Consider having a small pond with duckweed, that is excellent fodder for pigs and chickens, might also work with cattle (high protein and fat content). Takota Coen uses that (a video where he shows how he does morning chores in 1 hour (or how they produce pork), he has a central hub where he does that and the cows hang out there and present for milking (he has only 2) and the pigs are in an enclosure. he has a "spoke" system with gates that allow animals access - to the pond, fields, pasture, etc. He lets the pigs dig up cattail from the poond (or around the pond) but not always they would make a complete mess. And he brings them the duckweed, which is not much work, he fishes it out, into a wheel barrow, distances are not long. The pond is also lower and some nutrients from manure will be swept in by rain or melting snow (it is in Canada). That is intentional. There are not so many animals to overload the pond, but enough to keep it fertilized, so it is highly productive, the production per area and the nutritious value is higher than with soy minus the substances that are detrimental in soy (and they have consumers who buy eggs and meat from them because they are super sensitive against soy even when only used as fodder). The pond water is not drinking water, but the frogs and other amphibian lifeforms do not mind at all.
great stuff, thank you Steve, almost all of those species grows very well where i live in México, gonna try them for sure! Black Locust grows super fast, it's fascinating.
One element that can change the economics of tree based systems is to include bees in the calculation. Sumac can provide 100lb/ac honey. Sugar maple changes from most valuable to least because it's so stingy with nectar. Pussy willow changes from so-so fodder to the most valuable tree since it produces a lot of pollen very early. Since the bees can travel 1/2 mile, you don't need to own the land and satellite yards aren't too hard to negotiate, so it fits with a small homestead situation.
I asked on a forum for sheep farmers what people's experience was feeding black locust to sheep and was lambasted by the group for suggesting they poison their sheep with that toxic tree. I tried to do more research on it and found some old studies by Purdue in the 1980's where they planted some, but couldn't find their results. I'm doubtful of the research by ag. schools, anyways, they also tell people it's ok to feed copper to sheep. Also, I've got willow and mulberry and my animals aren't very interested in eating them. They'll eat a little bit then walk away, leaving the rest. They do like the invasive bush honeysuckle and peach leaves, but I've been told wilted peach leaves are also toxic to them.
Sepp Holzer plants some "toxic" plants at the edges of pastures. His animals that roam in the mountains and only have a shelter seem to be smarter than the usual domesticated breeds, when they are sick or have parasites, they go for small quanities, and it helps them like medicine. On the other hand I watched a video of people that lost a goat that ate rhododendron or mountain laurel (homesteady) It was a young (inexperienced) goat and there was not a lot of fodder, they had them to clear some hills from shrubs and weeds (and these plants may taste well). your sheep seem to know what is good for them, so if you offer them a variety of "unusual" trees and plants where they can snack (but not too much) they might self medicate.
Willow is high in tannin, so your sheep would need something to offset the negative effects of tannin. See Dr. Fred Provenza's talks and research. One example: tannin counters the alkaloid in Kentucky 31 tall fescue.
I wish there was some research on using tree forage in early spring. Early spring lush grass has too much easy to digest protein. Could tree paddocks be used instead. Would save a lot of hay costs.
I didn’t see anything about sweet gum. Here on my property in Eastern NC I have lots of poplar, maple, sweet gum as well as loblolly and holly, with few mulberry and blueberry. Sweet gum and maple are probably the most prolific, though each has its own area it likes to grow, with few mixed areas. I am trying to wrap my head around how this is beneficial at all, once labor is considered. I cannot imagine cutting my young forest in this manner and then harvesting for forage. Nor do I understand how one would harvest the fodder and store it properly for the winter, without huge labor cost.
@5:45 "find positive interaction and benefit to all parties. these aren't systems that just benefit the animals, they can also benefit the trees and can also benefit the forages." and so much more! Mutualism and trees go hand in hand
Good morning, I have a question about the variety of ideal livestock in a plot of 50 ha. Can poultry be on the same area on a free range. Can it be chicken, ducks, emu, Also if we want to include a fresh water fishery
I have enough land to graze a nice flock of sheep around 10 or 20 sheep. It's not enough for traditional haying though. I'm just curious Steve do you think it's possible to combine those species of tree crops to create winter tree hay that is nutritionally complete? without any other feed? I was imagining growing root crops and creating windbreaks that would double as winter tree hay as well has harvest nitrogen fixing trees like honey or black locust, siberian pea shrub etc that I'd have planted next to fruit trees. Do you think storing fruit, root veggies and tree hay would be healther than commercial feed? I can't find any clear answers to these questions anywhere. I realize there isn't a lot of research but I'd assume it was possible in the past before grain and hay production right? This is all very exciting for me because it would change my ideas of how much livestock I can have on my land. If it's feasible I imagine having a sustainable flock of ducks and chickens and a flock of sheep without costly outside inputs. I've been growing a lot of my own food for about 7 years now and felt I couldn't have enough animals on my property to be sustainable. I've been meditating on a closed loop system including just enough animals to breed a closed flock without inbreeding. I have about 30 species of veggies I save the seeds for and am self sufficient with compost from fall leaves used as deep litter for my chickens and ducks along with leaf mold in place of peat moss for potting things up. If I can figure out a way to sustain animals on my property the way I do soil fertility and vegetables it would be such a good feeling. All I need is gravity fed water on the slope along with sunshine and I have all that I need. I dream of having a small scale system like this to showcase how we do not actually need interstate shipping of basic needs. It's just too fragile of a system we have. Sickening really. Anyhow thanks for the work that you are doing Steve.
If you want to raise sheep without grain go for one of the thrifty hill breeds,small to medium sized sheep can do very well on fodder alone.Look in to adaptive multi-paddock grazing to max fertility and length of grazing season on your land.
@Mahna Farms Depends on breed and genetics,lots of people are finishing out wintered animals without grain or shelter,get the livestock best suited to your resources.
@Mahna Farms No thanks,if you look around the are plenty of examples of successful grass finished beef or sheep operations around. It's all about the genetics and well managed pasture.
Hello, wonderful information and presentation! I am just learning of, and investigating "tree hay" as a winter forage / supplement for goats. I have lots of willow and mulberry on my property as well as sugar and silver maple, so I'm very excited to see I have two of the "fab four". LOL. However, I can't find any information about feeding from the maples. Would they be a good combo with the other two? Can you point me in the direction of any nutritional information regarding Maple trees? Thanks so much.
Maple here is linked to atypical myiopathy in horses. Fine in the morning, euthenasia by evening. And even without that mine won't touch the stuff. Go easy on the willow too, it is the original form of asperin and comes with possible stomach problems in unrefined form when fed too much.
@49:25 that mixed-age black locust row is awesome. Do you find it spreads aggressively? I imagine animals help moderate it. I propagated some black locust but am reluctant to plant it on farmland that isn't necessarily mine to steward long term, out of concern and hearing from others how it could get out of control. As far as things to spread out of control, black locust seems like a pretty good thing, with many co-benefits en route to mass reforestation!
where in georgia are you? you could probably use chestnut, since it is among the fastest in growth and nut production. Additionally, it produces good lumber along with being a food source for you and your creatures.
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Thank you sir, this is what I was looking for. Very helpful.
Consider having a small pond with duckweed, that is excellent fodder for pigs and chickens, might also work with cattle (high protein and fat content). Takota Coen uses that (a video where he shows how he does morning chores in 1 hour (or how they produce pork), he has a central hub where he does that and the cows hang out there and present for milking (he has only 2) and the pigs are in an enclosure. he has a "spoke" system with gates that allow animals access - to the pond, fields, pasture, etc.
He lets the pigs dig up cattail from the poond (or around the pond) but not always they would make a complete mess. And he brings them the duckweed, which is not much work, he fishes it out, into a wheel barrow, distances are not long.
The pond is also lower and some nutrients from manure will be swept in by rain or melting snow (it is in Canada). That is intentional. There are not so many animals to overload the pond, but enough to keep it fertilized, so it is highly productive, the production per area and the nutritious value is higher than with soy minus the substances that are detrimental in soy (and they have consumers who buy eggs and meat from them because they are super sensitive against soy even when only used as fodder).
The pond water is not drinking water, but the frogs and other amphibian lifeforms do not mind at all.
great stuff, thank you Steve, almost all of those species grows very well where i live in México, gonna try them for sure! Black Locust grows super fast, it's fascinating.
thank you for bringing up the native people. They have a lot to teach and we have much to give to them for all our lives. in the americas
Actually, they gained more from Europeans than the other way around.
@@scionofliberty2967 yeah, like having 90% of their population wiped out and the collapse of older civilizations than Rome. Definitely a gain 🙄
@@cameronbuttigieg9060 of you are a mindless sheep and believe all the deceptions you are force fed
This is highly valuable information. Thank you.
One element that can change the economics of tree based systems is to include bees in the calculation. Sumac can provide 100lb/ac honey. Sugar maple changes from most valuable to least because it's so stingy with nectar. Pussy willow changes from so-so fodder to the most valuable tree since it produces a lot of pollen very early. Since the bees can travel 1/2 mile, you don't need to own the land and satellite yards aren't too hard to negotiate, so it fits with a small homestead situation.
Excellent information. Many thanks for your time and energy
Thank you
I asked on a forum for sheep farmers what people's experience was feeding black locust to sheep and was lambasted by the group for suggesting they poison their sheep with that toxic tree. I tried to do more research on it and found some old studies by Purdue in the 1980's where they planted some, but couldn't find their results. I'm doubtful of the research by ag. schools, anyways, they also tell people it's ok to feed copper to sheep. Also, I've got willow and mulberry and my animals aren't very interested in eating them. They'll eat a little bit then walk away, leaving the rest. They do like the invasive bush honeysuckle and peach leaves, but I've been told wilted peach leaves are also toxic to them.
Sepp Holzer plants some "toxic" plants at the edges of pastures. His animals that roam in the mountains and only have a shelter seem to be smarter than the usual domesticated breeds, when they are sick or have parasites, they go for small quanities, and it helps them like medicine.
On the other hand I watched a video of people that lost a goat that ate rhododendron or mountain laurel (homesteady)
It was a young (inexperienced) goat and there was not a lot of fodder, they had them to clear some hills from shrubs and weeds (and these plants may taste well).
your sheep seem to know what is good for them, so if you offer them a variety of "unusual" trees and plants where they can snack (but not too much) they might self medicate.
Willow is high in tannin, so your sheep would need something to offset the negative effects of tannin. See Dr. Fred Provenza's talks and research. One example: tannin counters the alkaloid in Kentucky 31 tall fescue.
I wish there was some research on using tree forage in early spring. Early spring lush grass has too much easy to digest protein. Could tree paddocks be used instead. Would save a lot of hay costs.
I didn’t see anything about sweet gum. Here on my property in Eastern NC I have lots of poplar, maple, sweet gum as well as loblolly and holly, with few mulberry and blueberry. Sweet gum and maple are probably the most prolific, though each has its own area it likes to grow, with few mixed areas. I am trying to wrap my head around how this is beneficial at all, once labor is considered. I cannot imagine cutting my young forest in this manner and then harvesting for forage. Nor do I understand how one would harvest the fodder and store it properly for the winter, without huge labor cost.
@5:45 "find positive interaction and benefit to all parties. these aren't systems that just benefit the animals, they can also benefit the trees and can also benefit the forages." and so much more! Mutualism and trees go hand in hand
Good morning, I have a question about the variety of ideal livestock in a plot of 50 ha. Can poultry be on the same area on a free range.
Can it be chicken, ducks, emu,
Also if we want to include a fresh water fishery
I have enough land to graze a nice flock of sheep around 10 or 20 sheep. It's not enough for traditional haying though. I'm just curious Steve do you think it's possible to combine those species of tree crops to create winter tree hay that is nutritionally complete? without any other feed? I was imagining growing root crops and creating windbreaks that would double as winter tree hay as well has harvest nitrogen fixing trees like honey or black locust, siberian pea shrub etc that I'd have planted next to fruit trees. Do you think storing fruit, root veggies and tree hay would be healther than commercial feed? I can't find any clear answers to these questions anywhere. I realize there isn't a lot of research but I'd assume it was possible in the past before grain and hay production right? This is all very exciting for me because it would change my ideas of how much livestock I can have on my land. If it's feasible I imagine having a sustainable flock of ducks and chickens and a flock of sheep without costly outside inputs. I've been growing a lot of my own food for about 7 years now and felt I couldn't have enough animals on my property to be sustainable. I've been meditating on a closed loop system including just enough animals to breed a closed flock without inbreeding. I have about 30 species of veggies I save the seeds for and am self sufficient with compost from fall leaves used as deep litter for my chickens and ducks along with leaf mold in place of peat moss for potting things up. If I can figure out a way to sustain animals on my property the way I do soil fertility and vegetables it would be such a good feeling. All I need is gravity fed water on the slope along with sunshine and I have all that I need. I dream of having a small scale system like this to showcase how we do not actually need interstate shipping of basic needs. It's just too fragile of a system we have. Sickening really. Anyhow thanks for the work that you are doing Steve.
If you want to raise sheep without grain go for one of the thrifty hill breeds,small to medium sized sheep can do very well on fodder alone.Look in to adaptive multi-paddock grazing to max fertility and length of grazing season on your land.
@Mahna Farms Depends on breed and genetics,lots of people are finishing out wintered animals without grain or shelter,get the livestock best suited to your resources.
@Mahna Farms Icelandic lambs finish in five months on pasture,no grain.
@Mahna Farms No thanks,if you look around the are plenty of examples of successful grass finished beef or sheep operations around. It's all about the genetics and well managed pasture.
@Mahna Farms Now I'm certain you don't know what you are talking about.
Permaculture to save the world
Would caragana work in this application?
Hello, wonderful information and presentation! I am just learning of, and investigating "tree hay" as a winter forage / supplement for goats. I have lots of willow and mulberry on my property as well as sugar and silver maple, so I'm very excited to see I have two of the "fab four". LOL. However, I can't find any information about feeding from the maples. Would they be a good combo with the other two? Can you point me in the direction of any nutritional information regarding Maple trees? Thanks so much.
Maple here is linked to atypical myiopathy in horses. Fine in the morning, euthenasia by evening. And even without that mine won't touch the stuff.
Go easy on the willow too, it is the original form of asperin and comes with possible stomach problems in unrefined form when fed too much.
@49:25 that mixed-age black locust row is awesome. Do you find it spreads aggressively? I imagine animals help moderate it.
I propagated some black locust but am reluctant to plant it on farmland that isn't necessarily mine to steward long term, out of concern and hearing from others how it could get out of control. As far as things to spread out of control, black locust seems like a pretty good thing, with many co-benefits en route to mass reforestation!
I am confused. Aren't black locust leaves poisonous to livestock?
I would like to do something like this with pig, cows and goat's
But with nuts tress in the state if Georgia
where in georgia are you? you could probably use chestnut, since it is among the fastest in growth and nut production. Additionally, it produces good lumber along with being a food source for you and your creatures.
I am in Indonesia, Sulawesi southern province
Redbud and bamboo also need more research.
Redbud is highly palatable to my sheep and goats! But they strip the bark and kill the trees so access has to be managed.
Stopped listening after I heard you talk about climate change
Get to the point, please