My Patreon: www.patreon.com/cuivlazygeek My Merch Store: cuiv.myspreadshop.com/ Link to the camera: tinyurl.com/yjwd836e RedCat51: bit.ly/48hyuVx (Agena) or bit.ly/48pTWXW (HPS) Cable Organizers/Focuser bracket: www.etsy.com/shop/SmartComponents Amazon affiliate: amzn.to/49XTx01 Agena affiliate: bit.ly/3Om0hNG High Point Scientific affiliate: bit.ly/3lReu8R First Light Optics affiliate: tinyurl.com/yxd2jkr2 All-Star Telescope affiliate: bit.ly/3SCgVbV Astroshop eu Affiliate: tinyurl.com/2vafkax8
Hi Cuiv, I have had this camera (for about 6 months now) and am BLOWN AWAY with its performance. I have matched it up with the Orion EON 130mm refractor, the Orion ED80T refractor, and the Celestron 11" EdgeHD at f/10 and was amazed at the results. I recently matched it with the Starizon Hyperstar for the EdgeHD (f/1.8) and again, was blown away with the results. Sure, there is some vignetting but taking flats and using those gradient removal tools eliminated most of it. I am betting that once you test it when your weather clears, you WILL NOT want to send it back. Clear skies - Patrick -
Recently made the switch to a nina mini pc from ASIAIR. Loving all the extra camera options and gear after the switch. Enjoy the non zwo reviews. Keep it up!
haha Cuiv I did see your little edit at top right of picture! hilarious! 😂 ( 1:09 ) Joking aside, this camera is incredible for the money Cuiv. That sensor really is enormous compared to even the APSC size! The price is awesome too! Admittedly though, I won't be able to afford one for a while after just buying a 8" RC 'scope! Thanks as always for the great content Cuiv, love the channel! Wes, Liverpool, England.
Thanks so much Wes, and you're the second one to notice that little edit and comment on it 🤣 I do love it when these little things are caught :) Enjoy you RC8 for now, you don't need new cameras....... Yet 😂
Cuiv, my wife and I are extremely new to astrophotography. We absolutely love your videos, but we may have to slow down watching your videos because you make us want to spend so much money on all these cool toys. JK, mostly. Your enthusiasm for it and the way you just seem to get joy from all of this just makes watching your channel a complete joy and makes me want to just dive head first into the hobby with reckless abandon, even when I sometimes don't fully understand everything you're saying. I do wish I knew of some better resources to help me learn what all the technical terms you're using are, or in a lot of cases, when you're talking about specs, what good specs look like and their significance.
Thanks so much for the feedback! This hobby combines so many things I love, from cool tech to challenge to maths and physics to feelings of accomplishment :-) but yes, do NOT overspend on it and be happy with what you have ;) As for the terms, I have older videos that go through that, for instance this one: ruclips.net/video/GKXkM_FbFgg/видео.htmlsi=Dc1tI3PtJvf0pR3F , and I have a full series on "Noise in Astrophotography" that's several years old now, but that should help!
Nice camera, With Sharpcap the camera manufacturer has to supply the driver SDK to the devoper, once he has it it should be included in the next program update
Regarding the backlight LEDs: ToupTek added an option to disable backlights in their current stable ASCOM driver. However, this only works with newer cameras, even if the option is visible for older models, too. I guess it should work with this brand new camera though.
Need this is my life when/if it becomes available in mono. Pixel size is big for my scopes, but give/take. Looks like a great option either way. Nice intro review.
If this is a newer model it will support turning the LEDs off via the SDK. Maybe you can check in N.I.N.A. if the toggle does anything for it. Better to have them off as tape can still bleed some light :)
Hi Cuiv, I use the Omegon veTEC 571c (basically a Touptec Camera) and I do have an option in SharpCap to switch between HCG and LCG. The Omegon even uses the Touptec driver. Sharpcap Version (4.1.12338.0).
Yep, Omegon, Risingcam, even Altair are rebranded or based on Touptek cameras :) Weird that you get that option in Sharpcap, I was pretty sure I had the latest version, I will check!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek As far as I now, they upadetd the Touptek driver framework in the latest SharpCap Version but maybe the camera ist still to new. Hopefully you get some clear skys soon. :)
For non-Astro photography I went from a APS-c sensor to a full frame and was totally blown away with the extra detail and crop ability that it gave. Signal to noise and observable dynamic range were in a completely different class. I expect in Astro use it will be the same. I’m 100% brought into the ZWO ecosystem so unless I want to spend even more money, I’d have to go for the ZWO offering
Same experience for me, although I only used a full frame DSLR to compare. Somehow the full frame sensor is not only the size, but captures more detail and a level of smoothness to it and as you said, it's a class on its own. Even with a DSLR!
I have this camera since 6 mounth and I must admit that is very important to switch from M48 to M54 to avoid vigneting, otherwise even with flats you will need to crop the image which is a shame. Regarding your graph and your axplanations, I should test acquisitions with gain at 500 in Nina as I use 3200 iso on my Nikon Z6 which has the same sensor that satisfy me perfectly.
I think I may have said this before Cuiv but I would prefer the power supply was optional. I use Eagle and Stellarmate Pro mini pcs which can easily handle the power requirements for most cooled cameras. I have a red cat set up similar to yours so will be very interested to see your results with this full frame camera. I have never used a full frame camera myself, they're a bit out of my price range but nice to see them coming down a bit in price.
@@GrundleStiltSkin first I already have a box full of them. Second, speaking as a retired electronics technician the only way to reliably verify the voltage conditions during use is to test them with appropriate test gear. Third, I never said you shouldn't have the option of having one supplied if you want one, just that you should be given the choice. I don't know what country you live in but In the UK I don't find them particularly cheap (due to the 20% VAT we have to pay).
Nice video - I’ve been considering the ASI 2400mc pro for some time to pair with my C9.25 but at $3k it’s a bit rich for me and they almost never come up for sale used. This could be the game changer for me! So, one question - does the AR glass reject/filter out IR? Is that why there is the choice of IR cut? I’d like to choose for myself to block IR or not…
I have essentially the Orion Branded version of this Imager, It along with a 90 MM Orion Caron Fiber Fiber APO, AM5 mount are headed to StarFront Observatories in Texas late next Week for a remote imaging setup . Hope to Present as the Opening Video for my new Channel coming in September. Cuiv Your Awesome, hope to compare results !
Wow $600 cheaper than the ZWO camera I know which one I would buy, it looks great Cuiv look forward to seeing the insane widefield images you're going to get with that.
I'm not sure why you don't compare to the 6200 more directly if you're comparing price points, but its pretty clear how Touptek is hitting a lower price with a lower spec sensor. In my mind they're both valid - Touptek offers a good camera for the right optics at a good price if you want that field of view, while with ZWO's offering, you are clearly getting a more capable sensor for your extra money, and either may be the right choice depending on what you are after.
Thanks for all you video! I'm thinking about the MX410..but I'm confusing by the IMX455 still full frame. I know all their differnences (n. pixel, pixel dimension, bit resolution), I kow that bigger pixel of the 410 captures more signal with respect smaller one, as you explain. But why to not consider binning capabilities of that camera? the 3,76 can become about 7,5 micron pixel...that I think it is better than 5,94 micron pixel and it can be good for above 1000 mm focal length telescopes. Read Noise of the 455 seems lower than the 410...You have explained about 14 vs 16 bit...But summarizing, what would be your choice between the IMX410 and the IMX455? Thanks!!
Excellent overview Cuiv. I wish there was a mono version of the IMX410 but there's no sign of it happening in the near future, if ever. I'm in the market for the full frame camera for my RC and will probably have to go down the ASI6200mm route. Anyway, looking forward to seeing your test images when you manage to get some clear skies.
Thanks Pete! And you're right, it looks like at this stage the 6200MM (and variants from Player One and I assume others) is the only monochrome full frame camera that fits the bill at this stage...
@Astronurd this may be a suprise, but people like expensive stuff to be a certain color, ie: cars, homes, boats etc..astro cams should fit somewhere in there. Personally I wish there was more blue! Marketing 101 stipulates product divergence can be achieved with simple color changes.
Big pixel size is the best thing because of the larger field of view (imagine the field offered by this camera at f/2.2 on RASA 11, it would be 3.3 x 2.2 degrees, and the resolution will be 1.98"/pixel), which is really big.
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Absolutely. Definitely the most important thing for those (especially) who do photometry, because they really need the biggest SNR and dynamic range possible, so in this case the dropped resolution is not an issue. Yesterday, I was also looking at various websites that were referring to bining for astroimaging, and indeed, it seems that by bining they are able to capture very dim details, plus that the binned images were a bit sharper. Have you ever try it so far? I think this Touptek beast can bin even 4x4 (ok, it is a cmos, so it can be done from the software, I guess..). What are your thoughts?
Touptek is making gains on ZWO recently and I like it as the prices are going down. Like Cuiv I have IMX571 and IMX533 based OSC cams from Touptek and boy they perform! Now let's wait for Touptek's Air equivalent which looks like it won't be supporting Touptek cams only. Interesting times!
Yes, Touptek has brought a lot of competition to the hobby, and ZWO has been able to keep its own pricing thanks to the ASIAir ecosystem - I'm really hoping the Touptek AstroStation can change the game!
Touptek actually has been in the camera sensor business far longer than ZWO. They also have been selling professional equipment long before ZWO existed. Microscopes and security cameras etc, but they are a bigger company than ZWO and produce more units and buy more materials, so they can afford to sell their gear cheaper than ZWO.
Wow. Can the TOUPTEK 42 CAMERAS be used with ZWO ASI Air ??? I so badly want a colour camera, but their prices are through the roof. And when you said the is the cheaper full Frame camera, that was like nuke explosion in my brain. So looks like full frame colour will never be in my possession
I am screwed. 1. I use the ZWO playground [ASI AirPlus], and 2. I would be forced to get a new rig since my setup 's light cone will vignette severely. Thanks though! I love competition, for sure!
Hi Cuiv! Great video! Why do you review this camera? I am thinking about afording it for several weeks already. You are somewhat forcing me to click that button. 😂 The pixel size would be perfect for my RC8 that oversamples with my IMX571 cameras.
I have a question, I have a 8" dobsonian with a 1200 mm focal lenght, what camera would you recommend with my telescope. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
Even with the vignetting, you crop those off, along with the elongated stars, your image is still far bigger than an APS-C sensor! I know, because I had a Nikon full frame DSLR and even though the camera was old, the picture it made was something far better than any aps-c or smaller sensor. It's somehow not only about the size of the sensor, but the surface area of it, just by having that big, it just captures more, the light has more area to "soak in" for the lack of a better word. It's hard to describe, since I'm not a total optics-geek, but the picture will say a 1000 words! On the other hand, the 2600 APS-C sensor is getting old, the price need to come down, it's crazy it's still sold for the same as it was introduced like 4 years ago? We need the sensors cheaper, the pandemic over, there is no justification for ZWO and the rest to sell those cameras for $2K in 2024!
Is fascinating. I would of course be interested in the zwo system if it was cheaper than the main alternatives. But paying more to be locked into only their ecosystem just surely seems bananas to me
It's the most popular professional sensor size used in photography. It's larger than apsc budget camera sensors and provide better image quality than sensors smaller than itself like apsc, MFT, mobile phone etc.
Hi, Cuiv, please let us know your opinion on the fact that 5,98 pixel size should be divided into 4 to get the real effective pixel size (RGGB), that is about 1,5, thus it is not effective as e.g. 3,76 mono IMX571. Is that true? I used ZWO 2600 MC Duo - I was absolutely disappointed and sold it - returned back to a wonderful QHY 268M.
The pixel size if for each pixel - so each pixel is 6um size, and has a color filter on top. The 2600MC (Duo or not) is the same. Each pixel is 3.76um, with a single color filter on top. If you were disappointed by the MC Duo, it's simply that you prefer mono to OSC :)
I can’t understand why there isn’t a mono version of the IMX410. Particularly as the vast majority of people live under less than ideal conditions and are trying to get the right pixel scale.
Still massively expensive for a sensor in a can, way better than the scalpers at ZWO but definitely still in scalper territory . You can get a new Sony a7 2 with lens for around 1300$ same resolution and a full frame, has 2 screens, buttons , ergonomic grip, sensor shift and internal software to take pictures without a PC. Even paying for the higher efficiency sensor for the camera in a can the lack of all the other hardware should keep it much closer to the Sony in price, not over 1k$ more
As always, a good raw image comparison would tell the full story. But this is essentially a clone of the ZWO 2400MC Pro, same pixel size, same everything. If it performs the same in practice, then yeah, we have a competitor to lower the prices of ZWO :) If not, then we'll have to wait a bit longer.
A lot of refractors can produce a full frame image of course! It's not hype, it's a matter of priorities: resolution vs signal per pixel vs field of view, the usual. Nothing bad or good about 24MP, it depends on the scope and the needs of the imager
@@muayaddrdentist2313 that's not correct. USB-C is the port form factor. Just like USB-A and USB-B. USB-C could only support USB 2 if the implementor of the device so chose.
I wonder what will be available in a couple of years since I've already blown this year's and next year's (and possibly more) astro budget... Otherwise, I'd probably get it since it isn't locked in the the ZWO ecosystem.
I'll bet you've got a vignette as hell. I find the match with the RedCat51, very inappropriate. At a pixel scale that big, I think all the pictures will look like they are out of focus. Not even drizzling will save you . But I look forward to the test results.
You can also buy directly from Touptek. Or if you prefer to have local support and you're in North America, you get buy from Ogma (I have a link and a coupon in the description)!
I wouldn't stress about it. Every single thing in the chain get more expensive with a full frame, if even one component is enough to throw you off then there's no need to even think about it.
Yeah, full frame makes every single thing more expensive at the same time, not just the camera. And Mono makes things even more expensive as you noted!
I don't get the obsession with the megapixel count, it's not a relevant measure on its own - sensor size, pixel size, and the scope it is paired with is what is important. It's a matter of priorities: resolution vs signal per pixel vs field of view, the usual. Nothing bad or good about 24MP, it depends on the scope and the needs of the imager.
lmfao hate to break it to u but this is a 2400 variation... IMX410, ZWO also uses IMX sensors... they are made by sony. It's the same sensor lol. IMX410. The touptek that uses the same sensor as the ZWO 6200 is also using the same IMX sensor... IMX455 The touptek Skyeye 62AM
Megapixel count is not a relevant measure on its own - sensor size, pixel size, and the scope it is paired with is what is important. It's a matter of priorities: resolution vs signal per pixel vs field of view, the usual. Nothing bad or good about 24MP, it depends on the scope and the needs of the imager. The ZWO 6200MM is $3800, the equivalent SkyEye 62AM from Touptek is $3600, we're simply not in the same range of prices. And the ZWO 2400MC is the one with the same sensor as the SkyEye 24AC
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You are far from a "Lazy" Geek with all this good work you are putting in!
(I am a Patreon supporter!)
Thank you so much and thank you for your support! Yeah, the lazy moniker may be somewhat overstated :)
Hi Cuiv,
I have had this camera (for about 6 months now) and am BLOWN AWAY with its performance. I have matched it up with the Orion EON 130mm refractor, the Orion ED80T refractor, and the Celestron 11" EdgeHD at f/10 and was amazed at the results. I recently matched it with the Starizon Hyperstar for the EdgeHD (f/1.8) and again, was blown away with the results. Sure, there is some vignetting but taking flats and using those gradient removal tools eliminated most of it. I am betting that once you test it when your weather clears, you WILL NOT want to send it back.
Clear skies
- Patrick -
That is high praise! Thank you Patrick, can't wait to have some fun with it :)
Switching to M54 optics chain will give you muche better results I garantie. I tested it.
You got some videos of it?
Recently made the switch to a nina mini pc from ASIAIR. Loving all the extra camera options and gear after the switch. Enjoy the non zwo reviews. Keep it up!
Congrats on the switch! There's a learning curve but it's worth it!
That looks amazing Cuiv looking forward to first light!!
Coming soon!
haha Cuiv I did see your little edit at top right of picture! hilarious! 😂 ( 1:09 )
Joking aside, this camera is incredible for the money Cuiv. That sensor really is enormous compared to even the APSC size! The price is awesome too! Admittedly though, I won't be able to afford one for a while after just buying a 8" RC 'scope!
Thanks as always for the great content Cuiv, love the channel!
Wes, Liverpool, England.
Thanks so much Wes, and you're the second one to notice that little edit and comment on it 🤣 I do love it when these little things are caught :)
Enjoy you RC8 for now, you don't need new cameras....... Yet 😂
Good purchase Cuive, let brings you a lot of joy!
It's unfortunately just a loaner item, I will have to give it back to Touptek after testing!
Really interesting camera dude!! Love those big pixels :-D
(I also caught the "thats what she said" LOL)
Thanks so much Luke! And you're the third one to notice and comment 😂
Cuiv, my wife and I are extremely new to astrophotography. We absolutely love your videos, but we may have to slow down watching your videos because you make us want to spend so much money on all these cool toys. JK, mostly. Your enthusiasm for it and the way you just seem to get joy from all of this just makes watching your channel a complete joy and makes me want to just dive head first into the hobby with reckless abandon, even when I sometimes don't fully understand everything you're saying.
I do wish I knew of some better resources to help me learn what all the technical terms you're using are, or in a lot of cases, when you're talking about specs, what good specs look like and their significance.
Thanks so much for the feedback! This hobby combines so many things I love, from cool tech to challenge to maths and physics to feelings of accomplishment :-) but yes, do NOT overspend on it and be happy with what you have ;)
As for the terms, I have older videos that go through that, for instance this one: ruclips.net/video/GKXkM_FbFgg/видео.htmlsi=Dc1tI3PtJvf0pR3F , and I have a full series on "Noise in Astrophotography" that's several years old now, but that should help!
Nice camera, With Sharpcap the camera manufacturer has to supply the driver SDK to the devoper, once he has it it should be included in the next program update
Regarding the backlight LEDs: ToupTek added an option to disable backlights in their current stable ASCOM driver. However, this only works with newer cameras, even if the option is visible for older models, too. I guess it should work with this brand new camera though.
x2 drizzle handles the undersample very nicely
Exactly!
Hi Cuiv! Look out for the touptek astrostation to replace your air for that setup.
Yessssss, I'm so waiting for that thing!
Need this is my life when/if it becomes available in mono. Pixel size is big for my scopes, but give/take. Looks like a great option either way. Nice intro review.
It's too bad Sony doesn't make a monochrome version of the IMX410!
If this is a newer model it will support turning the LEDs off via the SDK. Maybe you can check in N.I.N.A. if the toggle does anything for it. Better to have them off as tape can still bleed some light :)
Stefan! Thank you, I didn't realize the newer models supported turning off the LEDs via SDK, I'll have a look!
Great choice for long focal length setups.
Yep!
Hi Cuiv, I use the Omegon veTEC 571c (basically a Touptec Camera) and I do have an option in SharpCap to switch between HCG and LCG. The Omegon even uses the Touptec driver. Sharpcap Version (4.1.12338.0).
Yep, Omegon, Risingcam, even Altair are rebranded or based on Touptek cameras :) Weird that you get that option in Sharpcap, I was pretty sure I had the latest version, I will check!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek As far as I now, they upadetd the Touptek driver framework in the latest SharpCap Version but maybe the camera ist still to new. Hopefully you get some clear skys soon. :)
yeah people fail to realize you can get some of the resolution back from undersampling by drizzling data it just needs to be well dithered
I've not come across this company before, but the prices are certainly more attractive than the competition. Thanks for the video.
I've actually been using their cameras for several years, they're solid
For non-Astro photography I went from a APS-c sensor to a full frame and was totally blown away with the extra detail and crop ability that it gave. Signal to noise and observable dynamic range were in a completely different class. I expect in Astro use it will be the same.
I’m 100% brought into the ZWO ecosystem so unless I want to spend even more money, I’d have to go for the ZWO offering
Same experience for me, although I only used a full frame DSLR to compare. Somehow the full frame sensor is not only the size, but captures more detail and a level of smoothness to it and as you said, it's a class on its own. Even with a DSLR!
Looking forward to seeing the test images! Does this camera have amp glow?
No amp glow!
have you thought about the Touptek astrostation, instead of asiair Cuiv?
Yessss, I'm waiting for the AstroStation!
I have this camera since 6 mounth and I must admit that is very important to switch from M48 to M54 to avoid vigneting, otherwise even with flats you will need to crop the image which is a shame. Regarding your graph and your axplanations, I should test acquisitions with gain at 500 in Nina as I use 3200 iso on my Nikon Z6 which has the same sensor that satisfy me perfectly.
I think I may have said this before Cuiv but I would prefer the power supply was optional. I use Eagle and Stellarmate Pro mini pcs which can easily handle the power requirements for most cooled cameras. I have a red cat set up similar to yours so will be very interested to see your results with this full frame camera. I have never used a full frame camera myself, they're a bit out of my price range but nice to see them coming down a bit in price.
the power supply is so cheap, also it is solid way for touptek to verify working voltage conditions in customer support situations.
@@GrundleStiltSkin first I already have a box full of them. Second, speaking as a retired electronics technician the only way to reliably verify the voltage conditions during use is to test them with appropriate test gear. Third, I never said you shouldn't have the option of having one supplied if you want one, just that you should be given the choice. I don't know what country you live in but In the UK I don't find them particularly cheap (due to the 20% VAT we have to pay).
Yeah I understand the feeling - it's always a hard balancing act for manufacturers (even phone makers struggled with that for a long time!)
Nice video - I’ve been considering the ASI 2400mc pro for some time to pair with my C9.25 but at $3k it’s a bit rich for me and they almost never come up for sale used.
This could be the game changer for me!
So, one question - does the AR glass reject/filter out IR? Is that why there is the choice of IR cut? I’d like to choose for myself to block IR or not…
The AR glass lets everything in, so you indeed get the choice!
what would be min image Circle Telescope 44mm always wondered if that was enough for Full frame, like the PHQ line
Do like that, it’s effectively a ASI2600 with real Bin 2. Should give bright low noise images.
Yes indeed! Although if read noise is swamped on the 6200, then software Bin 2 should basically be the same as the real hardware Bin 2 :)
I have essentially the Orion Branded version of this Imager, It along with a 90 MM Orion Caron Fiber Fiber APO, AM5 mount are headed to StarFront Observatories in Texas late next Week for a remote imaging setup . Hope to Present as the Opening Video for my new Channel coming in September. Cuiv Your Awesome, hope to compare results !
That's awesome Richard! Enjoy the camera and the process of setting up your remote imaging rig!
Wow $600 cheaper than the ZWO camera I know which one I would buy, it looks great Cuiv look forward to seeing the insane widefield images you're going to get with that.
You won't be disappointed ;)
I'm not sure why you don't compare to the 6200 more directly if you're comparing price points, but its pretty clear how Touptek is hitting a lower price with a lower spec sensor. In my mind they're both valid - Touptek offers a good camera for the right optics at a good price if you want that field of view, while with ZWO's offering, you are clearly getting a more capable sensor for your extra money, and either may be the right choice depending on what you are after.
Thanks for all you video! I'm thinking about the MX410..but I'm confusing by the IMX455 still full frame. I know all their differnences (n. pixel, pixel dimension, bit resolution), I kow that bigger pixel of the 410 captures more signal with respect smaller one, as you explain. But why to not consider binning capabilities of that camera? the 3,76 can become about 7,5 micron pixel...that I think it is better than 5,94 micron pixel and it can be good for above 1000 mm focal length telescopes. Read Noise of the 455 seems lower than the 410...You have explained about 14 vs 16 bit...But summarizing, what would be your choice between the IMX410 and the IMX455? Thanks!!
No reply?...😥
When are we going to see your “under the stars” test of this camera!
Excellent overview Cuiv. I wish there was a mono version of the IMX410 but there's no sign of it happening in the near future, if ever. I'm in the market for the full frame camera for my RC and will probably have to go down the ASI6200mm route. Anyway, looking forward to seeing your test images when you manage to get some clear skies.
Thanks Pete! And you're right, it looks like at this stage the 6200MM (and variants from Player One and I assume others) is the only monochrome full frame camera that fits the bill at this stage...
I’d be curious to know how this camera works with a long focal length SCT.
Using the frankenmount though. What's the mini PC underneath?
The fact that it's not red sells it for me!
Eh, right then 🙄.
@Astronurd this may be a suprise, but people like expensive stuff to be a certain color, ie: cars, homes, boats etc..astro cams should fit somewhere in there. Personally I wish there was more blue! Marketing 101 stipulates product divergence can be achieved with simple color changes.
Hahaha I know you don't really care about the color but this made me laugh :)
Big pixel size is the best thing because of the larger field of view (imagine the field offered by this camera at f/2.2 on RASA 11, it would be 3.3 x 2.2 degrees, and the resolution will be 1.98"/pixel), which is really big.
It's just a trade off between resolution and per pixel signal!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Absolutely. Definitely the most important thing for those (especially) who do photometry, because they really need the biggest SNR and dynamic range possible, so in this case the dropped resolution is not an issue.
Yesterday, I was also looking at various websites that were referring to bining for astroimaging, and indeed, it seems that by bining they are able to capture very dim details, plus that the binned images were a bit sharper. Have you ever try it so far? I think this Touptek beast can bin even 4x4 (ok, it is a cmos, so it can be done from the software, I guess..). What are your thoughts?
Touptek is making gains on ZWO recently and I like it as the prices are going down. Like Cuiv I have IMX571 and IMX533 based OSC cams from Touptek and boy they perform! Now let's wait for Touptek's Air equivalent which looks like it won't be supporting Touptek cams only. Interesting times!
Touptek's Air equivalent. THIS!!
I have QHY and ZWO 571 cameras. Thinking of setting up a third rig and will be going Touptek next. They’re awesome
Yes, Touptek has brought a lot of competition to the hobby, and ZWO has been able to keep its own pricing thanks to the ASIAir ecosystem - I'm really hoping the Touptek AstroStation can change the game!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek I shall be ordering an Astro station next week can't wait!!
Touptek actually has been in the camera sensor business far longer than ZWO. They also have been selling professional equipment long before ZWO existed. Microscopes and security cameras etc, but they are a bigger company than ZWO and produce more units and buy more materials, so they can afford to sell their gear cheaper than ZWO.
2 questions, is this more like the 2400MC or the 6200mc/mm and presuming this would Not work with ASIAIR ?
It's the counterpart to the 2400MC, and because it's not ZWO camera, it won't work with the ASIAir...
@@CuivTheLazyGeek I figured as much for Air but wow what a sensor
If they would make one as mono, that would be insane .. 6um for longer focal length!
That would be awesome! Too bad Sony doesn't make a monochrome version of the sensor afaik...
Sony doesn't make a mono version of this sensor unfortunately, but I 100% agree with you
Wow. Can the TOUPTEK 42 CAMERAS be used with ZWO ASI Air ??? I so badly want a colour camera, but their prices are through the roof. And when you said the is the cheaper full Frame camera, that was like nuke explosion in my brain. So looks like full frame colour will never be in my possession
I am screwed. 1. I use the ZWO playground [ASI AirPlus], and 2. I would be forced to get a new rig since my setup 's light cone will vignette severely. Thanks though! I love competition, for sure!
You're not screwed, you just saved money ;)
Hi Cuiv! Great video! Why do you review this camera? I am thinking about afording it for several weeks already. You are somewhat forcing me to click that button. 😂
The pixel size would be perfect for my RC8 that oversamples with my IMX571 cameras.
Hahaha I'm so sorry! If you can afford it you might as well pull the trigger ;) It's really good from my first light
I wish they had mono version. Perfect camera for long FL scope.
I have a question, I have a 8" dobsonian with a 1200 mm focal lenght, what camera would you recommend with my telescope. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
Even with the vignetting, you crop those off, along with the elongated stars, your image is still far bigger than an APS-C sensor! I know, because I had a Nikon full frame DSLR and even though the camera was old, the picture it made was something far better than any aps-c or smaller sensor. It's somehow not only about the size of the sensor, but the surface area of it, just by having that big, it just captures more, the light has more area to "soak in" for the lack of a better word. It's hard to describe, since I'm not a total optics-geek, but the picture will say a 1000 words!
On the other hand, the 2600 APS-C sensor is getting old, the price need to come down, it's crazy it's still sold for the same as it was introduced like 4 years ago? We need the sensors cheaper, the pandemic over, there is no justification for ZWO and the rest to sell those cameras for $2K in 2024!
Is fascinating. I would of course be interested in the zwo system if it was cheaper than the main alternatives. But paying more to be locked into only their ecosystem just surely seems bananas to me
I guess it's up to each :)
The original resolution of the IMX 9576x6388 . What happened? Were have the 16bit gone? Is this cheapness?
Silly question and please forgive my ignorance on the topic but what does full frame mean? Also I am assuming cooling will help with image quality?
It's the most popular professional sensor size used in photography. It's larger than apsc budget camera sensors and provide better image quality than sensors smaller than itself like apsc, MFT, mobile phone etc.
Hi, Cuiv, please let us know your opinion on the fact that 5,98 pixel size should be divided into 4 to get the real effective pixel size (RGGB), that is about 1,5, thus it is not effective as e.g. 3,76 mono IMX571. Is that true? I used ZWO 2600 MC Duo - I was absolutely disappointed and sold it - returned back to a wonderful QHY 268M.
The pixel size if for each pixel - so each pixel is 6um size, and has a color filter on top. The 2600MC (Duo or not) is the same. Each pixel is 3.76um, with a single color filter on top. If you were disappointed by the MC Duo, it's simply that you prefer mono to OSC :)
For a full frame sensor, it is better to use 2" square filters... if you have the money.
Depends on your rig. I shoot with the 6200MM with my f/7 Esprit 120 ED and I am fine with 2 inch mounted filters.
Yeah it will depend on the focal ratio and the distance from the filter to the sensor but yes in general... and then costs go up exponentially!
Did that black box fall out an alien craft?
Definitely :)
I can’t understand why there isn’t a mono version of the IMX410. Particularly as the vast majority of people live under less than ideal conditions and are trying to get the right pixel scale.
Sony doesn't care about our niche... It's almost a happy coincidence that there are monochrome versions of the sensors we love :)
Still massively expensive for a sensor in a can, way better than the scalpers at ZWO but definitely still in scalper territory .
You can get a new Sony a7 2 with lens for around 1300$ same resolution and a full frame, has 2 screens, buttons , ergonomic grip, sensor shift and internal software to take pictures without a PC.
Even paying for the higher efficiency sensor for the camera in a can the lack of all the other hardware should keep it much closer to the Sony in price, not over 1k$ more
As always, a good raw image comparison would tell the full story. But this is essentially a clone of the ZWO 2400MC Pro, same pixel size, same everything. If it performs the same in practice, then yeah, we have a competitor to lower the prices of ZWO :) If not, then we'll have to wait a bit longer.
altair astro have a camera same specs same price wonder if both are made by the same factory ) theirs is the Hypercam AA24CFX
Yep, Altair are typically modified ToupTek cameras :)
My Nikon is a FF ;)
But not NINA compliant 😢
Sooooo sad
Noooo :(
"That's what she said!!!" 😂😂😂😂
I'm so glad someone noticed!!!! Thank you!!!
Which scope can produce a full frame image? And then, only 24MP? It's this "full frame" hipe".
A lot of refractors can produce a full frame image of course! It's not hype, it's a matter of priorities: resolution vs signal per pixel vs field of view, the usual. Nothing bad or good about 24MP, it depends on the scope and the needs of the imager
Ciao Cuiv, hai provato questa montatura? juwei 17 harmonic mount
Ha un prezzo molto interesse. Vorrei un tuo prezioso parere :) grazie
Not yet, no plans yet, I'm a bit tired of reviewing mounts haha
Can you use it with an ASIAIR?
Nope! ASIAIR is ZWO astro cameras only!
6:02 USB 3 != USB-C
USB c =USB 2 USB 3.0 , 3.1 and 3.2 all in one.
@@muayaddrdentist2313 that's not correct. USB-C is the port form factor. Just like USB-A and USB-B. USB-C could only support USB 2 if the implementor of the device so chose.
Thanks! I indeed misspoke, should have said USB THRee and not CEE :) and as you mention later, USB-C is just the form factor :)
And the guiding sensor seems so ridiculous !!! 🤣🤣🤣
Hahaha true!
Commenting for engagement.
Appreciated, thank you!
I wonder what will be available in a couple of years since I've already blown this year's and next year's (and possibly more) astro budget... Otherwise, I'd probably get it since it isn't locked in the the ZWO ecosystem.
Yeah don't overspend!
I'll bet you've got a vignette as hell. I find the match with the RedCat51, very inappropriate. At a pixel scale that big, I think all the pictures will look like they are out of focus. Not even drizzling will save you . But I look forward to the test results.
I promise to surprise you then ;) I do have some initial results now mwahahaha
Woo!!
Indeed!
Is this an AliExpress camera? Anyone have customer support experience with them.
You can also buy directly from Touptek. Or if you prefer to have local support and you're in North America, you get buy from Ogma (I have a link and a coupon in the description)!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek thanks, you see you’re not lazy at all.
good price for a osc, but i'll keep crying until a mono full frame comes around that dosn't cost the same as a new car ...
I wouldn't stress about it. Every single thing in the chain get more expensive with a full frame, if even one component is enough to throw you off then there's no need to even think about it.
Yeah, full frame makes every single thing more expensive at the same time, not just the camera. And Mono makes things even more expensive as you noted!
Not sure what car you are referring to!
@@SydneyDunk exaggeration, just a joke, mono full frame is dam expensive!
I really like this channel but i had to file bankruptcy after watching this.
Please do not buy cameras you can't afford ;)
@@CuivTheLazyGeek That is a good price for a full frame and don't worry I was joking on the bankruptcy thing. LOL
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
I hope we will find it cheaper than this full frame camera.
We'll see !
I'll happily stick to established manufacturers and pay the difference without complaint.
Fair enough! Touptek is getting to be quite an established manufacturer these days though
nice... still can't afford that kind of gear tho lol
Hahaha yes! Me neither but it's fun to play with!
Photo sample was required
I explain right in the video why I decided to go with this initial unboxing (and it's also in the title)
Nice but those files are HUGE!
Careful you do not drop that camera!!
Hey I'm not Linus from Linus Tech Tips, I don't drop things (except my C6 Hyperstar, shattering the corrector plate, but that's another story :p)
Looks like a Malljncam clone!
Man astro equipment is so expensive.. it's still 2400 USD..
About $100/megapixel... 🤣
I don't get the obsession with the megapixel count, it's not a relevant measure on its own - sensor size, pixel size, and the scope it is paired with is what is important. It's a matter of priorities: resolution vs signal per pixel vs field of view, the usual. Nothing bad or good about 24MP, it depends on the scope and the needs of the imager.
the ZWO 6200 is a 60+ megapixel camera. The iMX is not even close.
lmfao hate to break it to u but this is a 2400 variation... IMX410, ZWO also uses IMX sensors... they are made by sony. It's the same sensor lol. IMX410. The touptek that uses the same sensor as the ZWO 6200 is also using the same IMX sensor... IMX455 The touptek Skyeye 62AM
Megapixel count is not a relevant measure on its own - sensor size, pixel size, and the scope it is paired with is what is important. It's a matter of priorities: resolution vs signal per pixel vs field of view, the usual. Nothing bad or good about 24MP, it depends on the scope and the needs of the imager. The ZWO 6200MM is $3800, the equivalent SkyEye 62AM from Touptek is $3600, we're simply not in the same range of prices. And the ZWO 2400MC is the one with the same sensor as the SkyEye 24AC