Ian, if not for you I would probably never have taken interest in the historical rifles of my home country. Thanks for your persistently great presentations over all these years. Vive l'amitié 🇫🇷🇺🇲
Je suis totalement d'accord, il doit bien y avoir un honneur civil ou une médaille adéquate pour Ian qui a tant fait pour faire connaître cette industrie nationale au monde. Les arts et Lettres ou même la légion d'honneur (il y en a qui l'ont eu pour bien moins). Il faudrait en parler ou faire circuler une pétition !
An important factor in adopting a full power rifle cartridge in 1949 was that France still had its North African territories and as the US military found out in Iraq and Afghanistan, range is important in such terrain. So much so that the M14 returned from the dead as the Designated Marksman's Rifle in each infantry squad.
What a missed opportunity for France! Hindsight being 20-20, the 3-cartridge 'problem' ended up being what most nations accepted anyway, and it looks like it wouldn't have been too difficult to adapt the basic design to 5.56 and a bullpup configuration a la FAMAS. It's hard to argue with free weapons though, and France at the time was still pretty strongly committed to NATO, but still.....quelle dommage!
Yes, I know it's complicated, but I'm not criticizing you! I live with 2 Italian girls, and when they talk about someone, I never know if they're talking about a boy or a girl!
This carbine/SMG combo is pretty neat. The ammo issue would have needed sorting out, but otherwise this makes sense from an engineering, production, and soldier perspective. Therefore, it’s only natural that the French wouldn’t adopt it.
I also love how much unnecessary mechanical complication is added in for no good reason. Lots of good ways for dirt and debris to get in the action! It's kind of like the development of aircraft between the World Wars, where you get some truly whacky ideas given development money.
@@ЖигимонтАвгуст Which M2? I freely admit the original M2 Browning .50 caliber machine gun was a finicky beast. I had to watch a training film about headspace and timing and how a mistake there could kill the user. Though I read or heard that the problem had been largely remediated. The M2 Bradley is a great vehicle, if you don't try to employ it as if it were a tank. The M2 artillery compass is a fine device, though for orienteering I prefer the lensatic compass. The M2 is also a highway in South Africa, a highway in Australia, a highway in Russia (a.k.a. the Crimea Highway)... - Sorry, I have free time and a search engine. Not trying to be a jerk to you.
This is such a cool system. It makes for a strong, relatively light, thin compact profile. The commonality between the rifle and submachine gun allows for easy training and possibly some parts interchangability. 9mm & 30 carbine is still OK but today we may use something like 5.56 & 9mm or 300 Blackout & 9mm or 7.62X39mm & 9mm as the 2 calibers
@@Mike_Rogge The FAMAS is unobtainium pretty much everywhere, I've never seen them for sale in the Netherlands nor Germany. I did see them being advertised for sale in some French gun magazines, which makes sense considering that's its birthplace. And if I remember correctly in the video where Ian tests a FAMAS on the range he mentions them being available for sale in Canada as well, perhaps that video even being shot in Canada.
The old tale of unstoppable force vs unmovable object truely never met a more adequate application than the genius of the french small arm designs vs the abysmal incompetence of the french army bureaucracy.
Other Gun Channels : "Here today on the range in my back yard..." Forgotten Weapons : " Here today in the gun room of the Institut de Recherche Criminelle de la Gendarmerie Nationale, Paris. Class.
Watching this video I can just imagine bean counters salivating over the concept of interchangeable parts between their submachine gun and their battle rifles.
A rather underpowered one with highly questionable features, but an assault rifle nonetheless. If thats your basis for an assault rifle though, then the US had an assault rifle in the 1940s with the M2 carbine.
I feel like *disconnecting the magazine* by folding it out of the way is a perfectly acceptable way of rendering a gun safe like this, especially when comboed with a grip safety. Is it the most expedient way? No, probably not, but it would certainly work.
...I recently bought 400 rounds of French surplus 30 carbine from a fellow collector in our club, Palm Beach Arms Collectors, at the time I assumed it was for the M1 Carbine, but had never heard of the French army being given these weapons post war...this solves that mystery and also the question of whether or not the ammo is corrosive...if you want I can provide photos of the boxes...
Nice compact design, would be very iconic if adopted. But there's not much isolation from the heat so the only thing the front hand can hold is the magazine.
I think this development lends credence to the fact the .30 carbine is not a pistol cartridge, and the M2 Carbine was a proto-assault rifle of sorts. A 110gr bullet at 2,000fps is A LOT more powerful and has a lot more range than a 115gr bullet at 1,300fps. This MAS49 carbine further evolves that into a form factor that is familiar for the assault rifle.
You could have ended that sentence after the "odd)" part! Tanks, cars, fashion, cheese and the list could go on. And I am glad for it! They've come up with some fascinating designs over the years.
@@Sven_Dongle «These Frenchmen, under the gallant leadership of general Molinié, had for four critical days contained no less than seven German divisions which otherwise could have joined in the assaults on the Dunkirk perimeter. This was a splendid contribution to the escape of their more fortunate comrades of the British Expeditionnary Force » - Winston Churchill, The Second World War. vol. II. Their Finest Hour.
My thoughts on the sticky barrel removal, I envision a wiggle of that lever (it may be binding), as well as a few taps on the barrel to encourage it out, but of course, rare prototypes.
Why at 2:18 the MAS submachine gun does the stock look like a stolen Daisy's Red Rider BB gun stock? Is it a collaborative effort between MAS and Daisy?
I like how "The French [...] had seen substantial demonstration of the Sturmgewehr" is a real headscratcher for some people :'D An outstanding move, Mr. McCollum.
Very similar to both the FNAB and OG-44 submachine guns, which strangely enough are both Italian designs from _that_ era. Awesome gun though, would love to see the inner workings of that fire control group, really a genius gun all around, how the mag well folds in such a way as to protect the gun from dirt... it's actually kind of fascinating.
Im patiently waiting for .30 carbine to be reborn. Someone needs to make an affordable m1 carbine, and cmmg needs to make a banshee upper and mag adapter.
Have gotta agree with andrewlitalasano here, Ian. I really enjoy a gun guy who can talk about guns and create interesting content without constantly referring to gun control laws. I'm Australian, and I'm not here to listen to someone complain about local legislation.
Between the SMG and StG sharing the same basic operating system and controls, and the appearance of the fore-end and butt stock, you cannot convince me that they weren't working with CETME and what would eventually become HK.
The German engineers that developed what became the G3 did spend some time in France after the war, before heading to Spain and CETME, so it's possible they had some influence...
Ok, im converted to Ian's cult of the French rifle!!! Too cool! It even looks like French industrial aesthetic like "triplets of Belville", delicatessen or "The City of Lost Children" or a old citroen van!
Hi Ian, thanks for this vid! Have you thought of aquiring an endoscopic camera for getting into those really hard to see places? Would it even be worth the effort? Keep up the great work! Greetings from Germany!
I think that "family" of firearms didn't get a full chance. IMHO: It had a lot of potential in this, reducing the logistics of parts, simplicity in manual arms. Of course, "we / USA" were dumping small arms and ammunition to anyone and everyone post WW2. That curtailed most development of small arms. Hindsight of over 50 years has proven that the intermediate firearms is the better choice for most situations. The "free world" stifled progression, especially with us shoving the 7.62x51 across NATO. Think what that round or a necked down 30 carbine to .25 would be now possibly.
...I just bought 400 rounds of surplus French .30 carbine ammo...I had no idea that this forgotten weapon existed....the smmo iscsllnin the original boxes..I kinda figgered it was corrosive..now I know for sure..gonna be SERIOUS fun cleaning my M1 after shooting it..
While they may not share any active development, you can see the influence on the MP5 and MPL just in basic geometry and controls. Maybe the French, Spanish, and Germans were peeking at each other's homework.
MPL and MP5 are completely different. Internally - no similarity except a caliber. Externally - well, submachine guns all look pretty alike, especially the modern ones. You get a boxy receiver with some rails, a pistol grip and magazine. Not many design features to set them all apart. Just look and compare lets say Stribog, APC9, MDP-9 or even UMP-9. Not very different in form and size.
While in a perfect world you would have ONE cartridge for everything, we can all agree that you can't operate on a single cartridge. BUT, i want to disagree with "what you need is a pistol and a rifle" cartridge. What you NEED is a heavy rifle cartridge for machine guns, DMRs and long range rifles. Then you NEED a smaller rifle caliber that works for light rifles/carbines, sub machine guns and pistols. Something like the five-seven. But, if you really want a lighter cartridge for pistols and SMG's then the three NATO standard cartridges will have to do. 9 mm parabellum, 5.56 and 7.62. You could go without the 9mm but you CAN'T go without the 7.62 because when your enemy outranges you, you run into real issues as proven in the mountains of Afghanistan.
Did they build any prototypes of this design in 7.62 NATO? It would also be interesing to know when did the French first start making rifle prototypes in 7.62 NATO. It seems the French took a little longer compared to other NATO countries as they finalized their 7.62 prototype the MAS Type 62 much later than for example the Belgians with the FN FAL.
There were experiments to convert the MAS 49-56 to 7.62 NATO, but they weren't very successful - Ian of course has a video on the subject: ruclips.net/video/e8FRzvI9GWo/видео.html. Since that didn't work out, the French military was more or less stuck with the 7.5 cartridge until it started replacing its main rifle. When that finally happened (by switching to a 5.56 assault rifle), the AA52 machine guns and FR-F1 precision rifles, on the other hand, could be converted to 7.62 NATO. But I'd say all that is unrelated with this experimental weapon, which was it seems was never designed for a full power rifle cartridge anyway.
@@JeffHenry-cq3is that's what happened for standard infantry rifles, yes. The MAS 49-56 chambered in 7.5 French remained the standard until the adoption of the FAMAS in 5.56 (and the FN Minimi in 5.56 was also adopted at some point as a squad automatic weapon). But there was still a need for a full power cartridge for other uses, so there was also a transition to 7.62 for those other types of weapons.
By the end of WW2, the 9mm SMG was obsolescent, at best, as a combat weapon. A carbine in cal. 30 carbine would have been a far superior piece to a 9mm SMG. Even with a barrel shortened to around 12 inches, the carbine round still provides musch better performance than the 9mm cartridge. The French (and other European countries) should have adopted a 30 carbine "SMG" and the 9mm Para round should have been relegated to use in pistols and possibly very compact PDW type SMG's. This would mean the standard infantry would have been armed with semi-auto battle rifles, sniper rifles and LMG's in a full-power rifle cartridge, like the 7,62 NATO, while officers, NCO's, paratroopers, etc., would have been armed with 30 carbine weapons.
The French sure did seem to love the idea of a folding magazine well.
Don't forget the grip safety too lol.
@@John-mf6ky Yes... easier to overlook that one though
yeah, it is a nifty idea however.
And they folded pretty quick after D-Day as well.
@@Film21Productions What the hell is that even supposed to mean?
Ian, if not for you I would probably never have taken interest in the historical rifles of my home country. Thanks for your persistently great presentations over all these years. Vive l'amitié 🇫🇷🇺🇲
Same thing for me, wouldn't have been interested and learned so much about all our old wacky rifles and various firearms if not for this channel
@@pegzounet That would be excellent for Ian to be nominated for the Ordre des Arts et des Lettres.
@@pegzounet Arts et Lettres pour Ian serait absolument justifié et y'en a qui ont eu la Légion d'honneur pour bien moins également...
Complètement d’accord !
Je suis totalement d'accord, il doit bien y avoir un honneur civil ou une médaille adéquate pour Ian qui a tant fait pour faire connaître cette industrie nationale au monde. Les arts et Lettres ou même la légion d'honneur (il y en a qui l'ont eu pour bien moins). Il faudrait en parler ou faire circuler une pétition !
.30 Carbine firearms development after the war has always fascinated me. It's a historical dead end but it's so full of cool and weird ideas.
At the end, M2 carbine was the best of the bunch anyways.
John Wick: "Guns. Lots of guns."
Juan Wick: "Mas carbines."
Jean...
@@Deathunter761 Mêche...
An important factor in adopting a full power rifle cartridge in 1949 was that France still had its North African territories and as the US military found out in Iraq and Afghanistan, range is important in such terrain. So much so that the M14 returned from the dead as the Designated Marksman's Rifle in each infantry squad.
There has to be some irony there. I mean in that powers with an empire had to use older gun technology to try and subdue the natives.
The colonies always got the newer stuff way after mainland anyway.
What a missed opportunity for France! Hindsight being 20-20, the 3-cartridge 'problem' ended up being what most nations accepted anyway, and it looks like it wouldn't have been too difficult to adapt the basic design to 5.56 and a bullpup configuration a la FAMAS. It's hard to argue with free weapons though, and France at the time was still pretty strongly committed to NATO, but still.....quelle dommage!
"Quel dommage" ;)
@@Bobby_Snoof Got me, I can speak & read it fine, but gender & conjugations always trip me up writing!
Quel…
Yes, I know it's complicated, but I'm not criticizing you! I live with 2 Italian girls, and when they talk about someone, I never know if they're talking about a boy or a girl!
@@Bobby_Snoof don't worry you good
This carbine/SMG combo is pretty neat. The ammo issue would have needed sorting out, but otherwise this makes sense from an engineering, production, and soldier perspective. Therefore, it’s only natural that the French wouldn’t adopt it.
I also love how much unnecessary mechanical complication is added in for no good reason. Lots of good ways for dirt and debris to get in the action!
It's kind of like the development of aircraft between the World Wars, where you get some truly whacky ideas given development money.
@@MonkeyJedi99гораздо проще и надёжнее М2.
@@ЖигимонтАвгуст Which M2?
I freely admit the original M2 Browning .50 caliber machine gun was a finicky beast.
I had to watch a training film about headspace and timing and how a mistake there could kill the user. Though I read or heard that the problem had been largely remediated.
The M2 Bradley is a great vehicle, if you don't try to employ it as if it were a tank.
The M2 artillery compass is a fine device, though for orienteering I prefer the lensatic compass.
The M2 is also a highway in South Africa, a highway in Australia, a highway in Russia (a.k.a. the Crimea Highway)...
-
Sorry, I have free time and a search engine. Not trying to be a jerk to you.
@@MonkeyJedi99 the US army challenge to not create any original names over the span of a century (astounding success )
@@AlbinospenguinTriumph of the Bureaucracy!
I love the red rider machine carbine look.
They really can't resist putting folding magazines on everything.
*Magazine wells. Also grip safeties.
Ça prend moins de place. ^^
@@Hosenfuhrer I will now develop a folding magazine just to spite your correction.
Fr as if there target audience are partizan
@@DPRK_Best_Korea Thats a very French attitude!
Le MAS-48 était sincèrement, et en toute subjectivité, un pistolet mitrailleur magnifique
Thanks for being a drama free, highly informative gun guy Ian. Keep up the awesome content
Mostly drama-free, anyways. The Internet isn't that kind to anyone.
@@Tunkkisbut ian makes an effort to be drama free regardless
I'm always going to watch Ian talk about cool, strange prototypes. Great video!
That looks like something a video game designer would come up with to avoid paying licensing fees for an MP5.
French military: give us a weapon with a folding magazine
Mas: just one weapon right?
French military: ...
Mas: *Just one weapon right!*
This is such a cool system. It makes for a strong, relatively light, thin compact profile. The commonality between the rifle and submachine gun allows for easy training and possibly some parts interchangability. 9mm & 30 carbine is still OK but today we may use something like 5.56 & 9mm or 300 Blackout & 9mm or 7.62X39mm & 9mm as the 2 calibers
Sacre bleu fricking early gang
I've never been this early before, wow.
Les plus tôt 🇬🇧👍🇫🇷
Merde
2 hours late
Damn why didn't y'all wake me up
That's the coolest thing I've seen in a long time
This is pretty interesting, honestly. I like how simple it is. I'd love to see a modern reproduction of this system
Lever-delay could make inroads into the civilian market.
the FAMAS works in a near-identical way, albeit bullpup and nearly unobtanium in the U.S.
@@Mike_RoggeBut there is the Croatian cousin, the VHS as the S&W Helion….
@@evanmorris1178they’re short stroke rotating bolt though, not great if you’re a big fan of delayed blowback
@@Mike_Rogge The FAMAS is unobtainium pretty much everywhere, I've never seen them for sale in the Netherlands nor Germany. I did see them being advertised for sale in some French gun magazines, which makes sense considering that's its birthplace. And if I remember correctly in the video where Ian tests a FAMAS on the range he mentions them being available for sale in Canada as well, perhaps that video even being shot in Canada.
Rifles scaled to 30 carbine are just cool. Imagine if there was a AR15 scaled to 30 carbine. Now that would be cool.
It would be basically identical.
The presence ( or more often the lack of) grip safety is something I've always wondered about in automatic/battle rifles.
I think they were more common on pistols to prevent accidental discharges while holstering.
I think some SMGs used them as a drop safety
Usually it’s just an unnecessary feature that adds cost and complexity, that’s why no one uses it.
If you think the MA49 is confusing, just wait until you hear about the US M1.
Which one? The M1 Combat Car, M1 Carbine, M1 Garand, M1 Half-Track, M1 Abrams, M1 Armored Car, M1 field artillery, M1 Anti-Aircraft Gun,M1 howitzer, M1 Dual-Purpose Gun,M1 Gernade, M1 flamethrower, M1 Bazooka, M1 Mortar, M1 Thompson, M1 Underwater Defense Gun or the M1 Chemical Mine?
@@turtleman_destro504 exactly.
I really hope you got a photo of that cartridge and projectile board in the background, I'd love to see it
Awesome! Always enjoy watching experimental .30 Carbine rifles. Now if we can only locate that rare .30 M1 Smith & Wesson prototype.
Man that MAS 48 Sub gun is beautiful!! They definitely lose some style points on the later models 😂
MAT*
The old tale of unstoppable force vs unmovable object truely never met a more adequate application than the genius of the french small arm designs vs the abysmal incompetence of the french army bureaucracy.
Nice piece. Very interesting. Thanks, as always, for a great presentation !
I'm French and this is the first time I've seen this model. Thank you for this discovery
Et oui, tout le monde n à pas accès au musée de la gendarmerie 😂Thanks Ian for showing us all these prototypes
@@khaelamensha3624 😅👍
@@f4nt4x95 Space invaders.. Toute ma jeunesse 😍
Other Gun Channels : "Here today on the range in my back yard..." Forgotten Weapons : " Here today in the gun room of the Institut de Recherche Criminelle de la Gendarmerie Nationale, Paris. Class.
the wooden stock, lifted from Daisy,
Watching this video I can just imagine bean counters salivating over the concept of interchangeable parts between their submachine gun and their battle rifles.
😂 Thanks for the laugh and the accuracy of your remark 😁
There are some really neat ideas in that gun and I’d love to have one Thanks for another great video on something I’d never seen
The MP5's long lost French cousin lol
probably hung out inside a wine barrel to mature before Ian found it
@@stevejohnson6593yep still a bit ripe but with a few years more, it would be great 😂
A true Fiorgotten Weapon! Awesome! Thanks!
Mon dieu, another interesting French firearm, merci monsieur Ian.
Coolest gun I've seen in a Long time!!
The French had an assault rifle in 1949. Wow.
A rather underpowered one with highly questionable features, but an assault rifle nonetheless.
If thats your basis for an assault rifle though, then the US had an assault rifle in the 1940s with the M2 carbine.
M43 entered the chat
I wouldn't consider .30 carbine to be an intermediate cartridge so this can't be an assault rifle.
@@redcat9436 thankfully it doesn't matter what you consider
@@KarsenKeith on a holistic level, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks
Always great to see FW video about an unusual gun 👍👍
Nice bit of history. Thank you to Ian et al and the Gendarmerie Museum.
1949 was an interesting year for French gun development.
The country was starting to really recover from ww2 (food card stopped in 1949) and Indochina war was in full scale mode or close to it,.
I can just feel the giddiness in Ian when he realized he's going to get hands on a prototype French gun
I feel like *disconnecting the magazine* by folding it out of the way is a perfectly acceptable way of rendering a gun safe like this, especially when comboed with a grip safety.
Is it the most expedient way? No, probably not, but it would certainly work.
...I recently bought 400 rounds of French surplus 30 carbine from a fellow collector in our club, Palm Beach Arms Collectors, at the time I assumed it was for the M1 Carbine, but had never heard of the French army being given these weapons post war...this solves that mystery and also the question of whether or not the ammo is corrosive...if you want I can provide photos of the boxes...
It probably was for the M1, the gendarmes used to use them (eventually replacing them with mini-14s).
The French, especially the Gendarmerie, made extensive use of M1 Carbines until the 1980s.
.Thank you, my friend..is the ammo corrosive - as I suspect???@@JohnHughesChampigny
@@mohammedcohen -- that I wouldn't know. I just saw them hanging out in the streets with the carbines, never asked them about the ammo :)
its very neat to see them scaled up to a rifle since i really liked the smg model
Upon seeing these firearms, truly one of those 'That ought to be interesting to learn about' videos!
Definitely enjoyable. Very practical weapons.
Looks nice
Nice compact design, would be very iconic if adopted. But there's not much isolation from the heat so the only thing the front hand can hold is the magazine.
A front handguard is definitely needed...
Another great video, keep up the good work
Good sound. I'd love to see a folding mag(well) on something new.
When it comes to guns, and why they are so fascinating, there is nobody as cool as you!
Love how no matter what firearm you’re tinkering with, they all have that distinct “snap” when you start pushing buttons
Oh god this is so cool
I think this development lends credence to the fact the .30 carbine is not a pistol cartridge, and the M2 Carbine was a proto-assault rifle of sorts. A 110gr bullet at 2,000fps is A LOT more powerful and has a lot more range than a 115gr bullet at 1,300fps. This MAS49 carbine further evolves that into a form factor that is familiar for the assault rifle.
Nice video again my friend 🇨🇾👍🏻
Interesting, another great video
That carbine and especially the sub-machinegun look like the bastard children of a Cetme and a Red Ryder. Lol
So is it possible to swap the fire control group from the Assault Rifle to the Sub machine gun vise versa?
No masses are different to accommodate the two types of cartridges
That looks like a really decent idea. What a shame it never got adopted!
lever delayed and folding mags? what else to make it even more french?
The french are rather famous for being quite creative (and odd) on how they make their firearms look and work
You could have ended that sentence after the "odd)" part!
Tanks, cars, fashion, cheese and the list could go on. And I am glad for it! They've come up with some fascinating designs over the years.
You should check out their cars too if you like odd and quirky stuff 😂
@@himaro101 As the saying goes, "The French copies no one, and no one copies the French".
@@Sven_DonglePlease shut up, you're not funny
@@Sven_Dongle «These Frenchmen, under the gallant leadership of general Molinié, had for four critical days contained no less than seven German divisions which otherwise could have joined in the assaults on the Dunkirk perimeter. This was a splendid contribution to the escape of their more fortunate comrades of the British Expeditionnary Force »
- Winston Churchill, The Second World War. vol. II. Their Finest Hour.
Very interesting. Thanks!
Génial !
My thoughts on the sticky barrel removal, I envision a wiggle of that lever (it may be binding), as well as a few taps on the barrel to encourage it out, but of course, rare prototypes.
I think someone needs to CAD this gun, and make civilian semi auto versions, a .30carbine folder would be a great backpack camp gun!
Why at 2:18 the MAS submachine gun does the stock look like a stolen Daisy's Red Rider BB gun stock? Is it a collaborative effort between MAS and Daisy?
It looks almost exactly like my Daisy Red Ryder BB gun I had when I was a kid! LOL.
You bet i did (enjoy it), sir. Thanks for the video!
That barrel must have gotten quite hot, so one could not put your hand forward to hold the rifle up to aim.
It definitely looks like its missing a handguard but it doesnt look like theres anywhere that it would attach
@@CreEpeRneSs125It looks like you'd have to grip it by the magazine. 🤨
I like how "The French [...] had seen substantial demonstration of the Sturmgewehr" is a real headscratcher for some people :'D
An outstanding move, Mr. McCollum.
Very similar to both the FNAB and OG-44 submachine guns, which strangely enough are both Italian designs from _that_ era. Awesome gun though, would love to see the inner workings of that fire control group, really a genius gun all around, how the mag well folds in such a way as to protect the gun from dirt... it's actually kind of fascinating.
How can you not like it with that red ryder stock
"substantial demonstration of the sturmgewehr"
Ich hätte fast mein Bier verschüttet xD
Im patiently waiting for .30 carbine to be reborn. Someone needs to make an affordable m1 carbine, and cmmg needs to make a banshee upper and mag adapter.
Have gotta agree with andrewlitalasano here, Ian. I really enjoy a gun guy who can talk about guns and create interesting content without constantly referring to gun control laws. I'm Australian, and I'm not here to listen to someone complain about local legislation.
Between the SMG and StG sharing the same basic operating system and controls, and the appearance of the fore-end and butt stock, you cannot convince me that they weren't working with CETME and what would eventually become HK.
The German engineers that developed what became the G3 did spend some time in France after the war, before heading to Spain and CETME, so it's possible they had some influence...
I can't get that Red Ryder BB gun stock out of my head. 😅
Ok, im converted to Ian's cult of the French rifle!!! Too cool! It even looks like French industrial aesthetic like "triplets of Belville", delicatessen or "The City of Lost Children" or a old citroen van!
Hi Ian, thanks for this vid! Have you thought of aquiring an endoscopic camera for getting into those really hard to see places? Would it even be worth the effort? Keep up the great work!
Greetings from Germany!
Nice.
I think that "family" of firearms didn't get a full chance. IMHO: It had a lot of potential in this, reducing the logistics of parts, simplicity in manual arms. Of course, "we / USA" were dumping small arms and ammunition to anyone and everyone post WW2. That curtailed most development of small arms. Hindsight of over 50 years has proven that the intermediate firearms is the better choice for most situations. The "free world" stifled progression, especially with us shoving the 7.62x51 across NATO. Think what that round or a necked down 30 carbine to .25 would be now possibly.
note the dual feed ramp on the barrel!
We gotta start a go fund me for Ian to get a wire probe camera to see the internals for firearms like this where it’s hard to get good angles.
Merci.
I really enjoy these French Gov't finds and developmental firearms!
France really likes 7.62 cal.
...I just bought 400 rounds of surplus French .30 carbine ammo...I had no idea that this forgotten weapon existed....the smmo iscsllnin the original boxes..I kinda figgered it was corrosive..now I know for sure..gonna be SERIOUS fun cleaning my M1 after shooting it..
They had to check Ian's pockets before he left 😂
Is it me, or does this look of the wood stock carbine seem like someone from the daisy red ryder factory had a hand in the design?
Impressive!
While they may not share any active development, you can see the influence on the MP5 and MPL just in basic geometry and controls. Maybe the French, Spanish, and Germans were peeking at each other's homework.
Around this time German engineers were working in France and then moved to Spain. I was wondering if they were involved in this development.
There's also a lot of similarities between the appearances of the Armaguerra OG-44 and Franchi LF-57, so you can include the Italians in that mixture.
MPL and MP5 are completely different. Internally - no similarity except a caliber. Externally - well, submachine guns all look pretty alike, especially the modern ones. You get a boxy receiver with some rails, a pistol grip and magazine. Not many design features to set them all apart. Just look and compare lets say Stribog, APC9, MDP-9 or even UMP-9. Not very different in form and size.
It's the skinny MP5!
Ian discovers an experimental French rifle and only spends 13 minutes talking about it? Something's wrong, I can feel it.
While in a perfect world you would have ONE cartridge for everything, we can all agree that you can't operate on a single cartridge.
BUT, i want to disagree with "what you need is a pistol and a rifle" cartridge.
What you NEED is a heavy rifle cartridge for machine guns, DMRs and long range rifles.
Then you NEED a smaller rifle caliber that works for light rifles/carbines, sub machine guns and pistols. Something like the five-seven.
But, if you really want a lighter cartridge for pistols and SMG's then the three NATO standard cartridges will have to do. 9 mm parabellum, 5.56 and 7.62.
You could go without the 9mm but you CAN'T go without the 7.62 because when your enemy outranges you, you run into real issues as proven in the mountains of Afghanistan.
The love child of General Thompson’s submachine gun and it’s Teutonic war bride.
Did they build any prototypes of this design in 7.62 NATO? It would also be interesing to know when did the French first start making rifle prototypes in 7.62 NATO. It seems the French took a little longer compared to other NATO countries as they finalized their 7.62 prototype the MAS Type 62 much later than for example the Belgians with the FN FAL.
There were experiments to convert the MAS 49-56 to 7.62 NATO, but they weren't very successful - Ian of course has a video on the subject: ruclips.net/video/e8FRzvI9GWo/видео.html. Since that didn't work out, the French military was more or less stuck with the 7.5 cartridge until it started replacing its main rifle. When that finally happened (by switching to a 5.56 assault rifle), the AA52 machine guns and FR-F1 precision rifles, on the other hand, could be converted to 7.62 NATO.
But I'd say all that is unrelated with this experimental weapon, which was it seems was never designed for a full power rifle cartridge anyway.
Thought France skipped 7.62 and went to 5.56
@@JeffHenry-cq3is that's what happened for standard infantry rifles, yes. The MAS 49-56 chambered in 7.5 French remained the standard until the adoption of the FAMAS in 5.56 (and the FN Minimi in 5.56 was also adopted at some point as a squad automatic weapon). But there was still a need for a full power cartridge for other uses, so there was also a transition to 7.62 for those other types of weapons.
Honestly these seem like nice light handy rifles.
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By the end of WW2, the 9mm SMG was obsolescent, at best, as a combat weapon. A carbine in cal. 30 carbine would have been a far superior piece to a 9mm SMG. Even with a barrel shortened to around 12 inches, the carbine round still provides musch better performance than the 9mm cartridge. The French (and other European countries) should have adopted a 30 carbine "SMG" and the 9mm Para round should have been relegated to use in pistols and possibly very compact PDW type SMG's. This would mean the standard infantry would have been armed with semi-auto battle rifles, sniper rifles and LMG's in a full-power rifle cartridge, like the 7,62 NATO, while officers, NCO's, paratroopers, etc., would have been armed with 30 carbine weapons.
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