Hello cult members. Here's the timestamps: 00:00 Intro 00:25 Matthew’s Divorce 05:31 How the Sexes Interpret a Situation 11:13 Trust’s Impact on Love 16:20 Good People can be Bad Spouses 29:45 Overcoming Divorce 39:29 How Do You Build Respect in a Marriage? 50:55 The Pain of Seeing Your Ex with Someone Else 59:08 What it’s Like to Be a Woman 1:03:30 Work for Contentment & Peace 1:07:02 How to Find Matthew
I’m a wife and mother and I got a lot from this. Not in the way you might think though, My husband validates and understands, and I’ve been a “little things” ignorer. Great conversation.
Sounds like a direct guide to simping directly in a marriage, do this and this and this and this and this and this...and she's never running out of this...
This is spot on, I left a 13 year relationship. Mind you there was a violent outburst at the end. That was the final straw. Eroded Trust. If you can't rely on your partner in the little things, what makes you think they will be reliable in the big things. I found that to be very true.
He describes well about my divorce! Nothing big bad thing happened. Just accumulation of small things. I initiated divorce. When I look back, either of us had wisdom to fix it before it's too late. I don't regret my divorce but I'm trying to become better in relationship I'm currently in. John Gray provides good insights and practical advices
It's men's fault it's women's fault it's being human. I'm a woman in a long term relationship and one of the greatest things about it is that the relationship acts as a mirror. A dish in the sink erodes trust because you allow it to. What about observing ones own reactions and going deeper into that? When something like that annoys me I get an opportunity to understand myself better. Knowing what to let go and what to insist on is so valuable. If, after reflection, I understand why something bothers me and I can articulate it in a way he understands he totally responds and respects it. Just getting mad about something isn't "communication" that's throwing a tantrum
I wish I could articulate this to my partner in a way she understands. … at least that’s how I used to think. It’s your responsibility to control your actions and behaviours. And usually for every action there’s and equal an opposite reaction. So instead of spending time trying to change your partner or understand why they do certain things. Assume one fundamental principal: only focus on what is in your control and if everything falls into place it is a result of your influence on them.
@@TheConvectuoso the philosophy of stoicism tracks perfectly here. And make no mistake I get angry and frustrated all the time. I feel really big emotions. But I am learning to choose the story that I give those emotions. I used to spiral into doubt and worry whether this relationship was the right relationship. But now I have learned to contextualize things and not catastrophize the way I used to. It has built trust and the more my practice giving grace to my spouse, the more I get in return. I think it's helpful to articulate these things during moments that are not high intensity emotional as well. It lays the groundwork.
@@Wellspring.speaking I’m going to screenshot this comment to remind me in the times that this happens there is a way out 🙌 You don’t happen to have ADHD do you? I find catastrophizing and emotional disregulation like this is common in ADHD and I have it, with all the groups I follow having people anecdotally exhibiting similar behaviours in relationships just like this
Question should be why do her desires take priority over his? Or vise versa? It's called give and take. Why does her desire for him to put the glass away trump his desire to be efficient with his use of the kitchen? The reality is when she over ran him with demands, it also eroded his trust in her.
I had the same feeling as you. Because if you're in a relationship with a person who has control issues(upset about leaving a water glass on a sink), when every detail has to be just right, you become a prisoner in your own home, and if you buckle to every whim, your partner will lose respect because you're spineless
It’s not that her desires take priority. It’s the fact that her desire was seen as stupid or not worth it. It should be a give and take. If she really cared about that glass for whatever reason he should do what he can to make her happy. And vice versa! There’s going to be something he really cares about that she doesn’t and would be easy for her to do to make him happy :)
Not only is this applicable in personal relationships, Matt's insight applies in the work place. Where do you think my disappointment and distrust gets confirmed over and over again. Omg thank you. Accept responsibility for partner selection.
Your dish by the sink perspective is a logically correct one. It is efficient and an insignificant inconvenience. I suppose the question is how much logic are you willing to concede to satisfy this emotional response. This opens a massive door for manipulation AND it disregards the power of the person to bring their emotions in check when necessary.
True.There is no love if trust is absent. Its all about honesty, compromise, and COMMUNICATION. Maturity and awareness on both sides are key as well. Successful relationship in a nutshell.
I disagree with the extrapolation and catastrophisation of 'the glass by the sink,' and found Chris' interpretations of the book far more compelling than its own author's. I also found there to be some self-flagellation from Matthew regarding his own circumstances, and particular premises with which I don't necessarily agree, e.g. why the majority of those filing for divorce in "hetero-normative" marriages (a term which itself elicits a little scepticism) are women. The motives behind this are multivariate and complex, rather than the premise Fray provides. Just as Jordan Peterson has already been mentioned in these comments, I too will suggest his argumentation as being more substantive and compelling than Matthew's.
Or Rollo Tomassi, author of the Rational Male book series, would have a more realistic perspective on male-female dynamics inside of a relationship, I imagine.
This is so accurate for me that it’s scary. Literally crying. Left my ex-husband of just 4 years for reasons semi-related to this, but what kept me there even when I knew I needed to leave was fear. To answer one of the questions you posit to listeners, he had repeatedly threatened self harm and suicide if I left. When it comes to my current partner, I have tried to explain to him that when I come to him with something concerning I don’t want him to try to fix it initially or just tell me I shouldn’t be concerned about it, I just need to be heard. But he doesn’t seem to understand, guess I can’t explain it well enough. This podcast explains it very well and hopefully it helps. Thank you for this Matt; I’m very impressed you took the time to understand and get into why. It really matters.
With your current partner, do you speak to girlfriends, female relatives etc? This seems to be harder for men (it's not an excuse though), but it sounds as if your current isn't that far away from your ex in this area.
So interesting to listen to the two of you. Definitely, modern life is very badly adapted to our biology as men and women. Some seem to want to change biology. It seems to me that what needs to change is modern life....
Looking internally and setting out to work on yourself is probably a better solution than trying to change the world and tell others how to live - that said changing and working on yourself can lead the world if that's what you mean?
@@elee9124 that's exactly what I mean, yes! Changing one's own relationship to modern life has been the crux of it for me and now, at 77, I find myself in more harmony with myself, those around me and life than ever. So great to hear others talking about that!
@@lindamorrison450 at the risk of being gauche, you’ve seen some huge changes in what femininity means in society in your life, so I’m going to listen to you closely. I share the growing into myself feeling (56) and it’s priceless. I wish you many happy years developing laughter lines and gentle smiles. 🙏🇬🇧❤️
@@goldilocks913 thank you so much for your good thoughts and wishes. Yes, the concept of a woman´s role and behaviors have changed during my lifetime. Luckily, my family of origin (especially my Dad) encouraged me to be inquisitive, self-directing, disciplined/organized and creative, so I grew up udnderstanding that I could do anything I put my mind to.... Being a victimof the behavior of others was sometimes a temptation, but never a real option. Looking for solutions for whatever problems came along was priority always. a priority. Laughter and smiles come along with that, alwayus! Good to know you are growing into yourself. All the best!
Reading through the comments, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who was disappointed with this podcast. It started well and I really resonated with Matthew's story as I'm also a guy who got divorced in my mid-30s in a similar scenario where the relationship just...fizzled out. Albeit I was the one who finally made the decision to move out, it took a similar 18-24 months for me to realise that's where we were heading. Where I think this episode lost me - which others have observed - is the apparent bias towards 'understanding' and seeing things from the woman's perspective. I realise that tonality in conversations with your partner matters, but it does sound like he's simping and the issue of how to address these perceived issues in relationships in a way that is fair to both parties is never really discussed which I found disappointing. I'm very guilty of the 'my perspective is logical therefore correct' scenario (being a software engineer and thus very logically-minded) and I'm sure I could benefit from greater empathy at times, but it still doesn't answer how you can avoid or minimize these problems in relationships without capitulating to the other person, and we all know how much a lot of women are turned off by men who just roll over and let them dominate, which is exactly what his solution sounds like.
As a woman, I think oftentimes the minute, illogical problem that women become emotional about is often due to a trigger from past trauma's. That's to say that the action or inaction is causing fear in us because it resembles something leading up to that past trauma. If you validate in saying that you hear us and try to dig deeper into why exactly this minute issue is such a problem, that goes a long way for us. We often realize that we are being emotional and it doesn't fit logic. We know this, but we also can't help how we feel. When we bring this up it's because we are trusting you to help us figure out why it's bothering us so deeply. That being said, I do think this guest says that just like we all know, the monsters under the bed aren't real, but we do need to be gentle and understanding when addressing this illogical conclusion.
Obviously, divorced people have a valuable perspective to provide but honestly, all I see are single and divorced people talking about building a strong relationship and marriage...meanwhile, you have strong, stable married couples who can provide much more credible advice on how they maintained their marriage and denounced any idea of divorce.
Misleading and disingenuous .... seen enough Disney movies .... a disservice to ones watching this crap. Too many incentives for a married WOman to jump ship, the game is rigged and I'm not playing anymore, as with many, many others.
So go for it, but talking bad about people that want a solution won't solve anything, at least they are trying not just giving up. 46:00 he talks about you :p
I once heard Jordan Peterson talk about relationships, he repeatedly said that the truth is the central pillar of every genuine long-term relationship. From my personal experience, I believe the truth alone is not enough. The Journey together, supporting and discovering the truth of one another, It"s the process that keeps people together.,
Why not also discuss women's responsibilities for her husband's feelings, happiness and feelings of trust? This basically says to give her whatever she wants or she will feel pain. Does he not feel pain if he feels unimportant? Or his needs are unmet? Also, please never compare all women to a 4 year old. I get a lot are like that but instead, hold women accountable to act like adults.
I don't know if he's the best one to be discussing that. Although I agree 100% that women need to do that, in reality it should be a woman telling women that. I didn't get the sense that he didn't believe that, just that we are each responsible for our own actions and he's talking to men...because he's a man and we men might receive this from him while we might not be receptive to the same advice from a woman.
@@spitfireap77 fair point, it just seemed annoyingly one sided to me. Discussing personal responsibility and care for your spouse can be done in generalized terms so it doesn't need to be couched just for one side, which I would have preferred. But I do understand your thought and it makes sense as well.
Further confirms marriage to be DOA when it can be broken for dirty dishes, soon, it will be because the husbands breathes 79% nitrogen infused air instead of 78%, the guest was such a c**k but no choice since he has a child and is legally blackmailed.
@@eddie-ni5ox I am a married woman and SO grateful to be so. And I wish men wanted this life, but looking at the possible ramifications and the females available.....I don't blame them for wanting to stay single.
Sounds like the author wrote the book to try and get his ex back, seriously saying that not wanting to do what your partner wants you to do is PAIN is nonsense, I want to see the science to back that up.
Challenge your “science” 0 seconds ago In days of old, sexist double standards were upheld by the “God” endorsed sexism of religion. Nowadays, the majority of the justifications for red pill pornography philosophy sexism comes from evolutionary psychology. What most people don’t seem to look into are the many attribution errors of evo psych. That is, in so many cases, the biases of the scientists and the scientific community in evo psych attribute their conclusions to NATURE when it is NURTURE (culture/societal influences and pressures). Just 1 example is that men “age better” than women. I’m choosing this particular one because this belief is foundational to many of the rationalizations of double standards when it comes to women. -for millions of years, humans didn’t even live past 35 -men who take a pill to assist the their erection… how is that “natural”. Many men past 35 rely on these pills. -reproductive science now shows that men over 35 have sperm that causes abnormalities in children-such as autism (which is very serious), allergies and autoimmune problems -younger women in times before religion (religion that established ability for rulers to rule beyond small tribes and thus set up patriarchal systems of control over women. Within those systems, powerful men could hoard resources and women were in positions of submission) would have chosen the younger men… it’s natural. And younger men could go on long, tough adventures to hunt and drag back to camp big game. Younger men were better at protecting women. Only in patriarchal structures of oppression did women ever choose old men over young men. -Even now, when young women or young men date older, the vast majority of cases are for resources. Attribution error is rampant in evo psych and is used not in a rational, but in a very rationalizing way… it’s an attempt to uphold the same double standards of religion, now that religions influence is fading. These are just a few examples of things missed in evo psych but I have more if you’re interested!
Setting boundaries is so important and healthy, as it sets the tone of our friendships and relationships. 💙RUclipsr That Helps People Overcome Toxic Relationships
This guy looks like he's "Storming through the party like his name was El Niño While I'm hanging out drinking in the back of an El Camino As a kid, was a skid, and no one knew me by name Trashed my own house party 'cause nobody came…
The more I learn about them the more I realize the potential of good it can bring to my life. I won't rush into a relationship, but I know what I want and I'll find the right person for me. There's a real touch of nihilism in your comment, good relationships do exist, you know a few I know a few. Of course there's always a risk of it not working but there's also a chance of it becoming the best thing in your life. Stay open.
@@photog1738 The fact that great relationships are exceedingly scarce today tells me everything I need to know. It's not giving up hope. It's a sober view of reality. It's quite the lose-lose: If you treat women poorly, they'll stay for a while and eventually leave. If you treat women well, they'll resent you and want nothing to do with you. Why bother attempting to win a game rigged against men on every level: Relationally, financially, and legally.
@@jasonpauldegraaf They're scarce but they still exist, there are more of them than you might think. Not all girls are the same and they will not all leave bc you treat her well. You're putting all women in the same basket that's not how the world works. Of course if you give up your chances of finding the right girl shrink but if you know what you're looking for in a women and work on yourself your chances go up. Might take months, years or forever but you have nothing to lose by staying open. You only lose if you hide under a nihilistic pov on love
You have to trust someone to love them at first, but trust eroding means love can't keep it together, I think. That's what I'm picking up from a bit of this convo
Individual levels of disgust sensitivity may be an overlooked yet important element in the relationship breaking down rather than the stated feeling of the lack of respect for continuously leaving a glass on the counter in my opinion. We tend to burn what disgusts us.
Interesting perspective, Amelia, and I agree entirely, but would like more clarification. There have been studies about how women on birth control are attracted to different types of men than when they are off birth control, which could ruin a relationship if they got together when she was on birth control and then she stopped taking it in order to conceive. The theory being, women want genetic diversity when ovulating (and looking to conceive) but want similarity when pregnant, since men of similar genetics may/will be more likely to protect them and invest in their offspring. This may well factor into disgust, since if the wife stops taking birth control she may then become disgusted (sexually) by her husband who she was previously attracted to while on birth control. This may also be a big factor in divorce rates, and probably is in my opinion. Anyway, can you elaborate more on the disgust? Does any of what I said make sense to you? Is sexual disgust and general disgust linked in your experience? I'd love to hear a woman's perspective on this.
@@charlieweaver6322 if I understood you correctly you want greater clarification in respect to disgust sensitivity in the sexual disgust domain from a woman’s point of view? From what I’ve read men and women differ in individual levels of disgust sensitivity in relation to what they perceive as a threat to life (theirs or their offspring) and limb in respect to the different disgust domains. Evolutionary psychologists are better able to highlight/clarify the differences/similarities in which men and women have evolved to react whether it be in the Pathogen disgust domain, Moral disgust domain or the Sexual disgust domain and how it impacts relationships I simply am not qualified to do so, but you have given me food for thought.
@@AmeliaBodilia That is what I wanted, but I wasn't expecting academic studies, just anecdotes, given that you're a woman I thought you might have experience with this if you'd be willing to share?
Appreciate this discussion. Even though they are not at all approaching this topic from a religious aspect, their conclusions match very well what the Bible says about relationships. The Bible instructs men to love their wives self-sacrificially. It instructs women to respect their husbands. It's interesting to hear this discussion about reaching these conclusions via the hard knocks of life when God was telling us how to do it for thousands of years.
Right on... Exactly what I was thinking. They use a lot of words where "humility" would have sufficed. "Love others as Christ loved us and gave Himself up" or in other words, your ego must die so you can put others first.
It's quite rare for a modern wife to truly respect her husband. I go to a decently conservative church. I regularly hear women (from the pulpit, even) mock and disrespect their husbands. It's so gross to hear.
This discussion and its points are really good IF…. IF everyone realizes that this is all a TWO-WAY STREET. Chris said so a couple of times but it may have gotten lost. Yes, man really should learn how women see things, but women really should learn how men see things just as much. If it’s a one way street and the man does all of these things for her and she’s happy… well he might be resentful as hell after all that one-way giving. Then HE will walk. This discussion is definitely valuable, but it would have held more value for more people if the “two-way-street” aspect of everything was explored equally.
But what motive does a woman have to understand men? They are, in her eyes, both expendable and a utility. She has no shortage of attention from men via social media/dating apps, and no shortage of funds from either the family court system or big daddy government. Unless she is a unicorn who doesn't gravitate toward blame and victimhood, she has every incentive to demand her own way or walk.
@@jasonpauldegraaf - That's a cynical was to see things, but I cannot say you're wrong. I have indeed encountered several women who operating on this premise.
Women spend their whole lives being socialized to cater to men, so we understand them very well. Men don't really understand how women think and that's where the problems come from.
Hills I will die on: - Men and women have different roles in society. - Having children is a blessing. - Masculinity is good, and femininity is beautiful. - Lack of strong male role models is #1 issue of our time. What are yours?
I mean, all respect to Chris, whose podcast has been a great addition to my life as of recent and quickly became one of the very few things I currently follow up, but this guest, man... ...From the simple look and body language perspective, this guest looks and sounds off by a mile. As much as I don't want to use the term, "blue pill" is about the most precise term I can come up with to define him. And then there's his content, which sounds a lot like he's trying to make up for his failed relationship by outright simping. I'm listening to this for entertainment values alone.
I fell bad for Chris. He is capable of more than being a book reviewer. I am sure he is getting tired of only talking to authors. He probably craves a conversation with someone not selling a book.
@@gregkirk1842 I am not saying it's a grift, I just suspect it could be a grind some days. His best podcasts are when they are not promoting a book. I do however understand that the book reviews pay the bills.
Question in regards to the "bad spose" stuff 16 minutes in - and it IS a question, I'd like to hear answers, I'm not trying to pick a fight or make a point here. So here goes: The example Chris talks about, is a man who goes to work, comes home and pays the bills, and is "true to his woman", as he puts it. That's what this man has been taught he's supposed to do. But then the woman gets upset because he keeps leaving a glass near the sink, and that's what's important to her, so it annoys the hell out of her. My question is - is this sort of scenario a problem universally, or is it something you see in privileged homes? Is the glass left near the sink a "luxyry problem"? I grew up semi-poor, and my dad worked all day, and when he came home he immediately went out back to fix up old cars, which he sold. He made a fucking mess everywhere in the house, he wasn't as affectionate or "emotionally available" as men are expected to be today. But he did what he had to do, to keep our family afloat, (and succeeded). And my mom never bothered him about glasses near the sink, or oily handprints on the fridge, or any of that stuff. And I don't know whether that was just a generational thing, her personality, or maybe - and this is what I'm trying to figure out - maybe she realized that his efforts were vital, and he was doing everything he could, so "the little stuff" simply did not matter.
One of the things I really like about this podcast is that Chris lets his guests talk instead of interrupting them. It allows people to feel valued, seen, and heard by another person. Anyway, I thought this episode was interesting, but I feel bad for this guy - he was clearly really affected by his divorce. That's absolutely understandable. Nine years later, he still remembers the date his wife left and now he's focused on being a relationship coach with a new book out on the topic. Nothing wrong with improving your life after a massive change involving grief, but he kind of seemed to beat himself up about it all. I am not criticizing him for this, since he has clearly learned a lot and it must give him fulfillment to share advice. This was just my observation throughout the conversation. I hope he finds happiness!
Trust > love.... for so long, actually until about a month ago, I believed "love" trumped everything, even compulsive lying... man I had that hierarchy wrong! Thanks so much for spelling out what I had backwards for soooo so so so long!
I'd argue that true and real love fosters trust. If someone is constantly lying, manipulating, criticizing or whatever, they are not being loving (and aren't trustworthy.) A visible pattern of real love displayed in one's life (humility, generosity, putting others first) is what creates an environment where trust grows. Doesn't mean we should tolerate abusive people because that is enabling their dysfunction. Loving someone like that actually means holding up a mirror so they can see their problems and work towards correcting them, assuming they have some level of humility and can admit they have some crap to deal with.
This guy's "insights" are hilarious... he conflates trust with communication and couples that with saying men should be kowtowing to unrealistic expectations of their partner and enabling their neurosis
@@Opal5674 certainly different in each situation, but do recommend you look up Esther Perel - she does a great job at explaining that we seem to expect too much in the modern era and should try harder to give our loved ones grace, patience, and empathy. From the sound of it, this dudes wife gave up, and while he had his hand in it, it's not quite clear what accountability is on her for throwing in the towel
@@elee9124 Thing is from a womans perspective we dint even want a lot but men have to realize now most of us women are working too. We have jobs now and are expected to maintain the house. We know what it's like to work and come home and work. Men can no longer use the excuse of having a job so not having to do anything around the house. We'd like you to not lie, cheat. have substance abuse issues, and hopefully stay reasonably fit just like you expect us to. That's pretty much it
@@Opal5674 I appreciate your perspective, but where did this guy fail on those requirements/expectations? He should still be married by your measure... Sounds like he's spent an awful lot of time trying to rationalize how leaving a glass on the counter destroyed his life... his wife was willing to wreck her home over this and pull the child away from their father... there is certainly something deeper here like he suggests
@@elee9124 Some people can't deal with the fact that women simply get bored and want to cash out. There's no mystery to it. Women have unbelievably unrealistic expectations of men and marriage and most want to feel a deeply satisfying life that simply doesn't exist. Women leave simply because there's no reason for them to stay anymore. There's no consequence at all. Actually, cashing out is incentivised. This is why women leave. Because they were built to not be satisfied. This is why divorce rate in lesbian couples is absurdly high, even more than heterosexual couples.
A lot of relationship issues could be cleaned up by people keeping a check on their own neuroticism. A glass left in the sink is not a declaration of war and seeing it as such is unacceptable. People need to work harder to grow up and mature their own perspectives.
I believe this guest has great advice and I appreciated the conversation. I think its kinda weird though that he is talking about his ex 9 years later and how terrible it was while also saying he doesn't think about her any more. If I was this women that would creep me out. Non-violent communication talks about the need to be validated and felt understood. Was immediately diving into a story about the ex entirely necessary?
Chris, a thought or two: our brains are wired in the dopamine way that we do something often we stop liking it incrementally that much. Has rationale for the berries collecting, sure. What about relationships, why did mother nature / evolution wire us for such strong disconnect and misunderstanding between the sexes? Could it be evolution prefers if we stop understanding each other after some time and move on to other partner? I.e. the misunderstandings are not a flaw/ bug but a built in feature? Also, any recommendations re hobbies that one likes to do regularly in order to prevent dopamine dips and diminishing dopamine returns? Not sure how to build in pain aspect in hobbies like dancing etc.
I don't thik Matthew is a man that knows much about women. Or that had a lot of success with women. Not saying that I have, but man, he does not look like a player.
Funny how much of the accountability talk - in this interview and a few others w/ Chris - is aimed unmistakably at men. It’s a little baffling that He doesn’t see that women taking responsibility for their own bad behavior would ( generally) improve relations between men & women significantly.
Validating other people's feelings regardless of logic, what I saw "really happened", and view as the appropriate response, is one of the hardest things to remember to do. Definitely something I need to work on
Ah, I now see where I should’ve just left my partner. He was deaf to my problems, pretty much. He was probably doing it intentionally too. I should’ve just run…
Chris is struggling with Matthew here, that's for sure. Did Chris say at 45:48 "People with penises"? Please tell me it was ironic or cynical or.......... something.
Wow, this guy is an extreme utilitarian, full on relativism. I’m sure if the only metric one cared about (being in a relationship) this is a fine tactic. I guess the point is as a modern man we should jettison all semblance of realism and how things really are working whether accurate or not (which is our evolutionarily inheritance for men on average) and for the reward of…possibly getting the respect that any normal person would give another that they are entangled with on any level. This sounds like the literal deal with the devil, give up everything you own and you will be happy. I and many others will not be joining you at the crossroads. One more point, how disdainful is this towards woman. They should be simply patted on the head instead of engaged with in a truthful, sincere fashion. I know some smart women, none of them want to be treated as lessors and for a simple reason, they are not. These people have a fundamental misunderstanding of what MEN are looking for as well, a counterpart.
Consider your “science” 0 seconds ago In days of old, sexist double standards were upheld by the “God” endorsed sexism of religion. Nowadays, the majority of the justifications for red pill pornography philosophy sexism comes from evolutionary psychology. What most people don’t seem to look into are the many attribution errors of evo psych. That is, in so many cases, the biases of the scientists and the scientific community in evo psych attribute their conclusions to NATURE when it is NURTURE (culture/societal influences and pressures). Just 1 example is that men “age better” than women. I’m choosing this particular one because this belief is foundational to many of the rationalizations of double standards when it comes to women. -for millions of years, humans didn’t even live past 35 -men who take a pill to assist the their erection… how is that “natural”. Many men past 35 rely on these pills. -reproductive science now shows that men over 35 have sperm that causes abnormalities in children-such as autism (which is very serious), allergies and autoimmune problems -younger women in times before religion (religion that established ability for rulers to rule beyond small tribes and thus set up patriarchal systems of control over women. Within those systems, powerful men could hoard resources and women were in positions of submission) would have chosen the younger men… it’s natural. And younger men could go on long, tough adventures to hunt and drag back to camp big game. Younger men were better at protecting women. Only in patriarchal structures of oppression did women ever choose old men over young men. -Even now, when young women or young men date older, the vast majority of cases are for resources. Attribution error is rampant in evo psych and is used not in a rational, but in a very rationalizing way… it’s an attempt to uphold the same double standards of religion, now that religions influence is fading. These are just a few examples of things missed in evo psych!
If you always give in to a woman, she will come to despise you. You have to be very scrupulous when accommodating a woman you are in an intimate relationship with. The more you challenge her to deserve satisfaction, the more she will admire you. If she admires you, you will both be happy. The inverse is true as well.
Everything is defending the woman with this guy I fought and stayed through cheating and all to keep my kids and then she leaves takes them and all after me staying with her for the kids paid the bills and she and all her friends we miss all have many baby daddies now so no the man wants a wife we have none to choose from
This was a thought-provoking interview. Appreciate the host, making the distinction in validation needs between male and females within a martial or mutual-relationship. In reflection men and women share similarities in their overall humanity but also clear biological and psychological differences. Those differences ought not to be deluded, overlooked, or ignored by either party. Blurred lines just make things blurry. Being able to see people for who they are in a relationship and making an informed decision to accept them or not is meaningful too. Of course, more could be said but in regards to this session, it was at 1st a little off-putting to seemingly compare a woman to a child that needs sympathetic TLC when they're in pain. However, the concept and overall message offered insightful advice on how to secure longevity in a relationship. The 'invalidation Tripple Threat' was thoughtfully conveyed. It seems important to note not to readily dismiss the thoughts and feelings of others who are upset or who are experiencing suffering. The male ability to properly offer comfort and safety in a relationship may be extremely important to some women. It seems important to address those little issues too along the way as mentioned that can add up to a massive meltdown. However, it seems mutual self-sacrifice in trust & love can help couples endure too. These interviews on this channel although not seemingly faith-based have offered intriguing perspectives on certain issues. Actually wouldn't mind hearing more presentations from the host himself as he seems to have many insightful thought-provoking things to say as well. Enjoyed listening to his input or commentary in this session too.
What is the function of marriage, not happiness, but to raise the next generation in a good environment, happiness is not a factor, how empty is an oath that can be broken due to dishes left in the sink. This should tell you everything that is necessary and relevant!
@@eddie-ni5ox I definitely agree that marraige ought not to be based on happiness. For happiness itself is based on temporal happy happenings. We ought to be responsible for our own happiness and not sole rely on another to make us happy. Measuring martial contentment sole based on ones ever-changing emotional states can cause a relationship to become unstable over time as well. It does seem fickle at first with the example described of a dish left in the sink that was highlighted to be a contributing factor over time to a marital break down. However it seems this event was highlighted as a precursor to an underlining issue of accumulated differing perception of actions that seemed to be fleshed out in the interview that actually resulted in the martial break down. Overall, the exclusivity of marriage seems the strongest where self-centeredness or self-absorbtion, and the lack of giving is not excessively present in either partner. Basically if one becomes married its not all about you anymore its important to consider the other person's preferences or perceptions and work them out hopefully in love together as one. If a couple Is given the opportunity to raise the next generation in a marital arrangement hopefully they will raise strong and wise individuals that can also properly discern the lies of unhealthy nonsense. 🙂
The story about tension over a glass being left on a bench top clearly shows the complex disaster of relationships . Who cares or has time to fathom these things.
Almost every single time I've seen a relationship end, it's cos the guy is treating his wife like a maid. Maybe on top of that he's cheating. In the very rare occasions where it's the guy who left, it's cos she did something HORRIBLE, like a terrible crime or something. Also, it's unhealthy grooming, the way Chris jokes about "members of his cult". A red flag....
Hello cult members. Here's the timestamps:
00:00 Intro
00:25 Matthew’s Divorce
05:31 How the Sexes Interpret a Situation
11:13 Trust’s Impact on Love
16:20 Good People can be Bad Spouses
29:45 Overcoming Divorce
39:29 How Do You Build Respect in a Marriage?
50:55 The Pain of Seeing Your Ex with Someone Else
59:08 What it’s Like to Be a Woman
1:03:30 Work for Contentment & Peace
1:07:02 How to Find Matthew
You forgot the "do unto others before they do unto" stamp. Or am I the only one who got this tidbit out of Matthew's nonsense?
I’m a wife and mother and I got a lot from this. Not in the way you might think though, My husband validates and understands, and I’ve been a “little things” ignorer.
Great conversation.
Sounds like a direct guide to simping directly in a marriage, do this and this and this and this and this and this...and she's never running out of this...
This is spot on, I left a 13 year relationship. Mind you there was a violent outburst at the end. That was the final straw. Eroded Trust. If you can't rely on your partner in the little things, what makes you think they will be reliable in the big things. I found that to be very true.
He describes well about my divorce! Nothing big bad thing happened. Just accumulation of small things. I initiated divorce. When I look back, either of us had wisdom to fix it before it's too late. I don't regret my divorce but I'm trying to become better in relationship I'm currently in. John Gray provides good insights and practical advices
It's men's fault it's women's fault it's being human. I'm a woman in a long term relationship and one of the greatest things about it is that the relationship acts as a mirror. A dish in the sink erodes trust because you allow it to. What about observing ones own reactions and going deeper into that? When something like that annoys me I get an opportunity to understand myself better. Knowing what to let go and what to insist on is so valuable. If, after reflection, I understand why something bothers me and I can articulate it in a way he understands he totally responds and respects it. Just getting mad about something isn't "communication" that's throwing a tantrum
🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
Good post
I wish I could articulate this to my partner in a way she understands.
… at least that’s how I used to think.
It’s your responsibility to control your actions and behaviours. And usually for every action there’s and equal an opposite reaction. So instead of spending time trying to change your partner or understand why they do certain things. Assume one fundamental principal: only focus on what is in your control and if everything falls into place it is a result of your influence on them.
@@TheConvectuoso the philosophy of stoicism tracks perfectly here. And make no mistake I get angry and frustrated all the time. I feel really big emotions. But I am learning to choose the story that I give those emotions. I used to spiral into doubt and worry whether this relationship was the right relationship. But now I have learned to contextualize things and not catastrophize the way I used to. It has built trust and the more my practice giving grace to my spouse, the more I get in return. I think it's helpful to articulate these things during moments that are not high intensity emotional as well. It lays the groundwork.
@@Wellspring.speaking I’m going to screenshot this comment to remind me in the times that this happens there is a way out 🙌
You don’t happen to have ADHD do you? I find catastrophizing and emotional disregulation like this is common in ADHD and I have it, with all the groups I follow having people anecdotally exhibiting similar behaviours in relationships just like this
Question should be why do her desires take priority over his? Or vise versa? It's called give and take.
Why does her desire for him to put the glass away trump his desire to be efficient with his use of the kitchen? The reality is when she over ran him with demands, it also eroded his trust in her.
Very well put. I think man and woman need to fit like a puzzle.
She was looking for excuses to dip out. He probably was getting cucked.
I had the same feeling as you. Because if you're in a relationship with a person who has control issues(upset about leaving a water glass on a sink), when every detail has to be just right, you become a prisoner in your own home, and if you buckle to every whim, your partner will lose respect because you're spineless
It’s not that her desires take priority. It’s the fact that her desire was seen as stupid or not worth it. It should be a give and take. If she really cared about that glass for whatever reason he should do what he can to make her happy. And vice versa! There’s going to be something he really cares about that she doesn’t and would be easy for her to do to make him happy :)
Yes. It’s hard that everything you think or feel as a woman is minimized and tossed away because “women are irrational”.
When we fail to keep our word, we erode our loved one's trust. When that trust has gone, love soon follows.
Not only is this applicable in personal relationships, Matt's insight applies in the work place. Where do you think my disappointment and distrust gets confirmed over and over again.
Omg thank you. Accept responsibility for partner selection.
Your dish by the sink perspective is a logically correct one. It is efficient and an insignificant inconvenience.
I suppose the question is how much logic are you willing to concede to satisfy this emotional response.
This opens a massive door for manipulation AND it disregards the power of the person to bring their emotions in check when necessary.
True.There is no love if trust is absent. Its all about honesty, compromise, and COMMUNICATION. Maturity and awareness on both sides are key as well. Successful relationship in a nutshell.
I disagree with the extrapolation and catastrophisation of 'the glass by the sink,' and found Chris' interpretations of the book far more compelling than its own author's. I also found there to be some self-flagellation from Matthew regarding his own circumstances, and particular premises with which I don't necessarily agree, e.g. why the majority of those filing for divorce in "hetero-normative" marriages (a term which itself elicits a little scepticism) are women. The motives behind this are multivariate and complex, rather than the premise Fray provides.
Just as Jordan Peterson has already been mentioned in these comments, I too will suggest his argumentation as being more substantive and compelling than Matthew's.
Or Rollo Tomassi, author of the Rational Male book series, would have a more realistic perspective on male-female dynamics inside of a relationship, I imagine.
@@whenpigsfly8178 Except where every marriage has a 3rd party that men always forget but women NEVER do, the state!
This is so accurate for me that it’s scary. Literally crying. Left my ex-husband of just 4 years for reasons semi-related to this, but what kept me there even when I knew I needed to leave was fear. To answer one of the questions you posit to listeners, he had repeatedly threatened self harm and suicide if I left.
When it comes to my current partner, I have tried to explain to him that when I come to him with something concerning I don’t want him to try to fix it initially or just tell me I shouldn’t be concerned about it, I just need to be heard. But he doesn’t seem to understand, guess I can’t explain it well enough. This podcast explains it very well and hopefully it helps. Thank you for this Matt; I’m very impressed you took the time to understand and get into why. It really matters.
With your current partner, do you speak to girlfriends, female relatives etc? This seems to be harder for men (it's not an excuse though), but it sounds as if your current isn't that far away from your ex in this area.
If you desperately want to be in a relationship at any cost, even if it means you're pathetic and miserable then this is the perfect video for you.
Focusing on the potential of who your beloved one could be may be a huge motivation to stay despite being aware of a doomed future
So interesting to listen to the two of you. Definitely, modern life is very badly adapted to our biology as men and women. Some seem to want to change biology. It seems to me that what needs to change is modern life....
Looking internally and setting out to work on yourself is probably a better solution than trying to change the world and tell others how to live - that said changing and working on yourself can lead the world if that's what you mean?
@@elee9124 that's exactly what I mean, yes! Changing one's own relationship to modern life has been the crux of it for me and now, at 77, I find myself in more harmony with myself, those around me and life than ever. So great to hear others talking about that!
@@lindamorrison450 at the risk of being gauche, you’ve seen some huge changes in what femininity means in society in your life, so I’m going to listen to you closely.
I share the growing into myself feeling (56) and it’s priceless. I wish you many happy years developing laughter lines and gentle smiles. 🙏🇬🇧❤️
@@goldilocks913 thank you so much for your good thoughts and wishes. Yes, the concept of a woman´s role and behaviors have changed during my lifetime. Luckily, my family of origin (especially my Dad) encouraged me to be inquisitive, self-directing, disciplined/organized and creative, so I grew up udnderstanding that I could do anything I put my mind to.... Being a victimof the behavior of others was sometimes a temptation, but never a real option. Looking for solutions for whatever problems came along was priority always. a priority. Laughter and smiles come along with that, alwayus! Good to know you are growing into yourself. All the best!
Reading through the comments, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who was disappointed with this podcast. It started well and I really resonated with Matthew's story as I'm also a guy who got divorced in my mid-30s in a similar scenario where the relationship just...fizzled out. Albeit I was the one who finally made the decision to move out, it took a similar 18-24 months for me to realise that's where we were heading.
Where I think this episode lost me - which others have observed - is the apparent bias towards 'understanding' and seeing things from the woman's perspective. I realise that tonality in conversations with your partner matters, but it does sound like he's simping and the issue of how to address these perceived issues in relationships in a way that is fair to both parties is never really discussed which I found disappointing.
I'm very guilty of the 'my perspective is logical therefore correct' scenario (being a software engineer and thus very logically-minded) and I'm sure I could benefit from greater empathy at times, but it still doesn't answer how you can avoid or minimize these problems in relationships without capitulating to the other person, and we all know how much a lot of women are turned off by men who just roll over and let them dominate, which is exactly what his solution sounds like.
As a woman, I think oftentimes the minute, illogical problem that women become emotional about is often due to a trigger from past trauma's. That's to say that the action or inaction is causing fear in us because it resembles something leading up to that past trauma. If you validate in saying that you hear us and try to dig deeper into why exactly this minute issue is such a problem, that goes a long way for us. We often realize that we are being emotional and it doesn't fit logic. We know this, but we also can't help how we feel. When we bring this up it's because we are trusting you to help us figure out why it's bothering us so deeply.
That being said, I do think this guest says that just like we all know, the monsters under the bed aren't real, but we do need to be gentle and understanding when addressing this illogical conclusion.
@@carolhardy3791you could try learning to come from yourself. Either we’re equals or we ain’t.
Listened to this on Spotify and I really liked it. Absolutely great episode and wonderful guest.
Obviously, divorced people have a valuable perspective to provide but honestly, all I see are single and divorced people talking about building a strong relationship and marriage...meanwhile, you have strong, stable married couples who can provide much more credible advice on how they maintained their marriage and denounced any idea of divorce.
Misleading and disingenuous .... seen enough Disney movies .... a disservice to ones watching this crap. Too many incentives for a married WOman to jump ship, the game is rigged and I'm not playing anymore, as with many, many others.
So go for it, but talking bad about people that want a solution won't solve anything, at least they are trying not just giving up. 46:00 he talks about you :p
I once heard Jordan Peterson talk about relationships, he repeatedly said that the truth is the central pillar of every genuine long-term relationship. From my personal experience, I believe the truth alone is not enough. The Journey together, supporting and discovering the truth of one another, It"s the process that keeps people together.,
@@TheOlzee Truth is usually the hardest pill to swallow...
Why not also discuss women's responsibilities for her husband's feelings, happiness and feelings of trust? This basically says to give her whatever she wants or she will feel pain. Does he not feel pain if he feels unimportant? Or his needs are unmet? Also, please never compare all women to a 4 year old. I get a lot are like that but instead, hold women accountable to act like adults.
I don't know if he's the best one to be discussing that. Although I agree 100% that women need to do that, in reality it should be a woman telling women that. I didn't get the sense that he didn't believe that, just that we are each responsible for our own actions and he's talking to men...because he's a man and we men might receive this from him while we might not be receptive to the same advice from a woman.
If he implied that women might have to change as well his book wouldn't sell that well.
@@spitfireap77 fair point, it just seemed annoyingly one sided to me. Discussing personal responsibility and care for your spouse can be done in generalized terms so it doesn't need to be couched just for one side, which I would have preferred. But I do understand your thought and it makes sense as well.
Further confirms marriage to be DOA when it can be broken for dirty dishes, soon, it will be because the husbands breathes 79% nitrogen infused air instead of 78%, the guest was such a c**k but no choice since he has a child and is legally blackmailed.
@@eddie-ni5ox I am a married woman and SO grateful to be so. And I wish men wanted this life, but looking at the possible ramifications and the females available.....I don't blame them for wanting to stay single.
This guy is 45 degrees off the mark. Love the channel, keep up the hard work!
Sounds like the author wrote the book to try and get his ex back, seriously saying that not wanting to do what your partner wants you to do is PAIN is nonsense, I want to see the science to back that up.
Challenge your “science”
0 seconds ago
In days of old, sexist double standards were upheld by the “God” endorsed sexism of religion. Nowadays, the majority of the justifications for red pill pornography philosophy sexism comes from evolutionary psychology.
What most people don’t seem to look into are the many attribution errors of evo psych. That is, in so many cases, the biases of the scientists and the scientific community in evo psych attribute their conclusions to NATURE when it is NURTURE (culture/societal influences and pressures).
Just 1 example is that men “age better” than women. I’m choosing this particular one because this belief is foundational to many of the rationalizations of double standards when it comes to women.
-for millions of years, humans didn’t even live past 35
-men who take a pill to assist the their erection… how is that “natural”. Many men past 35 rely on these pills.
-reproductive science now shows that men over 35 have sperm that causes abnormalities in children-such as autism (which is very serious), allergies and autoimmune problems
-younger women in times before religion (religion that established ability for rulers to rule beyond small tribes and thus set up patriarchal systems of control over women. Within those systems, powerful men could hoard resources and women were in positions of submission)
would have chosen the younger men… it’s natural. And younger men could go on long, tough adventures to hunt and drag back to camp big game. Younger men were better at protecting women. Only in patriarchal structures of oppression did women ever choose old men over young men.
-Even now, when young women or young men date older, the vast majority of cases are for resources.
Attribution error is rampant in evo psych and is used not in a rational, but in a very rationalizing way… it’s an attempt to uphold the same double standards of religion, now that religions influence is fading. These are just a few examples of things missed in evo psych but I have more if you’re interested!
Trust is vital, especially when trying to rebuild old relationships in some form one took for granted in the past.
Wheat Waffles channel is KING about relationships. this is surface level. if you want truth. Wheat Waffles is your guy.
Respect... the woman must respect you .
I don't give a F if she loves you....RESPECT is way way more important.
Pretty narcisistic. Truth is, in a good relationship both are present.
Woman need respect. Men need appreciation
Gross 🤮
Setting boundaries is so important and healthy, as it sets the tone of our friendships and relationships.
💙RUclipsr That Helps People Overcome Toxic Relationships
Mate sounds like a great book. I have yet to go on a date without giving my location to multiple friends. Better to be safe than sorry!
Little paper cuts is so very very true!!
This guy looks like he's "Storming through the party like his name was El Niño
While I'm hanging out drinking in the back of an El Camino
As a kid, was a skid, and no one knew me by name
Trashed my own house party 'cause nobody came…
The more I learn about relationships, the more I'm gladly content I'm avoiding them. In this day and age, it's just not worth the effort.
@@deenot4878 Nah, I'll do what I want.
The more I learn about them the more I realize the potential of good it can bring to my life. I won't rush into a relationship, but I know what I want and I'll find the right person for me. There's a real touch of nihilism in your comment, good relationships do exist, you know a few I know a few. Of course there's always a risk of it not working but there's also a chance of it becoming the best thing in your life. Stay open.
@@photog1738 The fact that great relationships are exceedingly scarce today tells me everything I need to know. It's not giving up hope. It's a sober view of reality. It's quite the lose-lose: If you treat women poorly, they'll stay for a while and eventually leave. If you treat women well, they'll resent you and want nothing to do with you. Why bother attempting to win a game rigged against men on every level: Relationally, financially, and legally.
@@jasonpauldegraaf They're scarce but they still exist, there are more of them than you might think. Not all girls are the same and they will not all leave bc you treat her well. You're putting all women in the same basket that's not how the world works. Of course if you give up your chances of finding the right girl shrink but if you know what you're looking for in a women and work on yourself your chances go up. Might take months, years or forever but you have nothing to lose by staying open. You only lose if you hide under a nihilistic pov on love
@@deenot4878 stop everyone else then. You can't control what people say
The dish shouldn’t have been a big deal
You have to trust someone to love them at first, but trust eroding means love can't keep it together, I think. That's what I'm picking up from a bit of this convo
Individual levels of disgust sensitivity may be an overlooked yet important element in the relationship breaking down rather than the stated feeling of the lack of respect for continuously leaving a glass on the counter in my opinion. We tend to burn what disgusts us.
Interesting perspective, Amelia, and I agree entirely, but would like more clarification.
There have been studies about how women on birth control are attracted to different types of men than when they are off birth control, which could ruin a relationship if they got together when she was on birth control and then she stopped taking it in order to conceive. The theory being, women want genetic diversity when ovulating (and looking to conceive) but want similarity when pregnant, since men of similar genetics may/will be more likely to protect them and invest in their offspring. This may well factor into disgust, since if the wife stops taking birth control she may then become disgusted (sexually) by her husband who she was previously attracted to while on birth control.
This may also be a big factor in divorce rates, and probably is in my opinion.
Anyway, can you elaborate more on the disgust? Does any of what I said make sense to you? Is sexual disgust and general disgust linked in your experience? I'd love to hear a woman's perspective on this.
@@charlieweaver6322 if I understood you correctly you want greater clarification in respect to disgust sensitivity in the sexual disgust domain from a woman’s point of view? From what I’ve read men and women differ in individual levels of disgust sensitivity in relation to what they perceive as a threat to life (theirs or their offspring) and limb in respect to the different disgust domains.
Evolutionary psychologists are better able to highlight/clarify the differences/similarities in which men and women have evolved to react whether it be in the Pathogen disgust domain, Moral disgust domain or the Sexual disgust domain and how it impacts relationships I simply am not qualified to do so, but you have given me food for thought.
@@AmeliaBodilia That is what I wanted, but I wasn't expecting academic studies, just anecdotes, given that you're a woman I thought you might have experience with this if you'd be willing to share?
Appreciate this discussion. Even though they are not at all approaching this topic from a religious aspect, their conclusions match very well what the Bible says about relationships. The Bible instructs men to love their wives self-sacrificially. It instructs women to respect their husbands. It's interesting to hear this discussion about reaching these conclusions via the hard knocks of life when God was telling us how to do it for thousands of years.
Right on... Exactly what I was thinking. They use a lot of words where "humility" would have sufficed. "Love others as Christ loved us and gave Himself up" or in other words, your ego must die so you can put others first.
It's quite rare for a modern wife to truly respect her husband. I go to a decently conservative church. I regularly hear women (from the pulpit, even) mock and disrespect their husbands. It's so gross to hear.
@@jasonpauldegraaf if women are preaching from the pulpit then you don't go to a conservative church.
@@spitfireap77 Nah, it means I don't go to a Fundamentalist church. Plenty of right-leaning churches allow women to speak.
@@jasonpauldegraaf ok
If this guy can stay married with that haircut, I believe him
He's divorced, that the centre of his book.
This discussion and its points are really good IF…. IF everyone realizes that this is all a TWO-WAY STREET.
Chris said so a couple of times but it may have gotten lost.
Yes, man really should learn how women see things, but women really should learn how men see things just as much.
If it’s a one way street and the man does all of these things for her and she’s happy… well he might be resentful as hell after all that one-way giving.
Then HE will walk.
This discussion is definitely valuable, but it would have held more value for more people if the “two-way-street” aspect of everything was explored equally.
Absolutely, I think that got lost... Was thinking they should have discussed that more.
But what motive does a woman have to understand men? They are, in her eyes, both expendable and a utility. She has no shortage of attention from men via social media/dating apps, and no shortage of funds from either the family court system or big daddy government. Unless she is a unicorn who doesn't gravitate toward blame and victimhood, she has every incentive to demand her own way or walk.
@@jasonpauldegraaf - That's a cynical was to see things, but I cannot say you're wrong. I have indeed encountered several women who operating on this premise.
Women spend their whole lives being socialized to cater to men, so we understand them very well. Men don't really understand how women think and that's where the problems come from.
Hills I will die on:
- Men and women have different roles in society.
- Having children is a blessing.
- Masculinity is good, and femininity is beautiful.
- Lack of strong male role models is #1 issue of our time.
What are yours?
I mean, all respect to Chris, whose podcast has been a great addition to my life as of recent and quickly became one of the very few things I currently follow up, but this guest, man...
...From the simple look and body language perspective, this guest looks and sounds off by a mile. As much as I don't want to use the term, "blue pill" is about the most precise term I can come up with to define him. And then there's his content, which sounds a lot like he's trying to make up for his failed relationship by outright simping.
I'm listening to this for entertainment values alone.
The thumbnail says it all.
Love the comparison of a wife/girlfriend to a 4 year old. That’s actually how it feels sometimes.
Then you're dating someone with the maturity of a toddler... congrats?
@@chupacabruh says the guy sleeping with his left hand tonight
@@JACKSBORO26EAGLES well according to you, you're sleeping with someone with the mental faculties of a child. So...
I fell bad for Chris. He is capable of more than being a book reviewer. I am sure he is getting tired of only talking to authors. He probably craves a conversation with someone not selling a book.
@@gregkirk1842 I am not saying it's a grift, I just suspect it could be a grind some days. His best podcasts are when they are not promoting a book. I do however understand that the book reviews pay the bills.
"you a BETAAAAAAA"-Jesse Lee Peterson
Question in regards to the "bad spose" stuff 16 minutes in - and it IS a question, I'd like to hear answers, I'm not trying to pick a fight or make a point here. So here goes:
The example Chris talks about, is a man who goes to work, comes home and pays the bills, and is "true to his woman", as he puts it. That's what this man has been taught he's supposed to do. But then the woman gets upset because he keeps leaving a glass near the sink, and that's what's important to her, so it annoys the hell out of her.
My question is - is this sort of scenario a problem universally, or is it something you see in privileged homes? Is the glass left near the sink a "luxyry problem"?
I grew up semi-poor, and my dad worked all day, and when he came home he immediately went out back to fix up old cars, which he sold. He made a fucking mess everywhere in the house, he wasn't as affectionate or "emotionally available" as men are expected to be today. But he did what he had to do, to keep our family afloat, (and succeeded). And my mom never bothered him about glasses near the sink, or oily handprints on the fridge, or any of that stuff. And I don't know whether that was just a generational thing, her personality, or maybe - and this is what I'm trying to figure out - maybe she realized that his efforts were vital, and he was doing everything he could, so "the little stuff" simply did not matter.
It's tough to be in a relationship with someone who has control issues
One of the things I really like about this podcast is that Chris lets his guests talk instead of interrupting them. It allows people to feel valued, seen, and heard by another person. Anyway, I thought this episode was interesting, but I feel bad for this guy - he was clearly really affected by his divorce. That's absolutely understandable. Nine years later, he still remembers the date his wife left and now he's focused on being a relationship coach with a new book out on the topic. Nothing wrong with improving your life after a massive change involving grief, but he kind of seemed to beat himself up about it all. I am not criticizing him for this, since he has clearly learned a lot and it must give him fulfillment to share advice. This was just my observation throughout the conversation. I hope he finds happiness!
Trust > love.... for so long, actually until about a month ago, I believed "love" trumped everything, even compulsive lying... man I had that hierarchy wrong! Thanks so much for spelling out what I had backwards for soooo so so so long!
I'd argue that true and real love fosters trust. If someone is constantly lying, manipulating, criticizing or whatever, they are not being loving (and aren't trustworthy.) A visible pattern of real love displayed in one's life (humility, generosity, putting others first) is what creates an environment where trust grows. Doesn't mean we should tolerate abusive people because that is enabling their dysfunction. Loving someone like that actually means holding up a mirror so they can see their problems and work towards correcting them, assuming they have some level of humility and can admit they have some crap to deal with.
Alot of "he for she"
All I'm getting is the guy should jump through as many hoops as possible to avoid a break up
No. Simply no to this dudes take.
Stop correcting other people and start connecting to them.
This guy's "insights" are hilarious... he conflates trust with communication and couples that with saying men should be kowtowing to unrealistic expectations of their partner and enabling their neurosis
Id like to know what you think are unrealistic expectations.
@@Opal5674 certainly different in each situation, but do recommend you look up Esther Perel - she does a great job at explaining that we seem to expect too much in the modern era and should try harder to give our loved ones grace, patience, and empathy. From the sound of it, this dudes wife gave up, and while he had his hand in it, it's not quite clear what accountability is on her for throwing in the towel
@@elee9124 Thing is from a womans perspective we dint even want a lot but men have to realize now most of us women are working too. We have jobs now and are expected to maintain the house. We know what it's like to work and come home and work. Men can no longer use the excuse of having a job so not having to do anything around the house. We'd like you to not lie, cheat. have substance abuse issues, and hopefully stay reasonably fit just like you expect us to. That's pretty much it
@@Opal5674 I appreciate your perspective, but where did this guy fail on those requirements/expectations? He should still be married by your measure...
Sounds like he's spent an awful lot of time trying to rationalize how leaving a glass on the counter destroyed his life... his wife was willing to wreck her home over this and pull the child away from their father... there is certainly something deeper here like he suggests
@@elee9124 Some people can't deal with the fact that women simply get bored and want to cash out. There's no mystery to it.
Women have unbelievably unrealistic expectations of men and marriage and most want to feel a deeply satisfying life that simply doesn't exist. Women leave simply because there's no reason for them to stay anymore. There's no consequence at all. Actually, cashing out is incentivised.
This is why women leave. Because they were built to not be satisfied. This is why divorce rate in lesbian couples is absurdly high, even more than heterosexual couples.
A lot of relationship issues could be cleaned up by people keeping a check on their own neuroticism. A glass left in the sink is not a declaration of war and seeing it as such is unacceptable. People need to work harder to grow up and mature their own perspectives.
I believe this guest has great advice and I appreciated the conversation. I think its kinda weird though that he is talking about his ex 9 years later and how terrible it was while also saying he doesn't think about her any more. If I was this women that would creep me out.
Non-violent communication talks about the need to be validated and felt understood. Was immediately diving into a story about the ex entirely necessary?
Chris, a thought or two: our brains are wired in the dopamine way that we do something often we stop liking it incrementally that much. Has rationale for the berries collecting, sure. What about relationships, why did mother nature / evolution wire us for such strong disconnect and misunderstanding between the sexes? Could it be evolution prefers if we stop understanding each other after some time and move on to other partner? I.e. the misunderstandings are not a flaw/ bug but a built in feature? Also, any recommendations re hobbies that one likes to do regularly in order to prevent dopamine dips and diminishing dopamine returns? Not sure how to build in pain aspect in hobbies like dancing etc.
I don't thik Matthew is a man that knows much about women. Or that had a lot of success with women. Not saying that I have, but man, he does not look like a player.
Never have a relationship at first place 😜
Funny how much of the accountability talk - in this interview and a few others w/ Chris - is aimed unmistakably at men. It’s a little baffling that He doesn’t see that women taking responsibility for their own bad behavior would ( generally) improve relations between men & women significantly.
As F&F put it, women are allergic to accountability.
Validating other people's feelings regardless of logic, what I saw "really happened", and view as the appropriate response, is one of the hardest things to remember to do. Definitely something I need to work on
Almost impossible man, my marriage is struggling right now because of this.
It's gaslighting mate not all feelings should be valid
Way too many generalities. Hard to find the meat in this long conversation.
At 44 y/o, I've seen a total of 2 healthy marriages in my life. So, that's a hard pass.
You can’t really love someone you can’t trust first.
Ah, I now see where I should’ve just left my partner. He was deaf to my problems, pretty much. He was probably doing it intentionally too. I should’ve just run…
That interview wasn't good ....
Or maybe just maybe we shouod tell people they are being unreasonable, when they are
Chris is struggling with Matthew here, that's for sure.
Did Chris say at 45:48 "People with penises"? Please tell me it was ironic or cynical or.......... something.
If she's in your frame she won't give a shit about the glass by the sink.
Wow, this guy is an extreme utilitarian, full on relativism. I’m sure if the only metric one cared about (being in a relationship) this is a fine tactic. I guess the point is as a modern man we should jettison all semblance of realism and how things really are working whether accurate or not (which is our evolutionarily inheritance for men on average) and for the reward of…possibly getting the respect that any normal person would give another that they are entangled with on any level. This sounds like the literal deal with the devil, give up everything you own and you will be happy. I and many others will not be joining you at the crossroads. One more point, how disdainful is this towards woman. They should be simply patted on the head instead of engaged with in a truthful, sincere fashion. I know some smart women, none of them want to be treated as lessors and for a simple reason, they are not. These people have a fundamental misunderstanding of what MEN are looking for as well, a counterpart.
Consider your “science”
0 seconds ago
In days of old, sexist double standards were upheld by the “God” endorsed sexism of religion. Nowadays, the majority of the justifications for red pill pornography philosophy sexism comes from evolutionary psychology.
What most people don’t seem to look into are the many attribution errors of evo psych. That is, in so many cases, the biases of the scientists and the scientific community in evo psych attribute their conclusions to NATURE when it is NURTURE (culture/societal influences and pressures).
Just 1 example is that men “age better” than women. I’m choosing this particular one because this belief is foundational to many of the rationalizations of double standards when it comes to women.
-for millions of years, humans didn’t even live past 35
-men who take a pill to assist the their erection… how is that “natural”. Many men past 35 rely on these pills.
-reproductive science now shows that men over 35 have sperm that causes abnormalities in children-such as autism (which is very serious), allergies and autoimmune problems
-younger women in times before religion (religion that established ability for rulers to rule beyond small tribes and thus set up patriarchal systems of control over women. Within those systems, powerful men could hoard resources and women were in positions of submission)
would have chosen the younger men… it’s natural. And younger men could go on long, tough adventures to hunt and drag back to camp big game. Younger men were better at protecting women. Only in patriarchal structures of oppression did women ever choose old men over young men.
-Even now, when young women or young men date older, the vast majority of cases are for resources.
Attribution error is rampant in evo psych and is used not in a rational, but in a very rationalizing way… it’s an attempt to uphold the same double standards of religion, now that religions influence is fading. These are just a few examples of things missed in evo psych!
If you always give in to a woman, she will come to despise you. You have to be very scrupulous when accommodating a woman you are in an intimate relationship with.
The more you challenge her to deserve satisfaction, the more she will admire you. If she admires you, you will both be happy.
The inverse is true as well.
Everything is defending the woman with this guy I fought and stayed through cheating and all to keep my kids and then she leaves takes them and all after me staying with her for the kids paid the bills and she and all her friends we miss all have many baby daddies now so no the man wants a wife we have none to choose from
5:30 bias in male an females
This was a thought-provoking interview. Appreciate the host, making the distinction in validation needs between male and females within a martial or mutual-relationship.
In reflection men and women share similarities in their overall humanity but also clear biological and psychological differences. Those differences ought not to be deluded, overlooked, or ignored by either party. Blurred lines just make things blurry. Being able to see people for who they are in a relationship and making an informed decision to accept them or not is meaningful too.
Of course, more could be said but in regards to this session, it was at 1st a little off-putting to seemingly compare a woman to a child that needs sympathetic TLC when they're in pain. However, the concept and overall message offered insightful advice on how to secure longevity in a relationship.
The 'invalidation Tripple Threat' was thoughtfully conveyed. It seems important to note not to readily dismiss the thoughts and feelings of others who are upset or who are experiencing suffering. The male ability to properly offer comfort and safety in a relationship may be extremely important to some women.
It seems important to address those little issues too along the way as mentioned that can add up to a massive meltdown. However, it seems mutual self-sacrifice in trust & love can help couples endure too.
These interviews on this channel although not seemingly faith-based have offered intriguing perspectives on certain issues. Actually wouldn't mind hearing more presentations from the host himself as he seems to have many insightful thought-provoking things to say as well. Enjoyed listening to his input or commentary in this session too.
What is the function of marriage, not happiness, but to raise the next generation in a good environment, happiness is not a factor, how empty is an oath that can be broken due to dishes left in the sink. This should tell you everything that is necessary and relevant!
@@eddie-ni5ox I definitely agree that marraige ought not to be based on happiness. For happiness itself is based on temporal happy happenings. We ought to be responsible for our own happiness and not sole rely on another to make us happy. Measuring martial contentment sole based on ones ever-changing emotional states can cause a relationship to become unstable over time as well. It does seem fickle at first with the example described of a dish left in the sink that was highlighted to be a contributing factor over time to a marital break down. However it seems this event was highlighted as a precursor to an underlining issue of accumulated differing perception of actions that seemed to be fleshed out in the interview that actually resulted in the martial break down.
Overall, the exclusivity of marriage seems the strongest where self-centeredness or self-absorbtion, and the lack of giving is not excessively present in either partner. Basically if one becomes married its not all about you anymore its important to consider the other person's preferences or perceptions and work them out hopefully in love together as one. If a couple Is given the opportunity to raise the next generation in a marital arrangement hopefully they will raise strong and wise individuals that can also properly discern the lies of unhealthy nonsense. 🙂
The story about tension over a glass being left on a bench top clearly shows the complex disaster of relationships . Who cares or has time to fathom these things.
It's not about the glass by the sink.
The glass by the sink is ridiculous. No wonder she left🤦
" we better give a shit " best red pill responses
Almost every single time I've seen a relationship end, it's cos the guy is treating his wife like a maid. Maybe on top of that he's cheating. In the very rare occasions where it's the guy who left, it's cos she did something HORRIBLE, like a terrible crime or something. Also, it's unhealthy grooming, the way Chris jokes about "members of his cult". A red flag....
Cheating is pretty bad, treating someone like a maid is going to get old pretty fast. What crimes did the women commit?
❤️❤️😃😃👍👍🙏🙏
I'd take an hour of Chris roasting the redpill community any day.
Woman take
Men operate on logic an reason. Women on emotion, incompatible language.
They don't and "logic" isn't all it's cracked up to be. Watch Dr Ian McGilchrist's videos on brain hemispheres.