I like the idea of calling Chaos-Control-Warriors meta for GOAT format an RPS, but I think it is a bit of an oversimplification there. However, for newer players to the format, I can see it helping. Control definitely has an upper hand on Warriors but I think nowadays especially the advantage Chaos has over Control is quite small.
I think you misunderstood the how chaos warrior came up into the meta game. When it came up it was never designed to counter chaos but was actually desgined to counter goat control while beeing okay against chaos at the same time (which wasnt even popular back then). If you look at geistD deck, it does play 3 book of moon to counter Ter. It does play skilled dark over kycoo because it doesnt die to tsukyomi and it also doesnt play cards like trap dust shoot nor lv2 to counter chaos. so at this point it was chaos warrior > goat control. After chaos warrior found its way into the meta game chaos turbo decks came to counter chaos warrior and GC at the same time. You see that siwski list had 3 book of moon also. Now it was turbo > GC and turbo > chaos warrior. From this point goat control became less popular and warriors started to play cards like trap dust shoot over book of moon and kycoo over skilled dark to compete with chaos. So to conclude it dont think this cycle really exists, its only a matter of the expected meta game and the amount of tech cards you play. In particular, each of the three decks can beat each other just depending on the amount of book of moon, kycoo, trap dust shoot you play and those tech choices just depend on the expected meta game and the past showed exactly this
I think the main problem Goat Control had was that people played for the mirror. Then new decks showed up and they started losing. If you through the detox Goat Control build and make some changes thinking about the meta as a whole and not thinking about the mirror (which is much less common today) then I think Goat Control has a big chance of making a comeback. There are some cards that are very good vs both Warriors and Chaos. I have been trying this on DB with some success.
I think there is definitely room to make GC better but on a whole this statement is incorrect. People have learned that Scapegoat and Metamorphosis themselves aren't good card and are the main problem of why the deck does not perform. TER is good, but the other 5-6 cards you're running to get to it aren't.
@@robinwesterbeeke1498 They have no easy outs and if they bring out Chaos Sorc to kill goats faster that's what you want to see. Also if you play Creature Swap it is even better.
Goat format is BY DEFINITION the most skill based format. This is simply because... Everyone's playing the same cards. Now go flip some magician of faiths face up you skilled lads.
It's all fun and games and theory-oh the fact that Warriors beat Chaos Turbo. Recently even this theory went down a lot because Warriors started to lose systematically to Chaos Turbo...for example on Clash of Champions 2 Ivan Rossitto went straight 5/0 defeating every opponent and every Warrior he met 2/0 on this matchup specifically.
@@GoatDuels Yeah but it seems that like reasoning gate and burn before warrior have the bad post side matchu-up problem. Turbo players tend to enter 6 or 7 cards which can be a big problem for the warrior player.
That's because gk spy is lika sword of revealing light for warrior, once you stall a few turn in order to draw the power cards of the format warrior has no chance to recover chaos turbo's +
Not a bad video but I think your view is outdated. The big three is Chaos Turbo, Warrior and Chaos control (thunder dragon chaos with goat and meta). CC is an overall better GC deck. Goat control have been a rogue deck for the past 2 years.
Actually, I think that the view that CC is just a better GC deck is outdated. GC is getting MORE tops at events than CC even though LESS people are playing it. That should be a good indicator as to what the better deck is.
sadly, I'm pretty sure burn>all. its the true control deck of the format. I run cylinder, triple wave motion, double lava golem, double panda, triple level limit, cyber and morphing jar, stealth birds.....yeah it's evil.
I agree with everything except your last point how well you play Vs what deck you pick deck selection matters most more than 60% when it comes to tournaments it's far more important. At high levels everyone is playing well the only edge is to pick a better deck
Your discussion fails to differentiate between chaos control and chaos turbo and lacks nuance because of it. When you take out Chaos Control from the 3 mentioned, Chaos Turbo *actually* is 50-50 vs warrior, Goat Control *actually* has an edge vs Chaos Turbo. Goat Control *actually* is 50-50 vs warrior. So why isn't Goat Control *the best* of the 3? Because Chaos Control has an edge vs Goat Control. So why isn't Chaos Control the best deck? Because Turbo has an edge vs Chaos Control. To complicate things further, Chaos Control is the only deck that has an edge vs warrior. So, the game of RPS is counterintuitively enough, Turbo beats Chaos Control beats Goat beats Turbo. Meanwhile Warrior is a coin toss rather than RPS but is foiled by Chaos Control. These stylized facts are from the 2020 goat world championship, which is good enough for me.
"Chaos Control" arguably loses to all 3 of the main decks decks mentioned, which is why it underperforms the most in tournaments relative to its popularity. All recent tournaments have had only 0-1 copies in top8 even though it's the 3rd most popular deck. It gets less value out of Scapegoat than Goat Control does and less value out of its Chaos cards than Standard Chaos does. I might do a video about this later, as I think this is a pretty big misconception among a lot of players.
Why Angel Chaos Is not meta? It's like goat control on steroids. Do you think Is a top deck now even if not meta? You're the creator of It so you're more than qualified to answer the question.
The answer is complicated, so I might have to do a full video to answer that question. The short answer is that Goat Control has more flexibility and options to counter the meta than the other decks with Metamorphosis in them.
To some extent I'm trying to trade draw Power in lieu of flexibility. Tribe with jinzo and serpent can be powerful, but is not traditionally played, as you know, in Angel Chaos, due to the absence of targets such as jinzo. Premature burial over coh was a tough choice but having a card which I can immediately activate is a bit Better, but was a tough choice as you know the coh jinzo combo Is good. Not speaking of the 800 lp that you pay, but the absence of solemn made me choose prem. Jinzo can give you a huge advantage against Warrior, burn and Chaos turbo, but can be inconsistent.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
Dat triple Solemn Judgment @ 8:13 lol
That's the sort of play that makes you wanna flip the table if you're on the receiving end XD
and then Panda burn laughs at everyone
Panda burn easy to counter with side deck
@@jasonhansen9 even with side deck its a coin flip. Wouldnt call it easy just because you have 2 mystic woks
Burn decks aren't that much of a problem unless it's a ftk and you brick but under those conditions most decks have the same advantages
The summary in the end is very well chosen
that last game that guy had 3 solemn. that's hysterical
I like the idea of calling Chaos-Control-Warriors meta for GOAT format an RPS, but I think it is a bit of an oversimplification there. However, for newer players to the format, I can see it helping.
Control definitely has an upper hand on Warriors but I think nowadays especially the advantage Chaos has over Control is quite small.
I think you misunderstood the how chaos warrior came up into the meta game. When it came up it was never designed to counter chaos but was actually desgined to counter goat control while beeing okay against chaos at the same time (which wasnt even popular back then). If you look at geistD deck, it does play 3 book of moon to counter Ter. It does play skilled dark over kycoo because it doesnt die to tsukyomi and it also doesnt play cards like trap dust shoot nor lv2 to counter chaos. so at this point it was chaos warrior > goat control. After chaos warrior found its way into the meta game chaos turbo decks came to counter chaos warrior and GC at the same time. You see that siwski list had 3 book of moon also. Now it was turbo > GC and turbo > chaos warrior. From this point goat control became less popular and warriors started to play cards like trap dust shoot over book of moon and kycoo over skilled dark to compete with chaos. So to conclude it dont think this cycle really exists, its only a matter of the expected meta game and the amount of tech cards you play. In particular, each of the three decks can beat each other just depending on the amount of book of moon, kycoo, trap dust shoot you play and those tech choices just depend on the expected meta game and the past showed exactly this
Thanks for the vid. Helps a lot in understanding history of goat meta and basic skeletons.
I think the main problem Goat Control had was that people played for the mirror. Then new decks showed up and they started losing. If you through the detox Goat Control build and make some changes thinking about the meta as a whole and not thinking about the mirror (which is much less common today) then I think Goat Control has a big chance of making a comeback. There are some cards that are very good vs both Warriors and Chaos. I have been trying this on DB with some success.
I think there is definitely room to make GC better but on a whole this statement is incorrect. People have learned that Scapegoat and Metamorphosis themselves aren't good card and are the main problem of why the deck does not perform. TER is good, but the other 5-6 cards you're running to get to it aren't.
@@robinwesterbeeke1498 not sure I agree. Goats are very good vs both warriors and chaos.
@@galthrampt6476 how is scapegoat good vs chaos?
@@robinwesterbeeke1498 They have no easy outs and if they bring out Chaos Sorc to kill goats faster that's what you want to see. Also if you play Creature Swap it is even better.
@@galthrampt6476 lol
I approve this message.
Goat format is BY DEFINITION the most skill based format. This is simply because...
Everyone's playing the same cards. Now go flip some magician of faiths face up you skilled lads.
I think TeleDAD would be up there too; it's a Tier 0 deck so the players are playing the same cards. I quite enjoy both.
Play Yugi Kaiba you cowards
I love my gravekeeper with 3 royal tribute on it XD
It's all fun and games and theory-oh the fact that Warriors beat Chaos Turbo. Recently even this theory went down a lot because Warriors started to lose systematically to Chaos Turbo...for example on Clash of Champions 2 Ivan Rossitto went straight 5/0 defeating every opponent and every Warrior he met 2/0 on this matchup specifically.
I missed the part, where that's my problem.
Ivan is a good player, and good players can overcome bad matchups.
@@GoatDuels Yeah but it seems that like reasoning gate and burn before warrior have the bad post side matchu-up problem. Turbo players tend to enter 6 or 7 cards which can be a big problem for the warrior player.
That's because gk spy is lika sword of revealing light for warrior, once you stall a few turn in order to draw the power cards of the format warrior has no chance to recover chaos turbo's +
Not a bad video but I think your view is outdated. The big three is Chaos Turbo, Warrior and Chaos control (thunder dragon chaos with goat and meta). CC is an overall better GC deck. Goat control have been a rogue deck for the past 2 years.
Actually, I think that the view that CC is just a better GC deck is outdated. GC is getting MORE tops at events than CC even though LESS people are playing it. That should be a good indicator as to what the better deck is.
nice content
Allen Why do I never see deck lists for easy copy and paste?
sadly, I'm pretty sure burn>all. its the true control deck of the format. I run cylinder, triple wave motion, double lava golem, double panda, triple level limit, cyber and morphing jar, stealth birds.....yeah it's evil.
I hope you don’t run triple cylinder or you’d be cheating
@@brandonshort876 my bad, typo.
I agree with everything except your last point how well you play Vs what deck you pick deck selection matters most more than 60% when it comes to tournaments it's far more important. At high levels everyone is playing well the only edge is to pick a better deck
goat control never played decree, they themselves play 10 traps+
Nice
"🤓"
IM SORRY I CANT-
"dozens of competitive decks"
Every top 8: warriors and chaos turbo
Your discussion fails to differentiate between chaos control and chaos turbo and lacks nuance because of it. When you take out Chaos Control from the 3 mentioned, Chaos Turbo *actually* is 50-50 vs warrior, Goat Control *actually* has an edge vs Chaos Turbo. Goat Control *actually* is 50-50 vs warrior. So why isn't Goat Control *the best* of the 3? Because Chaos Control has an edge vs Goat Control. So why isn't Chaos Control the best deck? Because Turbo has an edge vs Chaos Control. To complicate things further, Chaos Control is the only deck that has an edge vs warrior.
So, the game of RPS is counterintuitively enough, Turbo beats Chaos Control beats Goat beats Turbo. Meanwhile Warrior is a coin toss rather than RPS but is foiled by Chaos Control.
These stylized facts are from the 2020 goat world championship, which is good enough for me.
"Chaos Control" arguably loses to all 3 of the main decks decks mentioned, which is why it underperforms the most in tournaments relative to its popularity. All recent tournaments have had only 0-1 copies in top8 even though it's the 3rd most popular deck. It gets less value out of Scapegoat than Goat Control does and less value out of its Chaos cards than Standard Chaos does. I might do a video about this later, as I think this is a pretty big misconception among a lot of players.
What was Blud waffeling
Why Angel Chaos Is not meta?
It's like goat control on steroids.
Do you think Is a top deck now even if not meta?
You're the creator of It so you're more than qualified to answer the question.
The answer is complicated, so I might have to do a full video to answer that question. The short answer is that Goat Control has more flexibility and options to counter the meta than the other decks with Metamorphosis in them.
To some extent I'm trying to trade draw Power in lieu of flexibility. Tribe with jinzo and serpent can be powerful, but is not traditionally played, as you know, in Angel Chaos, due to the absence of targets such as jinzo.
Premature burial over coh was a tough choice but having a card which I can immediately activate is a bit Better, but was a tough choice as you know the coh jinzo combo Is good. Not speaking of the 800 lp that you pay, but the absence of solemn made me choose prem.
Jinzo can give you a huge advantage against Warrior, burn and Chaos turbo, but can be inconsistent.
Neat lol