Joel Richardson & Jose Diaz Speak Out: The IHOPKC Mike Bickle Scandal and the Maranatha Message.
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- Interview with Joel Richardson and Jose Diaz: Processing the IHOP and Mike Bickle Scandal.
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In this powerful interview, Joel Richardson and Jose Diaz, both deeply involved in the International House of Prayer (IHOP) and close friends of Mike Bickle, come together to process the recent scandal involving Bickle. As prominent figures in IHOP, Joel and Jose share their personal experiences, the trauma they faced, and their thoughts on the revelations of moral failures within the ministry.
Join us as they discuss the impact of these events on their faith, the community, and the future of IHOP. This candid conversation delves into the complexities of leadership, accountability, and the path to healing. Whether you’re a follower of IHOP, interested in church leadership, or navigating your own spiritual journey, this interview provides valuable insights and a call to deeper reflection.
Key Topics Covered:
• The IHOP scandal and Mike Bickle’s moral failures
• Personal reflections from Joel Richardson and Jose Diaz
• The impact on the IHOP community and global ministry
• Navigating trauma and healing in a faith context
• Accountability and leadership in the church
One thing I’ve noticed in the modern day church over the decades is the elevating preachers and teachers to a position that they should never be elevated to…
Isaiah 2:22 (NIV)
- "Stop trusting in mere humans, who have but a breath in their nostrils. Why hold them in esteem?"
Totally agree with that !It make it hard to find a church that isn’t doing it!
Same with putting their faith in politicians. Do not bow down to any politician. Only Jesus saves!
We put expectations of such perfections that no man is able to obtain. The pressures they go thru is simply too much.
Joel always has a way of grounding what feels like chaos, of bringing us back to our foundation, our hope in Christ and the Word. Thank you.
I hope you can hear my heart here. Joel, I really respect you & your walk with the Lord. As a woman who went through a divorce from someone who had so many secrets & betrayal I hope as you go through this hard journey you will see that many Christian women who’ve gone through divorce have stories like your experience with this situation. We believed, trusted, were gaslighted for years to the point we couldn’t see straight anymore. The celibacy thing……I experienced that it’s a form of sexual abuse. And it’s often connected to p*rn addiction. Imagine years of this kind of manipulation in close proximity. Thx. Praying for you both.
You have been there and you truly know. Have you ever wondered why observant Jews have a requirement that a man is required to give his wife sexual pleasure, and if he doesn't, he is answerable to the rabbis. Technically, these women have a support and ally in their religious community. I don't know if any of them take advantage of it, but the idea is there.
🙏🫂
And to Joel’s point about Mike never sharing his weaknesses-I had that same thought just before everything broke out.
Their celibacy vow was not even biblical. The Bible says that if you want to be a part as a couple for a little bit to pray it’s OK but you need to come back at least one of you be tempted. Good interview, Joel!
No one had discernment which is amazing considering the 'so-called prophets' that came through the doors of IHOP. The body of Christ is a mess. Sad witness to the world around us.
The charismatic church is a mess.
Thank you for sharing this. I have stepped away from the whole M.B. fiasco for the past year, so this is helpful. I stopped watching M.B./IHOPKC ministry and conferences over two years before everything blew up. I was tired of seeing M.B. interrupting people on the stage and continually putting himself front and center every service. His continually need to be in the spot light did not feel right. Brother Joel, I appreciate your End Times teaching and the Maranatha Cry. To me, these teachings are a big part of the Gospel, and the Gospel message is incomplete without the hope of redemption of Christ's return. My heart goes out to you both and your families. May God bring healing for these deep hurts.
Yes, Jose, the deconstruction is so difficult. My husband and I are still going through it. I know many others are walking the same journey; you are not alone. We do still know Jesus is returning and place our hope in that. When we were baptized in the Spirit and had zero interaction with IHOP, through scripture reading, the Lord began teaching us about His return and Israel. These revelations came to us completely independently of IHOP/Bickle. I am so very thankful for that.
This is why the Bible says we need to pray for discernment in the last days.
Whatever can be shaken will be shaken. When our foundations are rocked, we get our balance and grip again with God’s help and find the very firm foundation, Yeshua Ha Maschiach
We are to not to worship, or esteem as good, ANYTHING or ANYONE but THE LORD. (Mark 10:18) He is the only thing that cannot be shaken.
"Thou shalt have no other gods before thee." EXODUS 20:3 Mike's gods are his penis, his pride and his ego. Some folks made Mike himself their god. We all need to be guided by the original 10 Commandments and by Jesus' own words in MATTHEW 22:37-40 "...You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. The is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
Yeah, the lack of contriteness over years of worshipping bickle and the IHOPKC spiritually abusive culture is pretty conspicuous i this one.
“I will build my life upon Your Love. It is a firm foundation. 🪨 I will put my trust in You Alone and I will NOT be shaken.” 🎵 🎶
If IHOP was your foundation, you definitely had the WRONG foundation.
Church, as we have known it is dead. These leaders have had a long time to repent. Training wheels are off. If your trust is in anyone but Jesus...you're cooked. It's time now. Nothing beside Him.
Very true. Even these two have areas of compromise. We must be serious about the Lord and be very wary. Titles mean nothing. So much leaven in the church masquerading as flour.
As you are describing the stories, no one mentions criminal charges?!? He took advantage of a minor under his leadership! He had affairs etc., MB should have NOT have been allowed to preach, complete lack of discernment from IHOPKC! MB should be in jail! Call them out, protect the flock! Instead of focusing on redemption, where is justice for the victims? True leadership ensures justice first before you can start talking about redemption of MB.
@21:00 - this was the initial tell for me months ago in this tragic, horrible situation. "Lawyering up" is indeed the most un-David-like thing to do in the face of a scandal in which one has admitted to, even if in part. It was a massive tell.
As someone who has stewarded fiduciary responsibility leading a nonprofit as a board member and now a past president, I have been waiting to hear an intelligent, redemptive conversation from the governance angle. This issue is enormous right now.
I appreciate Jose (Philly misses you!) and what he carries. What a bombshell to find one is president of a board, not just a member - and a double-edged sword as well.
I hope other board members listen closely to your experience. The ministry board is really the only earthly counterbalance to a derailed or subversive founder/leader. Board members must stand firm, together in future situations as well.
Thank you both for being willing to share from the leadership/governance angle in a measured, redemptive manner.
If the doctrine is wrong, (and IHOP’s doctrine is bad), it leads to idolatry and sexual sin. We don’t elevate leaders or self. That is pride and detestable to God. Please repent and follow the Lord Jesus Christ! I do have mercy and grace for all those who are a part of this. I came out of NAR almost 20 years back. Thankful the Lord showed me my error and grounded me in His word. There will be others, beware!
Bickle needs to Go to Jail!!!'
And Repent.
Jose was chosen because he was amazed to be on the board of FOTB. Looked at Mike as a Father. He was 34.
He was made President of the board without being told.
He was joined by MB’s son and a staff member.
All 🚩
Thank you Joel and Jose ... words of Truth and encouragement.
Thank you for your wise conversation.
The Church needs humiliity and wisdom as a body, much more than shining leaders.
'“The heart is hopelessly dark and deceitful, a puzzle that no one can figure out. But I, God , search the heart and examine the mind. I get to the heart of the human. I get to the root of things. I treat them as they really are, not as they pretend to be.” * * * '
Jeremiah 17:9 MSG
Tons of respect for these two gentlemen and everybody who’s been brave enough to stand up against that manipulative monster. With as much humility as I can muster, knowing that in one way or another, there’s a good chance I could have a Blindspot just as bad where I could be sucked in, that level of ‘buy-in’ to a secondary doctrine (end time stuff in this case), is a ticking time bomb. I only had my two cents to add to the conversation where we all lovingly warn each other, not to attack. Praying for all the victims here including you two brave brothers of mine.
The return of Jesus is our hope
Such secrecy around the board! It seems like this secrecy may have been deliberate in not a good faith way. Large churches/ministries should have training for board members to help them understand their roles and responsibilities.
Hit the nail on the head. Same for FAI. I was excited about this channel, then i did the usual check...just check the Internet..and then ugly stuff about Dalton and cover up before the big reveal... BEFORE final scandal..... No different with Ravi etc... then boom the revelation about Dalton. Ie. Joel knew about it for a while...for years. Well Joel struggled with rhe challenges from Dalton but he did not make it open
A number of years ago, an associate pastor of our church in NM moved his family to IHOP. I thought it must be amazing to be someplace so spiritual. Now I think Thank You Lord, for preserving us. 🙏
It seems Mike has struggled with himself and sin ....and then gave up trying to overcome years ago. Everything escalated over the years, and maybe because of denial , he really got into some crazy fantasies. Fantasies about himself and scriptures...visitations and visions and dreams, women etc. Just because a person is charming and funny and intellectual doesn't make them wise or able to discern the things of the Lord rightly. He clearly struggled in most relationships. He was brilliant at hiding his heart . My uneducated guess is that he retreated into a fantasy world of his own creation and everyone saw what he used to wish he really was.
Questions are always good to ask… probably needed those questions before jumping into this “ ministry. We are to read and study Gods word .
This was a much needed debrief. I was a little angry with you Joel regarding social media output early on when so many of us were trying to figure out the truth. I'm was intimately experienced with the tentacles of a real narcissist. When the awakening comes, you do question everything. Brokenhearted that love was never real. The manipulation and gaslighting by a bonafide, axis. II, Cluster B personality order malignant narcissist is probably the worst mindfu*k ever. So many who have left IHOP I pray get mental health care. Yes, we need the maranatha message! I recommend "People Of The Lie" by Dr. M. Scott Peck. Sometimes I still cry what happened here.
Mike’s estimated net worth is between $3-8 million. A closeted prosperity pastor.
Yet another reason to focus only on Jesus Christ. This man centered celebrity worship has gotten out of hand in many Christian circles. As an outsider listening to this, it seemed like you elevated a man to heights that were out of control. None of us know what men (women) do behind closed doors. To respect someone you work for or worship with is fine, but to elevate them to unwarranted levels is flat out wrong and borders on idolatry.
20 years ago I pleaded for people I knew to get out of Bickle's organization. They thought that the "contemplative meditation" was the "in" thing to do, as taught by MB. The fruit of that practice is the creating of "our very own personal Jesus." That is deception, and is a sign of the age we are in. I am sorry, Joel, for the problems within your own organization, you are typical of when Calvinism is allowed in to pervert the scripture. Calvinism is Gnosticism re-packaged. A great resource: The Foundation of Augustinian Calvinism, by Ken Wilson, D. Phil Also, What Love is This? Calvinism's Misrepresentation of God, by Dave Hunt. Both authors are solid Bible, if you think they are in error, do the research yourself.
first time making a comment here but excellent conversation thank you both so so much ...Jesus is Lord of all
great respect for everything you both spoke about
Really appreciate you unpacking this with a sound mind.
I can certainly appreciate how hard The deception of Mike Bickel impacted both of you. I had a pastor who was also my father-in-law that did the same thing. It rocked me for a long time.
One question, if you're able to answer. How did you come into the information before anyone else?
Listening to Jose’s testimony and others it’s starting to sound more and more a mafia. Putting the naive into a legal liability position is a classic mob boss move so the charges don’t stick the boss.
Is there any man we can trust? My heart has been devastated by so many "men of God" failing. And the husband's of many of my friends also have sexual sins. We are all hurt by these betrayals of trust. I hunger and thirst for righteousness.
Jesus
No. Recently Holy Spirit has been teaching me about love, respect, and trust. Love and respect to all. But not trust.
If we expect ANY man to be 100% perfect we will be let down at some point.
The ONLY one who can meet that expectation is Christ Himself.
@@JoelRichardson Best one-word answer I've heard in a while. SMH
Two things apply:
1) This is the exact kind of religious pride that goes before a fall...and,
2) What an opportunity women have to teach their equally imperfect husband, freinds and family HOW TO BE THE BRIDE OF CHRIST, by conforming to their husband as unto the LORD, as the Bible commands! How else is a man supposed to learn the role of a Bride?
Of course, that is why there is such an attack on the family and ON BIBLICAL MARRIAGE!
1Cor11 should keep prideful women too busy to slander men on account of two failures that occurred decades ago. Ya reckon?
There is just as much irresponsibility on the part of every single person who heard Mike Bickle say that he and his wife are celibate, and never called them to account.
It is more sickening that Mike B taught millions a horrendous marriage example, than committing a moral failure that no one could ever confuse with a good example...
🕎 Rev 14:12 Saints! ✝️
I completely understand what you mean by trust becoming an issue .....we are taught to love, to be in community, family, friendship etc...and the men who lead a family or church are people we should be able to trust. My heart goes out to you ❤❤❤
Amen the return of Jesus is about biblical hope! We have such a glorious hope to look forward to! The eternal restored davidic kingdom and Jesus ruling the world from Jerusalem
Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”
. Jesus never came to establish an earthly davidic kingdom. The dispensational playbook is a deceiving
infiltration into the minds of naive Christian’s
. Please study to show yourself approved.
Thank you both! Jesus does care and wants to bring true Justice and restoration and this starts with exactly what you are doing! I was there on full time staff for 11 years and I feel this all very deeply and this is very encouraging and I am healing and detoxing from wrong theology and the abuse I suffered there.
I hope you dumped
that “therapist”.
Any statement that contradicts scripture is not of the Holy Spirit. Jesus is coming again and we won’t be quiet.
Maranatha!
I am a Christian woman, age 77, who has not only lived a long time, but I've seen and done a lot in my almost eight decades. Original sin (the kind we are born with), is only the basis, the launching pad, for continuous, repeated sin, and is inherent in all Christians. Our Catholic Church brothers and sisters practice CONFESSION regularly, even regarding it as a holy sacrament. Truly devout Catholics believe their life as a Christian is on hold, interrupted, with blessings being withheld, in the face of unconfessed sin--they can't partake of the other sacraments or even face death without it formal confession. We should pay attention to David, a man after God's heart, but that heart made him susceptible to continued, repeated sin, so much that he declared that "my sin is ever before me..." (Psalm 51:3). Repentance for each sin is LIFELONG--it never goes away, and is part of being forgiven. We need regular, daily confession AND lifelong repentance as an integral part of our salvation.
I do not hold to the Catholic doctrine however, daily examining myself and confession to the Lord, I believe, is instrumental to our relationship & walk with our Lord.
@sagrammyfour make sure you confess to the right "person"... I am sure you know the gospel..."Don't call anyone on earth your Father..."
Yes Joel, put your foot to the heavy metal. Jesus is coming back to earth one day. Maranatha
I can say that Joel’s preaching on the end-times gives many of us HOPE. The good news that Jesus Christ will one day come and establish His government on this Earth… and put an end to this nightmare we’re in gives COMFORT.
He creates a new heaven and new earth , this world will be destroyed by fire
@@Whatever45302 Yes after the Millennial Kingdom.
So glad for your wife ! She was so right what she said ! How disgusting to be in pray and then it cause him to kiss a young single women who isn’t his wife. What kind of pray was it couldn’t have been a Holy one!🤨 I just don’t get that his wife is all ok with this ! And what’s the point of having celibacy in a marriage? Wouldn’t that just lead to more temptation? So he won’t touch his wife but he will just do it with young woman !!what a slap in the face to his wife! !
Thank you...and it is exactly that...I found FAI and want to listen to the Revelation series,but cannot listen to Dalton ...breaks my heart. Please please don't stop teaching us as it is not his message, but the message of the Father - please please consider a study on Rev for us here in Africa via youtube!!
Very few people walking in transparency like this. Thank you
AMEN, Amen, amen! Enough of this misguided “CELEBRITY” Christianity! MARANATHA, MARANATHA, MARANATHA!!!
I too sobbed in unbelief and anguish for 4 days. By the grace of God I am through the shock and pain.
I am so sorry you were made President of FOTB. It surely was postering for what I believe the Holy Spirit told him he would be exposed. I grieve over this continued exposure of Mike’s betrayal of thousands.
Thanks Joel!
This video brought healing to my soul and strengthened my faith. Keep on sharing the truth
The Charismatic movement after 50 years of nonsense is reaping what was sown. The elevation of man is always bad.
Amen to the defenders of the oppressed ,you said it perfectly as JESUS SO TAUGHT. THE ONLY PEOPLE HE EVER WAS HARSH WITH WERE THOSE WHO WERE OPPEESSING THE TRUE WEAK, NEGLECTED ABUSED SICK PEOPLE ,THE HUMBLE HONEST TRUE BELIEVERS THE POWER PEOPLE JESUS SPOKE HARSHLY TOO, FLIPPED TABLES. AND CALLED THEM WHITE WASHED TOMBS, GOD KNOWS MENS HEARTS, AS WELL EXPOSES THEE ABUSER IN HIS TIME ,, IN LOVE ,IN TRUTH, AS THE TRUTH SETS THE CAPTIVES FREE, GOD GIVES YEARS FOR MEN TO REPENT AS WELL ,BEFORE PUBLIC EXPOSURE.
I feel thankful for Jose sharing his reaction to the news and then his questioning, can so resonate, thanks for sharing. 💛🙏
How could this have gone on for so long and kept secret by all involved? I believe there is a much larger problem at IHOP than we've been told.
People outside of IHOP called out Bickle’s fantasies, lies and deceptions for years. No one in IHOP wanted to listen. It was obvious Bickle was full of it.
I wasn't too familiar with Mike Bickle; however, I feel your pain. I recognize this heart-wrenching emotional roller coaster from Ravi Zacharias'' fall from grace. Somewhere I heard a prophesy (from a credible source) that God will begin to ruthlessly implement 1 Peter 4:17 - For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God.....(and, we now see it). Time to route out the rotting from within.
I want to challenge those of you in ministry to repent and overcome tendencies toward gullibility, and commit to fighting for transparency in the church.
I go to a small bible based baptist church i would never go to a mega church. They believe in things like the rapture and things that i do not believe in but you will never find the perfect church and that’s ok because i don’t worship a pastor or teacher because they are just men. I let the Holy Ghost guide me it’s still good to hang with like minded people who believe in the Lord and that’s all that matters.
BTW, in light of details of his weird celibate "marriage," his wife is an enabler. As a woman, I know that SHE KNEW all along that something was seriously amiss with her husband. She tolerated and endorsed his appalling behavior. His sin has even manifest itself, down to the next generation, as I believe one of his sons has followed in his father's footsteps.
Wait, did M say their entire marriage was celibate? Or just for periods of time??
After decades, I had my fill of Christian television and in 2016, stopped watching television, listening to radio, eventually gave up my Christian podcast and became the “unchurched” upon realizing that the Church normalized abuse. Don’t expect predators to walk humbly before the Highest that they don’t honestly believe exist.
What do you mean, “you can understand how fervent prayer can morph into kissing your prayer partner!!! What spirit is that Jose?? Mike Bickle was named a heretic by our pastor many years ago. Follow Jesus, not a man 🙋🏼♀️
You misunderstood what he said. He said he understood what I meant by Mike sending his tentacles out and how deceptive and disorienting it is for a second.
Never ever ever esteem a man just because he has the gift of imparting the Word. They can spot your admiration/loyalty 10 miles away and will begin the grooming process for future exploitation. Jose's story is so typical of these wolves' modus operandi. Beware. We are to serve and exalt only The One who created us.
Thank you Both for this courageous and honest report. May Grace and Peace be your’s.!
I think this says a lot about the church today. There is no discernment anymore. And I mean no disrespect, it could literally happen to anyone at anytime. The devil comes as an angel of light. That’s why it is so very devastating and confusing after the egregious behaviors are exposed. Judgement has begun in the house of God.
The statement at the 40 minute mark that Mike Bickle said that he and his wife were celibate wityin their marriage is shocking. I Cor. 7:5 says do not deprive each other. The fact that Mike was engaging in some physical activity with women other than his wife shows the craziness of this statement.
Did M say their /entire/ marriage was celibate? Or just for periods of time??
@@cre8509 They have two sons so it was not forever.
Thank you both for sharing on a painful topic. It made me realize how deeply this kind of betrayal can go and how ugly it is. Thank you so much for sharing ❤
If you pay attention to the patterns of these narcissistic leaders, there’s no doubt in my mind those are the people Jesus was talking about when He said in Matthew 11:12 “From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and the violent take it by force”.
He obviously wasn’t talking about the invisible kingdom of God because no man can take that by force. He’s speaking about the physical representation of the kingdom of God which is the church. When he said violent men take it by force. He meant they are violent to the soul. They are emotionally and spiritually abusive. They leave the sheep traumatized.
"But Yeshua did not entrust himself to them, because he knew all men,"...
If Yeshua didn't trust man, KNEW their hearts...why do you suppose we should trust ANYONE?
Thank you guys for doing this, it is a major service to the body. This is aiding in continuing to chip away for me, and I'm sure for others, where we held Mike in our minds and hearts. In watching this and others' comments on the situations, it seems Mike was (hate to say it) flowing in a gnostic bent, described in Colossians 2:18-23, "Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God. Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles ('elemental spirits' in ESV) of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations - 'Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,' which all concern things which perish with the using - according to the commandments and doctrines of men? These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect (severe treatment, ascetism) of the body, but are of NO VALUE AGAINST THE INDULDENCE OF THE FLESH." It's just a description of his ascetic lifestyle, as well as overemphasis on the prophetic, but yet it did not stop him from indulging his flesh/sinful nature. A definite need to check my own heart and mind and a call to fear God. Bless you both.
Everyone has a Christ shaped hole, and are doomed to fill it with worship of something. Weather its worship of themselves like Mike Bickle, or worship/supporting/enabling of a false prophet like Joel and Jose admit to but arent particularly repentent of, or obsession over snippets of the bible they choose to irratonally elevate above all the rest and worship in place of Christ himself. Are we really called to worship the future coming of Christ more than to love and esteem our living and loving Lord and Savior himself in the here and now? And the hope He has already given in his sacrifice to right our relationship with Him?
SOOOOO GOOD....MARANATHA...COME LORD JESUS!!!!! Great way to wrap it up....very well done...blessings
Here is the conclusion of the whole matter: Never put a man on a pedestal because he ultimately falls off!
Honestly, approximately 3-4 years ago I messaged Stephanie and a few other people in FAI to share my concerns about MB😔
Bless God for you men
My thought and struggles hit the same level as Jose….I questioned every taught messages on end times by any of the teachers I have known …clinging to my God but questioning all manipulation of scriptures even to the origins of the scriptures today!!!! Hard time but we need to question anything man says !!!
Breaking Bad had complex characters too. Spouse started a false front business to clean the money. Have we checked those books yet
I’m new to Joel Richardson’s books and as a speaker. I’m a little concerned now to know that he ever ascribed to Bickel’s ministry. I never trusted that guy and anytime I went to IHOPKC I felt super uneasy.
Can you share what you saw in Bickel?
when talking to someone on staff or a student, I used to say, "I'm just in the marketplace." I wasn't as good as them, I had chosen the wrong path. But now, I can't even imagine if I had been closer, if I had been more defined by my place in ihop. it has been so hard for me - even at a distance. praying for those closer to the mess.
The apostle Paul was in the “marketplace,” too. 😉💛
Joel, our ladies Bible study has been using a lot of your material in our study on Revelation.
I disagree with that therapist.
I’m 75
Got radically born again 1971.
Went through charismania and churchianity. Left the building in 2010 looking to find the real Assembly.
All the fake stuff is going to hit the fan.
I’m with you.
I’m forging on.
BTW, I’m a Joplin native.
Yeshua is real. Father expose the snakes.
I have a similar testimony. 1975. Radically delivered and born again.
After baptism in Holy Spirit became part of charismania and churchianity. Thought I'd always remain there.
2006-2007 Jesus opened my eyes to Truth.
Holy Spirit led me to leave the building in Dec 2007 and to follow my First Love.
Must say, that almost 17 years later .... it is extremely challenging to find the true Assembly of believers.
@@rebecca42734
Start wearing the wedding ring SIGN between YHVH and us that He said is "above all" in Exodus31:13(esv), and teaching against Mt7:23 lawlessness (anomia/rejection of Torah) and you will be set-apart in a small devotedly faithful family that is in total unity with eachother and other Rev14:12 Saints all over the world.
🕎❤️✝️
@@rebecca42734 so true. Hard to find, but is possible by being led by Spirit. I’ve been in home-group for 8 years and love it. I’ve tried so many times to go back to the building but just cannot do it. The only thing I really miss about the building is corporate worship. I was a worship leader and it means a lot to be in worship. We live in a small town in NE Alabama and it’s my desire to see a monthly, city-wide worship evening on a Friday night. Yah has yet to open the door for that but I am waiting. I’m dogmatic about being part of biblical sound doctrine and I find a lot of believers don’t want to give up their man-made traditions. So they don’t want to fellowship with me and I cannot compromise on certain things.
I am stunned that people trusted ihop so many false prophecies and word salad vague prophecy turned me off years ago
All of what you are discussing is describing typical NAR strategy. The new apostles and prophets have no peers but themselves. They possess special, extra biblical insight. They are therefore accoutable to no one, least of all the rank and file saint. The great failing here is not Mike but the deeply flawed ecclesiology that produced him. Joel is a voice in a wilderness of corporate delusion and self deception. All the other big NAR players were, and are, desperately circling the wagons to preserve the system.
Let me ask you all out there. Are you surprised?
No. I've seen this go on for decades.
@@laurenfromdownsouth yup
After the expulsion from my church for calling out the pastor for his sin, nothing surprises me.
Not in the least bit! I knew IHOPKC was a cult. Did much research on them. It was only a matter of time for this house of cards to fall. Doctrine matters and their doctrine was off...big time!
Jose how and when did you leave the board and did you have to hire a lawyer?
This is just another spit in the eye to Jesus. I saw almost the very same thing happen a few years ago at what USED to be the largest festival in America and THE largest Christian festival in America. 😢😢
Very encouraging conversation, Joel and Jose. thank you and Maranantha!
It’s SUPER unfortunate that these things turned out to be true about Mike Bickle. He was such a good teacher.
To me, Mike’s quality of teaching is up there with Joel, Dalton & Gabe from FAI.
He had such a good message about the Church’s role in the end times. It’s just very unfortunate.
A very necessary conversation, examining what I call "the Bickle issue" which has occurred down thru the centuries. This is warfare. A very insightful passage for me has been Daniel 7:25 where the word "shall persecute the saints" would best be understood as "wear out or wear down". A huge and major tactic. Also thank your for how you ended up the conversation - the wrap was spot on regarding "the blessed hope - the glorious appearing of our Great God and Savior". Guys - keep preaching it! You both (and your teams...) are in my prayers. Greg
It must be the hardest thing to open up and let the world know what happened. Even as many may be shocked, we need to understand that any leaders of any ministry is prone to falling as much as the regular guys at the bottom. No one is immune. No ministry is immune. The spiritual forces of evil and the nature of sin is very real and anyone who thinks he stands need to take heed lest he fall. Praying for our leaders is crucial and having a forgiving and compassionate heart though the impact can be strong. Families and marriages is under heavy attack from all angles. We do not war against the flesh but against spiritual wickedness in every sphere around us. We all need to continue in faith and holiness, watch always and pray in Jesus name, Amen.
It's good that Jose and IHOPKC is leaving Mikeyanity, and returning to Christianity. Did God lead the people out of Egypt or was it Moses? I know Who takes full credit for that. IHOPKC wasn't raised up by Mike Bickle but by God. I just read today in Acts 14 how Paul and Barnabas were horrified to learn they were lifted up like Zeus and Hermes when they knew God despises Idols.
Jose, that IS witchcraft; that is what witchcraft spirit does. Casting spells, using spiritual power to manipulate/control IS witchcraft.
I doubted Bob Jones’ prophesies.
You should!!!
Bob Jones was a fraud!
Thank you both for this important conversation. Truly needed.
I just wanted to say that what you mentioned about Bickle resembles the ways in which a cult leader influences his/her followers.
The triggers, doubts, and not wanting to even look at a Bible (or eschatology) during the healing period, are part of needing to unlearn and detoxify, so to speak.
I used to belong to a dangerous religious cult for half of my life (I'm now 65)-- a "Christian" cult at that!. I was literally raised in it since I was 16 yrs old. All of what you talk about resemble a cult leader using his personality, the Scriptures, etc, living in utter deception. Bickle lived/s in deception, which is why he is not able to see the enormous damage he has caused and publicity repent. I wouldn't be surprised if he still believes God is on his side. My 33-plus years of personal experience with cultish practices, beliefs, etc has helped me to see Bickle for who he is-- a cult leader who has horribly used others possibly even thinking he was living within God's will.
Hubby and I loved Bickle and listened to hours and hours (100s of hours) of his teachings, so we were shattered to hear of his sinful lifestyle. Thankfully, because we live in a totally different continent, we were not as influenced and affected as those in IHOPKC. I can just imagine what you both gone through 😢 ❤
Man I relate a lot to what Jose was describing around the 40-50 min mark. After spending 5 years on staff but remaining connected to the ministry since 2010 I was thrown in to a bunch of confusion regarding what I believed regarding all those same things. So many of my core theological convictions I’ve put on the “chopping block” and have been evaluating them. Especially the structure of the parachurch house of prayer.
The Maranatha message of hope in the age to come has kept me grounded during this time.
I am sorry, but "there was no sign" is not what the many leadership videos say. From Alan Hood and down, many have tried repeatedly and for a while to confront Mike and he chose to be the classical cheater, only admitting to what he was caught with. It doesn't change what God did through fallen humans. He can use David, he can use anyone. Now if someone misuses prophecy like Mike did ("the Lord revealed to me my wife will die and you are to be my next wife"), I think He will have His judgment on that, and we should, too. Judgment starts in the house of YHWH. Moving on from another broken ship. I feel horrible for all the "interns" who worked without pay and are now left with a mess. May God repay you according to what you meant to do to further the Kingdom. It always looked like misuse of labor to me.
grace-filled, hopeful response, anchored in the Maranatha cry!
I always appreciated and respected Mike Bickle but like every leader, I was never following him… I’m following Jesus. I pray mercy over Mike and that the Lord would grant him repentance. And I pray that we would return to following Jesus alone and not celebrity leaders. We do need each other, but my faith and spiritual wellbeing come from Christ and not good or bad leaders in the church. Christ alone is the Head!
Thank you for doing this interview. May we continue to anchor our roots deep in Christ and Christ alone. Come Lord Jesus!
Please talk more about the last point Jose brought up. . .the scary route of deconstruction. So many of us in full time ministry in the “prayer movement” can relate. We need more conversations about that.
Declaring the whole counsel of God breeds more hope and support for facing life’s day to day challenges while preparing us for our glorious reunion.
I have followed Joel for years and I so appreciate the wisdom of you both. Thank you for this podcast
Had Joel ever addressed Daltons behaviour? If anyone knows that, can you write it down? Cuz that s something that my heart needs
I just asked the same question. To my knowledge, he has not since maybe December 2023?
@@JovannaandFriends interesting…. It does not sit well with me that he hasn’t. I don’t know where the accountability is for Daltons behaviour. He is off on some boat having a blast after the upheaval he left behind.
He stated that a review of the situation is coming to a close. There may be something coming in August 2024.
@@gregmorgan3508 thank you so much for this.
Joel is (patiently) waiting for the investigation to end and to read the report. There may be hidden things that he is still now aware of yet. He will address it again at that time.
Thank you both for this
Its a familyy thing...
In one video from the advocate group, members Dean Briggs and John Chisholm explained that they resigned from IHOPKC leadership in September over another incident: the ministry’s mishandling of an alleged affair between Mike Bickle’s son and the wife of a IHOPKC staffer.
The sins of the father...
I love the way you said that about the hope of the Maranatha message. It struck me as strange that Mike sounded really cavalier and almost excited when he would talk about such scary and painful things as multitudes of people dying in judgments.
Great point.
What I never did understand is that Tammy never admits to actually having intercourse, not that making out with a minor is nothing to ignore but may there be complete healing for everyone involved and hurt by all of this news
Why in the world would that counselor say to stop teaching about the end times?? Jesus coming back means the restoration of all things and all of us poor, abused, marginalized people really have our hearts set on Him fulfilling all His promises. I could not stand to live on this planet one more day if I didn't know He was coming back. He is the last bit of hope I have.
I understand her point. Not everyone views the subject of the end times the same. She offered much appreciated advice otherwise.