued through the intersection. Rarely use the horn since I don't have confidence that drivers can hear it. Next parking lot practice: downshifting to first during emergency stop! Excellent video and analysis, and a lot of good comments!
I also see at that first intersection where drivers going his direction were turning left and another on his right turning right, he moved lane position from the left 1/3rd of the lane to the right, giving himself a better sight to the road on his left and optimizing the opportunity for a car approaching from there to see him.
Good lesson for me thanks for this video
Excellent observations and assessments, Kevin. Thank you for sharing.
As for the horn or brakes first, I'd like to say brakes first, but some habits are hard to break. To me, the biggest learning opportunity was lack of downshifting. As you imply, this makes the rider a sitting duck in that lane, as he had probably released his brake to focus on downshifting, thereby providing no warning to the vehicles behind him.
I think you did a good analysis of this incident Kevin. And I'd like to thank you for your comments about the rev bombing we see many riders resort to. Just today I had a similar incident on my way home from the store. Although the driver didn't pull out, I saw that his attention was focused to his right as I was approaching from his left. As a precaution I gave a couple quick taps to my horn and immediately his head snapped in my direction with a very surprised look on his face. That expression tells me that he thought the area behind the car in front of me was clear and that he was about to head out into a turn that would have been either right before me or possibly into me. I was maybe two blocks from home and this is an area that I try to be extra diligent about seeing what's actually there instead of letting my mind fill in the blanks with what's usually there. And I'm glad I did so today especially as there was a motorcycle officer parked on the sidewalk behind a block wall watching to see the everyone was coming to a complete stop at the corner I turn on to get home. It's so easy to become complacent about what we think should be in any given spot.
Two things that were not covered in your review that I noticed were the two escape paths that were available to John in this situation. First, if the lane was clear John may have chosen to swerve into the right hand lane to give the truck driver more room to stop his vehicle and then potentially have not felt it as necessary to come to a complete stop as has been mentioned. Secondly he did have the option of swerving to the left and behind the truck had that driver not reacted well to the situation. This option of course would mean that he would then be in the lanes of oncoming traffic which would have presented their own challenges. But assessing swerve options can play a vital role in finding a solution quickly to the everyday hazards that traffic can present.
Anyways, thanks again for your analysis of this video, keep up the good work Kevin. You rock man.
Nice work John. The horn may have had an effect on both trucks stopping or staying stopped. The brakes would have had a similar result, in that John would have stopped sooner, in time for either truck, but, we dont know what's behind him. Thanks for sharing the experience, it is a win when you can ride away! Nice reminder Kevin on the downshifting advice.
Brake first, honk later. Don't stop in front of the truck in case the guy is a nutjob and decides to run you over.
No doubt! Lol!
We were taught in the rider training course as you brake, if just to slow down or in a panic, gear down, BECAUSE the next hazard may be behind you.
Not sure what I would done, but would be hoping the learned reflexes would have kicked in to avoid this exact situation.
Good job on Johnny_Z for showing us a multiple learning moment.
Swerving is generally better than stopping in most cases.
@@jameshuggins4300 in this instant, the only swerve is to the right, and that is the direction of the trucks travel, so if he doesn't stop, you are toast...
Stopping is the only defense... or stopping until the hazard has cleared, once the truck stopped he had no reason to complete the stop
On city streets like that with lots of entry points from side to side I like to do a little weaving in my lane to increase my visibility to other drivers
i just wonder how different the analysis would have been if we saw Johns mirrors. Based on the vehicles that went by he likely had traffic behind him, but once the risk is past I would not and do not come to a complete stop. But kudos to John regardless he avoided a crash! He had a great situational awareness. Ride like everyone is trying to kill you. Thanks for sharing
Eilean Donan castle.
Your videos are very useful.
I've had similar incidents like this, I always try to cover the brake at these junctions and always when passing parked cars in case one pulls out. I seem to be always covering my brakes. Engine braking is helpful in stopping.
I learnt early on in biking if I go for the horn I found I usually hit the indicator which is no use at all and prevents you slowing a lot quicker. If you're going to have an accident make it a slow one.
Never had a serious crash, only one incident in about about 30 years was one guy running in the back of me at 5 mph at a mini roundabout because he assumed I was going on but a car was coming round which I guess he couldn't see from his position. Bumped me forward slightly and bent the rear mudguard which he paid for a replacement, no problem. I didn't rip him off either with bike shop fees, I replaced it myself.
Good video good video thank you for sharing
On a road like this I would be riding in the L1 position in the right lane. You give yourself the best angle to be seen my oncoming left turners and in L1 provide decent visibility to those looking to turn right.
I'm glad everyone came out safe on this indecent... I think that if I was the rider, once I seen the truck come to a stop, I would have rolled back on the throttle to keep anything from happening behind me. I try to never stop in the middle of the road.
Good point i hadn’t noticed until you pointed it out about the blind spot due to the white vehicle. I was thinking how did this person in the truck not see this motorcycle?! I know there are a lot of bad drivers out there but unfortunately we are not easy to see at times, that’s why I enjoy watching your videos Kevin, thanks!
Two observations: 1. The posted speed limit was 35.(at 3.12), He was going 40-42. 2. I think he should have been in the right lane, especially if that's the law where he is. Thanks!
Squid move as to being run over from behind. I shivered 🤍
I refuse to second guess or be Monday morning quarterback. I believe and it shows he is wearing proper riding gear, seems to me he is following "SIPDE" very closely. So he did very well under circumstance & avoided collision. Now as far as being in first gear Mr. MCrider you are spot on👍
I think that none of us in the peanut gallery need to be Monday morning quarterbacks. I think that Kevin did the summary well and left little to say. As far as Kevin running play by play, that’s the point of the entire channel. I don’t think it is reviewing to criticize John’s skills as much as show another situation any of us could find ourselves in and offer plans we can take away and put in our own tool bags. That’s really the name of the game for anyone here is to not look at a rider and say they are wrong but to look at the tape and figure out how to move forward.
@@josh8494 I salute Kevin for having such a educational (classroom) channel for free. I believe it is "patriotic" of him & I tip my hat....
This "here" is our comment section, so my opinion is not going to second guess John, he had to make that split second decision & did well.
Talking about it is one thing but being there in that moment is another. Cheers
Mohan Arneja, well said. I may have misunderstood your comment. The clarification is appreciated and I am 100% in agreement. I know I’ve made worse emergency decisions on a motorcycle in my many years of riding and that is why I continue to return to Kevin’s channel, to improve my own skills and get practice advice. Thanks for the response and stay safe out there.
hit the gas +flip truck the 1 finger salute as you whiz past his front bumper!!
MCrider, thanks again for a great video, I glanced at several of the postings and I didn't see this mentioned "lane position" from what I could tell John was staying in the middle and towards the left side of the lane he was in, and as you've mentioned before in several of your videos lane positioning is also crucial part to road safety. In my humble opinion if he would have been towards right side of the lane several of the blind spots would have not happened. I contiuesly change my lane position to give me the best view ahead, because in doing this also allows others to see me better as well. I don't really agree with saying there is a debate on horn or brakes first, as a responsible bike rider my job is to do my best in keeping it under control, ruber side down and me up right. I very seldom use my horn because in many cases it is seen as an act of aggression on the person part who is blowing the horn which in itself bring on a host of other possible problems. So, I stand firm on he should have used the brakes, downshifting and in doing so would have prevent being stopped, unable to go in the middle of a busy street, he actually put himself and the driver of the other vehicle in worse position that could have cause even a more dangerous situation resulting in a much more serious accident. He was lucky that there wasn't more traffic on the road when this happened. Case in point we all know when there a situation in the middle of the road everybody starts to look at what's going on instead of just staying focused on getting down the road, I use to drive a tow truck and I was told in very beginning don't use the flashing lights while getting a vehicle hooked up or loaded onto a flatbed wait untill you are ready to pull out into traffic to use them, so many people and police officers have been hit on the side of the road because of this, people start to stare at what's going on and they drive right into it, the same holds true for using the horn, and with both of them being stopped in the middle of the road, well like I said he was lucky this time. Sorry I'm not trying to be a butt hole about this, but that's okay it's your channel so let the one that disagree with me get mad at me and not you, I think what I've said needed to be said.
great after action review. I agree my first instinct is the brakes. What I would do after hitting the brakes (and checking my rear) is speed back up to the flow of traffic
I was so tense watching this 60 second video. I wasn't sure how bad or not bad it was going to be or when the incident was going to occur. I am glad it didn't result in an injury. My big fear is being run into from behind because people don't give me as much room behind me as I would like.
I had a real close call last season, on one of my last rides... had to pull over and cool off for a good hour. Decided to grab a late breakfast at a diner given I was so shook up. In fact while in the diner another fella came to tell me I’d left the ignition on and lights on - I.e. to your point, a close call can really take you out for a bit mentally. Ride safe.
Agree 100% Braking first. To me horn is useless. Case in point I drive Road Glide Ultra horn is pretty loud. One time on two lane road, I’m in left lane and anticipating this car starting to come into my lane I layed on the horn and the car just came over cutting me off like I was never there. Your also correct on getting down to first gear. That happened to me once and because I was in second gear I stalled it. The fear a getting rear ended wasn’t pretty. Great points you made
Downshifting to first gear while emergency breaking is critical to avoid getting rear ended. Kevin makes a good point about keeping your cool. If you remain stopped to yell at the vehicle driver you may find yourself getting rear ended by a car not paying attention.
This is one of my biggest fears thanks for the video
In traffic I sometimes ride with my thumb on the horn, but that is on my DCT Goldwing. No need to reach for a clutch.
Good job the driver was still looking for John as he pulled out and reacted quickly. Lots of every day errors here on both sides. Lots of good driving too. Just go to show life on the road is a gamble.
I had a close call about a month ago where the person pulling out didn't stop! My first reaction was lay on the brakes and haul the bike down. I agree rev bombing is pointless and doesn't help at all! In these instances you have microseconds to react and sometimes there is no time to do the textbook method only thing going on in your mind is avoiding an accident!
Two additional thoughts: avoid the crosswalk paint lines as many as possible. In west conditions the paint can be very slippery. Also. Smaller bikes are less visible. Add more lights to the bike. Just my two cents.
If they are not seeing us, hearing us is not likeky
John stopping skills rock!
As a Monday morning quarterback, I’ll agree with you. I would have applied the brakes first. I rely on me to avoid the collision not the motorist. Most motorcycle horns are weak and too many motorists have stereos blaring or are wearing ear buds and wouldn’t hear the horn in the first place. I can’t recall anytime that I’ve used the horn in a situation other than giving a little toot to wake up a motorist too busy texting or daydreaming to realize that the light has turned green.
An observation I take from this clip is that John remained in the center of his lane throughout, his path didn't deviate. Even when riding on a straight road, if there is a side road, I move lane position away from the intersection, it opens up the view into the intersection.
I was also trained that if you see a car waiting to come out of the intersection to add a slight swerve, this change of path can make motorcyclists more visible to the vehicle driver. It should be done in such a way that you end up to the far side of the lane as you pass the intersection, in this case with vehicles waiting to pull out from both sides back to the center.
Vehicle drivers struggle with the small front on profile of motorcycles to judge speed and distance, a slight swerve changes our profile, makes the driver more aware and helps them assess the speed and distance.
Applying the breaks and downshifting is probably the best 1st reaction
Happens all the time. I've never avoided a crash with the horn. Brakes work much better.
I read this "...never avoided a crash with the horn.." thing from time to time. But, I have avoided crashes with my horn on two memorable occasions. Yes, I was on my brakes too, but it was my horn that brought my presence to the drivers attention causing them to stop before entering my path of travel. My vote is for using all of the tools in the toolbox when needed to avoid a collision.
@@RickLincoln I'm glad your horn has worked for you. I've just never even thought about blowin' the horn while I'm tryin' to hit the brakes, quick-check the mirrors, maybe swerve, downshift, maybe hit the throttle. I don't know. Maybe it's just me, but honkin' the horn just doesn't occur to me while I'm tryin' to keep the dirty side down. If it works for you, that's very cool. Stay safe brother!
@@lesoram6236 I agree. If you watch the video, the rider doesn't even roll off the throttle while he's honkin' the horn. If the truck wouldn't have seen him and stopped, it would have taken some drastic action to avoid a collision. Split second decisions are a must as we ride, and nobody's perfect. In the video, the horn just didn't seem to be appropriate for someone pullin' out in front of him. Bottom line, no crash and nobody got hurt. Keep it safe Les!
For this type of situation which needs alertness but is not really an emergency, instead of getting 'on the brakes', is to initially use engine braking, and only then go to the brakes if it becomes necessary. This solves two problems, braking is braking, whether it's via the brakes or the engine, and it automatically puts you in a better gear to speed up.
No one seem to mention his stopping distance was still kinda late for if the truck kept moving. What I have started doing was practice engine braking, blipping the throttle while engine matching. Probably advanced technique but something valuable to learn. Kills two birds with one stone. Stopping with brakes and engine assistance and getting down in the right gear. I am waiting for after this pandemic to take as many riding courses as I can. Thats the thrill of owning my bike.
I would try to brake first. Motor cops practice the brake & escape maneuver. They brake and downshift, then look for an escape route. The guy in the video does have safe fundamentals.
I always down shift when braking. Last month's i saw 3 car's make u-turn's