downplaying the thing you chose to do is always an interesting choice. "I don't spend all my time memorizing definitions" then...don't make definitions of words you don't have memorized important to your line of debate, caller.
Or how they throw around the fact that they're a veteran as a means to silence the debate, even when said experience doesn't train them in anything STEM related that would bestow any information that could debate on this other than "I saw it once therefore I understand it all" I mean I could make a joke about Marines and the term Jar Head or eating crayons but he kind of does the leg work for me.
How are boys/men or girls/women "supposed” to think or feel, want to dress like or act? You must be able to provide specific standards for each sex for what you are contending to make any sense whatsoever. If there is no correct way of being a man or a woman, then how can there be a "mismatch" between what they are and how they feel? This is fundamental to the entire issue, yet no one seems capable of answering it. Why is that?
How are boys/men or girls/women "supposed” to think or feel, want to dress like or act? You must be able to provide specific standards for each sex for what you are contending to make any sense whatsoever. If there is no correct way of being a man or a woman, then how can there be a "mismatch" between what they are and how they feel? This is fundamental to the entire issue, yet no one seems capable of answering it. Why is that?
Translation: "I did something super selfless and was a big bad brave G.I. Joe guy therefore I fought for your rights, now shut up and respect my unearned knowledge on this or else.."
Nah you hear it all the time from right wing conservatives who have served or know anything adjacent to serving, even if they don't know what they're talking about when it comes to gender in our society. It's literally just misogyny but with the military involved. I'm willing to believe them when they say that they support what I assume to be cis women. You gotta understand that a lot of people don't even get to see trans women even in a rare setting and are not used to being exposed to new ideas. How do I know this? When they brought up the topic of biology and uttered that term. It's elementary and very basic stuff but it doesn't explain gender and how are views are social constructs.
@@Ruby_Evethey aren’t even that great in a fight. I used to pretend marines were elite fighters but they are hilariously terrible at literally everything but jerking themselves off and selling a delusion of superiority. Every time I had to do any joint operations with marines, they were a mess of incompetence and ego who spent their entire time whining about how much better they were than everyone else.
For someone to establish a necessary condition to be a woman, only to give exception to outlier cases while not including trans people within the exception, then that means they're intentionally gatekeeping trans people from their outlier exceptions.
@henrysurev6908 Guest said "trans people are real and shouldn't be discriminated against" while discriminating against us in the same breath. Shocking, yet not surprising, cognitive dissonance.
True because he would see what it’s like for women to actually serve in combat as well (in which he’d find they’re just as effective). Instead he keeps talking about boot camp lol and how females have a different center of gravity.
APFT > ACFT The latter physical standard was allowed so women could skirt the establish and proven physical standard and pass for the most lethal fighting forces The US military is now far fatter, weaker, slower and has way too many “soldiers” with less physical and mental endurance as a result. Identity politics victory to undermine the lethality of fighting forces has succeeded Nothing to be proud of Men and women are not equal in all things and never will be Sorry that is somehow confusing for the emotionally compromised leftists who talk big game about fighting and resisting and revolting, but when it comes to actual fighting and dying, fill cemeteries with someone else’s young sons instead because they personally are yellow cowards Now fat guys and girls can walk 2.5 miles instead of run it, and still pass. What clown show accomplishment. Now Leftists all looking at each other all baffled why recruiting numbers are a smoldering crater.
So he said HRT doesn't do much. But i went from 6' 200lbs pre transition at 15 to 5' 9" and 140lbs now 5 years later. I grew natural DDs and my hips are so wide. I wrestled,boxed, & did mma my entire life. so ive worked out the entire time. I cant lift half the weight i use to be able too but my running endurance and leg strength has increased by quite a lot. This is all consistent with the evidence and studies on it. hormones are the single most important thing in physical fitness. HRT penetrates every single system in the body and changes it.
This board screwed with people in the worst ways. Crazy that any of these are controversial, but there are tons of brainlets walking around nowadays. Also, nice my people were mentioned (XXY haver.)
Congrats, caller. You were a Marine, not a doctor, not a biologist, not a scientist of any kind. You were just a professional soldier, your job was to engage in combat. Kindly stay in your lane when evoking your """knowledge""" to cheaply try and win a debate.
Jovan!! How DARE YOU call me out when I throw the word "BIOLOGICAL" out like candy as a catch-all buzz word to try to OWN "trans ideology" How dare you try to hold me to an ACTUAL definition of the word! Let me do my Conservative thing, "Trans women are men because, uh...uh...BIOLOGY, bruh!"
A lot of this stuff isn't exactly intuitive. It requires work and some verification to acknowledge this (why would anyone trust what a stranger says on the internet?). I say this a latino who grew up extremely conservative and culturally Catholic. The ability to realize that our views and beliefs about gender are all made up requires something deep.
@@memedealermikey there is certainly a TON of feels over reals in a conservative worldview. The multiple layers of contradictions only makes this worse.
Actually it would just require for people to accept the science instead of denying it. Their reasoning is exactly the same as flat earthers, just because something seems obvious to them at first glance they dismiss any amount of reason, science and research that doesn't agree with them (which is almost all) XD
He really just wanted to hear himself talk, and would have only accepted everyone agreeing with him XD And his line of reasoning is exactly the same as flatearthers: "Well, I live in reality, and I see this every day and it seems pretty obvious to me, if you disagree with me you're just brainwashed" XD
I love how he says that women have more injuries in the military then immediately admits that the equipment isn’t made for them. Like yeah, if you run in shoes that aren’t your size you’re gonna have injuries too. He literally disproved his own point
Jovan, I love your show. Keep doing what you do. One thing I would like to critique when it comes to this particular argument is the word "Biological." -------- ETYMOLOGY ONLINE- "pertaining to the science of life," 1840, from biology + -ical. Biological clock, "innate mechanism that regulates cyclic activities of living things," is attested from 1955; not especially of human reproductive urges until c. 1991. Biological warfare is attested from 1946. Related: Biologically. Alternative adjective biologic is from 1850. OXFORD- 1. relating to biology or living organisms. ------------- The reason I bring this up is because the caller does have a close enough partial understanding of the definition but I completely agree that the way it is being used is incorrect. When he says "dealing with nature" this could be a logical layman interpretation or wording of the definition "pertaining to the science of life." Jovan, you say "no, biological just means its a living organism." According to the Oxford definition "relating to biology OR living organisms." And Biology means (Oxford) ------the study of living organisms, divided into many specialized fields that cover their morphology, physiology, anatomy, behavior, origin, and distribution.----- So I would say that you had a partial definition. I think that when it comes to the general population, those who do not engage in the further examination of these topics, when they say "biological woman," what they are saying is "female characteristics." However, that is where my defense stops. All I am saying is that when engaging in these kinds of debates, that we need to take care to not miss represent the full definition. Because when this man goes to look up the definition later, he is going to think that you were wrong. You were not, just not thorough enough. Its really tough to put what I am trying to say in this small space. So I know there is much more I would like to elaborate on and there will be people who chose to read into what I am saying as me defending this man, but I assure you, I am NOT!
In order for someone to be accepted as a US Marine, is it necessary for them to have graduated from US Marine Corps boot camp? There can be no exceptions. Maybe they would have understood it framed that way, though I doubt it.
10:00 I have a big issue with this argument. "What makes a duck a duck is if it has duck DNA". While that's probably the most definite way to identify a creature, it's inefficient and invasive, so it's not how we generally identify things. We identify things based on comparing the visible qualities of the thing against our notions of things that are the most similar. Additionally, saying "It's a duck because it has duck DNA" leans way too close to the argument of "They're not a woman because they have a penis", because people generally don't identify gender by invasively checking stranger's genitals.
The weak always pretend they know how common or uncommon something is (out of their own imagination btw) and that this magically means they self contradictions don’t matter.
Is it just me or does this guy just sound like he’s drooling with his eyes half shut the entire time. He just talks and talks and talks…. Like buddy, think the thoughts in your head before trying to rationalize them out loud
You just gotta let them cook. It took me time to get this stuff but when I did, my mind was blown and was instantly immersed into something I had no idea existed in the first place.
Wish this yt would be more respectful, the guest was so close to getting it, and if they were more respectful maybe he would have gotten it and maybe be more educated
i really like what you stand for but i feel like sometimes you and the people in call go off in such a disrespectful manner. the guest, while i don't agree with them at all, seemed to be fairly respectful and willing to listen, maybe even be educated. he was then immediately met with all sorts of being talked down to like "buddy friendo big man" and had the case study title read to him like he was a toddler, but even worse with wrong pronunciations on purpose. why? i get it sometimes if they deserve it, but it feels like the purpose was to agitate this guest until they crashout so chat can go OOOOOOH THE CRASHOUT. instead of trying to educate you probably made them double down and hate the other side more...
dude literally would not shut up, condescension absolutely warranted. it's not about aiming for the crashout, that guy was not open to being educated. he deflected several times. and in no way does this conversation make meathead double down, he can't he's rock bottom.
@@combatwomb1 That it is perfectly acceptable to class humans like we do to every other animal. Male and female. There is absolutely no reason to acknowledge gender identity. If you can't respect other people's thoughts, then why should anyone else?
@@frishterWe humans have many things that other animals don’t: religion, nationality, favorite movies, clothing preferences, etc. Even if we were to say that animals don’t have a concept of gender, why would it make sense to say “Therefore, neither should we,”? Also, I don’t think transphobia is the position of “just respecting other people’s thoughts,” any more than any other bigotry.
Amusing how they always call it "word games" when their logic gets shown to be flawed
It is because they are projecting. Especially TERFs.
downplaying the thing you chose to do is always an interesting choice. "I don't spend all my time memorizing definitions"
then...don't make definitions of words you don't have memorized important to your line of debate, caller.
They just get mad lol
Or how they throw around the fact that they're a veteran as a means to silence the debate, even when said experience doesn't train them in anything STEM related that would bestow any information that could debate on this other than "I saw it once therefore I understand it all"
I mean I could make a joke about Marines and the term Jar Head or eating crayons but he kind of does the leg work for me.
How are boys/men or girls/women "supposed” to think or feel, want to dress like or act? You must be able to provide specific standards for each sex for what you are contending to make any sense whatsoever. If there is no correct way of being a man or a woman, then how can there be a "mismatch" between what they are and how they feel?
This is fundamental to the entire issue, yet no one seems capable of answering it. Why is that?
Thank you for advocating for trans rights ❤
Erasing women's rights*
How are boys/men or girls/women "supposed” to think or feel, want to dress like or act? You must be able to provide specific standards for each sex for what you are contending to make any sense whatsoever. If there is no correct way of being a man or a woman, then how can there be a "mismatch" between what they are and how they feel?
This is fundamental to the entire issue, yet no one seems capable of answering it. Why is that?
First caller: "I'm from a military background"
Yeah, and that's all we needed to know about you, and your line of thinking. Thanks for calling.
Material conditions. Is it easier to grow up in a privileged setting? Sure is but at what cost and how is this maintained?
Translation: "I did something super selfless and was a big bad brave G.I. Joe guy therefore I fought for your rights, now shut up and respect my unearned knowledge on this or else.."
@@BleedForTheWorld Bro what?
@@tari8134 hey does acab include service members? Yes or no? Asking
doesn’t thiccolas also have a military bg? shouldn’t be a disqualification
"I'm an expert on gender because I went through marine corps boot camp."
That's a new one.
@@drg8687 i heard that in the Navy as well. Its ridiculous
Nah you hear it all the time from right wing conservatives who have served or know anything adjacent to serving, even if they don't know what they're talking about when it comes to gender in our society. It's literally just misogyny but with the military involved. I'm willing to believe them when they say that they support what I assume to be cis women. You gotta understand that a lot of people don't even get to see trans women even in a rare setting and are not used to being exposed to new ideas. How do I know this? When they brought up the topic of biology and uttered that term. It's elementary and very basic stuff but it doesn't explain gender and how are views are social constructs.
The only thing I'm trusting a marine on is which crayons taste the best
@@Ruby_Evethey aren’t even that great in a fight. I used to pretend marines were elite fighters but they are hilariously terrible at literally everything but jerking themselves off and selling a delusion of superiority. Every time I had to do any joint operations with marines, they were a mess of incompetence and ego who spent their entire time whining about how much better they were than everyone else.
@@Ruby_Eve the marines either make the most anti corpo loving grampa or a background character in Southpark
For someone to establish a necessary condition to be a woman, only to give exception to outlier cases while not including trans people within the exception, then that means they're intentionally gatekeeping trans people from their outlier exceptions.
I mean, obviously. Including them would mean accepting them, and in their world view that would be the end of the world.
@henrysurev6908 Guest said "trans people are real and shouldn't be discriminated against" while discriminating against us in the same breath. Shocking, yet not surprising, cognitive dissonance.
You're not discriminated against just because people want woman to mean woman.
@frishter What?
@frishter whats the necessary condition to be a woman?
As someone who was in the military i can say that this guy is full of it. Women pull their weight just like everyone else
They absolutely do not.
But thanks for the totally not obvious white knight routine
Hope “she” sees this bro
@johannschultz3743 ok incel
@john ok incel
Ok incel
@johannschultz3743 there is no she. I am gay and not biased by bigotry
chatter LarkyStar: "This dude drank the Camp Lejeune water too much" KILLED ME 😭
Needs to get his money for those awful earplugs. Can't hear a single piece of information.
Not to be that guy, but the title should be 'eludes'
Damn, i was about to be "that guy".
Thank you, for being that guy. We appreciate you.
he changed it but didnt credit you, smh......
@@TheGLaDOSvideoCoreIt's possible that this comment isn't the reason he changed it
@@TheGLaDOSvideoCore So it's impossible that he noticed the mistake himself?
Never served in combat, betting now
True because he would see what it’s like for women to actually serve in combat as well (in which he’d find they’re just as effective). Instead he keeps talking about boot camp lol and how females have a different center of gravity.
@@memedealermikey”well a week before i was cleaning towels and jumpstarting jeeps i was top of my class bc it was mostly girls in there” 😂😂
@@memedealermikey I know I heard that different center of gravity part and I said yeah so does a 6 foot fall guy and 5 foot tall guy, your point?
APFT > ACFT
The latter physical standard was allowed so women could skirt the establish and proven physical standard and pass for the most lethal fighting forces
The US military is now far fatter, weaker, slower and has way too many “soldiers” with less physical and mental endurance as a result.
Identity politics victory to undermine the lethality of fighting forces has succeeded
Nothing to be proud of
Men and women are not equal in all things and never will be
Sorry that is somehow confusing for the emotionally compromised leftists who talk big game about fighting and resisting and revolting, but when it comes to actual fighting and dying, fill cemeteries with someone else’s young sons instead because they personally are yellow cowards
Now fat guys and girls can walk 2.5 miles instead of run it, and still pass. What clown show accomplishment.
Now Leftists all looking at each other all baffled why recruiting numbers are a smoldering crater.
So he said HRT doesn't do much. But i went from 6' 200lbs pre transition at 15 to 5' 9" and 140lbs now 5 years later. I grew natural DDs and my hips are so wide. I wrestled,boxed, & did mma my entire life. so ive worked out the entire time. I cant lift half the weight i use to be able too but my running endurance and leg strength has increased by quite a lot. This is all consistent with the evidence and studies on it. hormones are the single most important thing in physical fitness. HRT penetrates every single system in the body and changes it.
And to those who gave you a thumbs up for that post, Santa Claus exists and we can make gold bullion from seawater just by adding hormones
Guest 🏃♂️🏃♂️🏃♂️
He's a runner he's a track staaaarrr
that’s such a pretty username
@@silversmith333 ty!
This board screwed with people in the worst ways. Crazy that any of these are controversial, but there are tons of brainlets walking around nowadays.
Also, nice my people were mentioned (XXY haver.)
Run little man. Run from your lack of knowledge on the topic.
Congrats, caller. You were a Marine, not a doctor, not a biologist, not a scientist of any kind. You were just a professional soldier, your job was to engage in combat. Kindly stay in your lane when evoking your """knowledge""" to cheaply try and win a debate.
There's a reason for the acronym "Muscles Are Required, Intelligence Not Essential".
Jovan!! How DARE YOU call me out when I throw the word "BIOLOGICAL" out like candy as a catch-all buzz word to try to OWN "trans ideology" How dare you try to hold me to an ACTUAL definition of the word! Let me do my Conservative thing, "Trans women are men because, uh...uh...BIOLOGY, bruh!"
A lot of this stuff isn't exactly intuitive. It requires work and some verification to acknowledge this (why would anyone trust what a stranger says on the internet?). I say this a latino who grew up extremely conservative and culturally Catholic. The ability to realize that our views and beliefs about gender are all made up requires something deep.
“Facts don’t care about your feelings” until the facts negate THEIR feelings, I find.
@@memedealermikey there is certainly a TON of feels over reals in a conservative worldview. The multiple layers of contradictions only makes this worse.
Actually it would just require for people to accept the science instead of denying it. Their reasoning is exactly the same as flat earthers, just because something seems obvious to them at first glance they dismiss any amount of reason, science and research that doesn't agree with them (which is almost all) XD
He really just wanted to hear himself talk, and would have only accepted everyone agreeing with him XD
And his line of reasoning is exactly the same as flatearthers: "Well, I live in reality, and I see this every day and it seems pretty obvious to me, if you disagree with me you're just brainwashed" XD
I love how he says that women have more injuries in the military then immediately admits that the equipment isn’t made for them.
Like yeah, if you run in shoes that aren’t your size you’re gonna have injuries too. He literally disproved his own point
You're doing the Lord's work, Jovan
ahh the conservative kryptonite, another southern vet guy that **isn’t** divorced bc he doesn’t watch Fox all day 😊
i just found out abt you via a clip on twtr and dude youre awesome
He definitely listens too much to Shapiro, he never makes an argument but can't shut up for 3 seconds
2:45 glad to hear a medical lesson from someone who thinks rocks are biological
Jovan, I love your show. Keep doing what you do. One thing I would like to critique when it comes to this particular argument is the word "Biological." -------- ETYMOLOGY ONLINE- "pertaining to the science of life," 1840, from biology + -ical. Biological clock, "innate mechanism that regulates cyclic activities of living things," is attested from 1955; not especially of human reproductive urges until c. 1991. Biological warfare is attested from 1946. Related: Biologically. Alternative adjective biologic is from 1850. OXFORD- 1.
relating to biology or living organisms. ------------- The reason I bring this up is because the caller does have a close enough partial understanding of the definition but I completely agree that the way it is being used is incorrect. When he says "dealing with nature" this could be a logical layman interpretation or wording of the definition "pertaining to the science of life." Jovan, you say "no, biological just means its a living organism." According to the Oxford definition "relating to biology OR living organisms." And Biology means (Oxford) ------the study of living organisms, divided into many specialized fields that cover their morphology, physiology, anatomy, behavior, origin, and distribution.----- So I would say that you had a partial definition. I think that when it comes to the general population, those who do not engage in the further examination of these topics, when they say "biological woman," what they are saying is "female characteristics." However, that is where my defense stops. All I am saying is that when engaging in these kinds of debates, that we need to take care to not miss represent the full definition. Because when this man goes to look up the definition later, he is going to think that you were wrong. You were not, just not thorough enough. Its really tough to put what I am trying to say in this small space. So I know there is much more I would like to elaborate on and there will be people who chose to read into what I am saying as me defending this man, but I assure you, I am NOT!
Im not sure why parts of my paragraph are lined out. I wonder if that means they are not visible to others. Can someone shine some light on this?
Still early in the vid but does he know that hrt after a while changes bone density(higher risk of osteoporosis) and changes your center of gravity
In order for someone to be accepted as a US Marine, is it necessary for them to have graduated from US Marine Corps boot camp? There can be no exceptions. Maybe they would have understood it framed that way, though I doubt it.
Gotta love when people bring up taxonomy without knowing how it works. It’s created by people, it is flawed. It is a paiiinnn to work in lol
10:00 I have a big issue with this argument. "What makes a duck a duck is if it has duck DNA". While that's probably the most definite way to identify a creature, it's inefficient and invasive, so it's not how we generally identify things. We identify things based on comparing the visible qualities of the thing against our notions of things that are the most similar.
Additionally, saying "It's a duck because it has duck DNA" leans way too close to the argument of "They're not a woman because they have a penis", because people generally don't identify gender by invasively checking stranger's genitals.
The weak always pretend they know how common or uncommon something is (out of their own imagination btw) and that this magically means they self contradictions don’t matter.
How can I debate you?
@@commanderyeti3646 call in to his stream when he's live. The phone number is on the screen when he's streaming
Is it just me or does this guy just sound like he’s drooling with his eyes half shut the entire time. He just talks and talks and talks…. Like buddy, think the thoughts in your head before trying to rationalize them out loud
You just gotta let them cook. It took me time to get this stuff but when I did, my mind was blown and was instantly immersed into something I had no idea existed in the first place.
@@BleedForTheWorld Bro what?
@@emdivine the idea that trans people as a gender exists and they're not crossdressing gay men.
Anti Spiral
Wish this yt would be more respectful, the guest was so close to getting it, and if they were more respectful maybe he would have gotten it and maybe be more educated
I think the title should be 'eludes' not 'alludes'
Its changed
GOAT
Keep up the good work, Karl “Jovan” Marx. 👍
Just read the screen. No need to make it unclear
🏃♂️🏃♂️🏃♂️🏃♂️
i really like what you stand for but i feel like sometimes you and the people in call go off in such a disrespectful manner. the guest, while i don't agree with them at all, seemed to be fairly respectful and willing to listen, maybe even be educated. he was then immediately met with all sorts of being talked down to like "buddy friendo big man" and had the case study title read to him like he was a toddler, but even worse with wrong pronunciations on purpose. why? i get it sometimes if they deserve it, but it feels like the purpose was to agitate this guest until they crashout so chat can go OOOOOOH THE CRASHOUT. instead of trying to educate you probably made them double down and hate the other side more...
dude literally would not shut up, condescension absolutely warranted. it's not about aiming for the crashout, that guy was not open to being educated. he deflected several times. and in no way does this conversation make meathead double down, he can't he's rock bottom.
The dude admitted to being a smartass way before the crashout lol.
He couldn’t steam roll like Ben Shapiro, so you crash out
To be fair, Ben Shapiro cannot steam roll people either, unless they are some random freshman college student.
Funny how society isn't able to have the human construct based on biology isn't it?
@@frishter What are you even attempting to say here?
European-Catholic Gender roles aren't natural, sorry.
that sentence doesn't have a meaning... are you sure you thought this through? Perhaps you should try to say it with your own words
@@combatwomb1 That it is perfectly acceptable to class humans like we do to every other animal. Male and female. There is absolutely no reason to acknowledge gender identity. If you can't respect other people's thoughts, then why should anyone else?
@@frishterWe humans have many things that other animals don’t: religion, nationality, favorite movies, clothing preferences, etc. Even if we were to say that animals don’t have a concept of gender, why would it make sense to say “Therefore, neither should we,”?
Also, I don’t think transphobia is the position of “just respecting other people’s thoughts,” any more than any other bigotry.