*I am an ex-convict of California's system, too. Folks don't know how hard it is to get into the Fire Prog. You have to be above reproach in your facility. No one will hire me. I was convicted for involuntary manslaughter. I can't go back to being a phlebotomist/lab technologist. All that education and yrs of practice because I had pain meds in my medicine chest that a girl almost 18 stole, O.D.-ed, and died. Beyond capricious.* R.I.P. Kelsea. I loved you then, I love you now.
The problem seems to be getting worse vs better. I was charged with bs charges. Luckily I proved my innocence by showing the police "mustakes" (lies) on the police report. I got charges dismissed. However, just being arrested and charged is keeping me from gainful employment.
Why is this not a violation of the 5th amendment which states : "No person shall ..... be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law." Then there is the 8th amendment: "nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted." It would seem the state of Fornicalia considers itself a law unto itself. The denial is adding unlawfully to his sentence and is a form of taking for which he is not being compensated for as required in the 5th amendment.
The bizarre aspect of this is that California is one of the states that claims to believe in rehabilitation of convicts. I guess they only mean it when your name is Lawrence Singleton.
Well if he is truly reformed, and has kept clean, then he can go back to court, get his record expunged, and move on with his life. Why do these clowns not even discuss that option
@@cowboyx9380 You are wrong, in California, felony convictions can only be expunged if: no time was served in state prison. That means that you are punished for life and can never be rehabilitated in the eyes of the law, which is stupid. I thought that the goal is to rehabilitate people to be useful to society but the law will punish you for life which means that the punishment does not fit the crime. If you served time your record should be automatically expunged. If they think that you are not rehabilitated then change the law to have a longer sentence because you should be in prison if you are not rehabilitated.
But no, you are punished for life and can never be rehabilitated in the eyes of the law, which is stupid. If it is not possible to rehabilitate, then every sentence should be for life.
It is INFURIATING!!! He did his time in prison. I thought the entire purpose of prison was “penance”? By prohibiting him or anyone to continue to be punished is shameful. Best wishes and thoughts being triumphant to the case!
A "good person" is completely subjective and has no place as a metric in the legal system. Who may be a good person to one judge, might be a vile criminal to another.
If the judge requires you to PROVE you’re, “a good person”, as required by law, the very same law, is requisite of the judge. Sounds like a stand-off ? Godspeed
I worked at the Sierra Conservation Center teaching structural firefighting and always wondered if inmates could find employment after release. These exclusionary laws seem to be a discriminatory continuation of the justice system.
Plea deals should come with an instructional pamphlet delineating collateral consequences, just so the acceptance is informed one. It should be required and time allowed to peruse it and absorb their meaning. To say nothing of the defence attorney being knowledgeable of them to inform the defendant. Should be like Miranda. If not provided consequences to the prosecution and the conviction should also obtain. These deals seem to rely on fear, and time pressure, inducing rushed, hasty decisions.
30 years in prison with Ben Dover or admit guilt and get a 1-year sentence in a minimum-security facility but that is not extortion.... seriously the people who run the system said so ....and and it is not a conflict of interest we SWEAR! sure buddy ....
I was a volunteer Firefighter. I was trained at the medical level of first responder. They wanted me to become an EMT but I got appointed as Station Captain (We had 3 stations) and they decided that I was more valuable in that position and as an engineer so I never went to the EMT training. Many times we responded to medical emergencies as volunteers and then the neighboring city's ambulance would come onto the scene (outdoors & on highways as well as in peoples houses). So there we were; volunteers and paid firefighters working side by side to save someone's life. You could not tell us apart as we all wore the same firefighting gear. So I agree if he can do it as a volunteer, he probably has some of the very training as the professional. What a stupid law. When one serves his time; it should be over.
Seems like there should be some sort of exceptions process or waiver that the hiring fire department could use to get him on board. I understand the idea that committing felonies should earn you a stiff penalty, but there has to be a pathway to fully reenter society. Wouldn't that reduce recidivism?
Being a Medic, I know the reason why the ban is in place. Just like in my state, EMS providers are held to a much higher level of public trust, even higher than police or fire fighters becuase no other form of public safety is required to strip someone down naked for treating injuries or certain medical conditions no matter what the age of the patient even kids. Yes, even basic EMT'S are required to do that in most states. We also have immeadiate and direct access to narcotics and other drugs. Due to these reasosns, most states mandate no felonies are allowed in EMS. With all that being said, especially in Comifornia, they have made damned near anythig any particular politician feels is bad, into felonies, along with so many other bs "laws" that should be protected under the US Constitution but states and courts repeatedly refuse to uphold what should be freedom because it doesn't align wih their current political standing. I think that pretty much all the laws these states have enacted should be scrapped in mass and he punishments should fit the crimes.
I would welcome that man anytime into my home! Who cares? He has turned his life around and that is all that matters. Thank You IJ for helping and fighting for him. My BEST wishes!
I remember many years ago after hurricane Katrina hit Louisiana there was a story about a kind elderly lady in Louisiana who welcolmed 2 ex-felons into her home after a hurricane destroyed a large # of homes by the gulf coast. It sounded like a heartwarming story in which the men seemed so grateful, gentle/kind, & soft spoken at the time. That was until the 2 men decided to show their gratitude by murdering the lady & then running off after robbing her. I would NOT "welcome" an ex-felon convicted of a "violent crime" into my family home without a care in the world.
Once you are in the system they won't stop the relentless pursuit to ruin your life. No forgiveness, no compassion, just the promise to hold you as second class citizen wth no rights? We are subject to such a vindictive judicial system.
It's because of the dog-and-pony show of morality that we rarely address the underlying issues of unhealthy human behavior. Morality over reason is insanity - infantilism at best.
This problem gets worse not better (like the entire system) I was charged with bs trumped up charges that I finally got dismissed. Even though they dismissed charges (after a yr & a few grand) I now have an arrest record Just being arrested and charged is keeping me from gainful employment even though they dismissed my charges after I refused plea & proved my innocence. I wish I could have faith in this institute for justice, but the system is too shot out. Too little too late. We don't have a justice system. We have a conviction system. The judicial has failed us more than any other branch in that it's allowed the other 2 branches to fester & rot to a point beyond repair . We have law makers writing catch all statutes. Mandatory arrest all police policies. Prosecutors job description is to get as many convictions as fast as possible. More convictions = job security for judges. Defense attorneys getting work and pay from the gov it's supposed to be opposing. Criminal court procedure written by a think tank funded by kock bros. What could possibly go wrong? The damn County clerk even got in on violating My rights by not providing me a reason for not giving me police report. She kept leading me to believe that she was getting it for me. It's a sick joke! "Justice is lost. Justice is raped. Justice is done" (or something or other) Metallica
Hell I went to prison for 2 years, over $800 in scrap metal, I've been out for 7 years and I am married with kids and I can't even carry pepper spray to defend my family..the government should not be able to take a right from you that they never gave you in the first place
If they won't let a person who wants to be a first responder after he served his prison time they could be denying the citizens a person who could save lives.
This is the down fall of America. Too many are already incarcerated and now are unemployable . What is left for a grown man , an education that many gained to only be legally allowed to scrub toilets. Shame on political and legal system.
Depriving people of the ability to earn an honest living, find stable housing, and get driver's licenses etc. is essentially breaking down any positive self-worth they have established while simultaneously ensuring their exclusion from the community, the very thing that incentivizes people to act in the best interest of themselves and others. What do we think a person that is filled with self-hatred, is hungry, angry, hurt, lonely and has nothing and no one to lose, is likely to do? This is not a long jump in consequential logic, it therefore cannot be denied as accidental legislation. There has to be either room for redemption or a merciful death. Life without the possibility of making yourself and your place in the world whole again is a torture afforded to far too many people to result in a society that isn't mired in vengeful retaliation.
Well said! A society/community that does everything in it's power to destabilize an individual under the pretense of some mercurial sense of morality is nothing more than a bully collective that will only get more of what they refuse to embrace as an inevitable consequence of it's failings to support learning, healing, and growth of both the individual and the collective. Infantilism reigns supreme, sadly.
@@DEEPMOODYPURPLEBLUES as long as that's an assessment not a resignation. I encounter way too many 4 yr olds 2 hrs past naptime in adult society everyday. I revolt with utter joie de vivre, like tampon commercial happy, it really pisses most miserable people off. Occasionally I'll get a defector to smile with me. That's the best.
Bad car accident I'm trapped in the car ,I'm slowly bleeding out. Hey don't let that excon with low moral character touch me I'd rather die than to let someone thats done time to save my life and let see my family again are you crazy. I tell you the human race is just insane.
Being an EMT is utterly unrelated to whether you can be trusted to do so in some particular official capacity. Preventing people from getting certified to save lives can only be ignorant, sadistic tyranny.
nobody but pedos have that right in California! And backdoor intruders to a certain degree, compare the re - opened gay bath houses in San Fran n their lesser guidances/ orders to watch for locked doors and sexual interactions within their rooms to the hair salons that MUST only serve outside.
These restrictions are effectively retroactive, additional punishment for crimes already adjudicated and sentenced. On its face, these would appear to have the same effect as unConstitutional retroactive laws. CONSTITUTIONALLY, the restrictions would apply ONLY to those convicted AFTER the restrictions were enacted.
There is not one adult age 30 or older who has not committed a felony if you think you haven't than you don't know the laws you are just lucky enough to have not gotten caught once your sentence ends you should get all rights back including firearms
The competition for municipal fire fighting positions is fierce among law abiding applicants. There is no shortage of qualified applicants. Victimless crimes should be eliminated from our courts altogether, but if someone has a record of violent opportunistic predatory crimes, in other words, they have been a dangerous menace to the community, then we must protect the public and prevent them from filling jobs that may present opportunity for them to harm again. For example, a recovering, formerly known low functioning alcoholic would make a less than ideal bar manager.
There's no reason someone who was arrested for embezzlement shouldn't be able to be an accountant. Just audit their work. If the system doesn't actually rehabilitate it's pure tyranny anyway.
Why isn’t there a movement to abolish useless laws. Can you write a law that abolishes previous laws with out being specific. Just a as crime prevents you from certain jobs with out being specific as to the crime. Can you write a law that limits the number of laws active at any given time. Pass a new law delete and old law.
If a criminal pays his dues to society, he is no longer a criminal. Unless they are a repeat offender that can't learn how to function in society, they should be getting all their rights back.
As Uncle Willard states in a previous post "there should be some exception process". However, he committed felonies, felonies are serious crimes, so there were victims. Maybe the exemption should come from the victims. By far the majority of the post here forget about the people who were hurt.
Where does these lawyers pay for service come from? Felonies are Federal convictions meaning loss of SSI benefits among others. Another case you will not win as sure as death, taxes, and Child Support.
This is glorious karma and justice all in one. From the last experiment CA did burning landfill garbage instead of cleaning Tahoe. When Tahoe burns it will stop. Until then, you might want to stay awake as it all has to burn now. 18 years of prayer.
Some of the reasons for the felony ban are those with the EMT certification could and will go into the homes of patients/victims. They are also privy to sensitive personal and financial information of those they have been tasked with taking care of. That is not to say EMTs that don't have felony convictions could not do harm with the information, but it is assumed those that have felony convictions could more likely use the information in a nefarious way. I say changing the law would be a faster route than what is happening now by the IJ. As we all know, when one is convicted (*or pleas) they do so under duress and are not necessarily looking 10-15 years down the road. People change and can do good. Current laws rarely afford this person to do good and almost always dome them to low-paying unfulfilling jobs. A law/statute change would benefit many people in the US.
The CDF (California Department of Forestry, or California Dog F----ers to those who know them), has deep rooted problems that go back to before the 1970s . The whole thing needs to be dismantled and replaced. In fact the whole state system could use an overhaul to say the least. The CDF should be experts working with out political interference, but we all know that is impossible.
The majority of these “felonies” are bullshit crimes and patently ridiculous: possessing marijuana with intent to sell, possessing cocaine, driving on a suspended license, etc. How pathetic can one state be?
Aren't being in jail or prison. There main objective is rehabilitation those person.. he did what they wanted out him after he completed his sentence. Hire him.
Why is this not a violation of the 5th amendment which states : "No person shall ..... be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law." Then there is the 8th amendment: "nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted." It would seem the state of Fornicalia considers itself a law unto itself. The denial is adding unlawfully to his sentence and is a form of taking for which he is not being compensated for as required in the 5th amendment.
Pro Tip, IJ: When you fail to disclose what your client was convicted of, astute viewers assume that it’s something heinous. In this case, the convictions appear to have been for possessing a concealed dagger and assault (source: www.firelawblog.com/2020/06/22/lawsuit-challenges-california-limits-on-two-time-felons-becoming-emts/). Because you didn’t state what his convictions were for, my first assumption was that he was a child molester. The second conviction was for an incident that occurred while he was under the influence of alcohol and drugs. While I can see arguments for not letting somebody with a history of substance abuse work in emergency services, this logic is undermined by California allowing him to perform this work in any capacity, so they clearly don’t consider his record a major safety risk. Bottom line: give full disclosure, or else people assume that you have a good REASON to hide this stuff from your audience.
I am willing to bet and if that woman paid a p. I. To look into that judges everyday life I bet they could find ugly in that one as well. But then TRUTHFULLY? Now it's way too easy to fool many. All we have to do is look at our faith business
Tough on Crime is about catering to the segment of the population that doesn't believe in second chances, don't believe in personal change, that believes how you act as a younger person is how you'll act as an older person.
Sounds like a whole lot more people need to simply fight thier cases and not plead out. If the courts had to find a jury and schedule these trials in a reasonable time they would not be able too if 90% went to trial instead of 10%
Wow! So misbehavior has consequences. All other things being equal, and I have no felony convictions, why shouldn't I get the job ahead of a convict? There should be no reward for having a clean record? Since no information is given about the convictions, they might have been about drugs. If that's the case, that convict should be excluded from any sort of medical certification. Institute for Justice would be better-named Institute for Zero Consequences.
Don't say EMT's are ambulance drivers. EMT's in the USA cover eighty to ninety of all EMS calls in the USA by ourselves has first in. EMT'S have different certificates including paramedic. We provide the first level of critical care. Stop looking at us that way as a driver, do your research before stating such pathetic statement.
How can any felon become a productive part of society if you are still serving time years after being released? Part of rehabilitation is becoming a productive citizen.
With some exceptions I say, if you deem a convict worthy of rejoining society then stop crippling them. More evidence that some politicians are more interested in the wealth to be made from keeping the prison system full. Sounds like to me that he moved beyond his past. Let him stand up and move on.
A society that makes laws to criminalize human behavior but doesn't make any serious efforts to understand human behavior and the myriad societal failings that directly affect behavior is doomed - look around you - we are suffering an apocalyptic dearth of self-awareness. All of this rehabilitation/punishment rhetoric is infantile.
Maybe you don't want a convicted murderer coming into your home when he has been released, BUT, someone who maybe broke into a few cars 10 years ago ? The law makes no sense.
"Arbitrarily categorized as a felony"? Surely, that statement has only been uttered in California, by someone with less than a decade in their trade. Felonies are not arbitrarily handed out, classified, or casually tossed on the back of a chair like your boyfriends skinny jeans, buddy. They are earned. He's shown he can't or wont follow the law. Twice. Now you want this man to possibly have access to Narcan, or other types of first aid drugs? Hmmmm. A Fireman employed by the State of California. Maybe he would be a model fireman, but since he's shown himself to be unable to follow the laws on more than one occasion, the taxpayers should not be dealt that risk. Statistically speaking, he will commit a, or several, crime(s) again. There are other applicants that likely have zero felonies on their record and those are the ones they should continue to hire. Consequences. A Key and Peele skit, they aren't. Commit a crime, and doing jail time is only the beginning. This message is not new. Your rights to possess firearms and vote are gone. You are marked for life. Maybe he should spend some time spreading that message to prevent others from following suit? You believe in him, or other reformed persons so much, you hire them. Don't tell the taxpaying public that they have to do it just because you're a bleeding heart. Given the opportunity, this person will likely show themselves to not follow the rules of society again. The odds are completely behind that assertion, no matter how upset it may make you. I hope I'm wrong, but the stats dont lie, and the taxpayers shouldn't be made to have any stake in that bet. Who am i kidding? Its California. They will likely promote the fucker to Captain and give him his own show or something. If they haven't already.
People who have committed a crime can change for the good. The apostle Paul said to the people ( thieves drunkards revellers adultery is what some of you WHERE BUT YOU MADE YOURSELFS CLEAN WASHING THERE ROBES IN THE BLOOD OF CHRIST) So GOD'S word SAYS change is possible.
I seem to recall the guy they named their religion after hanging out with the so-called dregs of humanity, and only ever getting angry with the money-changers in the temple. Morality usurping reason has given the world nothing but problems for millennia. As if an omnipotent creator is going to give us a brain with such capacity for logic and reason but demand we not use it...smh
I hope these lawyers have kids so they can raise them without consequences . They then a battle for them like hell when they become felons. I raised my kids w definite consequences and they turned out great. This guy committed 2 felons that obviously were deals so we will never know what he really did. So now he can work fires and be paid. He wants some body o give him a permanent job we’re he can never be fired from. I don’t think they should take the risk when there are many outstanding kids that should be hired first.
@@zeitgeistx5239 wildland and structure are two different beasts. One does not fully qualify for the other. That doesn't mean that I'm not here for a good redemption arc but their conflation of the two careers is disingenuous and misleading.
So basically God for bid anybody should ever be anywhere around him I need to have their life saved by him because of the choices he made long ago he can’t save anybody’s life that’s a no no ?🤦🏻♀️
I'm sorry I don't side with you on this one you said that his father is a sheriff well that tells me that he was afforded more than just equal protection he had his father to give him some insight as to what he was getting into earlier on you guys said a lot of people are able to get their felonies plead down to misdemeanors, how do you know his felonies wasn't much higher and that they were not plead down to where they ended up being? Notwithstanding he has two felonies why couldn't he have learned his lesson when his dad told him not to do wrong, why couldn't he have learned his lesson when he got caught the first time , why couldn't he learned his lesson when he got convicted the first time, equal protection under the law essentially means everybody's treated the same so why should he be treated with extra favor because he wants to be a firefighter which doesn't have provisions the felony holders. You have a right to earn some money obviously doesn't have to be firefighting nor does it have to be in California nevertheless stay out of trouble
Yes yes I do ....if you want to choose who rescue you then next time your in a terrible traffic accident the first guy to show up may or may not be a ex.con make sure you ask before they do their job
The state is right! A felon, (an ADULT, who was CONVICTED of a FELONY, in this case TWO) should not have the right, or privilege, to occupy a public service position which requires that employees be of a higher moral character. Perhaps listening to his father, who apparently was a sheriff, would have helped him preserve his right to apply for, and occupy, prestigious positions within the government! Despite your assertions that "other people have been plead down the misdemeanors" has NOTHING to do with these facts. That's a disingenuous representation of the facts to be kind. Anyone who takes a plea deal for a lower conviction has that right because they haven't burned that bridge by having MULTIPLE arrests and MULTIPLE convictions. It sounds to me like the law, despite being on the books in California, is actually RIGHT. Remorse about having given up his opportunities is not the state's fault, nor the fault of all of the aspiring heroes of the younger generation who are working hard to stay clean and fly straight!
iTunes: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/deep-dive-with-the-institute-for-justice/id1480726134
Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/35xKoi0948xMAEW45Wzga7
Google: www.google.com/podcasts?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9pai5vcmcvZmVlZC9kZWVwLWRpdmUv
Sticher: www.stitcher.com/podcast/institute-for-justice-2/deep-dive-with-the-institute-for-justice?refid=stpr
*I am an ex-convict of California's system, too. Folks don't know how hard it is to get into the Fire Prog. You have to be above reproach in your facility. No one will hire me. I was convicted for involuntary manslaughter. I can't go back to being a phlebotomist/lab technologist. All that education and yrs of practice because I had pain meds in my medicine chest that a girl almost 18 stole, O.D.-ed, and died. Beyond capricious.* R.I.P. Kelsea. I loved you then, I love you now.
Isn't this a violation of the exessive fines in the 8th amendment ?
I guess it isn't into responding to its viewers.
The problem seems to be getting worse vs better.
I was charged with bs charges. Luckily I proved my innocence by showing the police "mustakes" (lies) on the police report.
I got charges dismissed.
However, just being arrested and charged is keeping me from gainful employment.
Why is this not a violation of the 5th amendment which states : "No person shall ..... be deprived of life, liberty, or property,
without due process of law." Then there is the 8th amendment: "nor excessive
fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted." It would seem the state of Fornicalia considers itself a law unto itself. The denial is adding unlawfully to his sentence and is a form of taking for which he is not being compensated for as required in the 5th amendment.
You have to let these people progress. If you dont they will just commit more crime. Stop punishing people for life
The bizarre aspect of this is that California is one of the states that claims to believe in rehabilitation of convicts. I guess they only mean it when your name is Lawrence Singleton.
Well if he is truly reformed, and has kept clean, then he can go back to court, get his record expunged, and move on with his life. Why do these clowns not even discuss that option
@@cowboyx9380 You are wrong, in California, felony convictions can only be expunged if: no time was served in state prison.
That means that you are punished for life and can never be rehabilitated in the eyes of the law, which is stupid. I thought that the goal is to rehabilitate people to be useful to society but the law will punish you for life which means that the punishment does not fit the crime. If you served time your record should be automatically expunged. If they think that you are not rehabilitated then change the law to have a longer sentence because you should be in prison if you are not rehabilitated.
@@cowboyx9380 How about this: SHUT UP. PAY ATTENTION. LEARN SOMETHING for once.
@@closer71 You mad bruh? Always the keyboard pooh-seas gettin tough on the internet.
He served his time.
But no, you are punished for life and can never be rehabilitated in the eyes of the law, which is stupid. If it is not possible to rehabilitate, then every sentence should be for life.
John Rice. Unfortunately he is still serving time.
Why can’t he get his EMT certification from another state ? I hope you win the case for this firefighter.
It is INFURIATING!!! He did his time in prison. I thought the entire purpose of prison was “penance”? By prohibiting him or anyone to continue to be punished is shameful.
Best wishes and thoughts being triumphant to the case!
A "good person" is completely subjective and has no place as a metric in the legal system. Who may be a good person to one judge, might be a vile criminal to another.
If the judge requires you to PROVE you’re, “a good person”,
as required by law, the very same law, is requisite of the judge.
Sounds like a stand-off ?
Godspeed
Les miserables "20 years a slave to law" "I stole a piece of bread" written in 1862 still a problem.
Dude, but it was bread, dude, you have any idea what a criminal can do with a piece of bread, dude??? We gotta lock them up for life dude!!!
Thank You For Your Long-Form, Collaborative, Clear & Concise Presentations & For Fighting The Good Fight For Justice For "We The People"!
How is denial putting up a good fight?
I worked at the Sierra Conservation Center teaching structural firefighting and always wondered if inmates could find employment after release. These exclusionary laws seem to be a discriminatory continuation of the justice system.
These laws are examples of criminal stupidity.
Plea deals should come with an instructional pamphlet delineating collateral consequences, just so the acceptance is informed one. It should be required and time allowed to peruse it and absorb their meaning. To say nothing of the defence attorney being knowledgeable of them to inform the defendant. Should be like Miranda. If not provided consequences to the prosecution and the conviction should also obtain. These deals seem to rely on fear, and time pressure, inducing rushed, hasty decisions.
30 years in prison with Ben Dover or admit guilt and get a 1-year sentence in a minimum-security facility but that is not extortion.... seriously the people who run the system said so ....and and it is not a conflict of interest we SWEAR! sure buddy ....
@@Barskor1 Then the whole 'collateral' consequences that are entirely administrative....
My brother is going through the same thing in washington state they're classifying Him as a volunteer but working annually
I was a volunteer Firefighter. I was trained at the medical level of first responder. They wanted me to become an EMT but I got appointed as Station Captain (We had 3 stations) and they decided that I was more valuable in that position and as an engineer so I never went to the EMT training.
Many times we responded to medical emergencies as volunteers and then the neighboring city's ambulance would come onto the scene (outdoors & on highways as well as in peoples houses). So there we were; volunteers and paid firefighters working side by side to save someone's life. You could not tell us apart as we all wore the same firefighting gear. So I agree if he can do it as a volunteer, he probably has some of the very training as the professional. What a stupid law. When one serves his time; it should be over.
Seems like there should be some sort of exceptions process or waiver that the hiring fire department could use to get him on board. I understand the idea that committing felonies should earn you a stiff penalty, but there has to be a pathway to fully reenter society. Wouldn't that reduce recidivism?
Being a Medic, I know the reason why the ban is in place. Just like in my state, EMS providers are held to a much higher level of public trust, even higher than police or fire fighters becuase no other form of public safety is required to strip someone down naked for treating injuries or certain medical conditions no matter what the age of the patient even kids. Yes, even basic EMT'S are required to do that in most states. We also have immeadiate and direct access to narcotics and other drugs. Due to these reasosns, most states mandate no felonies are allowed in EMS. With all that being said, especially in Comifornia, they have made damned near anythig any particular politician feels is bad, into felonies, along with so many other bs "laws" that should be protected under the US Constitution but states and courts repeatedly refuse to uphold what should be freedom because it doesn't align wih their current political standing.
I think that pretty much all the laws these states have enacted should be scrapped in mass and he punishments should fit the crimes.
I would welcome that man anytime into my home! Who cares? He has turned his life around and that is all that matters. Thank You IJ for helping and fighting for him. My BEST wishes!
I remember many years ago after hurricane Katrina hit Louisiana there was a story about a kind elderly lady in Louisiana who welcolmed 2 ex-felons into her home after a hurricane destroyed a large # of homes by the gulf coast. It sounded like a heartwarming story in which the men seemed so grateful, gentle/kind, & soft spoken at the time. That was until the 2 men decided to show their gratitude by murdering the lady & then running off after robbing her. I would NOT "welcome" an ex-felon convicted of a "violent crime" into my family home without a care in the world.
@@randys6220 i heard about a puppy that killed someone once, that's why you shouldn't open your home to any dogs, either.
Once you are in the system they won't stop the relentless pursuit to ruin your life.
No forgiveness, no compassion, just the promise to hold you as second class citizen wth no
rights? We are subject to such a vindictive judicial system.
America is little more than a factory farm at this point. smdh
As a felon your debt to society is never paid. I believe that its part of the reason recidivism rates are so high.
It's because of the dog-and-pony show of morality that we rarely address the underlying issues of unhealthy human behavior. Morality over reason is insanity - infantilism at best.
This problem gets worse not better (like the entire system)
I was charged with bs trumped up charges that I finally got dismissed.
Even though they dismissed charges (after a yr & a few grand) I now have an arrest record
Just being arrested and charged is keeping me from gainful employment even though they dismissed my charges after I refused plea & proved my innocence.
I wish I could have faith in this institute for justice, but the system is too shot out. Too little too late.
We don't have a justice system. We have a conviction system.
The judicial has failed us more than any other branch in that it's allowed the other 2 branches to fester & rot to a point beyond repair .
We have law makers writing catch all statutes.
Mandatory arrest all police policies.
Prosecutors job description is to get as many convictions as fast as possible.
More convictions = job security for judges.
Defense attorneys getting work and pay from the gov it's supposed to be opposing.
Criminal court procedure written by a think tank funded by kock bros.
What could possibly go wrong?
The damn County clerk even got in on violating My rights by not providing me a reason for not giving me police report. She kept leading me to believe that she was getting it for me.
It's a sick joke!
"Justice is lost. Justice is raped. Justice is done" (or something or other)
Metallica
Hell I went to prison for 2 years, over $800 in scrap metal, I've been out for 7 years and I am married with kids and I can't even carry pepper spray to defend my family..the government should not be able to take a right from you that they never gave you in the first place
It's far deeper than that. No Treason; The Constitution of No Authority - Lysander Spooner
If they won't let a person who wants to be a first responder after he served his prison time they could be denying the citizens a person who could save lives.
You guys are wonderful. Thank you for what you do.
This is the down fall of America. Too many are already incarcerated and now are unemployable . What is left for a grown man , an education that many gained to only be legally allowed to scrub toilets. Shame on political and legal system.
Depriving people of the ability to earn an honest living, find stable housing, and get driver's licenses etc. is essentially breaking down any positive self-worth they have established while simultaneously ensuring their exclusion from the community, the very thing that incentivizes people to act in the best interest of themselves and others. What do we think a person that is filled with self-hatred, is hungry, angry, hurt, lonely and has nothing and no one to lose, is likely to do? This is not a long jump in consequential logic, it therefore cannot be denied as accidental legislation. There has to be either room for redemption or a merciful death. Life without the possibility of making yourself and your place in the world whole again is a torture afforded to far too many people to result in a society that isn't mired in vengeful retaliation.
Well said! A society/community that does everything in it's power to destabilize an individual under the pretense of some mercurial sense of morality is nothing more than a bully collective that will only get more of what they refuse to embrace as an inevitable consequence of it's failings to support learning, healing, and growth of both the individual and the collective. Infantilism reigns supreme, sadly.
@@DEEPMOODYPURPLEBLUES as long as that's an assessment not a resignation. I encounter way too many 4 yr olds 2 hrs past naptime in adult society everyday. I revolt with utter joie de vivre, like tampon commercial happy, it really pisses most miserable people off. Occasionally I'll get a defector to smile with me. That's the best.
MAKES NO SENSE TO TRAIN ANYONE TO DO A JOB THEY CAN'T LEGALLY HOLD...TOTALLY WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY..
Bad car accident I'm trapped in the car ,I'm slowly bleeding out. Hey don't let that excon with low moral character touch me I'd rather die than to let someone thats done time to save my life and let see my family again are you crazy. I tell you the human race is just insane.
Being an EMT is utterly unrelated to whether you can be trusted to do so in some particular official capacity. Preventing people from getting certified to save lives can only be ignorant, sadistic tyranny.
God I hate that term. We are Not “Ambulance Drivers”
Someone has to drive the ambulance. Get over it. You have much more important things to focus on.
Your a world class bls provider
Keep Pressing!
Does he not have the right to pursue Happiness???
nobody but pedos have that right in California! And backdoor intruders to a certain degree, compare the re - opened gay bath houses in San Fran n their lesser guidances/ orders to watch for locked doors and sexual interactions within their rooms to the hair salons that MUST only serve outside.
These restrictions are effectively retroactive, additional punishment for crimes already adjudicated and sentenced. On its face, these would appear to have the same effect as unConstitutional retroactive laws. CONSTITUTIONALLY, the restrictions would apply ONLY to those convicted AFTER the restrictions were enacted.
There is not one adult age 30 or older who has not committed a felony if you think you haven't than you don't know the laws you are just lucky enough to have not gotten caught once your sentence ends you should get all rights back including firearms
This is what stopped me from being a FF, because I made a mistake when I was 18.
The competition for municipal fire fighting positions is fierce among law abiding applicants. There is no shortage of qualified applicants. Victimless crimes should be eliminated from our courts altogether, but if someone has a record of violent opportunistic predatory crimes, in other words, they have been a dangerous menace to the community, then we must protect the public and prevent them from filling jobs that may present opportunity for them to harm again. For example, a recovering, formerly known low functioning alcoholic would make a less than ideal bar manager.
There's no reason someone who was arrested for embezzlement shouldn't be able to be an accountant. Just audit their work. If the system doesn't actually rehabilitate it's pure tyranny anyway.
Why isn’t there a movement to abolish useless laws. Can you write a law that abolishes previous laws with out being specific. Just a as crime prevents you from certain jobs with out being specific as to the crime.
Can you write a law that limits the number of laws active at any given time. Pass a new law delete and old law.
Can't be a fire fighter but you can be a congressman
If a criminal pays his dues to society, he is no longer a criminal. Unless they are a repeat offender that can't learn how to function in society, they should be getting all their rights back.
If I drank every time he said "you know"...⚰🪦
"Let California burn" is what I hear!
There are private fire prevention firms. He should look into it.
As Uncle Willard states in a previous post "there should be some exception process". However, he committed felonies, felonies are serious crimes, so there were victims. Maybe the exemption should come from the victims. By far the majority of the post here forget about the people who were hurt.
Felonies are not serious crimes. Some felonies are serious crimes. And that ratio gets worse every day.
People change and make mistakes. This man is a hero regardless of his past make him chief.
Where does these lawyers pay for service come from? Felonies are Federal convictions meaning loss of SSI benefits among others. Another case you will not win as sure as death, taxes, and Child Support.
War on drugs.
Only a criminal that may wind up in prison would think that forgetting about his past because he's doing great at lip service is a good thing.
This is glorious karma and justice all in one. From the last experiment CA did burning landfill garbage instead of cleaning Tahoe. When Tahoe burns it will stop. Until then, you might want to stay awake as it all has to burn now. 18 years of prayer.
You should see how badly California treats those who've been injured on the job..
Permanent punishment is defacto immoral, unconstitutional, and illegal.
Thank you.
Train them to say sorry you're a felon so no way for you to become a full time hire.
Well this is Commiefornia
Some of the reasons for the felony ban are those with the EMT certification could and will go into the homes of patients/victims. They are also privy to sensitive personal and financial information of those they have been tasked with taking care of. That is not to say EMTs that don't have felony convictions could not do harm with the information, but it is assumed those that have felony convictions could more likely use the information in a nefarious way.
I say changing the law would be a faster route than what is happening now by the IJ.
As we all know, when one is convicted (*or pleas) they do so under duress and are not necessarily looking 10-15 years down the road. People change and can do good. Current laws rarely afford this person to do good and almost always dome them to low-paying unfulfilling jobs.
A law/statute change would benefit many people in the US.
The CDF (California Department of Forestry, or California Dog F----ers to those who know them), has deep rooted problems that go back to before the 1970s . The whole thing needs to be dismantled and replaced. In fact the whole state system could use an overhaul to say the least.
The CDF should be experts working with out political interference, but we all know that is impossible.
It's impossible in California, - that's for sure (a totally corrupt mismanaged One Party Authoritarian Communist/ Marxist state).
The majority of these “felonies” are bullshit crimes and patently ridiculous: possessing marijuana with intent to sell, possessing cocaine, driving on a suspended license, etc. How pathetic can one state be?
There are probably also innocent people who are forced into plea bargans for a guilty plea to a lesser felony.
Aren't being in jail or prison. There main objective is rehabilitation those person.. he did what they wanted out him after he completed his sentence. Hire him.
Why is this not a violation of the 5th amendment which states : "No person shall ..... be deprived of life, liberty, or property,
without due process of law." Then there is the 8th amendment: "nor excessive
fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted." It would seem the state of Fornicalia considers itself a law unto itself. The denial is adding unlawfully to his sentence and is a form of taking for which he is not being compensated for as required in the 5th amendment.
What about the fact that this person bought into the rehabilitation process and has changed his life?
Pro Tip, IJ: When you fail to disclose what your client was convicted of, astute viewers assume that it’s something heinous.
In this case, the convictions appear to have been for possessing a concealed dagger and assault (source: www.firelawblog.com/2020/06/22/lawsuit-challenges-california-limits-on-two-time-felons-becoming-emts/).
Because you didn’t state what his convictions were for, my first assumption was that he was a child molester.
The second conviction was for an incident that occurred while he was under the influence of alcohol and drugs. While I can see arguments for not letting somebody with a history of substance abuse work in emergency services, this logic is undermined by California allowing him to perform this work in any capacity, so they clearly don’t consider his record a major safety risk.
Bottom line: give full disclosure, or else people assume that you have a good REASON to hide this stuff from your audience.
I am willing to bet and if that woman paid a p. I. To look into that judges everyday life I bet they could find ugly in that one as well. But then TRUTHFULLY? Now it's way too easy to fool many. All we have to do is look at our faith business
Tough on Crime is about catering to the segment of the population that doesn't believe in second chances, don't believe in personal change, that believes how you act as a younger person is how you'll act as an older person.
Sounds like a whole lot more people need to simply fight thier cases and not plead out. If the courts had to find a jury and schedule these trials in a reasonable time they would not be able too if 90% went to trial instead of 10%
Wow! So misbehavior has consequences. All other things being equal, and I have no felony convictions, why shouldn't I get the job ahead of a convict? There should be no reward for having a clean record? Since no information is given about the convictions, they might have been about drugs. If that's the case, that convict should be excluded from any sort of medical certification. Institute for Justice would be better-named Institute for Zero Consequences.
Don't say EMT's are ambulance drivers. EMT's in the USA cover eighty to ninety of all EMS calls in the USA by ourselves has first in. EMT'S have different certificates including paramedic. We provide the first level of critical care. Stop looking at us that way as a driver, do your research before stating such pathetic statement.
The final rule is,
There is an exception to every rule.
Godspeed
How can any felon become a productive part of society if you are still serving time years after being released? Part of rehabilitation is becoming a productive citizen.
When stupid persons who don't even know common sense became law makers....
With some exceptions I say, if you deem a convict worthy of rejoining society then stop crippling them. More evidence that some politicians are more interested in the wealth to be made from keeping the prison system full. Sounds like to me that he moved beyond his past. Let him stand up and move on.
What about EXPUNGEMENT? Does Cali not have a route for expungement?
A society that makes laws to criminalize human behavior but doesn't make any serious efforts to understand human behavior and the myriad societal failings that directly affect behavior is doomed - look around you - we are suffering an apocalyptic dearth of self-awareness. All of this rehabilitation/punishment rhetoric is infantile.
Maybe you don't want a convicted murderer coming into your home when he has been released, BUT, someone who maybe broke into a few cars 10 years ago ?
The law makes no sense.
Economics does not make a class structure the government does by baring people from economic activity or keeping what they earn.
stop giving out labels it’s BS
Exactly! It's another twisted religion in and of itself.
If it was a violent crime or a gun was used, no one in the Fire Department wants to have them around. It's a trust issue.
Do you still have a good moral character requirement for the pensilvania bar of they eliminate d all the moral requirements.
"Arbitrarily categorized as a felony"? Surely, that statement has only been uttered in California, by someone with less than a decade in their trade.
Felonies are not arbitrarily handed out, classified, or casually tossed on the back of a chair like your boyfriends skinny jeans, buddy. They are earned.
He's shown he can't or wont follow the law. Twice. Now you want this man to possibly have access to Narcan, or other types of first aid drugs? Hmmmm. A Fireman employed by the State of California.
Maybe he would be a model fireman, but since he's shown himself to be unable to follow the laws on more than one occasion, the taxpayers should not be dealt that risk. Statistically speaking, he will commit a, or several, crime(s) again. There are other applicants that likely have zero felonies on their record and those are the ones they should continue to hire.
Consequences. A Key and Peele skit, they aren't. Commit a crime, and doing jail time is only the beginning. This message is not new. Your rights to possess firearms and vote are gone. You are marked for life. Maybe he should spend some time spreading that message to prevent others from following suit?
You believe in him, or other reformed persons so much, you hire them. Don't tell the taxpaying public that they have to do it just because you're a bleeding heart. Given the opportunity, this person will likely show themselves to not follow the rules of society again. The odds are completely behind that assertion, no matter how upset it may make you. I hope I'm wrong, but the stats dont lie, and the taxpayers shouldn't be made to have any stake in that bet.
Who am i kidding? Its California. They will likely promote the fucker to Captain and give him his own show or something. If they haven't already.
Yet another reason to leave that state.
Go for a government job,(especially a politician) obviously you don't have to prove that you're a good person for those jobs.
People who have committed a crime can change for the good. The apostle Paul said to the people ( thieves drunkards revellers adultery is what some of you WHERE BUT YOU MADE YOURSELFS CLEAN WASHING THERE ROBES IN THE BLOOD OF CHRIST) So GOD'S word SAYS change is possible.
I seem to recall the guy they named their religion after hanging out with the so-called dregs of humanity, and only ever getting angry with the money-changers in the temple. Morality usurping reason has given the world nothing but problems for millennia. As if an omnipotent creator is going to give us a brain with such capacity for logic and reason but demand we not use it...smh
I hope these lawyers have kids so they can raise them without consequences . They then a battle for them like hell when they become felons. I raised my kids w definite consequences and they turned out great. This guy committed 2 felons that obviously were deals so we will never know what he really did. So now he can work fires and be paid. He wants some body o give him a permanent job we’re he can never be fired from. I don’t think they should take the risk when there are many outstanding kids that should be hired first.
he just wants to jump on the gravy train like the rest
Irrational? It’s California what do you expect? Is anything rational in California?
He's an orange jumper. Gotcha. Two felonies two parents one set of consequences. All evil is paved with good intentions.
Not true at all that you have to have EMT to be a perm wildland firefighter.
He wants to be a muni firefighter. This is about firefighter unions wanting to keep people out.
@@zeitgeistx5239 wildland and structure are two different beasts. One does not fully qualify for the other. That doesn't mean that I'm not here for a good redemption arc but their conflation of the two careers is disingenuous and misleading.
keep up the fight, hope i never need you~
Is this, perhaps, yet another doggone good reason to leave California for, shall we say, greener pastures elsewhere?
Let California burn up and fall off into the ocean so we don't have to keep putting up with their BS anymore.
So basically God for bid anybody should ever be anywhere around him I need to have their life saved by him because of the choices he made long ago he can’t save anybody’s life that’s a no no ?🤦🏻♀️
Easy fix dont commit crimes
He messed up don't do the crime if you can do the time no problems
I'm sorry I don't side with you on this one you said that his father is a sheriff well that tells me that he was afforded more than just equal protection he had his father to give him some insight as to what he was getting into
earlier on you guys said a lot of people are able to get their felonies plead down to misdemeanors, how do you know his felonies wasn't much higher and that they were not plead down to where they ended up being? Notwithstanding he has two felonies why couldn't he have learned his lesson when his dad told him not to do wrong, why couldn't he have learned his lesson when he got caught the first time , why couldn't he learned his lesson when he got convicted the first time, equal protection under the law essentially means everybody's treated the same so why should he be treated with extra favor because he wants to be a firefighter which doesn't have provisions the felony holders.
You have a right to earn some money obviously doesn't have to be firefighting nor does it have to be in California nevertheless stay out of trouble
disagree- i think it makes a lot of sense- do you want a criminal rescuing you
Yes yes I do ....if you want to choose who rescue you then next time your in a terrible traffic accident the first guy to show up may or may not be a ex.con make sure you ask before they do their job
Do they have jail house cooties?
California is ALREADY letting him do this sort of work, they just refuse to let him earn a living at it.
The state is right! A felon, (an ADULT, who was CONVICTED of a FELONY, in this case TWO) should not have the right, or privilege, to occupy a public service position which requires that employees be of a higher moral character. Perhaps listening to his father, who apparently was a sheriff, would have helped him preserve his right to apply for, and occupy, prestigious positions within the government! Despite your assertions that "other people have been plead down the misdemeanors" has NOTHING to do with these facts. That's a disingenuous representation of the facts to be kind. Anyone who takes a plea deal for a lower conviction has that right because they haven't burned that bridge by having MULTIPLE arrests and MULTIPLE convictions. It sounds to me like the law, despite being on the books in California, is actually RIGHT. Remorse about having given up his opportunities is not the state's fault, nor the fault of all of the aspiring heroes of the younger generation who are working hard to stay clean and fly straight!